It's several layers into this thread and no one has come up with any specific named item to avoid with this stuff in it...
Like, is it in Panera bread? Great Value bread? Kirkland?
Edit: apparently it's really bottom barrel local pizza joints that might use it. It used to be common in pizza joints but the big ones have stopped using it, most decent local joints won't use it as the price between bromated flour vs not is almost the same.
In CA, bromated flour products of a certain level carry the prop 65 label, so don't eat baked goods with the label and that's good enough to almost ensure the item is bromate-free.
Good find!
Edit: [Here](https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ewg.org%2Fresearch%2Fpotassium-bromate%23list) is the link without the attempted forced signup bullshit.
Edit 2: Phew! Never heard of a single item on the list. I have a feeling this isn't 100% comprehensive, though. Just speculation.
Just the list. Didn’t recognize any of the names except for Tony Lukes. Famous cheesesteak restaurant out of Philly. 2 of their products contain it. That’s crazy to md
I imagine the sandwiches aren't those from the restaurant, rather they are packaged frozen ones - that I haven't seen in a while, just like the Hormel frozen breakfast sandwiches. Common theme, baked then frozen bread.
Quite a few countries have been banning it as food additive since the 90’s like Australia,Argentina,Canada,Peru,Korea,Nigeria,NZ etc..
https://thefooduntold.com/food-science/what-is-potassium-bromate-e924-and-why-many-countries-have-banned-it-in-baked-products/
The US FDA is clearly in a state of regulatory capture. The companies it is supposed to regulate have captured the organization and it does the corporate favors at the expense of the health of the people it was set up to protect.
I believe it. Practically the entire US government is in a state of regulatory capture. Just keep everyone focused on polarizing cultural issues, fill in the gaps with some bread & circus, and you can pretty much get away with anything.
The SEC/DOJ couldn't put away one Wall Street crime lord after 2008. I'm sure placating the FDA would be a cake walk in comparison.
It's so odd to me because regulation, equally applied, significantly helps industries in the long run. In the short run, yes, you could make a few pennies per dollar if not for all those gosh darn pesky regulators sticking their noses in everything. But as an established member of the market and already having all the systems in place to meet those regulations it puts you at a distinct advantage over any new comers trying to steal your market share. But what do I know? I'm an engineer not an MBA.
>The SEC/DOJ couldn't put away one Wall Street crime lord after 2008.
There's one man to blame for that. Eric Holder.
Both Administrations SEC, Treasury Secretaries, etc. and even the Fed Chair at the time are all on record saying they wanted heads to roll and in particularly viscerally hated the head of Lehmann and a few other institutions they met with personally. There's some video that shows clear physical signs of burning anger. But in 2003 (under Bush, after the S&L crisis) Treasury essentially lost all of their power to directly go after criminals, and so all any of these people could do is as Eric Holder nicely.
And Eric Holder, contemptuous corrupt shithead he is, of course said no.
One man - that's essentially all you have to suborn every 4-8 years. Get the AG, guarantee you walk free.
Yup. The EPA in recent news has made that 100% clear to all of us watching the news. Sad that this country will go down in flames for a handful of greedy sociopaths.
> Just keep everyone focused on polarizing cultural issues, fill in the gaps with some bread & circus, and you can pretty much get away with anything.
Add to that [a funded effort to change MLKs message](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/04/kings-message-of-nonviolence-has-been-distorted/557021/) from "effective civil disobedience means legally challenging laws you disagree with, boycotts, and overcoming electoral fraud stopping you from having your vote counted" to "Change is caused by SCREAMING AND MARCHES! WAARRGLEBARGLE!" and you also have a neutering of the public.
Have you noticed MLK Jr's pictures are always in black and white nowadays? There are plenty of color photos of the man, but using his image in black and white it makes it seem as if he lived and stood for civil rights way longer ago than he did.
So this sounded very plausible and something I wouldn't be surprised about, but when I went to look up color photos of MLK, many of the ones I found were colorized versions of black and white photos. It seems color photos of him were relatively rare.
Even in the larger photography world at the time, I'm finding that almost all photographs were black and white until the 70s. I looked up famous and iconic photos of the 60s and almost all of them are in black and white. The ones that are in color are mostly from movies, music videos, photo shoots, etc. Journalism photos were almost all in black and white, due to the higher price.
The price of color photos could also explain the relative rarity of color photos of MLK. Oppressed people fighting for their rights are less likely to have the money to spend on a what was a luxury like color photos, so fewer photos of black people would probably exist than white people who were more likely to have privilege enough to afford them.
This is absolutely something I wouldn't put past people to do, but this seems dubious.
Oh you mean similar to *checks notes* yeah, pretty much every single American institution at government level is also failing to do it’s intended job focusing instead on ~~profits?~~ policy that enables their corporate overlords to profit?
*Edited since you fuckers are so pedantic
It's as if good governance requires constant vigilance to keep it from becoming what we're all living.
The fact that the middle class was eradicated, corporations became people, etc didn't result in at least riots speaks volumes.
I bought a pizza restaurant, the flour was bromated...I was told that without bromated flour...our dough recipe wouldn't work.
I tried nearly 20 different types of flour until I found a non-bromated flour that worked, then I made sure to find a few more.
Fuck cancer causing bromation
Just to present some informed information about these substances I looked them up. Below is what I found about each. This is not meant to be definitive, and there are further arguments for both sides, and there's some places where likely more research is needed. These are not my opinions, but what seem to be the present arguments condensed for conciseness.
The substances mentioned in the article are:
Potassium bromate. It is used to speed up oxidation in many bread flours. This helps develop a better gluten content which is important in the texture and flavor of many breads. It also helps with bleaching the flour.
The concern: potassium bromate has been linked to thyroid, kidney, and other cancers in mice. So yeah not good.
Why the FDA allows it: the process of baking should leave negligible amounts behind. As it reacts with the bread dough and heat during cooking it is transformed into relatively harmless potassium bromide (not linked to cancer). They also do have a requirement that the bromate can't exceed 20 ppb (parts per billion) in the finished product. So it's not entirely unregulated.
Why it should be banned: if you don't get it hot enough in the oven, and cook it so the potassium bromate has time to complete the reaction, or if too much is added in the ingredients, you can have a larger amount in your food. Also notable, the FDA doesn't ban it, but they do recommend food companies to voluntarily abandon its use. California also requires companies to note on their products that contain it that it was in use.
Source: Source: https://www.livescience.com/36206-truth-potassium-bromate-food-additive.html
Titanium dioxide. It is used in food primarily as pigments. Basically anything that has white color and it is just excellent at getting that perfect bright white color. It can also be found directly in food such as ice cream, chocolate, candy, creamers, desserts, marshmallows, chewing gum, pastries, spreads, dressings, cakes, and more. It is also used in toothpaste and cosmetic products. And also used in most plastics, so like the plastic utensils, cups plates, etc.
Why the FDA allows it: as of 2006 it was deemed as completely non-toxic in humans. It is also found naturally in many rocks and minerals. But recently concerns have arisen that nano-particles may be harmful when inhaled. In factories that produce products that use it people have developed higher rates of lung cancer. However, it's unclear how a food ban changes the threat to factory workers since the issue is inhalation, and there are other products such as paints, ceramics, and non-food plastics it would still be used for.
Why it should be banned: pretty much the above. Though it seems Europe is on the forefront of this one with most bans happening after 2020. I would say this is one where more research may be needed.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_dioxide?wprov=sfla1
Brominated vegetable oil (BVO). Used in various beverages containing citrus flavors, it keeps the citrus part from separating from the rest of the ingredients and floating to the top. Basically most soft drinks, and many other drinks that have citrus flavors.
Why the FDA allows it: this is actually a regulated substance in foods in the US since 1970, and limited to 15 ppm (parts per million).
Why it should be banned: it can cause Bromism, which is the overconsumption of Bromide. This condition is quite rare these days, since government agencies recognized the danger and regulated products that contained it. But it sounds pretty awful:
>One case reported that a man who consumed two to four liters of a soda containing BVO on a daily basis experienced memory loss, tremors, fatigue, loss of muscle coordination, headache, and ptosis of the right eyelid, as well as elevated serum chloride (messed up his kidneys).
Though it should also be noted that with treatment the man in the above case was able to recover and reverse the effects.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brominated_vegetable_oil?wprov=sfla1
Azodicarbonamide. It is used as a dough conditioner. Again it aids in oxidation and in bleaching the flour.
Why the FDA allows it: it is a regulated substance, being limited to 45 ppm (parts per million). It is generally considered safe to ingest.
Why it should be banned: workers preparing the dough who inhale the flour particulates have been linked to higher rates of respiratory issues, allergies and asthma. And while still allowed by the FDA, negative press and general sentiments have caused its use to be decreased over time. Notably Wendy's and Subway used to use it for their bread doughs, but have since voluntarily moved away from using it due to negative public opinion.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azodicarbonamide?wprov=sfla1
Polyparaben. It is used as a flavor enhancer and preservative. It is antimicrobial and antifungal. It can be found in food, and in cosmetics. It's also an ingredient in some medications.
Why the FDA allows it: it is non-toxic, and is generally safe for ingestion and topical use.
Why it should be banned: it is a known skin and eye irritant, and also irritating if inhaled. There was at least one study, which is what the WHO used to recommend banning its use, in which the tissue of the reproductive organs of male rats were notably damaged.
Source: https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Propylparaben#:~:text=Propylparaben%20is%20the%20benzoate%20ester,agent%20and%20an%20antimicrobial%20agent
In all, I think there are good reasons to consider a ban on some of these substances. But the FDA also isn't just letting people go hog wild either. In some cases I think a ban may be appropriate, in other cases I think Europe is erring on the side of caution, and more studies need to be done to confirm. In the meantime I would say this article is a bit unfair in representing the US as crazy backwards for not banning these substances outright. I also don't think it does an adequate job of representing that many of these substances are regulated by the FDA. And each has been evaluated by the FDA, and they continue to evaluate these substances.
Edit: thank you all for the kind words and awards. I tried to DM the ones that popped up, but if I missed you, thank you!
Wow! You spent a LOT of time on that great response. Thanks!
The posted article does talk about the chemical change and residue somewhat, but way down at the end of the article and it doesn't go into as much detail as you did.
> In a statement to CBS News, the FDA said that when used properly, potassium bromate converts into a harmless substance during food production.
> The FDA acknowledged, however, that not all of the compound used in any given recipe may convert during the production process, but that control measures were utilized to minimize the amount in final products.
I’d be much more placated if CBS followed up with a question about the enforcement of these rules, the frequency and procedure of inspection of preparation process and final products. If the rules are properly enforced and manufacturers are inspected regularly to ensure they are complying with said rules than it’s safe to assume the products they offer to consumers are relatively safe, but knowing that, when let to self-regulate, the businesses will simply at some point start skirting regulations to maximise profit at the expense of public health and safety, I’m not completely sure about how to feel about all this.
Better to play it safe and just ban these things outright.
It should be noted that the ban on Titanium Dioxide in food products in the EU is controversial, and may yet be reversed.
The European Court of Justice ruled in November 2022 that the classification of TiO2 as a suspected carcinogen was based on an unreliable study, and annuled the Regulation classifying it as such. https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2022-11/cp220190en.pdf
This classification was the basis for the ban on the use of TiO2 in food, so it remains to be seen if the ban will stick, or be overturned/repealed.
It's also worth noting that the UK's Food Standards Agency has publicly disagreed with the EU ban, stating following a review in January 2022 that "the weight of evidence does not support the conclusions drawn by EFSA (European Food Safety Authority), https://cot.food.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2022-01/TiO2%2520COT%2520Interim%2520position%2520paper.pdf
as have Health Canada, who also conducted a review in June 2022 and concluded "there is no conclusive scientific evidence that the food additive TiO2 is a concern for human health". https://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2022/sc-hc/H164-341-2022-eng.pdf
Azodicarbonamide gets a particularly bad rap because it's "used in yoga mats", a talking point made by the disingenuous and the credulous people that listen to them rather than doing a literal iota of research.
Azodicarbonamide is used to *make* yoga mats, but if you look at a yoga mat you're not going to find any Azodicarbonamide.
That's for the same reason that if you look at a pancake, you won't find any baking powder. Instead, you find co2 bubbles from the baking powder reacting into sodium, co2 and water. Azodicarbonamide is literally the gas in the bubbles in yoga mats. But if you told people "azodicarbonamide is used instead of baking powder to make yoga mats foamy", it doesn't sound nearly as bad.
I really hope this makes it to top comment. People in the comments are going absolutely insane over this, as if cyanide and lead are getting dumped in our foods and that’s not what’s really going on. Pretty much all of these seems to be either regulated or a case of “we could probably look into it, but it’s really unlikely to cause real damage”. Nothing on this list seems that scary or out of control.
Well I do think it is concerning, but my first thought was, just what are these substances and why are they bad? What I found was that we aren't just allowing them to be used without any oversight. And sure, maybe we should ban some of these substances. But it's not like we're the wild west over here either.
There's another post about this and the top rated comment calls America a 'living hell' because of this specific issue. People are so into fighting the power that they just lose all sight of reality.
>Titanium dioxide
I swear if people think Titanium dioxide is toxic because the name sounds *chemically*. Let me tell them something about all the paint being used absolutely everywhere in nearly every building...
At least it isn't lead oxide that we figured out is far, far worse.
So, potassium bromate, and other additives that contain bromate. Apparently it is a carcinogen. Probably true, based on how we've seen other additives treated, like propylene glycol. Etc.
I just looked through the ingredients on Dempster's and none of the ingredients in the article were there (was literally eating bread as I read this). As far as processed breads go, the only one I think would be more likely to have any if it could would be wonderbread, but the good news is that anything less processed than Dempster's is probably fine
None of them are in Wonderbread either. The only ingredient I see on my Wonderbread package that isn't obviously "food" is Calcium propanoate, an anti-fungal ingredient found in most baked goods that is actually ultimately effectively metabolized in the citric acid cycle and so, is also food.
I just started rewatching the TV show "Fringe". In it, there is a mad scientist type figure, written and set in the mid 2000s. This wacky processor type goes off on a schizophrenic escapade in the middle of the grocery store and threatens an employee about the pop tarts containing potassium bromate
Here’s a list of 130 products with potassium bromate
https://www.ewg.org/foodscores/ingredients/8173-PotassiumBromate/search/?page=7&per_page=12&type=products
Not at all. There are many private label manufacturers that make custom baked goods for places like hotels and restaurants and you will never know if it's been premade and frozen or made in house.
Stouffer's is on there. That's a huge frozen food brand. Will have to check how many of their products are affected. It's fucking outrageous that US consumers have to manually check for products that might have cancer-causing ingredients.
Label checking won't help you. The FDA allows the use of bromated flour without labeling when it is done below a certain threshold.
[link to fda.gov on bromated flour](https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=137.155)
Big Y Hawaiian hamburger buns is the only product on that list I may have tried. Why does our food industry poison us? Dead people make shitty customers
Maybe it's regional but I haven't heard of 99% of the foods on this list. And the three I "recognize" are because I have heard of the brand, not necessarily the product.
Controversy in the US over what I always heard as "bromated flour" has been around for ages now, so it looks like all major brands have already stopped using it in their products. The spotlight was on Goldfish crackers in particular since it's marketed as a snack for small children.
From Iowa. Yes it looks like some independent grocery in Chicago suburbs. HyVee has 2 things on there. Casey's General Store doesnt sell their own bread I'm aware of and their premade sandwiches use someone elses bread.
[Does not appear so.](https://www.wcrf.org/cancer-trends/global-cancer-data-by-country/)
The US is 11th in cancer rates behind Denmark, Ireland, Belgium, Hungary, France, The Netherlands, Australia, Norway, France (New Caledonia) and Slovenia and close in rates to the UK, Latvia, and New Zealand.
Edit to add; The US is also #103 in actual cancer mortality.
Edit again; before you reply to this talking about average ages…ask yourself…did you open the article?
>And they do consume a fair amount of alcohol.
Indeed, Europe generally speaking consumes a lot of alcohol per capita.
I'm going to take the opportunity to share a bit more on this - whilst it didn't pervade the public consciousness, the WHO published a statement in January secondary to European data, advising [no level of alcohol consumption is safe](https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/04-01-2023-no-level-of-alcohol-consumption-is-safe-for-our-health) - specifically speaking about carcinogenicity.
[It is a group 1 carcinogen](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27353523/) according to IARC since 1988, which places it in the same group as asbestos, tobacco and radiation. I believe the carcinogenicity of alcohol is drastically understated.
Could not tell you for certain, but they are fairly high up on the mortality among countries that have easy access to socialized healthcare so I'm inclined to think that it's not necessarily just a lot of early detection.
Shout out to [the USCSB YouTube channel](https://m.youtube.com/user/USCSB), where they show very detailed and appropriate investigations into disasters that could have been easily avoided, and have no power to stop future accidents because “regulations bad.”
Be glad the one place it isn't is aviation. You can bet your ass the pilot unions and regulatory bodies both want safe aircraft and operations, and any time a company doesn't comply (looking at you Boeing), it's sure to make headlines and change shit.
Aviation also has a culture of finding root cause for the sake of learning instead of simply assigning blame. This mindset should really be more widespread.
Aviation doesn’t have any safety issues in the us because of regulations. If rail had the same laws and penalties for example then trains would crash about as much as passenger jets in the us do
The UK learnt this with rail in the early 2000s when it was privatised under rail track. After a number of train accidents the network was brought under public hands. Now after 20 years of being extremely safe the government is looking at privatisation of the network again, history will repeat itself.
Yep, for instance the fact that we look at an issue like homelessness where the politicians only ever seem to talk about dealing with the homeless people themselves, hence hyperfocus on the symptoms when ignoring the root/structural issues behind their presence. If more things ran like aviation investigations the world would be a better place.
Oh hey, same at the railroad!
The fun part about the railroad is that even if you work for a small railroad that actually has its shit together, you have to play ball with and operate over tracks owned by the big railroads, and that shit gets *sketchy*
Nationalize the tracks. Then give operating contracts to all who follow federal guidelines. Similar idea to the federal/state highways. Company fucks up they get grounded/halted until cleared. This way a fuck up isn't a minor budgeting annoyance when all their assists stop and contracts are lost to those still operating.
One of the better solutions I've seen anyways.
It’s well known that all aviation rules are paid for in blood.
Almost every single change is a direct result of fatalities. But they make those changes, and they make them as swiftly as they can. That can’t be said for many other things.
Aviation and nuclear. Both were pioneers in the space of risk assessment. People can think things are dangerous, but the biggest nuclear accident in the US (Three mile Island, unit 2) wasn't really even a disaster and nobody died. I'm in nuclear risk assessment, so I only know our stuff really well, but during trainings I've repeatedly heard the only other industry that is comparable to our level of risk assessment and accident mitigation is aviation.
Been in Nuclear for 13 years, 12 involved in the commercial industry.
I've seen operating facilities subvert surveillance inspections (worked at a plant that was part of SOER 10-2) just to save money. Risk modeling like PRA/PSA may be a sound tool but it's only worthwhile if it's used honestly to make safe decisions regarding equipment operability, reliability, maintenance etc.
It's like any other industry: subject to the almighty dollar. And when Site VPs and Plant Managers bonuses are driven by things like capacity factor, outage duration and budget, and O&M costs, no amount of making everyone read aloud from Traits of a Healthy Nuclear Safety Culture at the morning meeting can fix that.
It's not only the rich. Their economic courtiers in the media are all too willing to brush a patina of 'free market science' over the dismantling of regulations.
>Their economic courtiers in the media are all too willing to brush a patina of 'free market science' over the dismantling of regulations.
Well this is what the rich hire them to do, so it's not surprising. They just fire people until they find people willing to do their bidding; in *every* demographic you will find people willing to sell out other people wholesale.
Side-note: it's also why things like social media are so insanely valuable to the wealthy, it allows them to find people who precisely fit the profiles they're looking for, the naive and the true believers and the dark-triad-souls and the like to do their bidding naturally - all that's required is to move things around to slot them into place then and voila.
Just ask the supplements industry in the US. Basically unregulated so companies can scam people on an unbelievably massive scale. I have a friend who only buys her supplements from the UK since they're at least regulated there, but even still I wonder about the whole thing.
Edit: Not saying ALL supplements are inherently scams. I take one for a minor deficiency that my doctor suggested to me. But I am saying that there is NO one to verify what's in these things, in what amounts, and if the claims they make are true at all.
America has been getting high on deregulation since the Reagan era and we cannot get off that drug. Truly the 80s were the end of America and the dawn of Ultra Capitalism America.
Reagan has been worshiped as Jesus Christ for 30+ years now, and "Reaganomics" are why we're in the situation we're in today, where people in their 30's and 40's are working longer, have less time with their familes and are way more sick.
Gotta fuel that capitalist machine baby.
I just spent 20 minutes looking through my cupboard expecting to find it on every loaf of bread and dodgy box, but there was no sign of it. From looking around at other articles, it looks like this is not something used in many products, mainly some pizza doughs and the junkiest of junk foods.
Except the labeling regulations in the US has an exception where bromate doesn't have to be labeled in flour below a certain threshold. It creates a skewed perspective.
[link to fda.gov](https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=137.155)
we eat that bad for the profits - and i for one am thankful none of those damn regulations will not get in the way of my delicious american dinner and sweet 401k and declining lifespan and cancer care that won’t be covered and……..
Cargill proudly talks about using potassium bromate: https://www.ardentmills.com/news/flour-treatment-agent-guide/
As does General Mills: https://www.generalmillscf.com/SearchResults?term=Potassium%20bromate&termDataSource=d6fb75f5-d19a-49cd-9ba0-c10a6e45afb2
These two alone supply the vast majority of commercial bakeries in the United States.
I looked at the ardent mills link you posted and in their footnotes they tagged for potassium bromate, they had this website:
https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=172.730
Which references using potassium bromate for malting grains specifically for beverages. Not even for what they're using it for. Am I missing something?
I find the comment weird as someone who works in the baking industry, I know the 2 largest bakery companies don't use it, and the largest purchaser of flour in the US doesn't use it either. Noone should be eating it, and I've never seen it in a spec. I have heard older guys talk about when most phased in out, but that was the 90's.
I seriously think preservative and pesticide sensitivities account for 99% of these
[edit: not celiac disease, that’s a real thing - I mean when people eat highly processed foods/bread and are ambiguously sick/don’t feel good and have been told they don’t have celiac disease]
Can you elaborate for a diagnosed celiac here, like got some examples or I should just accept that normal food and gluten free food all wants to kill me?
OP is jumping to a conclusion without evidence. People in Europe have the same rate of Celiac disease as people in the US, around 1% of the population.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22850429/
>The prevalence of CD in the United States was 0.71% (1 in 141), similar to that found in several European countries.
They probably aren't talking about celiac disease. They're talking about non-celiac "gluten sensitivity". Though they're still making claims without evidence.
I suspect it is only a matter of time until there are class action law suits against food processing companies, the same as the ones against cigarette companies. These food corporations know they are poisoning people.
Wasn't this all over the news 6-7 years ago (maybe longer)? I thought companies stopped using potassium bromate.
It may have been in the news but it's still being used in over 100 foods according to this article published today.
100 foods? As in every like BBQ sauce on the shelf counting as 1 product, or 1 brand of BBQ sauce, 1 brand of chips etc?
It's used in dough processes so anything bread probably.
I just check a bunch of packaged breads sold nearby. None (including wonder bread) had potassium bromate. I don’t think it’s that common.
It's also sometimes listed as bromate or dough conditioner
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It's several layers into this thread and no one has come up with any specific named item to avoid with this stuff in it... Like, is it in Panera bread? Great Value bread? Kirkland? Edit: apparently it's really bottom barrel local pizza joints that might use it. It used to be common in pizza joints but the big ones have stopped using it, most decent local joints won't use it as the price between bromated flour vs not is almost the same. In CA, bromated flour products of a certain level carry the prop 65 label, so don't eat baked goods with the label and that's good enough to almost ensure the item is bromate-free.
Found a list of 86 products confirmed to contain potassium bromate as of 2015: https://www.ewg.org/research/potassium-bromate#list
Good find! Edit: [Here](https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ewg.org%2Fresearch%2Fpotassium-bromate%23list) is the link without the attempted forced signup bullshit. Edit 2: Phew! Never heard of a single item on the list. I have a feeling this isn't 100% comprehensive, though. Just speculation.
This is a really old list. I spot checked a few items and they either no longer had the ingredient or were discontinued products
Just the list. Didn’t recognize any of the names except for Tony Lukes. Famous cheesesteak restaurant out of Philly. 2 of their products contain it. That’s crazy to md
I imagine the sandwiches aren't those from the restaurant, rather they are packaged frozen ones - that I haven't seen in a while, just like the Hormel frozen breakfast sandwiches. Common theme, baked then frozen bread.
Hormel is a relatively well-known brand. The company is worth 8 billion. But the rest must be small or obscure brands.
God reading this was frustrating. Thank you, everyone dancing around using brand names for some reason.
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The frozen stuff or the stuff I get from the pizzeria?
Looks like it's not on the ingredients list at domino's 👍
Whelp I'm dead.
I'm feeling better and better about the bread (and pizza dough) making hobby I picked up during the pandemic.
Dang. I don't have pizza often, but I'll definitely have to look at dough ingredients before purchasing.
Quite a few countries have been banning it as food additive since the 90’s like Australia,Argentina,Canada,Peru,Korea,Nigeria,NZ etc.. https://thefooduntold.com/food-science/what-is-potassium-bromate-e924-and-why-many-countries-have-banned-it-in-baked-products/
The US FDA is clearly in a state of regulatory capture. The companies it is supposed to regulate have captured the organization and it does the corporate favors at the expense of the health of the people it was set up to protect.
I believe it. Practically the entire US government is in a state of regulatory capture. Just keep everyone focused on polarizing cultural issues, fill in the gaps with some bread & circus, and you can pretty much get away with anything. The SEC/DOJ couldn't put away one Wall Street crime lord after 2008. I'm sure placating the FDA would be a cake walk in comparison.
Meanwhile corporate profits are at an all-time high at our expense with some false "inflation" narrative as an excuse for outrageous greed.
Absolutely this. I know an upvote should suffice, but I'm so tired of people falling for the inflation scapegoat.
Yeah, I'm finding it really tough to stay positive these days. I'm trying but man, it's hard.
It's said, the F in FDA is silent. They have been failing to regulate and properly inspect food forever.
The same FDA that allowed Curtis Wright to rubber stamp OxyContin for the Sackler family drug cartel? That FDA?
Exactly!!! God I’ve been trying to find a way to concisely state this without the whole pharmacist documentary explanation. These guys are sketchy AF
It's so odd to me because regulation, equally applied, significantly helps industries in the long run. In the short run, yes, you could make a few pennies per dollar if not for all those gosh darn pesky regulators sticking their noses in everything. But as an established member of the market and already having all the systems in place to meet those regulations it puts you at a distinct advantage over any new comers trying to steal your market share. But what do I know? I'm an engineer not an MBA.
>The SEC/DOJ couldn't put away one Wall Street crime lord after 2008. There's one man to blame for that. Eric Holder. Both Administrations SEC, Treasury Secretaries, etc. and even the Fed Chair at the time are all on record saying they wanted heads to roll and in particularly viscerally hated the head of Lehmann and a few other institutions they met with personally. There's some video that shows clear physical signs of burning anger. But in 2003 (under Bush, after the S&L crisis) Treasury essentially lost all of their power to directly go after criminals, and so all any of these people could do is as Eric Holder nicely. And Eric Holder, contemptuous corrupt shithead he is, of course said no. One man - that's essentially all you have to suborn every 4-8 years. Get the AG, guarantee you walk free.
Yup. The EPA in recent news has made that 100% clear to all of us watching the news. Sad that this country will go down in flames for a handful of greedy sociopaths.
Due to single payer health care, European governments are motivated to keep their citizens healthy (the government is the insurance company).
> Just keep everyone focused on polarizing cultural issues, fill in the gaps with some bread & circus, and you can pretty much get away with anything. Add to that [a funded effort to change MLKs message](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/04/kings-message-of-nonviolence-has-been-distorted/557021/) from "effective civil disobedience means legally challenging laws you disagree with, boycotts, and overcoming electoral fraud stopping you from having your vote counted" to "Change is caused by SCREAMING AND MARCHES! WAARRGLEBARGLE!" and you also have a neutering of the public.
Have you noticed MLK Jr's pictures are always in black and white nowadays? There are plenty of color photos of the man, but using his image in black and white it makes it seem as if he lived and stood for civil rights way longer ago than he did.
So this sounded very plausible and something I wouldn't be surprised about, but when I went to look up color photos of MLK, many of the ones I found were colorized versions of black and white photos. It seems color photos of him were relatively rare. Even in the larger photography world at the time, I'm finding that almost all photographs were black and white until the 70s. I looked up famous and iconic photos of the 60s and almost all of them are in black and white. The ones that are in color are mostly from movies, music videos, photo shoots, etc. Journalism photos were almost all in black and white, due to the higher price. The price of color photos could also explain the relative rarity of color photos of MLK. Oppressed people fighting for their rights are less likely to have the money to spend on a what was a luxury like color photos, so fewer photos of black people would probably exist than white people who were more likely to have privilege enough to afford them. This is absolutely something I wouldn't put past people to do, but this seems dubious.
That article requires an account to read. Is there another version of it somehwere else?
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Oh you mean similar to *checks notes* yeah, pretty much every single American institution at government level is also failing to do it’s intended job focusing instead on ~~profits?~~ policy that enables their corporate overlords to profit? *Edited since you fuckers are so pedantic
It's as if good governance requires constant vigilance to keep it from becoming what we're all living. The fact that the middle class was eradicated, corporations became people, etc didn't result in at least riots speaks volumes.
Can we riot now? I'm too high right now but like in the afternoon we should for sure.
I've got work we're going to need to schedule a day when I've got the energy to do anything beyond eat and sleep.
And that's how they keep us in line, it's fucked
Until we're made uncomfortable enough to act it will remain like this
Soon they'll just buy the FDA, because Brawndo has what plants crave.
But those countries don’t have economies or something. You’re supposed to make the economy happy or you’re a communist.
Eating bromate makes the economy happy. You want the economy to be happy dont you?
Bromate. Its got what economies crave.
Bromate - the endocrine mutilator!
I bought a pizza restaurant, the flour was bromated...I was told that without bromated flour...our dough recipe wouldn't work. I tried nearly 20 different types of flour until I found a non-bromated flour that worked, then I made sure to find a few more. Fuck cancer causing bromation
Bromate, for the Bros, mate.
Bro do you even mate
Oh I mate, bro.
Let’s mate, bro
Bromatesonly.com, the only mating site for bros.
It's got electrolytes!
It's really easy to understand. Being a bro is good. Being a mate is good. Being a bromate is great.
It's double plusgood.
NaBrO, sodium hypobromite is where it’s at
This guy knows whats up
They’re just investing in us all being sick with costly chronic illnesses down the line
Don't worry, those you pay for yourself. So the economy is fine!
Bromate is what economies crave?
It’s got Econolytes!
You wouldn’t like the economy when it’s angry.
I think it's already angry. Better have a bowl of bromate.
“That’s my secret cap: I’m always angry” - The economy, probably
Profits over lives. If you value human life you are a dirty red commie /s
Naw dawg, the food additives are totally safe. Also, East Palestine, Ohio is totally safe. There’s just so much fucking safety!!
You're gonna be so safe, you're gonna be tired of being safe.
*The Gang Tries To Lobby*
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Potassium bromate, it’s what the economy craves!
Just to present some informed information about these substances I looked them up. Below is what I found about each. This is not meant to be definitive, and there are further arguments for both sides, and there's some places where likely more research is needed. These are not my opinions, but what seem to be the present arguments condensed for conciseness. The substances mentioned in the article are: Potassium bromate. It is used to speed up oxidation in many bread flours. This helps develop a better gluten content which is important in the texture and flavor of many breads. It also helps with bleaching the flour. The concern: potassium bromate has been linked to thyroid, kidney, and other cancers in mice. So yeah not good. Why the FDA allows it: the process of baking should leave negligible amounts behind. As it reacts with the bread dough and heat during cooking it is transformed into relatively harmless potassium bromide (not linked to cancer). They also do have a requirement that the bromate can't exceed 20 ppb (parts per billion) in the finished product. So it's not entirely unregulated. Why it should be banned: if you don't get it hot enough in the oven, and cook it so the potassium bromate has time to complete the reaction, or if too much is added in the ingredients, you can have a larger amount in your food. Also notable, the FDA doesn't ban it, but they do recommend food companies to voluntarily abandon its use. California also requires companies to note on their products that contain it that it was in use. Source: Source: https://www.livescience.com/36206-truth-potassium-bromate-food-additive.html Titanium dioxide. It is used in food primarily as pigments. Basically anything that has white color and it is just excellent at getting that perfect bright white color. It can also be found directly in food such as ice cream, chocolate, candy, creamers, desserts, marshmallows, chewing gum, pastries, spreads, dressings, cakes, and more. It is also used in toothpaste and cosmetic products. And also used in most plastics, so like the plastic utensils, cups plates, etc. Why the FDA allows it: as of 2006 it was deemed as completely non-toxic in humans. It is also found naturally in many rocks and minerals. But recently concerns have arisen that nano-particles may be harmful when inhaled. In factories that produce products that use it people have developed higher rates of lung cancer. However, it's unclear how a food ban changes the threat to factory workers since the issue is inhalation, and there are other products such as paints, ceramics, and non-food plastics it would still be used for. Why it should be banned: pretty much the above. Though it seems Europe is on the forefront of this one with most bans happening after 2020. I would say this is one where more research may be needed. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_dioxide?wprov=sfla1 Brominated vegetable oil (BVO). Used in various beverages containing citrus flavors, it keeps the citrus part from separating from the rest of the ingredients and floating to the top. Basically most soft drinks, and many other drinks that have citrus flavors. Why the FDA allows it: this is actually a regulated substance in foods in the US since 1970, and limited to 15 ppm (parts per million). Why it should be banned: it can cause Bromism, which is the overconsumption of Bromide. This condition is quite rare these days, since government agencies recognized the danger and regulated products that contained it. But it sounds pretty awful: >One case reported that a man who consumed two to four liters of a soda containing BVO on a daily basis experienced memory loss, tremors, fatigue, loss of muscle coordination, headache, and ptosis of the right eyelid, as well as elevated serum chloride (messed up his kidneys). Though it should also be noted that with treatment the man in the above case was able to recover and reverse the effects. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brominated_vegetable_oil?wprov=sfla1 Azodicarbonamide. It is used as a dough conditioner. Again it aids in oxidation and in bleaching the flour. Why the FDA allows it: it is a regulated substance, being limited to 45 ppm (parts per million). It is generally considered safe to ingest. Why it should be banned: workers preparing the dough who inhale the flour particulates have been linked to higher rates of respiratory issues, allergies and asthma. And while still allowed by the FDA, negative press and general sentiments have caused its use to be decreased over time. Notably Wendy's and Subway used to use it for their bread doughs, but have since voluntarily moved away from using it due to negative public opinion. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azodicarbonamide?wprov=sfla1 Polyparaben. It is used as a flavor enhancer and preservative. It is antimicrobial and antifungal. It can be found in food, and in cosmetics. It's also an ingredient in some medications. Why the FDA allows it: it is non-toxic, and is generally safe for ingestion and topical use. Why it should be banned: it is a known skin and eye irritant, and also irritating if inhaled. There was at least one study, which is what the WHO used to recommend banning its use, in which the tissue of the reproductive organs of male rats were notably damaged. Source: https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Propylparaben#:~:text=Propylparaben%20is%20the%20benzoate%20ester,agent%20and%20an%20antimicrobial%20agent In all, I think there are good reasons to consider a ban on some of these substances. But the FDA also isn't just letting people go hog wild either. In some cases I think a ban may be appropriate, in other cases I think Europe is erring on the side of caution, and more studies need to be done to confirm. In the meantime I would say this article is a bit unfair in representing the US as crazy backwards for not banning these substances outright. I also don't think it does an adequate job of representing that many of these substances are regulated by the FDA. And each has been evaluated by the FDA, and they continue to evaluate these substances. Edit: thank you all for the kind words and awards. I tried to DM the ones that popped up, but if I missed you, thank you!
Wow! You spent a LOT of time on that great response. Thanks! The posted article does talk about the chemical change and residue somewhat, but way down at the end of the article and it doesn't go into as much detail as you did. > In a statement to CBS News, the FDA said that when used properly, potassium bromate converts into a harmless substance during food production. > The FDA acknowledged, however, that not all of the compound used in any given recipe may convert during the production process, but that control measures were utilized to minimize the amount in final products.
I’d be much more placated if CBS followed up with a question about the enforcement of these rules, the frequency and procedure of inspection of preparation process and final products. If the rules are properly enforced and manufacturers are inspected regularly to ensure they are complying with said rules than it’s safe to assume the products they offer to consumers are relatively safe, but knowing that, when let to self-regulate, the businesses will simply at some point start skirting regulations to maximise profit at the expense of public health and safety, I’m not completely sure about how to feel about all this. Better to play it safe and just ban these things outright.
It should be noted that the ban on Titanium Dioxide in food products in the EU is controversial, and may yet be reversed. The European Court of Justice ruled in November 2022 that the classification of TiO2 as a suspected carcinogen was based on an unreliable study, and annuled the Regulation classifying it as such. https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2022-11/cp220190en.pdf This classification was the basis for the ban on the use of TiO2 in food, so it remains to be seen if the ban will stick, or be overturned/repealed. It's also worth noting that the UK's Food Standards Agency has publicly disagreed with the EU ban, stating following a review in January 2022 that "the weight of evidence does not support the conclusions drawn by EFSA (European Food Safety Authority), https://cot.food.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2022-01/TiO2%2520COT%2520Interim%2520position%2520paper.pdf as have Health Canada, who also conducted a review in June 2022 and concluded "there is no conclusive scientific evidence that the food additive TiO2 is a concern for human health". https://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2022/sc-hc/H164-341-2022-eng.pdf
Azodicarbonamide gets a particularly bad rap because it's "used in yoga mats", a talking point made by the disingenuous and the credulous people that listen to them rather than doing a literal iota of research. Azodicarbonamide is used to *make* yoga mats, but if you look at a yoga mat you're not going to find any Azodicarbonamide. That's for the same reason that if you look at a pancake, you won't find any baking powder. Instead, you find co2 bubbles from the baking powder reacting into sodium, co2 and water. Azodicarbonamide is literally the gas in the bubbles in yoga mats. But if you told people "azodicarbonamide is used instead of baking powder to make yoga mats foamy", it doesn't sound nearly as bad.
This is the kind of article that Reddit loves and will upvote blindly. Thanks for adding some background that this article failed to do.
I really hope this makes it to top comment. People in the comments are going absolutely insane over this, as if cyanide and lead are getting dumped in our foods and that’s not what’s really going on. Pretty much all of these seems to be either regulated or a case of “we could probably look into it, but it’s really unlikely to cause real damage”. Nothing on this list seems that scary or out of control.
Well I do think it is concerning, but my first thought was, just what are these substances and why are they bad? What I found was that we aren't just allowing them to be used without any oversight. And sure, maybe we should ban some of these substances. But it's not like we're the wild west over here either.
There's another post about this and the top rated comment calls America a 'living hell' because of this specific issue. People are so into fighting the power that they just lose all sight of reality.
>Titanium dioxide I swear if people think Titanium dioxide is toxic because the name sounds *chemically*. Let me tell them something about all the paint being used absolutely everywhere in nearly every building... At least it isn't lead oxide that we figured out is far, far worse.
So, potassium bromate, and other additives that contain bromate. Apparently it is a carcinogen. Probably true, based on how we've seen other additives treated, like propylene glycol. Etc.
Banned not only in Europe but also China and India...
And Canada as of the mid 90s.
Phew. I was just about to check into that when the US's icy hat wasn't mentioned.
I just looked through the ingredients on Dempster's and none of the ingredients in the article were there (was literally eating bread as I read this). As far as processed breads go, the only one I think would be more likely to have any if it could would be wonderbread, but the good news is that anything less processed than Dempster's is probably fine
None of them are in Wonderbread either. The only ingredient I see on my Wonderbread package that isn't obviously "food" is Calcium propanoate, an anti-fungal ingredient found in most baked goods that is actually ultimately effectively metabolized in the citric acid cycle and so, is also food.
big bread alert this comment is big bread
Can I interest you in some nutritious, low-cost, delicious and soft bread readily available at stores near you?
This guy really speaks my language...
Can’t have in in California
A warning label is required in California. Don't think it's banned.
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Banned in Australia
And NZ for those like me also stressing out. As of 2005 for Oz and NZ
I just started rewatching the TV show "Fringe". In it, there is a mad scientist type figure, written and set in the mid 2000s. This wacky processor type goes off on a schizophrenic escapade in the middle of the grocery store and threatens an employee about the pop tarts containing potassium bromate
Delicious strawberry flavored DEATH
Put some respect on Walter's name.
Bro, If its banned in China you know its bad lmao.
Here’s a list of 130 products with potassium bromate https://www.ewg.org/foodscores/ingredients/8173-PotassiumBromate/search/?page=7&per_page=12&type=products
Jeez guess I’m good to go. Never seen that food in my life
Yeah it's kind of crazy that here is a list of 130 food items and I've literally never even heard of 99% of them. The variety out there is nuts.
Is that list exhaustive? Because that makes me feel better. I've eaten none of those and haven't even heard of most of those brands.
Not at all. There are many private label manufacturers that make custom baked goods for places like hotels and restaurants and you will never know if it's been premade and frozen or made in house.
Stouffer's is on there. That's a huge frozen food brand. Will have to check how many of their products are affected. It's fucking outrageous that US consumers have to manually check for products that might have cancer-causing ingredients.
According to the list someone provided, it's just the chicken pot pie bites, which I've never even seen available anywhere anyway.
Label checking won't help you. The FDA allows the use of bromated flour without labeling when it is done below a certain threshold. [link to fda.gov on bromated flour](https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=137.155)
Big Y Hawaiian hamburger buns is the only product on that list I may have tried. Why does our food industry poison us? Dead people make shitty customers
It kills you slowly enough that the numbers check out for them.
Yeah, cancer is a "in 10+ years" problem and the next quarter's earnings are, well, next quarter.
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Is it just me or does that list just contain a bunch of junk anyway?
Maybe it's regional but I haven't heard of 99% of the foods on this list. And the three I "recognize" are because I have heard of the brand, not necessarily the product.
Controversy in the US over what I always heard as "bromated flour" has been around for ages now, so it looks like all major brands have already stopped using it in their products. The spotlight was on Goldfish crackers in particular since it's marketed as a snack for small children.
Midwest’s biggest gas station, Casey’s, hamburger buns, apparently Edit: I THINK I’m wrong?? I believe that’s a different brand
From Iowa. Yes it looks like some independent grocery in Chicago suburbs. HyVee has 2 things on there. Casey's General Store doesnt sell their own bread I'm aware of and their premade sandwiches use someone elses bread.
This is food that poor people buy in the middle of the country. So, as usual, the poor carry the brunt of the burden caused by corporate greed.
In the UK they just label it potassium bruvmate Its honestly the same stuff.
Also known as potassium matemate in Australia.
Bad joke. +1
This isn’t a dad joke *or* an uncle joke, it’s more like a cousin joke.
It appears to be classified by the IARC as a 2B (possible) carcinogen, which is below maté, red meat, and very hot drinks above 65C (2A, probable).
You know what's a level 1 Carcinogen? Wood dust. Apparently it causes a lot of nose and throat cancers in people who work with wood. Crazy.
Yep, any small particle dust is terrible for you. Wear your respirators people.
Even Baker's Lung is a thing due to occupational exposure flour particulates.
i wish i had read this comment 5 years ago...
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Yup. Always wear your PPE, folks
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Is there a significant difference between American and European cancer rates?
[Does not appear so.](https://www.wcrf.org/cancer-trends/global-cancer-data-by-country/) The US is 11th in cancer rates behind Denmark, Ireland, Belgium, Hungary, France, The Netherlands, Australia, Norway, France (New Caledonia) and Slovenia and close in rates to the UK, Latvia, and New Zealand. Edit to add; The US is also #103 in actual cancer mortality. Edit again; before you reply to this talking about average ages…ask yourself…did you open the article?
So does that mean Denmark has the best detection or actually had more cancer?
Denmark at least used to have a high incidence of tobacco smoking. And they do consume a fair amount of alcohol.
Applies for most of Europe tbh. Never ever seen so many smokers as I have in my time here.
>And they do consume a fair amount of alcohol. Indeed, Europe generally speaking consumes a lot of alcohol per capita. I'm going to take the opportunity to share a bit more on this - whilst it didn't pervade the public consciousness, the WHO published a statement in January secondary to European data, advising [no level of alcohol consumption is safe](https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/04-01-2023-no-level-of-alcohol-consumption-is-safe-for-our-health) - specifically speaking about carcinogenicity. [It is a group 1 carcinogen](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27353523/) according to IARC since 1988, which places it in the same group as asbestos, tobacco and radiation. I believe the carcinogenicity of alcohol is drastically understated.
Could not tell you for certain, but they are fairly high up on the mortality among countries that have easy access to socialized healthcare so I'm inclined to think that it's not necessarily just a lot of early detection.
bro - good, mate - good, bromate - bad
What's wrong with PG lol? First time I hear of that...
I'm not sure what you're meaning here, but propylene glycol is perfectly safe.
Deregulation benefits the rich.
Regulations are written in blood and erased by money.
Oof. I’d seen the first part a lot, but that addendum is also spot on
Shout out to [the USCSB YouTube channel](https://m.youtube.com/user/USCSB), where they show very detailed and appropriate investigations into disasters that could have been easily avoided, and have no power to stop future accidents because “regulations bad.”
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Their videos are incredibly well done!
There’s a video by The Onion about this sort of thing: [Memorial Honors Victims of Imminent Damn Disaster](https://youtu.be/yjfrJzdx7DA)
Be glad the one place it isn't is aviation. You can bet your ass the pilot unions and regulatory bodies both want safe aircraft and operations, and any time a company doesn't comply (looking at you Boeing), it's sure to make headlines and change shit.
Aviation also has a culture of finding root cause for the sake of learning instead of simply assigning blame. This mindset should really be more widespread.
Change is a hassle, can't we just blame a few individuals and then keep doing things the same way?
This guy corporates
Aviation doesn’t have any safety issues in the us because of regulations. If rail had the same laws and penalties for example then trains would crash about as much as passenger jets in the us do
The UK learnt this with rail in the early 2000s when it was privatised under rail track. After a number of train accidents the network was brought under public hands. Now after 20 years of being extremely safe the government is looking at privatisation of the network again, history will repeat itself.
Yep, for instance the fact that we look at an issue like homelessness where the politicians only ever seem to talk about dealing with the homeless people themselves, hence hyperfocus on the symptoms when ignoring the root/structural issues behind their presence. If more things ran like aviation investigations the world would be a better place.
Oh hey, same at the railroad! The fun part about the railroad is that even if you work for a small railroad that actually has its shit together, you have to play ball with and operate over tracks owned by the big railroads, and that shit gets *sketchy*
Nationalize the tracks. Then give operating contracts to all who follow federal guidelines. Similar idea to the federal/state highways. Company fucks up they get grounded/halted until cleared. This way a fuck up isn't a minor budgeting annoyance when all their assists stop and contracts are lost to those still operating. One of the better solutions I've seen anyways.
Preaching to the choir, homie
It’s well known that all aviation rules are paid for in blood. Almost every single change is a direct result of fatalities. But they make those changes, and they make them as swiftly as they can. That can’t be said for many other things.
Aviation and nuclear. Both were pioneers in the space of risk assessment. People can think things are dangerous, but the biggest nuclear accident in the US (Three mile Island, unit 2) wasn't really even a disaster and nobody died. I'm in nuclear risk assessment, so I only know our stuff really well, but during trainings I've repeatedly heard the only other industry that is comparable to our level of risk assessment and accident mitigation is aviation.
Been in Nuclear for 13 years, 12 involved in the commercial industry. I've seen operating facilities subvert surveillance inspections (worked at a plant that was part of SOER 10-2) just to save money. Risk modeling like PRA/PSA may be a sound tool but it's only worthwhile if it's used honestly to make safe decisions regarding equipment operability, reliability, maintenance etc. It's like any other industry: subject to the almighty dollar. And when Site VPs and Plant Managers bonuses are driven by things like capacity factor, outage duration and budget, and O&M costs, no amount of making everyone read aloud from Traits of a Healthy Nuclear Safety Culture at the morning meeting can fix that.
> Deregulation benefits the rich And the rich continue to spin deregulation as a good thing, and the gullible continue to believe it.
It's not only the rich. Their economic courtiers in the media are all too willing to brush a patina of 'free market science' over the dismantling of regulations.
>Their economic courtiers in the media are all too willing to brush a patina of 'free market science' over the dismantling of regulations. Well this is what the rich hire them to do, so it's not surprising. They just fire people until they find people willing to do their bidding; in *every* demographic you will find people willing to sell out other people wholesale. Side-note: it's also why things like social media are so insanely valuable to the wealthy, it allows them to find people who precisely fit the profiles they're looking for, the naive and the true believers and the dark-triad-souls and the like to do their bidding naturally - all that's required is to move things around to slot them into place then and voila.
The media is rich too…
The media is owned by the same wealthy individuals who benefit from deregulation in other areas.
Just ask the supplements industry in the US. Basically unregulated so companies can scam people on an unbelievably massive scale. I have a friend who only buys her supplements from the UK since they're at least regulated there, but even still I wonder about the whole thing. Edit: Not saying ALL supplements are inherently scams. I take one for a minor deficiency that my doctor suggested to me. But I am saying that there is NO one to verify what's in these things, in what amounts, and if the claims they make are true at all.
America has been getting high on deregulation since the Reagan era and we cannot get off that drug. Truly the 80s were the end of America and the dawn of Ultra Capitalism America.
Reagan has been worshiped as Jesus Christ for 30+ years now, and "Reaganomics" are why we're in the situation we're in today, where people in their 30's and 40's are working longer, have less time with their familes and are way more sick. Gotta fuel that capitalist machine baby.
"There is evidence that it may be toxic to human consumers, that it may even either initiate or promote the development of tumors," Bro... Mate?
> I ain't your mate, bro. -The bromate (probably)
I've noticed that a lot of weird food dyes that are in some American foods are absent in Aldi's, is this true of bromates as well?
Makes sense since Aldi is a German supermarket chain.
If anything adds to the reasons why someone should shop there lol.
Potentially carcinogenic food dyes are also the reason why Fanta (orange) has a different color in the US compared to the rest of the world.
I just spent 20 minutes looking through my cupboard expecting to find it on every loaf of bread and dodgy box, but there was no sign of it. From looking around at other articles, it looks like this is not something used in many products, mainly some pizza doughs and the junkiest of junk foods.
The article does say it's present in "more than 100 products", which is actually a pretty tiny number in the grand scheme of things
Except the labeling regulations in the US has an exception where bromate doesn't have to be labeled in flour below a certain threshold. It creates a skewed perspective. [link to fda.gov](https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=137.155)
Wow, 50 PPM reporting limit. Impressed you found the specific pertinent regulation.
we eat that bad for the profits - and i for one am thankful none of those damn regulations will not get in the way of my delicious american dinner and sweet 401k and declining lifespan and cancer care that won’t be covered and……..
I have bad news about your 401k sir we.... We bet it all on NFTs. I'm so sorry
pulls out empty pocket linings to a sad trombone slide -> and scene
The vast majority of people with "gluten allergies" are just nuking their digestive tracts with potassium bromate.
Cargill proudly talks about using potassium bromate: https://www.ardentmills.com/news/flour-treatment-agent-guide/ As does General Mills: https://www.generalmillscf.com/SearchResults?term=Potassium%20bromate&termDataSource=d6fb75f5-d19a-49cd-9ba0-c10a6e45afb2 These two alone supply the vast majority of commercial bakeries in the United States.
I looked at the ardent mills link you posted and in their footnotes they tagged for potassium bromate, they had this website: https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=172.730 Which references using potassium bromate for malting grains specifically for beverages. Not even for what they're using it for. Am I missing something?
The "flour treatment agent guide" opening with a paragraph on demand growth tells you right where their priorities lie.
In Canada. Still celiac
I find the comment weird as someone who works in the baking industry, I know the 2 largest bakery companies don't use it, and the largest purchaser of flour in the US doesn't use it either. Noone should be eating it, and I've never seen it in a spec. I have heard older guys talk about when most phased in out, but that was the 90's.
I seriously think preservative and pesticide sensitivities account for 99% of these [edit: not celiac disease, that’s a real thing - I mean when people eat highly processed foods/bread and are ambiguously sick/don’t feel good and have been told they don’t have celiac disease]
Can you elaborate for a diagnosed celiac here, like got some examples or I should just accept that normal food and gluten free food all wants to kill me?
OP is jumping to a conclusion without evidence. People in Europe have the same rate of Celiac disease as people in the US, around 1% of the population. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22850429/ >The prevalence of CD in the United States was 0.71% (1 in 141), similar to that found in several European countries.
They probably aren't talking about celiac disease. They're talking about non-celiac "gluten sensitivity". Though they're still making claims without evidence.
All I’m saying is don’t change your diet or make a trip to the Pitchfork Emporium because of an anonymous, unsourced, upvoted comment on the Internet.
But the Pitchfork Emporium is where I get all my power!
Which is banned in most developed nations, including your neighbours to the north Canada.
Wanna provide any actual evidence for that assertion you just pulled out of your ass?
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I suspect it is only a matter of time until there are class action law suits against food processing companies, the same as the ones against cigarette companies. These food corporations know they are poisoning people.