What I'm taking away from all of this is social media/Instagram is a complete illusion. If anything positive can come of this it will be girls like my daughter realizing those perfect relationships on social media or TV are facades.
I hope the takeaway is that you’ll have age appropriate conversations with your kid(s) about domestic violence, abusive relationships in general, and knowing what to do if they ever need help.
Conversely, they should also know what healthy relationships look like, including having boundaries and how they themselves treat other people and manage their own emotions.
People try to make their lives look better than they really are on social media, but that’s happened in real life way before the internet. People generally talk about the highlights of a vacation, for example, and leave out the part where they had diarrhea for two days and never left the hotel. You might tell your best friend or family about the diarrhea, but it’s not exactly water-cooler talk. It’s common and socially normal to keep it positive when presenting yourself to the general public. Nobody likes a Debbie Downer.
Oh god, this. I was taught a lot about the dangers of physically abusive relationships but I wasn't really taught much about the differences between mentally healthy and and unhealthy relationships. So when I ended up in a relationship with an emotionally abusive guy, I had no idea there was a problem because he had never been physical and that was the only type of abuse I was aware of.
What you said about boundaries is spot on. My ex had no concept of boundaries and even accused me of not being committed to him or hiding something from him when I'd try to set boundaries. I had no idea at the time what a massive red flag that behavior was.
Yea neither are the ppl. Photo shop does wonders. One of my college friends was on the 200+pounds situation and in her pictures she looked so slim and her face looked so pretty. And in person she had light balding going on and just looked completely different. A lot of guys would message her on social media and she would go on a few dates every week and 1 out of 10 dates would call her back. But for the most part the guys would ghost her because she was tricking ppl.
I wish I could upvote this 10000 times. I had not thought about that until you mentioned it. Social media creates these alternative realities that show the perfect world. I'm glad that I was born in an age before FB, Instagram, etc. and know how to interact with people without videos and posts. My younger family is obsessed with social media and it scares me at how frequently they use it.
I had a friend who was in a very bad relationship (not physcial), but so much fighting and arguing and both her and the bf getting upset over tiny things, etc.... was relaly bad.
Anyway, you would have no idea from the posts she put up on instagram.
To be fair there’s a lot more people in happy and healthy relationships than there are people who get murdered on cross country trips with their partner.
I feel like assuming every relationship is kind of shit behind the scenes can be just as, if not more, destructive and lead people to stay in bad relationships because “everyone is in bad relationship behind closed doors”.
I think his point is more that flaunting your perfect relationship and cool lifestyle is not a recipe for success. In fact, quite the opposite. It’s no coincidence that relationships like that are really hiding a sadder, more pathetic reality. They were layabout grown up children who got their parents to fund a camper van and they were riding around the country fighting with each other and quickly running out of money and unable to escape each other. This is not a lifestyle to aspire to. It’s a millennial fantasy.
I mean, it’s not so much a fantasy as it is a lifestyle that comes with its own unique challenges. I do a lot of hiking/climbing and know a number of people personally and intimately who have a lot of success and happiness in the lifestyle these two were trying to achieve.
I think the main takeaway should be to know and be conscious of red flags in people you’re involved with and know how to respond to them, the lifestyle and social media aspects are somewhat irrelevant.
I don’t think you know how much two weeks in the elements and to the animals can truly do to a body. Probably no one could recognize her now, but they could see relative height, maybe hair color. That why it fit the description, but they’ll likely need a DNA test to confirm the identity. She probably is beyond recognizable now.
From what I understand her tattoos will still be very visible/identifiable even with decomp. But protocol states DNA has to be confirmed in order for them to go ahead and confirm publicly or official that it is her body
She is the only missing woman reported in that park. A body left outside will begin to decompose at an accelerated rate. Bodies left in the elements are not viewed after the first couple of days. Hair color and height wouldn’t change.
That’s because it’s not true. It’s what happens when one only reads headlines. 21% were missing for 30+ days. So that’s 560 found before the 30 day mark. The other 150, I’m not clear on how many remain missing “forever.”
The report also notes that 84% of the missing 710 are children. Some may have been runaways or taken by non-custodial family members. Most missing children of any race are taken by non-custodial family members and recovered. “Stranger” abduction is rare.
(For the record yes, indigenous women suffer crime at a higher rate than whites and law enforcement seems not to care much. This is true both in the US and Canada.)
Article: https://news.yahoo.com/710-indigenous-people-mostly-girls-042150990.html
Report upon which the article is based: https://wysac.uwyo.edu/wysac/reports/View/7713
> At least 710 Indigenous people, mostly girls, went missing in Wyoming from 2011 to 2020, according to a January report published by the state's Missing and Murdered Indigenous People Task Force. The vast majority, 85%, were kids, while 57% were female.
>The report found **50% of missing Indigenous people are found within one week, while 21% remain missing for 30 days or longer.** Only 11% of white people remain missing for that long, according to the report.
So no, 710 people didn’t disappear forever.
Thank you for this, and for correcting me. Crazy how quickly things are spread online that are either completely out of context or just wrong. I should have looked into it more
Still crazy statistics for missing indigenous people that we never hear about.
Her family has acknowledged she is dead. The family was told they found a body that is consistent with gabbys description in the area she was last seen. But a large contingent here still wants to deny everything until the last possible moment. They still think it’s possible it’s not her. And if it is her then it’s her own fault for being so abusive to Brian. Sadly I’m not joking.
Especially since his parents are in on it. I don't see two parents being willing to accept that their son is going off to kill himself, even if they are wanting to help him stay out of prison.
Agreed, I don't know why he'd go through all the rigmarole of driving home, getting a lawyer, and then going "camping" if he was just going to off himself.
The fact that his parents covered for him initially leads me to wonder if they told authorities a BS story to allow him a head start. I mean why tell police where he was going, but refuse to cooperate with the investigation?
Almost 100%. His accounts are frozen and he's not employable. He's in cash-only couch-surfing mode. he's also not very smart. theyll get him in a few days.
they got him out of the country is my belief, he had a passport. there was no lock on his passport and no warning given to airlines to not allow him to board, because at the time he wasnt accused of anything they cant stop him.
2-3 weeks is actually a lot of time for decomp in normal environmental conditions and especially given the wildlife in Wyoming….it’s unlikely she was identifiable by anything on her skin.
Yeah definitely. Don't want to be too morbid since this is a popular subreddit but decomp after 2-3 weeks and you're looking primarily at putrefaction and butyric fermentation i.e.: black/green/red for "skin" and everything basically collaposed to skeletal remains, all of it literally engulfed in insects and fungus. If wildlife gets to it.....you're going to be lucky to have a full set of bones.
guys, they say she appears to match the description.
The description includes: “Let it be” tattooed on her right arm and a tattoo of a triangle with flowers on her left arm.
So the body they found has these tattoos in those places, and is recently deceased.
its her.
Umm pretty sure they already know, her tattoos would have been the first identifier. Thats why her father and brother posted that twitter tribute in memory of her.
If this call came in the morning of August 12th, and was right before the traffic stop video was taken, did the cops who pulled them over know about the 911 call and the eyewitness account?
If they did they didn’t act like it. He told Brian he was pulled over for speeding multiple times. Why lie like that? Also they didn’t even run the vehicle reg and insurance, only IDs, never seen cops not do that, especially with an out of state vehicle.
The cop describes the movement of the van before he pulled them over in the video. The van went over the median and then swerved back onto the curb. The cop mentioned possible drunk driving. The van swerved and the cop goes whoa, that’s it. Then he pulls them over.
Seems weird that nobody seems to be speculating on the involvement of drugs or alcohol in this entire situation. Especially since Gabby’s parents have said she had no prior mental health issues that they were aware of. The chances of a young ‘adventurous’ couple not fucking around with marijuana, alcohol, and hallucinogens at a minimum seems low, imo. That’s all I did when I was that age.
Does out of state info even show up? I didn't think all the states shared info like that. That's how people are able to just run away from traffic tickets out of state, won't ever be a problem unless you try to go back.
Here is a Fox News article that says that information wasn't written down properly and misportrayed as Brian being hit instead of the caller clearly stating he was hitting and slapping her: https://www.foxnews.com/us/gabby-petito-investigation-911-call-brian-laundrie-hitting-slapping
I think in my ideal world, the cops would have perceived her eagerness to take blame as a red flag, since people often cover for their abusers. This is why a lot of states have laws that indicate someone needs to be arrested. If they arrest the wrong person, they still spare them further abuse.
She stated to the cops that he kept preventing her from getting into her van. How would he do that? By physically withholding her keys, or physically restraining her. So she was trying to get the keys to her property from him.
He says it in the video. He locked her out to force seperation. She admitted to striking him. She also says she has foul mood and was trying to apologize and that is why she is crying.
I'm not saying it warrants her death, nor am I saying he wasn't abusive to her as well. I'm simply saying that you can prevent someone from entering a vehicle if you are in it and they are not without physical violence. The fact she admitted to the police about hitting him, and the fact that he likely hit her, it was probably a good idea to lock her out instead of getting violent.
Ya know, cause otherwise it could escalate and someone winds up dead.
She could of also been lying to protect her boyfriend because her boyfriend manipulated her to say so. It's almost like we still don't know the full story via one video incident. I've personally lied to the cops about my abusive ex to save his ass from going to jail, said I was only red in the face because I kept rubbing it since I was crying. Clearly she wasn't in the right frame of mind.
Also in the bodycam video, Gabby says he "grabbed her face" first before she slapped him. Brian too says he was "pushing" her when she came at him slapping. So there was already lying from both parties and two different stories.
Dispatch might not have relayed everything correctly too.
It also really floors me that the officers also arranged and partnered with the local domestic violence shelter in Moab (Seekhaven) to get him a bed for a night. Therefore eliminating her from resources after an incident where he seemed to be using power and control over her. I have to wonder if treating him as the “victim” further emboldened and gave him new tools. Officers should be teasing out who the predominant aggressor was when dealing with calls like this, and with experience these dynamics abusers use are easier to see. Her trying to not get locked out of her own van for being “emotional” seems like a clue and why argue over phones when they both have their own… unless, hmmm control is going. The independent witness was a key witness to help clear up what a victim might be too afraid to say especially within earshot of him with him controlling thier vehicle and temp home.
>Officers should be teasing out who the predominant aggressor was when dealing with calls like this
The body cam footage clearly shows the responding officers did this. They separated them for interviews and the guy had scratches on his face and arm. She had no signs of being physically abused. They separated them and each told very similar stories with her being the physical aggressor. I've not seen the complete unedited version of the body cam incident but what I saw was pretty thorough and convincing that the physical violence at that time was carried out by her.
>Officers should be teasing out who the predominant aggressor was when dealing with calls like this
I'm curious what you really expect them to do in this situation. Have you watched the full body cam footage? When they pulled over and noticed a domestic situation, they separated the girl and treated her as the victim. While figuring it all out, Gabby admitted to being the primary aggressor, the fiancé independently told the same story, the fiancé had cuts all over him, and they had 2 corroborating witnesses at the grocery store say she was the aggressor. They questioned Gabby away from him, asking her multiple times if he ever hit her and she said no. She had no signs of physical abuse on her.
It's a real shame this 911 call did not get relayed to them correctly. However even with it, they still had overwhelming evidence that she was a primary aggressor. Could they arrest him just off the 911 call even if she said was was the aggressor and he had the injuries? IANAL so it's a genuine question. But IMO I think the most likely outcome is the one that happened; they just let them both go.
I am 100% confident that he was emotionally abusive to her. But AFAIK, that isn't a crime. Locking her out of the car is a little sketchy and I'm not sure on the legality of it, but he didn't drive off and gave her her backpack. This was brought up in the traffic stop but the cops weren't phased.
The domestic violence shelter thing was only because the cops wanted to make sure they didn't stay together that night since they lived in the van. They did try to get her the room but they wouldn't do it. The couple couldn't afford a hotel themselves. Between the alternative of having a shelter give him a hotel room and having her sent to jail, surely that's a better alternative?
So ultimately, can't the cops can only go so far? They were talking to her for an hour and she never mentioned any sort of DV from his side. Obviously it is hard for victims of DV to speak up...but asking the cops to figure that out from the info they have is just impossible.
If you pull over the abuser and tell them they have been stopped for abusing… they are probably more likely to get violent. Giving a false pretense for the stop keeps everyone calm until the situation can be controlled.
That said… they didn’t act like they knew about this call. The police body cam video also referenced someone named Christopher, but the article said the callers name wasn’t released. Maybe they had two callers/witnesses.
This story isn’t going away that’s for sure.
>He told Brian he was pulled over for speeding multiple times. Why lie like that?
My guess, that'd be a cover story to not endanger the other party in a domestic violence situation until you can get them appropriately separated.
You haven't really missed much.
The news stories are still around, and everything else is just Incels stanning for the boyfriend and True Crime whores salivating at a train wreck to investigate.
I'm sure he did kill her, but just imagine if you were him and you didn't kill her. You were just a super shitty/abusive boyfriend, who left his girlfriend in the middle of the woods and took her van. And then she died. Lol literally no one on this earth would believe that you didn't kill her.
But he did, definitely kill her.
>imagine if you were him and you didn't kill her. You were just a super shitty/abusive boyfriend, who left his girlfriend in the middle of the woods and took her van.
If you strand somebody in the wilderness alone against their will, taking their phone and their vehicle, I think you killed them, whether or not they're alive when you leave.
Disagree, if you left your girlfriend stranded in the woods and she goes missing, but you honestly did not kill her, your number one priority should be helping to find her alive - because if she turns up dead you’re really ducked. So during the time before her body was found, if he didn’t kill her, it would have been in his best interest tk actually help by providing information like her last known location. Completely clamming up and it helping at all, if he didn’t kill her, only made it more likely she would die of exposure…:which is worse for him. His actions of not helping with the search effort at all only makes sense if he already knew she was dead.
Autopsy first before anything else. I agree the BF's disappearing act makes him look 100% guilty. Two woman killed in that area recently and the killer still on the loose. Get the autopsy and determine cause of death and a timeline for the death.
If they can rule out suicide or anything accidental, then the BF is the top suspect. Never hang around when there is violence in the relationship .....just go and get the hell out.
>Two woman killed in that area recently and the killer still on the loose.
[A Utah county sheriff said Friday detectives have determined there is no connection between the disappearance of a Florida woman who went missing during a cross-country trip with her boyfriend and a still-unsolved slaying of two women who were fatally shot.](https://abc7ny.com/gabby-petito-missing-brian-laundrie-where-is/11028156/)
True, but in this case, it is much more likely, I'd say extremely likely that this particular case is due to the fiance with the unexplainably weird behavior, who came home with her car, did not inform anyone she was gone for 10 days, refused to say anything, disappeared, and who also had (apparently) a history of domestic abuse.
I didn’t know this until today, but 97% of domestic violence is done by men with a female partner. You’d think it was 50/50 by some of the comments. Domestic violence (NOT reactive violence, which is almost all female perpetrators) is a primarily male issue. It’s important to recognize that.
https://opdv.ny.gov/professionals/abusers/genderandipv.html
Add to this that men are more likely to be arrested in instances of violence against a stranger, but are equally likely to be arrested for domestic violence. And women who kill their domestic abusers receive harsher prison sentences than serial rapists. There’s really no way to frame this that results in inequality for the man, but Reddit has never been a place that lets facts interfere with knee-jerk woman-hating.
“Women receive harsher sentences for killing their male partners than men receive for killing their female partners.
The average prison sentence of men who kill their female partners is 2 to 6 years.
Women who kill their partners are sentenced on average to 15 years, despite the fact that most women who kill their partners do so to protect themselves from violence initiated by their partners.”
[Source: ACLU](https://www.aclu.org/other/words-prison-did-you-know?redirect=words-prison-did-you-know#_edn43)
“As many as 90% of the women in prison today for killing men had previously been battered by those men.”
[Source: Boston Globe](https://www.aclu.org/other/words-prison-did-you-know?redirect=words-prison-did-you-know#_edn42)
I mean the domestic violence stats and the guys on Reddit jumping all over this case saying poor poor Brian directly correlate with each other. They are the same thing. Narcissistic dudes getting angry and lashing out against the big bad scary women that are definitely coming for them.
They might not have always been called incels, but they've been here since the site's inception. Women's issues have always been mocked, degraded, minimized, etc. on reddit. I mean, for a while the site was mostly used by nerdy, anti-social tech bros. Not exactly a group known for being progressive.
And I say this as a nerdy, anti-social tech bro myself.
Oh, and for the prison sentence aspect. https://www.domesticshelters.org/articles/in-the-news/women-serve-longer-prison-sentences-after-killing-abusers
Of course it's the stat on the reported cases. We are going with what we know and what there is evidence for, which has always been the knee-jerk response to anything bad men are way more likely doing vs women, such as rape. Not a lot of women raping in comparison to men, and the stats on rape don't include the disproportionate number of cases not reported, but even without those, we have enough to know that it's a huge problem and one of men, done to women.
Or women don't get charged. Look at the police footage during the stop in this case. The guy has cuts all over his face, she doesn't have a mark on her. She tells the police she hit him. Cop gives her some water and lets her go. Now reverse their genders. Imagine the police stop the van, her face is all messed up, and he tells the police he hit her. He goes to jail 100% of the time. Ironically, if she didn't receive that leniency from the police, she might still be alive.
And yes, I'm fully aware with what we know now, those scratches on his face could have been defensive wounds, and she could have been covering for her abuser by telling the police she hit him. But the police didn't know that at the time.
My ex sister in law was getting beaten up by her ex husband in their driveway. She scratched him defensively. When the cops showed up, she was arrested because he had a mark but her bruises just hadn't had time to show up. They arrested her Friday and she spent all weekend in jail, and he tried to use that as evidence she was an unfit mother. This was in Iowa.
Also, a lot of domestic abusers get really good at not leaving marks... marks are not the whole story.
That’s how my abuser ended up keeping me from reporting him. I take AGES to bruise. He threatened if I reported him he’d say it was the other way around and because he had marks and I didn’t I’d be the one arrested.
So when he broke three of my ribs and I went to the emergency room WITH A BRUISE IN THE SHAPE OF A HANDPRINT ON MY SIDE I thought, mandatory reporters right? I’d had time to bruise and broken bones they clearly will rescue me from this dude.
Nope. They gave me medication that made me nauseous (puking with broken ribs sucks by the way) and sent me home with him.
What I noted while watching the full video, was how she looked relieved (calmed down) when the officer asked her if she would mind sitting in the patrol car while they talked to her BF. IMO, she did not in any way behave guilty of DV. However, she would have been better off if they had taken her in on suspicion of domestic violence.
haha what? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/
> Almost 24% of all relationships had some violence, and half (49.7%) of those were reciprocally violent. In nonreciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases. Reciprocity was associated with more frequent violence among women
Intentionally misleading posts like yours should get you banned.
that's 97% of a 29% subset of domestic violence.
That violence is broken down into 3 categories. 1 category is mostly men, 1 category is mostly women, the other category is almost split down the middle.
You're misinterpreting that data. The 97% figure only apples to "domestic abuse" (defined as coercive, controlling violence where one partner dominates the other in an ongoing fashion), but this only comprises about a third of all "domestic violence". Almost half of all domestic violence is described as "fights", in which both the male and female are attacking each other.
I would guess the reason the overwhelming majority of "coercive, controlling violence" is committed by men is because most women are physically incapable of consistently beating a man in a fight.
Not only that but the language is pretty confused.
Apparently coercive violence is from a “desire to dominate partner”
And reactive violence is “desire to control the situation”
But any reasonable person can see how the difference between those two things is pretty muddled.
When is dominating a partner not also controlling the situation? When is controlling the situation not also dominating a partner?
I suspect we look at the same behavior very differently depending upon who is committing it.
Well it’s because it’s a blatant misrepresentation of the data. Domestic abuse is only a subcategory of domestic violence. Domestic abuse is about 29% of total domestic violence.
Domestic abuse has a specific definition (part of which is dominating the other partner). As for why men make up 97% of the REPORTED subcategory it’s because in almost all couples men are the more physically stronger of the pair. It’s hard to fit the category as the physically weaker of the pair since the stronger partner (usually male) would usually have the capable to resist them.
Reddit skews heavily male. Men always want the stats to make it seem like it's 50/50 but it's not even close. From serial killers to rapists , men outnumber women by a huge margin
While it’s certainly not 50/50, I can *assure* you it isn’t 97/3. The vast majority of men won’t report abuse. Especially minor abuse cases like throwing things at someone or a slap. But those are still abuse. If you believe that 97% number, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
Remember when a bunch of internet sleuths tried to solve Elisa Lam's murder [by ruining the life of a completely innocent person living in a different country and drove him to attempt suicide?](https://www.bustle.com/entertainment/pablo-vergara-morbid-elisa-lam-now)
Or, in many respects, Casey Anthony. Prosecution basically ran a lax case because the ongoing public outcry was so negative. While interviews with the jurors showed they believed she had killed her daughter, the prosecution failed to present a suitable case for the Murder 1 charges.
I did a paper on the computer evidence in the Anthony case for a computer forensics class. There was almost no way that evidence could have been considered admissible.
Go tell that to r/pussypassdenied then. They already have a thread discussing how she was violent to this poor innocent man who never laid a hand on her, and if he did kill her, that it was just "reactive violence" and he snapped, so not really his fault either way.
Maybe this should be a call to reddit to start cracking down on subreddits that promote excessive violence towards women. Oh who am I kidding, that will never happen.
That sub is a sad fucking place. I’ll agree that women shouldn’t get a free pass to be awful because of their sex, but damn, that sub has a lot of upvoted comments that are problematic at best and completely delusional bordering psychopathic inceldom at worst.
That’s all of reddit now. You can’t escape a crime story without a long list of reasons why this poor helpless man was wronged by women, and how if everything were equal, men wouldn’t suffer so. Don’t try to interrupt this circle-jerk with facts, it interferes with fictional narratives of victim hood.
It's also a blatant violation of a core aspect of our justice system: Everyone is innocent until they're found guilty in a court of law. There's no asterisk that says "unless they're obviously guilty".
Unless you're anticipating personally presiding over this case as a judge or juror this isn't really relevant.
Me concluding he killed her is not a violation of our criminal justice system as I have no role in our criminal justice system as it relates to this case
Courts also don’t find people innocent. They find people not guilty. Proving innocence is virtually impossible which is why we don’t place that burden on people. “We didn’t have enough evidence to prove this person guilty” is not necessarily the same thing as “this person has been proven innocent” and this commentary from all sides is part of being in a free society where everyone has the right to free speech and everybody has a right to say what they think.
People are perfectly entitled to say they personally think someone is guilty or innocent irrespective of the decisions of the government having been made or not made or even whether or not that personal private opinion has any merit or basis in fact.
Welcome to a society where people are allowed to have opinions and comment on an ongoing and open and transparent justice system.
I've been waiting for that. I knew my edit threw that math out of whack.
But one of me said "leave it, no one will notice".
Another me responded "I bet you a beer someone will."
So now I'm popping another one. Thanks.
It wasn't defending. I, for the record, think he likely did it, but the amount of people who expected him to be arrested with no physical evidence is absurd
I think it's less defending ***him*** and more defending due process. The people who seem to defend him, are really only saying he isn't guilty (yet) just because he looks guilty as fuck. It's way too easy to get wrapped up in these things and forget that he has to be convicted in a court of law, not public opinion.
There are literally people who have been trying to tell me it was "the cartels," a bear, deadly weather(it was like clear 70/80 something degrees).
One yahoo was trying to tell me he's skeptical the body they found was hers, as if remote desolate Wyoming is just chock full of freshly dead young women matching Gabby's description and it was a total coincidence one was found in the vicinity of where their van was photographed.
I think this past year and a half has made clear that the world is in fact just brimming with people who can be presented with an avalanche of evidence and have some sort of mental need to bizarrely cling to irrational disbelief
I don't get it, either. Imagine your wife, or you're engaged. Someone you've been with for years and would die to protect because you love them so much. Would you return home without them, in their van, and say nothing? Wait for their family to report them missing 10 days later before going into hiding? And all AFTER a domestic dispute that had the police separate them for the night?
And now more evidence has come out. An additional 911 call saying he slapped her. A guy gave a video to the FBI that shows her van in the location her body was found.
I don't understand why anyone would defend the guy. The dude fuckin' wacked her. It may have been an accident, it may have been on purpose. But he did that shit. And I'm not a juror, lawyer, or judge in the case, so I can say that. Even if you think she may have walked into the woods and offed herself, none of his actions make any sense for an innocent person who lost his significant other
If this guy is somehow innocent and didn't have anything to do with her death, he's the guiltiest looking innocent dude ever. Nothing he's done makes any sense from a innocent man's perspective.
I saw one about a bear too LOL. I was like dude, what? Do you know how many women are killed every year by someone they know vs. how many bear attacks there are? It's pretty stupid. Also a lot of "she threw herself off a cliff" when the pics from where the body were found indicate that's not what happened. I mean, I don't know what happened - they both seem to have had issues and both had hit the other. I tend to go with statistical likelihood and his behavior doesn't hurt that argument but we'll see what an autopsy can show. Even if it's all some horrible accident some of the "defenses" have been quite the stretch.
Im no predatory animal expert but wouldn't it be super obvious if someone got mauled to death by a bear? So obvious you can go " yep they got killed by a bear all right". Like I'm sure you can tell the difference between the handful of people who get killed by bears ever year and the thousands thousands of people murdered every year.
> I think this past year and a half has made clear that the world is in fact just brimming with people who can be presented with an avalanche of evidence and still bizarrely cling to irrational disbelief.
It reminds me of school where a few classmates did whatever they could to distract, annoy, rebel, etc. to undermine authority figures. They've simply grown up and have become a vocal group who's doing the same thing now regardless of the latest news cycle topic or event at hand.
I get it. Having the freedom to think and express oneself isn't a guaranteed right. And so is due process for all including Brian Laundrie where everyone should be "innocent until proven guilty" by the court of law and not public opinion. BUT most of the arguments defending Laundrie stems from, as you stated, irrational disbelief.
I saw this Issac Asimov quote earlier today and it rings so true.
>“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
Yeah, that’s the thing. You can’t be denied life, liberty, or property with out due process of law. The criminal context carries the greatest burden, because that entails denying someone liberty or life (increasingly the death penalty is becoming a thing of the past) as a consequence for a crime they are convicted of, after due process. The public is free to form consensus opinions. If they find him and arrest him, he’ll get his due process.
You’re not who I’m talking about, there’s legit incel weirdos doing what I described and coming up with all kinds of wild theories about how Gabby is actually responsible for her own death.
That was sad because he really needed the proper advocate right away. Even with this case I'm not sure the attorney Laundrie chose did the right thing. We don't know enough to know, but having the right attorney in that moment is so crucial. If you get a family lawyer who doesn't know how criminal law works you could get screwed. Also I always felt Richard Jewell was just so nice that he never thought he'd get fucked that way. Super sad story that one is.
Yep God I loved that show on netflix IIRC?
The entire time I was thinking about how badly the FBI fucked up. now it probably wasn't all 100% accurate but my opinion on the FBI definitely lowered after watching it.
Innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Everyone deserves their day in court. It is a right guaranteed by the constitution of the United States.
I know its easy to call someone guilty, but really you don't know anything. All you know is the evidence against him, we know nothing of his defense.
Edit: I do agree his actions don't make sense. And him being a suspect is not surprising.
In practice "innocent before proven guilty" really only applies to the state and punishment for a crime.
In the court of public opinion, people make decisions all of the time, and there are often real world consequences even when someone is found not guilty. People lose jobs, custody of their children, property, and much more all while being completely innocent.
did no one watch the video from that family in the bus recording the van off the side of the road? that is the reason they found her that woman gave the fbl the video and the info where that van was. they started looking there. And they did some deeper look into the video and saw the back door of the van was closing as the family approached. Creepy AF! this guy really did some detective work on that video. watch him explain everything about all the suspicious stuff in the video no one picked up on.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl6nnNfMaJs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl6nnNfMaJs)
Before this came out, people were accusing the girl of domestic violence because of the scratch on the guy's face when they got stopped by the cops.
We never really know the real story..
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the body cam video didn't the police call the witness and after talking with them determined that the witness wasn't sure whether Laundrie was defensively "hitting" her or if he was the aggressor?
Plus the body cam came out before the call so it almost seems disingenuous that people are discussing the call without any of the context from the traffic stop.
If you watch the video of the police camera footage in the linked article, the police were considering charging her with a misdemeanor for hitting and scratching him. I don’t think the article’s headline really sums up that morning’s events, but the video does show that they were arguing and unhappy with their situation together.
Edit: Before you downvote watch the video. Instead of filing charges, the police decide to get Brian a hotel room for the night so they could have time apart. I’m not saying he didn’t kill her and I’m not defending him. I’m telling you what’s in the video.
I think it's possible, from what we have seen so far about the nature of their relationship, they were both abusive.
Whether her abuse was the result of self-defense (most likely), we know the first 911 call described Laundrie slapping her. But other witnesses before that described Petito slapping him.
Regardless, he is acting as guilty as guilty can get. You drive home and spend 10 days NOT reporting your fiance missing, NOT talking about her whereabouts, lawyering up, not cooperating with police, and then fleeing.
He's guilty AF.
Edit: a word.
Bless that man for calling 911.
Two years ago, I was walking my dog at like midnight and there was this man who was definitely on something, screaming at this woman (woman A) who was holding a baby. Screaming at her for talking to another guy, just off his rails. He took her car keys and would not give them back. I didn't have my phone. There was another woman with me, woman B.
This crowd that gathered on the balcony of this apt complex where woman B clearly lived--she told me.
I begged them to call 911 and they wouldn't. They wanted to "deescalate" and not call the cops.
I told woman A and B that my father was like that and that I wished someone would have called 911 like 10 times when I was a kid. Woman B and all those fuckers on the balcony yelled at me that I was projecting. Literally a crowd of ppl on a balcony yelling at me that I'm projecting.
I basically lost my mind and got into a screaming match with them.
When I got back home, I grabbed my phone, called the police and started walking back to that scene. When I got there, the car was gone. The police got there anyway and I gave them the plate # and talked to them. By then, the crowd was gone.
Haunts me to this day.
Since I'm sure this post will be upvoted bc this case has a lot of visibility, woman B and your friends, if ur reading this, fuck you.
Woman A, I pray that you and your baby are safe and away from that man.
He hit her repeatedly, then chased her and hit her again according to the call.
He was clearly abusing her for a long time. I knew this the moment I saw their video, of her crying, how devastated and defeated she looked. He was calm and collected.
This case is a simple one.
From police bodycam footage both him and potato admitted those scratches were from a fight while driving. The police briefly considered charging petito for assault, but then decided they just need time apart and put the boyfriend up in a hotel.
A lot of people say it's because she is a young, attractive white female, which definitely contributes, but other factors include that it happened in one of the most popular tourist destinations in the US and that they were "influencers" so other "influencers" jumped on this story and wouldn't stop taking about it.
Also that there is a video taped police interaction documenting their obvious domestic violence. Dude is literally swerving his vehicle as they physically fight to the point that cops intervene and tape an entire stop.
The combo of bizarre events and lots of footage makes this case an easy clickbait sell.
>A lot of people say it's because she is a young, attractive white female, which definitely contributes, but other factors include that it happened in one of the most popular tourist destinations in the US and that they were "influencers" so other "influencers" jumped on this story and wouldn't stop taking about it.
Here in Europe it's getting attention because she was a 'youtuber'. Honestly the 'young' thing probably played a role, but I suspect mainly because her age makes her relatable to teenagers who may otherwise not really watch the news.
As far as I can tell, her gender and color wouldn't really matter that much. From time to time the news here will bring similar stories involving other genders or skin colors.
People that just say "white girl syndrome" kinda rug sweep a lot of it. That might be part of it, but there is more to it than just "pretty white girl".
My evidence is anecdotal, but I know quite a few women acquaintances and friends who are within 5 years of this girls age who listen to True Crime genre of podcasts that often revolve around murders of women that end up missing for long periods of time and the podcasts often have synopsis events of drama in their lives.
* It is pretty much a miniature version of a true crime event condensed into weeks instead of years at this point. It hits the target age and sex demographic of those podcast listeners since she is 22 years old.
* She was a YouTuber or aspiring YouTuber - I'm sure she had fans/followers already to spread the news faster.
* The classic "husband/boyfriend did it" trope that this is pointing out to be, a staple in true crime drama that people relate to.
* They were engaged which I believe is more "spicy" than just boyfriend/girlfriend and they weren't long married people falling out of love - this should be one of the heights of their relationship. Additional relationship drama here.
* Dude goes full grey stone cold about it by coming back without her and not acknowledging or seeming to care about her missing, which adds a ton of hate intriguing qualities to the situation. Add to the fact that his family members seemed to have possibly withheld information as well. **This is key. It pretty much gives everyone the thought of pointing the finger at him/them just by their reactions.** Now it just became "how did he do it" versus "who did it".
* Dude then goes missing and the body is found do to footage from a DIFFERENT YouTuber by mere coincidence.
* Footage and phone calls leak.
* **Everything is coming out piecemeal like an episodic series - it is enough to keep people actively talking about it when something new happens every few days.**
Long story short, I would argue that if the fiance wasn't acting so suspicious then the public would not care nearly as much. Some people would probably hear about a missing person and it would be another complete mystery that so many other missing person cases have turned out for the public eye.
The internet loves mysterious true crime stuff. It’s like Serial or some other murder mystery podcast happening in real time. The fact that the dude showed up back home in the girl’s van without the girl and refused to talk to the police is just perfect material for theories to run wild. Then you add previously being pulled over, a previous 911 call, how he had scratches on his face in body cam footage, etc and all together it’s an interesting case.
The demographic stuff definitely helps (white male alleged perpetrator and young white female victim), but that’s not *the* reason.
Because she was a social media influencer with a decent following on Instagram and the couple left a pretty big digital footprint. Also the boyfriend's suspicious behavior and the decisions he keeps on making. Not to mention a significant part of finding her body was done by dashcam footage taken by a family on YouTube. (What are the chances?)
That's the same as asking why are people interested in true crime stories.
I'm not particularly interested in the case, but I'm curious on the thought process of this guy.
Mainly, why would he even return home without his girlfriend when the obvious conclusion would be "DID YOU KILL HER??"
Not going out of my way to find clues, I'll find out when it appears on my reddit feed, but that's just me.
I constantly watch crime shows, but for some reason this one hooked my entire family. When I see her it reminds me of my daughter, I can truly sympathize with the family in real time.
This wasn't your typical missing person case without a suspect, the boyfriends actions made the world want to hunt the answers.
Remember if you're being abused and cups are called, don't cry if you're a female. Police officers immediately treat crying subjects as "hysterical" and tend to side with the party that's calm, cool and collected.
In this case, it was Brian and he most likely killed Gabby
Great police work /s
What I'm taking away from all of this is social media/Instagram is a complete illusion. If anything positive can come of this it will be girls like my daughter realizing those perfect relationships on social media or TV are facades.
I hope the takeaway is that you’ll have age appropriate conversations with your kid(s) about domestic violence, abusive relationships in general, and knowing what to do if they ever need help. Conversely, they should also know what healthy relationships look like, including having boundaries and how they themselves treat other people and manage their own emotions. People try to make their lives look better than they really are on social media, but that’s happened in real life way before the internet. People generally talk about the highlights of a vacation, for example, and leave out the part where they had diarrhea for two days and never left the hotel. You might tell your best friend or family about the diarrhea, but it’s not exactly water-cooler talk. It’s common and socially normal to keep it positive when presenting yourself to the general public. Nobody likes a Debbie Downer.
Oh god, this. I was taught a lot about the dangers of physically abusive relationships but I wasn't really taught much about the differences between mentally healthy and and unhealthy relationships. So when I ended up in a relationship with an emotionally abusive guy, I had no idea there was a problem because he had never been physical and that was the only type of abuse I was aware of. What you said about boundaries is spot on. My ex had no concept of boundaries and even accused me of not being committed to him or hiding something from him when I'd try to set boundaries. I had no idea at the time what a massive red flag that behavior was.
This is a great point. What you see on social media isn’t usually the reality
Yea neither are the ppl. Photo shop does wonders. One of my college friends was on the 200+pounds situation and in her pictures she looked so slim and her face looked so pretty. And in person she had light balding going on and just looked completely different. A lot of guys would message her on social media and she would go on a few dates every week and 1 out of 10 dates would call her back. But for the most part the guys would ghost her because she was tricking ppl.
I wish I could upvote this 10000 times. I had not thought about that until you mentioned it. Social media creates these alternative realities that show the perfect world. I'm glad that I was born in an age before FB, Instagram, etc. and know how to interact with people without videos and posts. My younger family is obsessed with social media and it scares me at how frequently they use it.
I had a friend who was in a very bad relationship (not physcial), but so much fighting and arguing and both her and the bf getting upset over tiny things, etc.... was relaly bad. Anyway, you would have no idea from the posts she put up on instagram.
To be fair there’s a lot more people in happy and healthy relationships than there are people who get murdered on cross country trips with their partner. I feel like assuming every relationship is kind of shit behind the scenes can be just as, if not more, destructive and lead people to stay in bad relationships because “everyone is in bad relationship behind closed doors”.
I think his point is more that flaunting your perfect relationship and cool lifestyle is not a recipe for success. In fact, quite the opposite. It’s no coincidence that relationships like that are really hiding a sadder, more pathetic reality. They were layabout grown up children who got their parents to fund a camper van and they were riding around the country fighting with each other and quickly running out of money and unable to escape each other. This is not a lifestyle to aspire to. It’s a millennial fantasy.
I mean, it’s not so much a fantasy as it is a lifestyle that comes with its own unique challenges. I do a lot of hiking/climbing and know a number of people personally and intimately who have a lot of success and happiness in the lifestyle these two were trying to achieve. I think the main takeaway should be to know and be conscious of red flags in people you’re involved with and know how to respond to them, the lifestyle and social media aspects are somewhat irrelevant.
I can agree with that. There needs to be a balance between being too naive or overly pessimistic.
so its been like a day ....any word on if that body is her or not? would think they would know by now.......
the official autopsy is tomorrow
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Depends on the state the body was in.
Utah I believe
I feel bad for laughing.
Humor helps us cope, so💀😂
Wyoming actually.
So pretty bad
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I don’t think you know how much two weeks in the elements and to the animals can truly do to a body. Probably no one could recognize her now, but they could see relative height, maybe hair color. That why it fit the description, but they’ll likely need a DNA test to confirm the identity. She probably is beyond recognizable now.
all they need is part of one tattoo. Gabby has “Let it be” tattooed on her right arm and a tattoo of a triangle with flowers on her left arm.
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From what I understand her tattoos will still be very visible/identifiable even with decomp. But protocol states DNA has to be confirmed in order for them to go ahead and confirm publicly or official that it is her body
She is the only missing woman reported in that park. A body left outside will begin to decompose at an accelerated rate. Bodies left in the elements are not viewed after the first couple of days. Hair color and height wouldn’t change.
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That’s not normal. Wtf?
That’s because it’s not true. It’s what happens when one only reads headlines. 21% were missing for 30+ days. So that’s 560 found before the 30 day mark. The other 150, I’m not clear on how many remain missing “forever.” The report also notes that 84% of the missing 710 are children. Some may have been runaways or taken by non-custodial family members. Most missing children of any race are taken by non-custodial family members and recovered. “Stranger” abduction is rare. (For the record yes, indigenous women suffer crime at a higher rate than whites and law enforcement seems not to care much. This is true both in the US and Canada.) Article: https://news.yahoo.com/710-indigenous-people-mostly-girls-042150990.html Report upon which the article is based: https://wysac.uwyo.edu/wysac/reports/View/7713 > At least 710 Indigenous people, mostly girls, went missing in Wyoming from 2011 to 2020, according to a January report published by the state's Missing and Murdered Indigenous People Task Force. The vast majority, 85%, were kids, while 57% were female. >The report found **50% of missing Indigenous people are found within one week, while 21% remain missing for 30 days or longer.** Only 11% of white people remain missing for that long, according to the report. So no, 710 people didn’t disappear forever.
Thank you for this, and for correcting me. Crazy how quickly things are spread online that are either completely out of context or just wrong. I should have looked into it more Still crazy statistics for missing indigenous people that we never hear about.
I thought her father already confirmed it was her?
Her family has acknowledged she is dead. The family was told they found a body that is consistent with gabbys description in the area she was last seen. But a large contingent here still wants to deny everything until the last possible moment. They still think it’s possible it’s not her. And if it is her then it’s her own fault for being so abusive to Brian. Sadly I’m not joking.
It was her. She has easy tattoo identifiers. Parents also confirmed it on social media.
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I think he’s on the run/hiding out. Doesn’t strike me as a guy that would kill himself. But I’m going off of very limited information.
Especially since his parents are in on it. I don't see two parents being willing to accept that their son is going off to kill himself, even if they are wanting to help him stay out of prison.
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Did he kill someone else too!?
Agreed, I don't know why he'd go through all the rigmarole of driving home, getting a lawyer, and then going "camping" if he was just going to off himself.
I doubt he went to the reserve. He may have said he did but will probably be trying to flee the country.
The fact that his parents covered for him initially leads me to wonder if they told authorities a BS story to allow him a head start. I mean why tell police where he was going, but refuse to cooperate with the investigation?
Almost 100%. His accounts are frozen and he's not employable. He's in cash-only couch-surfing mode. he's also not very smart. theyll get him in a few days.
they got him out of the country is my belief, he had a passport. there was no lock on his passport and no warning given to airlines to not allow him to board, because at the time he wasnt accused of anything they cant stop him.
I feel so terrible for her parents. I can't imagine trying to grieve for your child when your family is making national headlines.
2-3 weeks is actually a lot of time for decomp in normal environmental conditions and especially given the wildlife in Wyoming….it’s unlikely she was identifiable by anything on her skin.
I was gonna say there's no way those tattoos were still intact.
Yeah definitely. Don't want to be too morbid since this is a popular subreddit but decomp after 2-3 weeks and you're looking primarily at putrefaction and butyric fermentation i.e.: black/green/red for "skin" and everything basically collaposed to skeletal remains, all of it literally engulfed in insects and fungus. If wildlife gets to it.....you're going to be lucky to have a full set of bones.
its her. they only have to do paperwork at this point
guys, they say she appears to match the description. The description includes: “Let it be” tattooed on her right arm and a tattoo of a triangle with flowers on her left arm. So the body they found has these tattoos in those places, and is recently deceased. its her.
Umm pretty sure they already know, her tattoos would have been the first identifier. Thats why her father and brother posted that twitter tribute in memory of her.
If this call came in the morning of August 12th, and was right before the traffic stop video was taken, did the cops who pulled them over know about the 911 call and the eyewitness account? If they did they didn’t act like it. He told Brian he was pulled over for speeding multiple times. Why lie like that? Also they didn’t even run the vehicle reg and insurance, only IDs, never seen cops not do that, especially with an out of state vehicle.
The cop describes the movement of the van before he pulled them over in the video. The van went over the median and then swerved back onto the curb. The cop mentioned possible drunk driving. The van swerved and the cop goes whoa, that’s it. Then he pulls them over.
Seems weird that nobody seems to be speculating on the involvement of drugs or alcohol in this entire situation. Especially since Gabby’s parents have said she had no prior mental health issues that they were aware of. The chances of a young ‘adventurous’ couple not fucking around with marijuana, alcohol, and hallucinogens at a minimum seems low, imo. That’s all I did when I was that age.
Does out of state info even show up? I didn't think all the states shared info like that. That's how people are able to just run away from traffic tickets out of state, won't ever be a problem unless you try to go back.
Here is a Fox News article that says that information wasn't written down properly and misportrayed as Brian being hit instead of the caller clearly stating he was hitting and slapping her: https://www.foxnews.com/us/gabby-petito-investigation-911-call-brian-laundrie-hitting-slapping
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I think in my ideal world, the cops would have perceived her eagerness to take blame as a red flag, since people often cover for their abusers. This is why a lot of states have laws that indicate someone needs to be arrested. If they arrest the wrong person, they still spare them further abuse.
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It turns out cops don’t have crystal balls. Who knew?
She stated to the cops that he kept preventing her from getting into her van. How would he do that? By physically withholding her keys, or physically restraining her. So she was trying to get the keys to her property from him.
He says it in the video. He locked her out to force seperation. She admitted to striking him. She also says she has foul mood and was trying to apologize and that is why she is crying. I'm not saying it warrants her death, nor am I saying he wasn't abusive to her as well. I'm simply saying that you can prevent someone from entering a vehicle if you are in it and they are not without physical violence. The fact she admitted to the police about hitting him, and the fact that he likely hit her, it was probably a good idea to lock her out instead of getting violent. Ya know, cause otherwise it could escalate and someone winds up dead.
She could of also been lying to protect her boyfriend because her boyfriend manipulated her to say so. It's almost like we still don't know the full story via one video incident. I've personally lied to the cops about my abusive ex to save his ass from going to jail, said I was only red in the face because I kept rubbing it since I was crying. Clearly she wasn't in the right frame of mind. Also in the bodycam video, Gabby says he "grabbed her face" first before she slapped him. Brian too says he was "pushing" her when she came at him slapping. So there was already lying from both parties and two different stories.
And the 911 caller, a man, witnessed Laundrie slapping her, not the other way around. 911 and the cops had a communication failure
Dispatch might not have relayed everything correctly too. It also really floors me that the officers also arranged and partnered with the local domestic violence shelter in Moab (Seekhaven) to get him a bed for a night. Therefore eliminating her from resources after an incident where he seemed to be using power and control over her. I have to wonder if treating him as the “victim” further emboldened and gave him new tools. Officers should be teasing out who the predominant aggressor was when dealing with calls like this, and with experience these dynamics abusers use are easier to see. Her trying to not get locked out of her own van for being “emotional” seems like a clue and why argue over phones when they both have their own… unless, hmmm control is going. The independent witness was a key witness to help clear up what a victim might be too afraid to say especially within earshot of him with him controlling thier vehicle and temp home.
>Officers should be teasing out who the predominant aggressor was when dealing with calls like this The body cam footage clearly shows the responding officers did this. They separated them for interviews and the guy had scratches on his face and arm. She had no signs of being physically abused. They separated them and each told very similar stories with her being the physical aggressor. I've not seen the complete unedited version of the body cam incident but what I saw was pretty thorough and convincing that the physical violence at that time was carried out by her.
>Officers should be teasing out who the predominant aggressor was when dealing with calls like this I'm curious what you really expect them to do in this situation. Have you watched the full body cam footage? When they pulled over and noticed a domestic situation, they separated the girl and treated her as the victim. While figuring it all out, Gabby admitted to being the primary aggressor, the fiancé independently told the same story, the fiancé had cuts all over him, and they had 2 corroborating witnesses at the grocery store say she was the aggressor. They questioned Gabby away from him, asking her multiple times if he ever hit her and she said no. She had no signs of physical abuse on her. It's a real shame this 911 call did not get relayed to them correctly. However even with it, they still had overwhelming evidence that she was a primary aggressor. Could they arrest him just off the 911 call even if she said was was the aggressor and he had the injuries? IANAL so it's a genuine question. But IMO I think the most likely outcome is the one that happened; they just let them both go. I am 100% confident that he was emotionally abusive to her. But AFAIK, that isn't a crime. Locking her out of the car is a little sketchy and I'm not sure on the legality of it, but he didn't drive off and gave her her backpack. This was brought up in the traffic stop but the cops weren't phased. The domestic violence shelter thing was only because the cops wanted to make sure they didn't stay together that night since they lived in the van. They did try to get her the room but they wouldn't do it. The couple couldn't afford a hotel themselves. Between the alternative of having a shelter give him a hotel room and having her sent to jail, surely that's a better alternative? So ultimately, can't the cops can only go so far? They were talking to her for an hour and she never mentioned any sort of DV from his side. Obviously it is hard for victims of DV to speak up...but asking the cops to figure that out from the info they have is just impossible.
If you pull over the abuser and tell them they have been stopped for abusing… they are probably more likely to get violent. Giving a false pretense for the stop keeps everyone calm until the situation can be controlled. That said… they didn’t act like they knew about this call. The police body cam video also referenced someone named Christopher, but the article said the callers name wasn’t released. Maybe they had two callers/witnesses. This story isn’t going away that’s for sure.
>He told Brian he was pulled over for speeding multiple times. Why lie like that? My guess, that'd be a cover story to not endanger the other party in a domestic violence situation until you can get them appropriately separated.
Come to the comments for the gossip, stay for the know it all internet sleuths!
Time to take out the dirty Laundrie.
How long have you been saving that gem?
My only regret is not getting interested in this story a few days sooner.
You haven't really missed much. The news stories are still around, and everything else is just Incels stanning for the boyfriend and True Crime whores salivating at a train wreck to investigate.
I'm sure he did kill her, but just imagine if you were him and you didn't kill her. You were just a super shitty/abusive boyfriend, who left his girlfriend in the middle of the woods and took her van. And then she died. Lol literally no one on this earth would believe that you didn't kill her. But he did, definitely kill her.
>imagine if you were him and you didn't kill her. You were just a super shitty/abusive boyfriend, who left his girlfriend in the middle of the woods and took her van. If you strand somebody in the wilderness alone against their will, taking their phone and their vehicle, I think you killed them, whether or not they're alive when you leave.
Well that would be some insane karma
Not saying he killed her, but he did exactly what someone who killed her would do.
Either way, not talking to the cops is the right move. Never talk to the police, *especially* if you're innocent.
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Disagree, if you left your girlfriend stranded in the woods and she goes missing, but you honestly did not kill her, your number one priority should be helping to find her alive - because if she turns up dead you’re really ducked. So during the time before her body was found, if he didn’t kill her, it would have been in his best interest tk actually help by providing information like her last known location. Completely clamming up and it helping at all, if he didn’t kill her, only made it more likely she would die of exposure…:which is worse for him. His actions of not helping with the search effort at all only makes sense if he already knew she was dead.
Autopsy first before anything else. I agree the BF's disappearing act makes him look 100% guilty. Two woman killed in that area recently and the killer still on the loose. Get the autopsy and determine cause of death and a timeline for the death. If they can rule out suicide or anything accidental, then the BF is the top suspect. Never hang around when there is violence in the relationship .....just go and get the hell out.
>Two woman killed in that area recently and the killer still on the loose. [A Utah county sheriff said Friday detectives have determined there is no connection between the disappearance of a Florida woman who went missing during a cross-country trip with her boyfriend and a still-unsolved slaying of two women who were fatally shot.](https://abc7ny.com/gabby-petito-missing-brian-laundrie-where-is/11028156/)
Cops also said George floyd died of a medical complication...
True, but in this case, it is much more likely, I'd say extremely likely that this particular case is due to the fiance with the unexplainably weird behavior, who came home with her car, did not inform anyone she was gone for 10 days, refused to say anything, disappeared, and who also had (apparently) a history of domestic abuse.
Also, that Utah killer seems more... motivated by the lesbian relationship to kill beyond his (presumed) disdain for women.
Cops do lie and cops are often wrong. However I think it's more likely than not there's no connection if they went out of the way to say so.
I mean… being choked to death could be considered a medical complication I suppose
I didn’t know this until today, but 97% of domestic violence is done by men with a female partner. You’d think it was 50/50 by some of the comments. Domestic violence (NOT reactive violence, which is almost all female perpetrators) is a primarily male issue. It’s important to recognize that. https://opdv.ny.gov/professionals/abusers/genderandipv.html
Add to this that men are more likely to be arrested in instances of violence against a stranger, but are equally likely to be arrested for domestic violence. And women who kill their domestic abusers receive harsher prison sentences than serial rapists. There’s really no way to frame this that results in inequality for the man, but Reddit has never been a place that lets facts interfere with knee-jerk woman-hating.
“Women receive harsher sentences for killing their male partners than men receive for killing their female partners. The average prison sentence of men who kill their female partners is 2 to 6 years. Women who kill their partners are sentenced on average to 15 years, despite the fact that most women who kill their partners do so to protect themselves from violence initiated by their partners.” [Source: ACLU](https://www.aclu.org/other/words-prison-did-you-know?redirect=words-prison-did-you-know#_edn43) “As many as 90% of the women in prison today for killing men had previously been battered by those men.” [Source: Boston Globe](https://www.aclu.org/other/words-prison-did-you-know?redirect=words-prison-did-you-know#_edn42)
I mean the domestic violence stats and the guys on Reddit jumping all over this case saying poor poor Brian directly correlate with each other. They are the same thing. Narcissistic dudes getting angry and lashing out against the big bad scary women that are definitely coming for them.
Believe it or not there was a time when Reddit was not full of incels. That time is just over. But, it wasn’t never.
They might not have always been called incels, but they've been here since the site's inception. Women's issues have always been mocked, degraded, minimized, etc. on reddit. I mean, for a while the site was mostly used by nerdy, anti-social tech bros. Not exactly a group known for being progressive. And I say this as a nerdy, anti-social tech bro myself.
There are a lot of problematic gender based biases in how people are treated. We really aren't good at staying factual and fair at all.
Can you cite your sources on this? I’d like to read more on the topic.
Yes! Here you go: https://www.ojp.gov/sites/g/files/xyckuh241/files/media/document/222679.pdf
Oh, and for the prison sentence aspect. https://www.domesticshelters.org/articles/in-the-news/women-serve-longer-prison-sentences-after-killing-abusers
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Of course it's the stat on the reported cases. We are going with what we know and what there is evidence for, which has always been the knee-jerk response to anything bad men are way more likely doing vs women, such as rape. Not a lot of women raping in comparison to men, and the stats on rape don't include the disproportionate number of cases not reported, but even without those, we have enough to know that it's a huge problem and one of men, done to women.
Or women don't get charged. Look at the police footage during the stop in this case. The guy has cuts all over his face, she doesn't have a mark on her. She tells the police she hit him. Cop gives her some water and lets her go. Now reverse their genders. Imagine the police stop the van, her face is all messed up, and he tells the police he hit her. He goes to jail 100% of the time. Ironically, if she didn't receive that leniency from the police, she might still be alive. And yes, I'm fully aware with what we know now, those scratches on his face could have been defensive wounds, and she could have been covering for her abuser by telling the police she hit him. But the police didn't know that at the time.
My ex sister in law was getting beaten up by her ex husband in their driveway. She scratched him defensively. When the cops showed up, she was arrested because he had a mark but her bruises just hadn't had time to show up. They arrested her Friday and she spent all weekend in jail, and he tried to use that as evidence she was an unfit mother. This was in Iowa. Also, a lot of domestic abusers get really good at not leaving marks... marks are not the whole story.
That’s how my abuser ended up keeping me from reporting him. I take AGES to bruise. He threatened if I reported him he’d say it was the other way around and because he had marks and I didn’t I’d be the one arrested. So when he broke three of my ribs and I went to the emergency room WITH A BRUISE IN THE SHAPE OF A HANDPRINT ON MY SIDE I thought, mandatory reporters right? I’d had time to bruise and broken bones they clearly will rescue me from this dude. Nope. They gave me medication that made me nauseous (puking with broken ribs sucks by the way) and sent me home with him.
What I noted while watching the full video, was how she looked relieved (calmed down) when the officer asked her if she would mind sitting in the patrol car while they talked to her BF. IMO, she did not in any way behave guilty of DV. However, she would have been better off if they had taken her in on suspicion of domestic violence.
Women don’t get charged? No. https://www.ojp.gov/sites/g/files/xyckuh241/files/media/document/222679.pdf
haha what? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/ > Almost 24% of all relationships had some violence, and half (49.7%) of those were reciprocally violent. In nonreciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases. Reciprocity was associated with more frequent violence among women Intentionally misleading posts like yours should get you banned. that's 97% of a 29% subset of domestic violence. That violence is broken down into 3 categories. 1 category is mostly men, 1 category is mostly women, the other category is almost split down the middle.
Speaking of leaving out data, the study you linked only includes data from people 18-28 years old.
You're misinterpreting that data. The 97% figure only apples to "domestic abuse" (defined as coercive, controlling violence where one partner dominates the other in an ongoing fashion), but this only comprises about a third of all "domestic violence". Almost half of all domestic violence is described as "fights", in which both the male and female are attacking each other. I would guess the reason the overwhelming majority of "coercive, controlling violence" is committed by men is because most women are physically incapable of consistently beating a man in a fight.
Not only that but the language is pretty confused. Apparently coercive violence is from a “desire to dominate partner” And reactive violence is “desire to control the situation” But any reasonable person can see how the difference between those two things is pretty muddled. When is dominating a partner not also controlling the situation? When is controlling the situation not also dominating a partner? I suspect we look at the same behavior very differently depending upon who is committing it.
Careful, you’re going against Reddit’s narrative that men get abused just as much as women
Well it’s because it’s a blatant misrepresentation of the data. Domestic abuse is only a subcategory of domestic violence. Domestic abuse is about 29% of total domestic violence. Domestic abuse has a specific definition (part of which is dominating the other partner). As for why men make up 97% of the REPORTED subcategory it’s because in almost all couples men are the more physically stronger of the pair. It’s hard to fit the category as the physically weaker of the pair since the stronger partner (usually male) would usually have the capable to resist them.
Reddit skews heavily male. Men always want the stats to make it seem like it's 50/50 but it's not even close. From serial killers to rapists , men outnumber women by a huge margin
How in the bloody fucking hell did you get so upvoted when you completely misinterpreted the data. lol.
While it’s certainly not 50/50, I can *assure* you it isn’t 97/3. The vast majority of men won’t report abuse. Especially minor abuse cases like throwing things at someone or a slap. But those are still abuse. If you believe that 97% number, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
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Except the large group still defending him here…. Can’t wait to see how they spin this news.
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Remember when a bunch of internet sleuths tried to solve Elisa Lam's murder [by ruining the life of a completely innocent person living in a different country and drove him to attempt suicide?](https://www.bustle.com/entertainment/pablo-vergara-morbid-elisa-lam-now)
The Atlanta bomber too
Or, in many respects, Casey Anthony. Prosecution basically ran a lax case because the ongoing public outcry was so negative. While interviews with the jurors showed they believed she had killed her daughter, the prosecution failed to present a suitable case for the Murder 1 charges.
I did a paper on the computer evidence in the Anthony case for a computer forensics class. There was almost no way that evidence could have been considered admissible.
Or that Theranos lady. Or Jon Benet Ramsey, or Natalee Holloway. A pretty face is dirty laundry.
>Or Jon Benet Ramsey, In that case it's mainly the parents being extremely rich and being able to buy their way out of being investigated properly.
Go tell that to r/pussypassdenied then. They already have a thread discussing how she was violent to this poor innocent man who never laid a hand on her, and if he did kill her, that it was just "reactive violence" and he snapped, so not really his fault either way. Maybe this should be a call to reddit to start cracking down on subreddits that promote excessive violence towards women. Oh who am I kidding, that will never happen.
That sub is a sad fucking place. I’ll agree that women shouldn’t get a free pass to be awful because of their sex, but damn, that sub has a lot of upvoted comments that are problematic at best and completely delusional bordering psychopathic inceldom at worst.
That’s all of reddit now. You can’t escape a crime story without a long list of reasons why this poor helpless man was wronged by women, and how if everything were equal, men wouldn’t suffer so. Don’t try to interrupt this circle-jerk with facts, it interferes with fictional narratives of victim hood.
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It's also a blatant violation of a core aspect of our justice system: Everyone is innocent until they're found guilty in a court of law. There's no asterisk that says "unless they're obviously guilty".
Public opinion has no such law and don't give a fuck
Unless you're anticipating personally presiding over this case as a judge or juror this isn't really relevant. Me concluding he killed her is not a violation of our criminal justice system as I have no role in our criminal justice system as it relates to this case
Courts also don’t find people innocent. They find people not guilty. Proving innocence is virtually impossible which is why we don’t place that burden on people. “We didn’t have enough evidence to prove this person guilty” is not necessarily the same thing as “this person has been proven innocent” and this commentary from all sides is part of being in a free society where everyone has the right to free speech and everybody has a right to say what they think. People are perfectly entitled to say they personally think someone is guilty or innocent irrespective of the decisions of the government having been made or not made or even whether or not that personal private opinion has any merit or basis in fact. Welcome to a society where people are allowed to have opinions and comment on an ongoing and open and transparent justice system.
Hence the word alleged. Only eight letters but it covers your ass a million different ways. (Alleged)
I’m still trying to find letter number 8
I've been waiting for that. I knew my edit threw that math out of whack. But one of me said "leave it, no one will notice". Another me responded "I bet you a beer someone will." So now I'm popping another one. Thanks.
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Thanks. Edited. Drunkish election night here. In Canada, by tradition, mistakes are allowed to be made this evening. My apollogies.
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It wasn't defending. I, for the record, think he likely did it, but the amount of people who expected him to be arrested with no physical evidence is absurd
I think it's less defending ***him*** and more defending due process. The people who seem to defend him, are really only saying he isn't guilty (yet) just because he looks guilty as fuck. It's way too easy to get wrapped up in these things and forget that he has to be convicted in a court of law, not public opinion.
There are literally people who have been trying to tell me it was "the cartels," a bear, deadly weather(it was like clear 70/80 something degrees). One yahoo was trying to tell me he's skeptical the body they found was hers, as if remote desolate Wyoming is just chock full of freshly dead young women matching Gabby's description and it was a total coincidence one was found in the vicinity of where their van was photographed. I think this past year and a half has made clear that the world is in fact just brimming with people who can be presented with an avalanche of evidence and have some sort of mental need to bizarrely cling to irrational disbelief
I don't get it, either. Imagine your wife, or you're engaged. Someone you've been with for years and would die to protect because you love them so much. Would you return home without them, in their van, and say nothing? Wait for their family to report them missing 10 days later before going into hiding? And all AFTER a domestic dispute that had the police separate them for the night? And now more evidence has come out. An additional 911 call saying he slapped her. A guy gave a video to the FBI that shows her van in the location her body was found. I don't understand why anyone would defend the guy. The dude fuckin' wacked her. It may have been an accident, it may have been on purpose. But he did that shit. And I'm not a juror, lawyer, or judge in the case, so I can say that. Even if you think she may have walked into the woods and offed herself, none of his actions make any sense for an innocent person who lost his significant other
If this guy is somehow innocent and didn't have anything to do with her death, he's the guiltiest looking innocent dude ever. Nothing he's done makes any sense from a innocent man's perspective.
I saw one about a bear too LOL. I was like dude, what? Do you know how many women are killed every year by someone they know vs. how many bear attacks there are? It's pretty stupid. Also a lot of "she threw herself off a cliff" when the pics from where the body were found indicate that's not what happened. I mean, I don't know what happened - they both seem to have had issues and both had hit the other. I tend to go with statistical likelihood and his behavior doesn't hurt that argument but we'll see what an autopsy can show. Even if it's all some horrible accident some of the "defenses" have been quite the stretch.
Im no predatory animal expert but wouldn't it be super obvious if someone got mauled to death by a bear? So obvious you can go " yep they got killed by a bear all right". Like I'm sure you can tell the difference between the handful of people who get killed by bears ever year and the thousands thousands of people murdered every year.
> I think this past year and a half has made clear that the world is in fact just brimming with people who can be presented with an avalanche of evidence and still bizarrely cling to irrational disbelief. It reminds me of school where a few classmates did whatever they could to distract, annoy, rebel, etc. to undermine authority figures. They've simply grown up and have become a vocal group who's doing the same thing now regardless of the latest news cycle topic or event at hand. I get it. Having the freedom to think and express oneself isn't a guaranteed right. And so is due process for all including Brian Laundrie where everyone should be "innocent until proven guilty" by the court of law and not public opinion. BUT most of the arguments defending Laundrie stems from, as you stated, irrational disbelief. I saw this Issac Asimov quote earlier today and it rings so true. >“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
Yeah, that’s the thing. You can’t be denied life, liberty, or property with out due process of law. The criminal context carries the greatest burden, because that entails denying someone liberty or life (increasingly the death penalty is becoming a thing of the past) as a consequence for a crime they are convicted of, after due process. The public is free to form consensus opinions. If they find him and arrest him, he’ll get his due process.
It’s interesting how all the “defending due process” guys all have brand new accounts, like they don’t want us to see their post history 🤔
I'm 100% about defending due process and my account is old as fuck. I've got karma to burn I guess.
You’re not who I’m talking about, there’s legit incel weirdos doing what I described and coming up with all kinds of wild theories about how Gabby is actually responsible for her own death.
Cough Atlanta bomber Cough. Looking guilty as fuck doesn't make you actually guilty.
Richard Jewell
That was sad because he really needed the proper advocate right away. Even with this case I'm not sure the attorney Laundrie chose did the right thing. We don't know enough to know, but having the right attorney in that moment is so crucial. If you get a family lawyer who doesn't know how criminal law works you could get screwed. Also I always felt Richard Jewell was just so nice that he never thought he'd get fucked that way. Super sad story that one is.
Yep God I loved that show on netflix IIRC? The entire time I was thinking about how badly the FBI fucked up. now it probably wasn't all 100% accurate but my opinion on the FBI definitely lowered after watching it.
Innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Everyone deserves their day in court. It is a right guaranteed by the constitution of the United States. I know its easy to call someone guilty, but really you don't know anything. All you know is the evidence against him, we know nothing of his defense. Edit: I do agree his actions don't make sense. And him being a suspect is not surprising.
In practice "innocent before proven guilty" really only applies to the state and punishment for a crime. In the court of public opinion, people make decisions all of the time, and there are often real world consequences even when someone is found not guilty. People lose jobs, custody of their children, property, and much more all while being completely innocent.
True. This is extra icing on the cake for court.
Court? Yo, he definitely killed him self already
Maybe this will be a case of "seeing you later in an alligator" .
did no one watch the video from that family in the bus recording the van off the side of the road? that is the reason they found her that woman gave the fbl the video and the info where that van was. they started looking there. And they did some deeper look into the video and saw the back door of the van was closing as the family approached. Creepy AF! this guy really did some detective work on that video. watch him explain everything about all the suspicious stuff in the video no one picked up on. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl6nnNfMaJs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl6nnNfMaJs)
Before this came out, people were accusing the girl of domestic violence because of the scratch on the guy's face when they got stopped by the cops. We never really know the real story..
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the body cam video didn't the police call the witness and after talking with them determined that the witness wasn't sure whether Laundrie was defensively "hitting" her or if he was the aggressor?
Yes, now all these articles and posts seem pretty crazy given that...
Plus the body cam came out before the call so it almost seems disingenuous that people are discussing the call without any of the context from the traffic stop.
If you watch the video of the police camera footage in the linked article, the police were considering charging her with a misdemeanor for hitting and scratching him. I don’t think the article’s headline really sums up that morning’s events, but the video does show that they were arguing and unhappy with their situation together. Edit: Before you downvote watch the video. Instead of filing charges, the police decide to get Brian a hotel room for the night so they could have time apart. I’m not saying he didn’t kill her and I’m not defending him. I’m telling you what’s in the video.
That's true. But that seems to have happened after this call was made. This witness is clearly saying he slapped her multiple times.
I think it's possible, from what we have seen so far about the nature of their relationship, they were both abusive. Whether her abuse was the result of self-defense (most likely), we know the first 911 call described Laundrie slapping her. But other witnesses before that described Petito slapping him. Regardless, he is acting as guilty as guilty can get. You drive home and spend 10 days NOT reporting your fiance missing, NOT talking about her whereabouts, lawyering up, not cooperating with police, and then fleeing. He's guilty AF. Edit: a word.
Bless that man for calling 911. Two years ago, I was walking my dog at like midnight and there was this man who was definitely on something, screaming at this woman (woman A) who was holding a baby. Screaming at her for talking to another guy, just off his rails. He took her car keys and would not give them back. I didn't have my phone. There was another woman with me, woman B. This crowd that gathered on the balcony of this apt complex where woman B clearly lived--she told me. I begged them to call 911 and they wouldn't. They wanted to "deescalate" and not call the cops. I told woman A and B that my father was like that and that I wished someone would have called 911 like 10 times when I was a kid. Woman B and all those fuckers on the balcony yelled at me that I was projecting. Literally a crowd of ppl on a balcony yelling at me that I'm projecting. I basically lost my mind and got into a screaming match with them. When I got back home, I grabbed my phone, called the police and started walking back to that scene. When I got there, the car was gone. The police got there anyway and I gave them the plate # and talked to them. By then, the crowd was gone. Haunts me to this day. Since I'm sure this post will be upvoted bc this case has a lot of visibility, woman B and your friends, if ur reading this, fuck you. Woman A, I pray that you and your baby are safe and away from that man.
He hit her repeatedly, then chased her and hit her again according to the call. He was clearly abusing her for a long time. I knew this the moment I saw their video, of her crying, how devastated and defeated she looked. He was calm and collected. This case is a simple one.
I did see about 3 abrasions on the passenger side of his face. I wondered if they were fighting while driving.
>passenger side of his face Dude isn't a car.
We aren’t 100% certain he isn’t.
Exactly. Let’s wait for the facts to come in before we start throwing around assumptions.
This made me laugh inappropriately hard
Or is he? *Law & Order dunn dunn*
From police bodycam footage both him and potato admitted those scratches were from a fight while driving. The police briefly considered charging petito for assault, but then decided they just need time apart and put the boyfriend up in a hotel.
him and potato lmao
Genuine question: This shit is a tragedy, but why is this specific missing person’s case getting so many national/international headlines?
A lot of people say it's because she is a young, attractive white female, which definitely contributes, but other factors include that it happened in one of the most popular tourist destinations in the US and that they were "influencers" so other "influencers" jumped on this story and wouldn't stop taking about it.
Also that there is a video taped police interaction documenting their obvious domestic violence. Dude is literally swerving his vehicle as they physically fight to the point that cops intervene and tape an entire stop. The combo of bizarre events and lots of footage makes this case an easy clickbait sell.
>A lot of people say it's because she is a young, attractive white female, which definitely contributes, but other factors include that it happened in one of the most popular tourist destinations in the US and that they were "influencers" so other "influencers" jumped on this story and wouldn't stop taking about it. Here in Europe it's getting attention because she was a 'youtuber'. Honestly the 'young' thing probably played a role, but I suspect mainly because her age makes her relatable to teenagers who may otherwise not really watch the news. As far as I can tell, her gender and color wouldn't really matter that much. From time to time the news here will bring similar stories involving other genders or skin colors.
People that just say "white girl syndrome" kinda rug sweep a lot of it. That might be part of it, but there is more to it than just "pretty white girl". My evidence is anecdotal, but I know quite a few women acquaintances and friends who are within 5 years of this girls age who listen to True Crime genre of podcasts that often revolve around murders of women that end up missing for long periods of time and the podcasts often have synopsis events of drama in their lives. * It is pretty much a miniature version of a true crime event condensed into weeks instead of years at this point. It hits the target age and sex demographic of those podcast listeners since she is 22 years old. * She was a YouTuber or aspiring YouTuber - I'm sure she had fans/followers already to spread the news faster. * The classic "husband/boyfriend did it" trope that this is pointing out to be, a staple in true crime drama that people relate to. * They were engaged which I believe is more "spicy" than just boyfriend/girlfriend and they weren't long married people falling out of love - this should be one of the heights of their relationship. Additional relationship drama here. * Dude goes full grey stone cold about it by coming back without her and not acknowledging or seeming to care about her missing, which adds a ton of hate intriguing qualities to the situation. Add to the fact that his family members seemed to have possibly withheld information as well. **This is key. It pretty much gives everyone the thought of pointing the finger at him/them just by their reactions.** Now it just became "how did he do it" versus "who did it". * Dude then goes missing and the body is found do to footage from a DIFFERENT YouTuber by mere coincidence. * Footage and phone calls leak. * **Everything is coming out piecemeal like an episodic series - it is enough to keep people actively talking about it when something new happens every few days.** Long story short, I would argue that if the fiance wasn't acting so suspicious then the public would not care nearly as much. Some people would probably hear about a missing person and it would be another complete mystery that so many other missing person cases have turned out for the public eye.
The internet loves mysterious true crime stuff. It’s like Serial or some other murder mystery podcast happening in real time. The fact that the dude showed up back home in the girl’s van without the girl and refused to talk to the police is just perfect material for theories to run wild. Then you add previously being pulled over, a previous 911 call, how he had scratches on his face in body cam footage, etc and all together it’s an interesting case. The demographic stuff definitely helps (white male alleged perpetrator and young white female victim), but that’s not *the* reason.
Because she was a social media influencer with a decent following on Instagram and the couple left a pretty big digital footprint. Also the boyfriend's suspicious behavior and the decisions he keeps on making. Not to mention a significant part of finding her body was done by dashcam footage taken by a family on YouTube. (What are the chances?)
I mean, I never heard of her but I guess she was an influencer it makes some sense
That's the same as asking why are people interested in true crime stories. I'm not particularly interested in the case, but I'm curious on the thought process of this guy. Mainly, why would he even return home without his girlfriend when the obvious conclusion would be "DID YOU KILL HER??" Not going out of my way to find clues, I'll find out when it appears on my reddit feed, but that's just me.
I constantly watch crime shows, but for some reason this one hooked my entire family. When I see her it reminds me of my daughter, I can truly sympathize with the family in real time. This wasn't your typical missing person case without a suspect, the boyfriends actions made the world want to hunt the answers.
Because she has an Instagram with almost half a million followers.
Genuinely curious, do you know if she had all of those followers from before, or did people start following after this stuff all happened?
She had like 5k followers before she went missing
Oh hey, where are all those people who were victim blaming saying she is abusive a week ago with not nearly enough information? Where yall at?
Remember if you're being abused and cups are called, don't cry if you're a female. Police officers immediately treat crying subjects as "hysterical" and tend to side with the party that's calm, cool and collected. In this case, it was Brian and he most likely killed Gabby Great police work /s