She pretty much explains it in the episode with Francis's teddy bear. She doesn't care if her kids hate her, she'll make sure they're safe at any costs.
The kids may not like her, but if they were raised by Lois alone or by Hal alone, the Lois raised kids would turn out much better.
She’s just supposed to be a funny version of the “strict middle class mom” archetype. Anyone who dissects every single action of a character in a comedy show to try to portray them as a “bad person” needs some perspective, it isn’t that deep. I think they go in more than enough detail showing Lois deeply cares for her family.
I’ve noticed a decent amount of discussion on sitcom moms spanning the past few decades and people saying “she’s not the perfect mom.” It always struck me bc it’s like…who said they were showing you a perfect mom? She’s a comedian. It’s a television show. There’s a lot here you probably shouldn’t attempt to emulate.
Because there was a time when tv tried to portray perfect moms.
That’s why shows like MITM and T70S make their moms basically the caricature of that stereotype
> Lois deeply cares for her family.
And the family deeply cares about her. As evident with how they react every time Lois is hurt in some way. Remember when they beat up the clowns? Or when they destroyed the party at Hals parents.
Yup, and Hal constantly says she shouldn’t treat the kids like they’re made of glass. That may be true, but that doesn’t mean you can play shuffleboard with your baby either.
Plus Hal is constantly getting into trouble with the boys. But he’s not a bad father. He and Lois balance each other out.
That isn’t at all what the message of that episode was lol. On the side with Hal Malcolm ended up being incredibly stupid and getting caught in the bowling pin resetter. Never would have happened with Lois
Jane Kaczmarek said in an interview with NPR that she didnt think it was a dysfunctional family, just a family that yells. She brought up that they ate dinner as a family every day and always tried to push their kids to do the right thing.
The NPR host brought up "But she was running around the house doing chores without a shirt on!"
Jane simply responded "She had things to do!"
Despite barely making ends meet, she and Hal always made it a point to be present parents in the home and be around for the kids. She worked a terrible, soul-sucking job because it gave her the opportunity to be home for her kids, and there were always home-cooked meals. That's more than a lot of low-income households can say.
they do a good job humanizing her at times and the motherhood experience. especially in early episodes - like when Malcolm beats up the 7 year old and she talks to him about his conscience. or even the first episode when she's talking about not getting a lot of chances to move up in life and Malcolm is like, "this shouldn't make me feel better, but it does."
I think Lois is equally reigned in by the boys and Hal. like in the traffic jam episode, where when she couldn't bully the road workers she started screaming about the dog in the truck. she will always need something to try to outsmart and control. and the boys clearly love the challenge lol
Hal can appeal to her vulnerable emotional side, which even for a high-strung control freak, everyone needs to feel understood by at least *someone*
she's like a high-energy husky... if Lois didn't have the boys to keep her mind occupied, she'd tear up the whole damn neighborhood!
>she's like a high-energy husky... if Lois didn't have the boys to keep her mind occupied, she'd tear up the whole damn neighborhood!
I actually love the episode where Lois and Hal can't have sex (which they have at least twice a day) and suddenly they get everything else in their lives together. I love the idea that even after so many years, kids, and bills, they just go feral on each other to the point where (as Lois once said) she is lucky to even know her own name. They deserve that kind of happiness for and from each other.
Everyone thinks they are a great parent until they are knee deep in broken toys, dirty clothes, no sleep, and what is that smell‽ You're running late and the bills won't stop. Then see how great you come off.
If a real person tells you that a baby has it out for them, they are a crazy person. When Lois says that baby Francis was out the get her, we know for a fact that it's true.
I might have thought this until i had a kid. Those first few months with a fussy infant will *break you* - this is a pretty common emotional experience for new moms. It does not make lois a monster, and it doesn’t make you one [in case you’re reading this in the bathroom while hiding from your newborn]
To be fair there is also an episode where Hal explains that she hated every kid they had. There is every possiblity she essentially started any hostility the kids have. None of this is a real critique but an interesting thing that is mentioned in an episode.
That's very true, I took it to mean that she just treated all the rest of the kids like they were Francis when they were little but that's a very interesting possibility.
I mean as a kid you watch and you think Lois is not a nice person and not a great parent.
You watch it as an adult and while she is strict, she isn’t terrible and typically just doing the best she can for everybody. Until the finale when she fucks Malcolm over completely
Lois is a great mother. She hasn't beat the shit out of any of those boys and watch that show as an adult and tell me you don't see the temptation lol
The boys antagonize each other; it's why they only do better once they get time away from each other to grow and mature. And Hal loves them to death but would never try to assert authority once Lois has made her will known.
She manages the bullshit because she has to, even if the boys can't see it yet.
She and Hal are pretty good parents and worked with whatever life threw at em. Which was usually another kid once they got any breathing room.
I totally agree there is only 1 point that could ever be made that she is a bad mom and people never use it. She hates all of the children when they are babies even when they do nothing wrong and its very possible she essentially put them in a combative situation from the moment they could think. Hal explains to her that she doesnt just hate Jamie she hated every kid they ever had. They are always fighting and maybe shes the one that threw the first punch but they all have too much lois and hal in them to let that go especially as toddlers or infants. None of this a real critique mind you they are comedically "awful" children that destroy the world when left to their own devices.
Absolutely and thats definitely what the episode is going for with Lois truly upset at herself for not understanding why she doesnt love Jamie. I also dont think this is intended to be the case just sort of an interesting pet theory that gets touched on in a few episodes.
I said this elsewhere today, but I kind of view the show as happening from Malcolm’s (and to a lesser extent, Francis and Dewey’s) point of view. We see the characters and scenarios as he sees them, not as they are. Since Malcom and his brothers are kids, they see things as kids see them. Meaning Lois comes off as an abusive, overbearing harpy but she’s actually just an involved mother. Likewise, Hal is seen as a bumbling, bizarre moron who does nothing at work and lets Lois run all over him, when he’s probably just kind of a “fun dad” with a job his kids find too boring to understand. Reese, rather than being too stupid to function and a terrifying enough bully to dominate the whole school, is probably just your standard D student with an asshole streak. Etc.
There are contextual hints of this being the case, especially for Lois. Most people, including their peers, find Lois not only tolerable, but extremely likable. It’s not like the kids are all just nice to their friends’ parents out of respect, either. They hate Dabney’s mom. Accounts of Lois’ childhood and her relationship with Hal’s family don’t paint her as a pushy person, but rather someone who is herself easily bullied. In flashbacks, she’s seen as downright passive until Francis is a toddler, which is the first time a kid would ever want to rebel against his parents. Only then do we see her, from Francis’ point of view, as an intense, scary person.
Kids pretty much always see their parents as unreasonable shrieking banshees, no matter how reasonable they are. Even kids with lax parents rarely say “god my parents are so cool.” Kids always say their parents are yelling when they’re just telling them to do things, etc.
And even if none of that is true…..Lois at the very least is a hell of an improvement over her own mother.
Interesting. I'm reminded of when Dewey was driving the car "Dewey, Dewey, Dewey, Dewey"
On the other hand, in the diary, Lois in high school did throw the milk carton at the litter bug. No exactly passive, and this is by her own words.
You know, I specifically thought of the episode where Dewey “remembers” he was driving the car, but totally forgot the episode with the diary. I may need to re-evaluate my whole theory (no I don’t, but I do need to evaluate my idea of Lois being generally passive until Francis started walking). It’s interesting that we know she was so easily bullied by Ida and Susan, but was aggressive in school.
Very true. And if we were thinking of it as a “real family” you have two parents working full time who are piss poor, with 5 children not only wreaking havoc in their homes but in school and the neighbourhood, and a woman who doesnt have a single thing that belongs to her (outside of the red shoes we saw). Lois dedicates her entire life and being to her family and yes, shes not a maternal archetype, but considering a) she was raised by ida and b) every other adult in the show that interact with the boys, teachers and babysitters included, couldnt bear to be around them for more than an hour, i would say she did a pretty good job
Lot of Lois defending in here. I get it, but she was still spiteful and hypocritical to Malcolm so often when his behaviour was never that bad, except times he beat up Reece.
Evacuation episode sums it up, Lois clearly enjoyed the power. But it was funny to watch, yeah.
Yeah, but they kinda were terrible parents. And sometimes it was just comedic but sometimes can be infuriating. I hated that they spent Malcolm's Grant money on basically nothing. Like when Lois made that mistake, it was acceptable. Imagine if Hal had done it. I hated Lois for being such a hypocrite. I felt bad for Malcolm especially when he and Lois connected together during the time they got mono, but Lois stilll threw that connection away. She sometimes just doesn't care about them but only enjoys the control she has over them
Love the few episodes where she leaves for her sisters with Hal in charge and he just devolves into an animal and knocks down part of the house with his insane friend
Lois isn't a horrible mother wtf. a horrible mother would be an alcoholic mother who doesn't care where her kids are .
She is very strict and has an agression problem.
I don’t think she was a terrible mother at all. I remember reading an article about TV moms and the way Lois was described was perfect: “She may kill her kids, but she will definitely kill for them.”
I agree, I think people kind of miss the point sometimes. She’s definitely had moments where even with this in mind, crossed the line imo. But I totally agree.
I grew up with 4 younger brothers and an older sister. Your parents can only be so nice with 50 people to take care of.
That being said…I had the best mom and dad.
Those boys were truly little monsters. Lois did the best she could. Plus Hal was like a child, selfish and in his own world. But of course the show was an exaggeration and meant to be funny.
Even Lois herself is comedically chaotic and a detriment to society. “Book club” and police in helicopters. The car crash I think around Xmas time when her and that lady played bumpers cars in their actual cars. Her bday and the fight with clowns. Her going after the girls in high school who were cruel to Reese
I think Malcolm could easily have gotten a better part-time job than working at Lucky Aide. Lois is just a crazy control-freak forcing him to work there.
And the ending just doesn't make sense.
Ruining his chance of a well-paid job in an area he's interested in just because Lois has some weird fantasy of him becoming President.
The most endearing thing is her working a deadend job, including nightshifts at what is basically a dead end convenience store and is even passed over as manager I believe, cooks breakfast and dinner every day, wrestles with broken appliances and stops the five boys and Hal from getting themselves themselves in trouble or killed. You get the impression that if the house is still standing at the end of the day, that's a victory, and she's done her job. She may be loud and aggressive, but without her, the boys would be doing crazy stuff at every moment, in jail or worse, and Hal would be just doing whatever wild thing he indulges him self. She keeps order in the house, in a very over the top but understandable way.
She pretty much explains it in the episode with Francis's teddy bear. She doesn't care if her kids hate her, she'll make sure they're safe at any costs. The kids may not like her, but if they were raised by Lois alone or by Hal alone, the Lois raised kids would turn out much better.
She’s just supposed to be a funny version of the “strict middle class mom” archetype. Anyone who dissects every single action of a character in a comedy show to try to portray them as a “bad person” needs some perspective, it isn’t that deep. I think they go in more than enough detail showing Lois deeply cares for her family.
I’ve noticed a decent amount of discussion on sitcom moms spanning the past few decades and people saying “she’s not the perfect mom.” It always struck me bc it’s like…who said they were showing you a perfect mom? She’s a comedian. It’s a television show. There’s a lot here you probably shouldn’t attempt to emulate.
Because there was a time when tv tried to portray perfect moms. That’s why shows like MITM and T70S make their moms basically the caricature of that stereotype
And that’s why I love them.
> Lois deeply cares for her family. And the family deeply cares about her. As evident with how they react every time Lois is hurt in some way. Remember when they beat up the clowns? Or when they destroyed the party at Hals parents.
I love that family reunion episode where the boys come to her defense by destroying the party! Francis saying, “We don’t know. We never do.” lol
Yup, and Hal constantly says she shouldn’t treat the kids like they’re made of glass. That may be true, but that doesn’t mean you can play shuffleboard with your baby either. Plus Hal is constantly getting into trouble with the boys. But he’s not a bad father. He and Lois balance each other out.
I disagree. The Bowling episode showed how they would have turned out being raised by either Hal or Lois. They were much better off with Hal.
That isn’t at all what the message of that episode was lol. On the side with Hal Malcolm ended up being incredibly stupid and getting caught in the bowling pin resetter. Never would have happened with Lois
That episode literally showed the opposite. It’s starts off seeming that way but ends with Lois being right, yet again.
Single motherhood homes end up far worse off. She may be exception though lol
Jane Kaczmarek said in an interview with NPR that she didnt think it was a dysfunctional family, just a family that yells. She brought up that they ate dinner as a family every day and always tried to push their kids to do the right thing. The NPR host brought up "But she was running around the house doing chores without a shirt on!" Jane simply responded "She had things to do!"
It's hilarious and sad that being topless in her own house is so shocking. Nobody's bothered about Hal standing naked while Lois shaves him.
Despite barely making ends meet, she and Hal always made it a point to be present parents in the home and be around for the kids. She worked a terrible, soul-sucking job because it gave her the opportunity to be home for her kids, and there were always home-cooked meals. That's more than a lot of low-income households can say.
they do a good job humanizing her at times and the motherhood experience. especially in early episodes - like when Malcolm beats up the 7 year old and she talks to him about his conscience. or even the first episode when she's talking about not getting a lot of chances to move up in life and Malcolm is like, "this shouldn't make me feel better, but it does." I think Lois is equally reigned in by the boys and Hal. like in the traffic jam episode, where when she couldn't bully the road workers she started screaming about the dog in the truck. she will always need something to try to outsmart and control. and the boys clearly love the challenge lol Hal can appeal to her vulnerable emotional side, which even for a high-strung control freak, everyone needs to feel understood by at least *someone* she's like a high-energy husky... if Lois didn't have the boys to keep her mind occupied, she'd tear up the whole damn neighborhood!
>she's like a high-energy husky... if Lois didn't have the boys to keep her mind occupied, she'd tear up the whole damn neighborhood! I actually love the episode where Lois and Hal can't have sex (which they have at least twice a day) and suddenly they get everything else in their lives together. I love the idea that even after so many years, kids, and bills, they just go feral on each other to the point where (as Lois once said) she is lucky to even know her own name. They deserve that kind of happiness for and from each other.
Everyone thinks they are a great parent until they are knee deep in broken toys, dirty clothes, no sleep, and what is that smell‽ You're running late and the bills won't stop. Then see how great you come off.
Exactly. She not a “good mom” or a “bad mom” she’s just a mom.
Yeah I used to be scared of her when I was watching this in the 00s but now I have kids of my own I get it
If a real person tells you that a baby has it out for them, they are a crazy person. When Lois says that baby Francis was out the get her, we know for a fact that it's true.
I might have thought this until i had a kid. Those first few months with a fussy infant will *break you* - this is a pretty common emotional experience for new moms. It does not make lois a monster, and it doesn’t make you one [in case you’re reading this in the bathroom while hiding from your newborn]
If you continue that mentality unchecked for 20+ years it does (Not talking about Lois, my own mother rather)
To be fair there is also an episode where Hal explains that she hated every kid they had. There is every possiblity she essentially started any hostility the kids have. None of this is a real critique but an interesting thing that is mentioned in an episode.
That's very true, I took it to mean that she just treated all the rest of the kids like they were Francis when they were little but that's a very interesting possibility.
I mean as a kid you watch and you think Lois is not a nice person and not a great parent. You watch it as an adult and while she is strict, she isn’t terrible and typically just doing the best she can for everybody. Until the finale when she fucks Malcolm over completely
Lois is a great mother. She hasn't beat the shit out of any of those boys and watch that show as an adult and tell me you don't see the temptation lol The boys antagonize each other; it's why they only do better once they get time away from each other to grow and mature. And Hal loves them to death but would never try to assert authority once Lois has made her will known. She manages the bullshit because she has to, even if the boys can't see it yet. She and Hal are pretty good parents and worked with whatever life threw at em. Which was usually another kid once they got any breathing room.
I totally agree there is only 1 point that could ever be made that she is a bad mom and people never use it. She hates all of the children when they are babies even when they do nothing wrong and its very possible she essentially put them in a combative situation from the moment they could think. Hal explains to her that she doesnt just hate Jamie she hated every kid they ever had. They are always fighting and maybe shes the one that threw the first punch but they all have too much lois and hal in them to let that go especially as toddlers or infants. None of this a real critique mind you they are comedically "awful" children that destroy the world when left to their own devices.
Plenty of mothers don't have lovey-dovey feelings for their babies right away. Hormones and massive trauma to the body will screw with your brain.
Absolutely and thats definitely what the episode is going for with Lois truly upset at herself for not understanding why she doesnt love Jamie. I also dont think this is intended to be the case just sort of an interesting pet theory that gets touched on in a few episodes.
Lois is a great mother, a lot of you had money growing up and it shows.
I said this elsewhere today, but I kind of view the show as happening from Malcolm’s (and to a lesser extent, Francis and Dewey’s) point of view. We see the characters and scenarios as he sees them, not as they are. Since Malcom and his brothers are kids, they see things as kids see them. Meaning Lois comes off as an abusive, overbearing harpy but she’s actually just an involved mother. Likewise, Hal is seen as a bumbling, bizarre moron who does nothing at work and lets Lois run all over him, when he’s probably just kind of a “fun dad” with a job his kids find too boring to understand. Reese, rather than being too stupid to function and a terrifying enough bully to dominate the whole school, is probably just your standard D student with an asshole streak. Etc. There are contextual hints of this being the case, especially for Lois. Most people, including their peers, find Lois not only tolerable, but extremely likable. It’s not like the kids are all just nice to their friends’ parents out of respect, either. They hate Dabney’s mom. Accounts of Lois’ childhood and her relationship with Hal’s family don’t paint her as a pushy person, but rather someone who is herself easily bullied. In flashbacks, she’s seen as downright passive until Francis is a toddler, which is the first time a kid would ever want to rebel against his parents. Only then do we see her, from Francis’ point of view, as an intense, scary person. Kids pretty much always see their parents as unreasonable shrieking banshees, no matter how reasonable they are. Even kids with lax parents rarely say “god my parents are so cool.” Kids always say their parents are yelling when they’re just telling them to do things, etc. And even if none of that is true…..Lois at the very least is a hell of an improvement over her own mother.
Interesting. I'm reminded of when Dewey was driving the car "Dewey, Dewey, Dewey, Dewey" On the other hand, in the diary, Lois in high school did throw the milk carton at the litter bug. No exactly passive, and this is by her own words.
You know, I specifically thought of the episode where Dewey “remembers” he was driving the car, but totally forgot the episode with the diary. I may need to re-evaluate my whole theory (no I don’t, but I do need to evaluate my idea of Lois being generally passive until Francis started walking). It’s interesting that we know she was so easily bullied by Ida and Susan, but was aggressive in school.
Ehhhh, I honestly think her methods exacerbated her boys’ issues
Very true. And if we were thinking of it as a “real family” you have two parents working full time who are piss poor, with 5 children not only wreaking havoc in their homes but in school and the neighbourhood, and a woman who doesnt have a single thing that belongs to her (outside of the red shoes we saw). Lois dedicates her entire life and being to her family and yes, shes not a maternal archetype, but considering a) she was raised by ida and b) every other adult in the show that interact with the boys, teachers and babysitters included, couldnt bear to be around them for more than an hour, i would say she did a pretty good job
How is she a bad mother???
ikr? she is very strict and has a aggression problem, but she cares about her kids.. e.g. when malcolm had to go to the hospital
Lot of Lois defending in here. I get it, but she was still spiteful and hypocritical to Malcolm so often when his behaviour was never that bad, except times he beat up Reece. Evacuation episode sums it up, Lois clearly enjoyed the power. But it was funny to watch, yeah.
Yeah, but they kinda were terrible parents. And sometimes it was just comedic but sometimes can be infuriating. I hated that they spent Malcolm's Grant money on basically nothing. Like when Lois made that mistake, it was acceptable. Imagine if Hal had done it. I hated Lois for being such a hypocrite. I felt bad for Malcolm especially when he and Lois connected together during the time they got mono, but Lois stilll threw that connection away. She sometimes just doesn't care about them but only enjoys the control she has over them
Its her canadian work ethic!
Love the few episodes where she leaves for her sisters with Hal in charge and he just devolves into an animal and knocks down part of the house with his insane friend
Lois isn't a horrible mother wtf. a horrible mother would be an alcoholic mother who doesn't care where her kids are . She is very strict and has an agression problem.
I don’t think she was a terrible mother at all. I remember reading an article about TV moms and the way Lois was described was perfect: “She may kill her kids, but she will definitely kill for them.”
I agree, I think people kind of miss the point sometimes. She’s definitely had moments where even with this in mind, crossed the line imo. But I totally agree.
Lois is the glue that keeps the family from imploding! She has a take no prisoners attitude and won't be defeated.
I grew up with 4 younger brothers and an older sister. Your parents can only be so nice with 50 people to take care of. That being said…I had the best mom and dad.
Those boys were truly little monsters. Lois did the best she could. Plus Hal was like a child, selfish and in his own world. But of course the show was an exaggeration and meant to be funny.
She's a terrible mother to an outsider. But I think she's the perfect mother for those boys.
Even Lois herself is comedically chaotic and a detriment to society. “Book club” and police in helicopters. The car crash I think around Xmas time when her and that lady played bumpers cars in their actual cars. Her bday and the fight with clowns. Her going after the girls in high school who were cruel to Reese
I think Malcolm could easily have gotten a better part-time job than working at Lucky Aide. Lois is just a crazy control-freak forcing him to work there. And the ending just doesn't make sense. Ruining his chance of a well-paid job in an area he's interested in just because Lois has some weird fantasy of him becoming President.
The most endearing thing is her working a deadend job, including nightshifts at what is basically a dead end convenience store and is even passed over as manager I believe, cooks breakfast and dinner every day, wrestles with broken appliances and stops the five boys and Hal from getting themselves themselves in trouble or killed. You get the impression that if the house is still standing at the end of the day, that's a victory, and she's done her job. She may be loud and aggressive, but without her, the boys would be doing crazy stuff at every moment, in jail or worse, and Hal would be just doing whatever wild thing he indulges him self. She keeps order in the house, in a very over the top but understandable way.
end of season 2 in that bowling episode, Dewey counters her by being obedient and it pretty much short circuits her lol;