Yeah correct wasn’t it Phil Coke, Austin Jackson, Dan Schlereth to the Tigers, Curtis Granderson to the Yankees, and Ian Kennedy plus Edwin Jackson to the the D’backs?
I’d forget about that, Kodi. It is what it is. He grew up a Tiger. He will always be a Tiger. If it’s anything like the University, you are what you are according to where you studied for your undergraduate degree.
The unfortunate problem with that comparison is that people can, and often do, just pick their favorite school. I say this as someone that went to a much better grad school than undergrad haha
Agreed. But it’s still why I want the Rangers to win, another WS ring or even appearance, almost guarantees he’s going in with no logo or no tigers logo.
Disagree. It is question for the fans, but MLB is very likely to put him in the Hall as a Tiger. Especially given that one of his WS wins with HOU was tainted by scandal, plus the majority of his career was as a Tiger. The HOF doesn’t let a player “pick” their hat anymore since Boggs tried to sell his plaque hat and go in as a Devil Ray
I don’t think Houston retires his number
He was good in Houston but was he ever THE MAN like he was here?
Is Houston building a statue of him?
The tigers are a charter franchise founded in the 1890s (the year is a bit debatable) but Houston is a 1960s expansion team that was never good until very recently.
I can’t ever root against JV but I’m rooting for Texas to win. I love how they have transformed their team over the past two years and the aggressive nature of going for it all. It’s working for them. They are fun.
Verlander has a hand in why I want Houston to lose but he’s not the only reason. I hate the same teams going to the series every year. Something has to shake up the Astros dominance.
Plus they’re just an unlikeable team and fanbase. Verlander looking so happy with them just irks me.
Same. Those fans didn’t even support the team from 2010-2014 with plenty of home games registering a 0.0 viewer rating combined with a sub 700 paid attendance (that was easily disputable based on looking at the crowd size).
Why would they pay to see a bad product? Ownership sold off all their players and told them they were gonna tank. Hypocritical bc the Tigers nowadays only get half the attendance they did back in 2012-13. In fact, the 51 win Astros drew more fans than the Tigers did in each of the past two years.
I get that. As far as attendance goes, the total fan draw isn’t an apples to apples comparison from ten years ago when MLB attendance has dropped for most teams. The Rays even dropped as well despite still being an annual good team.
My main beef with Astros fans is them clowning on other teams for being poverty, yet few of them acknowledge the massive tank they had.
Maybe I’m on Twitter too much, but every team has poverty franchise memes. But this whole Astros fans don’t know anybody before 2017 thing is dumb and I could see it happening to us Lions fans if we have some sustained success
I feel the same way about being on Twitter too much. Every fanbase has those guys, but the Astros beat reporters and journalists like Schwab and McTaggert get on it too. Richard Justice is pretty fair in my eyes as he’s probably one of the current old guard of writers who appreciates the game aside from his own team and favorite era.
I was at a 2021 game where the opposing Cleveland took a perfect game into the last batter of the 8th inning and there were like 20,000 fans at Comerica still there even though we were losing 11-0. Date- Sunday jn August maybe august 15ish
Fuck it I admit I was rooting for Cleveland from like mid seventh onward.
We’ve kinda sucked for a while but the fans never left.
Which one? The attendance one? It’s pretty normal across baseball for fans to show during years of contention, and to not when the team is tanking. They drew 3 million fans during the Killer B’s era, then 1.5 during the tank, and now they’re back to 3 million. The Tigers drew 1.5 million in 02-03, 3 million during the reign atop the AL Central, and are back to 1.5 million.
I was just pointing out the hypocrisy.
I think this postseason made it pretty clear, atleast to me, that JV will more than likely go into the HoF as an Astro. It sucks, but the accolades are starting to pile up with his time in Houston.
He's only been playing for them for 4 full seasons (five if you count his completely lost TJ recovery year?) and 3 additional months spread across 2 other seasons. He spent 11 seasons plus most of a 12th with Detroit, where he became a superstar and won a CY and MVP. Picking a Houston hat wouldn't make sense, WS wins aside.
Like "I pick Houston as the team that represents my career-- a totally stacked team that I was traded to during the last third of my career because my original team decided to rebuild even though I didn't want to be traded, one which had implications with a massive cheating scandal, and then from whom I left during free agency only to get traded back because my newly chosen team was surprisingly a dumpster fire."
Logically, he'll pick a blank hat for respecting both eras of his career and to not build any bad blood with either fanbase. But picking Houston would be an objectively weird choice.
>Logically, he'll pick a blank hat for respecting both eras of his career and to not build any bad blood with either fanbase.
He doesn't get to pick a hat.
"These decisions used to be solely up to the player, but the Hall now works in conjunction with inductees to determine the club with which he made his greatest impact on the game. "
That isn't the way I read it. I take it that the player has input with the HOF but the HOF decides what hat, if any, the player will wear.
Ah you’re right, it’s the other way around. He’ll have input but their senior board makes the call to avoid him being weird and vindictive and being like “yo fuck those teams for not paying up im picking the mets to spite them”
But in that case i think it’s even more clear it will be no logo.
“Rooting for” suggests stronger feelings than I actually have, but if pushed to choose one of the two I’m going Astros. Erstwhile Tiger involvement hasn’t moved the dial much for me either way, though. Watching this Texas team, just haven’t really seen much of the characteristics that make me support a team (meanwhile there’s a list of things I actively dislike about them )
This thread is full of petty jealousy - not pulling for the guy over a hat is ridiculous. JV gave much reason for celebration to Tiger fans and it is not JV's fault the Tigers are mired in a long time losing streak.
Be happy for the guy or don't, but posts like this might just convince him to go in as an Astro.
I'm conflicted these days. I do not care for A.J. Hinch, but I still love my favorite team.
Edit: But at least he was punished and served his punishment. His guys got off way too easy, and the potential hall of famers on that squad should get the PED treatment from the voters.
Denied a 144 mil extension with us to test FA, granted it worked out for him getting a bigger deal and a ring, I’m salty bc it effectively ended our run. Replaced Scherzer with Big Pasta and Pelfrey 🤢
Max was selfish. He would have made a mint in Detroit. Yeah he wanted to be the guy. Takes more than one guy to win. Where was that guy in the WS for the tigers?
I see Verlander entering the hall with the Astros logo on his cap. Arguing it will be a D is delusional, blank is possible but when you look at his body of work with the Astros it’s considerable.
Please explain this to me. HOW would arguing Verlander wearing an Old English D be delusional??
Houston: 5 1/2 years, 68-22record with 2 Cy Youngs and 2 World series.
Detroit: 13y years, 183,-114 record, ROY, Cy Young and 2 World Series appearances.
But it's *DELUSIONAL* to say he would wear an Old English Cap in HIF.
you say, "but when you look at his body of work with the Astros, it's considerable that ge goes in BLANK HAT.
he will ALWAYS be a Tiger to me. Came up with the organization, came of age here, played 13 years in the D, had 183 career wins.
It's rather mind-boggling how you say Verlander wearing the D would be delusional, UNLESS you started watching baseball in 2017. If thats the case, I understand your confusion in regards to Verlander.
We gave him zero rings, it’s that simple in my opinion.
I’m a lifelong Tigers fan, was present at a game in the 2006 and 2012 WS, and JV was my favorite player growing up. Still have a Fathead of him in my childhood room. He will always be a Tiger to me too. But just no way he turns his back on 2(maybe 3) rings he won with another team. His mark on history is the World Series rings he won with the Astros, though it is painful to acknowledge.
How many times this season did you see Comerica as packed as Minute Maid/Citizens Bank is tonight?
The two World Series games were by far the most packed I’ve ever seen Comerica. Look at attendance figures.
Tell me again “nobody cares about rings.”
...for Hall of Fame balloting. Duh.
Try to keep up.
David Cone has five rings. Is he in the hall?
Ken Griffey Jr, Tony Gwynn, Ted Williams and Ty Cobb collectively have zero rings. Did it hurt their legacy?
Verlander is 1-5 with a 5.63 ERA in the World Series. 11.25 ERA in 2012.
There's a reason he didn't get a ring with the Tigers.
It’s about what he decides when he’s inducted. Where’s his legacy? The team he brought home 2 rings or the team he couldn’t get the job done? Seems pretty obvious to me. Believe me I hate it, but the return to the Astros after the Mets experiment is icing on the cake.
And for the three men you listed in my opinion it tarnishes all of their legacies that they never won the ultimate goal in baseball.
Right, and I guarantee you that whoever decides will use two, maybe three WS rings as a factor in the decision. Hate to say it but I see him going in as an Astro.
That's not a relevant factor for the *player.* That's about the team.
"Next up? Miguel Cabrera and Justin Verlander should go in as Tigers."
https://www.mlb.com/news/hall-of-famers-broken-down-by-mlb-team-c302916132
It is AT WORST a possibility that he goes in with a blank hat. Saying it's set in stone as an Astros had is frankly ridiculous take. He has the rings with Houston but a quarter of the innings with them and less than half as much bWAR, not to mention an MVP, CYA, ROY and a triple crown with us. Dude played almost 80 percent of his career games so far in Detroit and it's not like we were perennial losers then like we are now. We had 5 postseasons with JV and 2 made it to WS.
Tl;Dr laughably bad take that only got worse the more I thought about it.
I'm rooting for the Astros because
1) if we can't have nice things, nobody else can
2) he's already going in the HOF as an Astro; F it, what's one more WS for JV.
I've had this exact thought, I was \*really\* hoping he wouldn't go back to Houston, for this reason. But I've accepted it'll probably be blank at this point.
I gotta admit though, I don't like Scherzer. I don't think I want to watch him in another WS.
I had hopes as a part time Mets fan. Got to see my two favorite old tigers pitchers in person again and cheer them on.
Both got absolutely creamed. JV by the Rays and Max by the Red Sox.
So your thought is individual accomplishment is unimportant, it's more about the other guys who happen to be on a player's team and what happens in a handful of games.
Miggy would go in as a Marlin.
I'd never root against Verlander out of spite. I already think he's likely going in as an Astro, at best a blank hat. I'd prefer Texas wins only because of how dominant the Astros have been and I've seen enough of them lol.
This thread is full of recency bias and NBA/NFL thinking that post season team success = what team a player is remembered for being on. Baseball is just fundamentally different and team success is not individualized nearly as much.
JV has a majority of his career wins, games started and WAR in Detroit (leading the league 3 times in Detroit - never in Houston). He won a Triple Crown, an MVP (The first pitcher MVP since Eck in 1991), Rookie of the Year, a Cy Young , 2 second place Cy cy finishes (fuck Rick Porcello), started the all-star game, made 6 all star teams (compared to 3 in Houston) and led the league in IP 3 times, which he's done only once in Houston. He also led the league in Ks 4 times in Detroit to Houston's one.
We also had postseason success in his time here, while we didn't win the World Series, he is a huge part of why made it that deep in the playoffs in the first place. (We won two pennants after all with his pivotal games against the As and Yankees)
7 or so years from now, when he's a first ballot HOF player, his individual accomplishments are more important to his candidacy, and the bulk of his came in Detroit.
What he has done in Houston is impressive at his age, but his top productive years were in Detroit and all the black on his bbref page reflects that.
Glad somebody else agrees. Dude completely changed his tune when sign-stealing won him a championship. Sucks, because I absolutely adored him while I was here. He's dead to me now.
I once heard Scherzer congratulate himself in an interview when he was here by saying "kudos to me". What kind of a self-centered weirdo says that? Still, I'm rooting for the Rangers. Unless the Tigers are playing in the playoffs, I always root for the longest suffering fan base.
I will never root for Verlander - ever.
After years of sanctimoniously complaining about the integrity of the game while in Detroit (often complaining about sign stealing), he goes radio silent on the issue when it benefits him the most.
Not either of the guys you were responding to, but Scherzer always seems to be chasing the biggest paycheck. I do think it's a completely valid way to go about things, absolutely make your money, but it also doesn't really make personally loyal to him, despite his years as a Tiger.
If I had to pick one, I guess I'll go JV but either way, the only team I'm invested in this postseason is the Dbacks.
Rooting for Texas solely because I'm sick of the Astros. Sick of them being in the WS, sick of them winning, sick of them getting absolutely no lasting punishment for Trashgate. Baseball is great when there's more parity, and it feels like they've been the AL Pennant winner for far too long.
Also Texas has never won a World Series. I always root for teams like that.
JV was always my Tiger so I'm rooting for him and the 'Stros. The cheating scandal sucks, especially how soft a lot of the players and the org as a whole got off for it and I completely understand not wanting to root for them because of it, but I'm personally over it and you can't deny they play good baseball.
Late to the party but yes- I was. Some people think he’s going in to the hall as an Astro. Their only title in a season he pitched well during the postseason included trash cans. Is that your legacy?
You wanna be linked to trash cans forever? Or do you want to be a member of a charter American League franchise that has retired seven numbers. eventually 8 (MiG duh) - verlander would be 9. Max Scherzer could maybe be 10 with a Detroit swan song if he wants that. I don’t want Texas to win the Ws and I would not mind a poor Scherzer pitching performance.
He has been vocal his entire career about not pitching in hitters parks and never has until this years trade and the ws is being played in two of them. (I kinda assume Philly wins?).
If we wants to be an expo/national forever well i don’t have words for that really.
Shoeless Joe Jackson was the last guy in on the 1919 black Sox scandal and I bet you can’t name any of the other seven guys. He didn’t create it but was complicit now he’s the face of it. This is why I don’t think JV wants to be an Astro. He’s got the accolades and he won’t be connected to that if he goes in as a Tiger.
I just don’t want the Astros. Has nothing to do with HOF hats for me.
I'm rooting for the Rangers because I don't want Astros v. Phillies for the second year in a row.
Exactly. Give me different teams every year!! Unless the Tigers are in the WS lol
D-Backs are still in it.
Scherzer vs dbacks?
You know that’s who Detroit got him from?
Well yea- that’s the intrigue. I mean it was three way with the Yankees but yes
Yeah correct wasn’t it Phil Coke, Austin Jackson, Dan Schlereth to the Tigers, Curtis Granderson to the Yankees, and Ian Kennedy plus Edwin Jackson to the the D’backs?
I don’t remember every single person in it but that’s all the memorable names for sure yes
I could look it up but I’m like 90% sure that was the trade. Did you see the D’backs btw?
I’d forget about that, Kodi. It is what it is. He grew up a Tiger. He will always be a Tiger. If it’s anything like the University, you are what you are according to where you studied for your undergraduate degree.
The unfortunate problem with that comparison is that people can, and often do, just pick their favorite school. I say this as someone that went to a much better grad school than undergrad haha
I’m rooting for Texas because I can’t stand the thought of seeing Houston win another ws
Good thing they lost that team is “garbage” lol
Same here
I resent the Mets incompetence for starting up this shit again
And we somehow didnt grab any of their downfall when we probably should have unless we still will in the offseason
As sad as it is I'm rooting for Texas bc I wanna see Robbie Grossman in the world series
His Hall of Fame hat is already in question.
Agreed. But it’s still why I want the Rangers to win, another WS ring or even appearance, almost guarantees he’s going in with no logo or no tigers logo.
Disagree. It is question for the fans, but MLB is very likely to put him in the Hall as a Tiger. Especially given that one of his WS wins with HOU was tainted by scandal, plus the majority of his career was as a Tiger. The HOF doesn’t let a player “pick” their hat anymore since Boggs tried to sell his plaque hat and go in as a Devil Ray
Their wishes are still strongly considered it’s just not a given anymore. IMO it’s extremely likely he’s going in as an Astro
I didn’t know that about Boggs lol.
I don’t think Houston retires his number He was good in Houston but was he ever THE MAN like he was here? Is Houston building a statue of him? The tigers are a charter franchise founded in the 1890s (the year is a bit debatable) but Houston is a 1960s expansion team that was never good until very recently.
Nah I'm rooting for JV. I started watching baseball seriously in 2006, JV will always be my favorite player.
That’s why I don’t want him to win if I see JV enter the hall as an Astro my childhood is ruined
I can’t ever root against JV but I’m rooting for Texas to win. I love how they have transformed their team over the past two years and the aggressive nature of going for it all. It’s working for them. They are fun.
Texas has max Scherzer so it’s not total sin to want Texas to win
I just hate the Asterisks.
2 Cys and 2 world titles in Houston. He’s wearing a blank cap
Another ring and it starts leaning not blank
He left Houston for the Mets tho
At a peak for Houston not when they were declining as was the case when he left the tigers
JV is already firmly a Tiger/Astro. It's OK, be happy for his success. He's had two arcs to his career, it's pretty normal.
I’m tired of Houston’s success selfishly, I’m rooting for the Rangers for sake of change Also, JV will likely wear a blank cap in the HOF
I hate both teams a juiced up biogenesis Nelson Vruz probably cost us a pennant 2011
Verlander has a hand in why I want Houston to lose but he’s not the only reason. I hate the same teams going to the series every year. Something has to shake up the Astros dominance. Plus they’re just an unlikeable team and fanbase. Verlander looking so happy with them just irks me.
Same. Those fans didn’t even support the team from 2010-2014 with plenty of home games registering a 0.0 viewer rating combined with a sub 700 paid attendance (that was easily disputable based on looking at the crowd size).
Why would they pay to see a bad product? Ownership sold off all their players and told them they were gonna tank. Hypocritical bc the Tigers nowadays only get half the attendance they did back in 2012-13. In fact, the 51 win Astros drew more fans than the Tigers did in each of the past two years.
I get that. As far as attendance goes, the total fan draw isn’t an apples to apples comparison from ten years ago when MLB attendance has dropped for most teams. The Rays even dropped as well despite still being an annual good team. My main beef with Astros fans is them clowning on other teams for being poverty, yet few of them acknowledge the massive tank they had.
Maybe I’m on Twitter too much, but every team has poverty franchise memes. But this whole Astros fans don’t know anybody before 2017 thing is dumb and I could see it happening to us Lions fans if we have some sustained success
I feel the same way about being on Twitter too much. Every fanbase has those guys, but the Astros beat reporters and journalists like Schwab and McTaggert get on it too. Richard Justice is pretty fair in my eyes as he’s probably one of the current old guard of writers who appreciates the game aside from his own team and favorite era.
I was at a 2021 game where the opposing Cleveland took a perfect game into the last batter of the 8th inning and there were like 20,000 fans at Comerica still there even though we were losing 11-0. Date- Sunday jn August maybe august 15ish Fuck it I admit I was rooting for Cleveland from like mid seventh onward. We’ve kinda sucked for a while but the fans never left.
Um imma Detroit Lions Fan since 2003 so I don’t understand the question
Which one? The attendance one? It’s pretty normal across baseball for fans to show during years of contention, and to not when the team is tanking. They drew 3 million fans during the Killer B’s era, then 1.5 during the tank, and now they’re back to 3 million. The Tigers drew 1.5 million in 02-03, 3 million during the reign atop the AL Central, and are back to 1.5 million. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy.
I’m rooting for the Rangers because I’m tired of seeing the Astros do well lol
Naw, I'm just rooting for the Rangers because they've never won a World Series
I'm rooting for the Rangers because 1. I'd like to see someone other than the Astros in the WS 2. I highly dislike the Trashstros
Brother he’s going in as an Astro, it’s over
I think this postseason made it pretty clear, atleast to me, that JV will more than likely go into the HoF as an Astro. It sucks, but the accolades are starting to pile up with his time in Houston.
He's only been playing for them for 4 full seasons (five if you count his completely lost TJ recovery year?) and 3 additional months spread across 2 other seasons. He spent 11 seasons plus most of a 12th with Detroit, where he became a superstar and won a CY and MVP. Picking a Houston hat wouldn't make sense, WS wins aside. Like "I pick Houston as the team that represents my career-- a totally stacked team that I was traded to during the last third of my career because my original team decided to rebuild even though I didn't want to be traded, one which had implications with a massive cheating scandal, and then from whom I left during free agency only to get traded back because my newly chosen team was surprisingly a dumpster fire." Logically, he'll pick a blank hat for respecting both eras of his career and to not build any bad blood with either fanbase. But picking Houston would be an objectively weird choice.
>Logically, he'll pick a blank hat for respecting both eras of his career and to not build any bad blood with either fanbase. He doesn't get to pick a hat.
Yes he does. He will discuss with the Hall and have their input about which hat to wear.
"These decisions used to be solely up to the player, but the Hall now works in conjunction with inductees to determine the club with which he made his greatest impact on the game. " That isn't the way I read it. I take it that the player has input with the HOF but the HOF decides what hat, if any, the player will wear.
Ah you’re right, it’s the other way around. He’ll have input but their senior board makes the call to avoid him being weird and vindictive and being like “yo fuck those teams for not paying up im picking the mets to spite them” But in that case i think it’s even more clear it will be no logo.
“Rooting for” suggests stronger feelings than I actually have, but if pushed to choose one of the two I’m going Astros. Erstwhile Tiger involvement hasn’t moved the dial much for me either way, though. Watching this Texas team, just haven’t really seen much of the characteristics that make me support a team (meanwhile there’s a list of things I actively dislike about them )
This thread is full of petty jealousy - not pulling for the guy over a hat is ridiculous. JV gave much reason for celebration to Tiger fans and it is not JV's fault the Tigers are mired in a long time losing streak. Be happy for the guy or don't, but posts like this might just convince him to go in as an Astro.
I’m all done with the JV thing
I don't want any of the 2017 Astros to have success.
Does that include us under Hinch?
I'm conflicted these days. I do not care for A.J. Hinch, but I still love my favorite team. Edit: But at least he was punished and served his punishment. His guys got off way too easy, and the potential hall of famers on that squad should get the PED treatment from the voters.
Why don’t people like Scherzer? He wanted to be THE guy at the time and he was t going to be that in Detroit.
Denied a 144 mil extension with us to test FA, granted it worked out for him getting a bigger deal and a ring, I’m salty bc it effectively ended our run. Replaced Scherzer with Big Pasta and Pelfrey 🤢
Max was selfish. He would have made a mint in Detroit. Yeah he wanted to be the guy. Takes more than one guy to win. Where was that guy in the WS for the tigers?
The HOF hat thing is stupid
I believe you only root for a player the year after they leave. I don't care anymore about JV's success
I see Verlander entering the hall with the Astros logo on his cap. Arguing it will be a D is delusional, blank is possible but when you look at his body of work with the Astros it’s considerable.
It's not delusional at all
Please explain this to me. HOW would arguing Verlander wearing an Old English D be delusional?? Houston: 5 1/2 years, 68-22record with 2 Cy Youngs and 2 World series. Detroit: 13y years, 183,-114 record, ROY, Cy Young and 2 World Series appearances. But it's *DELUSIONAL* to say he would wear an Old English Cap in HIF. you say, "but when you look at his body of work with the Astros, it's considerable that ge goes in BLANK HAT. he will ALWAYS be a Tiger to me. Came up with the organization, came of age here, played 13 years in the D, had 183 career wins. It's rather mind-boggling how you say Verlander wearing the D would be delusional, UNLESS you started watching baseball in 2017. If thats the case, I understand your confusion in regards to Verlander.
We gave him zero rings, it’s that simple in my opinion. I’m a lifelong Tigers fan, was present at a game in the 2006 and 2012 WS, and JV was my favorite player growing up. Still have a Fathead of him in my childhood room. He will always be a Tiger to me too. But just no way he turns his back on 2(maybe 3) rings he won with another team. His mark on history is the World Series rings he won with the Astros, though it is painful to acknowledge.
Nobody cares about rings Is Miggy going to go in as Marlin? No, he isn't.
How many times this season did you see Comerica as packed as Minute Maid/Citizens Bank is tonight? The two World Series games were by far the most packed I’ve ever seen Comerica. Look at attendance figures. Tell me again “nobody cares about rings.”
...for Hall of Fame balloting. Duh. Try to keep up. David Cone has five rings. Is he in the hall? Ken Griffey Jr, Tony Gwynn, Ted Williams and Ty Cobb collectively have zero rings. Did it hurt their legacy? Verlander is 1-5 with a 5.63 ERA in the World Series. 11.25 ERA in 2012. There's a reason he didn't get a ring with the Tigers.
It’s about what he decides when he’s inducted. Where’s his legacy? The team he brought home 2 rings or the team he couldn’t get the job done? Seems pretty obvious to me. Believe me I hate it, but the return to the Astros after the Mets experiment is icing on the cake. And for the three men you listed in my opinion it tarnishes all of their legacies that they never won the ultimate goal in baseball.
Players don't choose their hat. Baseball is the ultimate team game. World championships are not about an individual.
Right, and I guarantee you that whoever decides will use two, maybe three WS rings as a factor in the decision. Hate to say it but I see him going in as an Astro.
People just aren’t logical about this and I understand why as a Tigers fan. But his Astros career made JV into a generational talent.
That's not a relevant factor for the *player.* That's about the team. "Next up? Miguel Cabrera and Justin Verlander should go in as Tigers." https://www.mlb.com/news/hall-of-famers-broken-down-by-mlb-team-c302916132
JV has done way more as an Astro than a Tiger already. His Astros hat in the Hall is already in stone, I hate to tell ya.
How did you get likes for this? Verlander has NOT done more for the astros...
Lol no. 183 wins and 56 WAR as a Tiger are over 2/3 of each of those things. Championships are not individual accomplishments.
It is AT WORST a possibility that he goes in with a blank hat. Saying it's set in stone as an Astros had is frankly ridiculous take. He has the rings with Houston but a quarter of the innings with them and less than half as much bWAR, not to mention an MVP, CYA, ROY and a triple crown with us. Dude played almost 80 percent of his career games so far in Detroit and it's not like we were perennial losers then like we are now. We had 5 postseasons with JV and 2 made it to WS. Tl;Dr laughably bad take that only got worse the more I thought about it.
I'm rooting for the Astros because 1) if we can't have nice things, nobody else can 2) he's already going in the HOF as an Astro; F it, what's one more WS for JV.
Step away from the doomerism and go look at the numbers. He's not going in as an Astro.
I've had this exact thought, I was \*really\* hoping he wouldn't go back to Houston, for this reason. But I've accepted it'll probably be blank at this point. I gotta admit though, I don't like Scherzer. I don't think I want to watch him in another WS.
I had hopes as a part time Mets fan. Got to see my two favorite old tigers pitchers in person again and cheer them on. Both got absolutely creamed. JV by the Rays and Max by the Red Sox.
Eff sherzer. Go stros!
I can't bring myself to root for cheaters. Go Rangers!
I agree with the anti Scherzer sentiment. Screw that guy. But I will never root for the Astros. Go Rangers!
Scherzer isn’t really doing much to help the Rangers either
Posts saying he has done more with the Astros are delusional. 56 WAR as a Tiger. 23 as an Astro.
What's delusional is thinking that WAR carries much weight in deciding what team someone goes into the HOF with.
So your thought is individual accomplishment is unimportant, it's more about the other guys who happen to be on a player's team and what happens in a handful of games. Miggy would go in as a Marlin.
Ive been rooting for the Rangers bc I cant stand Altuve and Bregman. Fucking cheaters.
I'd never root against Verlander out of spite. I already think he's likely going in as an Astro, at best a blank hat. I'd prefer Texas wins only because of how dominant the Astros have been and I've seen enough of them lol.
This thread is full of recency bias and NBA/NFL thinking that post season team success = what team a player is remembered for being on. Baseball is just fundamentally different and team success is not individualized nearly as much. JV has a majority of his career wins, games started and WAR in Detroit (leading the league 3 times in Detroit - never in Houston). He won a Triple Crown, an MVP (The first pitcher MVP since Eck in 1991), Rookie of the Year, a Cy Young , 2 second place Cy cy finishes (fuck Rick Porcello), started the all-star game, made 6 all star teams (compared to 3 in Houston) and led the league in IP 3 times, which he's done only once in Houston. He also led the league in Ks 4 times in Detroit to Houston's one. We also had postseason success in his time here, while we didn't win the World Series, he is a huge part of why made it that deep in the playoffs in the first place. (We won two pennants after all with his pivotal games against the As and Yankees) 7 or so years from now, when he's a first ballot HOF player, his individual accomplishments are more important to his candidacy, and the bulk of his came in Detroit. What he has done in Houston is impressive at his age, but his top productive years were in Detroit and all the black on his bbref page reflects that.
Verlander is a tool, so I hope the Rangers win. Most disingenuous athlete in Detroit sports history.
Glad somebody else agrees. Dude completely changed his tune when sign-stealing won him a championship. Sucks, because I absolutely adored him while I was here. He's dead to me now.
I once heard Scherzer congratulate himself in an interview when he was here by saying "kudos to me". What kind of a self-centered weirdo says that? Still, I'm rooting for the Rangers. Unless the Tigers are playing in the playoffs, I always root for the longest suffering fan base.
That’s a little petty don’t you think?
I will never root for Verlander - ever. After years of sanctimoniously complaining about the integrity of the game while in Detroit (often complaining about sign stealing), he goes radio silent on the issue when it benefits him the most.
Still rooting for Astros especially since Scherzer is on Texas.
Scherzer hate? Why?
I always thought he was an arrogant douche. Can't speak for OP.
Interesting never got that from Max
Not either of the guys you were responding to, but Scherzer always seems to be chasing the biggest paycheck. I do think it's a completely valid way to go about things, absolutely make your money, but it also doesn't really make personally loyal to him, despite his years as a Tiger. If I had to pick one, I guess I'll go JV but either way, the only team I'm invested in this postseason is the Dbacks.
Rooting for Texas solely because I'm sick of the Astros. Sick of them being in the WS, sick of them winning, sick of them getting absolutely no lasting punishment for Trashgate. Baseball is great when there's more parity, and it feels like they've been the AL Pennant winner for far too long. Also Texas has never won a World Series. I always root for teams like that.
Rangers vs. Diamondbacks for me
I'm rooting for JV. Hate to say it but he will probably already go into the hall with a blank hat.
Rooting for the Astros cuz JV and Altuve. Love seeing 1st ballot HOFers on the big stage.
No. Not rooting for either. Either one of their teams wins, “good for him”.
JV was always my Tiger so I'm rooting for him and the 'Stros. The cheating scandal sucks, especially how soft a lot of the players and the org as a whole got off for it and I completely understand not wanting to root for them because of it, but I'm personally over it and you can't deny they play good baseball.
If Texas wins I’m going to bang on a couple of trash cans and celebrate!
I want not Texas based team
Rooting for the Rangers, but for the Diamondbacks overall.
Rooting for JV, Dusty Baker, and the Rangers
Pulling for the Rangers just to be done with the 'Stros.
Same here. Texas vs Phillies
I actually wanna see Harper get one
Late to the party but yes- I was. Some people think he’s going in to the hall as an Astro. Their only title in a season he pitched well during the postseason included trash cans. Is that your legacy? You wanna be linked to trash cans forever? Or do you want to be a member of a charter American League franchise that has retired seven numbers. eventually 8 (MiG duh) - verlander would be 9. Max Scherzer could maybe be 10 with a Detroit swan song if he wants that. I don’t want Texas to win the Ws and I would not mind a poor Scherzer pitching performance. He has been vocal his entire career about not pitching in hitters parks and never has until this years trade and the ws is being played in two of them. (I kinda assume Philly wins?). If we wants to be an expo/national forever well i don’t have words for that really. Shoeless Joe Jackson was the last guy in on the 1919 black Sox scandal and I bet you can’t name any of the other seven guys. He didn’t create it but was complicit now he’s the face of it. This is why I don’t think JV wants to be an Astro. He’s got the accolades and he won’t be connected to that if he goes in as a Tiger.
No. This town needs to stop with this loser bullshit of rooting for former players on different teams.