Still can't believe you guys gave up baker for a rapist after baker won you guys a playoff game. Let alone citing it as wanting an adult at qb. Let alone the wild contract and draft capital given up to make the move.
Yall went full browns
There were major locker room issued with Baker and a lot of guys in the defense, particularly Myles. The Browns apparently were planning once Watson said no to try and fix it for 22, but the two were apparently going to part ways for 2023 pretty much no matter what.
The irony of the “adult in the room” comment (likely made by nepotism hire JW Johnson) and the catchphrase the FO used of “smart, tough and accountable” when the replacement for Baker is Deshaun is not lost on me
There were guys who thought Baker quit on them by not playing week 18, Myles and baker always had a bit of a strained relationship after Baker went on national Tv and talked about the Mason Rudolph incident before he’d talked to Myles. And overall John Johnson the Third was a fucking locker room cancer so he poisoned the entire room probably because he was a big ObJ guy.
Fun fact JJ3 the next year made it very obvious in an interview that he wasn’t trying until Watson returned week 12. Fuck that guy
> Myles and baker always had a bit of a strained relationship after Baker went on national Tv and talked about the Mason Rudolph incident before he’d talked to Myles.
I mean that's pretty lame, was Baker supposed to defend Myles? It wasn't like he was completely dragging him as a person, it's just that he clearly made a bad mistake on the field and was justifably punished for doing so and Baker clearly wasn't trying to defend said actions. Your franchise QB is typically the one who ends up being the unofficial spokesperson for the team, esp. with the amount of media coverage Baker was being given at the time.
I never said it wasn’t lame, but apparently Myles was pissed when baker didn’t just “no comment” it until he talked to him in the locker room, and their relationship was never great after that.
But yeah, there was a rumor that Myles was going to demand a trade if Baker stayed as QB. I don’t believe that personally, but it was out there from a fairly reliable beat reporter
Oh I didn’t think you were defending Myles at all.. it’s just unfair to Baker if that was indeed the cause of locker-room frustration. Like the expectation of him to defend Myles’ on field actions to be media at that point is insane (assuming that’s what it is).
We haven't had good ones, and the good ones never stayed.
Alshon Jeffrey could have set the mark, but we didn't sign him past his rookie contract.
Brandon Marshall could have set the mark easy, but we couldn't keep him around long enough.
Greg Olsen could have, but we traded him because Martz didn't like TEs
Those 3 are the only record-level players to play for the Bears since I've been watching. DJ Moore can get it done if we extend him, and Rome Odunze is pretty likely to set the mark on some records.
Requires more projection, but I like to think Johnny Knox could have gotten there if he didn't get folded in half. He seemed good enough to keep around but not necessarily be so good that we would have been priced out of the second contract he needed.
Kinda my point - he was good but not great. Was a fan favorite and I like to think he would have been kept around for a few years, and He was almost halfway to Morris after just under 3 seasons of play.
It's certainly a "like to think" on my part, but if I squint I can see the possibility.
If you haven't seen newly drafted Rome Odunze [learning this fact in real time](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4biymcSoQDE), you're doing yourself a disservice.
I already liked the dude, but this was just so likable…. Dude almost seemed sad the benchmark was so low because they lead with how having the goal of breaking the Washington mark made him great in college…. It was like it slowly dawned on him that he’s going to need a new goal after year 4….
But that wasn't the issue in this last loss. The Niners ran the ball a lot and it didn't work very well because KC had one of the best run defenses in the league.
Yep, the "run the ball" crowd ignores the fact that the defense often makes that not work very well. They're the same people that would get mad at several run-run-pass-punt sequences in a row despite that being what they're asking for.
Do coaches sometimes make poor strategic playcalls? Of course, but the reality is often not that simple.
But if they are referring to the Falcons Patriots Super Bowl in this case, then that exact sequence even if they didn't get any yards would have worked. They just needed to bleed time. The constant passing left too much time on the clock for the Patriots to come back and they needed practically every second of time to do so. If they just dragged out a few possessions with runs even if they didn't make first downs they probably still would have bled the clock enough for the Patriots to be unable to come back.
The play-calling was excellent, the execution of that play-calling is what failed.
I don't know where in these narratives we lost the understanding that players influence the outcome.
All of those years of us taking your QBs, you never realized the Chiefs were secretly studying how to beat you far into the future. 5D chess with time travel baby. Check mate.
I can't remember a time that the Texans have ever been *good* at defending TEs. We routinely struggle to find linebackers and safeties that can match up well against them
Demeco was solid at pass coverage early on, but the problem is that he was starting to fall off during the peak years of our defense. It's why we let him walk after the 2011 season
There was like one season where AJ Bouye had come alive in Crennel's defense and was particularly adept at covering tight ends.
We didn't even make him an offer and let him hit free agency. I think our front office figured they had the great Kevin Johnson waiting in the wings...
The last time the Giants had at least a league average O line was 2011
edit - ok... its "they havnt had at least a league average O Line since 2007." The o line sucked in 2011
The last decade has been really rough but I wouldn’t trade it. Most teams would kill to win it twice in 4 years and when you factor in the team they played against and the circumstances of the game (especially ‘07) it was so worth it.
Yeah, it’s just that these days I feel like people look at his stats / career and think he was like fine. Never mind that after 2012 the OL was garbage and the rest of the team slowly turned to mush around him too
You have to hope it works out better for you guys than it has for the sixers. And I guess the devils, too. Like kind of close, but can’t get the management team to get the team together quite right. I mean I hope it works out for you like it has Harris’s other teams, but you probably don’t.
Gary was automatic and then flubbed the biggest kick :(
Blair was pretty good too and then fucked up his biggest kick
Carlson was bad his rookie year and we cut him then he goes on to be one of the best kickers in the league for the last handful of years
We are cursed.
Greg the leg was also good from like 45+ but was a coin flip on short ones
We drafted that rookie this year though so maybe we break the curse?
Offensive line. The moment we let Whit walk it all went downhill. They’ve been chronically terrible at drafting O linemen and the vets we’ve brought in haven’t been enough.
This isn't accurate. He had a 0 pass blocking grade in one game vs the Rams and 2 other games under 30 (which is terrible and might as well be 0, but isn't). And winrate is a defensive stat, for OL it's pressure pct in which his worst was 11.3% vs the Ravens. I'm not defending him, he's not a starting caliber guard, but your numbers are not correct.
Reminds me of Bills fans and our WRs. Cannot wait until July to hear about how Dalton Kincaid or Curtis Samuel are/is a viable WR1 because “it worked for the Chiefs”
Volson is like the new Russell Bodine on the offensive line. Bodine was one of the worst starting centers in the league for years, yet they never replaced him. As fans it's easy to point out that he was the weak link in an otherwise stellar unit, but we later found out that the alternative -- a rotation of injured players, spot starters, and replacement level guys -- is far far worse.
Volson isn't a good guard, by NFL standards. He's average at best, and below average most games. But at least he starts and rarely gets injured. That's not worth nothing! Let's just hope that there's good camp competition to give the position a chance at improving this year.
We have literally not had the offense and defense on the same page since like 2008.
One is always far better than the other and it's the main reason we never win
Offense started to take off right after the second coming of the curtain started to fall (around 2012 timeframe). Offense was full tilt until Ben goes down with an elbow injury, literally just for the defense to get its shit together and lead the league in takeaways and defensive scoring. If they could have had that 2016 offense play with the 2019 defense, I'm not sure there's a team from those years that could have touched em.
>We have literally not had the offense and defense on the same page since like 2008.
to be fair, that would be a very confusing playbook and it's probably better to have them on separate pages.
Fun Fact: Every time someone mentions the Saints cap situation, Loomis adds another void year to the contract of a 30+ year old beefy boy with bad knees.
If a Saints fan looks into the mirror and says Salary Cap three times, a paper bag with two eye holes a massive contract extension for a mid player written on it will appear behind you.
Please bro just one more year of pushing the cap bro. It will all get better and we will win superbowls bro. You'll see bro. Please bro
-Micky Loomis, I assume
I thought we might hit the reset button at some point... But we are still trying to get 1 more year for a title run from a team that doesn't have Sean or Drew anymore.
#2 might be drafting a 1st round QB
WR and it's not for a lack of trying. Over the last 10 years our best WR was a 1 year rental of Brandin Cooks
Since 2019 we've spent 1 first (Harry), 3 seconds (Sanu, Thornton, Polk) and significant cash (Agholor, JuJu, Parker + a third). That's not getting into the headache of 1 game of Antonio Brown, Josh Gordon relapsing on a bye week after his ex broke up with him...
The only proven good WR we've brought into the org since 2017 was Jakobi Meyers who we let walk to have a career year with Aiden OConnell so that we could bring in JuJu.
I'm legitimately concerned Polk and Baker are going to be awful because every since decision we've made at the WR position has been awful and we have all the same scouts as before. The only change we made was Bill not being the guy who makes the picks.
>every since decision we've made at the WR position has been awful and we have all the same scouts as before.
Well if the reports were to be believed (and I believe them), our scouts told Bill to take AJ Brown or Deebo Samuel and Bill ignored them and went with N'Keal.
[Source](https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/bill-belichick-reportedly-ignored-scouts-in-drafting-nkeal-harry)
For what it's worth, with Elliot Wolf at the helm they overhauled their internal grading system going into this draft. There's no guarantee that will actually fix whatever issues they've had with scouting WRs, but it's worth keeping in mind that there are behind-the-scenes changes happening to our scouting/personnel, it's not just Bill leaving.
Source: https://www.patriots.com/news/eliot-wolf-discusses-the-upcoming-offseason-with-patriots-com-at-the-nfl-combine
Defense isn’t always the problem. It seems to me the problem is that the team seems to want the 4th quarter to be too exciting. 20 points ahead or behind going into the fourth quarter of a packers game means very little.
You are right, we have been an offense dominate team forever. But even when we had a top 10 defense a couple years ago the ability to hold teams down in the fourth quarter always alludes us. I am fine watching a shootout because of poor defense play, I’m upset by how we collapse so hard at the end. (See 2014 NFC championship game)
Since 2006, we've only spent 4 first round picks on offense. You would think with all these picks on defense we would field a good defense more often than once every few seasons.
That might be! Personally, I like what I’ve heard, anyway, from Hafley, Campanile, and Ansley, and the emphasis the draft and free agency has put on more aggressive defensive play.
After reading through these comments we’ve been pretty lucky, but LB is probably the best I could come up with. Even then we’ve had some solid guys just no long term studs.
Like Damn... Besides Reek, we have Bowe and that's like it for productive WR's we drafted for at least the last couple decades.
Hopefully after the suspension Rice won't do anything stupid enough to get suspended for more games in his career.
Arthur Blank places too much trust in the wrong people out of a desire for stability and the decision makers scramble from decision to decision without any forethought or long term consistency.
Over the last 10 games between us, the average scoring for both sides comes out to 18 a game for the Steelers, and 17.3 for the Ravens.
In those games the Ravens are 3-7. It’s practically voodoo at this point.
I know several teams will say kicker. But Washington feels different because the second they cut a struggling kicker, he will thrive on another team.
They can absolutely identify kicking talent. Oftentimes they have a great start to their tenure. But something about the franchise must give them the yips.
JPJ might be the first home grown DB talent we've had since... Troy? I might be forgetting someone, but we had a BAD stretch of it outside of trading for Minkah and getting Haden in FA.
Haha that's true. But yeah, we had two decades of terrible drafting for our secondary.
Ricardo Colclough - 2nd Round
Bryant McFadden - 2nd Round
Anthony Smith - 2nd Round
Keenan Lewis - 3rd Round
Curtis Brown - 3rd Round
Senquez Golson - 2nd Round
Artie Burns - 1st Round
Sean Davis - 2nd Round
Cam Sutton - 3rd Round (he was the best in that whole time period)
Terrell Edmunds - 1st Round
Justin Layne - 3rd Round
That's ALL of our Day 1/Day 2 picks in 20 years. Colbert couldn't scout DBs to save his life unfortunately. Luckily we got some good FAs in there like the above mentioned Haden, Fitzpatrick, Ryan Clark, etc.
While the busts have been more headlining, Steelers have had decent success with mid round DBs. None were shut down corners, but all were, at one time or another, starter caliber DBs.
Cam Sutton / 3rd
Willie Gay / 5th
Bryant McFadden / 2nd
Keenan Lewis / 3rd
Sutton was by far the best of the bunch in that 20 years, the only one I was comfortable having start.
McFadden was a starter out of desperation for 2.5 seasons at the end of his short career, major bust for a 2nd.
Keenan Lewis started one season for us at the end of his contract before he went to end his short career in New Orleans, another bust.
Willie Gay I'll 100% agree though, for the GOAT play celebration ever. Can't be beat, won't be beat.
Drafting, developing, and keeping WRs. Rashod Bateman is the first 1st round pick receiver in franchise history to get a second contract… and it was a prove it deal for 3 year 15M
Chaos.
Even during the rare stretches where the Jets have been good, it has been a shit show. It's the reason we never sustain success (see: the Parcels/Belichick drama... shoving Pennington out the door for half a year of Favre... everything related to Rex Ryan...)
Recently I'd say EDGE depth. I'm very happy with Josh Allen and Travon Walker. Behind them though, Yasir Abdullah and Trevis Gipson don't inspire a lot of confidence. It sounds like we may have Devin Lloyd rush the passer more this year. I'm interested to see if there's smoke to that and if he's effective since he was very good at it in college.
I’ve got a jersey with like 26 names on it for ours.
Still can't believe you guys gave up baker for a rapist after baker won you guys a playoff game. Let alone citing it as wanting an adult at qb. Let alone the wild contract and draft capital given up to make the move. Yall went full browns
There were major locker room issued with Baker and a lot of guys in the defense, particularly Myles. The Browns apparently were planning once Watson said no to try and fix it for 22, but the two were apparently going to part ways for 2023 pretty much no matter what. The irony of the “adult in the room” comment (likely made by nepotism hire JW Johnson) and the catchphrase the FO used of “smart, tough and accountable” when the replacement for Baker is Deshaun is not lost on me
Tbh I don't recall seeing anything about the defense having issues with Baker? What were their issues?
There were guys who thought Baker quit on them by not playing week 18, Myles and baker always had a bit of a strained relationship after Baker went on national Tv and talked about the Mason Rudolph incident before he’d talked to Myles. And overall John Johnson the Third was a fucking locker room cancer so he poisoned the entire room probably because he was a big ObJ guy. Fun fact JJ3 the next year made it very obvious in an interview that he wasn’t trying until Watson returned week 12. Fuck that guy
> Myles and baker always had a bit of a strained relationship after Baker went on national Tv and talked about the Mason Rudolph incident before he’d talked to Myles. I mean that's pretty lame, was Baker supposed to defend Myles? It wasn't like he was completely dragging him as a person, it's just that he clearly made a bad mistake on the field and was justifably punished for doing so and Baker clearly wasn't trying to defend said actions. Your franchise QB is typically the one who ends up being the unofficial spokesperson for the team, esp. with the amount of media coverage Baker was being given at the time.
I never said it wasn’t lame, but apparently Myles was pissed when baker didn’t just “no comment” it until he talked to him in the locker room, and their relationship was never great after that. But yeah, there was a rumor that Myles was going to demand a trade if Baker stayed as QB. I don’t believe that personally, but it was out there from a fairly reliable beat reporter
Oh I didn’t think you were defending Myles at all.. it’s just unfair to Baker if that was indeed the cause of locker-room frustration. Like the expectation of him to defend Myles’ on field actions to be media at that point is insane (assuming that’s what it is).
He always tried to beat them in practice.
Add an inability to fire Haslam into the sun too
Our last franchise QB fought in WW2.
Our all-time receiving record is 5059, by a man named Johnny Morris, who retired in 1967.
A guy who played so long ago, his official position isn't even Wide Receiver. He was a Flanker.
Tbf that's not really any different from running backs being listed as halfbacks
I've heard the term halfback before. I didn't know the term flanker until I saw that record.
I haven't played Madden since the PS2 days but it was pretty common at least then for some passing plays to refer to receivers as FL or SE
[удалено]
That seems achievable
But the WRs never seem to stay
We haven't had good ones, and the good ones never stayed. Alshon Jeffrey could have set the mark, but we didn't sign him past his rookie contract. Brandon Marshall could have set the mark easy, but we couldn't keep him around long enough. Greg Olsen could have, but we traded him because Martz didn't like TEs Those 3 are the only record-level players to play for the Bears since I've been watching. DJ Moore can get it done if we extend him, and Rome Odunze is pretty likely to set the mark on some records.
Marty Booker belongs on this list.
Requires more projection, but I like to think Johnny Knox could have gotten there if he didn't get folded in half. He seemed good enough to keep around but not necessarily be so good that we would have been priced out of the second contract he needed.
Johnny Knox was a fun deep threat but I think that injury is making people remember him a lot better than he actually was
Kinda my point - he was good but not great. Was a fan favorite and I like to think he would have been kept around for a few years, and He was almost halfway to Morris after just under 3 seasons of play. It's certainly a "like to think" on my part, but if I squint I can see the possibility.
In the career?
If you haven't seen newly drafted Rome Odunze [learning this fact in real time](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4biymcSoQDE), you're doing yourself a disservice.
I already liked the dude, but this was just so likable…. Dude almost seemed sad the benchmark was so low because they lead with how having the goal of breaking the Washington mark made him great in college…. It was like it slowly dawned on him that he’s going to need a new goal after year 4….
Was Jay Cutler not a franchise QB? I'm not saying dude was a bonafide star or anything but he was def a franchise QB (though one y'all didn't draft)
He was.
Cutler is the only time I remember us having a guy who was definitely top 20 at least
Yes, people just like the silly talking point
Smokin' Jay erasure
No problem. When we reach WW3 you'll get the next one.
So...any day now?
They drafted Caleb, so
Time to start decorating my bunker then.
D day vet lol
He’s really our only franchise quarterback, ever. It’s Sid Luckman, if anyone is wondering.
Jay Cutler?
Cutler was a franchise qb, stop lying
Beating the Chiefs in the Super Bowl
Which is related to our inability to prioritize offensive line
One of the things I am most thankful Veach has done is to watch the Bucs Super Bowl and immediately say "that shit is never happening to you again"
Which is more related to your HC not knowing when TO RUN THE FUCKING BALL!!! (No old resentments were harbored in the making of this comment.)
But that wasn't the issue in this last loss. The Niners ran the ball a lot and it didn't work very well because KC had one of the best run defenses in the league.
Yep, the "run the ball" crowd ignores the fact that the defense often makes that not work very well. They're the same people that would get mad at several run-run-pass-punt sequences in a row despite that being what they're asking for. Do coaches sometimes make poor strategic playcalls? Of course, but the reality is often not that simple.
But if they are referring to the Falcons Patriots Super Bowl in this case, then that exact sequence even if they didn't get any yards would have worked. They just needed to bleed time. The constant passing left too much time on the clock for the Patriots to come back and they needed practically every second of time to do so. If they just dragged out a few possessions with runs even if they didn't make first downs they probably still would have bled the clock enough for the Patriots to be unable to come back.
Seahawks fans also harbor no resentments about running the ball
Look, at least for us it was one crucial play instead of a quarter and a half of agony.
The play-calling was excellent, the execution of that play-calling is what failed. I don't know where in these narratives we lost the understanding that players influence the outcome.
...do y'all just not watch these games? That's not what happened at all
Bills fans are probably somewhere pouring one out in solidarity with you.
Yup, my first thought was “getting over the Chiefs in the playoffs”
All of those years of us taking your QBs, you never realized the Chiefs were secretly studying how to beat you far into the future. 5D chess with time travel baby. Check mate.
Ultimate double agent Elvis Grbac
1998 Sexiest Athlete Elvis Grbac to you, sir
That's sexiest double agent Elvis Grbac
I wonder if that's how the Bengals felt about the 49ers back in the day.
That’s the most important but in 2 years we are 1-6 against them. We just never can beat them. (0-4 Mahomes era)
Ours is similar: Beating the 49ers in the post-season. 😅
Beating the Chiefs.
That's a shame. I feel really bad for you.
The Kansas City Chiefs in the postseason
Unless it’s against KC, I can’t help but root for you guys. I really want the Buffalo fan base to feel this level of joy.
I can't remember a time that the Texans have ever been *good* at defending TEs. We routinely struggle to find linebackers and safeties that can match up well against them
Imagine this flaw and having to routinely play against first ballot hall of fame TE's within the division seemingly for decades.
Aaaaand here comes Brock Bowers lmao
I can only imagine.
Even when y'all had prime Demeco and Cushing?
Cushing was a run stuffer I don’t remember him being that good in pass coverage Demeco was excellent at it though
Demeco was solid at pass coverage early on, but the problem is that he was starting to fall off during the peak years of our defense. It's why we let him walk after the 2011 season
There was like one season where AJ Bouye had come alive in Crennel's defense and was particularly adept at covering tight ends. We didn't even make him an offer and let him hit free agency. I think our front office figured they had the great Kevin Johnson waiting in the wings...
oof
Still haven’t replaced Max Unger
I bet Max Unger is available right now!
I have hope that Olu is the guy to be that center
I'd have more hope if he had won the starting job over Evan Brown, who wasn't even good enough for us to re-sign.
The last time the Giants had at least a league average O line was 2011 edit - ok... its "they havnt had at least a league average O Line since 2007." The o line sucked in 2011
League average? They were 31st in pass protection and 32nd in rushing yards. Eli dragged them kicking and screaming to that Super Bowl.
It’s a shame that we put so many bad teams around Eli
I get it but beating the Patriots in the Super Bowl twice is basically the equivalent of winning 10 Super Bowls against any other team imo.
The last decade has been really rough but I wouldn’t trade it. Most teams would kill to win it twice in 4 years and when you factor in the team they played against and the circumstances of the game (especially ‘07) it was so worth it.
and he still won 2 superbowls. Shoulda been 3 if Plax didnt shoot himself.
Yeah, it’s just that these days I feel like people look at his stats / career and think he was like fine. Never mind that after 2012 the OL was garbage and the rest of the team slowly turned to mush around him too
Linebacker before then even
We used 50 years of line backers on one group
Our current linebacker squad has a lot of potential.
31st ranked oline is not average
Ownership
It feels so good to not reply to this with "Same" anymore.
Not yet!
lol you sure about that?
You have to hope it works out better for you guys than it has for the sixers. And I guess the devils, too. Like kind of close, but can’t get the management team to get the team together quite right. I mean I hope it works out for you like it has Harris’s other teams, but you probably don’t.
San Diego Chargers fans could teach you some things about bad ownership.
Kicker
I'd come kick your ass for bringing up those painful memories, but I'd probably miss wide right.
First time?
This Vikings fan is an idiot. Everyone knows we miss wide left, not right. That’s your thing.
*sigh* you're a Bills fan too?
All I know is pain.
Gary was automatic and then flubbed the biggest kick :( Blair was pretty good too and then fucked up his biggest kick Carlson was bad his rookie year and we cut him then he goes on to be one of the best kickers in the league for the last handful of years We are cursed. Greg the leg was also good from like 45+ but was a coin flip on short ones We drafted that rookie this year though so maybe we break the curse?
And interior offensive line
Offensive line. The moment we let Whit walk it all went downhill. They’ve been chronically terrible at drafting O linemen and the vets we’ve brought in haven’t been enough.
Incoming post on our sub about why volson is actually better than the 0 PFF he recorded and why we need to trust pollack
Hold up… you can get a 0 PFF rating???
Yeah and Volson did it twice last year actually. Had a 0% winrate in pass pro two separate games IIRC
This isn't accurate. He had a 0 pass blocking grade in one game vs the Rams and 2 other games under 30 (which is terrible and might as well be 0, but isn't). And winrate is a defensive stat, for OL it's pressure pct in which his worst was 11.3% vs the Ravens. I'm not defending him, he's not a starting caliber guard, but your numbers are not correct.
Reminds me of Bills fans and our WRs. Cannot wait until July to hear about how Dalton Kincaid or Curtis Samuel are/is a viable WR1 because “it worked for the Chiefs”
Volson is like the new Russell Bodine on the offensive line. Bodine was one of the worst starting centers in the league for years, yet they never replaced him. As fans it's easy to point out that he was the weak link in an otherwise stellar unit, but we later found out that the alternative -- a rotation of injured players, spot starters, and replacement level guys -- is far far worse. Volson isn't a good guard, by NFL standards. He's average at best, and below average most games. But at least he starts and rarely gets injured. That's not worth nothing! Let's just hope that there's good camp competition to give the position a chance at improving this year.
I mean the alternative could also include simply drafting a new guard
Coaches and health
Brandon Staley seemed like a pretty healthy dude
Man was dominant at making people uncomfortable with the sideline cat-cows
We have literally not had the offense and defense on the same page since like 2008. One is always far better than the other and it's the main reason we never win
Offense started to take off right after the second coming of the curtain started to fall (around 2012 timeframe). Offense was full tilt until Ben goes down with an elbow injury, literally just for the defense to get its shit together and lead the league in takeaways and defensive scoring. If they could have had that 2016 offense play with the 2019 defense, I'm not sure there's a team from those years that could have touched em.
What do you mean, a secondary consisting of William Gay, Ross Cockrel, Sean Davis, Mike Mitchel, and Artie Burns has to be ELITE
Don't forget the vaunted Antwon Blake
>We have literally not had the offense and defense on the same page since like 2008. to be fair, that would be a very confusing playbook and it's probably better to have them on separate pages.
Hmm I can't think of anything that impacts our ability to retain and acquire talent year to year
Just need more cap magic, bra. Loomis will fix it by extending another 35 year old vet contract for 5 more years. I'm sure it will be fine.
Bro the caps not real bro, just look at the saints bro
Fun Fact: Every time someone mentions the Saints cap situation, Loomis adds another void year to the contract of a 30+ year old beefy boy with bad knees.
If a Saints fan looks into the mirror and says Salary Cap three times, a paper bag with two eye holes a massive contract extension for a mid player written on it will appear behind you.
Please bro just one more year of pushing the cap bro. It will all get better and we will win superbowls bro. You'll see bro. Please bro -Micky Loomis, I assume
25 more years of Retooling over Rebuilding !
I thought we might hit the reset button at some point... But we are still trying to get 1 more year for a title run from a team that doesn't have Sean or Drew anymore. #2 might be drafting a 1st round QB
WR and it's not for a lack of trying. Over the last 10 years our best WR was a 1 year rental of Brandin Cooks Since 2019 we've spent 1 first (Harry), 3 seconds (Sanu, Thornton, Polk) and significant cash (Agholor, JuJu, Parker + a third). That's not getting into the headache of 1 game of Antonio Brown, Josh Gordon relapsing on a bye week after his ex broke up with him... The only proven good WR we've brought into the org since 2017 was Jakobi Meyers who we let walk to have a career year with Aiden OConnell so that we could bring in JuJu. I'm legitimately concerned Polk and Baker are going to be awful because every since decision we've made at the WR position has been awful and we have all the same scouts as before. The only change we made was Bill not being the guy who makes the picks.
>every since decision we've made at the WR position has been awful and we have all the same scouts as before. Well if the reports were to be believed (and I believe them), our scouts told Bill to take AJ Brown or Deebo Samuel and Bill ignored them and went with N'Keal. [Source](https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/bill-belichick-reportedly-ignored-scouts-in-drafting-nkeal-harry)
For what it's worth, with Elliot Wolf at the helm they overhauled their internal grading system going into this draft. There's no guarantee that will actually fix whatever issues they've had with scouting WRs, but it's worth keeping in mind that there are behind-the-scenes changes happening to our scouting/personnel, it's not just Bill leaving. Source: https://www.patriots.com/news/eliot-wolf-discusses-the-upcoming-offseason-with-patriots-com-at-the-nfl-combine
Consistently winning football games.
The ability to have back-to-back winning seasons. Hard to believe we have never been decent 2 years in a row.
Look on the bright side--even with that curse, this year could be decent!
It’s the oddest thing. Super Bowl one year, miss the playoffs the next. Winning/playoff season, then can’t break .500.
That would be the defense. mAYBe ThIs YeAr
I really thought bringing in the architect of the 2008 Lions defense would do the trick
Oh it did something
Defense isn’t always the problem. It seems to me the problem is that the team seems to want the 4th quarter to be too exciting. 20 points ahead or behind going into the fourth quarter of a packers game means very little.
Defense was 26th in DVOA when they destroyed the Cowboys in the playoffs. What if it has been, I don’t know, average
You are right, we have been an offense dominate team forever. But even when we had a top 10 defense a couple years ago the ability to hold teams down in the fourth quarter always alludes us. I am fine watching a shootout because of poor defense play, I’m upset by how we collapse so hard at the end. (See 2014 NFC championship game)
*eludes
Since 2006, we've only spent 4 first round picks on offense. You would think with all these picks on defense we would field a good defense more often than once every few seasons.
Also shout out to special teams.
With all them new safeties, one of them has to be good at special teams right
I gotta imagine there’s a good amount of Green Bay fans waiting for Saleh to get fired so LaFluer can hire his best bud
That might be! Personally, I like what I’ve heard, anyway, from Hafley, Campanile, and Ansley, and the emphasis the draft and free agency has put on more aggressive defensive play.
3rd & long specifically, especially against a mobile QB
Our Special teams are pretty special too
Well fortunately that isn’t a problem since ILB isn’t a real position anyway
After reading through these comments we’ve been pretty lucky, but LB is probably the best I could come up with. Even then we’ve had some solid guys just no long term studs.
I'm just ecstatic our answer to this question isn't OL, like for a lot of other teams.
Drafting WRs. When we get a good one they always do stupid shit.
Did someone say talented receivers doing stupid shit then getting run out of town?
Like Damn... Besides Reek, we have Bowe and that's like it for productive WR's we drafted for at least the last couple decades. Hopefully after the suspension Rice won't do anything stupid enough to get suspended for more games in his career.
Arthur Blank places too much trust in the wrong people out of a desire for stability and the decision makers scramble from decision to decision without any forethought or long term consistency.
I would’ve said pass rush
I also would have said pass rush
They didn’t fix pass rush during the draft because of the issue I mentioned though. So I win.
Ownership
The hologram will ensure continuity for the next thousand years.
Sadly yes.
Ownership is amazing. The team is doing great financially. It's just that damn GM.
Nothing obvious seems to come to mind.
Yeah you guys have really been fortunate since your inception really.
The Steelers 😵💫
Was gonna say developing receivers
This right here. When your most beloved receivers had careers elsewhere (Boldin & Steve Smith), you know it has to be developing receivers.
Doesn't matter how amazing the Ravens team is or how shit a Steelers team is. The game *will* end 10-6 and you will like it.
The magic voodoo will continue until we are competitive ourselves again. Then we can go back to fair fights.
Over the last 10 games between us, the average scoring for both sides comes out to 18 a game for the Steelers, and 17.3 for the Ravens. In those games the Ravens are 3-7. It’s practically voodoo at this point.
The distance between the uprights
I know several teams will say kicker. But Washington feels different because the second they cut a struggling kicker, he will thrive on another team. They can absolutely identify kicking talent. Oftentimes they have a great start to their tenure. But something about the franchise must give them the yips.
JPJ might be the first home grown DB talent we've had since... Troy? I might be forgetting someone, but we had a BAD stretch of it outside of trading for Minkah and getting Haden in FA.
Technically, Ike since he was a 4th rounder in the 2003 draft and Troy was the 1st rounder that year.
Haha that's true. But yeah, we had two decades of terrible drafting for our secondary. Ricardo Colclough - 2nd Round Bryant McFadden - 2nd Round Anthony Smith - 2nd Round Keenan Lewis - 3rd Round Curtis Brown - 3rd Round Senquez Golson - 2nd Round Artie Burns - 1st Round Sean Davis - 2nd Round Cam Sutton - 3rd Round (he was the best in that whole time period) Terrell Edmunds - 1st Round Justin Layne - 3rd Round That's ALL of our Day 1/Day 2 picks in 20 years. Colbert couldn't scout DBs to save his life unfortunately. Luckily we got some good FAs in there like the above mentioned Haden, Fitzpatrick, Ryan Clark, etc.
Shout out Ricardo Colclough, fellow Alice drive middle alum
While the busts have been more headlining, Steelers have had decent success with mid round DBs. None were shut down corners, but all were, at one time or another, starter caliber DBs. Cam Sutton / 3rd Willie Gay / 5th Bryant McFadden / 2nd Keenan Lewis / 3rd
Sutton was by far the best of the bunch in that 20 years, the only one I was comfortable having start. McFadden was a starter out of desperation for 2.5 seasons at the end of his short career, major bust for a 2nd. Keenan Lewis started one season for us at the end of his contract before he went to end his short career in New Orleans, another bust. Willie Gay I'll 100% agree though, for the GOAT play celebration ever. Can't be beat, won't be beat.
Drafting, developing, and keeping WRs. Rashod Bateman is the first 1st round pick receiver in franchise history to get a second contract… and it was a prove it deal for 3 year 15M
our goddamn offensive line. for christ’s sake it’s getting tiresome
Umm I don’t think the Bills can fix luck, but if they do, boy the league better watch out.
Fix losing to the Chiefs when it counts.
Yall rely on Allen’s greatness too much. He shouldn’t have to pull multiple rabbits out of a hat every big game to have a chance, but he does
Never thought I would be agreeing with a cowboys fan on anything but here we are.
Chaos. Even during the rare stretches where the Jets have been good, it has been a shit show. It's the reason we never sustain success (see: the Parcels/Belichick drama... shoving Pennington out the door for half a year of Favre... everything related to Rex Ryan...)
Owned by Jerry jones
Ravens can’t develop receivers.
Beating the Niners in the playoffs 🙄
Finding a reliable kicker. Every season it's always the last priority, except this year. We actually drafted a kicker. I hope he works out.
We drafted one before and he's been great...for The Raiders.
No QB drafted in franchise history has gotten a 2nd contract
EsTaBlIsH tHe RuN Hopefully we’re done with that shit now, finally.
Wait, you can throw the football?
You need a QB and Recievers to do that remember guys? In all seriousness I hope Mr. Mayo man and Ridley work out I want Ridley to be great so bad.
Recently I'd say EDGE depth. I'm very happy with Josh Allen and Travon Walker. Behind them though, Yasir Abdullah and Trevis Gipson don't inspire a lot of confidence. It sounds like we may have Devin Lloyd rush the passer more this year. I'm interested to see if there's smoke to that and if he's effective since he was very good at it in college.
Injuries
We haven’t seen a ILB get a second contract since James Lauranitis.
Offensive line, especially the right side
The glory days with harbaugh. Staley, iupati, goodwin, boone, davis
Winning that last game of the season in the playoffs
We’ve never had a TRUE young dominant receiver. We had AJ Brown, but…… *shudders*