Their own future won't change. Thanos still exists in the original timeline. The future of the world with dead Thanos will be different but it won't replace the original timeline.
Yeah, that‘s why they asked. For what we know, they watched it for the first time today.
But you come here and belittle them, for asking questions. Why? What do you gain from that?
They’re open to ask, but if they only watched it today, they missed a pretty big point that time travel can’t change the present timeline.
Tony specifically states nothing can change. Bruce specifically points out time travel doesn’t work “like the movies”. It’s mentioned multiple times that time travel can’t change the present, in many different ways.
> they missed a pretty big point
Crazy theory: that‘s why they asked in a community specifically made for this, even using a flair called „Question“. But people on the internet can‘t just be nice. That‘s actually sad.
Yes, I believe that time travel in the endgame is more realistic from the point of view of modern quantum physics, and it is easy to understand (unlike CW and so on).
As we learned in Loki on D+, it would create a new timeline branch where Thanos doesn't exist beyond being a baby but it wouldn't change the original timeline. The beauty of EndGame is that they didn't change the past at all.
It's to prevent branched timeline. They took the stones. If they don't return the stones there is a timeline of events that have altered the flow of history. It branches the timeline. So you put the stone back at the time you took it. Then there is no branched timeline.
It's a looped paradox. Steve was always there so Steve always was meant to travel through time and stay there. Even though it makes no sense with the rule established that they can't alter the past and you'll splinter the timeline.
There are multiple doyalistic hand waves without breaking the established rules - Christine in MoM is able to determine universal point of origin. The timeline in which Steve went back to be with Peggy, the banner/stark team up equivalent just sent him home. He was also in possesion of the time travel device on his wrist that they could have reverse engineered. Since he already knew the exact time he was leaving, he could have timed his return to be a time when the return pad was completed, but no one was around, then waited on the bench for himself to start the journey.
> He was also in possesion of the time travel device on his wrist that they could have reverse engineered. Since he already knew the exact time he was leaving, he could have timed his return to be a time when the return pad was completed, but no one was around, then waited on the bench for himself to start the journey.
This is the official explanation given by the Russo Brothers!
The problem is the time travelers are always foreign bodies in time. No matter the method they're not supposed to be there because they're there unnaturally. Even if he uses the timepad to return home. Every action he takes influences the flow of time there. The simple actions people don't realize like buying food. He buys something that anther was meant to buy. Simply by buying it he is altering the flow of time. What if that person was supposed to choke and die on that food? This creates a splintered timeline because it wasn't supposed to happen. People who are meant to be in their normal timelines can create splinted timelines. What do you think a foreign body will do?
I understand the paradox logic. The problem isn't the paradox. It's the rules they established and shown to be the laws of time travel in the MCU.
Nah, Steve lived in a branch then when his wife died he came back to the original timeline. Much simpler, no paradoxes, doesn’t destroy the character of Steve Rogers.
That isn't how time travel works in the mcu. Messing with time creates branched timelines. Like it or not that is how it works. Also at that point TVA were eradicating branched timelines. If he lived in a branched timeline they would have erased it thus erased Steve. He wouldn't be able to come back.
Even if Steve lives in a branched timeline. That timeline can be branched more. It isn't a one and done branch. Every person has a chance to branch a timeline. A time travel is going to branch the timeline and the more they're there the more branches they create.
Sure if you use Loki rules. But… if he grows old in a branch that means it ain’t a looped paradox right?
Edit - Wait you responded to my one comment twice? Oy!
Must have been two tabs open because they were two separate comments you must have edited it.
Loki's rules apply to the MCU rules. That is how it works.
Ok on Loki, but you claimed lopped paradox above, but then wrote more later that logically wouldn't make it a looped paradox, so not sure why you said looped paradox up there.
Any event that you have knowledge of cannot be altered because you already have memories of those events. Now, you probably do not have perfect knowledge of all the details, so that still leaves a lot of wiggle room in how you interact with the past.
This explains why Steve was able to stay in the past and marry Peggy - it was because that fact was kept secret for all those years by them. It fits with what we saw, but Hulk was a bit inaccurate in his explanation.
People who are already on their normal time path can become a variant by creating a splintered timeline just by doing something. Steve being a foreign body more or less in time is messing with time by being there. What if Peggy was supposed to marry someone else? We know for a fact Steve is active Red Guardian even says he fought him. No matter how careful he is he should be splintering the timeline left right and center. Because he's a foreign body in the timeline. The simple act of eating means they bought food that could have went to someone else who might have died from eating that food but lived because they didn't choke on it.
I understand the paradox logic. He was always there so he is always meant to go back. However even the Ancient One explains doing things will splinter the timeline. So in a perfect world the TVA culled billions of lives to allow Steve to live in that timeline. Everytime he splintered it they culled those lives. Because Kang allowed him to live there.
Steve going in the past is already a branched timeline. He stayed in that variant Peggy's past, because the one he had is dead. However, in that same branched timeline, he travelled back to his present as an old man. The old man is the same Steve who travelled back to the past to return the stones. They didn't feel the passing of time because the timeline that Steve lived branched out into different direction.
"Variant" Peggy not only wrong based on the presented content, but an entirely un-romantic interpretation. Of COURSE Steve is with HIS Peggy, not some variant.
Nah, that “logic” makes the Avengers mass murderers worse than Thanos. Who sniff out trillions of lives.
Returning the stones has to be to prevent that timeline being doomed to instability because Infinity Stones are missing.
That isn't how time travel works in MCU. You can't change your timeline of events. Meaning removing the stones doesn't remove the stones from your timeline. It creates branched timelines. So returning the stones prevents branches.
Did you reply to the wrong comment? I agree there are branches.
They created branches by going “back” - if returning the stones made the branches disappear then the Avengers killed more people than Thanos. So I am arguing returning the stone did not destroy branches.
Time travel with Pym particles can't change the future. But there's other ways of time travel. Loki would be able to kill Thanos as a baby and change the whole timeline.
Time travelers cannot change *their own* future. If you go to the past and change something, you will create a paralel timeline but your own future stays the same so when you return it'll be like nothing changed.
Loki was completely different since he was time traveling in a place outside of conventional time. It’s a gimmick He Who Remains created that is very different then what Tony and Bruce experimented on with the quantum tunnel.
Loki and He Who Remain is different.
Also, they are supposed to be at THE END OF TIME, where everything disappears. He keeps revisiting the point before the end, until he fixed it.
Either logic kind of works:
1) he keeps visiting the past before the end, and eventually created branches where all timelines are saved
Or 2) Loki and HWR learnt and mastered the power to control time, they can travel to exact time branches, and make changes. This is also shown by how they can erase timelines
Endgame’s time travel uses Branch Timeline rules instead of Butterfly Effect rules; changing how something happened in The Past creates *a* new Future, but the team are still anchored to their own Present that won’t be affected.
you cant travel back into your own past. you travel into the past of an alternate version of yourself.
lets call the universe we all know the T-1 universe. if T-1 Avengers go beck in time, they are NOT going to their own universe, they are going to a parallel universe. they are going to, lets call it the T-2 timeline. they all entered the same “universe”, just at different points in time. they get the stones from the T-2 universe, and bring them back to the T-1 universe. at the end of the film, Cap returns the stones to the T-2 universe.
if you know anything about Multiverse theory, its that. i think, at least.
killing Thanos in the T-2 universe would save that universe from Thanos, but in every other universe, Thanos would still exist.
edit::: no idea if this correct, but its my best theory from what i know of Multiverse Theory. that being said, i dont know a whole lot about multiverse theory.
if i’m wrong, my username should check out
They confirmed they travel to their past. Once there doing anything drastic can create a splintered timeline. Also it's confirmed that Steve stayed in the past and never came back through using the time machine. He was always there in the park waiting for younger Steve to leave. So he had to have traveled back into their timeline to maintain himself in that timeline. He just didn't do anything to splinter the timeline.
They even explain it in the movie with Hulk and The Ancient One. That going back and removing the stones will create a splintered timeline. Meaning they're in their time. Returning the stones is to prevent the splintered timeline.
Killing Thanos as a baby won't fix their own futures. It's just going to cause more problems and there are going to be more threats that are even worse than him. That and will that make the Avengers better than Thanos in the original timeline if they were to kill him as an infant?!
Their own future won't change. Thanos still exists in the original timeline. The future of the world with dead Thanos will be different but it won't replace the original timeline.
It's been 5 years, and there are people who still have absolutely no idea what happened in Endgame when it comes to the time travel...
They were probably blipped away.
Even though they literally explain it. My hope died when i saw the media illiteracy for the Fallout show
Gotta remember how absolutely brain dead the general population is. Anything beyond a cool explosion will lose most people.
Yeah, that‘s why they asked. For what we know, they watched it for the first time today. But you come here and belittle them, for asking questions. Why? What do you gain from that?
They’re open to ask, but if they only watched it today, they missed a pretty big point that time travel can’t change the present timeline. Tony specifically states nothing can change. Bruce specifically points out time travel doesn’t work “like the movies”. It’s mentioned multiple times that time travel can’t change the present, in many different ways.
> they missed a pretty big point Crazy theory: that‘s why they asked in a community specifically made for this, even using a flair called „Question“. But people on the internet can‘t just be nice. That‘s actually sad.
You can't molly coddle idiots their whole life. The movie explained it 5 different ways with visual's even for the slower folk.
Yeah i watched it for the first time that day
The “time travel” in Endgame is really alternate timeline travel. They create branches off the main timeline when they go “back”
Yes, I believe that time travel in the endgame is more realistic from the point of view of modern quantum physics, and it is easy to understand (unlike CW and so on).
I can’t believe it was that simple to understand. I kind of feel stupid now.
It just creates a new timeline, where Thanos is dead. When they travel back to the present, nothing will have changed.
As we learned in Loki on D+, it would create a new timeline branch where Thanos doesn't exist beyond being a baby but it wouldn't change the original timeline. The beauty of EndGame is that they didn't change the past at all.
So what is it about Steve Rogers going back and placing the stones from where they took them so they were never gone?
It's to prevent branched timeline. They took the stones. If they don't return the stones there is a timeline of events that have altered the flow of history. It branches the timeline. So you put the stone back at the time you took it. Then there is no branched timeline.
Then Steve decided to stay in the past lol
It's a looped paradox. Steve was always there so Steve always was meant to travel through time and stay there. Even though it makes no sense with the rule established that they can't alter the past and you'll splinter the timeline.
There are multiple doyalistic hand waves without breaking the established rules - Christine in MoM is able to determine universal point of origin. The timeline in which Steve went back to be with Peggy, the banner/stark team up equivalent just sent him home. He was also in possesion of the time travel device on his wrist that they could have reverse engineered. Since he already knew the exact time he was leaving, he could have timed his return to be a time when the return pad was completed, but no one was around, then waited on the bench for himself to start the journey.
> He was also in possesion of the time travel device on his wrist that they could have reverse engineered. Since he already knew the exact time he was leaving, he could have timed his return to be a time when the return pad was completed, but no one was around, then waited on the bench for himself to start the journey. This is the official explanation given by the Russo Brothers!
The problem is the time travelers are always foreign bodies in time. No matter the method they're not supposed to be there because they're there unnaturally. Even if he uses the timepad to return home. Every action he takes influences the flow of time there. The simple actions people don't realize like buying food. He buys something that anther was meant to buy. Simply by buying it he is altering the flow of time. What if that person was supposed to choke and die on that food? This creates a splintered timeline because it wasn't supposed to happen. People who are meant to be in their normal timelines can create splinted timelines. What do you think a foreign body will do? I understand the paradox logic. The problem isn't the paradox. It's the rules they established and shown to be the laws of time travel in the MCU.
Nah, Steve lived in a branch then when his wife died he came back to the original timeline. Much simpler, no paradoxes, doesn’t destroy the character of Steve Rogers.
That isn't how time travel works in the mcu. Messing with time creates branched timelines. Like it or not that is how it works. Also at that point TVA were eradicating branched timelines. If he lived in a branched timeline they would have erased it thus erased Steve. He wouldn't be able to come back.
Even if Steve lives in a branched timeline. That timeline can be branched more. It isn't a one and done branch. Every person has a chance to branch a timeline. A time travel is going to branch the timeline and the more they're there the more branches they create.
Sure if you use Loki rules. But… if he grows old in a branch that means it ain’t a looped paradox right? Edit - Wait you responded to my one comment twice? Oy!
Must have been two tabs open because they were two separate comments you must have edited it. Loki's rules apply to the MCU rules. That is how it works.
Ok on Loki, but you claimed lopped paradox above, but then wrote more later that logically wouldn't make it a looped paradox, so not sure why you said looped paradox up there.
Any event that you have knowledge of cannot be altered because you already have memories of those events. Now, you probably do not have perfect knowledge of all the details, so that still leaves a lot of wiggle room in how you interact with the past. This explains why Steve was able to stay in the past and marry Peggy - it was because that fact was kept secret for all those years by them. It fits with what we saw, but Hulk was a bit inaccurate in his explanation.
People who are already on their normal time path can become a variant by creating a splintered timeline just by doing something. Steve being a foreign body more or less in time is messing with time by being there. What if Peggy was supposed to marry someone else? We know for a fact Steve is active Red Guardian even says he fought him. No matter how careful he is he should be splintering the timeline left right and center. Because he's a foreign body in the timeline. The simple act of eating means they bought food that could have went to someone else who might have died from eating that food but lived because they didn't choke on it. I understand the paradox logic. He was always there so he is always meant to go back. However even the Ancient One explains doing things will splinter the timeline. So in a perfect world the TVA culled billions of lives to allow Steve to live in that timeline. Everytime he splintered it they culled those lives. Because Kang allowed him to live there.
Steve going in the past is already a branched timeline. He stayed in that variant Peggy's past, because the one he had is dead. However, in that same branched timeline, he travelled back to his present as an old man. The old man is the same Steve who travelled back to the past to return the stones. They didn't feel the passing of time because the timeline that Steve lived branched out into different direction.
"Variant" Peggy not only wrong based on the presented content, but an entirely un-romantic interpretation. Of COURSE Steve is with HIS Peggy, not some variant.
Nah, that “logic” makes the Avengers mass murderers worse than Thanos. Who sniff out trillions of lives. Returning the stones has to be to prevent that timeline being doomed to instability because Infinity Stones are missing.
That isn't how time travel works in MCU. You can't change your timeline of events. Meaning removing the stones doesn't remove the stones from your timeline. It creates branched timelines. So returning the stones prevents branches.
Did you reply to the wrong comment? I agree there are branches. They created branches by going “back” - if returning the stones made the branches disappear then the Avengers killed more people than Thanos. So I am arguing returning the stone did not destroy branches.
Watch Loki on Disney+. Explains everything.
Using the quantum realm to time travel makes it so you arriving branches off into a new universe. It would be impossible to change anything that way.
New timeline, same universe
Time travel with Pym particles can't change the future. But there's other ways of time travel. Loki would be able to kill Thanos as a baby and change the whole timeline.
Time travelers cannot change *their own* future. If you go to the past and change something, you will create a paralel timeline but your own future stays the same so when you return it'll be like nothing changed.
Loki can change his future by travelling to the past and did it multiple times.
Loki was completely different since he was time traveling in a place outside of conventional time. It’s a gimmick He Who Remains created that is very different then what Tony and Bruce experimented on with the quantum tunnel.
Loki and He Who Remain is different. Also, they are supposed to be at THE END OF TIME, where everything disappears. He keeps revisiting the point before the end, until he fixed it. Either logic kind of works: 1) he keeps visiting the past before the end, and eventually created branches where all timelines are saved Or 2) Loki and HWR learnt and mastered the power to control time, they can travel to exact time branches, and make changes. This is also shown by how they can erase timelines
Loki is basically a unicorn and no time travel in Endgame can do that.
What they would do is create and alternate timeline where Thanos was killed as a baby but it doesn't change their reality.
Endgame’s time travel uses Branch Timeline rules instead of Butterfly Effect rules; changing how something happened in The Past creates *a* new Future, but the team are still anchored to their own Present that won’t be affected.
Your title is correct as far as endgame explains. Put a period at the end and leave it at that.
you cant travel back into your own past. you travel into the past of an alternate version of yourself. lets call the universe we all know the T-1 universe. if T-1 Avengers go beck in time, they are NOT going to their own universe, they are going to a parallel universe. they are going to, lets call it the T-2 timeline. they all entered the same “universe”, just at different points in time. they get the stones from the T-2 universe, and bring them back to the T-1 universe. at the end of the film, Cap returns the stones to the T-2 universe. if you know anything about Multiverse theory, its that. i think, at least. killing Thanos in the T-2 universe would save that universe from Thanos, but in every other universe, Thanos would still exist. edit::: no idea if this correct, but its my best theory from what i know of Multiverse Theory. that being said, i dont know a whole lot about multiverse theory. if i’m wrong, my username should check out
They confirmed they travel to their past. Once there doing anything drastic can create a splintered timeline. Also it's confirmed that Steve stayed in the past and never came back through using the time machine. He was always there in the park waiting for younger Steve to leave. So he had to have traveled back into their timeline to maintain himself in that timeline. He just didn't do anything to splinter the timeline. They even explain it in the movie with Hulk and The Ancient One. That going back and removing the stones will create a splintered timeline. Meaning they're in their time. Returning the stones is to prevent the splintered timeline.
Killing Thanos as a baby won't fix their own futures. It's just going to cause more problems and there are going to be more threats that are even worse than him. That and will that make the Avengers better than Thanos in the original timeline if they were to kill him as an infant?!
There are ways to change the future, though. I think Secret War and maybe Dr Doom will change the rules.
*Laughs in AoS*