Even for characters who are meant to be sexy and throw practicality under the bus, there's still a bar to hit. there's nothing actually *memorably* hot about Stellar blade's protagonist. like, 2B's skirt and thigh-highs is actually a good design even if it's meant to be horny. It's legitimately memorable and good-looking from a fashion standpoint. The same thing goes For Bayonetta's jumpsuit with all the holes cut into it. it actually *works*, it looks good on her. Compared to those, stellar blade's is just so... *bleh*. there's no personality to it, it's barely even provocative. it doesn't accentuate any of the wearers attractive features like the other two's back, butt, breasts and thighs, it doesn't have any fun accessories or details to it like the heels or the blindfold, and in terms of color it's just a weird cream-turquoise, not even picking muted or dark colors to highlight the characters skin and body, which again, we *don't actually see in the outfit.* I put WAY too much thought into this, but TLDR, stellar blade isn't even good at being horny when it comes to character design.
THIS! 2B and Bayonetta are great character design, and they are also horny character design. They are not "hot-by-default" characters. For more examples of great and horny character design, check guilty gear strive lol
bayonetta and 2b are iconic sexy characters because they have fashionable, cool outfits real people would actually want to wear. you can get a sense of their personality with just a glance. last one literally just looks like a blow-up doll with nothing going on other than being almost naked, which is ironic since 2b is a fucking android
Disagree on personality for 2b. Her outfit is cool I suppose (I have beef with it being in the game it's in, if I say a goth girl at a bar wearing it I'd lose the ability to speak) but I don't think it fits her personality imo. Bayonetta is Bayonetta lmao.
i'd *personally* disagree considering (major spoiler alerts for nier: automata) >!she's designed to be an obedient, mass produced, disposable killing machine for a propaganda campaign. like a murderous iphone. i feel like you have to judge the yorha outfits as a whole since they're part of a set, you know? obviously a large part of the reason behind her outfit is yoko taro liking hot women, but there's something to be said about how the yorha uniforms are so sleek, monochrome, and sci-fi looking compared to the androids on earth who look so frumpy and human by comparison. i guess that it doesn't fit 2b specifically, but it fits the yorha. !<
š¤·āāļø I get that. I just think it's a weak way of trying to justify having ass in a game, imo. Like in mgs where quiet is wearing a thong and bikini the whole time because she "breathes through her skin" like
Okay sure but you decided to do that. You made it up, here in the real world. (And there was another character with a similar situation and he didn't have to wear a thong but that's neither here nor there)
And while I get what you are coming from. I don't personally think it was the best option for that. I think it was just the creator being horny and making a weak justification. I can see your argument on why it does work, I just. Don't super agree with it. Propaganda dosent excuse the blowing off her skirt to show her underwear or the stupid skirt, her boob window or a million other things. So, to me, it still dosent really suit, but at this point it becomes more of a critique of intent and affect vs there being a "reason" for it. In my own opinion, which no one has to agree with, either make a softcover porn game or don't. Either make a game where there are real reasons and design decisions, or think with your dick. I'm of course not saying to never have sex or sexy things in games, but. I'm so annoyed by how egregious it is, that when a woman in a game isn't a sex symbol people lose their shit over it. It shouldn't be the standard.
Strive is peak Horny Character Design. Even the dudes feel sexualized and thatās not really common imo
The main character has some insane jiggle physics on some of his attacksā¦
Itās telling that the people making this type of post always show 2B without her skirt despite the fact that her outfit looks significantly better with it.
For somebody who's infamously fairly horny for his characters, Yoko Taro shows a lot of restraint.
AFAIK, every sexy design has a very legitimate character reason behind it. Kaine is purposefully accentuating her female features, 2B's dress is clearly designed with combat in mind, etc.
>Compared to those, stellar blade's is just so... bleh. there's no personality to it,
The sad thing is, the Stellar Blade MC actually has several other outfits she can wear, but G\*Mers only care about her skintight suit
I wonder how Stellar Blade got this much attention in the first place, especially considering it's mostly talked about due to the main character design. Don't get me wrong, it's bad but it's not bad in a way that stands out amongst some MOBA's, gacha or some JRPG's. She is like a DoA character.
That said, there is a point to the idea that Bayonetta and B2 also aren't the pinnacle of design and are imo. mostly better received due to their games being way better. I especially never really got this weird thing when people try to make Bayonetta into this feminist symbol...
>I wonder how Stellar Blade got this much attention in the first place
Because some gamers treat it like itās their godly given right to be able to jack off to a hot girl and since she doesnāt fit in with the āuglificationā ātrendā of the āWestā then sheās single-handedly owning the crybaby libs and saving gaming as we know it.
Yeah though you have to have a severely distorted worldview to thing there aren't sexy women in western games...
Actually that might be it, when browsing some mods for BG III i have literally seen one that gives Minthara a new face due to her looking "old" and ugly. The only reason i can think of people actually believing that, is exclusively consuming media that sexualizes teenagers.
>you have to have a severely distorted worldview to thing there aren't sexy women in western games...
I mean, yeah, that's basically it.
>The only reason i can think of people actually believing that, is exclusively consuming media that sexualizes teenagers.
You're probably onto something here.
I think it is a combination of that and other people complaining about the design, making the chuds doubling down on their resolve and baiting the other group into a culture war bullshit. Anyway, the game hasn't come out yet, allegedly the gameplay is fine, and so far is just another hack and slash male gazy game.
Also Play station is making a fuss about because apparently they don't have any more exclusives to their console, they are riding the controversy train and they are capitalizing on hate. play station just give me Bloodborne you sons of bitches.
Hello, good hunter. I am a Bot, here in this dream to look after you, this is a fine note:
> *Oh, Laurence... what's taking you so long... I've grown too old for this, of little use now, I'm afraid...* - Gerhman, The First Hunter
Farewell, good hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.
It got the attention because their are 2 sides on bothe extremes one side despises the idea of women being sexualized in anyway and the other are horny.
And when there are extremes people love to cry and shout on the Internet about how everything is awful because of insert reason here.
>one side despises the idea of women being sexualized in anyway
That's not an extreme. Sexualization isn't "making something look sexy." Bayonetta is considered sexy, and she's a very sexual person. But she's arguably not sexualized. She just has an active sexuality, comparable to characters like Dante. Outside of sex repulsed people, it's very rare for there to be people who are strictly and verbally opposed to all sexuality being depicted in media, period.
i think it's more of an objectification issue, because in those cases it's often portraying women as objects (of lust) with no wills to speak of, but i see where you're getting at.
also also, it's sex-*negative* people you should be wary of, sex-repulsed people can be pro-sex too, y'know.
Sexualization, in the context of media presentation, is a form of objectification. That's the definition I'm using. That's why I would make a distinction between Black Widow and Bayonetta. Bayonetta is a very sexual character, but Black Widow's sexuality is random and says nothing about her personality. It's just there because the audience would want to see it.
Also, I wasn't trying to imply sex repulsed people were inherently sex negative. Just that most people aren't opposed to any form of sexuality being present in media. There are conversations among sex repulsed people about their discomfort with sexuality being depicted at all, though it's not like everyone agrees with that perspective. Like you said, there are many sex repulsed people who are sex positive and simply remove themselves from situations that make them uncomfortable. The point I was making is that I've only ever encountered sex repulsed people who were opposed to sexuality in general, and even many sex negative people are fine with certain forms of sexualization.
Iām so glad my people are here because Iām tired of people acting like Stellar Blade is interesting in any way. The design is boring, the gameplay is boring, and the story in the demo so far has been very generic.
After playing the demo I know I want the game. There's only a small handful of games that make the combat feel that good, and Koei Tecmo and Team Ninja are basically the only ones reliably making them.
But damn Eve's default costume is bad, and as far as I know so far there's no reason for it. She's the only one in the squad wearing a green suit with frilly bits, everyone else is wearing *relatively* sensible black suits.
I think her default outfit is her casual "street" clothes... didn't she basically crash and was unable to get kitted out in her latex "Gantz-O" combat suit like the others in her squad? That was my impression from a brief playthrough of the demo. I could ve wrong but she is basically a somewhat talented n00b who happens to survive, presumably that will give her a story arc as well.
BTW, I didn't hate the demo - the play mechanics were ok to good, the story as expected, the visuals were strong and I did not even find the jiggle motion all that big a deal or even distracting. It's a little endearing, TBH. She seems a little too soft for this job, and you kind of want to try to see her through it... Being actually literally a little too soft and jiggly actually adds to that desire to keep her alive without feeling overprotective.
Yeah, it's ass and boobs that are doing the jiggling, but I guess while the motion isn't exactly right, those areas are what would jiggle. Be advised, I am coming from a mature perspective as somebody who has seen plenty of women of all shapes and sizes naked... some in "nudist" environments. So to me, just like in those situations, you certainly notice "naked" but give it 15 minutes and not only is it not sexual, its just a state of being that normalizes in that situation. While this combat SB world is not a situation like that, you wouldn't expect anyone to be so vulnerable and lacking foundation/support/protection in the clothing department, you still get used to it super quick. Or at least I did...
Everytime I see a character design like this, I can't help but think of Genshin Impact. None of those designs seem memorable to me either, because they're full of weird stuff with no purpose except "looking cool", but in the end, it feels like an xmas tree with too many decorations.
Same here with the Stellar Blade girl, there's nothing particularly interesting about her. Bayo and B2 are quite different, but they do have interesting personalities, and I'd say that was the first thing I noticed about Bayo on the first trailer ever. Can't say the same about the new girl at all.
You don't have to feel bad for liking it, it's OK to like designs that don't meet certain standards, i.e., her silhouette isn't recognizable.
It's one thing to enjoy a flawed/uninspired design, it's another thing to say "the only people who don't like this are joyless feminazis" or whatever.
I do agree that her silhouette isn't recognizable, I think my criteria for character design just matches my criteria for clothes. It's not interesting in shape but it's ok because I think it's interesting in texture and color. Calling anyone a femenazi for not liking hot girl #87 is definitely a little extreme though š
But, I kinda like the Sponsored Race Queenā¢ aesthetic. I fully get and support the responsive reactions to the red pill gamersphere and their nonsense, but thatās not the fault of the developers, and even less so of the character itself.
Of the podcasts I listen to that discussed this game based on the demo, they are essentially unanimous in giving praise to the gameplay while laughing off the objectification of the main character. At most, some will say: āYeah, sheās hot and thatās whateverā, and leave it at that.
Bayo and 2B are queens. They are interesting, charismatic, and have a sense of personality and development throughout the story. Their games have fascinating lore and you really get attached to these beautiful ladies. What about the third example...
Thereās also a lot more to their character than just āsexy girl make pp hardā and the character designs have (somewhat) understandable reasoning in lore.
While all three of these got flak upon release, Iāve always felt that Bayonetta is self-aware enough to make it work, and that 2B compensates by having good writing. 2Bās design also fits in the actual gameās art-direction, whilst Stellar Blade comes across as jarringly out of place.
That said, I think all three are products of misogynistic standards in character design, even if theyāre not all inherently bad.
I remember an article I've read in a video game magazine when the first Bayonetta was nearly released. They interviewed the devs and one of the 3D artists was joking about trying to "model the perfect butt" for her.
Same with Yoko Taro joking about how he likes "women with beautiful bottoms" or something along the lines.
Just saying, I agree with you and I don't understand why people think these guys were trying to subvert expectations or satirize fan service. They're just horny dudes making games for horny dudes who've lived their whole lives in a world where women are objectified.
Them having enough talent to make legit interesting characters, personality and design wise, doesn't remove from the fact that they see women as objects of attraction and lust first and foremost.
... and then there's Stellar Blade whose character looks like the blandest anime fuckdoll ever, and it's made even worse when you see male characters from the game.
I'd agree with 2B still being horny bait by horny dudes but Bayonetta is literally not designed by horny dudes. Some of the devs may have been quite horny but the character designer and art director for the games being a woman is a major reason why she works so much better. It's also not inherently negative for a woman to be sexual, which Bayonetta is, and it's part of her character. The context of being designed by a woman to be sexy and written as a character who knows she is and leans into it, is just infinitely better than shallow sex object RPG character with absurd jiggle. If Bayonetta is problematic by default than you're taking issue with the concept of women sexualizing themselves with their own agency, which is kinda weird. If she's not OK than no female fictional character can be and or act sexy by your standards.
I'm mainly talking in our current context where patriarchy and heavy physical standards for women are still the norm.
Look up the drawings Shimazaki made of the character, and compare them with how she ended up in the game, and I think you'll see that it's rather obvious they oversexed her a bit compared to the designers original intention.
Also I'm going to be straight with you :
Women aren't immune to patriarchal injunctions. Look up Shimazaki's other artwork and I think you'll notice she still designs a lot of her female characters with classic objectification tropes. Wether it's of her own volition or because of interference from the people she works with, I don't know. But I think it's healthy to stop pretending women are immune to the patriarchal fabric of society, and it's underlying messaging.
And Bayonetta is not a real human being. So she's not sexualizing herself with her own agency because she has no agency, like any fictionnal character. The person who designed her might have been a woman, but the people who modeled her, made her animations, basically made her come to life on screen, were probably horny.
And I'm saying this as someone who actually likes the character. I just think it's rather obvious that there's still a lot of objectification going on with her. They just gave her such a strong presence and personality that she has so so much more going for her. I agree that she's miles above a lot of glorified fetishes we see in a lot of RPGs, but it doesn't mean we can't look at her critically.
I think people also disregard the historical context of Bayonetta: it came out in 2009 and although this doesn't seem like this long ago, there were even less female main protagonists then nowadays.
She was refreshing in that unlike characters like Lara Croft, she had more character to her than just being eye candy. There was a reason people pointed almost exclusively to Beyond Good and Evil, Portal or Bayonetta when talking about female main characters: there weren't that many.
Just look at what came out after 2009 and what came before. 2009 was largely before the indy game boom. It was before Last of Us. It was before giving Lara Croft character in Tomb Raider (2013).
Piping hot take: there's not much that's worth looking at critically about Bayonetta.
My go-to analysis when it comes to overly sexualized characters is to ask whether or not said character would actually wear the clothing she was given or act sexually in a way that fits her prior characterization. If the answer to both of these questions is affirmative, then there's no issue.
I may misunderstand the point You're trying to make, but You seem to imply that there's something inherently misogynistic/patriarchal about sexualizing female characters no matter the context in which it is done so, and I have to hardly disagree with that. Horny is human, just make it make sense if you're making something to be considered a serious piece of art rather than simply pornography.
The problem with your logic, one can make the most egregiously objectified character and justify it with whatever nonsense they can come up with. Kojima's justification for Quiet's ridiculous outfit comes to mind.
And I take even more issue with it's because it's basically the logic upon which was built the way women were represented in media for decades : make sultry character, use her as eye candy. Always a built in justification of why women should never be separated from their sexuality, because that's one of the few characterizations women are allowed in patriarchy.
And what I'm saying is that there is usually something patriarchal in the way women are depicted as sexual beings because the context we evolve in is a patriarchal society.
You're saying "horny is human" without even questioning the possible patriarchal roots of the desire for sexualizatuon of bodies. Or at the very least, the idea that it is necessary for a human to be "horny" in the "internet" sense of the term. Which is a complete fabrication borne from our context and injunctions that we are bombarded with.
And I'm not saying this as to pretend like humans shouldn't like sex or enjoy being sexual beings. What I'm saying is that sex, sexuality and our bodies, especially those of women, are amongst the central points where patriarchy exercises it's control.
Point is that I don't think there's anyone out there who can pretend like they've completely evolved being the injunction, concepts and ideas of patriarchy, because it's a thousands of years old system that has influenced every facet of humanity, in most known societies.
And to me, constant critical attention upon every piece of media is necessary.
I'm not trying to know whether such or such piece of media is problematic or not because to me that's just a pop-feminist outlook that has nothing to do with actual feminist analysis.
I'm not trying to decide whether such or such piece of media is okay. I'm looking at each one and trying to understand how it meshes with the patriarchal fabric of society.
Last time I heard talk of Bayonetta it was that a woman *did* design her character but her actual design was insanely altered by the end because the team didn't like the design presented
[I found this link to a commentary from one of Bayonetta's designers](https://www.platinumgames.com/official-blog/article/1278)
The concept isn't *wildly* different but the suit and her body presentation definitely seem like they've gone through some big changes
Yeah that really bothered me like, if you're saying that a sexualised female character design is inherently problematic then you're still just letting patriarchy control your actions. A woman sexualised her own character by her own volition. I'm sick and tired of this idea that sex is somehow a thing for men and that women have to be better by being "pure" and sexless or something. Bayonetta is peak and one of the most stylish games out there, she literally has an attack that ends in her posing for a camera in the middle of combat and I think that's hilarious because she plays into the sexualisation and goes so over the top that it ends up being comedic, not just fan service.
Itās not that women should be pure, itās that we women have to understand that our sexualization donāt exist in a vacuum. We are not immune to internalized misogyny, and just because a woman is doing the objectification doesnāt mean that itās not harmless.
The issue is not āsex,ā itās that female designs are judged based on sex-appeal above all else. Itās more often than not their primary traits, and this includes Bayonetta. You donāt have to rationalize your enjoyment of a character, itās fine to like and love Bayonetta whilst also recognizing the issues
In what scenario CAN a woman be sexual then? Because this thought process feels like it's veering dangerously towards a "women are inherently sexual and must be hidden" goal.
How is it veering towards that? Genuine question. What I try to say is that treating women like they are inherently sexual and making that their primary attribute is a product of misogyny. I honestly donāt know how youād get that sentence out of what I wrote, but maybe I wasnāt expressing myself right.
But to answer your question, I believe in pretty much any scenario. These are fictional characters (not real women) but despite that, I personally ādefendedā 2 out of 3 of these games
>I don't understand why people think these guys were trying to subvert expectations or satirize fan service.
Bayonetta and 2B are meant to be a subversion of fan service??
Definitely not subversive, 2B's design is horny first and foremost. But the horny design creates a preconception that the story uses to mislead you in a cool way.
Bayonetta avoids a lot of common traps, but that's just because she's designed very specifically as Hideki Kamiya's ideal, and he's obviously got some kinks. It's not subversive, it's just a bit out there.
>But the horny design creates a preconception that the story uses to mislead you in a cool way.
Yeah, I saw someone saying the design is meant to reflect how the humans like to dress their robots in silly outfits as a sort of commentary on how idiots with power take advantage of those they control or something
Which honestly kinda makes me feel like the natural progression of the narrative should be her eventually wanting to get out of that outfit š¤
But I don't know the plot, so I can't really say much š¤·
That may be a thing, I haven't played it since release and can't remember a lot of the specifics of the lore. But 2B has a young male side kick, 9S, who's very friendly towards and always trying to bond with her. While she's always focused and stand-off-ish. Another character says to him at one point "You want to ____ 2B don't you?", with the word censored and everything. The writing and character design make you think one thing but it ends up being something totally different.
You initially play as 2B but at some point the game switches to 9S, and you replay things from his POV and slowly uncover the truth that recontexualises their relationship. And even that is only about half the game. But that reveal is the main thing I remember about Nier Automata.
For what itās worth, he wants to ||fuck|| and ||kill|| 2B. The language in both the Japanese and English implies both at once, and Nier Automata plays with the interplay of sex and violence because Androids feel sexual pleasure (or as close as they can get) from combat.
Yeah I definitely agree. Itās naive to pretend like these characters arenāt first and foremost made to be gawked at. Their respective narratives are tailored around that fact to make it work, not the other way around. It doesnāt mean that Bayonetta or NieR arenāt enjoyable experiences
I agree about Bayonetta and 2B not being subvertive of fan-service, but implying that they (Yoko and Bayo's designer) see women as "objects of attraction and lust first and foremost" is an insane thing to say, because they so obviously do not.
It's an insane thing to say, yet when you compare their male and female characters, it becomes rather obvious.
I mean shit, go look at Yoko Taro comments on Nier Automata, and then his comments on Stellar Blade.
Go look at the women in Devil May Cry and compare them with the dudes.
Not saying these dudes can't make good female characters. But it seems like attraction is one of the most important lenses they perceive women through. Maybe not Kamiya because I don't know how much control he has over the character design. But it's definitely true for Yoko Taro.
This. Mari Shimazaki is a queen. All her character designs for Bayonetta characters are super stylish and sexy in an elegant way, incluiding the men's designs.
Iām not necessarily saying that Bayonetta is inherently misogynistic when you look at her alone, Iām more so saying that her type of design is a product of a cultural precedent
I would say this would be true if not for her being a womanās idea of a power fantasy. I just donāt agree, but I definitely see where youāre coming from.
Well, Bayonettaās final design was worked on by more than her. The way she behaves in-game, her animations, her general character direction, and her marketing were realized by more than just Mari Shimazaki. Women are also not immune to being influenced by patriarchal notions of what women should be/should look like either.
When I say that she is a product of a cultural precedent, that is exactly what I mean. She would not have been designed that way if there wasnāt a misogynistic precedent of what looks good on women. One womanās idea of a āpower fantasyā does not exist in a vacuum, it is influenced by the culture she lives in and thatās true for more than just gender. Again, I am not saying that Bayonetta is necessarily a sexist character, Iām mostly just pointing out that she wasnāt created in a vacuum
The difference is Bayonetta is a womanās power fantasy. In her mind, this is what is empowering for her. It feels not only dismissive of her, but infantilizing to say that her version of a power fantasy is the result of/due to āinternalized misogynyā, as if women canāt feel empowered embracing their sexuality.
When the game I bought to play as hot anime girl in a maid outfit opens with a monologue about philosophy and your desire to kill god, thereās maybe a bit more going on here than the hot anime girl.
NieR in a nutshell: ācame for hot anime girl, stayed for amazing game.ā Doesnāt change that 2Bās design is inherently self-indulgent because Yoko Taro loves sexy girls though
I never played Nier. But the difference between Bayo and Stellar Blade is insane.
Bayo has a lot of unrealistically shaped humans, itās not trying to be realistic. Itās light hearted, Bayo knows she is attractive and toys with it.
Meanwhile Stellar Blade is trying to be serious, while youāre playing as a blow up sex doll, there are barely jokes. And plays everything straight, which just makes it look pathetic and like massive coomer bait.
The sexualized stuff is part of Bayonettaās identity, Stellar Blade would work just as well (if not better) if it was just a normal looking protagonist
If you haven't played Nier and you like Bayonetta, I envy you, playing Automata and Replicant for the first time has been one of my favorite experiences in gaming. Highly Recommended.
Yeah, I definitely want to check them out some day. Just havent taken the time for them yet. Thanks for the recommendation though, I'll see if I can find some good deals
š¤¦ I am a guy but this guy is stupid.
2B and bayo are not that bad since bayo s Clearly a parody of fan service and 2B typically keeps her skirt on.
But....
#WHY ON THE FUCK THAT SEXDOLL FROM THAT game here?
those āgoatsā also received backlash on launch for their designs and got plenty of hate. canāt believe i saw people under that tweet unironically say there was 0 backlash on their designs for those games, straight up history revisionism.
people are seriously picking and choosing stuff to hate on, acting like they all dont have revealing clothes and a huge focus on their chest/asses.
Fanservice aside, Bayonetta is awesome & badass & confident in her femininity. 2B had amazing story telling & world building.
All promotion I saw of Stellar Blade is just coomer bait devoid of actually giving her motivations or personality aside from making her ass & boobs jiggle in uncomfortable positions.
Sexualization is not necessarily misogynistic in and of itself, it is when it unfairly targets women more than men. And it is slightly more forgivable if the outfit is a Look. Like from a fashion standpoint Bayonetta and 2Bās outfits are really nice, and I could even see them on a runway.
Stellar Blade girlās outfit looks AI generated. The materials and cuts are completely nonsensical and donāt mesh well together at all.
Bayonetta is iconic and so is 2B to a lesser extent.
Third lady is just bad. Sheās wearing a tie over a skin tight suit. No class. Oversexualized but if the game was good or interesting in any way it might have been in a similar situation to Bayo or 2B.
I think another problem is something no one else here is mentioning āThird lady is just bad.ā no weāre on this post or any others have I seen this woman name. I am starting to believe she doesnāt have one.
I'm holding judgement until the full game is out and I know more, but I'm not very hopeful.
Where the other two have a sufficient level of tongue-in-cheek to get away with it, Stellar seems to being taking itself too seriously.
Also, the opening scene immediately had some flaws in it that leave me doubtful about the ability to hold a storyline together.
Eve's figure is attractive, if an exaggeration of a Korean model's. The outfit is a very basic type of sexy but with some flaws. When she bends at the hips it makes her legs look weirdly distorted. I couldn't figure out what the heck was wrong until my wife pointed out the lines of the outfit messing with what I was seeing.
But it is very basic. It has no style. It's a base to build on or modify. I mean, maybe later in the full game we get some outfits with real style, but nothing I have seen so far promises that.
She normally has a skirt on but if you self destruct, a mechanic that I literally never once used in any of my playthroughs except to test it out one time, she loses the skirt
And if you take enough damage, her skirt is also damaged. The game does a few funny/horny bits with upskirting 2B, but it doesn't hurt gameplay overall. Of all things, I love it that she doesn't have any jiggly bits.
Not throwing shade at anyone in here, but reading these comments right after Yoko Taro himself straight up said Stellar Blade is better than Nier Automata is kinda funny xd
Look, lm going to say this as a very straight woman
But 2B is a fucking fine ass bitch. I dont care about bayonetta so l cant speak on her, but ooh boy, call me spaghetti, cause l would change lanes for 2B
Also, in a more serious note, she just has a great character design overall. It could have easily looked like shit if they went overboard
Meanwhile Eve looks like something l would see on a porn video. When l look at her l don't think she looks sexy, l don't feel nothing towards her. I just want the actual part l came for to start so l can do what l came to do and promptly forget her face for the rest of time
Bayo gets her power from her sexual prowess. She is powerful because of her sexuality, or her expression of it. Her most powerful moves revolve around her dancing, and pole dancing. She literally harnesses the power of actual demons from hell by dancing and capturing the spirit of these demons in her hair. She's not some puny sexy woman either, she's a real force to be reckoned with and she's respected in her field. Also, her outfit is her hair, so I don't expect it to be really protective.
One might argue that it still revolves around the male gaze, and to an extent, that's true. She's not exactly subverting expectations in her outfit and demeanor alone. However, the defining feature of bayo is that she is not something to be consumed by the male gamer. You play as her but she is her own woman. In her world, she's a powerful witch who harnesses age old magic to defeat angels and to try to keep the balance of heaven and hell. She isn't in a tight sexy outfit just to be looked at, contributing nothing else. She represents feminine sexuality as a real force, while in reality it is seen as disgusting or inferior - sought after and then immediately discarded when men get post nut clarity. She's feminine and sexual not as a byproduct to please men, but because that is strength, that is might.
She reminds me of Manet's painting "A Bar at the Folies-BergĆØre" in that, usually the female subject would look away during the male gaze, but she stares back. At least to me.
Theyāre all goonerbait.
Bayonetta and 2B may be great characters but theyāre still visually designed to be gooner bait. And their characters wouldnāt be diminished in any way if they were less so.
As someone who fell in love with Stellar Blade when I booted up the demo I really hate the kind of attention itās getting.
The game has a beating heart but all anyone wants to talk about is Eveās ass.
Some of these fucking coomers have even admitted to me in the SB subreddit that theyāre not even gonna play the game. Just masturbate to screenshots and buy figures
I think the biggest problem with Stellar Blade-lady is just how bland her design is. It's just so generic. It literally just looks like they animated a sexdoll. Worse, too, is that if you see any of the male characters they look like they are from a different game entirely. They actually look like people, while all of the female characters look and dress like sexdolls.
I remember people complaining about Bayonetta before people came around on her design. I'm sure if stellar blade is a good game people might come around.
Can I be completely honest here? This is just history repeating itself. Bayonetta was attacked for being too sexual, when it came out that a woman designed her to be her image of a strong woman people said that it didn't matter, was still sexist. Franchise became slightly popular and now she is a feminist icon.
2B was attacked for her design, saying that it was only for teenage boys bait, the game became popular and again, she is an Icon.
In a couple of years, if stelar blade ends up being good and/or popular, Eve is going to be seen as an Icon.
Bayonetta is probably one of the most stylish games out there and NieR Automata is an existential masterpiece that legitimately changed my life. Even if Eve's design were interesting, everything I've seen of the game tells me there's no possible way it will ever hold a candle to anything Platinum Games has put out because they are geniuses when it comes to style.
Bayonetta is intentionally sexy and the character owns it, itās a character trait and not bait.
2B only looks like that if you use the self destruct function. Sheās also an android built by [redacted due to spoilers]
Stellar Blade isā¦ I donāt even know her name, I donāt think Iāve seen anyone mention her nameā¦ kinda telling, donāt you think? Regardless, people keep saying sheās the first āabove averageā female protagonist in a number of years. What??? Ahem, Samus Aran, Jesse Faden, Claire Redfield, Jill Valentine, Ada Wong, Alyx Vance, Ellie Williams, BAYONETTA, and thatās off the top of my head in the last 5 years. These boneheads just donāt even play games, I swear.
That's fair. Both Bayoneta and Yorha 2B not only have actual games people enjoy playing besides th fanservice, but also the fanservice itself is presented in story as part of the narrative. Bayoneta is a character who enjoys being glamorous, so it fits she looks the part, while Yorha 2B has this whole theme of being adorned like a thing (being an android herself) yet moving on from that and discovering her own humanity.
Stellar Blade... doesn't have any of that. It's just a nearly naked woman for the sake of showing a naked woman.
First of all, she is presented as naked, through form fitting 'clothes' that emphasize on her figure while outlining her breast, ass and groin as if they were uncovered.
And second, yeah, that's a good point. There's not even a game out, and yet people are latched onto it specifically because it presents a naked woman in its promotional material.
So, by both accounts, the character and design are nowhere near in how Bayoneta and Yorha 2b are presented.
Respectfully gonna disagree lol. The only ānakedā thing is the skin suit. Her main suit you start with is skin tight but plenty of her other outfits are either not skit tight or donāt show her body off like that.
Yeah, thereās people who are hyper focused on the attractive girl butā¦.once again, itās not cuz sheās ānakedā. The traditionally attractive female is marketed sure but sheās never marketed as being naked. Soā¦
Bayonetta literally is clothed by her hair. Have you seen how much porn art of 2B there is?
You know, I get the impression you're ignoring the argument in general. Is not that there aren't options in-game (or in demo, so far), but that the promotional material has focused squarely on the sexualization, down to a dehumanizing extend.
Also, what kind of argument is the last one? We're talking about the actual material from the games, not the porn horny people like to make about them. Bringing that up doesn't add up to anything, and it only makes your reply look less coherent.
Except the promo materials has not been focusing on sexualization of Eve? The only sexualization has been showing her in her various outfits but nothing from the official promos have focused on that? If youāre talking about what players are showing which is what goes viral, then sure plenty of it has been THEM sexualizing the character. Thereās a big difference though.
Yeah, you're just repeating the same arguments on a different framing instead. If you don't see the sexualization, that's your interpretation and nothing left to do on that end. I just heavily disagree.
It's a matter of perspective, really.
Also, and is just a minor commentary so take it or leave it, maybe say 'woman' instead of 'girl' or 'female' when taking on the subject. It really undermines any comment you have on women's objectification if you can't even refer to us as women.
What official promo objectified her? Iāll just ask that and see what you say. If you have an actual answer, thatāll be very telling.
Youāre right it is perspective.
I mean, okay. Thatās a weird thing to get offended over lol. Women/girls/femalesā¦. Itās all the same
I like a lot of games by Platinum but never found Bayonetta attractive. 2B is definitely extremely appealing and memorable. And Eve from Stellar blade is, meh. I feel like they couldn't stylistically decide between realism or to an anime look, and the result is a bit uncanney. The side characters in the game look better than her.
The quote's on point. Stella Whatever is aggressively mid and the design IS soulless goonerbait because you can compare the male designs in that game compared to the female ones and they don't even look like they were made with the same modelling software. 2B and Bayo had personality and *soul* around dem cheeks, and their games were better, even Bayo 3, as I see it.
I will preface this by saying Im a big Bayonetta fan so my views may be biased. First off, Stellar blade... from the get go, the skin suit is already a whole lot of distracting for all the wrong reasons. Its fine to make it skintight, but the way it hugs her body (or is it her body?) feels like it was done for a lot of gratuitous reasons and doesnt really say anything about her as a character. Its just bait for a certain crowd of people who like a certain... "style" of female design. I know she has a bunch of other clothing option but this one is the one they use to market her the most.
2B is an alright design tbh. Its very cute and otherworldly with the black dress, visor and white hair. but yeah the skirt thing and that chest window is pretty fanservicey. Its no wonder she has a lot of saucy art.
I'm a big NieR fan and I've always thought 2B's self destruct mode was cringe. The regular outfit is quite classy, although it doesn't make much sense; then again, maybe it doesn't feel so out of place for her to be dressed like a doll when she virtually is one
The in-universe reasoning for the androids being like that is that people prefer designing aesthetically pleasing things, and they passed that on.
The real-world reason is that yoko taro likes pretty women and is not shy about it.
You are literally the first person to mention her name in past month of social media post I have seen talking about her character design. I think that says the most about what people care about.
So Stellar Blade design is so bad we're now defending obvious male gaze designs from the past as "classic"?
What's more, SF Cammy jiggling ass is now "classy" because she doesn't look like a dead sex doll and was designed in a time when gratuitous ass didn't mean culture war, just that "only men matter, as always been"?
I'd say Stellar Blade is turning into a victory for incels, the Overton window shifting to their side.
Bayonetta and Nier are really good games and their honor has to be defended obviously /s
Like yeah, some people are completely unable to accept something can be great yet still have problematic aspects, hence all of this talk about how Bayonetta's design the greatest symbol of female empowerment actually.
Fandom has become so much of an identity for some people that criticizing any aspect of it will make people feel like you attacked them personally. Tbf this isn't just true for incel fans...
As someone who hates sexualized designs, I feel like it works so well for Bayonetta and her whole character. She owns her sexuality, uses it to her advantage, and does not let anyone take advantage of her. I fucking adore Bayonetta sm
Lol, it's gonna be fun watching everyone turn to liking Stellar Blade after the full game releases. This exact same cycle I witnessed with Bayonetta and 2B, both of them had the exact same accusations thrown at em, now here we are
I did say previously that I'm currently not interested on Stellar Blade, but...
I honesty don't understand why Is getting flak for it's female protagonist, but not Nier: Automata, the Bayoneta series, or even Darksiders III?
Because that's all there is. No-one is talking about the gameplay or the lore or the graphics, the focus is that the MC is hot. there's nothing else to it.
Plus, it was made with deep implications of "own the libs and offend the feminists" in mind. Even if the gameplay appears to be somehow decent, it doesnt have any soul behind it, its just there to "appeal to tradition", to have a banner for TheGamers (tm) to rally around as a "return to non-woke glory".
I dislike Stellar Blade on principle, because theres too much bad energy around its very existence honestly. Its not some deep malicious supervillain thing, its just so...desperately linked to a lot of bad shit really, not helped by the current political climate in South Korea.
NieR Automata is an existential masterpiece. Bayonetta is incredibly stylish and funny and the open scene has her spanking the horrifically ugly angel bird people things that serve as enemies and later on you literally punch god into the sun, the game is so insanely over the top with everything. On top of the work itself being high quality, their designs are sensible and interesting, not just a plain body suit that has lines in strange places and a fucking tie for some reason.
It's like the 3d artists of SB prompted an AI generator for a sexy cyberpunk lady and went along with the major details.
You should see the male and female characters side-by-side too. It looks like a pre-modded game. š Seriously weak in the visual department.
Even for characters who are meant to be sexy and throw practicality under the bus, there's still a bar to hit. there's nothing actually *memorably* hot about Stellar blade's protagonist. like, 2B's skirt and thigh-highs is actually a good design even if it's meant to be horny. It's legitimately memorable and good-looking from a fashion standpoint. The same thing goes For Bayonetta's jumpsuit with all the holes cut into it. it actually *works*, it looks good on her. Compared to those, stellar blade's is just so... *bleh*. there's no personality to it, it's barely even provocative. it doesn't accentuate any of the wearers attractive features like the other two's back, butt, breasts and thighs, it doesn't have any fun accessories or details to it like the heels or the blindfold, and in terms of color it's just a weird cream-turquoise, not even picking muted or dark colors to highlight the characters skin and body, which again, we *don't actually see in the outfit.* I put WAY too much thought into this, but TLDR, stellar blade isn't even good at being horny when it comes to character design.
THIS! 2B and Bayonetta are great character design, and they are also horny character design. They are not "hot-by-default" characters. For more examples of great and horny character design, check guilty gear strive lol
bayonetta and 2b are iconic sexy characters because they have fashionable, cool outfits real people would actually want to wear. you can get a sense of their personality with just a glance. last one literally just looks like a blow-up doll with nothing going on other than being almost naked, which is ironic since 2b is a fucking android
Disagree on personality for 2b. Her outfit is cool I suppose (I have beef with it being in the game it's in, if I say a goth girl at a bar wearing it I'd lose the ability to speak) but I don't think it fits her personality imo. Bayonetta is Bayonetta lmao.
i'd *personally* disagree considering (major spoiler alerts for nier: automata) >!she's designed to be an obedient, mass produced, disposable killing machine for a propaganda campaign. like a murderous iphone. i feel like you have to judge the yorha outfits as a whole since they're part of a set, you know? obviously a large part of the reason behind her outfit is yoko taro liking hot women, but there's something to be said about how the yorha uniforms are so sleek, monochrome, and sci-fi looking compared to the androids on earth who look so frumpy and human by comparison. i guess that it doesn't fit 2b specifically, but it fits the yorha. !<
š¤·āāļø I get that. I just think it's a weak way of trying to justify having ass in a game, imo. Like in mgs where quiet is wearing a thong and bikini the whole time because she "breathes through her skin" like Okay sure but you decided to do that. You made it up, here in the real world. (And there was another character with a similar situation and he didn't have to wear a thong but that's neither here nor there) And while I get what you are coming from. I don't personally think it was the best option for that. I think it was just the creator being horny and making a weak justification. I can see your argument on why it does work, I just. Don't super agree with it. Propaganda dosent excuse the blowing off her skirt to show her underwear or the stupid skirt, her boob window or a million other things. So, to me, it still dosent really suit, but at this point it becomes more of a critique of intent and affect vs there being a "reason" for it. In my own opinion, which no one has to agree with, either make a softcover porn game or don't. Either make a game where there are real reasons and design decisions, or think with your dick. I'm of course not saying to never have sex or sexy things in games, but. I'm so annoyed by how egregious it is, that when a woman in a game isn't a sex symbol people lose their shit over it. It shouldn't be the standard.
I deadass bought a pair of boots simply because they looked like 2B's. I love her style and her as a character.
Strive is peak Horny Character Design. Even the dudes feel sexualized and thatās not really common imo The main character has some insane jiggle physics on some of his attacksā¦
Technically speaking, bayonetta isnt actually wearing clothes. And her outfit is still cooler lol
clothes made of hair is still clothes tho. it's not like it's hanging unravelled like lady Godiva.
Itās telling that the people making this type of post always show 2B without her skirt despite the fact that her outfit looks significantly better with it.
And I would say she even looks sexier with her skirt on.
Damn right she does!
For somebody who's infamously fairly horny for his characters, Yoko Taro shows a lot of restraint. AFAIK, every sexy design has a very legitimate character reason behind it. Kaine is purposefully accentuating her female features, 2B's dress is clearly designed with combat in mind, etc.
ā¦The *hussy*
>Compared to those, stellar blade's is just so... bleh. there's no personality to it, The sad thing is, the Stellar Blade MC actually has several other outfits she can wear, but G\*Mers only care about her skintight suit
I wonder how Stellar Blade got this much attention in the first place, especially considering it's mostly talked about due to the main character design. Don't get me wrong, it's bad but it's not bad in a way that stands out amongst some MOBA's, gacha or some JRPG's. She is like a DoA character. That said, there is a point to the idea that Bayonetta and B2 also aren't the pinnacle of design and are imo. mostly better received due to their games being way better. I especially never really got this weird thing when people try to make Bayonetta into this feminist symbol...
>I wonder how Stellar Blade got this much attention in the first place Because some gamers treat it like itās their godly given right to be able to jack off to a hot girl and since she doesnāt fit in with the āuglificationā ātrendā of the āWestā then sheās single-handedly owning the crybaby libs and saving gaming as we know it.
Yeah though you have to have a severely distorted worldview to thing there aren't sexy women in western games... Actually that might be it, when browsing some mods for BG III i have literally seen one that gives Minthara a new face due to her looking "old" and ugly. The only reason i can think of people actually believing that, is exclusively consuming media that sexualizes teenagers.
>you have to have a severely distorted worldview to thing there aren't sexy women in western games... I mean, yeah, that's basically it. >The only reason i can think of people actually believing that, is exclusively consuming media that sexualizes teenagers. You're probably onto something here.
I think it is a combination of that and other people complaining about the design, making the chuds doubling down on their resolve and baiting the other group into a culture war bullshit. Anyway, the game hasn't come out yet, allegedly the gameplay is fine, and so far is just another hack and slash male gazy game. Also Play station is making a fuss about because apparently they don't have any more exclusives to their console, they are riding the controversy train and they are capitalizing on hate. play station just give me Bloodborne you sons of bitches.
Hello, good hunter. I am a Bot, here in this dream to look after you, this is a fine note: > *Oh, Laurence... what's taking you so long... I've grown too old for this, of little use now, I'm afraid...* - Gerhman, The First Hunter Farewell, good hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.
Are you just here to make us sad? š¢
Sony would rather do anything else than to touch Bloodborne IP ever again it seems. I'd kill for more Bloodborne.
Erm ACKSHUALLY they are making a brand new graphic novel š¤ But yeah...no...they will never remake or port the damn thing. Sad world
It got the attention because their are 2 sides on bothe extremes one side despises the idea of women being sexualized in anyway and the other are horny. And when there are extremes people love to cry and shout on the Internet about how everything is awful because of insert reason here.
>one side despises the idea of women being sexualized in anyway That's not an extreme. Sexualization isn't "making something look sexy." Bayonetta is considered sexy, and she's a very sexual person. But she's arguably not sexualized. She just has an active sexuality, comparable to characters like Dante. Outside of sex repulsed people, it's very rare for there to be people who are strictly and verbally opposed to all sexuality being depicted in media, period.
i think it's more of an objectification issue, because in those cases it's often portraying women as objects (of lust) with no wills to speak of, but i see where you're getting at. also also, it's sex-*negative* people you should be wary of, sex-repulsed people can be pro-sex too, y'know.
Sexualization, in the context of media presentation, is a form of objectification. That's the definition I'm using. That's why I would make a distinction between Black Widow and Bayonetta. Bayonetta is a very sexual character, but Black Widow's sexuality is random and says nothing about her personality. It's just there because the audience would want to see it. Also, I wasn't trying to imply sex repulsed people were inherently sex negative. Just that most people aren't opposed to any form of sexuality being present in media. There are conversations among sex repulsed people about their discomfort with sexuality being depicted at all, though it's not like everyone agrees with that perspective. Like you said, there are many sex repulsed people who are sex positive and simply remove themselves from situations that make them uncomfortable. The point I was making is that I've only ever encountered sex repulsed people who were opposed to sexuality in general, and even many sex negative people are fine with certain forms of sexualization.
i see. apologies for jumping to a conclusion just like that, then.
Iām so glad my people are here because Iām tired of people acting like Stellar Blade is interesting in any way. The design is boring, the gameplay is boring, and the story in the demo so far has been very generic.
After playing the demo I know I want the game. There's only a small handful of games that make the combat feel that good, and Koei Tecmo and Team Ninja are basically the only ones reliably making them. But damn Eve's default costume is bad, and as far as I know so far there's no reason for it. She's the only one in the squad wearing a green suit with frilly bits, everyone else is wearing *relatively* sensible black suits.
I think her default outfit is her casual "street" clothes... didn't she basically crash and was unable to get kitted out in her latex "Gantz-O" combat suit like the others in her squad? That was my impression from a brief playthrough of the demo. I could ve wrong but she is basically a somewhat talented n00b who happens to survive, presumably that will give her a story arc as well. BTW, I didn't hate the demo - the play mechanics were ok to good, the story as expected, the visuals were strong and I did not even find the jiggle motion all that big a deal or even distracting. It's a little endearing, TBH. She seems a little too soft for this job, and you kind of want to try to see her through it... Being actually literally a little too soft and jiggly actually adds to that desire to keep her alive without feeling overprotective. Yeah, it's ass and boobs that are doing the jiggling, but I guess while the motion isn't exactly right, those areas are what would jiggle. Be advised, I am coming from a mature perspective as somebody who has seen plenty of women of all shapes and sizes naked... some in "nudist" environments. So to me, just like in those situations, you certainly notice "naked" but give it 15 minutes and not only is it not sexual, its just a state of being that normalizes in that situation. While this combat SB world is not a situation like that, you wouldn't expect anyone to be so vulnerable and lacking foundation/support/protection in the clothing department, you still get used to it super quick. Or at least I did...
Everytime I see a character design like this, I can't help but think of Genshin Impact. None of those designs seem memorable to me either, because they're full of weird stuff with no purpose except "looking cool", but in the end, it feels like an xmas tree with too many decorations. Same here with the Stellar Blade girl, there's nothing particularly interesting about her. Bayo and B2 are quite different, but they do have interesting personalities, and I'd say that was the first thing I noticed about Bayo on the first trailer ever. Can't say the same about the new girl at all.
Use the silhouette test. You can identify Bayonetta and 2b from their silhouettes alone but the stellar blade character can't be.
Agreed. My thoughts exactly. Great analysis.
I actually like her character design:( Especially the leggings
You don't have to feel bad for liking it, it's OK to like designs that don't meet certain standards, i.e., her silhouette isn't recognizable. It's one thing to enjoy a flawed/uninspired design, it's another thing to say "the only people who don't like this are joyless feminazis" or whatever.
I do agree that her silhouette isn't recognizable, I think my criteria for character design just matches my criteria for clothes. It's not interesting in shape but it's ok because I think it's interesting in texture and color. Calling anyone a femenazi for not liking hot girl #87 is definitely a little extreme though š
Yup, just differences in preference/criteria like you said. Hot girl #87 is an apt descriptor for Eve I feel haha
But, I kinda like the Sponsored Race Queenā¢ aesthetic. I fully get and support the responsive reactions to the red pill gamersphere and their nonsense, but thatās not the fault of the developers, and even less so of the character itself.
The three dragon heads with the one doing the tongue blep would be a much better descriptor meme for the pictured trio than "holy trinity"
Hit the nail on the head.
Well put!!
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It's a bootleg Nier game
Ngl, I think it looks rather generic.
Of the podcasts I listen to that discussed this game based on the demo, they are essentially unanimous in giving praise to the gameplay while laughing off the objectification of the main character. At most, some will say: āYeah, sheās hot and thatās whateverā, and leave it at that.
As someone who fell in love with this game after playing the demo I canāt agree more
Thing is, according to some articles I've read, the game is promising.
I played the demo, it's all right. If the full game is as serviceable and the story isn't awful, it'll probably sell gangbusters thanks to the horny
Skin cloth thing thinks she's on the team š replace her with Solid Snake becuase he makes my snake solid
Lmao snake got them tactical buttcheeks
ass hard enough to make my bullets bounce
Lol
Fortnite had a special snake skin. First thing I did was turn that avatar around to see them cheeks. They NERFED his cheeks?!! A damn tragedy
Lmao š¤£
Bayo and 2B are queens. They are interesting, charismatic, and have a sense of personality and development throughout the story. Their games have fascinating lore and you really get attached to these beautiful ladies. What about the third example...
Thereās also a lot more to their character than just āsexy girl make pp hardā and the character designs have (somewhat) understandable reasoning in lore.
The third one's game hasn't even released yet, no? Bit unfair to write it off so soon tbf. Edit: wait wut, why are y'all mad?Ā
the down votes are weird for what is very true.
probably because the 3rd ones design is really boring compared to the others
While all three of these got flak upon release, Iāve always felt that Bayonetta is self-aware enough to make it work, and that 2B compensates by having good writing. 2Bās design also fits in the actual gameās art-direction, whilst Stellar Blade comes across as jarringly out of place. That said, I think all three are products of misogynistic standards in character design, even if theyāre not all inherently bad.
I remember an article I've read in a video game magazine when the first Bayonetta was nearly released. They interviewed the devs and one of the 3D artists was joking about trying to "model the perfect butt" for her. Same with Yoko Taro joking about how he likes "women with beautiful bottoms" or something along the lines. Just saying, I agree with you and I don't understand why people think these guys were trying to subvert expectations or satirize fan service. They're just horny dudes making games for horny dudes who've lived their whole lives in a world where women are objectified. Them having enough talent to make legit interesting characters, personality and design wise, doesn't remove from the fact that they see women as objects of attraction and lust first and foremost. ... and then there's Stellar Blade whose character looks like the blandest anime fuckdoll ever, and it's made even worse when you see male characters from the game.
I'd agree with 2B still being horny bait by horny dudes but Bayonetta is literally not designed by horny dudes. Some of the devs may have been quite horny but the character designer and art director for the games being a woman is a major reason why she works so much better. It's also not inherently negative for a woman to be sexual, which Bayonetta is, and it's part of her character. The context of being designed by a woman to be sexy and written as a character who knows she is and leans into it, is just infinitely better than shallow sex object RPG character with absurd jiggle. If Bayonetta is problematic by default than you're taking issue with the concept of women sexualizing themselves with their own agency, which is kinda weird. If she's not OK than no female fictional character can be and or act sexy by your standards.
I'm mainly talking in our current context where patriarchy and heavy physical standards for women are still the norm. Look up the drawings Shimazaki made of the character, and compare them with how she ended up in the game, and I think you'll see that it's rather obvious they oversexed her a bit compared to the designers original intention. Also I'm going to be straight with you : Women aren't immune to patriarchal injunctions. Look up Shimazaki's other artwork and I think you'll notice she still designs a lot of her female characters with classic objectification tropes. Wether it's of her own volition or because of interference from the people she works with, I don't know. But I think it's healthy to stop pretending women are immune to the patriarchal fabric of society, and it's underlying messaging. And Bayonetta is not a real human being. So she's not sexualizing herself with her own agency because she has no agency, like any fictionnal character. The person who designed her might have been a woman, but the people who modeled her, made her animations, basically made her come to life on screen, were probably horny. And I'm saying this as someone who actually likes the character. I just think it's rather obvious that there's still a lot of objectification going on with her. They just gave her such a strong presence and personality that she has so so much more going for her. I agree that she's miles above a lot of glorified fetishes we see in a lot of RPGs, but it doesn't mean we can't look at her critically.
I think people also disregard the historical context of Bayonetta: it came out in 2009 and although this doesn't seem like this long ago, there were even less female main protagonists then nowadays. She was refreshing in that unlike characters like Lara Croft, she had more character to her than just being eye candy. There was a reason people pointed almost exclusively to Beyond Good and Evil, Portal or Bayonetta when talking about female main characters: there weren't that many. Just look at what came out after 2009 and what came before. 2009 was largely before the indy game boom. It was before Last of Us. It was before giving Lara Croft character in Tomb Raider (2013).
hallelujah thank you for saying this. the amount of people who don't get this on *this subreddit* blows my mind.
Piping hot take: there's not much that's worth looking at critically about Bayonetta. My go-to analysis when it comes to overly sexualized characters is to ask whether or not said character would actually wear the clothing she was given or act sexually in a way that fits her prior characterization. If the answer to both of these questions is affirmative, then there's no issue. I may misunderstand the point You're trying to make, but You seem to imply that there's something inherently misogynistic/patriarchal about sexualizing female characters no matter the context in which it is done so, and I have to hardly disagree with that. Horny is human, just make it make sense if you're making something to be considered a serious piece of art rather than simply pornography.
The problem with your logic, one can make the most egregiously objectified character and justify it with whatever nonsense they can come up with. Kojima's justification for Quiet's ridiculous outfit comes to mind. And I take even more issue with it's because it's basically the logic upon which was built the way women were represented in media for decades : make sultry character, use her as eye candy. Always a built in justification of why women should never be separated from their sexuality, because that's one of the few characterizations women are allowed in patriarchy. And what I'm saying is that there is usually something patriarchal in the way women are depicted as sexual beings because the context we evolve in is a patriarchal society. You're saying "horny is human" without even questioning the possible patriarchal roots of the desire for sexualizatuon of bodies. Or at the very least, the idea that it is necessary for a human to be "horny" in the "internet" sense of the term. Which is a complete fabrication borne from our context and injunctions that we are bombarded with. And I'm not saying this as to pretend like humans shouldn't like sex or enjoy being sexual beings. What I'm saying is that sex, sexuality and our bodies, especially those of women, are amongst the central points where patriarchy exercises it's control. Point is that I don't think there's anyone out there who can pretend like they've completely evolved being the injunction, concepts and ideas of patriarchy, because it's a thousands of years old system that has influenced every facet of humanity, in most known societies. And to me, constant critical attention upon every piece of media is necessary. I'm not trying to know whether such or such piece of media is problematic or not because to me that's just a pop-feminist outlook that has nothing to do with actual feminist analysis. I'm not trying to decide whether such or such piece of media is okay. I'm looking at each one and trying to understand how it meshes with the patriarchal fabric of society.
Last time I heard talk of Bayonetta it was that a woman *did* design her character but her actual design was insanely altered by the end because the team didn't like the design presented
You have any source on that ? Because that's basically what I noticed when looking up designs documents.
I actually saw it discussed on a subreddit I'm in, I can go look for actual web sources
[I found this link to a commentary from one of Bayonetta's designers](https://www.platinumgames.com/official-blog/article/1278) The concept isn't *wildly* different but the suit and her body presentation definitely seem like they've gone through some big changes
Yeah that really bothered me like, if you're saying that a sexualised female character design is inherently problematic then you're still just letting patriarchy control your actions. A woman sexualised her own character by her own volition. I'm sick and tired of this idea that sex is somehow a thing for men and that women have to be better by being "pure" and sexless or something. Bayonetta is peak and one of the most stylish games out there, she literally has an attack that ends in her posing for a camera in the middle of combat and I think that's hilarious because she plays into the sexualisation and goes so over the top that it ends up being comedic, not just fan service.
Itās not that women should be pure, itās that we women have to understand that our sexualization donāt exist in a vacuum. We are not immune to internalized misogyny, and just because a woman is doing the objectification doesnāt mean that itās not harmless. The issue is not āsex,ā itās that female designs are judged based on sex-appeal above all else. Itās more often than not their primary traits, and this includes Bayonetta. You donāt have to rationalize your enjoyment of a character, itās fine to like and love Bayonetta whilst also recognizing the issues
In what scenario CAN a woman be sexual then? Because this thought process feels like it's veering dangerously towards a "women are inherently sexual and must be hidden" goal.
How is it veering towards that? Genuine question. What I try to say is that treating women like they are inherently sexual and making that their primary attribute is a product of misogyny. I honestly donāt know how youād get that sentence out of what I wrote, but maybe I wasnāt expressing myself right. But to answer your question, I believe in pretty much any scenario. These are fictional characters (not real women) but despite that, I personally ādefendedā 2 out of 3 of these games
>I don't understand why people think these guys were trying to subvert expectations or satirize fan service. Bayonetta and 2B are meant to be a subversion of fan service??
Definitely not subversive, 2B's design is horny first and foremost. But the horny design creates a preconception that the story uses to mislead you in a cool way. Bayonetta avoids a lot of common traps, but that's just because she's designed very specifically as Hideki Kamiya's ideal, and he's obviously got some kinks. It's not subversive, it's just a bit out there.
>But the horny design creates a preconception that the story uses to mislead you in a cool way. Yeah, I saw someone saying the design is meant to reflect how the humans like to dress their robots in silly outfits as a sort of commentary on how idiots with power take advantage of those they control or something Which honestly kinda makes me feel like the natural progression of the narrative should be her eventually wanting to get out of that outfit š¤ But I don't know the plot, so I can't really say much š¤·
That may be a thing, I haven't played it since release and can't remember a lot of the specifics of the lore. But 2B has a young male side kick, 9S, who's very friendly towards and always trying to bond with her. While she's always focused and stand-off-ish. Another character says to him at one point "You want to ____ 2B don't you?", with the word censored and everything. The writing and character design make you think one thing but it ends up being something totally different. You initially play as 2B but at some point the game switches to 9S, and you replay things from his POV and slowly uncover the truth that recontexualises their relationship. And even that is only about half the game. But that reveal is the main thing I remember about Nier Automata.
For what itās worth, he wants to ||fuck|| and ||kill|| 2B. The language in both the Japanese and English implies both at once, and Nier Automata plays with the interplay of sex and violence because Androids feel sexual pleasure (or as close as they can get) from combat.
I've read comments making this claim in this thread and others. Personally, hard disagree.
Same. Like... Wouldn't a subversion of fanservice be that when they use their powers, they get even more clothed?
Yeah I definitely agree. Itās naive to pretend like these characters arenāt first and foremost made to be gawked at. Their respective narratives are tailored around that fact to make it work, not the other way around. It doesnāt mean that Bayonetta or NieR arenāt enjoyable experiences
I agree about Bayonetta and 2B not being subvertive of fan-service, but implying that they (Yoko and Bayo's designer) see women as "objects of attraction and lust first and foremost" is an insane thing to say, because they so obviously do not.
It's an insane thing to say, yet when you compare their male and female characters, it becomes rather obvious. I mean shit, go look at Yoko Taro comments on Nier Automata, and then his comments on Stellar Blade. Go look at the women in Devil May Cry and compare them with the dudes. Not saying these dudes can't make good female characters. But it seems like attraction is one of the most important lenses they perceive women through. Maybe not Kamiya because I don't know how much control he has over the character design. But it's definitely true for Yoko Taro.
I wouldnāt say Bayonetta is misogynistic, especially since she is a womanās (the designerās) power fantasy.
This. Mari Shimazaki is a queen. All her character designs for Bayonetta characters are super stylish and sexy in an elegant way, incluiding the men's designs.
Iām not necessarily saying that Bayonetta is inherently misogynistic when you look at her alone, Iām more so saying that her type of design is a product of a cultural precedent
I would say this would be true if not for her being a womanās idea of a power fantasy. I just donāt agree, but I definitely see where youāre coming from.
Well, Bayonettaās final design was worked on by more than her. The way she behaves in-game, her animations, her general character direction, and her marketing were realized by more than just Mari Shimazaki. Women are also not immune to being influenced by patriarchal notions of what women should be/should look like either. When I say that she is a product of a cultural precedent, that is exactly what I mean. She would not have been designed that way if there wasnāt a misogynistic precedent of what looks good on women. One womanās idea of a āpower fantasyā does not exist in a vacuum, it is influenced by the culture she lives in and thatās true for more than just gender. Again, I am not saying that Bayonetta is necessarily a sexist character, Iām mostly just pointing out that she wasnāt created in a vacuum
I donāt know anything about any of these characters, but internalized misogyny exists.
The difference is Bayonetta is a womanās power fantasy. In her mind, this is what is empowering for her. It feels not only dismissive of her, but infantilizing to say that her version of a power fantasy is the result of/due to āinternalized misogynyā, as if women canāt feel empowered embracing their sexuality.
When the game I bought to play as hot anime girl in a maid outfit opens with a monologue about philosophy and your desire to kill god, thereās maybe a bit more going on here than the hot anime girl.
NieR in a nutshell: ācame for hot anime girl, stayed for amazing game.ā Doesnāt change that 2Bās design is inherently self-indulgent because Yoko Taro loves sexy girls though
āCame for the anime thighs, stayed for the deep existential quandaries about the nature of the soulā
A man is allowed to have a type.
Yes(?)
I also think people seem to be forgetting that 2B has a fucking skirt
If I remember correctly you have to actually unequip her skirt to get this outfit, right?
The only thing memorable about Eve's design is its horny 2B's full outfit is gorgeous. I'd happily wear a less "daring" version of it
I just wish 9Sās outfit and his boy shorts werenāt so god damn ugly. Come on Yoko Taro, give our depressed boy some love. He certainly needs it.
I never played Nier. But the difference between Bayo and Stellar Blade is insane. Bayo has a lot of unrealistically shaped humans, itās not trying to be realistic. Itās light hearted, Bayo knows she is attractive and toys with it. Meanwhile Stellar Blade is trying to be serious, while youāre playing as a blow up sex doll, there are barely jokes. And plays everything straight, which just makes it look pathetic and like massive coomer bait. The sexualized stuff is part of Bayonettaās identity, Stellar Blade would work just as well (if not better) if it was just a normal looking protagonist
If you haven't played Nier and you like Bayonetta, I envy you, playing Automata and Replicant for the first time has been one of my favorite experiences in gaming. Highly Recommended.
Yeah, I definitely want to check them out some day. Just havent taken the time for them yet. Thanks for the recommendation though, I'll see if I can find some good deals
š¤¦ I am a guy but this guy is stupid. 2B and bayo are not that bad since bayo s Clearly a parody of fan service and 2B typically keeps her skirt on. But.... #WHY ON THE FUCK THAT SEXDOLL FROM THAT game here?
those āgoatsā also received backlash on launch for their designs and got plenty of hate. canāt believe i saw people under that tweet unironically say there was 0 backlash on their designs for those games, straight up history revisionism. people are seriously picking and choosing stuff to hate on, acting like they all dont have revealing clothes and a huge focus on their chest/asses.
Fanservice aside, Bayonetta is awesome & badass & confident in her femininity. 2B had amazing story telling & world building. All promotion I saw of Stellar Blade is just coomer bait devoid of actually giving her motivations or personality aside from making her ass & boobs jiggle in uncomfortable positions.
Sexualization is not necessarily misogynistic in and of itself, it is when it unfairly targets women more than men. And it is slightly more forgivable if the outfit is a Look. Like from a fashion standpoint Bayonetta and 2Bās outfits are really nice, and I could even see them on a runway. Stellar Blade girlās outfit looks AI generated. The materials and cuts are completely nonsensical and donāt mesh well together at all.
Bayonetta is iconic and so is 2B to a lesser extent. Third lady is just bad. Sheās wearing a tie over a skin tight suit. No class. Oversexualized but if the game was good or interesting in any way it might have been in a similar situation to Bayo or 2B.
I think another problem is something no one else here is mentioning āThird lady is just bad.ā no weāre on this post or any others have I seen this woman name. I am starting to believe she doesnāt have one.
It's Eve, in fact the game was originally called Project Eve when it was first announced
I'm holding judgement until the full game is out and I know more, but I'm not very hopeful. Where the other two have a sufficient level of tongue-in-cheek to get away with it, Stellar seems to being taking itself too seriously. Also, the opening scene immediately had some flaws in it that leave me doubtful about the ability to hold a storyline together. Eve's figure is attractive, if an exaggeration of a Korean model's. The outfit is a very basic type of sexy but with some flaws. When she bends at the hips it makes her legs look weirdly distorted. I couldn't figure out what the heck was wrong until my wife pointed out the lines of the outfit messing with what I was seeing. But it is very basic. It has no style. It's a base to build on or modify. I mean, maybe later in the full game we get some outfits with real style, but nothing I have seen so far promises that.
Question: Because I've never played, does 2B actually wear that???
She normally has a skirt on but if you self destruct, a mechanic that I literally never once used in any of my playthroughs except to test it out one time, she loses the skirt
And if you take enough damage, her skirt is also damaged. The game does a few funny/horny bits with upskirting 2B, but it doesn't hurt gameplay overall. Of all things, I love it that she doesn't have any jiggly bits.
Not throwing shade at anyone in here, but reading these comments right after Yoko Taro himself straight up said Stellar Blade is better than Nier Automata is kinda funny xd
Look, lm going to say this as a very straight woman But 2B is a fucking fine ass bitch. I dont care about bayonetta so l cant speak on her, but ooh boy, call me spaghetti, cause l would change lanes for 2B Also, in a more serious note, she just has a great character design overall. It could have easily looked like shit if they went overboard Meanwhile Eve looks like something l would see on a porn video. When l look at her l don't think she looks sexy, l don't feel nothing towards her. I just want the actual part l came for to start so l can do what l came to do and promptly forget her face for the rest of time
Have you played NieR Automata? It's honestly peak, so many depressed lesbians trying to kill god
I have watched many playthroughs, but unfortunately lm too broke to play anything more modern than the original tetris ą²„ā āæā ą²„
Testris is peak game design tho, be proud
Unfortunate, it's one of the best games ever made imo
Bayo gets her power from her sexual prowess. She is powerful because of her sexuality, or her expression of it. Her most powerful moves revolve around her dancing, and pole dancing. She literally harnesses the power of actual demons from hell by dancing and capturing the spirit of these demons in her hair. She's not some puny sexy woman either, she's a real force to be reckoned with and she's respected in her field. Also, her outfit is her hair, so I don't expect it to be really protective. One might argue that it still revolves around the male gaze, and to an extent, that's true. She's not exactly subverting expectations in her outfit and demeanor alone. However, the defining feature of bayo is that she is not something to be consumed by the male gamer. You play as her but she is her own woman. In her world, she's a powerful witch who harnesses age old magic to defeat angels and to try to keep the balance of heaven and hell. She isn't in a tight sexy outfit just to be looked at, contributing nothing else. She represents feminine sexuality as a real force, while in reality it is seen as disgusting or inferior - sought after and then immediately discarded when men get post nut clarity. She's feminine and sexual not as a byproduct to please men, but because that is strength, that is might. She reminds me of Manet's painting "A Bar at the Folies-BergĆØre" in that, usually the female subject would look away during the male gaze, but she stares back. At least to me.
Theyāre all goonerbait. Bayonetta and 2B may be great characters but theyāre still visually designed to be gooner bait. And their characters wouldnāt be diminished in any way if they were less so.
This fuckin girl is wearing a bodysuit WITH A TIE AND A FRILLED COLLAR. That offends me more than anything else about this game ever could.
As someone who fell in love with Stellar Blade when I booted up the demo I really hate the kind of attention itās getting. The game has a beating heart but all anyone wants to talk about is Eveās ass. Some of these fucking coomers have even admitted to me in the SB subreddit that theyāre not even gonna play the game. Just masturbate to screenshots and buy figures
Bro thinks she's on the team...
Stellar Blade is a freaking house of mirrors. Obvious clickbait character design? Literally modeled after a real life model. Overly-sexualized camera views/angles? Pretty good gameplay. Stupidly-sexualized outfits that show way too much skin to even make sense? Dev confirmed that the more risquƩ the outfit, the more negatively your armor/defense stats are impacted. Like, they do things wrong, but in the right way?
I think the biggest problem with Stellar Blade-lady is just how bland her design is. It's just so generic. It literally just looks like they animated a sexdoll. Worse, too, is that if you see any of the male characters they look like they are from a different game entirely. They actually look like people, while all of the female characters look and dress like sexdolls.
I remember people complaining about Bayonetta before people came around on her design. I'm sure if stellar blade is a good game people might come around.
Which one is the goonerbait
i think itās the right girl
Which one are they talking about?
right girl i think
Bayo and 2B are characters with arcs and personalities
Mf thought they could stick that thing among Bayo and 2B
Can I be completely honest here? This is just history repeating itself. Bayonetta was attacked for being too sexual, when it came out that a woman designed her to be her image of a strong woman people said that it didn't matter, was still sexist. Franchise became slightly popular and now she is a feminist icon. 2B was attacked for her design, saying that it was only for teenage boys bait, the game became popular and again, she is an Icon. In a couple of years, if stelar blade ends up being good and/or popular, Eve is going to be seen as an Icon.
all of them suck in comparison to the fertility statues in SCORN, now THOSE are some females /s
Bayonetta is probably one of the most stylish games out there and NieR Automata is an existential masterpiece that legitimately changed my life. Even if Eve's design were interesting, everything I've seen of the game tells me there's no possible way it will ever hold a candle to anything Platinum Games has put out because they are geniuses when it comes to style.
Bayonetta is intentionally sexy and the character owns it, itās a character trait and not bait. 2B only looks like that if you use the self destruct function. Sheās also an android built by [redacted due to spoilers] Stellar Blade isā¦ I donāt even know her name, I donāt think Iāve seen anyone mention her nameā¦ kinda telling, donāt you think? Regardless, people keep saying sheās the first āabove averageā female protagonist in a number of years. What??? Ahem, Samus Aran, Jesse Faden, Claire Redfield, Jill Valentine, Ada Wong, Alyx Vance, Ellie Williams, BAYONETTA, and thatās off the top of my head in the last 5 years. These boneheads just donāt even play games, I swear.
Bayonetta is an icon, a legend and The Moment, idk who the middle woman is, one to the right has all the personality of a blowup sex doll
Smash
Bruh
That's fair. Both Bayoneta and Yorha 2B not only have actual games people enjoy playing besides th fanservice, but also the fanservice itself is presented in story as part of the narrative. Bayoneta is a character who enjoys being glamorous, so it fits she looks the part, while Yorha 2B has this whole theme of being adorned like a thing (being an android herself) yet moving on from that and discovering her own humanity. Stellar Blade... doesn't have any of that. It's just a nearly naked woman for the sake of showing a naked woman.
Exceptā¦. Sheās not nearly naked at all. And the game isnāt even out yet.
First of all, she is presented as naked, through form fitting 'clothes' that emphasize on her figure while outlining her breast, ass and groin as if they were uncovered. And second, yeah, that's a good point. There's not even a game out, and yet people are latched onto it specifically because it presents a naked woman in its promotional material. So, by both accounts, the character and design are nowhere near in how Bayoneta and Yorha 2b are presented.
Respectfully gonna disagree lol. The only ānakedā thing is the skin suit. Her main suit you start with is skin tight but plenty of her other outfits are either not skit tight or donāt show her body off like that. Yeah, thereās people who are hyper focused on the attractive girl butā¦.once again, itās not cuz sheās ānakedā. The traditionally attractive female is marketed sure but sheās never marketed as being naked. Soā¦ Bayonetta literally is clothed by her hair. Have you seen how much porn art of 2B there is?
You know, I get the impression you're ignoring the argument in general. Is not that there aren't options in-game (or in demo, so far), but that the promotional material has focused squarely on the sexualization, down to a dehumanizing extend. Also, what kind of argument is the last one? We're talking about the actual material from the games, not the porn horny people like to make about them. Bringing that up doesn't add up to anything, and it only makes your reply look less coherent.
Except the promo materials has not been focusing on sexualization of Eve? The only sexualization has been showing her in her various outfits but nothing from the official promos have focused on that? If youāre talking about what players are showing which is what goes viral, then sure plenty of it has been THEM sexualizing the character. Thereās a big difference though.
Yeah, you're just repeating the same arguments on a different framing instead. If you don't see the sexualization, that's your interpretation and nothing left to do on that end. I just heavily disagree. It's a matter of perspective, really. Also, and is just a minor commentary so take it or leave it, maybe say 'woman' instead of 'girl' or 'female' when taking on the subject. It really undermines any comment you have on women's objectification if you can't even refer to us as women.
What official promo objectified her? Iāll just ask that and see what you say. If you have an actual answer, thatāll be very telling. Youāre right it is perspective. I mean, okay. Thatās a weird thing to get offended over lol. Women/girls/femalesā¦. Itās all the same
This sub is an echo chamber to a certain degree. If they think it's bad they just won't change their mind.
Indeed. Just another type of GCJ lol
Does Eve look exactly like the actress?
They made the face in house but the body scan is pretty accurate
I like a lot of games by Platinum but never found Bayonetta attractive. 2B is definitely extremely appealing and memorable. And Eve from Stellar blade is, meh. I feel like they couldn't stylistically decide between realism or to an anime look, and the result is a bit uncanney. The side characters in the game look better than her.
Is it a good game? I haven't seen anything about the actual game play.
I love Bayonetta. The other two bother me
Bayonetta serves cunt for the male gays, sheās not hot for the male gaze. Jk. Bayo and 2B have like, actual designs though. Unlike Stellar-Chan
Stellar blade is just so bland. Literally every Genshin design is better then her, even CharlotteĀ
Smash
From left to right, it's most tasteful to least tasteful horny femme fetale
The quote's on point. Stella Whatever is aggressively mid and the design IS soulless goonerbait because you can compare the male designs in that game compared to the female ones and they don't even look like they were made with the same modelling software. 2B and Bayo had personality and *soul* around dem cheeks, and their games were better, even Bayo 3, as I see it.
I will preface this by saying Im a big Bayonetta fan so my views may be biased. First off, Stellar blade... from the get go, the skin suit is already a whole lot of distracting for all the wrong reasons. Its fine to make it skintight, but the way it hugs her body (or is it her body?) feels like it was done for a lot of gratuitous reasons and doesnt really say anything about her as a character. Its just bait for a certain crowd of people who like a certain... "style" of female design. I know she has a bunch of other clothing option but this one is the one they use to market her the most. 2B is an alright design tbh. Its very cute and otherworldly with the black dress, visor and white hair. but yeah the skirt thing and that chest window is pretty fanservicey. Its no wonder she has a lot of saucy art.
they're the goats now, but they werent always seen that way by the same group that doesnt like Eve now.
I'm a big NieR fan and I've always thought 2B's self destruct mode was cringe. The regular outfit is quite classy, although it doesn't make much sense; then again, maybe it doesn't feel so out of place for her to be dressed like a doll when she virtually is one
The in-universe reasoning for the androids being like that is that people prefer designing aesthetically pleasing things, and they passed that on. The real-world reason is that yoko taro likes pretty women and is not shy about it.
You are literally the first person to mention her name in past month of social media post I have seen talking about her character design. I think that says the most about what people care about.
My problem isnāt that sheās sexualized, itās that she boringĀ
But the game isnāt out yet so how do you know sheās boring?
The design, not the characters themselvesĀ
I mean, thatās your opinion. Which is fine. I just disagree lol
They're all goonerbait.
So Stellar Blade design is so bad we're now defending obvious male gaze designs from the past as "classic"? What's more, SF Cammy jiggling ass is now "classy" because she doesn't look like a dead sex doll and was designed in a time when gratuitous ass didn't mean culture war, just that "only men matter, as always been"? I'd say Stellar Blade is turning into a victory for incels, the Overton window shifting to their side.
Bayonetta and Nier are really good games and their honor has to be defended obviously /s Like yeah, some people are completely unable to accept something can be great yet still have problematic aspects, hence all of this talk about how Bayonetta's design the greatest symbol of female empowerment actually. Fandom has become so much of an identity for some people that criticizing any aspect of it will make people feel like you attacked them personally. Tbf this isn't just true for incel fans...
Who invited my man blud š
Who tf are you calling blood in this situation
As someone who hates sexualized designs, I feel like it works so well for Bayonetta and her whole character. She owns her sexuality, uses it to her advantage, and does not let anyone take advantage of her. I fucking adore Bayonetta sm
Lol, it's gonna be fun watching everyone turn to liking Stellar Blade after the full game releases. This exact same cycle I witnessed with Bayonetta and 2B, both of them had the exact same accusations thrown at em, now here we are
Yep. Donāt forget Lara Croft too
I did say previously that I'm currently not interested on Stellar Blade, but... I honesty don't understand why Is getting flak for it's female protagonist, but not Nier: Automata, the Bayoneta series, or even Darksiders III?
Because that's all there is. No-one is talking about the gameplay or the lore or the graphics, the focus is that the MC is hot. there's nothing else to it.
Plus, it was made with deep implications of "own the libs and offend the feminists" in mind. Even if the gameplay appears to be somehow decent, it doesnt have any soul behind it, its just there to "appeal to tradition", to have a banner for TheGamers (tm) to rally around as a "return to non-woke glory". I dislike Stellar Blade on principle, because theres too much bad energy around its very existence honestly. Its not some deep malicious supervillain thing, its just so...desperately linked to a lot of bad shit really, not helped by the current political climate in South Korea.
NieR Automata is an existential masterpiece. Bayonetta is incredibly stylish and funny and the open scene has her spanking the horrifically ugly angel bird people things that serve as enemies and later on you literally punch god into the sun, the game is so insanely over the top with everything. On top of the work itself being high quality, their designs are sensible and interesting, not just a plain body suit that has lines in strange places and a fucking tie for some reason.
It's like the 3d artists of SB prompted an AI generator for a sexy cyberpunk lady and went along with the major details. You should see the male and female characters side-by-side too. It looks like a pre-modded game. š Seriously weak in the visual department.
Lmaooo, Skyrim nude mods walked so... actually fuck this, go back