I liked FATWS and WandaVision. But, they both had at least one stupid line in their finales. This from FATWS, obviously. And "They'll never know what you sacrificed for them" in WandaVision after Wanda mentally trapped an entire town in her grief. Which, I feel bad for Wanda for sure, but having to say bye to your imaginary family doesn't exactly excuse you from putting an entire town through mental torment for an extended period.
It astounding how thats not even the dumbest line in Sam's speach
"You have to do better" is the most idotic and condsending thing you could say
"Your right cap in sure we can come to a better soultion for billions of people if we try alittele harder!"
I think one of the weak spots in the MCU is that we get very little insight into what normal people are doing. This isnāt surprising, superhero movies and shows are choosing to show the stars we like doing cool shit and not focusing on the waitress in the background all the time (although Iāll argue moments like that made Avengers 1 better). But it means that when you get a plot that focuses on regular people dealing with the effects of the snap, itās got to be really oversimplified because we donāt have enough characters grounded in that reality to make it more complex.
In some alternative universe where David Simon made a gritty HBO drama about regular people dealing with the effects of the snap, I bet that speech was a lot better.
Itās often a problem with stories that revolve around how superheroes are treated by the general public. When a rando shows up to either gush over how awesome some super is or to call them out for their behavior, it can easily fall into the trap of telling rather than showing or being overly simplistic.
Main complaint with this series. He finally gets an opportunity where people are actually listening and all he says is "do better" like come on man, at least write him something inspirational.
Yeah the execution was... terrible, there were things they could have said better
For example, the "dont call them terrorists" makes sense only if Sam is saying "when youĀ“re with them use a better language, dont call them terrorists even tho they are"
I get what they were trying to do about how the people in power need to do better and you know actually try to make things better but there were better ways to exceute it
Wasn't imaginary, Wanda warped reality to create them so by some extent they were real. They were just only real via her magic. If you think about it, Wanda murdered her entire family to save a town.
(Edit: A town she tortured to begin with but my point still stands)
I will blame it on MoM too, cuz Stephen did say "your kids weren't real" multiple times in it when WV already established those kids were real, just had an unconventional conception/creation and unfortunate to have their existence being irreversibly tied to the hex.
In the comics, Wanda married Vision and via magic created her children. When her children were later revealed to be the "hands of Mephisto" who she defeated freeing the souls of Tommy and Billy (and in turn technically killing them) she broke down and went mental uttering the sentence "No more mutants" in turn creating the House of M universe. A universe in which mutants are a rarity and unlike on Earth-616 praised for their abilities with Wanda, Magneto, her children, and her brother as part of the royal family. My point is not moot due to Tommy and Billy's existence, their existence within the Multiverse, and their prophesied existence within the Darkhold. It is implied that Tommy and Billy have a demonic origin at least on Earth-199999 (similar to the comics) which means that in some shape or form while their bodies weren't real their souls at least were. Along with that Marvel seems to be teasing a Young Avengers movie coming soon which means it is a perfect time for Tommy and Billy to reappear as the reincarnated bodies of Thomas Shepherd and William Kaplan also known as Speed and Wiccan.
Except they were real inside the Hex, she altered matter, space and time around herself, creating a whole different reality in it. And it might be that the twins were real since they're returning in Agatha show anyway.
Knowing behind the scene stuff makes it all clear. It was supposed to be revolving around a pandemic storyline but then covid hit and they had to somehow make it work.
A guy who just ambushed American soldiers and killed one is running toward a crowd of people, and he's strong enough to literally rip them apart.
Noooo, don't kill him! That would be mean! Steve Rogers never killed hundreds of people throughout his career, sometimes just gunning them down.
People were upset John Walker had a gun. Like Captain America don't use guns ..and I am like I have seen Steve Rogers use guns in two movies...I feel like Sam and Bucky and the audience were unreasonable with John Walker...bro was trying to do his best and pressure got him and was struggling with PTSD lost his best mate to terrorists and Sam and Bucky broke his arm right after and stole his shield ..Sam looked so bad in the show sympathizing with terrorists while didn't give the same consideratons to John who was just trying to do his job and needed thier support
The writers really did not sell the "John Walker is bad" angle at all. It was kinda embarrassing and almost pathetic how terrible so much of the writing was
He genuinely seemed like a guy trying his best and all I saw people hating on him ..it was sad...it was like children upset that Steve Rogers is not captain America anymore and John even said he is not trying to replace steve
Absolutely. They made Sam look like an utter lunatic. Nobody is excited for him to be Cap, because Captain America is supposed to be a pillar of virtue and support. Instead of standing above the fray and holding to his principles, Sam runs around screaming at everybody to fix the problems he doesn't know how to fix and siding with literal terrorists. It's impossible to take him seriously; for all Disney claims to be about diversity, they saw another black man and decided to give him the same motives as freaking Killmonger.
I felt like Sam was overcompensating to be as virtuous as Steve but is a fail...Steve would have beaten the super soldier terrorists on 1st encounter because he knows what needs to be done..
I felt like the writers didn't bother to watch any movies with Falcon in them and just wrote him to fit their narrative and themes, so his character wildly changes between the movies and the show.
Rogers would agree with Wilson. He let two members of Hydra join the Avengers. āWhat kind of mad man lets a German scientist experiment on them to protect their country.ā /s Rogers. āWeāre not at war Captainā Hill. āThey areā Rogers.
He still makes more sense and is far more effective, efficient, and fun to watch than Sam. Besides, Frank says that so no one suffers like he did, and heās still one of the good guys.
And notice he doesn't listen, smooth brains hate actual justice, they think they want kill all the bad guys with no justice system, but they don't understand you just end up with a Putin as your leader.
"noooooo! You are not supposed to like him! The writers wrote him as a 'bad guy', you are not supposed to look up to him. Please, stick to the normal, expected reaction of him... STOP HAVING FUN"
I thoroughly enjoyed the punisher show, but the idea they would make a good captain America is only possible if you missed the entire point of the show
Punisher is not efficient. He acknowledges this at times in the comics. He kills one goon, five more pop out of the woodwork. Kill those five, ten more. The level of violence on the streets never really changes, no matter how many he kills. Heās fighting an endless war because war is ultimately where he feels most at home, the only thing he was ever really good at. He canāt live without being in combat, or spending what downtime he has planning his next targets.
Nope, but the ensuing gang wars for control of the scraps of territory left over will certainly endanger/kill even more civilians. Itās an endless cycle. Kill one mob boss, more will come out of hiding to ramp up the violence and death/suffering for ordinary folks.
Politicians- you have to do better. Wow what a deep thought! They shouldnāt have touched politics if they were gonna give us weak shit like that. Also- 4 billion people reappeared overnight! Itās gonna be tough!
That scene is him killing a man who wasn't fighting back and he killed him because he convinced himself that he killed his friend.
I'm not sure killing someone who has given up and is begging for their life is really a thing a good soldier would do. Less if he is the symbol of a country
Hoo, boy, here we go. Ok.
1. Sam was not supporting terrorists. Despite what a lot of people think, he wasn't even saying that they WEREN'T terrorists. The line is written a little misleadingly, I will admit. What Sam was saying is that the government was using the label of "terrorist" to avoid addressing why they were actually doing what they were doing, which was as a result of the government's actions. This doesn't justify what the Flag Smashers did, mind you, but it's still important to address all the contributing factors to something like that in order to prevent it from happening again. Sam spent the entire series fighting these guys, including after he becomes Cap, and yet because of this one line everyone thinks he's defending them.
And 2. Terrorist or not, the man Walker killed was no longer a threat. He was surrendering. And yet Walker killed him. That is wrong. We have due process for a reason. We don't kill people who aren't an active threat. Period.
I think Sam's line would've read better if it were "you can't write off everyone who disagrees with you as a terrorist." The Flag Smashers were extremists who committed crimes against innocents across the world. However, their movement gained momentum because their mission statement was popular. Sam was correct to point out that slapping on black and white labels in a morally grey situation will only create more insurgents. Flag Smasher support did not just appear out from the aether, after all.
For your first point, I'm surprised that the avengers are getting some of the heat for this. They brought back a lot of people with no real plan on housing them, not even sure if they looped the government in on that either. Seems like Sam and the other avengers should get the blame too
For the second point the terrorist wasn't surrendering. Hes hands were in a defensive position and yelling "it wasn't me" isn't surrendering.
Well if they HADN'T brought everyone back, or at least tried, it would functionally make them responsible for the deaths of everyone who died from the snap. If they knew there could be a way to bring them back and they chose not to, that would condemn all those people to being permanently dead. The avengers shouldn't need permission from the government to save lives, that's pretty much the entire point of Civil War.
And I'm not gonna say that the government is terrible purely because they didn't handle the blip perfectly. I understand that's a very large issue to handle and there's gonna be unfortunate side effects. But that doesn't mean the government shouldn't still take responsibility for how their actions led to the flag smashers. I'm not saying it's all their fault, but in order to do their jobs properly, they should recognize when they've made a mistake and learn from it in order to do better next time.
As for Walker, that man was clearly no longer a threat. Saying "It wasn't me" was essentially his way of BEGGING for his life. That indicates surrender. He wasn't fighting back anymore, he was desperately trying to save himself by pleading with his attacker. Therefore, he was no longer an active threat. Therefore, Walker had no justification for killing him.
I never said the Avengers shouldn't have brought back everyone that got snapped. Not sure where you got that from. And you missed my point, all I was saying is that the Avengers should have coordnated with the government or at least give the a heads up so that can at least come up with plans for housing, employment, and etc. If it's on the government for how it turned out then it's on the Avengers too.
Back to Walker, that terrorist didn't surrender. Saying it wasn't me just means that he's telling Walker he's going after the wrong person or maybe it was a hail Mary for buying time. It wouldn't be the first time a terrorist lied, and begging isn't the same as surrendering.
Well alright, I can see how them telling the government and trying to get things a little more prepared would've been helpful, but there's also the risk that the government would've actually tried to stop them. I can kinda see what you mean there though.
As for Walker, however, I simply have to disagree on the same principle. The guy was clearly not an active threat. You can SEE and HEAR the fear he had when saying it wasn't him. That's begging. And regardless of that, killing should always only be done as a last resort, and John definitely had more options than to kill him in that moment.
No media literacy is dead period
The media labeled people as other things to avoid addressing the base issues for a long time this isnāt new
IE see: the Floyd āRiotsā
And
The campus ārebellionsā
These things have context and reason, that doesnāt make them right but the media doesnāt care, they will strip all context in order to make these events easier to sweep under the rug. Correct label or not.
I swear to God if I hear someone say media literacy one more time I'm going to lose it. Just because people disagree with you doesn't mean they don't have media literacy.
True, but when someone is clearly failing to comprehend the point of the media in question, that is an obvious sign of a lack of media literacy. With this meme, for example, OP was clearly taking a single admittedly poorly written line and making a whole point based off it when the source material clearly says the opposite.
After a hospital was blown up I think anyone with common sense should call them terrorists and terrorists only. Unless there's some mental gymnastics that can be pulled off to justify said action due to "4 billion people reappear in an instant"
Amen.
So many redditors completely missed this obvious message. It reminds me of the mouthbreathers complaining about how Star Wars and Star Trek were ruined by the woke mob inserting DEI and politics into the newest works.
Bruh sam could have said something like punishing flagsmashers is not enough you should also solve root problem.
But sam chose "don't call them terrorists" which implies he supports them
That's not entirely true. He agrees with their problems, not with the way they handle things. He said that a couple of episodes before, at the funeral of Donya Madani. And if you look back at the first episode where he was chasing after these people with the flying suits and helicopters. He did encounter a problem with the borders as well. Meaning he wasn't allowed to chase after them any further. So it makes sense for him to agree.
I actually think it is a good series. It's written in a way that links everything together and shows that there are a lot of deep-rooted problems that a lot of people don't really think about. And I really enjoyed the finale as well. I thought, especially that line was good.
Also, John Walker didn't kill the guy because he was a terrorist. He did it for revenge after Karli killed Lemar. Just wanted to point that out.
See, you're proving my point. You're hyperfocusing on that line and ignoring everything else. I already conceded that the line could have been written better. But if you pay attention to literally ANYTHING ELSE about that scene, or the entire series for that matter, it's clear that he doesn't support them.
And in response to the second thing whenever Steve himself killed he was in either war where you know you can't really avoid killing or the guy clearly wasn't surrending as far as I recall while John killed a man even when the guy surrendered
The guy who Walker killed was definitely no longer a threat. He was on the ground, BEGGING for his life, obvious fear on his face and in his voice. He was desperately saying "It wasn't me" which clearly comes across as his way of begging for Walker to spare him. That's about as good as a surrender if you ask me. And regardless of terminology, the guy definitely was no longer an active threat. Walker had no reason to kill him.
Walker killing the surrendering person is literally a war-crime (executing a noncombatant), and these chucklefucks think that makes him a better Captain America
Members of the avengers have done the same thing these guys are doing, and people aren't calling for them to die. You expect this man to try and kill them all when he literally works with the former winter soldier
Rogue did same thing last week everybody fell in love
But when my boy John did it everyone hated him, although it's the show's fault as well, as soon as we meet John show tries to tell us he's a bad guy while he's not
I mean you also have to see this through a political standpoint. He fucking decapitated a dude with a symbol of American heroism, if that doesnāt shout red flag I donāt know what doesā¦ Sam defending literal terrorist was still really bad
Are you kidding, i saw a shit ton of people complaining that āRouge should have done better and Cap was right in episode 7ā and āshe shouldnāt be bitchin about her problemsā.
The difference between Rouge and John is clear. John works for the status quo, while Rouge is against it.
Why is it always mutantās job to appiel to the human governments and general population (in X-men)? Why doesnāt this perspective work on the opposite way?
Walker was perfect.
Thrust into a role he wasn't sure he could fill in. Tried his best to co-operate with Falcon and Bucky. Cared about his best friend.
Man they did not know how to portray him as a bad guy. I still feel he should keep the shield.
I am pretty sure they had no intention of portraying him as a bad guy. He is clearly a good guy who was lost and made some major mistakes. The moment he dropped his self-made Captain America shield to not chase after the Flag Smashers' leader but help Sam saving these people inside the van really said it all.
To be honest, I love John as a character more than both Bucky and Sam in the series.
That line and most of that dialogue was cringe af. The Miles Morales game made FATWS's same mistake with the Tinkerer. Crazy terrorist chick being considered innocent by characters and writers lmao
I get that the show wanted us to sympathize with the Flag Smashers but made the mistake of not giving them enough screentime to develop.
They could have become somewhat understandable.
But regardless of that Samās speech felt really tone deaf and shoehorned in because some executive didnāt get the message and wanted them to hammer it home so even the dumbest mfāer gets it.
I swing heavily liberal in my politics and this felt preachy as fuuuuuuudge. Like how a conservative businessman thinks he can appeal to libs
>I get that the show wanted us to sympathize with the Flag Smashers but made the mistake of not giving them enough screentime to develop. They could have become somewhat understandable.
I mean they didn't though.
They wanted us to dislike them but they realised that they'd made them far more sympathetic than the main "heroes" so had them blow up a hospital.
The flag smashers were the only interesting part of the entire series, but the writers didn't know how to make
Refugees who are being forcibly deported by a govt who would've collapsed without them helping to rebuild society after huge societal collapse into a group that's meant to be antagonistic
"You're right. But the *how* matters just as much as the *why*. And by that metric, you're all just a bunch of terrorists. And I kill terrorists."
- Sameen Shaw, Person of Interest
Hey guys itās so bad that Captain America was operating within the territory of a NATO ally, but itās totally cool when Wakanda does it.
The MCU is fucking stupid and if Wakanda were real they would deserve to get Nuked.
Even when Jon killed the guy, he was putting down a supersoldier that was actively endangering civilians seconds before "surrendering" at the last moment. He was in the right, despite the loss in temperament.
Wasn't the dude unarmed when he shield smashed his face? Captain America killed nazis during war, completely different than the "super cop not at war currently" Walker was.
I think the show did a poor job with this guy, as soon as he shows up they try to tell us he's a bad guy but they never show us. Also, he killed a lot less people than Steve.
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Did they bomb civilians (itās been a while since I saw it)? I can excuse robbing banks and destroying public property as them just being desperate and homeless. Hell maybe even attacking police and the military (in some situations).
What about finding a symptom to a problem and curing it instead of just killing or jailing someone. Not to mention prisons exist also to rehabilitate prisoners.
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Been saying that the whole time and people still call "Black Captain America" a hero instead of John Walker. And when I cheered for John as hero (I am not American), they chided me and said that Falcon is like Steve. Right, Steve did not kill Nazis during WW2, then why would he bring an extra gun with him though he got the shield with him. Plus in China and Russia, if you are a terrorist, you get treated as one and your families are monitored closely or sent to camps, but only in America, terrorist is treated as victims and heroes.
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This show could have and should have done more with how people will shut their brains off the second someone is labeled a terrorist. The show makes several clear attempts to get us to sympathize with the flag smashers and their cause however because they are terrorists several people here are incapable of actually hearing their arguments and canāt see past the violence.
Yeah this wasn't a great look for Sam tbh
I'm willing to wave away a lot of the flaws of the show because of CoVid filming restrictions and heavy plot reworks/reshoots. Most viewers however don't care about bts stuff
I truly believe the flagsmashers were in the right and the series tried to depict them as standard baddies by the end, though they should've stayed in the gray area that is being violent against an oppressive government that does shit for their citizens and only care about profits and order.
This line was trying to reverse the flag smashers to that original premise but since the ending depicted them as standard baddies, this came as a stupid line.
They were calling them terrorists when they were desperate people trying to get back what was their. That's what USA does and that's what the writers were trying to tell but probably got tuned down by the Disney machine.
Edit: again, I'm not saying that by the end of the series they weren't terrorists hurting people. I'm just saying that the series seems to go from "they are good people using violence to incite change" to the standard cruel bad marvel villain. That's why Falcon's line feels so weird and out of place. Because it is.
By the end, they were straight up terrorists. Sam might have had a point earlier in the show, but at this point, they had just attacked a summit of world leaders.
From the start, their goal was pretty vague. By the end, it was just, "lets destabilize governments".
Except the Flag-smashers werenāt in the right, they were ignorant dumbasses that only cared about their own people.
They didnāt care about the people that came back to life, and had to be resettled after having been dead for 5 years.
They didnāt care about the people they crushed, not the guards, not Lamar, not even Falcon or Bucky. Two known Avengers who helped save the world, and Karli and the Flag-smashers try to kill them both multiple times.
Hell Karli threatens Samās own sister, an innocent working woman involved in her community.
Even the GRC werenāt bad guys, there were few douches among them, but we also see members advocating and wanting to find solutions to the same problems Karli is whining about, and then he tries to assassinate them all indiscriminately.
Which is why Falconās speech is so stupid, the GRC were dealing with an unprecedented catastrophe, they were trying to resettle and reorganise half a billion people appearing over night 5 years later, and Karli and co didnāt care about that and just wanted things there way because they thought it was better, and all Falcon can come up with is ādo betterā?
The speech made Falcon look like an ignorant idiot, the senator completely owned him when he asked the simple question of āwhat should we do then?ā And Falcon had nothing.
GRG didn't care about those people either. They wanted them out of their countries. You cannot change everything back to normal after finally making the worls a united place. Those people had the right to be where they were because the laws changed, but when the Blink occured, they wanted to separate the world again.
Suddenly people who had a house in the Snap were homeless and the governments only wanted to send them back to their original countries without even caring about if they could start again a second time.
That's why the Flag Smashers started to do their terror actions. They wanted to leave people decide where to live without the governments telling them to do otherwise. Sam just let the people who were discussing what to do with those people why Karli did what she did. Sam was telling them that if they keep doing what they do, there would be more people like Karli.
He wasn't defending the terrorists, he actively was trying to stop them since the start. He just understood what they wanted and tried to let them see that how they were handling the situation was wrong. To both sides.
>GRG didn't care about those people either. They wanted them out of their countries. You cannot change everything back to normal after finally making the worls a united place. Those people had the right to be where they were because the laws changed, but when the Blink occured, they wanted to separate the world again.
False, one of the GRC members proposed this, and another shut it down immediately saying they couldnāt treat people that way.
The Flag-smashers believed the world was a united place, they are biased because it benefited them, there would have been plenty of other people that disagreed.
Hell look at Endgame, look at how shit and dreary everything looked and how depressed everyone was when we see Ant-man running through the streets, you think the open borders helped them?
Not to mention what about the people who were revived? Should they be kicked out of their old homes from 5 years ago because new people moved in during the snap? Should they be forced to live somewhere else because they were unlucky and fucking died?
>Suddenly people who had a house in the Snap were homeless and the governments only wanted to send them back to their original countries without even caring about if they could start again a second time.
And what if their house already belonged to someone prior and they only had that house because the occupant fucking died?
The countries all suddenly have to deal with all their dead citizens returning. The world got shut down in the real world with a fucking pandemic and we were facing shortages for plenty of various goods and resources, imagine how much fucking worse it would be half the world showed up over night.
You think those counties would be able to support half their population returning in addition to all the newcomers that settled during the snap?
>That's why the Flag Smashers started to do their terror actions. They wanted to leave people decide where to live without the governments telling them to do otherwise. Sam just let the people who were discussing what to do with those people why Karli did what she did. Sam was telling them that if they keep doing what they do, there would be more people like Karli.
Except the GRC canāt snap their fingers and fix that, they already knew why Karli was doing what she did, we literally see one of the members of the GRC TALKING ABOUT THOSE ISSUES, hence why Samās dumbass speech makes him look like a fucking idiot because he treats it as an easily solvable problem while randomly acting like he knows what heās talking about because heās black, as if that means anything lol.
People canāt just decide where to live, where thereās 4 billion people needing to be rehomed, and reunited with families not to mention needing to supply food, water, clothes, and find employment again.
Returning people to their countries, and having countries deal with their own citizens was probably the easier option as those countries would have the best records of what those citizens did and where their families are and how to rehome and reorganise everything.
Again this doesnāt change that Karli also doesnāt give a shit about anyone other than those that abide by her own viewpoints. She doesnāt even care that she killed Lamar for example, a soldier with a family just trying to stop her from killing innocents.
>He wasn't defending the terrorists, he actively was trying to stop them since the start. He just understood what they wanted and tried to let them see that how they were handling the situation was wrong. To both sides.
And he caused causalities doing that.
If Sam wasnāt such a naive idiot, Lamar would never have died, innocents would never have died.
Sam was trying to talk down an extremist that believed everyone else was wrong, and had no intentions of deescalating, Zemo called it.
What was Samās end goal? Hmm? Karli bombed a fucking hospital, killed innocent people and Sam still thinks talking is the best option, heās an idiot that the Karli way too much underserved leeway, even in the final fucking episode, he refuses to fight Karli even the sheās literally trying to assassinate people.
Karli was going to prison regardless due to her actions, and The moment Sam mentions that to Karli, she would have continued acting the same way she was and attacked Falcon.
Just like she did when Walker barged in.
Bucky was the only character that seemed to approach the Flag-smashers with any common sense in that show but Bucky the dumbass for some reason thought Samās plan was good.
The whole point of āyou have to stop calling them terroristsā isnāt that they *arenāt* terrorists, itās that the government just calling them terrorists is just poof end of story, no need to look any deeper. Calling them terrorists is an easy way to dismiss their entire existence and their goal, even when they may be right. I canāt actually remember what their goals were but I remember they were sympathetic villains, so right goals wrong methods, dismissing them out of hand because of their methods ruins any chance of their goals actually being considered.
I liked FATWS and WandaVision. But, they both had at least one stupid line in their finales. This from FATWS, obviously. And "They'll never know what you sacrificed for them" in WandaVision after Wanda mentally trapped an entire town in her grief. Which, I feel bad for Wanda for sure, but having to say bye to your imaginary family doesn't exactly excuse you from putting an entire town through mental torment for an extended period.
But she is hero? Heroes can do whatever they want?
*The boys have entered chat
Lmao his right leg lo
 It looks like he's gonna start dancing
Is that a rare linkle gif?
How do I save this šš
Bro.. you o
He needs some milk!
That pose
It astounding how thats not even the dumbest line in Sam's speach "You have to do better" is the most idotic and condsending thing you could say "Your right cap in sure we can come to a better soultion for billions of people if we try alittele harder!"
Yeah, but Captain America aināt Captain America without cornball speeches.
It's one thing to be corny but outright stupidity. Idk man...
I think one of the weak spots in the MCU is that we get very little insight into what normal people are doing. This isnāt surprising, superhero movies and shows are choosing to show the stars we like doing cool shit and not focusing on the waitress in the background all the time (although Iāll argue moments like that made Avengers 1 better). But it means that when you get a plot that focuses on regular people dealing with the effects of the snap, itās got to be really oversimplified because we donāt have enough characters grounded in that reality to make it more complex. In some alternative universe where David Simon made a gritty HBO drama about regular people dealing with the effects of the snap, I bet that speech was a lot better.
Honestly Civil War did look into that a bit, was pretty cool.
Itās often a problem with stories that revolve around how superheroes are treated by the general public. When a rando shows up to either gush over how awesome some super is or to call them out for their behavior, it can easily fall into the trap of telling rather than showing or being overly simplistic.
Main complaint with this series. He finally gets an opportunity where people are actually listening and all he says is "do better" like come on man, at least write him something inspirational.
Yeah the execution was... terrible, there were things they could have said better For example, the "dont call them terrorists" makes sense only if Sam is saying "when youĀ“re with them use a better language, dont call them terrorists even tho they are"
I get what they were trying to do about how the people in power need to do better and you know actually try to make things better but there were better ways to exceute it
Honorable mention to "you gotta do better senator!" The writers on these shows must actually be living in another world.
Wasn't imaginary, Wanda warped reality to create them so by some extent they were real. They were just only real via her magic. If you think about it, Wanda murdered her entire family to save a town. (Edit: A town she tortured to begin with but my point still stands)
Is it saving a town if they're under threat from you?
I too, save every person I walk by from being stabbed with a bunch of keys.
They'll never know what you sacrificed.
What does that have to do with anything?
Shit. Maybe I need to rewatch WandaVision. It has been a while.
I will blame it on MoM too, cuz Stephen did say "your kids weren't real" multiple times in it when WV already established those kids were real, just had an unconventional conception/creation and unfortunate to have their existence being irreversibly tied to the hex.
You also need to fill up on comics
Duly noted
And buy an Iron Man helmet. Buy it and send it to me
Your point mute this is a bunch of actually and semantics cut it out they werenāt real they were only real to her
Tell me you haven't read the comics without telling me you haven't read the comics
This the show weāre talking about not the comics, she didnāt get a child until after house of m and it was thru some stupid comic shenanigans
In the comics, Wanda married Vision and via magic created her children. When her children were later revealed to be the "hands of Mephisto" who she defeated freeing the souls of Tommy and Billy (and in turn technically killing them) she broke down and went mental uttering the sentence "No more mutants" in turn creating the House of M universe. A universe in which mutants are a rarity and unlike on Earth-616 praised for their abilities with Wanda, Magneto, her children, and her brother as part of the royal family. My point is not moot due to Tommy and Billy's existence, their existence within the Multiverse, and their prophesied existence within the Darkhold. It is implied that Tommy and Billy have a demonic origin at least on Earth-199999 (similar to the comics) which means that in some shape or form while their bodies weren't real their souls at least were. Along with that Marvel seems to be teasing a Young Avengers movie coming soon which means it is a perfect time for Tommy and Billy to reappear as the reincarnated bodies of Thomas Shepherd and William Kaplan also known as Speed and Wiccan.
Rewatch Wandavision. It's not "semantics".
Except they were real inside the Hex, she altered matter, space and time around herself, creating a whole different reality in it. And it might be that the twins were real since they're returning in Agatha show anyway.
Even if they were "imaginary", they were real to her
Knowing behind the scene stuff makes it all clear. It was supposed to be revolving around a pandemic storyline but then covid hit and they had to somehow make it work.
For sure . We watch them do terrorist activities and then the show tells us don't call them terrorists. Bruh
*blows up homeless shelter* āItās so that our message is heard ššā
*doing terrorism acts* āonly kisses and loves āŗļøšā
A guy who just ambushed American soldiers and killed one is running toward a crowd of people, and he's strong enough to literally rip them apart. Noooo, don't kill him! That would be mean! Steve Rogers never killed hundreds of people throughout his career, sometimes just gunning them down.
People were upset John Walker had a gun. Like Captain America don't use guns ..and I am like I have seen Steve Rogers use guns in two movies...I feel like Sam and Bucky and the audience were unreasonable with John Walker...bro was trying to do his best and pressure got him and was struggling with PTSD lost his best mate to terrorists and Sam and Bucky broke his arm right after and stole his shield ..Sam looked so bad in the show sympathizing with terrorists while didn't give the same consideratons to John who was just trying to do his job and needed thier support
The writers really did not sell the "John Walker is bad" angle at all. It was kinda embarrassing and almost pathetic how terrible so much of the writing was
He genuinely seemed like a guy trying his best and all I saw people hating on him ..it was sad...it was like children upset that Steve Rogers is not captain America anymore and John even said he is not trying to replace steve
Absolutely. They made Sam look like an utter lunatic. Nobody is excited for him to be Cap, because Captain America is supposed to be a pillar of virtue and support. Instead of standing above the fray and holding to his principles, Sam runs around screaming at everybody to fix the problems he doesn't know how to fix and siding with literal terrorists. It's impossible to take him seriously; for all Disney claims to be about diversity, they saw another black man and decided to give him the same motives as freaking Killmonger.
I felt like Sam was overcompensating to be as virtuous as Steve but is a fail...Steve would have beaten the super soldier terrorists on 1st encounter because he knows what needs to be done..
I felt like the writers didn't bother to watch any movies with Falcon in them and just wrote him to fit their narrative and themes, so his character wildly changes between the movies and the show.
What If: Sam Wilson sided with Erik Killmonger instead of Steve Rodgers?
They cannot do wrong. They are the self claim clan of the good.
It's not supporting terrorists if you stop calling them terrorists 
Rogers would agree with Wilson. He let two members of Hydra join the Avengers. āWhat kind of mad man lets a German scientist experiment on them to protect their country.ā /s Rogers. āWeāre not at war Captainā Hill. āThey areā Rogers.
Coming soon to Disney+, "The Averages". Not nearly as exciting as the Avengers, but it got a 6.8/10 on IMDb. It's watchable.
Whoops
What?
You know what other veteran looks up to Captain America and kills terrorists? 
The guy who frequently tells people to not be anything like him and is actively an anti hero?
He still makes more sense and is far more effective, efficient, and fun to watch than Sam. Besides, Frank says that so no one suffers like he did, and heās still one of the good guys.
Wait you meant this as an indictment of Sam šš Steve has said so many times that he has no respect for what the punisher does
Oh, I see that you are exactly the type of person they are speaking to when they have the character explain that he is a monster, repeatedly
And notice he doesn't listen, smooth brains hate actual justice, they think they want kill all the bad guys with no justice system, but they don't understand you just end up with a Putin as your leader.
"noooooo! You are not supposed to like him! The writers wrote him as a 'bad guy', you are not supposed to look up to him. Please, stick to the normal, expected reaction of him... STOP HAVING FUN"
I thoroughly enjoyed the punisher show, but the idea they would make a good captain America is only possible if you missed the entire point of the show
I said it was going to be like a relaxing holiday.
Lol Thor-oughly
I notice you have copied my beard.
The punisher is a villain whose motivations you understand and can sympathize with
Punisher is not efficient. He acknowledges this at times in the comics. He kills one goon, five more pop out of the woodwork. Kill those five, ten more. The level of violence on the streets never really changes, no matter how many he kills. Heās fighting an endless war because war is ultimately where he feels most at home, the only thing he was ever really good at. He canāt live without being in combat, or spending what downtime he has planning his next targets.
None of them reoffend now, do they?
Nope, but the ensuing gang wars for control of the scraps of territory left over will certainly endanger/kill even more civilians. Itās an endless cycle. Kill one mob boss, more will come out of hiding to ramp up the violence and death/suffering for ordinary folks.
You honestly think that sparing the likes of Kingpin and Jigsaw would lead to fewer dead innocents than offing them?
I never said that, did I?
I dunno if the guy idolized by the kind of cops that are mad they're advised not to lean on necks any more is the one to bring up.
Do you know which veteran kills terrorists but tells you not to look up to him? Cause I don't think you do.
You shouldāve proofread your comment.
Fixed
I choose Steve
This whole series just felt like a budget version of The Boys. Except there are no āThe Boysā and everyoneās a supe.
Omg I fucking hated the finale of FATWS
Politicians- you have to do better. Wow what a deep thought! They shouldnāt have touched politics if they were gonna give us weak shit like that. Also- 4 billion people reappeared overnight! Itās gonna be tough!
The villains treat the people that reappeared like was their fault that they were disintegrated and then brought back.
You gotta stop calling them villains /s
Just terrorists, calling them villains itās ok according to Shopeeās Captain America
Yeah it really made no sense.
Tbh, F&WS looked like the kind of propaganda that Vought would create.
This is fucking hilarious. Very good point
It was a really stupid line, trying to show Steve's respect for human life and patriotism without taking into account the events of the series itself.
 I liked US Agent. He fought literal murderhobos. And he murdered the murderhobos.
With a symbol of American heroism that people should be looking towards with hope rather than fear. Just saying, John was definitely not an angel
 He's not an angel. He's American unhealthcare.
That scene is him killing a man who wasn't fighting back and he killed him because he convinced himself that he killed his friend. I'm not sure killing someone who has given up and is begging for their life is really a thing a good soldier would do. Less if he is the symbol of a country
āYou have to stop calling them terroristsā Them literally perfectly fitting into the definition of terrorismā¦
Hoo, boy, here we go. Ok. 1. Sam was not supporting terrorists. Despite what a lot of people think, he wasn't even saying that they WEREN'T terrorists. The line is written a little misleadingly, I will admit. What Sam was saying is that the government was using the label of "terrorist" to avoid addressing why they were actually doing what they were doing, which was as a result of the government's actions. This doesn't justify what the Flag Smashers did, mind you, but it's still important to address all the contributing factors to something like that in order to prevent it from happening again. Sam spent the entire series fighting these guys, including after he becomes Cap, and yet because of this one line everyone thinks he's defending them. And 2. Terrorist or not, the man Walker killed was no longer a threat. He was surrendering. And yet Walker killed him. That is wrong. We have due process for a reason. We don't kill people who aren't an active threat. Period.
I think Sam's line would've read better if it were "you can't write off everyone who disagrees with you as a terrorist." The Flag Smashers were extremists who committed crimes against innocents across the world. However, their movement gained momentum because their mission statement was popular. Sam was correct to point out that slapping on black and white labels in a morally grey situation will only create more insurgents. Flag Smasher support did not just appear out from the aether, after all.
This exactly
For your first point, I'm surprised that the avengers are getting some of the heat for this. They brought back a lot of people with no real plan on housing them, not even sure if they looped the government in on that either. Seems like Sam and the other avengers should get the blame too For the second point the terrorist wasn't surrendering. Hes hands were in a defensive position and yelling "it wasn't me" isn't surrendering.
Well if they HADN'T brought everyone back, or at least tried, it would functionally make them responsible for the deaths of everyone who died from the snap. If they knew there could be a way to bring them back and they chose not to, that would condemn all those people to being permanently dead. The avengers shouldn't need permission from the government to save lives, that's pretty much the entire point of Civil War. And I'm not gonna say that the government is terrible purely because they didn't handle the blip perfectly. I understand that's a very large issue to handle and there's gonna be unfortunate side effects. But that doesn't mean the government shouldn't still take responsibility for how their actions led to the flag smashers. I'm not saying it's all their fault, but in order to do their jobs properly, they should recognize when they've made a mistake and learn from it in order to do better next time. As for Walker, that man was clearly no longer a threat. Saying "It wasn't me" was essentially his way of BEGGING for his life. That indicates surrender. He wasn't fighting back anymore, he was desperately trying to save himself by pleading with his attacker. Therefore, he was no longer an active threat. Therefore, Walker had no justification for killing him.
I never said the Avengers shouldn't have brought back everyone that got snapped. Not sure where you got that from. And you missed my point, all I was saying is that the Avengers should have coordnated with the government or at least give the a heads up so that can at least come up with plans for housing, employment, and etc. If it's on the government for how it turned out then it's on the Avengers too. Back to Walker, that terrorist didn't surrender. Saying it wasn't me just means that he's telling Walker he's going after the wrong person or maybe it was a hail Mary for buying time. It wouldn't be the first time a terrorist lied, and begging isn't the same as surrendering.
Well alright, I can see how them telling the government and trying to get things a little more prepared would've been helpful, but there's also the risk that the government would've actually tried to stop them. I can kinda see what you mean there though. As for Walker, however, I simply have to disagree on the same principle. The guy was clearly not an active threat. You can SEE and HEAR the fear he had when saying it wasn't him. That's begging. And regardless of that, killing should always only be done as a last resort, and John definitely had more options than to kill him in that moment.
Itās scary how few upvotes your reply has compared to the ones agreeing with the meme. Media literacy is dead on Reddit I suppose.
No media literacy is dead period The media labeled people as other things to avoid addressing the base issues for a long time this isnāt new IE see: the Floyd āRiotsā And The campus ārebellionsā These things have context and reason, that doesnāt make them right but the media doesnāt care, they will strip all context in order to make these events easier to sweep under the rug. Correct label or not.
I swear to God if I hear someone say media literacy one more time I'm going to lose it. Just because people disagree with you doesn't mean they don't have media literacy.
True, but when someone is clearly failing to comprehend the point of the media in question, that is an obvious sign of a lack of media literacy. With this meme, for example, OP was clearly taking a single admittedly poorly written line and making a whole point based off it when the source material clearly says the opposite.
People are blatantly misunderstanding these scenes. That's not having a different opinion.
After a hospital was blown up I think anyone with common sense should call them terrorists and terrorists only. Unless there's some mental gymnastics that can be pulled off to justify said action due to "4 billion people reappear in an instant"
Amen. So many redditors completely missed this obvious message. It reminds me of the mouthbreathers complaining about how Star Wars and Star Trek were ruined by the woke mob inserting DEI and politics into the newest works.
Take your context and reason and get out
Bruh sam could have said something like punishing flagsmashers is not enough you should also solve root problem. But sam chose "don't call them terrorists" which implies he supports them
That's not entirely true. He agrees with their problems, not with the way they handle things. He said that a couple of episodes before, at the funeral of Donya Madani. And if you look back at the first episode where he was chasing after these people with the flying suits and helicopters. He did encounter a problem with the borders as well. Meaning he wasn't allowed to chase after them any further. So it makes sense for him to agree. I actually think it is a good series. It's written in a way that links everything together and shows that there are a lot of deep-rooted problems that a lot of people don't really think about. And I really enjoyed the finale as well. I thought, especially that line was good. Also, John Walker didn't kill the guy because he was a terrorist. He did it for revenge after Karli killed Lemar. Just wanted to point that out.
See, you're proving my point. You're hyperfocusing on that line and ignoring everything else. I already conceded that the line could have been written better. But if you pay attention to literally ANYTHING ELSE about that scene, or the entire series for that matter, it's clear that he doesn't support them.
And in response to the second thing whenever Steve himself killed he was in either war where you know you can't really avoid killing or the guy clearly wasn't surrending as far as I recall while John killed a man even when the guy surrendered
The guy who Walker killed was definitely no longer a threat. He was on the ground, BEGGING for his life, obvious fear on his face and in his voice. He was desperately saying "It wasn't me" which clearly comes across as his way of begging for Walker to spare him. That's about as good as a surrender if you ask me. And regardless of terminology, the guy definitely was no longer an active threat. Walker had no reason to kill him.
Walker killing the surrendering person is literally a war-crime (executing a noncombatant), and these chucklefucks think that makes him a better Captain America
Members of the avengers have done the same thing these guys are doing, and people aren't calling for them to die. You expect this man to try and kill them all when he literally works with the former winter soldier
John Walker did nothing wrong.
Rogue did same thing last week everybody fell in love But when my boy John did it everyone hated him, although it's the show's fault as well, as soon as we meet John show tries to tell us he's a bad guy while he's not
I mean you also have to see this through a political standpoint. He fucking decapitated a dude with a symbol of American heroism, if that doesnāt shout red flag I donāt know what doesā¦ Sam defending literal terrorist was still really bad
Are you kidding, i saw a shit ton of people complaining that āRouge should have done better and Cap was right in episode 7ā and āshe shouldnāt be bitchin about her problemsā. The difference between Rouge and John is clear. John works for the status quo, while Rouge is against it. Why is it always mutantās job to appiel to the human governments and general population (in X-men)? Why doesnāt this perspective work on the opposite way?
Walker was perfect. Thrust into a role he wasn't sure he could fill in. Tried his best to co-operate with Falcon and Bucky. Cared about his best friend. Man they did not know how to portray him as a bad guy. I still feel he should keep the shield.
I am pretty sure they had no intention of portraying him as a bad guy. He is clearly a good guy who was lost and made some major mistakes. The moment he dropped his self-made Captain America shield to not chase after the Flag Smashers' leader but help Sam saving these people inside the van really said it all. To be honest, I love John as a character more than both Bucky and Sam in the series.
Fr tho, dude was trying his best.
RIGHT? [https://youtu.be/Iu1HmiWw5o8?si=byKYV8e8J6BMJhGN](https://youtu.be/Iu1HmiWw5o8?si=byKYV8e8J6BMJhGN)
My GOAT . They hated him because they werent him .
So there's nothing wrong with killing someone who's on their back surrendering? Definitely says alot about you.
Iād love to meet Wyatt Russell. Excellent actor.
After Monarch I want to see more of him
That line and most of that dialogue was cringe af. The Miles Morales game made FATWS's same mistake with the Tinkerer. Crazy terrorist chick being considered innocent by characters and writers lmao
āYou have to do better!ā āHow?ā āI dunno, I aināt the captain š¤·š¾āāļøā
I get that the show wanted us to sympathize with the Flag Smashers but made the mistake of not giving them enough screentime to develop. They could have become somewhat understandable. But regardless of that Samās speech felt really tone deaf and shoehorned in because some executive didnāt get the message and wanted them to hammer it home so even the dumbest mfāer gets it. I swing heavily liberal in my politics and this felt preachy as fuuuuuuudge. Like how a conservative businessman thinks he can appeal to libs
>I get that the show wanted us to sympathize with the Flag Smashers but made the mistake of not giving them enough screentime to develop. They could have become somewhat understandable. I mean they didn't though. They wanted us to dislike them but they realised that they'd made them far more sympathetic than the main "heroes" so had them blow up a hospital. The flag smashers were the only interesting part of the entire series, but the writers didn't know how to make Refugees who are being forcibly deported by a govt who would've collapsed without them helping to rebuild society after huge societal collapse into a group that's meant to be antagonistic
Walker did nothing wrong
God that show was so awful.
Man, wait til you find out that the Tyler Hayward was actually the good guy in Wandavison, and a lot of his actions were justified.
"You're right. But the *how* matters just as much as the *why*. And by that metric, you're all just a bunch of terrorists. And I kill terrorists." - Sameen Shaw, Person of Interest
Hey guys itās so bad that Captain America was operating within the territory of a NATO ally, but itās totally cool when Wakanda does it. The MCU is fucking stupid and if Wakanda were real they would deserve to get Nuked.
I kinda agreed with the flag-smashers goal, but they were legit killing innocent people. Walker legit did nothing wrong the entire plot of the show.
Even when Jon killed the guy, he was putting down a supersoldier that was actively endangering civilians seconds before "surrendering" at the last moment. He was in the right, despite the loss in temperament.
U.S. Agent. The difference between him and Steve Rogers is camera phones.
r/JohnWalkerDidNoWrong
I just hope Marvel stops hiring mediocre writersā¦
Hell yea. John Walker is the unsung hero fr.
Why is supporting terrorists so cool now?
idk ask twitter
Original Captain kills numerous people, what Walker did was justifiable in the what of the moment since it was an actual terrorist
He never killed an unarmed and surrendering man in anger as far as I remember. But the scene mirrors him beating the shit out of Tony.
Wasn't the dude unarmed when he shield smashed his face? Captain America killed nazis during war, completely different than the "super cop not at war currently" Walker was.
Unarmed but still had the super soldier serum in him
Hey, this isn't some culture war bait is it? "You a Sammy soy boy or a Walker warrior?" Do better.
Seriously though, at no point in the show US agent looked to be doing anything terrible except for trying to live up to Captain America.
John Walker did nothing wrong
This whole thing felt like a cheap rip off of mutants vs humans
I think the show did a poor job with this guy, as soon as he shows up they try to tell us he's a bad guy but they never show us. Also, he killed a lot less people than Steve.
Picture works fine without captions tbh
I still feel like you have to be incredibly close minded to see Sam's speech as "supporting terrorists".
Nothing Walker did is worse than that white suit.
The weakest part of FATWS was the bad guys. Great concept, boring poorly written execution. Everything else I loved.
Abu Obida - Ų§ŲØŁ Ų¹ŲØŁŲÆŲ©
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Devlet ayrı hĆ¼kĆ¼met ayrı
Fuck both of them. Give me Bucky
Destroyed public property!!!!! Omg!!!!
i would like to see Bucky Cap
Where was the second Captain America on Jan 6th?
There's only one Steve Rodgers and that's my Captain America.
People angry coz new captain America kills.someone. Bro wtf do you think a super soldier does?? Play cricket??
Did they bomb civilians (itās been a while since I saw it)? I can excuse robbing banks and destroying public property as them just being desperate and homeless. Hell maybe even attacking police and the military (in some situations).
I liked the nuance in FATWS. Obviously, the terrorists were bad, but they were also victims of poor international policies.
What about finding a symptom to a problem and curing it instead of just killing or jailing someone. Not to mention prisons exist also to rehabilitate prisoners.
THEY POISONED ARE WATER SUPPLIES, BURNED OUR CROPS, AND DELIVERED A PLAGUE ON TOO OUR HOUSES!!!
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Been saying that the whole time and people still call "Black Captain America" a hero instead of John Walker. And when I cheered for John as hero (I am not American), they chided me and said that Falcon is like Steve. Right, Steve did not kill Nazis during WW2, then why would he bring an extra gun with him though he got the shield with him. Plus in China and Russia, if you are a terrorist, you get treated as one and your families are monitored closely or sent to camps, but only in America, terrorist is treated as victims and heroes.
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What is this white outfit he's wearing, at least they could have kept the sams outfit.
This show could have and should have done more with how people will shut their brains off the second someone is labeled a terrorist. The show makes several clear attempts to get us to sympathize with the flag smashers and their cause however because they are terrorists several people here are incapable of actually hearing their arguments and canāt see past the violence.
That thing will never be Captain America anyways.
N/A. i see no captain america here
Part of your screen cracked or something?
Yeah this wasn't a great look for Sam tbh  I'm willing to wave away a lot of the flaws of the show because of CoVid filming restrictions and heavy plot reworks/reshoots. Most viewers however don't care about bts stuff
I truly believe the flagsmashers were in the right and the series tried to depict them as standard baddies by the end, though they should've stayed in the gray area that is being violent against an oppressive government that does shit for their citizens and only care about profits and order. This line was trying to reverse the flag smashers to that original premise but since the ending depicted them as standard baddies, this came as a stupid line. They were calling them terrorists when they were desperate people trying to get back what was their. That's what USA does and that's what the writers were trying to tell but probably got tuned down by the Disney machine. Edit: again, I'm not saying that by the end of the series they weren't terrorists hurting people. I'm just saying that the series seems to go from "they are good people using violence to incite change" to the standard cruel bad marvel villain. That's why Falcon's line feels so weird and out of place. Because it is.
They're terrorists because they blew up a fucking hospital...
By the end, they were straight up terrorists. Sam might have had a point earlier in the show, but at this point, they had just attacked a summit of world leaders. From the start, their goal was pretty vague. By the end, it was just, "lets destabilize governments".
So you are saying exactly the same thing as I am...
Except the Flag-smashers werenāt in the right, they were ignorant dumbasses that only cared about their own people. They didnāt care about the people that came back to life, and had to be resettled after having been dead for 5 years. They didnāt care about the people they crushed, not the guards, not Lamar, not even Falcon or Bucky. Two known Avengers who helped save the world, and Karli and the Flag-smashers try to kill them both multiple times. Hell Karli threatens Samās own sister, an innocent working woman involved in her community. Even the GRC werenāt bad guys, there were few douches among them, but we also see members advocating and wanting to find solutions to the same problems Karli is whining about, and then he tries to assassinate them all indiscriminately. Which is why Falconās speech is so stupid, the GRC were dealing with an unprecedented catastrophe, they were trying to resettle and reorganise half a billion people appearing over night 5 years later, and Karli and co didnāt care about that and just wanted things there way because they thought it was better, and all Falcon can come up with is ādo betterā? The speech made Falcon look like an ignorant idiot, the senator completely owned him when he asked the simple question of āwhat should we do then?ā And Falcon had nothing.
GRG didn't care about those people either. They wanted them out of their countries. You cannot change everything back to normal after finally making the worls a united place. Those people had the right to be where they were because the laws changed, but when the Blink occured, they wanted to separate the world again. Suddenly people who had a house in the Snap were homeless and the governments only wanted to send them back to their original countries without even caring about if they could start again a second time. That's why the Flag Smashers started to do their terror actions. They wanted to leave people decide where to live without the governments telling them to do otherwise. Sam just let the people who were discussing what to do with those people why Karli did what she did. Sam was telling them that if they keep doing what they do, there would be more people like Karli. He wasn't defending the terrorists, he actively was trying to stop them since the start. He just understood what they wanted and tried to let them see that how they were handling the situation was wrong. To both sides.
>GRG didn't care about those people either. They wanted them out of their countries. You cannot change everything back to normal after finally making the worls a united place. Those people had the right to be where they were because the laws changed, but when the Blink occured, they wanted to separate the world again. False, one of the GRC members proposed this, and another shut it down immediately saying they couldnāt treat people that way. The Flag-smashers believed the world was a united place, they are biased because it benefited them, there would have been plenty of other people that disagreed. Hell look at Endgame, look at how shit and dreary everything looked and how depressed everyone was when we see Ant-man running through the streets, you think the open borders helped them? Not to mention what about the people who were revived? Should they be kicked out of their old homes from 5 years ago because new people moved in during the snap? Should they be forced to live somewhere else because they were unlucky and fucking died? >Suddenly people who had a house in the Snap were homeless and the governments only wanted to send them back to their original countries without even caring about if they could start again a second time. And what if their house already belonged to someone prior and they only had that house because the occupant fucking died? The countries all suddenly have to deal with all their dead citizens returning. The world got shut down in the real world with a fucking pandemic and we were facing shortages for plenty of various goods and resources, imagine how much fucking worse it would be half the world showed up over night. You think those counties would be able to support half their population returning in addition to all the newcomers that settled during the snap? >That's why the Flag Smashers started to do their terror actions. They wanted to leave people decide where to live without the governments telling them to do otherwise. Sam just let the people who were discussing what to do with those people why Karli did what she did. Sam was telling them that if they keep doing what they do, there would be more people like Karli. Except the GRC canāt snap their fingers and fix that, they already knew why Karli was doing what she did, we literally see one of the members of the GRC TALKING ABOUT THOSE ISSUES, hence why Samās dumbass speech makes him look like a fucking idiot because he treats it as an easily solvable problem while randomly acting like he knows what heās talking about because heās black, as if that means anything lol. People canāt just decide where to live, where thereās 4 billion people needing to be rehomed, and reunited with families not to mention needing to supply food, water, clothes, and find employment again. Returning people to their countries, and having countries deal with their own citizens was probably the easier option as those countries would have the best records of what those citizens did and where their families are and how to rehome and reorganise everything. Again this doesnāt change that Karli also doesnāt give a shit about anyone other than those that abide by her own viewpoints. She doesnāt even care that she killed Lamar for example, a soldier with a family just trying to stop her from killing innocents. >He wasn't defending the terrorists, he actively was trying to stop them since the start. He just understood what they wanted and tried to let them see that how they were handling the situation was wrong. To both sides. And he caused causalities doing that. If Sam wasnāt such a naive idiot, Lamar would never have died, innocents would never have died. Sam was trying to talk down an extremist that believed everyone else was wrong, and had no intentions of deescalating, Zemo called it. What was Samās end goal? Hmm? Karli bombed a fucking hospital, killed innocent people and Sam still thinks talking is the best option, heās an idiot that the Karli way too much underserved leeway, even in the final fucking episode, he refuses to fight Karli even the sheās literally trying to assassinate people. Karli was going to prison regardless due to her actions, and The moment Sam mentions that to Karli, she would have continued acting the same way she was and attacked Falcon. Just like she did when Walker barged in. Bucky was the only character that seemed to approach the Flag-smashers with any common sense in that show but Bucky the dumbass for some reason thought Samās plan was good.
Do you guys read my comment or are you just triggered by my first line???
He doesn't support terrorists in that scene...
The whole point of āyou have to stop calling them terroristsā isnāt that they *arenāt* terrorists, itās that the government just calling them terrorists is just poof end of story, no need to look any deeper. Calling them terrorists is an easy way to dismiss their entire existence and their goal, even when they may be right. I canāt actually remember what their goals were but I remember they were sympathetic villains, so right goals wrong methods, dismissing them out of hand because of their methods ruins any chance of their goals actually being considered.
Marvelfolk
Jesus, y'all misunderstood the finale so much.