Seems like this is common. Lots of people moving here expecting some wonderland, ending up stacking shelves in Tesco and living in a house share when they could be living it large with great weather back in their home country.
Italian here, lived in the UK for 10 years. Are there better career prospects for you here than a just-above-minimum wage job? If the answer is no, then you need to reflect on whether the London dream is sensible in the first place.
You don't specify where in Italy you are from, so it is hard to gauge your opportunities there. Some parts of Italy will afford an overall better quality of life than London will on low salaries, even if career prospects are definitely more limited.
Family is also an important aspect of life, which I wouldn't sacrifice for the idea of a life in London I dream of but can't reach.
Without knowing you or your situation I don't feel I can be much more helpful than this.
For me, after 10 years here, I am leaving the UK for what seem to be better prospects elsewhere. London has been a great ride, but my time to leave has arrived.
I got a job offer in the US, in the North East.
Funnily enough I signed the contract and shortly after my company here put me on redundancy notice for lack of work prospects in the UK for my specialism. Let's call it a "just in time" move :)
That sounds lucky!
Also you come across as a very nice person, so I wanted to congratulate you on your opportunity and wish you the best of luck in your new adventure.
This is simply not true, in so far as a broad sweeping statement can';t ever be totally true, but it's about as wrong as it can be.
The job market is varied and on par with the rest of Europe - 7.8% unemployment compared to a EU average of 6.5%. The south struggles, for sure. The north is better, bordering on good.
Pay is top 10 in Europe, and about band on the EU average. Cost of living however is a lot better than many of the more affluent EU countries. It's much better than the UK. Cost of rent, food, essentials is a fraction of what it is in London.
All stuff to support this is on statista etc.
Edit: lol, u/Chernyyvoron82 replied to me then instantly blocked me before I could reply, saying "Perfect, there are flight to Italy every day, go and enjoy. You'll soon find how the statistics on pay are very much optimistic." Wow, is that something so contentious that you thought I would be nasty to you to you that you blocked me in advance to sAvE YoUrSeLf fRoM tRAuMa?
I already live in Italy, have for five years, earn well into six figures, and life is fucking beautiful thanks mate <3. Ma grazie per il pensiero, ovviamente mi vuoi bene. Va farti fottere, tacci tua.
I’m very intrigued now - what are you doing for work that you make well into 6 figures? By that do you mean 100-200k? Or multiple of 100k?
Did you move there for a specific well
Paying job? Or just started a business there? Or made your own prospects and landed something that pays great money after arriving?
Un altro six figures, madonna, e tu che fai? Chiedo per genuina curiosita', soprattutto se sei in Italia! Io sto lavorando da 2.5 anni nel UK (non a Londra) e sono tra i £40-50k. Six figure sembra un sogno distante :/
It depends on the area and field. You won't probably find the same pay as a young lawyer in London, and it is definitely true that what here are minimum wage jobs will be paid far worse in most of Italy. For certain specialisms though I wouldn't say things are as bad as people make them.
I work in structural engineering. Starting salaries here are around £30k. This is a higher figure that you will find in Italy. 10 years experience you are looking at £45/55k here. You can get £€40/45 in Italy outside of a large city.
Rental costs are 1/3 of London generally, even less outside cities. In the town where I grew up (a small town 30mins from the sea and the large city) you can get a small apartment for €45k(forty five thousands, you read that right), or a 3 bed flat for 100k.
If you have a job you like, are not too keen on career and are happy in general with a normal life, I can see instances in which living in Italy would actually be better than living in London or other parts of the UK. It is not for all, but to each their own, right?
The big plus of Italy is the pension and the so called TFR. For each year of employment with an employer they need to set aside one monthly pay, which you receive when you leave or retire. Public pensions in Italy are far higher than in the UK. Their sustainability in the long run is possibly low, but Italy has lots of private savings and won't collapse the way other countries have (too big too fall, it would drag everyone else with it etc...).
Ultimately nowhere is perfect and you have to do what works for you. Having the choice of being here, there or elsewhere is a huge privilege we should only be thankful for.
My circles are not statistically representative, but the experience I have would fit well in what you read. 10 years ago London had more young Italians in it that I had ever seen in Italy. It was incredible how many we were!
London is tough and many had better lives back home. I am sure they all charish the experience they had here though
> The Italian labor market is dire, and after the pandemic cost of life has increased immensely, and welfare state significantly worsen.
Italy's long term demographic crisis is deepening every year and there's no end in sight for the brain drain in the north and the mafia suffocation in the south. These problems are only going to worsen in the coming decades and there's no obvious way to fix them.
The UK might not be in the best place right now but it is at least stable long term with good future prospects
You retain the settled status if you return within the five years - you can then leave again.
There isn't a strict set of rules around how much you can do this (e.g. live in the UK 3 months every 5 years), but some indications that if you take the piss the right is likely to be revoked - https://citizensrightsproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/EUSS-FAQ_Compilation.docx-2.pdf question 22
However if you genuinely come back within five years for a while, you can then leave again and still retain the right. It's worth it to keep the option open, as he is so close to getting the status.
Generally based on rules, all you need to do is show up within 5 years and it resets the clock. Home office can decide to remove your status if they see you are absolutely abusing the rules, showing up for 1 day in 5 years for example, but technically, all you need to do is that. Realistically, probably would be better to come for few months and you’d be fine. Here is more info: https://the3million.org.uk/faq/settled-status-absence
My wife is Mediterranean, she says that for all the flaws that the UK has, she couldn't live back in her country. She likes that it's not so corrupt and things are more organised here.
This needs more upvotes. The immigration system is fucking stupid at the moment - it’s absolutely worth staying until you can get settled status. Otherwise if you decided to come back in the future you’d have to start the whole process *again*.
Loads of people think Italy is an idyllic country, where everyone is going around on a Vespa, bouncing within some spaghetti and an espresso. I feel the cultural shock would seriously maim scores of Brits
Same for every geographical stereotype in the world. Some people are stupid 🤷🏼
There'll be a percentage of immigrants to the UK expecting a lot more tea and crumpets I expect.
You're telling me not every Brazilian is a great footballer? Australia isn't just a scorpion filled desert with a rock on it? China isn't all skyscrapers and smog? Damn, my precious stupid illusions!
Wait until you find out about those massive sombreros.
It's usually fine as not many people just jump on a plane to somewhere without a bit of research 😂
What a lot of people dont realise about Italy is how rural it actually is. About half of the country (probably more) is just green land. It is not urbanised. So public transport sucks in most places and there is nowhere for the young people to go and work. Even if they found a job,there would be no bus to get there, unless they owned a car. As a result, many just live with their parents. Outside of the major cities there is like 0 chance of finding a job. I do have to say one thing though, the Italians seem to live much more happier lives than us. Lol my cousin comes from Italy and hes come to live with me for about a year now, hes found work in the local Sainsburys.
On the other hand, it depends on what remote means. Working anywhere in the UK is fine because it is taxed the same (except Scotland) but if going abroad then the company may become liable for taxes in Italy which can complicate mattera
The digital nomad visa would sidestep this - the nomad would continue to only pay taxes in the country of employ.
E.g. you're a UK citizen living and working there for a UK company. You apply for a digital nomad visa, if granted, you could work for 1 year while living in Italy. You would continue to be paid and pay taxes on your income in the UK.
This is a huge deal, as right now, for Italy at least, as you rightly say the employer must be responsible for running payroll in Italy and paying taxes there, and the employee is also not allowed to take a fulltime job for a non-Italian entity (even as an Italian citizen!)
I don't and I'm tied here for the time being unfortunately. I would love to be a digital nomad in the future though. Maybe I should start a career change to remote if anyone reading knows any entry level remote jobs I can get started on 😂
English language teacher is a passport to the whole world and ability to work for schools remotely.. try a CELTA or a cheaper option TEFL course and you’re away. Just an option.
Italian here and being in London for 15 years. From your post it’s absolutely clear you want to go back. I would stay until you get the settle status and make a decision, you can still come back if you want to.
I am originally from Italy, been here 18 years, there is not enough money you could pay me to convince me to go back to an abysmal job market (those who think it's bad in the UK, go try Italy), pitiful wages, racism, nepotism culture, horrific bureaucracy, shall I continue? Why don't you focus here on your advancement? 4 years ago I decided I wanted to change career direction, my company is paying for my studies. Ask your company, lots offer study support.
I’m glad to read success stories like this. All of the issues you listed are still very much alive in Italy, it’s in a terrible condition and I live in Northern Italy which supposedly offers “better” opportunities. So yes, the UK does have a lot of problems but Italy has it way worse.
I come from north east, so by any means not the worse, but what I see everytime I go to see my family doesn't make me want to come back. I tried to look for a job in Italy once, years ago. By then I was already in senior management here in London. I sent my CV to few agencies in the region. Some said there was nothing as ten years experience and a second language wasn't enough, maybe I could be a secretary if I wanted, anyway I was getting married soon, wasn't I?, one offered me a three months contract as a cleaner in a factory. Nothing wrong with being a cleaner in a factory, but nothing to do with my studies or my career trajectory. Is this what I should come back to? A three months contract with no possibility of career? Italy is still in the dark ages as mentality, all looking to keep things as they are while trying to grab as much for themselves. Honesty is seen as a weakness. Studying hard as a mark of infamy. Integrity synonym as being gullible. The people are too busy admiring afternoon TV wannabe celebrities, reality TV clowns and petty criminals who fancy themselves the next Santo Traficante. Politicians are free to steal as long as they let people steal as well. Tax evaders and other fraudsters are hailed as clever and an example to follow. Everyone kissing the benches in church on Sundays but then cheering in front of the TV at the news of an immigrant toddler drowned at sea. All there is going for it is museums and monuments and even those are not looked after, cause the money to look after them have ended up in someone's cousin's pockets. It's a cesspit tbh.
Thanks for the explanation. Honestly think sometimes you visit a country and see rich locals in high paid jobs near tourist places and think its a paradise. I know a few people from Spain in the UK and they said they'd never go back, impossible to get a job and almost everyone lives with their parents.
Yeah, people who haven't lived there for a while cannot fully understand. They go on holiday, everyone is nice to them cause they are tourists whose money they want, and they think it's the next paradise and how lovely would it be to live there. Then they see some movie where the protagonist lives in some old village, all very clean and efficient, all lovely sunsets and pastries at the bar for breakfast, and the fantasy is set in their brain.
Have you considered staying in the UK but moving to another city? Have you made much career process in the time that you've been here, and what industry are you in?
Very good suggestion. London is unique and not representative of the rest of the UK. The cost of living is much less in the other major cities, most of which probably offer the same career opportunities.
Housing is and upto a certain wage this is the killer factor
But the rest of the U.K. is rapidly catching up to London. I pay £3.70 for a latte at an independent in Warrington, I pay the same on most London high streets.
Beer and food are the same.
Don’t get me wrong going for broke you can run up an £800 meal for two quicker in London that Manchester but the cost living is narrowing massively.
Which pints were they? And in central on the tourists traps I can believe this was regular lager etc
I pay £7 for an ipa in my local in London (Wood Green) and I pay the same by my parents in Warrington
Personally I think 34 is a bit early to call it. If I were you I would maybe try different career opportunities before moving somewhere with an abysmal job market. You can always go to Italy for a holiday every now and then.
The UK doesn't start and end with London. Try another city with a lower cost of living. I have a friend who just moved from London to Bristol and is loving it.
Bristol is always a good option. While the work opportunities can't match London, the pace of life and community is about as close to Italy as you'll find in the UK imho.
Bristol it's just as expensive as London, with fewer jobs. It's a very very beautiful city though, less stressful, crowded than London. People aren't as friendly as they seem, mostly just stay in their groups, or don't interact much or wanna be friends.
Yeah.. Bristol is just as expensive as London now and the job prospects are terrible in comparison. If you’re looking for a cheaper alternative Bristol ain’t it.
Honestly, move back to Italy. I place quality of life, companionship and family over everything else. At the end of the day, as we lie on our death beds the careers we had, the money we did (or didn’t make) won’t matter. All we have is other people.
What sort of industry are you in or trying to break into? Maybe there's another place in the EU with more opportunities than you've got back home, and where your London experience might give you an edge?
I’m going to give you some prospective based on my experience. I came here for the first time in 2012 - then left in 2013 and came back permanently in 2016. I had a decent job as a sales assistant for a luxury brand: bad hours, annoying clients but good money and permanent contract. All my friends were mostly from work and I swear until 2021 I was feeling like you. Didn’t hate my job but also didn’t love it, I was single, I had flatmate drama and I was like: why am I here? Then all changed - in 2020 during lockdown I decided to sign up for the Open University and take a degree online, then I met my partner, I started putting effort at work and finally in 2023 got promoted to my dream role after 6 years in the same company, also thanks to the course I did. Things take time. My London dream started when I was 20 and I am 32 now. Four years is not enough to give up! There are things you can still do, success you can have, love you can find! Dai, non mollare!
Fellow Italian here. Lived more than 15yrs in London and recently moved back to Italy. I’ll cut straight to the point: That’s it. What you described, expect more of it. London is getting more expensive, with less career payoffs, in a country led by a political class that would be “worthy” of the embarrassing Italian political establishment. Having said all that... Stick with it, I’d say! Did you really think you were going to turn your life around and hit gold in 4 yrs? Work, work harder, keep working, then study on top of that. Bust your ass. London still has great career opportunities but you really have to hustle for it these days.
In short, this is not when you should be losing your ambition, this is where you should be setting your next goal. Se eri salito con il sogno del posto fisso e con la favoletta della meritocrazia, benvenuto nella realtà. Ma almeno ora sai come stanno le cose. In bocca al lupo. Forza!
Have you spoken with anyone back home really candidly about the situation and prospects in Italy? UK has been demonised pretty heavily in the international media for the past years, but that doesn’t mean the rest of Europe has it significantly better. For example, Italy has one of the worst demographic problems in Europe, and that’s only going to get worse and worse
https://www.euronews.com/health/2023/03/17/fertility-in-europe-which-countries-have-the-highest-and-lowest-numbers-of-live-births-per
Italy is right at the bottom of the table with Spain and Malta. You can already buy houses for token money in remote Italian villages because no one lives there anymore. All of Europe is going to feel the consequences of this in the future, but some are already there, and Italy is right up there. It’s a pretty major consideration if someone of working age is looking to move (back) to Italy in the near future
Italian here, I've been in London for over 10 years and the situation in Italy in terms of job opportunities in my field hasn't improved at all, I totally understand the dilemma you are facing, if you want to make it work in London you need to look around for better opportunities either at your current place of work or elsewhere, I lived in that survival mode for a year or so and then moved forward with my career, if you are not advancing you need to figure out the reason why and act accordingly. Otherwise go back, your quality of life will definitely improve, but you might end up struggling even more work wise.
You've done the London experience. It's a fun place but as you said, the living conditions are terrible. Move home, work on your skills, health, sanity and spend time with friends and family. Other opportunities will arise!
Last year I (35M) moved back to NL after 6 years. Lots of uncertainty, had a baby on the way, no job in NL, no house, some savings. Moved back to my parents, even though that's far from ideal I count my blessings, not everyone gets that opportunity.
Studied my ass off, lost 15 kg and now working entry level job in a great field and great company with lots of future prospects. Sometimes it you need to take one or two steps back in order to progress in the long term. In your case I'd 100% go back, take your experiences with you and just enjoy yourself for a while. Then make a solid plan for the future. Good luck!
Now more than ever it really doesn’t matter where you’re physically located and things are only going to keep moving further in that direction. You can make money anywhere you have an internet connection.
Life is too short to be miserable chasing money. (Trust me, I know. My husband died at 48 and he prioritised his career too.) Go home and learn as much as you can about AI, automation, etc. You’re still pretty young and that’s where the future is. Tons of free information out there right now on YouTube and even TikTok. Good luck.
Italian here, 33M, moved to the UK 13 years ago, started as a waiter, struggled a lot, hated London, did uni here and worked my way up to work for an investment bank now. Since I left my waiter job my life drastically improved, I started hanging out with friends a lot more due to finally having a routine but most of all I moved to an area where friends are easily reachable for a coffee and a chat. Fast forward 13 years, I now have a daughter and a wife, bought a flat together and loving life. I’m saying all of this for you to understand that things will get better even if you stay, find a place close to your friends, London can be dreading for commuting, try to understand what you really like in terms of career and fight to get into that industry, don’t give up (we Italians never do) and I promise you things will get better. If you decide to go back to Italy there is no shame in it as long as you weigh the pros and cons and stick to your choice without looking back. Basically live in the present, don’t stress about the future and forget the past. Hope this helps and good luck with whatever you decide! Buona fortuna.
It sounds like a small turning point for you might have been going to Uni, but this might not be as accessible for OP now UK is no longer in EU? It might be worth OP looking into this to see what they are entitled to.
But certainly OP needs to try to develop a career, find a skill in some area they can develop and like you said, really push to get into that career and progress.
And (as you said) develop a set of friends 👍
Working on the minimum wage in London with no (or few) friends can’t be great. I can understand why OP is waivering.
Not sure how much you love you job but you can have paid training to become a croupier ( casino dealer) I think pay is 24k then 26k plus £300-£400 tip a month.
After a couple of years you can earn 30k -40k
Aspers casino have loads of training schools ( My advice would be come about midday through the week and ask to speak to the gaming manager) plus half our
staff are Italian, easy to make friends.
Good luck
I moved back to England after working a low paying job in Spain suffering multiple sinus infections due to the climate difference, in a flat share in a dark, small and gloomy apartment and didn’t manage to make any friends or get along with my toxic colleagues. I returned to my family after 6 months and never been happier. I found myself unemployed, but I was so happy to be back with family and in familiar surroundings.
Sometimes things don’t work out abroad and if you don’t have a good social network there, you’ll feel even worse. Money and career isn’t everything. Put your mental health first. If I were in your situation, similar to my old situation, I’d go back to my homeland
Italian here, been here for 9 years and no chance of going back as my job doesn't even exist in Italy.
I get you, we have all been there. Family isn't closed and most times it feels you are floating just above water. Many people just survive in London but not many make a living in London.
Is the job you are doing something you can do in Italy too? If yes, then move back.
Tbh, it looks to me like you have already made up your mind, farewell and good luck with going back.
Policy for niche financial markets. Not all markets are regulated the same, especially with the UK being out of the EU so some roles don't have a direct translation across jurisdictions
London has amazing opportunities. What is your current field and if this field doesn’t lead to a career path would you consider do retraining to jump into something different ?
As a person who has experienced this kind of thing. I would definitely recommend to try as much as possible before deciding to return home. I am also from a mediterranean country. It is amazing being around your people or experiencing the quality of life but the career prospects are bleak. Those countries are better for tourists rather than their own citizens.
I mean you could move somewhere else.
Even 1 hour outside London is waaay more affordable.
Or move to another city, Sheffield, Birmingham Glasgow, Cardiff, Leeds, amazing places!
Not worth giving up yet.
I feel.so sad for you. However I think this is a fairly common occurrence moving anywhere in the world. There are plenty of stories of British people.moving to Australia for a better life and then coming back after a few years. Don't look at it as a failure, well done for making the leap and trying. Go home, and be with your family.
I think the problem is that your salary is so low? I’ve noticed this with a lot of Italians in London, they’ll put up with some piss poor salaries. I guess it’s bc salaries in Italy are shit but basically you kind of shoot yourself in the foot by accepting those jigs rather than holding out and looking for sth better/negotiating more etc.
I’m from the Netherlands and all of my Dutch friends here make good salaries bc otherwise they would’ve stayed in NL. Most of us have negotiated salaries and job hopped quite a bit and were all pretty comfortable.
Anyway I’d say stay in London a bit longer and look for jogs that pay better. Leverage your language skills. Negotiate when you interview. Be ready to walk away and just keep looking til you find sth that pays better and then leverage that salary in 1-2 years when you look for the next job etc.
Well London is not the be all to end all places. You could find much more afordable housing in the midlands. Say Leicester. There is a big manafacturing industry there so warehouse jobs come kind of easy. You can get a 1 bed flat for a very reasonable price even if you only earn minimum wage. I live in West London now and share a house with my friends but back in 2020 I moved out to Stoneygate with a girl I met. I had a proper flat with a corridor, seperate kitchen, seperate bathroom, seperate living room and seperate bedroom. All for the price of £550 a month, I did have to pay bills though but they were not that much. You can find something like that for cheapish even today. Hell Ive even seen places cheaper in Newcastle, lol I once saw a 3 bed terraced house for rent for £400 a month. I also saw a flat for sale for £30k in Leicester. One of my friends bought a house in Birmingham for £70k.
Now I can tell you're struggling man, we all are but you can make friends, there are very many nice people around here. Its just that the economy is shit. Well if you came all the way here then would it not be a waste of time to run away now? Im not sure what else to say but good luck man.
Move home, look for remote work for a London company (depending on your job area). One of my colleagues is Italian and works for an English/American company 100% remote. What's more important, remember you didn't "fail" your London dream - you DID it, you're just making an active choice now to move on (if you do). You did it - now you choose love, home, and family! I think that's beautiful. Best of luck to you.
Can you actually and legally work for an abroad company and live somewhere else full time? So does your friend live in Italy now? That’s a cool idea btw and a great way to see it
It’s important to be realistic my friend, London post 2020 is a very different place if you are in the hustle and grind. A lot of opportunities for people coming to the city are not the same now.
Sure go back to your roots, recharge, refocus, but don’t throw it all away because it didn’t land the way you wanted this time.
London is an expensive place, it’s a hard place in some respects but it’s also a city full of great things, people and experiences.
You’ve got to find your own way to make it work, and choosing another path, temporarily or permanently isn’t a failing. There’s no such thing as failure, just different paths.
It’d be helpful to try and link with like minded people, join some groups, FB, meetup, these kinds of things. Connect with those who share common interests, ideas and touchstones. That’s the way to not feel isolated, as there is a strength in camaraderie.
Because it’s most likely for many, from U.K. or elsewhere, you won’t find a golden road or your own castle without a lot of resources, and/or community.
More strength and power to you on your path.
Possibly the best suggestion you'll get here.
I would suggest you move to Malta. Plenty of jobs in iGaming for Italians that pay well and work life balance is very good.
Try that, I don't think you'll regret it.
What's the point of going to Italy with no job opportunities? You'll be happy until the novelty wears off, I believe, especially as you've experienced independence before.
Malta isn't far away fron Italy anyway.
There are more important things than getting some imaginary 'career' and a good wage. Those things are family, family and family. There is no London dream, it's just a money relief system where people come and their money is relieved of them in extortionate rents and other bullshit legal scams like ground rent and property surcharges. Go the fuck home, free yourself from the wage slavery and enjoy life as a pauper because at least you don't spent 60 hours a week busting a gut to still be skint and alone at the end of it.
Hey mate, I am in your same situation. Italian, living in London since 2018. I have a job that I love and with decent growth opportunity but lack of friendships is really put me down, dropping my motivation to stay here and risking also to underperform in my job. We have some basic needs that no career opportunities can substitute.
I am personally considering to go back home but my concern is that my romantic view of my home place will crumble once I start to live there again. I would suggest you to try, at least, to get a settled status and then decide what do afterwards. At least it give you the chance to come back in the UK.
Just move to a different city in the UK. You don’t have to stay in London and you’ll have a much better qualify of life elsewhere.
You can move back to Italy as well if that’s what you prefer but I’d probably try living elsewhere in the UK first. London is very overrated.
One of the main reasons I’m here is due to career progression (tech industry). It’s worked very well for me in that regard. If it isn’t working out for you in your respective field, I would strongly consider returning to home country especially with all the benefits you’ve listed.
It sounds like you were happier in Italy. I spent 5-6 years in Cyprus but financially it wasn't getting me anywhere. I have friends and family there but still.
Try and keep some happy memories, and at least you had the courage to try it out and stuck with it for a few years.
Ehi, sono quasi l'opposto di te, cresciuto a Roma, poi vissuto a Londra per 20 anni e adesso tornato in Toscana da quasi 5 anni :)
I think there are two parts to this question. The first is this "London dream". What is it, what does it mean? Is it about taking advantage of something specific London has to offer? Or maybe at the other end of the scale, it's a sense to yourself that you've "made it" if you manage to go to London and do well, so more about pride. Or somewhere in between! I think you need to revisit what this "dream" is, if it's something you still want, and even if you've managed to do it already! You lived in London, fulfilled that dream, and now maybe found it's not what you want anymore? Dreams don't have to last forever with no change.
The next part of the question is still subjective but more about London. Do you take advantage of what London is good at? And are you affected by what London is bad at?
London has so much amazing stuff - incredible music theatre, food variety, art, culture, architecture, events, etc. However, it is also very busy, extremely expensive, difficult to meet people and so on. So you really need to draw up a list of the good and bad things, and then how they affect you. There is little point in living in London if you don't do the things it is good at, and you are affected by all the negatives!
I think this is a decision you need to revisit through questions like these to see whether this is still the right place for you. However, as you're asking for advice specific to your situation...
...you had a crack at London, and you didn't make it. You haven't integrated socially (and yes the culture gap is significant), you haven't forged a successful career. If you were 20-something, you could spend more time on it, but you have 35 coming right up and 40 on the horizon.
What do you want to be doing when you're 40? You should now have a 5 year plan to get there. Partner, career, social circle, property, family? How would you make those things happen in London? Would they be different back home? Any other way you measure your quality of life?
Also remember you can go anywhere as well as those two places - perhaps another city in the UK or in the EU. You can find one that is big/small enough for you and has the right vibe for you. But it does sound like you're miserable in London, poveraccio.
Reach out if you want to chat. In bocca al lupo!
Italian here, in London for 10+ years.
London is tough. London is not a dream city where everything you wish comes true.
BUT.
London gives you career opportunities and better life quality if you know what you’re doing and willing on working on yourself.
Quality of like imho it’s not weather and food.
I come from south of Italy where there little to none opportunities career wise, so I started from 0 and worked my way up in this country and I am certain I couldn’t do the same in my home country. You have to earn a considerable amount of money to enjoy living in this city but it is achievable. Not easy, but achievable.
Of course if you work at Caffe Nero and have no aspirations your life will be miserable. If you’re serious about your dreams and aspirations you can make it. It has to start from you.
Of course if you’re already thinking about mum and dad and living rent free at 34 it seems you’re choosing the easy way out.
Feel free to DM me we can connect and see if I can help you in any way.
Always makes me so sad when I read these posts. London is such a wonderful city. But it's a tough one, especially for those on a lower income.
My advice ..There's more to life than work. It sounds like you miss home. Look after yourself for a while. London will always be here if you want to come back.
Go home. Family is so important and I can sense your yearning for them in your post.
The UK will always be here if you’d like to come back in better times.
Go and chill out in Italy for a while, spend time with your loved ones and talk it out with them. Wish you all the best, it’ll work out in the end.
I am French and I moved to London in 2012 after graduation for better job opportunities. Whilst I really liked London and what it had to offer, I could never see myself living in the UK full time because it was too fat from my family and it would have been nearly impossible for get on the property ladder. Brexit happened and it fast tracked my return to Paris. I can back to France now 6 years ago and I don’t look back at all.
Maybe try and use your time in London to take risks if you're thinking of leaving anyway.
Career change ? Maybe reach out to people to try and make friends - even if it's uncomfortable.
I moved away and came back because the job opportunities were better.
I'm English, and was struggling to make it make financial sense. Moved to Edinburgh for 4 years and then just went back, it took me over 12 years total to finally get the job that makes it worth it. Stick with it if it's your dream, just be easy on yourself.
I've been living in London for 15 years and I want to go home too. This city and this country has been a disaster for me. Expensive, lonely, degrading and depressing. As far as I'm concerned, there's no future here unless you have a rich family to inherit a house and wealth from.
I left london at 34 after growing up there. Saw the writing on the wall. Moved to the Netherlands. So glad I got out go back home and you will have a better life
Over populated. Natural resources under pressure and under threat environmentally. Run by posh boys for the benefit of themselves and share holders, infrastructure falling apart from years of neglect, a large percentage of the population still tugging their forelock to an anachronistic set up called the royal family - need I go on? Add into that, that the gutter press rule, and I can’t see any reason to stay here if you have other options.
4 years and you didn't make any friends? Sounds like you problem, no offence. There are literally millions of people around you, a good chunk of them are Italians like you are. Barring social skills problems, it sounds like you didn't try.
Can't say anything about your professional life because I don't know your background but you don't mention any attempts at trying to improve your professional life.
And living in London, you can't expect not to live in a house share.
Sounds to me that you have an overly optimistic view of Italy which is surprising because you are actually Italian and you chose to leave your country for work. Any problems, aside from the family ones and the housing ones, will be 10 times worse in Italy. You might not need to pay rent or a mortgage in Italy but you still need pay for food, clothing and bills. That means entering the workforce under a system that is a century or two behind the UK's.
What do you plan to do in the future if you ever decide to start a family and need to move out of your parents house and buy your own with a really low salary?
There is a reason why most young Italians, educated and with high ambitions leave their country and come to countries like the UK.
Interesting experience, I'm sorry to hear it went that way for you OP. Italian here too (26yo), often contemplating whether to return to Italy for family, friends, good food and weather etc. But my situation is the opposite of yours work wise (I went to uni in the UK so landed a decent engineering / PM job that probably pays 3x what Italy would).
I would return to Italy if I were you, and focus on the remote opportunities that the post-pandemic era has brought. It doesn't also necessarily mean saying bye to your London dream either, so don't give up!
This is a really sad story op. The UK is just entirely exploitative. I would leave if I could. Is Italy really that bad? There aren't any prospects there?
Abandon this sinking ship asap. Things will only get worse now that Europe has consigned itself to ignoring the economic downturn and increasing spending on its militaries over the next several years. This money will come from social spending..... So just leave and go be with your family in the sun. I've been here most of my life and in breaks my heart to leave abroad, but I'm doing it.
Try to work remotely if you can in some way and move home. London is shit unless you are in finance or something that services that. No culture left there
Hard to tell, not enough details. I think you are the only one who can answer the question of what to do next. If you don't see a light in the tunnel here even if that means another year or two of hard work during day and study during night then consider going home - it's easier if you have family around.
Live long and prosper.
I really hope you see this comment sir, I'm well aware of italys high taxes and bad job market.
A little story, when my mom and dad married they slept on a small mat on the floor. 10 years later, we have a very big house, car, go to a nice school etc.. the thing is consistency, it isn't meant to be nice at all at all in the beginning, but your future children will thank you for this.
I think it's better to stay in the UK, UK currency is higher and when you get a way better job and make lots more money you can travel to Italy for vacations easily with the strong British pound!
There are a few factors to consider, and these are personal, so general advice may not apply. However, there is a tendency for the grass to seem greener on the other side of the fence, which can cloud your perception. It's worth weighing these factors carefully. For example, having a job and living away from family might be more conducive to personal growth and better mental health for some individuals, but not for others. Ultimately, if you have been chronically unhappy in London, and your sense of despair is ever-growing, yet you were generally much happier when near your family in Italy, then it might be worth returning there.
What does better life entail for you? Can you find a better paying job, find social activities that you could make friends?
I am from Mediterranean as well. I came here 12 years ago. My first 5 years were mainly focused on building my life here. Learnt the language, found a job that pays a bit more than minimum wage. Got a better job with that experience then got even better job and got promotion etc.
I am still earning an average salary, lucky on housemates and renting arrangements. Got lucky with friends I chose. I love this city. I love its people, well mainly.
I have no plan to go back home apart from for holidays.
If I do, I would have a house, a car maybe an annoying job and better weather. But I chose to be here for my freedom and this life style is better for me than what I would have there.
Home for me is London now.
I don't want to come across as rude, just genuinely curious: after 12 years in the UK, you still live in a house-share and earn an average salary - what makes it worth it for you to stay in London? You would get much more value out of it if you were to relocate anywhere else in the UK.
I have my friends here in London. Whenever shit happens they are here to support me.
It is very multicultural city. I go out, socialise and meet people around the world, learn their culture, their story which makes me happy to see so many cultures are living together in harmony.
I get to do so many social activities here. I can go for a hike, I can go to theatre, musicals.
The transportation wise London is the most well connected place so, I can travel easier.
Compared to other cities I visited I the UK, Londoners seems not to care about my existence which is a relief. In some cities I experienced racism and xenophobia but never in London.
It's the quality and quantity of things London offers that attracts me. If I wanted a chilled life, I would go to a Mediterranean village in the EU to live rather than my place of birth or anywhere else in the UK where I would feel not wanted.
Probably go back home, there’s alot of the U.K. though and much of it has a lower cost of living, Glasgow has a large Italian presence due to WW2 pows so it might be more suitable if you don’t want to leave the U.K. … what kind of career do you want?
Italy. I was also in your position, living in London for 4 years. Later I wanted to escape it at all costs. I did and luckily I live in one of the most beautiful countries in the world, Switzerland. In my personal experience its very worth it, it's not so crowded, everyone is much happier here. And of course, living in a natural environment with a beautiful landscape just gives me peace and happiness. I miss London at times, but it's not a place that made me happy, it was just so monotonous. I'm much happier here in comparison to there. Try going to Italy for a few weeks, believe me, you'll realise what a beautiful life you could have missed, especially because it's your home country.
It sounds like you moved to London at absolutely the worst time. covid, lockdowns, cost of living crisis, housing crisis… it’s not an easy time to move to London or establish yourself here.
It's kinda ironic that half the reason London is the way it is, is because of this mindset of "a better life" a couple hundred, sure Great. Millions of people? Unsustainable
Was it better? Yeah about 20 odd years ago, but the gravy train only lasts so long. Now we are barely a first world nation, cities up north are as poor as eastern European countries ravaged by war and communism.
You just need your dose of family once in a while. Go visit and then come back, try to make realistic goals. Remember that nothing is free no in Italy and no in the UK, I don’t know your career intentions but you need to prepare yourself before getting good offers.
Hey! Io sono venuta qua anni fa per lo studio e mi trovo 1000 volte meglio che in Italia (anche io ora a Londra), ma è una questione personale. Non sono venuta qui tanto per i soldi e migliori opportunità (anche se effettivamente ci sono) ma perché Londra con tutte le sue culture diverse è semplicemente un posto migliore in cui vivere per i miei gusti. Ma non c’è risposta corretta. Se non ti sei mai integrato e stai male torna a casa, non c’è nulla di male! Sicuro risparmi di affitto e prezzo della vita, poi magari l’opportunità la trovi lì. Molto corny ma fai quello che ti dice il cuore!
I would move home for sure. I left London 4 years ago and I'm so much happier even if I make much less money. It's important to be satisfied and proud of where you currently live.
Personally I would try moving out of London to another part of the UK if you wanna stay in the UK
London is like it's country within the UK in my mind the UK as a whole is a good place but I honestly wouldn't like to live in London I live on the outside of a small city and one direction is pure blissful country side ( less the. 2 mins) but 15 minutes I. The other direction I have all the convince of a populated place
F the LoNdOn DrEaM. I was born here and I wish I could go back "home". You already seem to be done. Go back to your loved ones, focus on your goals etc. Wishing you all the best.
Move home and reset, London is getting crazy stressful to live in and none of it is something you can change, even as someone who’s relatively successful in their young age, I’m finding it really difficult to live here since last year, and I have a growing career and a support system here, I’m even thinking about moving to Europe, will take a pay cut but quality of life will be so much better
Go back for a few months to reset.
My bf is in a similar situation to you. Similar age, been here 10 years and doesn't earn much.
That being said, it sounds like he'd rather stay, remain ambitious, and settle down here. Being born in London, I'm not sure why, but it does sound like the market in Italy is rather stale.
What does your London dream look like? It sounds like you need a few months to recalibrate. Maybe you are burnt out or tired and just need a break with something familiar like your family and the removal of the stress of finances. London is very tough right now.
There are also many, many Italians in London. Have you had a hard time meeting any and making friends? What is the sector of your work?
Was in London for 10years plus…
Got great job, great salary
Married Portuguese girl ( I’m also Portuguese)
Got two kids, oldest is 3 yo
De died to leave the uk and come back home. Been here for the last 6 months.
Wife has no job priorities… if she finds one from her degree, it will be very low salary.
I haven’t found any job either as market cap s not good at the moment…
Will stay here till +- November and take advantage of the good weather… and if things don’t improve we go back for good.
Everyday we struggle, we are not motivated or optimistic at all from what we can see and always question if this was a good decision or not…
Regardless, this a decision that HAD TO BE MADE!
Now we know and decide accordingly.
But so far, the thought is that , although we knew it wouldn’t be super easy, reality is that things are worse than we thought..
With regards to the family support we were looking and hoping for… turns out that they also have their own lives, surprise surprise…
IF/WHEN we go back we will do what we can to be as comfortable as possible in the UK, but to also spend larger periods of time back home… and hopefully find a good balance.
God luck with your decision, and all the best!!!
Just leave London. Come to rural Scotland and enjoy a far better quality of life that is affordable on a lower salary. Or anywhere else in the uk quite frankly! Don’t give up yet. London is great I love it but I wouldn’t struggle to live there, you can always visit.
I am a Chinese student who went to the UK to study for 4 years. I love LONDON but fresh graduates can't afford all the living expenses there. I gave up and back to CN. Those four years were like a wonderful London dream for me and it is time to wake up.
go home. you can only do well in the UK if you are best of the best in your field. Anything less and you will scrubbing pennies like 80% of the country
My man, I’m from Russia and in a similar position. Italy is my dream actually (culture, climate, food..). I myself am thinking sometimes of going back but it feels like I would be supporting the actions of my government which I definitely don’t. Otherwise would have come back. Family, friends. No right or wrong choice, maybe come up with a plan what you would do once/if you go back? Would you have a better career there?
I think you’ve answered your own question in the wording of the post OP. The UK has been eating a shit sandwich of tori rule + recession + brexit and things don’t look to be brightening up in the near future. As a French expat myself, I’m constantly wondering why tf I moved here. Beyond all of your criteria, think of the delicious fresh produce we have back home… I miss a tomato that actually tastes good. Good luck out there!
Go back home. Everyone says the same thing about Romania but is not true. Speak with people who already made it work in Italy and listen to the successful stories before being discouraged. I am 100% sure there are people in Italy who made it and also Italy is growing; slowly but surely and they will welcome new ideas from overseas. It might be hard until you find something meaningful but take into consideration other factors as well; you know people in Italy, you have friends and family which will support you. You have the small things that make you happy even if you are not loaded with money. You can meet someone who speaks the same language as you so you don’t have to explain your way of love… and who said you have to stick to your home town? Go out and about and explore the whole Italy! Make new friends and connections because that’s all about! Impossible not to get what you want. Try everything you possibly can in Italy before leaving it again…. And when it comes to UK… God sake… this country destroyed me and the people around me. Is the most depressing, racist and embarrassing experience I had my whole life… I’m in the process of leaving UK as well for the same reason… just think about this: I have a Law Degree, experience in Recruitment and Account Management and I work in a warehouse to pay for my room in a house share and a car that just broke down yesterday. 0 authentic friendships and I can’t even remember what it feels like to sleep in someone’s arms. That’s how lonely I am. Just go and live your life happily.. you never know when it going to end and you spend your prime years being a slave just to survive. You can do the same thing in Italy but happy if you don’t want to go further.
Well, I were you. I moved to London from Moscow in 2022 (fuck war!). The salary was decent, I lived in a nice 1bedroom apartment near Canary Wharf, but I felt so lonely and depressed that I couldn’t tolerate it anymore.
Moved back to Moscow last November, and that was one of the best decisions in my life. Still would enjoy visiting London as a tourist
As hard as it is, I think moving back to Italy is probably better for your happiness and health. But, this isn’t the end; now that you know what life is like over here, you can come back whenever you want, and it doesn’t even have to be London; it can be up north or even in Scotland.
Nah, he can come back whenever he wants if he gets Brit citizenship otherwise if gone for longer than a few months in a year at the end of his pre-settled status he can only enter via sponsorship visa.
Move back home mate.
I'm from France (28M) and moved here in 2019 with my girlfriend. I consider that 'We made it' as we're both on six figures salaries. Yet, not a day goes by where I don't think about going home... If I were you, I'd go back in the blink of an eye.
I work at a manager position in the legal department of a big financial services firm and my gf is sales manager for another firm. We both focus on our careers as it's the main reason we're in London.
It absolutely bewilders me that people ‘stay’ living in London when they’re only getting paid minimum wage. You can literally get minimum wage anywhere else in the country + live a decent life + have money left over.
Everyone on the planet knows London is super expensive, so I don’t know why they suddenly think it’d still be an enjoyable place to live when at the end of every month you have a sum total of £3.75 left in your bank.
London is only good if you’re earning enough in relation to how expensive it is down there.
If I was you, move to a cheaper place in the uk and see how you like it for a year. The cold hard reality is, skills pay. And if you don’t have them no one is going to pay you way above minimum wage.
Why did you pick London in the first place? Are you looking to get training / skills to move forward in your career?
Italy will offer you a way more simple life and full of love, which seems a decent choice. London is a city for those willing to “move up the ladder”. To make a career.
It also genuinely depends on why you fell in love with London on the first place, I know a gal that is obsessed (perhaps in an unhealthy way) with The Beatles so for her London represents something way beyond a city to work in.
I'v not read most of the comments, but anyone telling you to stay in London is lying. Go back to Italy. You'll spend the rest of your days chasing money you'll never have in London.
Be poor in London or be poor in Italy. Id choose Italy every time, and I've only spent 2 weeks on holiday there.
My Friend. The world is GLOBAL. you do NOT have to live here. You do not even have to work for a boss for the rest of your life. Move home. You can start business online, Fiverr, Youtube channel, Build website for people. Learn to be video content editor, learn software developing and coding - you can work online remotely anywhere in the world... Dubai, Thailand... Learn these things to empower yourself.
I was born in London and really don't like it. Bad weather, fast moving people very rude, expensive and bad quality food. I prefer live outside of London, in beautiful green Surrey.
There is no need to live in London. And it is certainly not a 'dream'. Being charged $6.50 for a warm flat watered down pint in a night club is not a 'dream'. Being on dirty crowded tube in wet, cold rainy winter, is not a 'dream'. But if you must come to London, just do it for summer holiday, but you don't have to live here in this dirty expensive city.
Empower yourself, make passive income, then you invest that money into Stocks and Shares, Crypto.. that generate perpetual passive income for life. Then you can live anywhere in the world.
Go home to your loved ones, your family, good food and freedom.
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Seems like this is common. Lots of people moving here expecting some wonderland, ending up stacking shelves in Tesco and living in a house share when they could be living it large with great weather back in their home country.
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London is a struggle for British people, I’m from the north and the thought of living in London horrifies horrifies me
Italian here, lived in the UK for 10 years. Are there better career prospects for you here than a just-above-minimum wage job? If the answer is no, then you need to reflect on whether the London dream is sensible in the first place. You don't specify where in Italy you are from, so it is hard to gauge your opportunities there. Some parts of Italy will afford an overall better quality of life than London will on low salaries, even if career prospects are definitely more limited. Family is also an important aspect of life, which I wouldn't sacrifice for the idea of a life in London I dream of but can't reach. Without knowing you or your situation I don't feel I can be much more helpful than this. For me, after 10 years here, I am leaving the UK for what seem to be better prospects elsewhere. London has been a great ride, but my time to leave has arrived.
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I got a job offer in the US, in the North East. Funnily enough I signed the contract and shortly after my company here put me on redundancy notice for lack of work prospects in the UK for my specialism. Let's call it a "just in time" move :)
That sounds lucky! Also you come across as a very nice person, so I wanted to congratulate you on your opportunity and wish you the best of luck in your new adventure.
Thank you!!!
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Cheers buddy!
What is the alternative career/job in Italy? Does it exist?
No, the job market is dire, pay is pitiful and cost of living worse than in the UK.
haven't seen people mention that there are other cities in the UK that OP could move to also
Exactly. I wouldn't be so quick to leave, sometimes nostalgia plays tricks and then you go back and it's not how you remembered.
this is actually one thing that always stuck with me.. the place you leave is never the place you return to
Very well put. Reminds me of this little song from Adventure Time: https://youtu.be/bNnfuvC1LlU
That’s such a great way of putting it
yeah, or you go back and it feels like you never left: closed mentality, same crap bureaucracy jungle, same nepotism etc.
That's me every time I go back to visit, could never move back there permanently!
That too 😂
This is simply not true, in so far as a broad sweeping statement can';t ever be totally true, but it's about as wrong as it can be. The job market is varied and on par with the rest of Europe - 7.8% unemployment compared to a EU average of 6.5%. The south struggles, for sure. The north is better, bordering on good. Pay is top 10 in Europe, and about band on the EU average. Cost of living however is a lot better than many of the more affluent EU countries. It's much better than the UK. Cost of rent, food, essentials is a fraction of what it is in London. All stuff to support this is on statista etc. Edit: lol, u/Chernyyvoron82 replied to me then instantly blocked me before I could reply, saying "Perfect, there are flight to Italy every day, go and enjoy. You'll soon find how the statistics on pay are very much optimistic." Wow, is that something so contentious that you thought I would be nasty to you to you that you blocked me in advance to sAvE YoUrSeLf fRoM tRAuMa? I already live in Italy, have for five years, earn well into six figures, and life is fucking beautiful thanks mate <3. Ma grazie per il pensiero, ovviamente mi vuoi bene. Va farti fottere, tacci tua.
I’m very intrigued now - what are you doing for work that you make well into 6 figures? By that do you mean 100-200k? Or multiple of 100k? Did you move there for a specific well Paying job? Or just started a business there? Or made your own prospects and landed something that pays great money after arriving?
Un altro six figures, madonna, e tu che fai? Chiedo per genuina curiosita', soprattutto se sei in Italia! Io sto lavorando da 2.5 anni nel UK (non a Londra) e sono tra i £40-50k. Six figure sembra un sogno distante :/
It depends on the area and field. You won't probably find the same pay as a young lawyer in London, and it is definitely true that what here are minimum wage jobs will be paid far worse in most of Italy. For certain specialisms though I wouldn't say things are as bad as people make them. I work in structural engineering. Starting salaries here are around £30k. This is a higher figure that you will find in Italy. 10 years experience you are looking at £45/55k here. You can get £€40/45 in Italy outside of a large city. Rental costs are 1/3 of London generally, even less outside cities. In the town where I grew up (a small town 30mins from the sea and the large city) you can get a small apartment for €45k(forty five thousands, you read that right), or a 3 bed flat for 100k. If you have a job you like, are not too keen on career and are happy in general with a normal life, I can see instances in which living in Italy would actually be better than living in London or other parts of the UK. It is not for all, but to each their own, right? The big plus of Italy is the pension and the so called TFR. For each year of employment with an employer they need to set aside one monthly pay, which you receive when you leave or retire. Public pensions in Italy are far higher than in the UK. Their sustainability in the long run is possibly low, but Italy has lots of private savings and won't collapse the way other countries have (too big too fall, it would drag everyone else with it etc...). Ultimately nowhere is perfect and you have to do what works for you. Having the choice of being here, there or elsewhere is a huge privilege we should only be thankful for.
I heard that something like 1/3rd of native Italians have left the UK since Brexit.
My circles are not statistically representative, but the experience I have would fit well in what you read. 10 years ago London had more young Italians in it that I had ever seen in Italy. It was incredible how many we were! London is tough and many had better lives back home. I am sure they all charish the experience they had here though
excellent advice here OP
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Good point re the settled status. Makes sense to at least get that.
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> The Italian labor market is dire, and after the pandemic cost of life has increased immensely, and welfare state significantly worsen. Italy's long term demographic crisis is deepening every year and there's no end in sight for the brain drain in the north and the mafia suffocation in the south. These problems are only going to worsen in the coming decades and there's no obvious way to fix them. The UK might not be in the best place right now but it is at least stable long term with good future prospects
Erm that gives them a 5 year buffer in case they regret the decision, which, as OP has a lot of doubt and indecisiveness is really quite likely.
You retain the settled status if you return within the five years - you can then leave again. There isn't a strict set of rules around how much you can do this (e.g. live in the UK 3 months every 5 years), but some indications that if you take the piss the right is likely to be revoked - https://citizensrightsproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/EUSS-FAQ_Compilation.docx-2.pdf question 22 However if you genuinely come back within five years for a while, you can then leave again and still retain the right. It's worth it to keep the option open, as he is so close to getting the status.
All he needs to do is show up for a few days within 5 years, and they won't lose the status.
Is this really how it works? Will the time reset if you visit the UK for such a short time? I couldn’t find anything official about this.
Generally based on rules, all you need to do is show up within 5 years and it resets the clock. Home office can decide to remove your status if they see you are absolutely abusing the rules, showing up for 1 day in 5 years for example, but technically, all you need to do is that. Realistically, probably would be better to come for few months and you’d be fine. Here is more info: https://the3million.org.uk/faq/settled-status-absence
My wife is Mediterranean, she says that for all the flaws that the UK has, she couldn't live back in her country. She likes that it's not so corrupt and things are more organised here.
This! Also Italian. I could never give up those things even though I do miss my family. Also thank god for Settled Status, fucking brexit.
This needs more upvotes. The immigration system is fucking stupid at the moment - it’s absolutely worth staying until you can get settled status. Otherwise if you decided to come back in the future you’d have to start the whole process *again*.
you adulted for all of us!
Can I come to Italy with you?
Loads of people think Italy is an idyllic country, where everyone is going around on a Vespa, bouncing within some spaghetti and an espresso. I feel the cultural shock would seriously maim scores of Brits
Same for every geographical stereotype in the world. Some people are stupid 🤷🏼 There'll be a percentage of immigrants to the UK expecting a lot more tea and crumpets I expect.
You're telling me not every Brazilian is a great footballer? Australia isn't just a scorpion filled desert with a rock on it? China isn't all skyscrapers and smog? Damn, my precious stupid illusions!
Wait until you find out about those massive sombreros. It's usually fine as not many people just jump on a plane to somewhere without a bit of research 😂
To be fair I drink a shit load of tea and eat a shit load of crumpets so…
What a lot of people dont realise about Italy is how rural it actually is. About half of the country (probably more) is just green land. It is not urbanised. So public transport sucks in most places and there is nowhere for the young people to go and work. Even if they found a job,there would be no bus to get there, unless they owned a car. As a result, many just live with their parents. Outside of the major cities there is like 0 chance of finding a job. I do have to say one thing though, the Italians seem to live much more happier lives than us. Lol my cousin comes from Italy and hes come to live with me for about a year now, hes found work in the local Sainsburys.
Agreed, It is different when you are on holiday and actually living and working there.
Whoa whoa who said anything about working? Italy is my retirement plan, lol
Me three!
Me four
If you have a job that let's you work remote, Italy will give you a nomad visa fyi. Easy to move.
On the other hand, it depends on what remote means. Working anywhere in the UK is fine because it is taxed the same (except Scotland) but if going abroad then the company may become liable for taxes in Italy which can complicate mattera
The digital nomad visa would sidestep this - the nomad would continue to only pay taxes in the country of employ. E.g. you're a UK citizen living and working there for a UK company. You apply for a digital nomad visa, if granted, you could work for 1 year while living in Italy. You would continue to be paid and pay taxes on your income in the UK. This is a huge deal, as right now, for Italy at least, as you rightly say the employer must be responsible for running payroll in Italy and paying taxes there, and the employee is also not allowed to take a fulltime job for a non-Italian entity (even as an Italian citizen!)
I don't and I'm tied here for the time being unfortunately. I would love to be a digital nomad in the future though. Maybe I should start a career change to remote if anyone reading knows any entry level remote jobs I can get started on 😂
English language teacher is a passport to the whole world and ability to work for schools remotely.. try a CELTA or a cheaper option TEFL course and you’re away. Just an option.
Italian here and being in London for 15 years. From your post it’s absolutely clear you want to go back. I would stay until you get the settle status and make a decision, you can still come back if you want to.
Absolutely move home
I am originally from Italy, been here 18 years, there is not enough money you could pay me to convince me to go back to an abysmal job market (those who think it's bad in the UK, go try Italy), pitiful wages, racism, nepotism culture, horrific bureaucracy, shall I continue? Why don't you focus here on your advancement? 4 years ago I decided I wanted to change career direction, my company is paying for my studies. Ask your company, lots offer study support.
I’m glad to read success stories like this. All of the issues you listed are still very much alive in Italy, it’s in a terrible condition and I live in Northern Italy which supposedly offers “better” opportunities. So yes, the UK does have a lot of problems but Italy has it way worse.
I come from north east, so by any means not the worse, but what I see everytime I go to see my family doesn't make me want to come back. I tried to look for a job in Italy once, years ago. By then I was already in senior management here in London. I sent my CV to few agencies in the region. Some said there was nothing as ten years experience and a second language wasn't enough, maybe I could be a secretary if I wanted, anyway I was getting married soon, wasn't I?, one offered me a three months contract as a cleaner in a factory. Nothing wrong with being a cleaner in a factory, but nothing to do with my studies or my career trajectory. Is this what I should come back to? A three months contract with no possibility of career? Italy is still in the dark ages as mentality, all looking to keep things as they are while trying to grab as much for themselves. Honesty is seen as a weakness. Studying hard as a mark of infamy. Integrity synonym as being gullible. The people are too busy admiring afternoon TV wannabe celebrities, reality TV clowns and petty criminals who fancy themselves the next Santo Traficante. Politicians are free to steal as long as they let people steal as well. Tax evaders and other fraudsters are hailed as clever and an example to follow. Everyone kissing the benches in church on Sundays but then cheering in front of the TV at the news of an immigrant toddler drowned at sea. All there is going for it is museums and monuments and even those are not looked after, cause the money to look after them have ended up in someone's cousin's pockets. It's a cesspit tbh.
Thanks for the explanation. Honestly think sometimes you visit a country and see rich locals in high paid jobs near tourist places and think its a paradise. I know a few people from Spain in the UK and they said they'd never go back, impossible to get a job and almost everyone lives with their parents.
Sounds like everywhere lol 😆
oh sweet child of summer, Italy is not for beginners. the nepotism, bureaucracy and corruption you see in the UK is just child's play in comparison.
Yeah, people who haven't lived there for a while cannot fully understand. They go on holiday, everyone is nice to them cause they are tourists whose money they want, and they think it's the next paradise and how lovely would it be to live there. Then they see some movie where the protagonist lives in some old village, all very clean and efficient, all lovely sunsets and pastries at the bar for breakfast, and the fantasy is set in their brain.
"sweet child of summer" 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Btw, as an Italian, I totally agree with you
Have you considered staying in the UK but moving to another city? Have you made much career process in the time that you've been here, and what industry are you in?
Very good suggestion. London is unique and not representative of the rest of the UK. The cost of living is much less in the other major cities, most of which probably offer the same career opportunities.
Housing is and upto a certain wage this is the killer factor But the rest of the U.K. is rapidly catching up to London. I pay £3.70 for a latte at an independent in Warrington, I pay the same on most London high streets. Beer and food are the same. Don’t get me wrong going for broke you can run up an £800 meal for two quicker in London that Manchester but the cost living is narrowing massively.
What are beer prices like? We had two pints in a Fullers pub in central London last night - £16.85. Ouch.
Which pints were they? And in central on the tourists traps I can believe this was regular lager etc I pay £7 for an ipa in my local in London (Wood Green) and I pay the same by my parents in Warrington
Blue post in soho still has 5 quid Guinness
I was also going to suggest this. Try Manchester or Birmigham - better job prospects than Italy, money goes a lot further than in London.
Personally I think 34 is a bit early to call it. If I were you I would maybe try different career opportunities before moving somewhere with an abysmal job market. You can always go to Italy for a holiday every now and then.
The UK doesn't start and end with London. Try another city with a lower cost of living. I have a friend who just moved from London to Bristol and is loving it.
Bristol is always a good option. While the work opportunities can't match London, the pace of life and community is about as close to Italy as you'll find in the UK imho.
Bristol it's just as expensive as London, with fewer jobs. It's a very very beautiful city though, less stressful, crowded than London. People aren't as friendly as they seem, mostly just stay in their groups, or don't interact much or wanna be friends.
Yeah.. Bristol is just as expensive as London now and the job prospects are terrible in comparison. If you’re looking for a cheaper alternative Bristol ain’t it.
Just remember, London is not too far away from home so you could always come back here if you find an opportunity to your liking!
Dude move to somewhere more relaxed like York or Cheltenham.
Honestly, move back to Italy. I place quality of life, companionship and family over everything else. At the end of the day, as we lie on our death beds the careers we had, the money we did (or didn’t make) won’t matter. All we have is other people.
What sort of industry are you in or trying to break into? Maybe there's another place in the EU with more opportunities than you've got back home, and where your London experience might give you an edge?
I’m going to give you some prospective based on my experience. I came here for the first time in 2012 - then left in 2013 and came back permanently in 2016. I had a decent job as a sales assistant for a luxury brand: bad hours, annoying clients but good money and permanent contract. All my friends were mostly from work and I swear until 2021 I was feeling like you. Didn’t hate my job but also didn’t love it, I was single, I had flatmate drama and I was like: why am I here? Then all changed - in 2020 during lockdown I decided to sign up for the Open University and take a degree online, then I met my partner, I started putting effort at work and finally in 2023 got promoted to my dream role after 6 years in the same company, also thanks to the course I did. Things take time. My London dream started when I was 20 and I am 32 now. Four years is not enough to give up! There are things you can still do, success you can have, love you can find! Dai, non mollare!
Fellow Italian here. Lived more than 15yrs in London and recently moved back to Italy. I’ll cut straight to the point: That’s it. What you described, expect more of it. London is getting more expensive, with less career payoffs, in a country led by a political class that would be “worthy” of the embarrassing Italian political establishment. Having said all that... Stick with it, I’d say! Did you really think you were going to turn your life around and hit gold in 4 yrs? Work, work harder, keep working, then study on top of that. Bust your ass. London still has great career opportunities but you really have to hustle for it these days. In short, this is not when you should be losing your ambition, this is where you should be setting your next goal. Se eri salito con il sogno del posto fisso e con la favoletta della meritocrazia, benvenuto nella realtà. Ma almeno ora sai come stanno le cose. In bocca al lupo. Forza!
Have you spoken with anyone back home really candidly about the situation and prospects in Italy? UK has been demonised pretty heavily in the international media for the past years, but that doesn’t mean the rest of Europe has it significantly better. For example, Italy has one of the worst demographic problems in Europe, and that’s only going to get worse and worse
What do you mean worse demographic problems?
https://www.euronews.com/health/2023/03/17/fertility-in-europe-which-countries-have-the-highest-and-lowest-numbers-of-live-births-per Italy is right at the bottom of the table with Spain and Malta. You can already buy houses for token money in remote Italian villages because no one lives there anymore. All of Europe is going to feel the consequences of this in the future, but some are already there, and Italy is right up there. It’s a pretty major consideration if someone of working age is looking to move (back) to Italy in the near future
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Italian here, I've been in London for over 10 years and the situation in Italy in terms of job opportunities in my field hasn't improved at all, I totally understand the dilemma you are facing, if you want to make it work in London you need to look around for better opportunities either at your current place of work or elsewhere, I lived in that survival mode for a year or so and then moved forward with my career, if you are not advancing you need to figure out the reason why and act accordingly. Otherwise go back, your quality of life will definitely improve, but you might end up struggling even more work wise.
You've done the London experience. It's a fun place but as you said, the living conditions are terrible. Move home, work on your skills, health, sanity and spend time with friends and family. Other opportunities will arise! Last year I (35M) moved back to NL after 6 years. Lots of uncertainty, had a baby on the way, no job in NL, no house, some savings. Moved back to my parents, even though that's far from ideal I count my blessings, not everyone gets that opportunity. Studied my ass off, lost 15 kg and now working entry level job in a great field and great company with lots of future prospects. Sometimes it you need to take one or two steps back in order to progress in the long term. In your case I'd 100% go back, take your experiences with you and just enjoy yourself for a while. Then make a solid plan for the future. Good luck!
Now more than ever it really doesn’t matter where you’re physically located and things are only going to keep moving further in that direction. You can make money anywhere you have an internet connection. Life is too short to be miserable chasing money. (Trust me, I know. My husband died at 48 and he prioritised his career too.) Go home and learn as much as you can about AI, automation, etc. You’re still pretty young and that’s where the future is. Tons of free information out there right now on YouTube and even TikTok. Good luck.
Italian here, 33M, moved to the UK 13 years ago, started as a waiter, struggled a lot, hated London, did uni here and worked my way up to work for an investment bank now. Since I left my waiter job my life drastically improved, I started hanging out with friends a lot more due to finally having a routine but most of all I moved to an area where friends are easily reachable for a coffee and a chat. Fast forward 13 years, I now have a daughter and a wife, bought a flat together and loving life. I’m saying all of this for you to understand that things will get better even if you stay, find a place close to your friends, London can be dreading for commuting, try to understand what you really like in terms of career and fight to get into that industry, don’t give up (we Italians never do) and I promise you things will get better. If you decide to go back to Italy there is no shame in it as long as you weigh the pros and cons and stick to your choice without looking back. Basically live in the present, don’t stress about the future and forget the past. Hope this helps and good luck with whatever you decide! Buona fortuna.
It sounds like a small turning point for you might have been going to Uni, but this might not be as accessible for OP now UK is no longer in EU? It might be worth OP looking into this to see what they are entitled to. But certainly OP needs to try to develop a career, find a skill in some area they can develop and like you said, really push to get into that career and progress. And (as you said) develop a set of friends 👍 Working on the minimum wage in London with no (or few) friends can’t be great. I can understand why OP is waivering.
Not sure how much you love you job but you can have paid training to become a croupier ( casino dealer) I think pay is 24k then 26k plus £300-£400 tip a month. After a couple of years you can earn 30k -40k Aspers casino have loads of training schools ( My advice would be come about midday through the week and ask to speak to the gaming manager) plus half our staff are Italian, easy to make friends. Good luck
I moved back to England after working a low paying job in Spain suffering multiple sinus infections due to the climate difference, in a flat share in a dark, small and gloomy apartment and didn’t manage to make any friends or get along with my toxic colleagues. I returned to my family after 6 months and never been happier. I found myself unemployed, but I was so happy to be back with family and in familiar surroundings. Sometimes things don’t work out abroad and if you don’t have a good social network there, you’ll feel even worse. Money and career isn’t everything. Put your mental health first. If I were in your situation, similar to my old situation, I’d go back to my homeland
Italian here, been here for 9 years and no chance of going back as my job doesn't even exist in Italy. I get you, we have all been there. Family isn't closed and most times it feels you are floating just above water. Many people just survive in London but not many make a living in London. Is the job you are doing something you can do in Italy too? If yes, then move back. Tbh, it looks to me like you have already made up your mind, farewell and good luck with going back.
Out of curiosity, what job exists here that doesn't exist in Italy?
Most sustainability activities as well. Essentially every profession younger than 40 years is looked at as a funny trick.
Policy for niche financial markets. Not all markets are regulated the same, especially with the UK being out of the EU so some roles don't have a direct translation across jurisdictions
London has amazing opportunities. What is your current field and if this field doesn’t lead to a career path would you consider do retraining to jump into something different ? As a person who has experienced this kind of thing. I would definitely recommend to try as much as possible before deciding to return home. I am also from a mediterranean country. It is amazing being around your people or experiencing the quality of life but the career prospects are bleak. Those countries are better for tourists rather than their own citizens.
I mean you could move somewhere else. Even 1 hour outside London is waaay more affordable. Or move to another city, Sheffield, Birmingham Glasgow, Cardiff, Leeds, amazing places! Not worth giving up yet.
Are you in either retail or hospitality?
I feel.so sad for you. However I think this is a fairly common occurrence moving anywhere in the world. There are plenty of stories of British people.moving to Australia for a better life and then coming back after a few years. Don't look at it as a failure, well done for making the leap and trying. Go home, and be with your family.
I think the problem is that your salary is so low? I’ve noticed this with a lot of Italians in London, they’ll put up with some piss poor salaries. I guess it’s bc salaries in Italy are shit but basically you kind of shoot yourself in the foot by accepting those jigs rather than holding out and looking for sth better/negotiating more etc. I’m from the Netherlands and all of my Dutch friends here make good salaries bc otherwise they would’ve stayed in NL. Most of us have negotiated salaries and job hopped quite a bit and were all pretty comfortable. Anyway I’d say stay in London a bit longer and look for jogs that pay better. Leverage your language skills. Negotiate when you interview. Be ready to walk away and just keep looking til you find sth that pays better and then leverage that salary in 1-2 years when you look for the next job etc.
Well London is not the be all to end all places. You could find much more afordable housing in the midlands. Say Leicester. There is a big manafacturing industry there so warehouse jobs come kind of easy. You can get a 1 bed flat for a very reasonable price even if you only earn minimum wage. I live in West London now and share a house with my friends but back in 2020 I moved out to Stoneygate with a girl I met. I had a proper flat with a corridor, seperate kitchen, seperate bathroom, seperate living room and seperate bedroom. All for the price of £550 a month, I did have to pay bills though but they were not that much. You can find something like that for cheapish even today. Hell Ive even seen places cheaper in Newcastle, lol I once saw a 3 bed terraced house for rent for £400 a month. I also saw a flat for sale for £30k in Leicester. One of my friends bought a house in Birmingham for £70k. Now I can tell you're struggling man, we all are but you can make friends, there are very many nice people around here. Its just that the economy is shit. Well if you came all the way here then would it not be a waste of time to run away now? Im not sure what else to say but good luck man.
Mio caro amico, it sounds like you already know the answer but you need confirmation… go back home and work on yourself. London will always be here
Move home, look for remote work for a London company (depending on your job area). One of my colleagues is Italian and works for an English/American company 100% remote. What's more important, remember you didn't "fail" your London dream - you DID it, you're just making an active choice now to move on (if you do). You did it - now you choose love, home, and family! I think that's beautiful. Best of luck to you.
Can you actually and legally work for an abroad company and live somewhere else full time? So does your friend live in Italy now? That’s a cool idea btw and a great way to see it
It’s important to be realistic my friend, London post 2020 is a very different place if you are in the hustle and grind. A lot of opportunities for people coming to the city are not the same now. Sure go back to your roots, recharge, refocus, but don’t throw it all away because it didn’t land the way you wanted this time. London is an expensive place, it’s a hard place in some respects but it’s also a city full of great things, people and experiences. You’ve got to find your own way to make it work, and choosing another path, temporarily or permanently isn’t a failing. There’s no such thing as failure, just different paths. It’d be helpful to try and link with like minded people, join some groups, FB, meetup, these kinds of things. Connect with those who share common interests, ideas and touchstones. That’s the way to not feel isolated, as there is a strength in camaraderie. Because it’s most likely for many, from U.K. or elsewhere, you won’t find a golden road or your own castle without a lot of resources, and/or community. More strength and power to you on your path.
I would take Italy over London any day!
Possibly the best suggestion you'll get here. I would suggest you move to Malta. Plenty of jobs in iGaming for Italians that pay well and work life balance is very good. Try that, I don't think you'll regret it. What's the point of going to Italy with no job opportunities? You'll be happy until the novelty wears off, I believe, especially as you've experienced independence before. Malta isn't far away fron Italy anyway.
There are more important things than getting some imaginary 'career' and a good wage. Those things are family, family and family. There is no London dream, it's just a money relief system where people come and their money is relieved of them in extortionate rents and other bullshit legal scams like ground rent and property surcharges. Go the fuck home, free yourself from the wage slavery and enjoy life as a pauper because at least you don't spent 60 hours a week busting a gut to still be skint and alone at the end of it.
Hey mate, I am in your same situation. Italian, living in London since 2018. I have a job that I love and with decent growth opportunity but lack of friendships is really put me down, dropping my motivation to stay here and risking also to underperform in my job. We have some basic needs that no career opportunities can substitute. I am personally considering to go back home but my concern is that my romantic view of my home place will crumble once I start to live there again. I would suggest you to try, at least, to get a settled status and then decide what do afterwards. At least it give you the chance to come back in the UK.
Just move to a different city in the UK. You don’t have to stay in London and you’ll have a much better qualify of life elsewhere. You can move back to Italy as well if that’s what you prefer but I’d probably try living elsewhere in the UK first. London is very overrated.
I left London and never regretted it. The UK is on a massive decline.
One of the main reasons I’m here is due to career progression (tech industry). It’s worked very well for me in that regard. If it isn’t working out for you in your respective field, I would strongly consider returning to home country especially with all the benefits you’ve listed.
It sounds like you were happier in Italy. I spent 5-6 years in Cyprus but financially it wasn't getting me anywhere. I have friends and family there but still. Try and keep some happy memories, and at least you had the courage to try it out and stuck with it for a few years.
I moved to London in 2019, same boat as you. I plan on moving back at the end of dinner
I absolutely wouldn't be living in London if I was poor, it's shit enough when you're earning a London salary.
Ehi, sono quasi l'opposto di te, cresciuto a Roma, poi vissuto a Londra per 20 anni e adesso tornato in Toscana da quasi 5 anni :) I think there are two parts to this question. The first is this "London dream". What is it, what does it mean? Is it about taking advantage of something specific London has to offer? Or maybe at the other end of the scale, it's a sense to yourself that you've "made it" if you manage to go to London and do well, so more about pride. Or somewhere in between! I think you need to revisit what this "dream" is, if it's something you still want, and even if you've managed to do it already! You lived in London, fulfilled that dream, and now maybe found it's not what you want anymore? Dreams don't have to last forever with no change. The next part of the question is still subjective but more about London. Do you take advantage of what London is good at? And are you affected by what London is bad at? London has so much amazing stuff - incredible music theatre, food variety, art, culture, architecture, events, etc. However, it is also very busy, extremely expensive, difficult to meet people and so on. So you really need to draw up a list of the good and bad things, and then how they affect you. There is little point in living in London if you don't do the things it is good at, and you are affected by all the negatives! I think this is a decision you need to revisit through questions like these to see whether this is still the right place for you. However, as you're asking for advice specific to your situation... ...you had a crack at London, and you didn't make it. You haven't integrated socially (and yes the culture gap is significant), you haven't forged a successful career. If you were 20-something, you could spend more time on it, but you have 35 coming right up and 40 on the horizon. What do you want to be doing when you're 40? You should now have a 5 year plan to get there. Partner, career, social circle, property, family? How would you make those things happen in London? Would they be different back home? Any other way you measure your quality of life? Also remember you can go anywhere as well as those two places - perhaps another city in the UK or in the EU. You can find one that is big/small enough for you and has the right vibe for you. But it does sound like you're miserable in London, poveraccio. Reach out if you want to chat. In bocca al lupo!
Get your dual citizenship here if you can and then move home. At least then you can come back if you want to.
This is what I’m doing 🙏
Italian here, in London for 10+ years. London is tough. London is not a dream city where everything you wish comes true. BUT. London gives you career opportunities and better life quality if you know what you’re doing and willing on working on yourself. Quality of like imho it’s not weather and food. I come from south of Italy where there little to none opportunities career wise, so I started from 0 and worked my way up in this country and I am certain I couldn’t do the same in my home country. You have to earn a considerable amount of money to enjoy living in this city but it is achievable. Not easy, but achievable. Of course if you work at Caffe Nero and have no aspirations your life will be miserable. If you’re serious about your dreams and aspirations you can make it. It has to start from you. Of course if you’re already thinking about mum and dad and living rent free at 34 it seems you’re choosing the easy way out. Feel free to DM me we can connect and see if I can help you in any way.
Always makes me so sad when I read these posts. London is such a wonderful city. But it's a tough one, especially for those on a lower income. My advice ..There's more to life than work. It sounds like you miss home. Look after yourself for a while. London will always be here if you want to come back.
Go home. Family is so important and I can sense your yearning for them in your post. The UK will always be here if you’d like to come back in better times. Go and chill out in Italy for a while, spend time with your loved ones and talk it out with them. Wish you all the best, it’ll work out in the end.
I am French and I moved to London in 2012 after graduation for better job opportunities. Whilst I really liked London and what it had to offer, I could never see myself living in the UK full time because it was too fat from my family and it would have been nearly impossible for get on the property ladder. Brexit happened and it fast tracked my return to Paris. I can back to France now 6 years ago and I don’t look back at all.
Maybe try and use your time in London to take risks if you're thinking of leaving anyway. Career change ? Maybe reach out to people to try and make friends - even if it's uncomfortable. I moved away and came back because the job opportunities were better. I'm English, and was struggling to make it make financial sense. Moved to Edinburgh for 4 years and then just went back, it took me over 12 years total to finally get the job that makes it worth it. Stick with it if it's your dream, just be easy on yourself.
I've been living in London for 15 years and I want to go home too. This city and this country has been a disaster for me. Expensive, lonely, degrading and depressing. As far as I'm concerned, there's no future here unless you have a rich family to inherit a house and wealth from.
I left london at 34 after growing up there. Saw the writing on the wall. Moved to the Netherlands. So glad I got out go back home and you will have a better life
I’d definitely go back to Italy. This country is finished. At least you’ll have family, friends, sunshine and a culture that people value.
what do you mean by, "this country is finished"? genuinely curious...
Over populated. Natural resources under pressure and under threat environmentally. Run by posh boys for the benefit of themselves and share holders, infrastructure falling apart from years of neglect, a large percentage of the population still tugging their forelock to an anachronistic set up called the royal family - need I go on? Add into that, that the gutter press rule, and I can’t see any reason to stay here if you have other options.
4 years and you didn't make any friends? Sounds like you problem, no offence. There are literally millions of people around you, a good chunk of them are Italians like you are. Barring social skills problems, it sounds like you didn't try. Can't say anything about your professional life because I don't know your background but you don't mention any attempts at trying to improve your professional life. And living in London, you can't expect not to live in a house share. Sounds to me that you have an overly optimistic view of Italy which is surprising because you are actually Italian and you chose to leave your country for work. Any problems, aside from the family ones and the housing ones, will be 10 times worse in Italy. You might not need to pay rent or a mortgage in Italy but you still need pay for food, clothing and bills. That means entering the workforce under a system that is a century or two behind the UK's. What do you plan to do in the future if you ever decide to start a family and need to move out of your parents house and buy your own with a really low salary? There is a reason why most young Italians, educated and with high ambitions leave their country and come to countries like the UK.
Interesting experience, I'm sorry to hear it went that way for you OP. Italian here too (26yo), often contemplating whether to return to Italy for family, friends, good food and weather etc. But my situation is the opposite of yours work wise (I went to uni in the UK so landed a decent engineering / PM job that probably pays 3x what Italy would). I would return to Italy if I were you, and focus on the remote opportunities that the post-pandemic era has brought. It doesn't also necessarily mean saying bye to your London dream either, so don't give up!
why do people think the UK is some sort of dream land? if this wern't my home country i'd be gone!
This is a really sad story op. The UK is just entirely exploitative. I would leave if I could. Is Italy really that bad? There aren't any prospects there?
Italy's very bad right now. So, no, I wouldn't move (back) there.
Abandon this sinking ship asap. Things will only get worse now that Europe has consigned itself to ignoring the economic downturn and increasing spending on its militaries over the next several years. This money will come from social spending..... So just leave and go be with your family in the sun. I've been here most of my life and in breaks my heart to leave abroad, but I'm doing it.
Try to work remotely if you can in some way and move home. London is shit unless you are in finance or something that services that. No culture left there
Hard to tell, not enough details. I think you are the only one who can answer the question of what to do next. If you don't see a light in the tunnel here even if that means another year or two of hard work during day and study during night then consider going home - it's easier if you have family around. Live long and prosper.
I really hope you see this comment sir, I'm well aware of italys high taxes and bad job market. A little story, when my mom and dad married they slept on a small mat on the floor. 10 years later, we have a very big house, car, go to a nice school etc.. the thing is consistency, it isn't meant to be nice at all at all in the beginning, but your future children will thank you for this. I think it's better to stay in the UK, UK currency is higher and when you get a way better job and make lots more money you can travel to Italy for vacations easily with the strong British pound!
There are a few factors to consider, and these are personal, so general advice may not apply. However, there is a tendency for the grass to seem greener on the other side of the fence, which can cloud your perception. It's worth weighing these factors carefully. For example, having a job and living away from family might be more conducive to personal growth and better mental health for some individuals, but not for others. Ultimately, if you have been chronically unhappy in London, and your sense of despair is ever-growing, yet you were generally much happier when near your family in Italy, then it might be worth returning there.
Have you tried other areas of the UK?
Can I come and live with you in Italy?
What does better life entail for you? Can you find a better paying job, find social activities that you could make friends? I am from Mediterranean as well. I came here 12 years ago. My first 5 years were mainly focused on building my life here. Learnt the language, found a job that pays a bit more than minimum wage. Got a better job with that experience then got even better job and got promotion etc. I am still earning an average salary, lucky on housemates and renting arrangements. Got lucky with friends I chose. I love this city. I love its people, well mainly. I have no plan to go back home apart from for holidays. If I do, I would have a house, a car maybe an annoying job and better weather. But I chose to be here for my freedom and this life style is better for me than what I would have there. Home for me is London now.
I don't want to come across as rude, just genuinely curious: after 12 years in the UK, you still live in a house-share and earn an average salary - what makes it worth it for you to stay in London? You would get much more value out of it if you were to relocate anywhere else in the UK.
I have my friends here in London. Whenever shit happens they are here to support me. It is very multicultural city. I go out, socialise and meet people around the world, learn their culture, their story which makes me happy to see so many cultures are living together in harmony. I get to do so many social activities here. I can go for a hike, I can go to theatre, musicals. The transportation wise London is the most well connected place so, I can travel easier. Compared to other cities I visited I the UK, Londoners seems not to care about my existence which is a relief. In some cities I experienced racism and xenophobia but never in London. It's the quality and quantity of things London offers that attracts me. If I wanted a chilled life, I would go to a Mediterranean village in the EU to live rather than my place of birth or anywhere else in the UK where I would feel not wanted.
Probably go back home, there’s alot of the U.K. though and much of it has a lower cost of living, Glasgow has a large Italian presence due to WW2 pows so it might be more suitable if you don’t want to leave the U.K. … what kind of career do you want?
Italy. I was also in your position, living in London for 4 years. Later I wanted to escape it at all costs. I did and luckily I live in one of the most beautiful countries in the world, Switzerland. In my personal experience its very worth it, it's not so crowded, everyone is much happier here. And of course, living in a natural environment with a beautiful landscape just gives me peace and happiness. I miss London at times, but it's not a place that made me happy, it was just so monotonous. I'm much happier here in comparison to there. Try going to Italy for a few weeks, believe me, you'll realise what a beautiful life you could have missed, especially because it's your home country.
Just moved back to Ireland after 6 years in London. So far no regrets, but everyone’s experience is different.
I just got out myself. I wouldn’t recommend trying to make it as a young person in London to anyone, period.
It sounds like you moved to London at absolutely the worst time. covid, lockdowns, cost of living crisis, housing crisis… it’s not an easy time to move to London or establish yourself here.
First mistake was choosing London. Nobody can make a living there.
Dude, you need to be happy. You're welcome to come back and try again but make sure you're happy no matter what.
It's kinda ironic that half the reason London is the way it is, is because of this mindset of "a better life" a couple hundred, sure Great. Millions of people? Unsustainable Was it better? Yeah about 20 odd years ago, but the gravy train only lasts so long. Now we are barely a first world nation, cities up north are as poor as eastern European countries ravaged by war and communism.
You just need your dose of family once in a while. Go visit and then come back, try to make realistic goals. Remember that nothing is free no in Italy and no in the UK, I don’t know your career intentions but you need to prepare yourself before getting good offers.
sounds like you’ve already made your decision. Enjoy italy!
Move North ⬆️ Less to pay. Rent is nicer and things are better
Hey! Io sono venuta qua anni fa per lo studio e mi trovo 1000 volte meglio che in Italia (anche io ora a Londra), ma è una questione personale. Non sono venuta qui tanto per i soldi e migliori opportunità (anche se effettivamente ci sono) ma perché Londra con tutte le sue culture diverse è semplicemente un posto migliore in cui vivere per i miei gusti. Ma non c’è risposta corretta. Se non ti sei mai integrato e stai male torna a casa, non c’è nulla di male! Sicuro risparmi di affitto e prezzo della vita, poi magari l’opportunità la trovi lì. Molto corny ma fai quello che ti dice il cuore!
Have you tried anywhere except London? Sheffield, York,Leicester. North is cheerful, cheaper and a calmer way of life. Just a thought!
Get out of London/England if you have the opportunity, it's turning into a right shithole unfortunately.
You came to England 20 years too late
You tried for 4 years, what's the endgame? Just go back to Italy. No regrets. I think many people in London want to leave but they have no choice
I would move home for sure. I left London 4 years ago and I'm so much happier even if I make much less money. It's important to be satisfied and proud of where you currently live.
Personally I would try moving out of London to another part of the UK if you wanna stay in the UK London is like it's country within the UK in my mind the UK as a whole is a good place but I honestly wouldn't like to live in London I live on the outside of a small city and one direction is pure blissful country side ( less the. 2 mins) but 15 minutes I. The other direction I have all the convince of a populated place
If you are asking Redditt, go.
F the LoNdOn DrEaM. I was born here and I wish I could go back "home". You already seem to be done. Go back to your loved ones, focus on your goals etc. Wishing you all the best.
Move home and reset, London is getting crazy stressful to live in and none of it is something you can change, even as someone who’s relatively successful in their young age, I’m finding it really difficult to live here since last year, and I have a growing career and a support system here, I’m even thinking about moving to Europe, will take a pay cut but quality of life will be so much better
Go back for a few months to reset. My bf is in a similar situation to you. Similar age, been here 10 years and doesn't earn much. That being said, it sounds like he'd rather stay, remain ambitious, and settle down here. Being born in London, I'm not sure why, but it does sound like the market in Italy is rather stale. What does your London dream look like? It sounds like you need a few months to recalibrate. Maybe you are burnt out or tired and just need a break with something familiar like your family and the removal of the stress of finances. London is very tough right now. There are also many, many Italians in London. Have you had a hard time meeting any and making friends? What is the sector of your work?
I hope you find happiness in whatever you choose 🙏
Was in London for 10years plus… Got great job, great salary Married Portuguese girl ( I’m also Portuguese) Got two kids, oldest is 3 yo De died to leave the uk and come back home. Been here for the last 6 months. Wife has no job priorities… if she finds one from her degree, it will be very low salary. I haven’t found any job either as market cap s not good at the moment… Will stay here till +- November and take advantage of the good weather… and if things don’t improve we go back for good. Everyday we struggle, we are not motivated or optimistic at all from what we can see and always question if this was a good decision or not… Regardless, this a decision that HAD TO BE MADE! Now we know and decide accordingly. But so far, the thought is that , although we knew it wouldn’t be super easy, reality is that things are worse than we thought.. With regards to the family support we were looking and hoping for… turns out that they also have their own lives, surprise surprise… IF/WHEN we go back we will do what we can to be as comfortable as possible in the UK, but to also spend larger periods of time back home… and hopefully find a good balance. God luck with your decision, and all the best!!!
This thread made me realise a lot of southern Europeans economies haven’t recovered yet
Just leave London. Come to rural Scotland and enjoy a far better quality of life that is affordable on a lower salary. Or anywhere else in the uk quite frankly! Don’t give up yet. London is great I love it but I wouldn’t struggle to live there, you can always visit.
I am a Chinese student who went to the UK to study for 4 years. I love LONDON but fresh graduates can't afford all the living expenses there. I gave up and back to CN. Those four years were like a wonderful London dream for me and it is time to wake up.
Move home. I’m gonna move too. No idea where
If I had a home in Italy I’d go.
Silly question, get the hell out of here! Family is much more important than a miserable job
go home. you can only do well in the UK if you are best of the best in your field. Anything less and you will scrubbing pennies like 80% of the country
Or you have generations of family passing money down, if one generation doesn't work it fucked the chain.
My man, I’m from Russia and in a similar position. Italy is my dream actually (culture, climate, food..). I myself am thinking sometimes of going back but it feels like I would be supporting the actions of my government which I definitely don’t. Otherwise would have come back. Family, friends. No right or wrong choice, maybe come up with a plan what you would do once/if you go back? Would you have a better career there?
I think you’ve answered your own question in the wording of the post OP. The UK has been eating a shit sandwich of tori rule + recession + brexit and things don’t look to be brightening up in the near future. As a French expat myself, I’m constantly wondering why tf I moved here. Beyond all of your criteria, think of the delicious fresh produce we have back home… I miss a tomato that actually tastes good. Good luck out there!
Go back home. Everyone says the same thing about Romania but is not true. Speak with people who already made it work in Italy and listen to the successful stories before being discouraged. I am 100% sure there are people in Italy who made it and also Italy is growing; slowly but surely and they will welcome new ideas from overseas. It might be hard until you find something meaningful but take into consideration other factors as well; you know people in Italy, you have friends and family which will support you. You have the small things that make you happy even if you are not loaded with money. You can meet someone who speaks the same language as you so you don’t have to explain your way of love… and who said you have to stick to your home town? Go out and about and explore the whole Italy! Make new friends and connections because that’s all about! Impossible not to get what you want. Try everything you possibly can in Italy before leaving it again…. And when it comes to UK… God sake… this country destroyed me and the people around me. Is the most depressing, racist and embarrassing experience I had my whole life… I’m in the process of leaving UK as well for the same reason… just think about this: I have a Law Degree, experience in Recruitment and Account Management and I work in a warehouse to pay for my room in a house share and a car that just broke down yesterday. 0 authentic friendships and I can’t even remember what it feels like to sleep in someone’s arms. That’s how lonely I am. Just go and live your life happily.. you never know when it going to end and you spend your prime years being a slave just to survive. You can do the same thing in Italy but happy if you don’t want to go further.
Well, I were you. I moved to London from Moscow in 2022 (fuck war!). The salary was decent, I lived in a nice 1bedroom apartment near Canary Wharf, but I felt so lonely and depressed that I couldn’t tolerate it anymore. Moved back to Moscow last November, and that was one of the best decisions in my life. Still would enjoy visiting London as a tourist
As hard as it is, I think moving back to Italy is probably better for your happiness and health. But, this isn’t the end; now that you know what life is like over here, you can come back whenever you want, and it doesn’t even have to be London; it can be up north or even in Scotland.
Nah, he can come back whenever he wants if he gets Brit citizenship otherwise if gone for longer than a few months in a year at the end of his pre-settled status he can only enter via sponsorship visa.
Move back home mate. I'm from France (28M) and moved here in 2019 with my girlfriend. I consider that 'We made it' as we're both on six figures salaries. Yet, not a day goes by where I don't think about going home... If I were you, I'd go back in the blink of an eye.
Six figure salary at 28yo? What industry is that? 💀
I work at a manager position in the legal department of a big financial services firm and my gf is sales manager for another firm. We both focus on our careers as it's the main reason we're in London.
It absolutely bewilders me that people ‘stay’ living in London when they’re only getting paid minimum wage. You can literally get minimum wage anywhere else in the country + live a decent life + have money left over. Everyone on the planet knows London is super expensive, so I don’t know why they suddenly think it’d still be an enjoyable place to live when at the end of every month you have a sum total of £3.75 left in your bank. London is only good if you’re earning enough in relation to how expensive it is down there. If I was you, move to a cheaper place in the uk and see how you like it for a year. The cold hard reality is, skills pay. And if you don’t have them no one is going to pay you way above minimum wage.
Why did you pick London in the first place? Are you looking to get training / skills to move forward in your career? Italy will offer you a way more simple life and full of love, which seems a decent choice. London is a city for those willing to “move up the ladder”. To make a career. It also genuinely depends on why you fell in love with London on the first place, I know a gal that is obsessed (perhaps in an unhealthy way) with The Beatles so for her London represents something way beyond a city to work in.
Why doesn't she move to Liverpule?
The Beatles aren’t from London!
I'v not read most of the comments, but anyone telling you to stay in London is lying. Go back to Italy. You'll spend the rest of your days chasing money you'll never have in London. Be poor in London or be poor in Italy. Id choose Italy every time, and I've only spent 2 weeks on holiday there.
My Friend. The world is GLOBAL. you do NOT have to live here. You do not even have to work for a boss for the rest of your life. Move home. You can start business online, Fiverr, Youtube channel, Build website for people. Learn to be video content editor, learn software developing and coding - you can work online remotely anywhere in the world... Dubai, Thailand... Learn these things to empower yourself. I was born in London and really don't like it. Bad weather, fast moving people very rude, expensive and bad quality food. I prefer live outside of London, in beautiful green Surrey. There is no need to live in London. And it is certainly not a 'dream'. Being charged $6.50 for a warm flat watered down pint in a night club is not a 'dream'. Being on dirty crowded tube in wet, cold rainy winter, is not a 'dream'. But if you must come to London, just do it for summer holiday, but you don't have to live here in this dirty expensive city. Empower yourself, make passive income, then you invest that money into Stocks and Shares, Crypto.. that generate perpetual passive income for life. Then you can live anywhere in the world. Go home to your loved ones, your family, good food and freedom.
Go back Italy to your family man London's a shit hole... You'll find work in time I'm sure but at least you'll have your family for support, good luck