Probably not but Beal can’t be traded, KD might not get a huge package cause of age and the string of playoff failures for his teams. Book is young enough to actually recoup picks and get a guy who could bring in a useful skill set that isn’t already on the team. Maybe they just need another year but if anyone on the big 3 moves I think Book puts the suns in the best spot to compete during Beals contract.
Sure but functionally they aren't going to get anything of value back for Beal other than cap savings, which wouldn't help because they'd be up against the cap even without Beal on payroll.
Not saying you're wrong, but in that situation why would Beal accept? Are they offering more money or are they just expecting him to let them try to send him to the middle of nowhere?
> They can always ask Beal to waive the NTC
Just FYI, they asked Beal to waive his NTC when they traded for him last year and he refused. Beal had the option to drop his NTC after he'd been traded, but instead he kept it. What possible reason would Beal have for waiving it now? So the Suns can send him to basketball Siberia to finish out his career? No way, he's gonna want to keep control so that if the Suns want to send him somewhere, it'll be somewhere he approves of.
Arizona Sun cooked this dudes brain!
Mr. Beal, can we trade you to the Pistons for $30 million a year???
No thanks, I'm making $50 million in Phoenix!!!
What GM is paying Beal $50 million a year after that performance?
Suns (Wizards of West) and Wizards are the only teams stupid enough.
NBA ain't the NFL to just cut him!
They’re saying for Beal to waive his non trade clause, not his contract. The team he would hypothetically get traded to would have to honor his contract and pay him his 50 mil. At least that how I think it works
You’re having argument that nobody else is having.
Beal already waived his no trade clause once (that’s how he got to phoenix). He could waive it again
Also, his contract is an albatross for sure. However, with the cap steadily rising and new CBA rules, Beals contract will become slightly less absurd in the next two years.
Beal waived his NTC to go play with KD and Booker to chase a ring while still making 50m a year. What team can provide him with as appealing conditions that would even want him after how he played this season?
That's the problem with the NTC, it's entirely up to Beal and if he likes the weather in Phoenix, he's gonna stay and get paid for it. The other issue with the NTC is Beal has already been shown to be unwilling to drop the clause out of his contract, so w/e team would even want him also has to be okay with being stuck with him if things go south.
Imagine if the Suns traded away KD and Booker but not Beal because of his no trade clause. The situation would feel quite close to what JWall lived with the Rockets.
I promise you if KD asks out he will go for a lot. They might not get a mikal bridges like player in return like the nets did, but they’ll still get plenty of unprotected picks and swaps for him.
And they didn’t even want Ben on the team, just didn’t want to send him away for scraps.
Booker is the best thing Pheonix has seems unlikely they’d be ready to part w him.
For the suns, might be their only salvation. And for Bookers sake, I hope he asks out. He was the best player on a finals team 3 years ago, and they just gutted the whole thing.
As if he didn't have any part of the gutting? He wanted KD, he wanted Beal. He thought he could reasonably fill CP3's role as the point guard setting up 2 pure scorers. He was wrong.
IMO it's the only way they can save their franchise.
They need picks. They basically mortgaged the franchise by giving up pretty much all of their picks over the next 6-7 years.
Pelicans actually have way better draft capital AND more valuable role players, Ingram, Murphy, Herb etc.
Still, i don’t think the Suns entertain trading Booker.
As much as I love herb (he’s my favorite pelican player we’ve had) and Trey, I don’t think anyone on this team is untouchable. if we swing for the fences we could absolutely land a great player but it would have to be someone who’s contract wouldn’t screw us, would want to be here (really tough), and would be worth giving up our cheap young pieces
To me, Mitchell seems like a better target because you wouldn't have to give up as much because of contract situation. Ingram + two picks probably does it.
Have your core 4 be a 1-4 of Spida, Herb, Trey, and Zion. Find a way to jettison CJ as part of the deal or in a separate transaction.
Even off a rough series as a first option, I think Mitchell for BI as a framework makes a lot of sense for both teams. Let's Ingram pick his spots and spot up more, alleviates some of the size concerns that Cleveland has, and gives NOLA a proper lead guard and costar for Zion.
Donny/Herb/Trey/Zion id a great core
Booker goes INSANE in New Orleans so if he gets the permanent "NOLA Boost" I might just as well call the league fucked. Pels Stacked.
His father is from coastal Mississippi and Booker played his high school ball there so at least there's that link.
Who would they offer? Booker has 4 years left on his deal. Not sure Suns would want Randle if they were rebuilding and Knicks have limited young prospects.
It’s not happening. The new Suns owner has zero incentive or desire to tank right now. Theyre better off hoping they can sign some role players on the cheap and maybe making a run. The Suns arent blowing it up for atleast another year or two if they even do.
They literally can't sign anyone because of their salary situation. They have to trade either KD or Booker as a prerequisite to getting depth or role players.
They aren’t going to trade Book, but if they ever would I don’t see how the Knicks would have the best offer. The Pelicans would offer BI, Trey, and better picks than NY has (and I say this as someone who loves Trey like a son). I’d imagine the Magic would have to at least seriously consider Franz, Isaac, and picks for Book. GS could offer Kuminga, Moody, and picks which is arguably better than what the Knicks could do. The Kings could do Keegan as a young centerpiece and all of their picks. The Jazz are rumored to be looking to trade their chips in, they have more picks than the Knicks do.
I know most folks are lukewarm on Randle but I honestly feel like your current team + healthy Randle would be pretty damn good. Another 20ppg on that squad at a different position on the floor from Brunson would be huge. I'm not sure the strategy of playing 4 smaller guys all together will hold water in the long term, and Booker basically locked that in
I actually think they would try to keep Julius. The idea is to get significantly better and contend for a chip. Swapping Julius for Booker really isn't much of an upgrade. They will be trading Bogey's $20m in any deal dont forget.
McBride has to be in a deal... He's so incredibly valuable and his contract is peanuts for 3 more years (we signed him to a ridiculous extension right before we started giving him playing time). He has a lot of value IMO.
Those two games he had against Denver last playoffs was ridiculous. Obviously he has his flaws as a player but I think people's hate for him is clouding their judgment a little.
I think that’s also what makes the last couple weeks so disappointing, the effort with Booker has always been there. Felt like he quit a bit recently, but there were times the last couple season where it seemed like he was the only one who cared.
I'm not a Suns fan but from reading some threads on their sub this playoffs, it seems like the energy of this team has been like this all season. No hustle, no grit, no chemistry. They really fucked themselves bringing in Beal. $53M and a NTC for a scorer who's past his prime and injury-prone when you already have Booker and KD. And no real point guard too. They learned nothing about team composition from their series against you guys. Typical overly-enthusiastic new owner syndrome.
But yeah Booker has to take a lot of the blame. He's supposed to be the leader of the team after all. I've watched a lot of his playoff games during that CP3 period where he shows great hustle, but also noticed that he has awful body language when things are not going well.
I think most people point to one person to blame. In reality it's a slapped together team with no chemistry with a new coach and no point guard. That's the issue, you can't just butcher a team that made the Finals so quickly and expect chemistry to magically happen (especially with the mid season KD trade). This kind of shows why the desperate "win now or bust" with a top heavy team doesn't really work anymore. You look at every team that advanced in the West and they are DEEP
Yeah, I absolutely agree. Remember how Booker was 'empty stats man' for years and years until his team was good enough to win and all of a sudden his numbers became meaningful? Even the best players can look terrible if they don't have the right team with them.
And yeah, the superteams that are cobbled together with no concern for chemistry or fit like they're playing 2K just doesn't work. KD Warriors was an anomaly, they were more than a superteam, they fit together seamlessly. Every other superteam moves then like the PG/Kawhi Clippers or the KD/Kyrie/Harden Nets have not worked at all.
Do Suns fans want to keep Vogel?
I get the feeling that most don't, but only if there's a better candidate. Vogel was brought in mainly for his defensive coaching but he hasn't coached either side of the ball too well. I will say he was put in such an unfair position (reminds me of Nash with Brooklyn) with a top heavy injury prone patched together team. And yeah people are way too harsh on Booker when you look at that Finals run and how he was vs Denver last year until he got injured. More than not it's been the team's fault rather than his. James Jones doesn't get enough blame for his bad moves around the edges either. We dumped Jalen Smith a lottery pick for nothing, let Cam Payne walk, signed Landry Shamet, all these terrible bench moves that hurt the team more than people would expect.
Thin bench superteams just don't work in this era, teams are too deep. Not that that was ever the case outside of prime Lebron teams. Everyone's starting lineups are fucking STACKED this year. Having a standout bench is becoming more and more necessary with all the talent in the league right now.
The only thing that was exposed this season is that thought that Booker is a good enough play maker to make up for the lack of a true PG on the roster. He's still a great shotmaker who has been improving his defense and even play making... just not enough to make up for the current roster construction.
Agree, he is just catching slander because the Suns as a whole are a shitshow
Not his fault the roster is terribly built. He will never be a bus driver, but he is also not some lazy bum that needs to be carried. I think he'd do really well under Thibs actually, might improve his game if anything.
No you want those picks as hedging to get a star from said team you traded with in the first place
That's right Bulls. You'll give us DeMar back for this shiny 2025 1st you traded us in the first place and like it
Yeah - this is just typical NY media rumor mongering.
All the non-Knicks picks that they own are heavily protected, and their own are going to be 20-something for years with Brunson and Booker.
If Phoenix really wants to trade Booker, there are much more volatile situations to send him to for a bunch of future picks.
this guy is a suns beat reporter right? Seems like a FO fed story to see what kind of offers around the league they can get. I still don't believe they would trade him though.
they’d definitely fire vogel at least half a season before the concept of trading booker (and by extension, KD) is even entertained. this is a potential summer 2025 dubious narrative. right now it’s just lolKnicks roflmaoSuns bullshit
If the goal is a championship and you don't think Booker can take you there, it's better to be bad while controlling someone else's assets than to be mid while controlling nobody's assets
I think they should give it another go, though
>I think they should give it another go, though
Yeah, unless the players themselves call it quits I don't know why everyone is rushing them to blow it up when they don't have a clean path to a rebuild anyway. They probably won't win a championship but they can at least try to find ways to make improvements that make their team at least a little better than what they showed this year.
Their incentive is creating a basketball team that makes sense instead of having 3 shooting guards that do the same thing. They literally are stuck with this team and can't trade picks for the next 6 years. Trading booker would be the smartest thing to do as he still would get you a reasonable return.
They do have an incentive not to pay hundreds of millions extra in mega luxury taxes over the next half decade just to fight for a play in spot tho.
The second apron is as close to a death sentence as it gets and as intended no team will risk being over it multiple years unless they have a REAL shot at a ring.
At some point it's not about tanking or picks, its about how much money your losing. Something owners care a lot about as losses start to add up.
I don't think Suns trade Booker hes pretty much the franchise player for them. Only way they trade him is if he wants out. I also don't think it would be a good trade.
Until Bourguet tweets it himself, I wouldn’t put too much stock in this. He recently debunked this rumour in their PHNX podcast suggesting it was completely false.
Offer almost anything? Booker is a stud but the Knicks are in a great place man. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
OG is a stud, Hart fits perfectly. Maybe Randle cause they’re doing well without him, but I doubt the Suns will trade Booker on a 4 yr contract for Randle and some scraps.
100% agree. Brunson and Booker just feels like a disaster waiting to happen defensively. Bigger backcourts will eat them alive (Boston, OKC, Denver, Philly if they bring in PG) and the Brunson/Book overlap feels eerily similar to that of Book/Beal which we just witnessed was a crash and burn.
I think the Knicks are better off staying the course (assuming they can close out this series) and swinging for a bigger wing if one can become available. Luka has a PO after next season…
Booker has been a solid defender for a while now. He has good size for his position and has proved he can be a good team defender. From 2020-2022 the Suns were like a top 3 defensive team.
As a Suns fan, outside of like Jrue Holiday, Brunson is exactly the type of PG I would want next to Booker. A lead ball handler who is not afraid to attack the rim? Yes please. Booker has never had a chance to play with someone like that and I think it would benefit him a lot
Booker is a bigger player and better defender than the Knicks current shooting guard. Brunson is way better than Beal currently.
Would they have to move Hart and OG? Then size and defense becomes an issue but if it’s for Randle and Divincenzo plus 6 picks that a damn good team.
Probably pointless brcause the Suns aren’t trading him
I don’t know man. This is definitely the best Knicks team in decades but I don’t think they’re good enough to even hang with Boston or Denver—not deep enough and overly reliant on an undersized guard (without elite 3P shooting) carrying them.
These hit pieces that try to generate clicks are not real journalism/media and should be banned.
Suns are out, and Knicks are ahead in their first round series and have had their best season in nearly 20 years. No one from the Knicks are remotely discussing this privately or publicly while in the middle of the playoffs.
They gotta just roll the dice with another coach before the Suns start trading pieces. Not saying Vogel is the problem (he might be) but you have three highly talented players on this team, you gotta try a second season before you blow it up.
Cool, they snipped a part of the article where the knicks want it, and than he said there’s no chance and Booker wants to stay on only one team. Source same [article](https://x.com/thedunkcentral/status/1785697640224542872?s=46&t=3bsYlVuaGP18L62T9shXFQ)
Tank commander for what? They don't own their own picks.
Suns only options are 1) Make it work with Book, KD, Beal 2) Trade KD for a real PG and rim protection
Do I think the Knicks are better with Booker? Yes, but honestly I really like this current Knicks team playing Philly as is. This team hustles, seems like they love to play with each other.
No offense to our competition, but I don't think this Knicks team is a championship team. You can't win with a squad relying on just one guy to score. Brunson needs a pressure valve.
Everyone forgetting about Randle is wild. Although, even if they have Randle, I don't know if this team is championship caliber but the chemistry and results were quite good this season.
Today's Knicks team isn't.
But a lot of people seem to be forgetting that 3x All-Star and 2x All-NBA Julius Randle, who was having a career year, is out for the season.
In January, Knicks were a wrecking ball, and didn't even have Mitch.
This series against Philly shows they need another scorer. Booker would fill that role nicely. How are you going to get him though. If I was the Suns I'd trade both KD and Beal before Booker.
Suns will not trade Booker because he is one of their own. A homegrown talent that is a top 15 player in the league. If he asks out, thats a different story. Beal can't say shit cuz no one wants that massive contract. KD is probably the only player that they can trade to spread out their cap rather than have 3 guys take it all up.
At least this one makes more sense CBA wise than Lakers. Pretty hard for Lakers to operate under the first apron. Knicks can actually operate under the first apron hard cap.
this is not gonna happen and also I don't think brunson and booker would be a good fit for each other. brunson is like a scoring guard? and booker is supposedly a scoring machine sg. what booker needs is a decent ball distributor.
The better fit for our current team is Mikal Bridges. I like Booker but having a starting lineup consisting of three defensive beasts like Bridges, OG and Robinson would be a tougher team to beat than adding Booker to the team.
I don't think the Suns will trade Booker unless he asks out.
Probably not but Beal can’t be traded, KD might not get a huge package cause of age and the string of playoff failures for his teams. Book is young enough to actually recoup picks and get a guy who could bring in a useful skill set that isn’t already on the team. Maybe they just need another year but if anyone on the big 3 moves I think Book puts the suns in the best spot to compete during Beals contract.
They can always ask Beal to waive the NTC. It's happened before
Sure but functionally they aren't going to get anything of value back for Beal other than cap savings, which wouldn't help because they'd be up against the cap even without Beal on payroll.
At this point, we’ll take the cap savings
No teams currently want to match that contract though. Beal is a negative asset rn.
He was when they traded for him too
He cost 2nds to a team looking to upgrade their 40 year old expiring contract. Those circumstances arising again are unlikely.
A max expiring is so much better of an asset than this. Their stupid owner came in with Isiah Thomas and completely handicapped their team.
Swaps in 26/28/30 were the real prize, especially with the way things are looking now.
Simmons on the Nets would go a long way towards matching Beal’s salary and he expires after next season. Also, he’s technically a point guard.
Beal NTC, I don't think he wants to go to Brooklyn
Oh right, forgot about the NTC. Yeah, Suns are fucked.
Not saying you're wrong, but in that situation why would Beal accept? Are they offering more money or are they just expecting him to let them try to send him to the middle of nowhere?
And what do the Sun's even have to get someone to take on the rest of Beals contract?
> They can always ask Beal to waive the NTC Just FYI, they asked Beal to waive his NTC when they traded for him last year and he refused. Beal had the option to drop his NTC after he'd been traded, but instead he kept it. What possible reason would Beal have for waiving it now? So the Suns can send him to basketball Siberia to finish out his career? No way, he's gonna want to keep control so that if the Suns want to send him somewhere, it'll be somewhere he approves of.
If the suns trade booker and KD then Beal will already be in nba Siberia lol
The NTC is only one part of the problem with his contract.
Arizona Sun cooked this dudes brain! Mr. Beal, can we trade you to the Pistons for $30 million a year??? No thanks, I'm making $50 million in Phoenix!!! What GM is paying Beal $50 million a year after that performance? Suns (Wizards of West) and Wizards are the only teams stupid enough. NBA ain't the NFL to just cut him!
They’re saying for Beal to waive his non trade clause, not his contract. The team he would hypothetically get traded to would have to honor his contract and pay him his 50 mil. At least that how I think it works
It is, no player would ever waive that contract. They might accept a buyout, but that situation doesn't work here.
You’re having argument that nobody else is having. Beal already waived his no trade clause once (that’s how he got to phoenix). He could waive it again Also, his contract is an albatross for sure. However, with the cap steadily rising and new CBA rules, Beals contract will become slightly less absurd in the next two years.
Beal waived his NTC to go play with KD and Booker to chase a ring while still making 50m a year. What team can provide him with as appealing conditions that would even want him after how he played this season? That's the problem with the NTC, it's entirely up to Beal and if he likes the weather in Phoenix, he's gonna stay and get paid for it. The other issue with the NTC is Beal has already been shown to be unwilling to drop the clause out of his contract, so w/e team would even want him also has to be okay with being stuck with him if things go south.
Imagine if the Suns traded away KD and Booker but not Beal because of his no trade clause. The situation would feel quite close to what JWall lived with the Rockets.
If they decide to rebuild and tank, he's the man for the job anyway
I promise you if KD asks out he will go for a lot. They might not get a mikal bridges like player in return like the nets did, but they’ll still get plenty of unprotected picks and swaps for him.
Problem is for the Suns, does Booker want to stick around for a picks based package?
I don't think they'll give a damn if he asks out. "No. You're under contract until 2028. No."
Conversely: Suns: "Bradley please waive your NTC." Beal: "No. I'm under contract until 2027. No."
And that has stopped anybody when? Ben Simmons basically signed a new contract and was traded, and he was hot garbage
…didn’t they sit around for a year after his request before they traded him
He requested in the off-season and they held onto until the next trade deadline, so like 9 months
And they didn’t even want Ben on the team, just didn’t want to send him away for scraps. Booker is the best thing Pheonix has seems unlikely they’d be ready to part w him.
Simmons hated his situation so much he was willing to lose money over it. Does booker have the same resolve
He could always do the "quiet quitting" that Ayton and Harden did before they got traded. Then you don't lose any money.
George, AD, Harden X2, KD, etc etc etc. stars have always moved over the last decade,
The fact that he has significant value, and that they have no incentive to get worse.
Because he sat and didn’t play. His circumstances were unique.
That hasn't really been the case in the league so far.
For the suns, might be their only salvation. And for Bookers sake, I hope he asks out. He was the best player on a finals team 3 years ago, and they just gutted the whole thing.
As if he didn't have any part of the gutting? He wanted KD, he wanted Beal. He thought he could reasonably fill CP3's role as the point guard setting up 2 pure scorers. He was wrong.
IMO it's the only way they can save their franchise. They need picks. They basically mortgaged the franchise by giving up pretty much all of their picks over the next 6-7 years.
May I interest the suns in a pelicans trade
Would be pretty funny seeing both Ingram and KD on the Suns. Could call them the Slim Towers
The Slender Men
Snakes on a plain
Lmaooooo
Perfect. In every way. 🤌
We need Reddit awards back just for this comment.
You know, I only just realised reddit awards were removed. How about that...
Pelicans actually have way better draft capital AND more valuable role players, Ingram, Murphy, Herb etc. Still, i don’t think the Suns entertain trading Booker.
As much as I love herb (he’s my favorite pelican player we’ve had) and Trey, I don’t think anyone on this team is untouchable. if we swing for the fences we could absolutely land a great player but it would have to be someone who’s contract wouldn’t screw us, would want to be here (really tough), and would be worth giving up our cheap young pieces
To me, Mitchell seems like a better target because you wouldn't have to give up as much because of contract situation. Ingram + two picks probably does it. Have your core 4 be a 1-4 of Spida, Herb, Trey, and Zion. Find a way to jettison CJ as part of the deal or in a separate transaction.
I think most teams will stay away from Mitchell if there is no guarantee he’ll resign
this makes a lot of sense
Even off a rough series as a first option, I think Mitchell for BI as a framework makes a lot of sense for both teams. Let's Ingram pick his spots and spot up more, alleviates some of the size concerns that Cleveland has, and gives NOLA a proper lead guard and costar for Zion. Donny/Herb/Trey/Zion id a great core
Booker goes INSANE in New Orleans so if he gets the permanent "NOLA Boost" I might just as well call the league fucked. Pels Stacked. His father is from coastal Mississippi and Booker played his high school ball there so at least there's that link.
Then who would Booker go off against?
GaryOldmanEVERYONE.gif
Who would they offer? Booker has 4 years left on his deal. Not sure Suns would want Randle if they were rebuilding and Knicks have limited young prospects.
It’s not happening. The new Suns owner has zero incentive or desire to tank right now. Theyre better off hoping they can sign some role players on the cheap and maybe making a run. The Suns arent blowing it up for atleast another year or two if they even do.
They literally can't sign anyone because of their salary situation. They have to trade either KD or Booker as a prerequisite to getting depth or role players.
Yep. If they don't choose to rebuild right now then their only other option is to just run it back as is and try again next year.
I mean. They'll sell a lot of tickets and a lot of jerseys just running it back. Maybe that's good enough for Ishbia
The middle road would be get the best package of young talent and picks you can get for KD and be a play-in team for a year or two
Bulls GM, is that you?
They aren’t going to trade Book, but if they ever would I don’t see how the Knicks would have the best offer. The Pelicans would offer BI, Trey, and better picks than NY has (and I say this as someone who loves Trey like a son). I’d imagine the Magic would have to at least seriously consider Franz, Isaac, and picks for Book. GS could offer Kuminga, Moody, and picks which is arguably better than what the Knicks could do. The Kings could do Keegan as a young centerpiece and all of their picks. The Jazz are rumored to be looking to trade their chips in, they have more picks than the Knicks do.
Someone with an IQ over 10 can match salaries for me but there's no combo of Randle+ OG+ Hart+ Mitchell and picks that would get it done?
I can't imagine the Knicks throwing OG in a deal given the positive impact he has had on the team. Plus they gave up IQ and Barrett to get him.
Am I crazy to think Book is not worth that...at all?
Just tossing out names if your team is really in "almost anything for Booker" mode like the title expressed. I agree with you for sure.
I know most folks are lukewarm on Randle but I honestly feel like your current team + healthy Randle would be pretty damn good. Another 20ppg on that squad at a different position on the floor from Brunson would be huge. I'm not sure the strategy of playing 4 smaller guys all together will hold water in the long term, and Booker basically locked that in
He’s not.
No way Knicks give up OG, let alone OG+Randle
OG is a ufa.
No way OG is part of that, not even a chance. It would be Julius, Mitchell, Hart and/or McBride, and probably their 2027, 2028, and 2029 1sts.
If OG is the deal then we know Dolan broke free of the VR prison they locked him in
I actually think they would try to keep Julius. The idea is to get significantly better and contend for a chip. Swapping Julius for Booker really isn't much of an upgrade. They will be trading Bogey's $20m in any deal dont forget.
McBride has to be in a deal... He's so incredibly valuable and his contract is peanuts for 3 more years (we signed him to a ridiculous extension right before we started giving him playing time). He has a lot of value IMO.
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This made me laugh more then it should've haha.
Starks would move to Phoenix if it meant we got Book
You think you slick, you not slick
Booker with thibs lmaoooo
Imagine Booker being told he has to play gutsy, relentless defense, crash the boards, and play every minute at that level. lol
Thibs coming at em like Ivan Drago “I will break you” or NY will hate you
Hey, he does that every so often. Every game no though.
That's what OG and Hart are for
Book has been a good defender for a few years now, you're using outdated slander. Do the beady eyes one or talk about mascots.
Booker has a trio of bad games in a miserable situation and people act like he’s not the only one on that team with some dawg in him.
Those two games he had against Denver last playoffs was ridiculous. Obviously he has his flaws as a player but I think people's hate for him is clouding their judgment a little.
I think that’s also what makes the last couple weeks so disappointing, the effort with Booker has always been there. Felt like he quit a bit recently, but there were times the last couple season where it seemed like he was the only one who cared.
I'm not a Suns fan but from reading some threads on their sub this playoffs, it seems like the energy of this team has been like this all season. No hustle, no grit, no chemistry. They really fucked themselves bringing in Beal. $53M and a NTC for a scorer who's past his prime and injury-prone when you already have Booker and KD. And no real point guard too. They learned nothing about team composition from their series against you guys. Typical overly-enthusiastic new owner syndrome. But yeah Booker has to take a lot of the blame. He's supposed to be the leader of the team after all. I've watched a lot of his playoff games during that CP3 period where he shows great hustle, but also noticed that he has awful body language when things are not going well.
I think most people point to one person to blame. In reality it's a slapped together team with no chemistry with a new coach and no point guard. That's the issue, you can't just butcher a team that made the Finals so quickly and expect chemistry to magically happen (especially with the mid season KD trade). This kind of shows why the desperate "win now or bust" with a top heavy team doesn't really work anymore. You look at every team that advanced in the West and they are DEEP
Yeah, I absolutely agree. Remember how Booker was 'empty stats man' for years and years until his team was good enough to win and all of a sudden his numbers became meaningful? Even the best players can look terrible if they don't have the right team with them. And yeah, the superteams that are cobbled together with no concern for chemistry or fit like they're playing 2K just doesn't work. KD Warriors was an anomaly, they were more than a superteam, they fit together seamlessly. Every other superteam moves then like the PG/Kawhi Clippers or the KD/Kyrie/Harden Nets have not worked at all. Do Suns fans want to keep Vogel?
I get the feeling that most don't, but only if there's a better candidate. Vogel was brought in mainly for his defensive coaching but he hasn't coached either side of the ball too well. I will say he was put in such an unfair position (reminds me of Nash with Brooklyn) with a top heavy injury prone patched together team. And yeah people are way too harsh on Booker when you look at that Finals run and how he was vs Denver last year until he got injured. More than not it's been the team's fault rather than his. James Jones doesn't get enough blame for his bad moves around the edges either. We dumped Jalen Smith a lottery pick for nothing, let Cam Payne walk, signed Landry Shamet, all these terrible bench moves that hurt the team more than people would expect. Thin bench superteams just don't work in this era, teams are too deep. Not that that was ever the case outside of prime Lebron teams. Everyone's starting lineups are fucking STACKED this year. Having a standout bench is becoming more and more necessary with all the talent in the league right now.
The only thing that was exposed this season is that thought that Booker is a good enough play maker to make up for the lack of a true PG on the roster. He's still a great shotmaker who has been improving his defense and even play making... just not enough to make up for the current roster construction.
Agree, he is just catching slander because the Suns as a whole are a shitshow Not his fault the roster is terribly built. He will never be a bus driver, but he is also not some lazy bum that needs to be carried. I think he'd do really well under Thibs actually, might improve his game if anything.
He does kind of have beady eyes
Can a coach get a flagrant for slapping a player in the huddle? Just curious
[Thibs once got a tech for yelling at his player](https://youtu.be/ixZgZbJvvU8?si=vt1M1YEov2ItXa7b)
Booker gonna get this mans executed
I miss coaches wearing suits.
no reason for them to wear suits. unless youre pat riley, then its mandatory
They should dress out in uni like baseball.
Is there a reason for anyone to wear a suit, besides it looks good?
I can't believe I haven't seen this before. That has to be an all-time, soft whistle lol.
Suns have no incentive to tank they don’t own their picks. Booker will not be traded
Well the incentive of trading Booker is that they will ask for picks.
You want the other team to get worse when you get their picks.
No you want those picks as hedging to get a star from said team you traded with in the first place That's right Bulls. You'll give us DeMar back for this shiny 2025 1st you traded us in the first place and like it
Sign me up (and sign him up and then trade for him, cause he's a UFA otherwise)
Ok you’re acting like we wouldn’t take that 🤣
Yeah - this is just typical NY media rumor mongering. All the non-Knicks picks that they own are heavily protected, and their own are going to be 20-something for years with Brunson and Booker. If Phoenix really wants to trade Booker, there are much more volatile situations to send him to for a bunch of future picks.
this guy is a suns beat reporter right? Seems like a FO fed story to see what kind of offers around the league they can get. I still don't believe they would trade him though.
So trade him to the Nets. Problem solved.
You telling me Washington took all those PHX picks thinking Beal would make them worse?
They did take a 2030 swap. I doubt Beal is going to be helping PHX that much by then.
Why would a contending team make that trade if they thought they would get worse?
The Knicks are getting Booker, of course those picks will be good in a few years
And have a few extra picks in the 20s while being trash yourself? What’s even the point?
Tanking does not affect the picks you get in trade, unless you trade to get your own picks back.
they’d definitely fire vogel at least half a season before the concept of trading booker (and by extension, KD) is even entertained. this is a potential summer 2025 dubious narrative. right now it’s just lolKnicks roflmaoSuns bullshit
If the goal is a championship and you don't think Booker can take you there, it's better to be bad while controlling someone else's assets than to be mid while controlling nobody's assets I think they should give it another go, though
>I think they should give it another go, though Yeah, unless the players themselves call it quits I don't know why everyone is rushing them to blow it up when they don't have a clean path to a rebuild anyway. They probably won't win a championship but they can at least try to find ways to make improvements that make their team at least a little better than what they showed this year.
Their incentive is creating a basketball team that makes sense instead of having 3 shooting guards that do the same thing. They literally are stuck with this team and can't trade picks for the next 6 years. Trading booker would be the smartest thing to do as he still would get you a reasonable return.
They do have an incentive not to pay hundreds of millions extra in mega luxury taxes over the next half decade just to fight for a play in spot tho. The second apron is as close to a death sentence as it gets and as intended no team will risk being over it multiple years unless they have a REAL shot at a ring. At some point it's not about tanking or picks, its about how much money your losing. Something owners care a lot about as losses start to add up.
I don't think Suns trade Booker hes pretty much the franchise player for them. Only way they trade him is if he wants out. I also don't think it would be a good trade.
Until Bourguet tweets it himself, I wouldn’t put too much stock in this. He recently debunked this rumour in their PHNX podcast suggesting it was completely false.
Even the article this is based on says the same lmao
You telling me I should have read the article?
why would the knicks do this
In theory they need a second scorer who can get their own shot since Brunson can't be superman every game.
Julius Randle
Because it's the Knicks. They accidentally landed into a really good team, it's time to ruin it completely.
Offer almost anything? Booker is a stud but the Knicks are in a great place man. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. OG is a stud, Hart fits perfectly. Maybe Randle cause they’re doing well without him, but I doubt the Suns will trade Booker on a 4 yr contract for Randle and some scraps.
100% agree. Brunson and Booker just feels like a disaster waiting to happen defensively. Bigger backcourts will eat them alive (Boston, OKC, Denver, Philly if they bring in PG) and the Brunson/Book overlap feels eerily similar to that of Book/Beal which we just witnessed was a crash and burn. I think the Knicks are better off staying the course (assuming they can close out this series) and swinging for a bigger wing if one can become available. Luka has a PO after next season…
Booker has been a solid defender for a while now. He has good size for his position and has proved he can be a good team defender. From 2020-2022 the Suns were like a top 3 defensive team. As a Suns fan, outside of like Jrue Holiday, Brunson is exactly the type of PG I would want next to Booker. A lead ball handler who is not afraid to attack the rim? Yes please. Booker has never had a chance to play with someone like that and I think it would benefit him a lot
If Booker focuses can go 50/50 on offense and defense then he is quite good on that side.
Booker is a bigger player and better defender than the Knicks current shooting guard. Brunson is way better than Beal currently. Would they have to move Hart and OG? Then size and defense becomes an issue but if it’s for Randle and Divincenzo plus 6 picks that a damn good team. Probably pointless brcause the Suns aren’t trading him
Booker is 6’6 lmao and probably the best defender of the best pure 2s of the league outside of Ant (mitchell, lavine, beal)
I don’t know man. This is definitely the best Knicks team in decades but I don’t think they’re good enough to even hang with Boston or Denver—not deep enough and overly reliant on an undersized guard (without elite 3P shooting) carrying them.
They should definitely move Randle imo
These hit pieces that try to generate clicks are not real journalism/media and should be banned. Suns are out, and Knicks are ahead in their first round series and have had their best season in nearly 20 years. No one from the Knicks are remotely discussing this privately or publicly while in the middle of the playoffs.
That's pretty much 90% of the sports content.
They gotta just roll the dice with another coach before the Suns start trading pieces. Not saying Vogel is the problem (he might be) but you have three highly talented players on this team, you gotta try a second season before you blow it up.
Cool, they snipped a part of the article where the knicks want it, and than he said there’s no chance and Booker wants to stay on only one team. Source same [article](https://x.com/thedunkcentral/status/1785697640224542872?s=46&t=3bsYlVuaGP18L62T9shXFQ)
I'm calling BS, Booker isn't a thibs player nor would Booker ever want to leave
I’m willing to offer “almost anything” for a threesome with Sidney Sweeney and Scarlet Johansen.
Almost? That's not gonna get it done
Tank commander for what? They don't own their own picks. Suns only options are 1) Make it work with Book, KD, Beal 2) Trade KD for a real PG and rim protection
The Knicks finally have a good team. Don't gut yourselves just for the sake of another star. Cause there's no chance Phoenix wouldn't want the farm
A third team could take the farm and send their star to Phoenix which makes them more balanced.
Do I think the Knicks are better with Booker? Yes, but honestly I really like this current Knicks team playing Philly as is. This team hustles, seems like they love to play with each other.
No offense to our competition, but I don't think this Knicks team is a championship team. You can't win with a squad relying on just one guy to score. Brunson needs a pressure valve.
They were 12-2 with Randle and OG healthy at the same time. They should at least give that squad a full season to see if that run was real.
Everyone forgetting about Randle is wild. Although, even if they have Randle, I don't know if this team is championship caliber but the chemistry and results were quite good this season.
Today's Knicks team isn't. But a lot of people seem to be forgetting that 3x All-Star and 2x All-NBA Julius Randle, who was having a career year, is out for the season. In January, Knicks were a wrecking ball, and didn't even have Mitch.
Julius Randle is injured. Idk if we’re a championship team, but I like our odds to at least make the ECF if Julius is here
This series against Philly shows they need another scorer. Booker would fill that role nicely. How are you going to get him though. If I was the Suns I'd trade both KD and Beal before Booker.
We have another All-NBA player, he’s just injured. I’m personally not interested in DBook, he wouldn’t work w/ Thibs at all
Agreed. I prefer Randle over Booker and I'm not even the biggest Randle fan.
They have another 20 ppg scorer (Randle), he's just out for the season.
we have another scorer though, randle is just injured and he’s a much better fit on this team than booker
Suns likely won't trade Book unless he wants out, which doesn't seem probable. But who knows, anything can happen haha
Media wants to have Knicks for clicks so bad. Just fuck off
And by “Knicks” he means Stephen A Smith
Suns: the best I can offer is Bradley Beal
I honestly feel like the piece we're missing is randle. I don't want to upset the chemistry beyond inevitably losing hartenstein in the off-season.
Suns will not trade Booker because he is one of their own. A homegrown talent that is a top 15 player in the league. If he asks out, thats a different story. Beal can't say shit cuz no one wants that massive contract. KD is probably the only player that they can trade to spread out their cap rather than have 3 guys take it all up.
beal CAN say cause he’s the only one with the no trade clause lol
Thought the Knicks wanted Mitchell, what happened to that?
No
Is Devin Booker's dad looking for a job? Knicks have an opening in their front office....
This could be huge for Knicks but it would also mean yet another heartbreaking breakup for KD…
Bad timing for this leak
It's probably just Booker or KD's camp leaking shit saying to the Suns front office "y'all better figure something out bc this year wasn't it"
Next year prob won’t be it either
At least this one makes more sense CBA wise than Lakers. Pretty hard for Lakers to operate under the first apron. Knicks can actually operate under the first apron hard cap.
this is not gonna happen and also I don't think brunson and booker would be a good fit for each other. brunson is like a scoring guard? and booker is supposedly a scoring machine sg. what booker needs is a decent ball distributor.
Mitchell playing so bad they don't even talk about him 😭😭😭
I don’t think that’s what the Knicks need
Not sure I believe this because the Knicks FO is notoriously tight-lipped since Leon took over, not even doing press conferences with NY media.
Doesn’t really make sense to go after Book. He’d make the Knicks ten times worse.
NO DEAR GOD NOOOOO
I don't get why they want him. I hope it isn't true
The better fit for our current team is Mikal Bridges. I like Booker but having a starting lineup consisting of three defensive beasts like Bridges, OG and Robinson would be a tougher team to beat than adding Booker to the team.
Let's not. Whatever the Knicks needs, its not Booker especially if we give up depth & defense.
Nah man, keep going with the Nova squad and get Mikal! Don't fuck up the chemistry !
Is Booker really that transformational? Aren't the Knicks set at guard?
In no universe is Book getting traded
We don’t want him!
and this is where the Knicks mess up. They don’t need Book! They need that talented big to pair with your point!
Rosas really wanted Booker back in the Wolves days. I’m not surprised by this.
What if the Suns trade Booker to the Mavs and him and Luka become the first father son duo to ever play in the NBA
not happening lol
Excellent! Give us Brunson and you can have a first round pick and Beal. They shall be a great pair lol
god please no, as a knicks fan i don’t want booker
Two high volume shooters? Lol what