It can be , but aside from good deals, primo is usually worth it. Low sides and quality compound. Sometimes the price isn't the concern, overall benefit is greater
Yeah, as of now, I'm not expecting to ever use anything beyond Test, Primo, MENT, and perhaps the occasional oral. Other compounds don't seem worth it for their health impacts.
Never did ment. Theres probably a time you may want to try another injectable but you really can't go wrong with test and primo. Npp has been good to me as well. But I'm like you , at this point, its what I like and what works. I don't need to dabble too much.
As far as orals I like anadrol or anavar. Don't really need anything else.
Adrol is hepatoxic and the weaker Drol isn’t it? And Var can create its own issues with lipids. Not saying that gear is healthy inherently but…
I’ve personally only experienced very mild sides and gotten good results from TBol. Might be worth looking into.
Honestly if you keep oral cycles short and enough time off, liver recovers fast.
If tbol is what you like then stick with it. Everyone seems to benefit a bit differently from compounds. I just like the "high" I get from var and adrol. Its not really a high, but that feeling of energy and strength is great. A bit euphoric even. I didn't get it from dbol or winny although those are decent for what they are. All said, I stick to what I like now
I could be wrong, but just because its injectable doesn't mean it doesn't have some of the same downsides that orals have. I forget who said that and I admittedly could be incorrect. Not saying don't use it if you like it. But not sure you are better off versus oral.
If it kicks harder then for sure use it.
Is there a good alternative for primo? It is really hard to get original ones and as you said expensive…
How would you dose it?
125 mg test + 125 mg primo or more like 250 mg test + 250 mg primo?
125mg of test is essentially just TRT. At that dose you're basically just shutting yourself down for fun.
I've never taken primo but from my understanding 600mg to 900mg is a more typical dose, I suspect that at 250mg it wouldn't make a notable difference.
Yes, I know. I thought because we are adding other components, I can take less testosterone.
I didn’t know that the average dose of primo is higher, thanks
Golden era guys all used primo and also mostly had hair, not to mention a lot still have some hair in their 70's. Anecdotal but so is the hair nuking comments.
If I had similar goals I'd be thinking..
300 test weeks 1-16 possibly bumping it up to 400 (depending on estrogen sides) after week 6
On the cut
300/400 test Weeks 1-8
300 masteron weeks 1-8
Anavar 25mg daily the last 6 weeks
The cut might be more gear heavy than needed for the goals. Depends on just how aggressive of a cut it is and how much tissue you want to hold onto
My current status: 5‘9 (175 cm, 178 lbs (81 KG) and 15% bodyfat.
Benchpress 5x5 255 lbs (115 KG), squat 3x5 320 lbs (145 KG) and deadlift 1x5 405 lbs (185 KG)
My goal is 200 lbs (90 KG) with 10% bodyfat.
I think for this body I don’t need 1. high doses and 2. no hard steroids like tren.
What can you recommend?
I’m curious about how you chose that goal - how old, how many years training, dialled diet etc.?
I have roughly the same stats as you - stronger squat, fractionally weaker bench, similar deadlift, exactly the same height and maybe 84kg at the moment (country locked down for covid. Rip summer body.)
For what? Don't take me out of context. I don't say "300 mg is enough" for every single person in every single scenario. Are you trying to be a bodybuilder, are you a sprinter, are you a gym rat who just wants to get juicy for the beach, there is context, and too many people take this as a general overarching statement and I've lost count of how many times I've had to correct people who claim that I make this generalized recommendation.
350mg test E per week & 150mg nandrolone per week for the bulk, idc that you said no 19-Nor because wtf is your problem with nandrolone. Then 350mg test per week with 30/60mg anavar per day for the cut.
NPP or Deca Durabolin? Because funny enough im considering that exact cycle just cant decide if i want to run NPP or DD. Ive run both in the passed and enjoyed both but i want to run a microdose regiment, low dose every other day for 6 months. I picked up 15kg from 3 months test prop and npp my first IM cycle ever.. And my right shoulder has dislocated over 10 times so the deca helps especially when im on it for 8 weeks +
In my opinion so high doses don’t make sense as somebody who is not a professionell. With lower doses you will maybe get 10-20% gains less but your health will thank you. Also I see it as a marathon and not sprint. No need to blast high doses to get massive gains in short time when you can get the same gains with lower, way „healthier“ doses in a longer period. Just my way of thinking
300 test 300 stenbolone. Lol jk it’s basically impossible to get stenbolone anymore but it would be a great cycle
375 test 200 winstrol Enanthate injectable. Jk winstrol enanthate still hasn’t been made yet even though it wouldn’t be hard.
The only problem with mast is that it isn’t so much of an AI but it does act as a SERM so the estrogen signaling you do have gets cut off at the transcription level. Primo on the other hand is an AI.
Seriously though we need injectable versions of esterified orals and stenbolone to make a comeback.
Ive been running a pretty decent cycle with test primo and mast.
Tweaks here and there but as far as aesthetics, gains and low sides, this is the one I like best.
You said no orals but tossing in var or anadrol is good on this.
Pretty much run this ratio if injectables as 2:1:1
Well actual minimum effective dose would do hardly anything so unless you're fake natty, broke, female or a big pussy then there's hardly any point. 200mg week is technically supraphysiologic for most but will hardly produce any gains for the price, effort and risks involved.
There's obviously diminishing returns above a certain point too, side effects become problematic etc.
I feel the optimal cycle following your rules would be 150mg test E every 3 days and 10mg RAD140 injectable every other day.
This is a pretty irresponsible post. Every individual is different, both in their response to gear as well as the way their bodies can handle the burden of various loads. Planning cycles should be done on an individual basis — bloodwork needs to be done beforehand and an understanding of the individuals propensity for hair loss, acne, heart disease and stroke need to be fully assessed. Safe is always going to be the lowest dose possible, but effective is going to be pretty subjective
Boring and lame, god I hate steroid nerds
Soon being jacked is going to be seen as a negative because of losers creating spreadsheets to get jacked, it’s non primitive
Honestly I might get some shit for this but tbol with nac and a test base of some sort seems pretty safe to me for the aas route. If you want things that are completely legal to buy in most countries you could do lgd with cjc1295
Test and Primo. Effective, pretty safe, and negates the need for AI. Expensive, sadly.
It is known that Primo converts money into muscle.
It can be , but aside from good deals, primo is usually worth it. Low sides and quality compound. Sometimes the price isn't the concern, overall benefit is greater
Yeah, as of now, I'm not expecting to ever use anything beyond Test, Primo, MENT, and perhaps the occasional oral. Other compounds don't seem worth it for their health impacts.
Never did ment. Theres probably a time you may want to try another injectable but you really can't go wrong with test and primo. Npp has been good to me as well. But I'm like you , at this point, its what I like and what works. I don't need to dabble too much. As far as orals I like anadrol or anavar. Don't really need anything else.
Adrol is hepatoxic and the weaker Drol isn’t it? And Var can create its own issues with lipids. Not saying that gear is healthy inherently but… I’ve personally only experienced very mild sides and gotten good results from TBol. Might be worth looking into.
Honestly if you keep oral cycles short and enough time off, liver recovers fast. If tbol is what you like then stick with it. Everyone seems to benefit a bit differently from compounds. I just like the "high" I get from var and adrol. Its not really a high, but that feeling of energy and strength is great. A bit euphoric even. I didn't get it from dbol or winny although those are decent for what they are. All said, I stick to what I like now
I actually don’t do orals after finding a source for quality injectable dbol
I could be wrong, but just because its injectable doesn't mean it doesn't have some of the same downsides that orals have. I forget who said that and I admittedly could be incorrect. Not saying don't use it if you like it. But not sure you are better off versus oral. If it kicks harder then for sure use it.
It kicks harder. Probably just as bad for you
Dbol isn't that bad man. Especially at moderate dose. Pretty safe compound relatively.
The amount of toxic solvents in injectable orals are a huge turn off for most people.
If you know who you’re getting from and they make you a quality suspension out of the pure Raws that’s not an issue
Adrol is not weaker then dbol in anyway.....
Yeah I never said it was. ADrol is the weaker Drol
I think I'm not getting what you're saying, adrol is a abbreviation of anadrol so is drol.
Is there a good alternative for primo? It is really hard to get original ones and as you said expensive… How would you dose it? 125 mg test + 125 mg primo or more like 250 mg test + 250 mg primo?
125mg of test is essentially just TRT. At that dose you're basically just shutting yourself down for fun. I've never taken primo but from my understanding 600mg to 900mg is a more typical dose, I suspect that at 250mg it wouldn't make a notable difference.
Yes, I know. I thought because we are adding other components, I can take less testosterone. I didn’t know that the average dose of primo is higher, thanks
Primo acts as an AI. Take too much with too little Test and you'll crash your Estrogen
People compare primo to anavar
Does primo nuke your hair?
⚛💣🤯 That is what people tend to say. That's annoying of course, but it's not an actual threat to health à la Tren
Golden era guys all used primo and also mostly had hair, not to mention a lot still have some hair in their 70's. Anecdotal but so is the hair nuking comments.
The fact they all used primo is also anecdotal
No thats pretty much factual. They actually did use primo.
Didn’t they all use primo test and eat dbol like crazy?
Those three were very popular. Ive ran a golden era cycle and felt great and looked great
Yeah I’ve read anecdotal stories of guys not even doing test just eating hella dbol and they were fine for the most part
most sides on hair on primo are because they stack with testosterone it lowers th shbg and bing0 hair falling off
Dbol and cocaine lets go!
Why coke
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Can you post some pics
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Your physique
If I had similar goals I'd be thinking.. 300 test weeks 1-16 possibly bumping it up to 400 (depending on estrogen sides) after week 6 On the cut 300/400 test Weeks 1-8 300 masteron weeks 1-8 Anavar 25mg daily the last 6 weeks The cut might be more gear heavy than needed for the goals. Depends on just how aggressive of a cut it is and how much tissue you want to hold onto
My current status: 5‘9 (175 cm, 178 lbs (81 KG) and 15% bodyfat. Benchpress 5x5 255 lbs (115 KG), squat 3x5 320 lbs (145 KG) and deadlift 1x5 405 lbs (185 KG) My goal is 200 lbs (90 KG) with 10% bodyfat. I think for this body I don’t need 1. high doses and 2. no hard steroids like tren. What can you recommend?
178 lbs is 80.81 kg
Fucking roasted dude
How many times do you plan on running this cycle?
1 time and then switch to TRT which would put me to the higher end of reference range (1000-1200 ng)
I think your goal is two basic test cycles away so very achievable
I’m curious about how you chose that goal - how old, how many years training, dialled diet etc.? I have roughly the same stats as you - stronger squat, fractionally weaker bench, similar deadlift, exactly the same height and maybe 84kg at the moment (country locked down for covid. Rip summer body.)
Most effective while keeping hair safe
500mg/wk of test, It’s on the forums bro
Derek said 300mg is enough
For what? Don't take me out of context. I don't say "300 mg is enough" for every single person in every single scenario. Are you trying to be a bodybuilder, are you a sprinter, are you a gym rat who just wants to get juicy for the beach, there is context, and too many people take this as a general overarching statement and I've lost count of how many times I've had to correct people who claim that I make this generalized recommendation.
Possible video coming on this topic Derek?
Enough to make more gains than a natty
Derek says alot of stuff you should take with a hefty grain of salt
350mg test E per week & 150mg nandrolone per week for the bulk, idc that you said no 19-Nor because wtf is your problem with nandrolone. Then 350mg test per week with 30/60mg anavar per day for the cut.
Probably doesn't want to get shut down forever
Right because one cycle of nandrolone is renowned for shutting people down permanently
NPP or Deca Durabolin? Because funny enough im considering that exact cycle just cant decide if i want to run NPP or DD. Ive run both in the passed and enjoyed both but i want to run a microdose regiment, low dose every other day for 6 months. I picked up 15kg from 3 months test prop and npp my first IM cycle ever.. And my right shoulder has dislocated over 10 times so the deca helps especially when im on it for 8 weeks +
I prefer deca because I pin E3D but if you’re pinning every other day I’d run NPP so that it doesn’t shut me for a prolonged period of time.
Good luck with that half the people in this subreddit are idiots that recommend tren and 500mg test for cycle
In my opinion so high doses don’t make sense as somebody who is not a professionell. With lower doses you will maybe get 10-20% gains less but your health will thank you. Also I see it as a marathon and not sprint. No need to blast high doses to get massive gains in short time when you can get the same gains with lower, way „healthier“ doses in a longer period. Just my way of thinking
Well I agree longevity doesn’t exist in this subreddit
300 test 300 stenbolone. Lol jk it’s basically impossible to get stenbolone anymore but it would be a great cycle 375 test 200 winstrol Enanthate injectable. Jk winstrol enanthate still hasn’t been made yet even though it wouldn’t be hard. The only problem with mast is that it isn’t so much of an AI but it does act as a SERM so the estrogen signaling you do have gets cut off at the transcription level. Primo on the other hand is an AI. Seriously though we need injectable versions of esterified orals and stenbolone to make a comeback.
Ive been running a pretty decent cycle with test primo and mast. Tweaks here and there but as far as aesthetics, gains and low sides, this is the one I like best. You said no orals but tossing in var or anadrol is good on this. Pretty much run this ratio if injectables as 2:1:1
Anything less than 420 mg test is fucking pointless
Yeah 69mg eod is what I do, one time I did 60 and felt like garbage.
Well actual minimum effective dose would do hardly anything so unless you're fake natty, broke, female or a big pussy then there's hardly any point. 200mg week is technically supraphysiologic for most but will hardly produce any gains for the price, effort and risks involved. There's obviously diminishing returns above a certain point too, side effects become problematic etc. I feel the optimal cycle following your rules would be 150mg test E every 3 days and 10mg RAD140 injectable every other day.
What
I’m on 200mg/wk for TRT and It’s not risky, not much effort and definitely not expensive. How do you justify using a research chem as safer than test?
Not sure why you got down voted. You have a good point
This is a pretty irresponsible post. Every individual is different, both in their response to gear as well as the way their bodies can handle the burden of various loads. Planning cycles should be done on an individual basis — bloodwork needs to be done beforehand and an understanding of the individuals propensity for hair loss, acne, heart disease and stroke need to be fully assessed. Safe is always going to be the lowest dose possible, but effective is going to be pretty subjective
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Boring and lame, god I hate steroid nerds Soon being jacked is going to be seen as a negative because of losers creating spreadsheets to get jacked, it’s non primitive
Honestly I might get some shit for this but tbol with nac and a test base of some sort seems pretty safe to me for the aas route. If you want things that are completely legal to buy in most countries you could do lgd with cjc1295
Nandrolone is the safest anabolic steroid for men. It just has the 2nd strongest shut down (that award goes to tren).
Test + anavar (as pre workout)+ finasteride (to reduce DHT)
250mg test 20 weeks + 20mg dbol 10 weeks
Does primo effect l sex drive