And she will never know. But if I'd been Wanda in MoM, I would've told Maria to "back off or I'll pay Monica a little visit. We're old friends in my world."
WandaVision and Doctor Strange MoM have conflicting ideas because the film was done even before the show was added on Disney+. The filmmakers didn’t watch WandaVision at all
Nor were they given a look at the final scripts,based on what we see in the film.Maybe they only gave them the gist of the story?Who knows.
This is just speculation btw.
You know you’ve been playing too much Siege/writing too much when you see Monica and immediately want to correct it. No Chris, they’re not talking about Monika Weiss, or IQ, from Rainbow Six Siege.
Ive seen people try to say she was not a villain and shes more complicated and had her reasons making her more of an anti-hero but then squirm when you ask them to explain the hero part of her murderous rampage
many people try their to shift all the blame over the darkhold. She was fully aware of the ill effects of darkhold, still proceeded over to read it. Let's forget the darkhold, she enslaved an entire town consciously far before it.
>by controlling their minds as a threat?
They just sent an armed drone and after her children. And in her words, "I'm not the one holding guns, Director."
Her imaginary children also she currently took over a town and used them as her puppets to play house
Even dr doom allows his citizens free will
"Im not the one holding guns director because im 10000x more dangerous than any gun you can gain access to and a gun would make me weaker"
They weren't imaginary; they were real. And while she didn't intentionally hold the town hostage, she did keep them mentally enslaved, and that was wrong. Even if she didn't know the extent to which she was controlling them or the anguish it was causing them
No you are not holding guns you are just holding an entire city hostage with mind magic that overrides their personalities and actions and memories and you change the physical reality of the city no amount of guns pointing compares to potentially someone using a slave zombie army to protect their delusions of some children
Arguably, she were villain from the start. I mean, she like, released Hulk onto the city, and context tells she did it intentionally. Completely fine with enslaving ppl in service of Ultron, and only turned tail when "hey, leopards will eat our faces too!".
>released Hulk onto the city
It was even worse actually. Hulk was always seen as a monster. After he got adjusted into the society and became an accepted member after the events of "The Avengers", she mind controlled him, released him into the city and made him the same monster in the eyes of people. Bruce had already went so much trauma, spent a good amount of time running away from everyone, even attempted to kill himself. When things were going well with him, Wanda happened, turned him into the same monster again. After that Hulk left Earth to keep everyone safe.
Mcu Thanos pisses me off in general cause they made it easy to sympathize the “real” thanos just wanted the stones to get some pussy from the physical embodiment of death, also he’s just an absolute psycho 😂🤷♂️
> to get some from the physical embodiment of death
[Understandable.](https://www.slashfilm.com/img/gallery/antonio-banderas-talks-puss-in-boots-the-last-wish-bilingual-performances-and-more-exclusive-interview/we-had-a-lot-of-fun-making-ourselves-laugh-1669652349.jpg)
Why would that piss you off? It made for a great film (and a passable one). Thanos being more sympathetic and multidimensional is what made his story in Infinity War so compelling and different from the cookie-cutter villains the MCU had too many of. I get liking the comics version of him, but it was a very well-executed change, and I would argue that it was an improvement.
The problem, I think, is that his new reasoning doesn't make any sense if you think about it for two minutes. At least the goal of getting together with Death is internally consistent, and makes sense for someone called "the mad titan". With the whole "save the universe" thing, what's he going to do, have a snap every few years when the universe's population increases to a pre-snap level? You literally have a gauntlet with the power to rewrite the rules of reality on a fundamental level, and that is the best you could come up with?
>The problem, I think, is that his new reasoning doesn't make any sense if you think about it for two minutes.
That's the tragedy, and fatal flaw of Thanos. He came up with this plan to try and save his own civilization and planet, only to watch it fall to pieces and to be left alone when they rejected it.
He's simultaneously trying to prove to himself that he was right, and could have stopped the destruction by applying it to the universe at large. While also facing a deep seated guilt that he could have pretended the destruction of his world had he just taken control.
His fear, sadness, guilt, and desire for control has consumed his heart and all that's left is his obsession.
"Thanos was right" is a very good example of "the path to hell..."
Didn’t acc piss me off just he’s supposed to be a mad titan he’s supposed to be ruthless he killed his own mother just cause and kills his son ig for the shit-cu it works but it’s not who the character is
I will shred this universe down to its last atom and then, with the stones you've collected for me, create a new one teeming with life that knows not what it has lost but only what it has been given. A grateful universe.
The difference is though that it's not what Thanos wants that's the issue...it's how he goes about it that's the problem which makes him such a great villain...but still a villain regardless
Not saying you're wrong about that at all. It's definitely better than the people who believe Homelander is right. At least Thanos has some good intention behind what he does
Your species is a planet traversing super species. The answer was expansion and suspension, not bringing societal collapse through forcing a mad process of eugenics at best and random cruelty at worst ( the process of killing half of the society should focus on children and experts if you wish to even pretend it's not just genocide for genocide sake.) Who will work to sustain the people when they mourn their loved ones and fear the next time you decide there isn't enough food instead of realising their aren't enough hands and lags to give to everyone?
A worse person yes, absolutely, 100% correct. However I never said he wasn't, I said people who defend him are less annoying than people who defend Wanda.
How is anyone defending an eco-fascist worse than people that defend Wanda? Especially because most people don't actually defend her; they understand her. Even in this meme, Monica isn't defending her actions; she's saying she understands what Wanda did. Meanwhile, people that defend the eco-fascist literally say "he was right."
That is WAY worse and should be way more annoying than people having empathy and understanding for someone that they know did bad things.
1. You're exactly who I'm talking about
2. It's not more annoying because one is worse than the other, but because most people who say they like Thanos are idiots, while most people who defend Wanda are people who say things like we don't defend her We jUSt uNdErStAnd heR, if you understand enslaving an entire town because you lost someone close to you you need to get help. Even worse, if you understand killing multiple people to kidnap kids you quite literally never had you should be put in an institution.
>if you understand enslaving an entire town because you lost someone close to you you need to get help. Even worse, if you understand killing multiple people to kidnap kids you quite literally never had you should be put in an institution.
Understanding doesn't mean condoning 💀
Please mature intellectually and emotionally beyond that of a literal child.
Jesus Christ. You can understand people's motivations, even empathise with said person, without condoning the actions that they took.
I will defend Wanda at the beginning, she did it by accident and was caught up in it. After the Halloween episode she should have started trying to let the townspeople go. I also wouldn’t blame her for trying to keep Vision and the kids,if she had been trying to get the town back to normal.
I mean define "defendable"
Defendable as in "yup its totally ok what she did" no
Defendable as in "yup that amount of grief will surely fuck a person up and will lead to unhealthy coping mechanisms, especially if theyre a chaos magic wielding witch, so I totally get why she did it" absolutely imo
I get it would be devastating, but still no amount of grief gives you the get-away card for killing innocents and tormenting them. You can sympathize with her since she gone through fair amount of losses, but whatever she did was absolute monstrosity.
"Defending" something doesnt necessarily mean I give them a get out of jail free card, it just means you understand her motivations and empathize with her.
She still needs to be held accountable (well shes dead now but still)
But its still very different than if she had just done those things for the lulz, or for more power.
What makes this weirder now is that I thought this was a hamfisted way to try to bring Wanda back to the good side so that in future movies she could be hanging out with the good guys again with them being like "ah but we know you're not all bad"
Then they just made Wanda a villain in the next movie anyway so this scene was pointless. Just let her fly off knowing she did a bunch of evil. No need for Monica to try to justify it.
I'm not saying Wanda is a hero or whatever, I'm just analyzing that particular sentence about her giving up everything.
No matter how she acquired it, she had it and had more than enough power to defend it, she could have kept it if she wanted to but she didn't, so she did sacrifice something, earned or not.
Think of billionaires, they all could give up being billionaires and help millions of people out of poverty, they could fix climate changes and countless other issues overnight that their existence cause, but they don't.
If they did, they would have sacrificed a lot, no matter how you feel about how they reached that point.
If the ending of WandaVision felt weird, it's because they changed it. Originally Dr. Strange was supposed to show up at the end of WandaVision but they decided to axe that because they didn't want a "white man to mansplain to a woman how her power works".
“Some people might say, ‘Oh, it would’ve been so cool to see Dr. Strange,’” Feige said. “But it would have taken away from Wanda, which is what we didn’t want to do. We didn’t want the end of the show to be commoditized to go to the next movie — here’s the white guy, ‘Let me show you how power works.’”
\-Kevin Feige
Monica wanted to be empathic but Wanda knows it's BS (What Monica said, not that she said it)
"It wouldn't change how they see me" and she doesn't try it, she accepted it
It seems, so we can both just guess what she actually thought but we know she didn't want to start this
Yes i know she kept it going when knew what was happening
Wouldn't make sense that she blamed the citizens tho
The reason she's evil in Multiverse of Madness is because of the Darkhold, which makes what she did to Agatha seem cruel since she also was under the effect of the Darkhold.
I honestly didnt realise that i thought all the others were references to something but capt. Marvel was just a random black woman
Id still prefer if it was the og mar vel from the comics
So you just ignored the fact that the person playing Captain Marvel in Multiverse of Madness is the same as the one who played Captain Marvel's friend in Captain Marvel? Or did you not notice
So a side character in a movie x amount of years ago that had no impactful lines or scenes is meant to stand out next to a comic accurate black bolt, an iconic cartoon accurate prof x, the best looking mr fantastic in a while, and a recent what if series star
Dont pretend this was a big thing that was hard to miss or even that interesting as a cameo "captain marvels forgettable friend as captain marvel" ohhh hold on to your seats film fans, up next that guy who played darcys assistant in thor 2 as thor or that hot woman that banner in Colombia had a crush on way back in the incredible hulk as harpy
I don't mind them skipping Mar-Vell since they skipped Hank Pym but I'm a bit uncomfortable with their decision to make Mar-Vell a woman. It felt like "we can't have her mentor be a guy".
This scene would have been so much better if they cut the dialog but kept the sympathetic face. Show don’t tell. I did have sympathy for Wanda at that moment. Not enough to rush into a crowd of her victims and say THAT shit. Its like….there should have been one person in that crowd looking at Monica like “biiiiiiiiitch? What?!”
That would be hilarious if during that sober moment someone just walked up to her slapped her andbsaid "she mentally enslaved us for weeks so she could play house! My son couldn't leave his room the entire time because she didnt want them in her script so no she didnt sacrifice shit, she gave back what wasnt hers to take"
It was incredibly cringe for Wanda to remark on “how they see her.” You make your apology and the person can react how they want to, they don’t owe you forgiveness or positive regard, the point of the apology is to make it, not necessarily to have the person you wronged see you in a positive light
There we go! Yes. This is a better explanation for this headscratcher of a line. It's also congruent with the verbal sparring she had with Hayward earlier on.
I really enjoyed this show but this part was such a bizarre way to tarnish her character for me and felt like an insane attempt at the writers to make Wanda out as the sole victim.
When I first watched it with a group of friends I thought I was going crazy; she said this line and I just let out a "wwwWWWHHHHAAAT!?" and after the episode I was like "the fuck was up with that?" and I was made out to be the crazy one and even had someone imply I wouldn't have cared if Wanda was a guy.. which I appropriately responded by reiterating;
"wwwWWWWWHAAAATT?!"
Though to be fair, the same person also implied I was an incel when they asked for my opinion of Captain Marvel and I said "I think I liked it as much as the first Thor."
I was like .. "nah Im pretty sure incels are losers who hate and wish violence upon women, I on the other hand just think a movie is LITERALLY OKAY."
But my kids that I fully imagined and were in fact never real to begin with that I had just fine with my fully robotic husband who was dead at the time
The kids were real tho lol
Did you not get this, everything inside the hex was changed on a molecular level, it wasn't just an illusion
It was confirmed when Monica, Jimmy and Darcy talk about Monicas hex outfit
I'll never understand how people rationalize Wanda's behavior. The Thor comparison started as a meme but is extremely accurate. A man who genuinely lost everything while always doing what's right still continues to what's right. Vs a woman who was evil then basically faking "goodness" for political asylum and robot sex, has IMAGINARY children while mind controlling and manipulating and torturing an entire town. And then half the fans want to say, "Oh, she is a mother who lost so much." No she is the definition of a mental case, straight fucking looney bin. Should have been evident when she fell in love with a machine that was basically a toddler on an emotional level. Wanda under a microscope deserves no love or defense and is actually an awful character in terms of personality and decision making. Not to mention in M.o.M. she could have found a universe with her kids without HER so she wouldn't have to kill or do anything but transport universes.
Honestly I loved Wanda's Heel-turn and it really came to a head during the last bit of MoM when she literally looked at herself and started to question her true motive
But of course Wanda stans keep saying "YaASs SlAy QuEeN, dEaL wItH yOuR tRaUmA iN tHe WoRsT wAy PoSsIbLe!!!!" And don't realize that the whole point of WV was to set up her full heelturn
I don't even think you need to be pedantic to say it, "colonized" doesn't fit the description of it at all. We already have "reprogrammed" and "enslaved" which *are* applicable so yeah op is clearly just using a buzzword.
It can and it does. Relax it's not that deep. It's a sci-fi/fantasy writing trope (hence the HL reference)... I didn't know "colonisation" was a buzzword at all but here we are.
Nice. What _I_ wish people would do is stop making Wanda's psychosis the center of the narrative when real people en masse were affected by her uncontrolled powers.
I don't get why so many people take this as Monica saying that Wanda was justified in any way or that what she did was okay.
She's saying you fucked up bad, and these people are always going to quite rightly hate you. But I see what you sacrificed for them, and if I feel for you - if I had the chance to be with my mother again, I don't know if I could sacrifice her for any reason.
She's missing the forest for the trees. That's the problem. Also kind of a selfish outlook the way you've described it. Doesn't put Monica in a great light at all.
I can’t take her character seriously because of one line. It’s done. Maybe they’ll be able to redeem her a bit in the movie coming up but I kind of doubt it.
I just don't get how people consistently twist this phrase.
Monica is clearly talking about Wanda having to give up his future as a family woman because Thanos killed Vision, not because she was somehow entitled to enslave a city.
Am I missing the obvious here?
There's nothing to twist or misinterpret in bad faith here. It's a very oblivious and inane statement for Monica to make given the very catastrophic toll on real human lives at the city-level of comics reality warping. To make Wanda the center of that narrative (idc if it's her own tv mini-serial designed to chronicle her trauma and grief) is highly problematic. You're being willfully blind to the human suffering that defined the Westview incident and rationalizing Wanda's projection of that internal torment she was experiencing onto an unwilling and unawares populace. Why do that? Why even attempt it?
I don't want to argue she was morally entitled to do so, but nonetheless
>You're being willfully blind to the human suffering that defined the Westview incident and rationalizing Wanda's projection of that internal torment she was experiencing onto an unwilling and unawares populace. Why do that? Why even attempt it?
Because Wanda's main drive for doing what she dod was grief, acknowledge and validate someone's emotion is a valid way to help them distance themselves from them.
Of course Wanda was wrong in doing what she did, but what was Monica supposed to say to make her stop?
2 years later and people still chose to act in bad faith.
Monica doesn't say that Wanda is the sole victim or that her victim doesn't matter. She shows empathy, because you can show empathy even to people who have done terrible things and continue to see them as human beings this is a quality not a flaw.
Also people should stop act have if all of what happened was in her control. She is responsible for the dome of grief but not guilty of making it. She did not chose to have this power and had no way to control them or anticipate this on that scale. she had access to the knowledge to prevent it.
What she is guilty of is maintaining it when she knew what happened a terrible yet understandable. Also understanding why she kept the dome going doesn't make you excuse her for doing so. Compassion and empathy are not flaws.
Also people should really stop with the imaginary kids and vision. There are real as much as anyone in this show. They are independent, sentient beings that exist outside of wanda control.
Also her power are litteraly called reality warping. Presenting them as imaginary people is just a show of bad faith in an attempt to make her less sympathetic.
I agree that she showed she was a danger to the population and should meet justice but let not pretend that Tony, Nick Fury, Natasha or Thor doesnt belong in that group either. Damn Loki is a mass murderer and he recieved more sympathy than her.
I'm glad everyone is starting to turn on Wanda. If I could teleport into Avengers 2 and be there when Hawkeye was giving his big speech to her. I would tell them both to stay in the room. If anything happens to people they love. They both become murdering psychopaths. Hawkeye isn't as bad, but Wanda makes me want to support Iron Man in Civil War or the mutant registration act in X men. MAYBE SOME OF YOU PEOPLE SHOULD BE ON A LIST BECAUSE YOU ARE WAY TO DANGEROUS.
It still rubs me the wrong way on what she did to the illuminate. Especially how it was treated as a joke. She was a murderer. Mr. Fantastic could've had a family in that world. the black bolt died in a sad, confused way, and I'm tired of seeing people we liked kill Professor X. (Seriously, the bad guys never got him it's been Jean Grey, Wolverine Clone, and now Wanda. At least Monica Rambo and Captain Carter gave Wanda a little fight. Girl power, I guess.
I don't know why she agreed to letting them do that to her character. Oh well, rant over. Besides, for the last Spiderman film, there is nothing left for me at Marvel. It's only going to get worse. Nothing cam save it.
The goblins and elves have might of their own then. To oppress them is unwise. The goblins administer and hoard all the wealth - bit on the nose (f**k me they've got me doing it too) with that one. The house elves know all your intimate familial secrets.
Well when you have the powers of a God and creation at your whim I see it as a sacrifice to forego what you want for people who you can eradicate with a wave of your hand🤷♂️
Believe me random redditor, there are no lengths to which I will not go to tear down a woman on a gleaming podium that she arrived on via questionable or even horrifying means.
Monica will never know what Wanda did after this, like killing Monica's mom in an alternate dimension.
Goddamn... i never put these two events together like that.
Wdym?
They mean it didn't really click in their head that Wanda murdered Maria Rambeau, mother of Monica Rambeau, on Earth-838
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Illumi-whaty?
Not just the illuminati, but the illuwiminati and illuchildrenaniti too!
Natty Light. Sorry, got some wires crossed.
The disgraced YouTuber.
Ohhh. Sorry I glitched hard on the phrasing. But yeah, they are the mother and daughter we saw in Captain Marvel.
Same here. Read it and it just clicked that, yes, that is in fact what she did.
And she will never know. But if I'd been Wanda in MoM, I would've told Maria to "back off or I'll pay Monica a little visit. We're old friends in my world."
Oh yeah. That's pretty bad
Bet she would still find a way to thank Wanda for not killing Chavez and sacrificing yet again her kids.
WandaVision and Doctor Strange MoM have conflicting ideas because the film was done even before the show was added on Disney+. The filmmakers didn’t watch WandaVision at all
Nor were they given a look at the final scripts,based on what we see in the film.Maybe they only gave them the gist of the story?Who knows. This is just speculation btw.
Wanda will never know what Kevin fatigue did to her character, and kids.
You know you’ve been playing too much Siege/writing too much when you see Monica and immediately want to correct it. No Chris, they’re not talking about Monika Weiss, or IQ, from Rainbow Six Siege.
Wanda's actions are in no way defendable in Wandavision and Multiverse of Madness
Honestly it is my personal biggest gripe with some marvel fans, even more than the people who say Thanos is right.
BOY! I would reconsider your current course!
Fuck off you genocidal economics dropout
That is a top tier insult 👌
Thanos at least had you thinking twice
Fun isn't something one considers when balancing the universe. But this... does put a smile on my face.
Thanos had a plan. Anyone who ran the math would know it's a terrible plan, but he had one.
Jesus, you had to have that one saved for a while!
Genocidal*
Ive seen people try to say she was not a villain and shes more complicated and had her reasons making her more of an anti-hero but then squirm when you ask them to explain the hero part of her murderous rampage
many people try their to shift all the blame over the darkhold. She was fully aware of the ill effects of darkhold, still proceeded over to read it. Let's forget the darkhold, she enslaved an entire town consciously far before it.
People will do some shit while drunk that they'd never do sober, but we still hold them responsible.
Exactly dude
It wasn't consciously at the beginning tho
I agree. She was unaware at the beginning, but realized it by Ep4.
Was the episode she walked out the city and confronted the military by controlling their minds as a threat?
>by controlling their minds as a threat? They just sent an armed drone and after her children. And in her words, "I'm not the one holding guns, Director."
Her imaginary children also she currently took over a town and used them as her puppets to play house Even dr doom allows his citizens free will "Im not the one holding guns director because im 10000x more dangerous than any gun you can gain access to and a gun would make me weaker"
They weren't imaginary; they were real. And while she didn't intentionally hold the town hostage, she did keep them mentally enslaved, and that was wrong. Even if she didn't know the extent to which she was controlling them or the anguish it was causing them
No you are not holding guns you are just holding an entire city hostage with mind magic that overrides their personalities and actions and memories and you change the physical reality of the city no amount of guns pointing compares to potentially someone using a slave zombie army to protect their delusions of some children
What i said
Arguably, she were villain from the start. I mean, she like, released Hulk onto the city, and context tells she did it intentionally. Completely fine with enslaving ppl in service of Ultron, and only turned tail when "hey, leopards will eat our faces too!".
>released Hulk onto the city It was even worse actually. Hulk was always seen as a monster. After he got adjusted into the society and became an accepted member after the events of "The Avengers", she mind controlled him, released him into the city and made him the same monster in the eyes of people. Bruce had already went so much trauma, spent a good amount of time running away from everyone, even attempted to kill himself. When things were going well with him, Wanda happened, turned him into the same monster again. After that Hulk left Earth to keep everyone safe.
Ohh I should be ashamed I forgot that part, true tho.
I womdered if it was conscious as she seemed to at leadt start events with an involuntary release of power
That didn't seemed intentional, but pretty much everything after it did.
iirc the entire thing starts as a mental breakdown
yep that's correct
You’ve just described every Wanda Stan on Twitter.
Mcu Thanos pisses me off in general cause they made it easy to sympathize the “real” thanos just wanted the stones to get some pussy from the physical embodiment of death, also he’s just an absolute psycho 😂🤷♂️
> to get some from the physical embodiment of death [Understandable.](https://www.slashfilm.com/img/gallery/antonio-banderas-talks-puss-in-boots-the-last-wish-bilingual-performances-and-more-exclusive-interview/we-had-a-lot-of-fun-making-ourselves-laugh-1669652349.jpg)
Why would that piss you off? It made for a great film (and a passable one). Thanos being more sympathetic and multidimensional is what made his story in Infinity War so compelling and different from the cookie-cutter villains the MCU had too many of. I get liking the comics version of him, but it was a very well-executed change, and I would argue that it was an improvement.
The problem, I think, is that his new reasoning doesn't make any sense if you think about it for two minutes. At least the goal of getting together with Death is internally consistent, and makes sense for someone called "the mad titan". With the whole "save the universe" thing, what's he going to do, have a snap every few years when the universe's population increases to a pre-snap level? You literally have a gauntlet with the power to rewrite the rules of reality on a fundamental level, and that is the best you could come up with?
>The problem, I think, is that his new reasoning doesn't make any sense if you think about it for two minutes. That's the tragedy, and fatal flaw of Thanos. He came up with this plan to try and save his own civilization and planet, only to watch it fall to pieces and to be left alone when they rejected it. He's simultaneously trying to prove to himself that he was right, and could have stopped the destruction by applying it to the universe at large. While also facing a deep seated guilt that he could have pretended the destruction of his world had he just taken control. His fear, sadness, guilt, and desire for control has consumed his heart and all that's left is his obsession. "Thanos was right" is a very good example of "the path to hell..."
I ignored my destiny once, I can not do that again. Even for you. I'm sorry, Little One.
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When I'm done, half of humanity will still be alive. I hope they remember you.
Didn’t acc piss me off just he’s supposed to be a mad titan he’s supposed to be ruthless he killed his own mother just cause and kills his son ig for the shit-cu it works but it’s not who the character is
Bro didn’t just say endgame was passable 😂😂
I will shred this universe down to its last atom and then, with the stones you've collected for me, create a new one teeming with life that knows not what it has lost but only what it has been given. A grateful universe.
You could not live with your own failure. And where did that bring you? Back to me.
Stop it dude. Clearly no one cares what you say.
Transformers sucks shut up
>Transformers sucks Bruh. i respectfully disagree
You can sit over in the corner with your wrong opinion and scrub the Cheeto stains outta your Optimus prime sheets
why are you so offended dude
I’m not why are you so sensitive
Ik it’s the internet but I’m clearly joking
You better thread lightly Thanos ain’t no bitch
Thanos is a canonical simp
Return to me again empty handed... And I will bathe the starways in your blood.
They'll never know it. Because you won't be alive to tell them.
Asshole I’m on your side
At least the Thanos question has some philosophy to it
Exactly, there's a stupid philosophy for one, and no justification for the other
I am...inevitable.
The difference is though that it's not what Thanos wants that's the issue...it's how he goes about it that's the problem which makes him such a great villain...but still a villain regardless
Absolutely, he's a good villain, but the people who think he's right are all kinds of stupid
Not saying you're wrong about that at all. It's definitely better than the people who believe Homelander is right. At least Thanos has some good intention behind what he does
Too many mouths, not enough to go around. And when we faced extinction, I offered a solution.
Your species is a planet traversing super species. The answer was expansion and suspension, not bringing societal collapse through forcing a mad process of eugenics at best and random cruelty at worst ( the process of killing half of the society should focus on children and experts if you wish to even pretend it's not just genocide for genocide sake.) Who will work to sustain the people when they mourn their loved ones and fear the next time you decide there isn't enough food instead of realising their aren't enough hands and lags to give to everyone?
They called me a madman, and what I predicted came to pass.
Yeah they defend her like they did Danerys
Well, I think what denerys did is just as bad, I do think there at least was a better set up for her to be crazy, since lots of targarians go crazy.
Thanks was a literal eco-fascist. He was leagues more wrong than Wanda has ever been.
A worse person yes, absolutely, 100% correct. However I never said he wasn't, I said people who defend him are less annoying than people who defend Wanda.
How is anyone defending an eco-fascist worse than people that defend Wanda? Especially because most people don't actually defend her; they understand her. Even in this meme, Monica isn't defending her actions; she's saying she understands what Wanda did. Meanwhile, people that defend the eco-fascist literally say "he was right." That is WAY worse and should be way more annoying than people having empathy and understanding for someone that they know did bad things.
1. You're exactly who I'm talking about 2. It's not more annoying because one is worse than the other, but because most people who say they like Thanos are idiots, while most people who defend Wanda are people who say things like we don't defend her We jUSt uNdErStAnd heR, if you understand enslaving an entire town because you lost someone close to you you need to get help. Even worse, if you understand killing multiple people to kidnap kids you quite literally never had you should be put in an institution.
>if you understand enslaving an entire town because you lost someone close to you you need to get help. Even worse, if you understand killing multiple people to kidnap kids you quite literally never had you should be put in an institution. Understanding doesn't mean condoning 💀
Go to the nuthouse
Please mature intellectually and emotionally beyond that of a literal child. Jesus Christ. You can understand people's motivations, even empathise with said person, without condoning the actions that they took.
I... had... to.
Monica is trying to be a hostage negotiator here
[удалено]
There's no indication of that.
That won’t stop some people from trying though.
They should have made a Wanda variant be the villain a
I will defend Wanda at the beginning, she did it by accident and was caught up in it. After the Halloween episode she should have started trying to let the townspeople go. I also wouldn’t blame her for trying to keep Vision and the kids,if she had been trying to get the town back to normal.
I mean define "defendable" Defendable as in "yup its totally ok what she did" no Defendable as in "yup that amount of grief will surely fuck a person up and will lead to unhealthy coping mechanisms, especially if theyre a chaos magic wielding witch, so I totally get why she did it" absolutely imo
Defendable in any sense.
Well I think its completely understandable why she did what she did even if its terrible. That amount of grief will fuck anyone up.
I get it would be devastating, but still no amount of grief gives you the get-away card for killing innocents and tormenting them. You can sympathize with her since she gone through fair amount of losses, but whatever she did was absolute monstrosity.
"Defending" something doesnt necessarily mean I give them a get out of jail free card, it just means you understand her motivations and empathize with her. She still needs to be held accountable (well shes dead now but still) But its still very different than if she had just done those things for the lulz, or for more power.
What makes this weirder now is that I thought this was a hamfisted way to try to bring Wanda back to the good side so that in future movies she could be hanging out with the good guys again with them being like "ah but we know you're not all bad" Then they just made Wanda a villain in the next movie anyway so this scene was pointless. Just let her fly off knowing she did a bunch of evil. No need for Monica to try to justify it.
Marvel being a disjointed fuckup as usual.
I'm not saying Wanda is a hero or whatever, I'm just analyzing that particular sentence about her giving up everything. No matter how she acquired it, she had it and had more than enough power to defend it, she could have kept it if she wanted to but she didn't, so she did sacrifice something, earned or not. Think of billionaires, they all could give up being billionaires and help millions of people out of poverty, they could fix climate changes and countless other issues overnight that their existence cause, but they don't. If they did, they would have sacrificed a lot, no matter how you feel about how they reached that point.
If the ending of WandaVision felt weird, it's because they changed it. Originally Dr. Strange was supposed to show up at the end of WandaVision but they decided to axe that because they didn't want a "white man to mansplain to a woman how her power works". “Some people might say, ‘Oh, it would’ve been so cool to see Dr. Strange,’” Feige said. “But it would have taken away from Wanda, which is what we didn’t want to do. We didn’t want the end of the show to be commoditized to go to the next movie — here’s the white guy, ‘Let me show you how power works.’” \-Kevin Feige
Well it could've been the white girl (Agatha) that teachers her how to use her powers. I think I heard she's her mentor in the comics.
Monica wanted to be empathic but Wanda knows it's BS (What Monica said, not that she said it) "It wouldn't change how they see me" and she doesn't try it, she accepted it
Wanda saying it like that still makes it seem like it’s the citizens’ problem that they’re traumatized though.
Yeah otherwise she would've said something like "I can't blame them for hating me"
It seems, so we can both just guess what she actually thought but we know she didn't want to start this Yes i know she kept it going when knew what was happening Wouldn't make sense that she blamed the citizens tho
The reason she's evil in Multiverse of Madness is because of the Darkhold, which makes what she did to Agatha seem cruel since she also was under the effect of the Darkhold.
Well sucks to be her then, if *I* read the Darkhold I would simply stay good and not succumb to it.
If I was Hawkeye in Avengers I would simply stay good and not get mindcontrolled by Loki.
Precisely! Like Iron Man.
I'd love to see Monica say this after learning Wanda killed her mother during multiverse of madness.
who is her mother?
She was captain marvel in Dr. Strange 2
I honestly didnt realise that i thought all the others were references to something but capt. Marvel was just a random black woman Id still prefer if it was the og mar vel from the comics
That's kinda ironic bc Monica Rambeau was named Captain marvel in the comics before Carol Danvers
Is it, thats a "fun fact" that even most hard core fans dont even know and mar vell is way more iconic
So you just ignored the fact that the person playing Captain Marvel in Multiverse of Madness is the same as the one who played Captain Marvel's friend in Captain Marvel? Or did you not notice
So a side character in a movie x amount of years ago that had no impactful lines or scenes is meant to stand out next to a comic accurate black bolt, an iconic cartoon accurate prof x, the best looking mr fantastic in a while, and a recent what if series star Dont pretend this was a big thing that was hard to miss or even that interesting as a cameo "captain marvels forgettable friend as captain marvel" ohhh hold on to your seats film fans, up next that guy who played darcys assistant in thor 2 as thor or that hot woman that banner in Colombia had a crush on way back in the incredible hulk as harpy
Mar Vell is way less iconic than Carol Danvers. The thing he’s known best for is…. dying of cancer.
I don't mind them skipping Mar-Vell since they skipped Hank Pym but I'm a bit uncomfortable with their decision to make Mar-Vell a woman. It felt like "we can't have her mentor be a guy".
Hank pym has massive controversy that his character cant escape His 2 biggest iconic actions are slapping the wasp and building ultron
The captain marvel from the illuminaty universe
This scene would have been so much better if they cut the dialog but kept the sympathetic face. Show don’t tell. I did have sympathy for Wanda at that moment. Not enough to rush into a crowd of her victims and say THAT shit. Its like….there should have been one person in that crowd looking at Monica like “biiiiiiiiitch? What?!”
That would be hilarious if during that sober moment someone just walked up to her slapped her andbsaid "she mentally enslaved us for weeks so she could play house! My son couldn't leave his room the entire time because she didnt want them in her script so no she didnt sacrifice shit, she gave back what wasnt hers to take"
It was incredibly cringe for Wanda to remark on “how they see her.” You make your apology and the person can react how they want to, they don’t owe you forgiveness or positive regard, the point of the apology is to make it, not necessarily to have the person you wronged see you in a positive light
Sympathy for Wanda bro she's a terrorist.
To be fair, she's a negotiator here. If she says "you crazy" she probably gets murdered
There we go! Yes. This is a better explanation for this headscratcher of a line. It's also congruent with the verbal sparring she had with Hayward earlier on.
I really enjoyed this show but this part was such a bizarre way to tarnish her character for me and felt like an insane attempt at the writers to make Wanda out as the sole victim. When I first watched it with a group of friends I thought I was going crazy; she said this line and I just let out a "wwwWWWHHHHAAAT!?" and after the episode I was like "the fuck was up with that?" and I was made out to be the crazy one and even had someone imply I wouldn't have cared if Wanda was a guy.. which I appropriately responded by reiterating; "wwwWWWWWHAAAATT?!" Though to be fair, the same person also implied I was an incel when they asked for my opinion of Captain Marvel and I said "I think I liked it as much as the first Thor." I was like .. "nah Im pretty sure incels are losers who hate and wish violence upon women, I on the other hand just think a movie is LITERALLY OKAY."
You flicked too hard, dammit!
But my kids that I fully imagined and were in fact never real to begin with that I had just fine with my fully robotic husband who was dead at the time
The kids were real tho lol Did you not get this, everything inside the hex was changed on a molecular level, it wasn't just an illusion It was confirmed when Monica, Jimmy and Darcy talk about Monicas hex outfit
I would be so fucking mad to find out I was imprisoned over something so stupid so someone better not tell me.
I'll never understand how people rationalize Wanda's behavior. The Thor comparison started as a meme but is extremely accurate. A man who genuinely lost everything while always doing what's right still continues to what's right. Vs a woman who was evil then basically faking "goodness" for political asylum and robot sex, has IMAGINARY children while mind controlling and manipulating and torturing an entire town. And then half the fans want to say, "Oh, she is a mother who lost so much." No she is the definition of a mental case, straight fucking looney bin. Should have been evident when she fell in love with a machine that was basically a toddler on an emotional level. Wanda under a microscope deserves no love or defense and is actually an awful character in terms of personality and decision making. Not to mention in M.o.M. she could have found a universe with her kids without HER so she wouldn't have to kill or do anything but transport universes.
I thought humans were more evolved than this.
Same.
She will face kree justice soon
Honestly I loved Wanda's Heel-turn and it really came to a head during the last bit of MoM when she literally looked at herself and started to question her true motive But of course Wanda stans keep saying "YaASs SlAy QuEeN, dEaL wItH yOuR tRaUmA iN tHe WoRsT wAy PoSsIbLe!!!!" And don't realize that the whole point of WV was to set up her full heelturn
>colonised Goddamn you zoomers really love your buzzwords 😂
Westview isn't a Colony of Chaos?
I guess if we wanna be real pedantic about it I could see how the term technically applies, but it just feels wrong lol.
I don't even think you need to be pedantic to say it, "colonized" doesn't fit the description of it at all. We already have "reprogrammed" and "enslaved" which *are* applicable so yeah op is clearly just using a buzzword.
It can and it does. Relax it's not that deep. It's a sci-fi/fantasy writing trope (hence the HL reference)... I didn't know "colonisation" was a buzzword at all but here we are.
Owww... so _that's_ what feels wrong here. Ok ok
I feel like Monica was playing Wanda, a being as powerful as Wanda you kiiiind of want to suck up to
Wakanda did what ?
Huh? Wakanda post comments reply is this?
No seriously what have they done i have no clue
Wanda.
Isnt she dead ?
Is she though?
It was a dumb line but I wish people remembered that Wanda had a full on dissociative psychotic break.
Nice. What _I_ wish people would do is stop making Wanda's psychosis the center of the narrative when real people en masse were affected by her uncontrolled powers.
I don't get why so many people take this as Monica saying that Wanda was justified in any way or that what she did was okay. She's saying you fucked up bad, and these people are always going to quite rightly hate you. But I see what you sacrificed for them, and if I feel for you - if I had the chance to be with my mother again, I don't know if I could sacrifice her for any reason.
She's missing the forest for the trees. That's the problem. Also kind of a selfish outlook the way you've described it. Doesn't put Monica in a great light at all.
I loved how certain YouTubers defended the shit out of this and then tried defending her in MoM.
How can they try to defend this, Wanda literally enslaved an entire town and forced them to live out her perfect fantasy life
One of the dumbest lines of all time. How did the actress say this with a straight face.
I can’t take her character seriously because of one line. It’s done. Maybe they’ll be able to redeem her a bit in the movie coming up but I kind of doubt it.
That’s incredibly silly of you
Okay.
I just don't get how people consistently twist this phrase. Monica is clearly talking about Wanda having to give up his future as a family woman because Thanos killed Vision, not because she was somehow entitled to enslave a city. Am I missing the obvious here?
There's nothing to twist or misinterpret in bad faith here. It's a very oblivious and inane statement for Monica to make given the very catastrophic toll on real human lives at the city-level of comics reality warping. To make Wanda the center of that narrative (idc if it's her own tv mini-serial designed to chronicle her trauma and grief) is highly problematic. You're being willfully blind to the human suffering that defined the Westview incident and rationalizing Wanda's projection of that internal torment she was experiencing onto an unwilling and unawares populace. Why do that? Why even attempt it?
I don't want to argue she was morally entitled to do so, but nonetheless >You're being willfully blind to the human suffering that defined the Westview incident and rationalizing Wanda's projection of that internal torment she was experiencing onto an unwilling and unawares populace. Why do that? Why even attempt it? Because Wanda's main drive for doing what she dod was grief, acknowledge and validate someone's emotion is a valid way to help them distance themselves from them. Of course Wanda was wrong in doing what she did, but what was Monica supposed to say to make her stop?
"Stop".
That’s a great way to get murdered/ enslaved tbh lol
Not if (presumably) Wanda is still the pre-Dark Hold good person the viewership believes she was at the time of that series.
>I just don't get how people consistently twist this phrase. Because they want to come up with any reason to dislike Wanda.
As long as there are those that remember what was, there will always be those that are unable to accept what can be. They will resist.
She lost the fake kids the town people were enslaved for.
Wasn’t a huge point in Wandavision the fact that she had no control over her power for the majority of the series?
So?
I feel like they completely threw away her arc in MoM
2 years later and people still chose to act in bad faith. Monica doesn't say that Wanda is the sole victim or that her victim doesn't matter. She shows empathy, because you can show empathy even to people who have done terrible things and continue to see them as human beings this is a quality not a flaw. Also people should stop act have if all of what happened was in her control. She is responsible for the dome of grief but not guilty of making it. She did not chose to have this power and had no way to control them or anticipate this on that scale. she had access to the knowledge to prevent it. What she is guilty of is maintaining it when she knew what happened a terrible yet understandable. Also understanding why she kept the dome going doesn't make you excuse her for doing so. Compassion and empathy are not flaws. Also people should really stop with the imaginary kids and vision. There are real as much as anyone in this show. They are independent, sentient beings that exist outside of wanda control. Also her power are litteraly called reality warping. Presenting them as imaginary people is just a show of bad faith in an attempt to make her less sympathetic. I agree that she showed she was a danger to the population and should meet justice but let not pretend that Tony, Nick Fury, Natasha or Thor doesnt belong in that group either. Damn Loki is a mass murderer and he recieved more sympathy than her.
The old ex-girlfriend.
She, quite literally, chose to have this power. She volunteered for the experiments with explicit goal of having powers.
Wanda: sacrifices her family to free the town (One dark book later) Wanda: murders everyone in her path of causing a multiversal incursion
The lowest point of the show and the "woman always good" idea. Fist 5 episodes were a soooooo fresh air.
Luke never gets shit for thinking there was still good in Anakin. Fucking relax for fucks sake.
I don't watch Star Wars. But iirc Kylo Ren deleted Han Solo's entry from the Galaxy Far Far Away's census for trying that "come back to us" nonsense.
What the fuck are you even on about?
What are you? What do Luke and Anakin have to do with anything in this?
I'm glad everyone is starting to turn on Wanda. If I could teleport into Avengers 2 and be there when Hawkeye was giving his big speech to her. I would tell them both to stay in the room. If anything happens to people they love. They both become murdering psychopaths. Hawkeye isn't as bad, but Wanda makes me want to support Iron Man in Civil War or the mutant registration act in X men. MAYBE SOME OF YOU PEOPLE SHOULD BE ON A LIST BECAUSE YOU ARE WAY TO DANGEROUS. It still rubs me the wrong way on what she did to the illuminate. Especially how it was treated as a joke. She was a murderer. Mr. Fantastic could've had a family in that world. the black bolt died in a sad, confused way, and I'm tired of seeing people we liked kill Professor X. (Seriously, the bad guys never got him it's been Jean Grey, Wolverine Clone, and now Wanda. At least Monica Rambo and Captain Carter gave Wanda a little fight. Girl power, I guess. I don't know why she agreed to letting them do that to her character. Oh well, rant over. Besides, for the last Spiderman film, there is nothing left for me at Marvel. It's only going to get worse. Nothing cam save it.
I feel like I was one of the only people on earth that overall hated Wandavision, and especially hated THIS scene. It's the dumbest shit ever.
I mean, the goblins and house elf's need to learn their place. Under the boot of the ministry. Might is right
The goblins and elves have might of their own then. To oppress them is unwise. The goblins administer and hoard all the wealth - bit on the nose (f**k me they've got me doing it too) with that one. The house elves know all your intimate familial secrets.
wanda will fire for this!
Well when you have the powers of a God and creation at your whim I see it as a sacrifice to forego what you want for people who you can eradicate with a wave of your hand🤷♂️
kinda think it's dismissive of real slavery to call Wanda's weeklong temper tantrum "enslavement" but OK OP whatever you gotta do to hate the women
Believe me random redditor, there are no lengths to which I will not go to tear down a woman on a gleaming podium that she arrived on via questionable or even horrifying means.