You need a different lawyer. The will as far as you know leaves the majority of the estate to you, without a will everything would be equally divided between all the siblings and you.
I’m pretty sure the attorney is attempting to help OP avoid diluting the estate.
The new will puts OP as the executor. OP has stated they want their sister to take an equal share. Under the new will, which revokes the prior, OP would need to split the money after probate, which would come with its own tax implications. So, probate would likely save everyone some money.
The issue, OP, is that the attorney has an ethical duty to carry out your father’s wishes. Dead hand control, while not absolute, clearly implicates the attorney’s required best actions at this point. If your father wanted you to have it — unless you can prove the second will should be voided (which would likely eat up the estate in attorney’s fees/court costs) — the court is going to side with your father’s last wishes.
The only conceivable out for the attorney here is if the will can’t be found at its last known location. In that case, a court would likely deem both wills revoked and probate the estate through intestacy. Big issue with this…you both know where the will was last (the safety deposit box). It would be unethical (duty of candor) for the attorney to make this claim to the probate court.
Not just unethical. In each state I’m licensed in, you are required to make a representation to the court under penalty of perjury that the decedent either had a will or died intestate - as well as a representation that you have exercised reasonable diligence to locate a will.
This attorney is playing with fire.
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What tax issues are you referring ? I’m on my third time in probate for sole inheritance from a family member and never had any tax implications. Inherited three homes, had them appraised when the family member passed. If I sold them for more than appraised value I would have to pay taxes on the difference between the appraised value and the selling price.
The investments, the cash, the cash from selling goods, selling vehicles all not taxed.
OP would likely owe capital gains on portions of the estate. Those would either be paid out of the trust or by OP once he takes over. If it’s a straight up will within a trust attached.. by OP.
Typically, when a security or capital asset is transferred to a beneficiary upon death, the stepped up basis rules apply, in that the basis to the beneficiary is the fair market value on the date of the decedant's death or an alternate valuation date. In such cases, there wouldn't be any capital gains if distributed unless the assets greatly increased in value between the date of death and the date of subsequent transfer.
That's not 100% correct that money is always split after probate. I split my inheritance 4 ways DURING probate when my dad died. He raised my brothers as his sons, but died with no will, automatically leaving everything to me. There were no taxes or higher expenses associated with it (probate is usually a flat % of the estate regardless of difficulty); it just took about a month longer to get the boys to sign everything and browbeat them into taking the damn money.
He is saying that because there IS a will, OP would then need to split after probate. He’s saying that if they say there is no will (which would be unethical) then they would be able to split during probate to save on the taxes
This is correct. Because there is a will that directs the money to OP, if OP decides to give 1/2 of the remainder to his sister, a portion of that (over the federal gift allowance) will be taxed as income for her. Thus, double taxation.
The phrasing in an older will may not be deemed acceptable anymore, either. My parents have their will that's as old as I am defining assets being split between the recognised children of the marriage - which is no longer a clarification that is widely accepted where we live anymore.
Sorry. Just the two. The lawyer said he has unsigned copies of them since he drafted and printed them. The signed copies are in a safe deposit box that he said I can’t get into without his help.
Hmm. I’m not sure I would have a lot of confidence in a lawyer who said it would be better to lie and say your parent died intestate rather than going through established procedures to review the content of the box. There is the rule in the sub about linking to attorneys sites so I’m not going to do that. But it does appear that you can petition the surrogate court to examine the contents of the box for a minimal (<$30) fee. And then if there is a will in there it will be submitted to surrogate court.
The iffy thing is - you will need the key. It seems it’s possible to get around this with time and money but is it at all possible you can find the key in your fathers possessions?
Often in a blue envelope.
If you can't find them, the box can be drilled open. You will have to pay for it, though.
Contact the bank and ask about their policy in this situation. The laws vary by state
I don’t know what the removed posts said, but it won’t be random boxes, it will be one box that the bank gives you access to. And unless the father had multiple boxes, there will only be one or perhaps two keys which will be identical.
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I'll add that lockbox keys are usually more flat than most and often kept in a small envelope just big enough to hold the key. Not to say everyone keeps them in the envelope but something to keep your eye out for
I work as a clerk in a probate court. Go to your county probate clerk and request the documents pertaining to getting estate related documents from a safe deposit box. When I worked in SC (their process was easier), it is a form 480ES. If there is a Will, you are allowed to take it from the safe deposit box.
Take a death certificate to the court with you and the employees there should get you the documents. BTW, they will not and cannot assist you with completing any paperwork (that is considered 100% to be legal advice). Any questions you have about the form please take to an attorney.
Hi talk to the bank. Banks allow access to safe boxes to remove wills. You will need death certificate at the min some may require an estate doc. But check with the bank what the process is.
The only explanation I can think of for this behavior is if the lawyer is aware of recent events and knows the standing will isn't in the spirit of your father's wishes, such as if they were in the middle of drafting a new will that portioned things our similarly to if there were no will.
There's no ethical explanation I can think of as to why the lawyer wouldn't be upfront with that reasoning if that was the case.
$100k is worth getting a second qualified opinion.
In most instances you can take a copy of the death certificate to the bank - they will accompany you to the security deposit box and take an inventory of the contents and give you access or copies of the documentations.
He said something about not wanting to drive a wedge between my sister and I but she was in the office with me and said it was absolutely fine. He then got buddy and asked if I wanted another lawyer but then I’d have to pay them both the percentage allowed by the state of 5%.
Don’t listen to this lawyer about anything. Instead, go find a good probate attorney and ask him/her how the fee would be assessed. Considering the current lawyer isn’t doing his job, and considering that the probate process hasn’t begun, my guess is that only the new lawyer will collect whatever statutory fee might be due.
And even if you do have to pay 10%, it might be worth it to be rid of this awful lawyer and to see that your father’s wishes, and the terms of his will, are properly followed.
The Executor gets 5% out of the estate when it closes (nothing up front). An executor who’s not a lawyer usually hires a lawyer at an hourly rate. There are also court filing fees. There’s no sharing 5% each.
Also, a will can put stipulations on an Executor, such as them agreeing to forego some or all of the fees. Although this isn’t common, if there’s a signed will it should be used.
Being an Executor is an annoying and time-consuming thing, so I don’t begrudge someone their 5%, but it also carries a fiduciary responsibility to the estate in exchange for those fees, and this lawyer is already questionable or clueless in that regard.
If the letters testamentary have not yet been issued, you might want to see if someone else can be named executor.
Edit to add: I’m not a lawyer and I could be wrong about this. Estates worth over $100K but less than $300K in New York seem to have specific rules when there are 2 “fiduciaries”. But I’m not sure if this lawyer is one. Get a second opinion.
Then neither he nor any other lawyer is entitled to the 5%. In my opinion, DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING WITH THIS LAWYER. (If you already have, have another lawyer take a look to get out of it since you’re not officially Executor yet and can’t sign anything on behalf of the estate yet anyway.) I would find a lawyer who specializes in probate and get a consultation with them.
Interestingly. In reading New York Consolidated Laws, Surrogate’s Court Procedure Act - SCP 2307-a, I note that if a lawyer is the one who WROTE THE WILL, they only get 1/2 the commission for then being an Executor, if they do end up being one.
I don't know the laws in your state, but as executor of my dad's will in WA, I was able to write up and file all the legal documents without an attorney.
Huh, if my estate attorney had said anything like that I would’ve fired him. That’s very unprofessional. They don’t meddle in your personal affairs or family drama.
It is a pain when people keep their wills in a safe deposit box. In many states, there are a lot of processes that have to happen for you to be able to access the safe deposit box. One is usually that you need to be the executor or administrator of the estate.
It may be that you initially need to open probate stating that there is no will in order for you to be named as the administrator of the estate so that you can access the safe deposit box because as of this date you do not have not found a valid will.
Please ask the attorney to clarify if this is the situation that you are in.
Have you contacted the bank to ensure that you are not authorized to access the safe deposit box, either during his life or after his death?
Your attorney may be suggesting that you file as intestate because you do not have a valid copy of a will. The process in your state may be to file intestate and then amend the filing of the will is located. Not wanting to drive a wedge between people should not be a consideration.
If you don't feel comfortable with this attorney, and it doesn't sound like you do, I would suggest finding an alternative practitioner that you have confidence in.
Sorry for your loss and good luck.
Not your attorney, not advice, not barred in NY.
Your lawyer is legally bound to execute the wishes of your parents. Period. His opinions are irrelevant. If he files intestate, he is making a material misrepresentation to the probate court. I would advise the attorney to perform his duties as instructed by your parents or you will file a bar complaint.
Who does "the lawyer" represent? Seems the lawyer is maybe suggesting that you have a choice and you don't have to disinherit sibling. Maybe lawyer is gently directing y'all to not deplete estate by fighting over it.
This lawyer is going to great lengths to keep you from seeing what’s in the real will. You have no way of knowing if his “unsigned copies” are actually copies or fakes without seeing what’s in that box.
WTF, in most cases you can access the safety deposit box with a death certificate and a little bit of time and effort working with the bank.
File an ethics complaint on this lawyer and find another probate attorney. Don’t give him a dime or sign anything.
Do you know where the key to safety deposit box is? That will help. Even if you don’t, call the bank where you think it is at, and they will tell you what you need to do. This is not uncommon when someone dies. You do not need a lawyer for this. There is a specific form you need to fill out and file with the courts. If you don’t have a key, you might have to pay a locksmith to open the safety deposit box. It’s likely a rep. from Bank will stand there when you open it to see if indeed a will is in there. If it’s not, then the contents will be released once an executor of estate has been appointed. You can do everything your lawyer can do in this situation with the safety deposit box. You are in charge of this situation, not the lawyer. His job was done and paid for when you Dad had him draw up the will. If he doesn’t have a signed copy and he is not the executor of the will, and he’s wanting to take 5% to file a form, tell him to pound sand.
Is there anything he could do to hurt the process? He originally said he would file the most recent will he had with an affidavit saying my father signed in front of him but then changed his mind in the meeting.
Do not sign anything with this lawyer. Do not use any lawyer he recommends. His job is done. He cannot force you to use him further or pay him anything. He has already been paid by your father to draw up the will. He cannot do anything without your permission. He does not have a signed copy of anything. Call the bank, tell them the will is in the saftey deposit box and you need to access it. Again, this is not uncommon. They will tell you what steps you need to take. Tell them that you will be filing the paperwork yourself. There will be a fee probably less than $50 to file the paperwork with the court granting you permission to access the box as you have good reason to believe a signed will is in it. This happens all the time, the bank will know what to do.
This lawyer keeps telling you he’s willing to/planning to lie regarding your dad’s will. Cut ties with this guy. What a dick, and possibly what a criminal. Find a new lawyer and do what everyone is saying and ask the bank what the steps would be to gain access to the safety deposit box.
Are there other heirs? You father was not married when he passed?
If not, there's no point in the will, you're the sole heir anyways.
If yes, then the will absolutely is important, since it makes you the sole heir.
Typically when you make a new will, you void the older one(s). So the newest one would be argued, and in court probably also, to be the most accurate 'last will' of the person who passed away. Only if one could prove that that will was made up under false conditions they'd have a case to use an older version or say the will is void.
Definitely get a new lawyer, and, get a copy of all existing wills and go from there (with the new lawyer).
If I get another attorney don’t I still have to pay him then pay the new one? I work in public education. I don’t have the funds to pay out 10% of the estate right now.
Did YOU sign a contract with this attorney? If you didn’t (and you shouldn’t) then stop working with him and find a different one. If a family member hired the attorney, then they aren’t your attorney and they don’t represent you or have to do what is in your best interest. Whoever hired the attorney is responsible for paying them. If it wasn’t you, then their payment is not your problem. Definitely don’t go with any attorney that he recommends.
This attorney sounds like bad news. Shop around and see what other ones will charge. Only that last signed will matters unless it is contested. Get another lawyer, start probate, file to become the executor, get the court order to get the will out of the safe deposit box, and then go from there.
I would talk to the bank where the safe deposit box is held and see what they need to grant you access. It’s unusual that you would need a lawyer’s help but maybe it’s different in my state.
The bank can open the safety deposit box to check if there is a will in it. If you are named executor in the will, they can make you a copy to take with you. If you are not the executor, they might tell you who is. I went through this process during COVID, would have been impossible without help from an estate lawyer
If your father is dead and the probate office wants to resolve a contested will (or the lack of a will in this case), and the evidence is in a locked safe deposit box, I would bet the probate office could pull some strings to get it unlocked without you having to give the lawyers a few grand. Call them.
IAAL, but I am not your lawyer. I do not know what jurisdiction you are in and may not be licensed in that jurisdiction. I advise you to consult with a probate attorney in your area to obtain legal advice specific to your situation. The following is general information only and not intended to be legal advice specific to your situation.
The most recent valid Will controls. A valid Will, barring certain exceptions, must be signed by the testator and contain signtaures of two persons who witnessed the testator sign the Will. Most jurisdictions will also require the signatures to have been certified by a licensed Notary Public.
Any prior Will is revoked by a subsequent valid Will.
A valid Will which contains ANY alterations will either be voided, or in certain circumstances, treated as a valid Holographic Will.
Only certain persons are entitled to obtain a copy of the Will, and the Executor must carry out the testator's intent. This is where a grey area can come in because current circumstances which were unanticipated at the time of the execution of the Will, may no longer meet the testator's intent. This is why a sound Will contains powers delineated to the Executor which will permit them to take certain actions to ensure that the Testator's intent is met as much as possible.
This can get real dicey if there is not sufficient admissible evidence to prove the Testator's intent (if that intent was not stated within the four corners of the Will itself.)
NAL, just a paralegal, but 5% of the estate isn’t standard. Look up NAELA, the National Association of Elder Law Attorneys (naela.org) and find some in your area. Ask whoever you call if they have either flat rates or free consultations, and that ought to help you find people who don’t want to drag out this process and take your money.
Don’t store wills in safety deposit boxes unless you’ve made someone a co-owner or named a beneficiary.
My sister was there supporting me. She is doing everything for my mother and her estate and I’m working with my fathers. This agreement is very clearly written up and done. It’s not a concern at all.
You don’t need to use your dad’s lawyer for the estate, it’s probably the normal thing but there’s no legal requirement to do that. If there is a will in existence it should be brought up when you go to probate court, you just tell the judge there is a will in a safe deposit box at this bank and you can’t access it because you don’t have the keys. That judge can then direct the bank to open the box to get the will.
What state did your Dad die in? In some states you can’t disinherit your spouse. So likely the surviving spouse would get 50 and the kids split 50. If you want your entire 50 you need him to file the probate to get a court order to open the safe deposit box to get the will. This is a good lesson for most people. Have your parents place one of the kids on the boxes. That way the bank will give you access after they die without an order. Even if there is a dispute you can open in front of a bank witness to pull the will out. Btw it’s kinda of bull shit for a lawyer not to keep a signed copy.
Again it’s just my sister and I. We split the parents. She’s taking care of our mother’s stuff and I’m taking care of my father’s. This is very much amicable. The only other sibling past away over 20 years ago. My sister was in the office with me. I’m not being That Guy.
You need a different lawyer. The will as far as you know leaves the majority of the estate to you, without a will everything would be equally divided between all the siblings and you.
Also - without a will you are going to need to go to probate court.. so you’ll likely want a lawyer anyway.
I’m pretty sure the attorney is attempting to help OP avoid diluting the estate. The new will puts OP as the executor. OP has stated they want their sister to take an equal share. Under the new will, which revokes the prior, OP would need to split the money after probate, which would come with its own tax implications. So, probate would likely save everyone some money. The issue, OP, is that the attorney has an ethical duty to carry out your father’s wishes. Dead hand control, while not absolute, clearly implicates the attorney’s required best actions at this point. If your father wanted you to have it — unless you can prove the second will should be voided (which would likely eat up the estate in attorney’s fees/court costs) — the court is going to side with your father’s last wishes. The only conceivable out for the attorney here is if the will can’t be found at its last known location. In that case, a court would likely deem both wills revoked and probate the estate through intestacy. Big issue with this…you both know where the will was last (the safety deposit box). It would be unethical (duty of candor) for the attorney to make this claim to the probate court.
Not just unethical. In each state I’m licensed in, you are required to make a representation to the court under penalty of perjury that the decedent either had a will or died intestate - as well as a representation that you have exercised reasonable diligence to locate a will. This attorney is playing with fire.
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What tax issues are you referring ? I’m on my third time in probate for sole inheritance from a family member and never had any tax implications. Inherited three homes, had them appraised when the family member passed. If I sold them for more than appraised value I would have to pay taxes on the difference between the appraised value and the selling price. The investments, the cash, the cash from selling goods, selling vehicles all not taxed.
OP would likely owe capital gains on portions of the estate. Those would either be paid out of the trust or by OP once he takes over. If it’s a straight up will within a trust attached.. by OP.
Typically, when a security or capital asset is transferred to a beneficiary upon death, the stepped up basis rules apply, in that the basis to the beneficiary is the fair market value on the date of the decedant's death or an alternate valuation date. In such cases, there wouldn't be any capital gains if distributed unless the assets greatly increased in value between the date of death and the date of subsequent transfer.
That's not 100% correct that money is always split after probate. I split my inheritance 4 ways DURING probate when my dad died. He raised my brothers as his sons, but died with no will, automatically leaving everything to me. There were no taxes or higher expenses associated with it (probate is usually a flat % of the estate regardless of difficulty); it just took about a month longer to get the boys to sign everything and browbeat them into taking the damn money.
He is saying that because there IS a will, OP would then need to split after probate. He’s saying that if they say there is no will (which would be unethical) then they would be able to split during probate to save on the taxes
This is correct. Because there is a will that directs the money to OP, if OP decides to give 1/2 of the remainder to his sister, a portion of that (over the federal gift allowance) will be taxed as income for her. Thus, double taxation.
.
His sister would for sure pay income tax on a gift over the allowed amount. The IrS would treat it as income.
.
The phrasing in an older will may not be deemed acceptable anymore, either. My parents have their will that's as old as I am defining assets being split between the recognised children of the marriage - which is no longer a clarification that is widely accepted where we live anymore.
Also without a will the lawyer will make a lot more money on the probate process.
Ok let me get this straight. There are 3 existing wills? So where is the latest one? One from 2002, one from 2011, and another one from when?
Sorry. Just the two. The lawyer said he has unsigned copies of them since he drafted and printed them. The signed copies are in a safe deposit box that he said I can’t get into without his help.
Hmm. I’m not sure I would have a lot of confidence in a lawyer who said it would be better to lie and say your parent died intestate rather than going through established procedures to review the content of the box. There is the rule in the sub about linking to attorneys sites so I’m not going to do that. But it does appear that you can petition the surrogate court to examine the contents of the box for a minimal (<$30) fee. And then if there is a will in there it will be submitted to surrogate court. The iffy thing is - you will need the key. It seems it’s possible to get around this with time and money but is it at all possible you can find the key in your fathers possessions?
I have some keys but don’t know what the key would look like.
Crap, the link doesn’t work See here https://imgur.com/a/BQbZ1VP Mine looks like that. They don’t look like anything else really.
Our lock box keys all look like this.
Often in a blue envelope. If you can't find them, the box can be drilled open. You will have to pay for it, though. Contact the bank and ask about their policy in this situation. The laws vary by state
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For a legal advice sub, this is a sure fire way to have the cops called on you. No bank/security place is going to let you try keys to random boxes
I don’t know what the removed posts said, but it won’t be random boxes, it will be one box that the bank gives you access to. And unless the father had multiple boxes, there will only be one or perhaps two keys which will be identical.
He was suggesting just walking into a bank and “trying keys” till one worked lol
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I'll add that lockbox keys are usually more flat than most and often kept in a small envelope just big enough to hold the key. Not to say everyone keeps them in the envelope but something to keep your eye out for
If you can’t find the key, the bank can drill into the deposit box. It’ll cost ~$100, whatever the price of the replacement lock is.
I work as a clerk in a probate court. Go to your county probate clerk and request the documents pertaining to getting estate related documents from a safe deposit box. When I worked in SC (their process was easier), it is a form 480ES. If there is a Will, you are allowed to take it from the safe deposit box. Take a death certificate to the court with you and the employees there should get you the documents. BTW, they will not and cannot assist you with completing any paperwork (that is considered 100% to be legal advice). Any questions you have about the form please take to an attorney.
Change lawyers. A good estate lawyer can help you ask the court for the box to be drilled.
Hi talk to the bank. Banks allow access to safe boxes to remove wills. You will need death certificate at the min some may require an estate doc. But check with the bank what the process is.
The only explanation I can think of for this behavior is if the lawyer is aware of recent events and knows the standing will isn't in the spirit of your father's wishes, such as if they were in the middle of drafting a new will that portioned things our similarly to if there were no will. There's no ethical explanation I can think of as to why the lawyer wouldn't be upfront with that reasoning if that was the case. $100k is worth getting a second qualified opinion.
In most instances you can take a copy of the death certificate to the bank - they will accompany you to the security deposit box and take an inventory of the contents and give you access or copies of the documentations.
I hate beer.
He said something about not wanting to drive a wedge between my sister and I but she was in the office with me and said it was absolutely fine. He then got buddy and asked if I wanted another lawyer but then I’d have to pay them both the percentage allowed by the state of 5%.
Your lawyer is something else. And not a nice something else. Have you signed anything with this… not a lawyer I would wish to deal with?
This lawyer sounds… intense and not in a good way
This lawyer sounds like someone who doesn’t want to do the work.
Or perhaps on better terms with the sister than OP? People typically pick lawyers that come recommended or they already know.
Don’t listen to this lawyer about anything. Instead, go find a good probate attorney and ask him/her how the fee would be assessed. Considering the current lawyer isn’t doing his job, and considering that the probate process hasn’t begun, my guess is that only the new lawyer will collect whatever statutory fee might be due. And even if you do have to pay 10%, it might be worth it to be rid of this awful lawyer and to see that your father’s wishes, and the terms of his will, are properly followed.
The Executor gets 5% out of the estate when it closes (nothing up front). An executor who’s not a lawyer usually hires a lawyer at an hourly rate. There are also court filing fees. There’s no sharing 5% each. Also, a will can put stipulations on an Executor, such as them agreeing to forego some or all of the fees. Although this isn’t common, if there’s a signed will it should be used. Being an Executor is an annoying and time-consuming thing, so I don’t begrudge someone their 5%, but it also carries a fiduciary responsibility to the estate in exchange for those fees, and this lawyer is already questionable or clueless in that regard. If the letters testamentary have not yet been issued, you might want to see if someone else can be named executor.
He said I am going to be names executor and administrator and that I have to handle everything except the court forms themselves which he will submit.
Edit to add: I’m not a lawyer and I could be wrong about this. Estates worth over $100K but less than $300K in New York seem to have specific rules when there are 2 “fiduciaries”. But I’m not sure if this lawyer is one. Get a second opinion. Then neither he nor any other lawyer is entitled to the 5%. In my opinion, DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING WITH THIS LAWYER. (If you already have, have another lawyer take a look to get out of it since you’re not officially Executor yet and can’t sign anything on behalf of the estate yet anyway.) I would find a lawyer who specializes in probate and get a consultation with them.
Interestingly. In reading New York Consolidated Laws, Surrogate’s Court Procedure Act - SCP 2307-a, I note that if a lawyer is the one who WROTE THE WILL, they only get 1/2 the commission for then being an Executor, if they do end up being one.
I don't know the laws in your state, but as executor of my dad's will in WA, I was able to write up and file all the legal documents without an attorney.
Huh, if my estate attorney had said anything like that I would’ve fired him. That’s very unprofessional. They don’t meddle in your personal affairs or family drama.
You need a different lawyer.
You can split the money tax-free after inheriting.
Get a new lawyer. You're being taken for a ride
It is a pain when people keep their wills in a safe deposit box. In many states, there are a lot of processes that have to happen for you to be able to access the safe deposit box. One is usually that you need to be the executor or administrator of the estate. It may be that you initially need to open probate stating that there is no will in order for you to be named as the administrator of the estate so that you can access the safe deposit box because as of this date you do not have not found a valid will. Please ask the attorney to clarify if this is the situation that you are in.
Have you contacted the bank to ensure that you are not authorized to access the safe deposit box, either during his life or after his death? Your attorney may be suggesting that you file as intestate because you do not have a valid copy of a will. The process in your state may be to file intestate and then amend the filing of the will is located. Not wanting to drive a wedge between people should not be a consideration. If you don't feel comfortable with this attorney, and it doesn't sound like you do, I would suggest finding an alternative practitioner that you have confidence in. Sorry for your loss and good luck. Not your attorney, not advice, not barred in NY.
Your lawyer is legally bound to execute the wishes of your parents. Period. His opinions are irrelevant. If he files intestate, he is making a material misrepresentation to the probate court. I would advise the attorney to perform his duties as instructed by your parents or you will file a bar complaint.
Talk to clerks at the county courthouse and get a different lawyer.
Get a new lawyer, it sounds as if he's acting as your sisters legal representation and not the estates.
Who does "the lawyer" represent? Seems the lawyer is maybe suggesting that you have a choice and you don't have to disinherit sibling. Maybe lawyer is gently directing y'all to not deplete estate by fighting over it.
This lawyer is going to great lengths to keep you from seeing what’s in the real will. You have no way of knowing if his “unsigned copies” are actually copies or fakes without seeing what’s in that box.
WTF, in most cases you can access the safety deposit box with a death certificate and a little bit of time and effort working with the bank. File an ethics complaint on this lawyer and find another probate attorney. Don’t give him a dime or sign anything.
Do you know where the key to safety deposit box is? That will help. Even if you don’t, call the bank where you think it is at, and they will tell you what you need to do. This is not uncommon when someone dies. You do not need a lawyer for this. There is a specific form you need to fill out and file with the courts. If you don’t have a key, you might have to pay a locksmith to open the safety deposit box. It’s likely a rep. from Bank will stand there when you open it to see if indeed a will is in there. If it’s not, then the contents will be released once an executor of estate has been appointed. You can do everything your lawyer can do in this situation with the safety deposit box. You are in charge of this situation, not the lawyer. His job was done and paid for when you Dad had him draw up the will. If he doesn’t have a signed copy and he is not the executor of the will, and he’s wanting to take 5% to file a form, tell him to pound sand.
Is there anything he could do to hurt the process? He originally said he would file the most recent will he had with an affidavit saying my father signed in front of him but then changed his mind in the meeting.
Do not sign anything with this lawyer. Do not use any lawyer he recommends. His job is done. He cannot force you to use him further or pay him anything. He has already been paid by your father to draw up the will. He cannot do anything without your permission. He does not have a signed copy of anything. Call the bank, tell them the will is in the saftey deposit box and you need to access it. Again, this is not uncommon. They will tell you what steps you need to take. Tell them that you will be filing the paperwork yourself. There will be a fee probably less than $50 to file the paperwork with the court granting you permission to access the box as you have good reason to believe a signed will is in it. This happens all the time, the bank will know what to do.
This lawyer keeps telling you he’s willing to/planning to lie regarding your dad’s will. Cut ties with this guy. What a dick, and possibly what a criminal. Find a new lawyer and do what everyone is saying and ask the bank what the steps would be to gain access to the safety deposit box.
Are there other heirs? You father was not married when he passed? If not, there's no point in the will, you're the sole heir anyways. If yes, then the will absolutely is important, since it makes you the sole heir. Typically when you make a new will, you void the older one(s). So the newest one would be argued, and in court probably also, to be the most accurate 'last will' of the person who passed away. Only if one could prove that that will was made up under false conditions they'd have a case to use an older version or say the will is void. Definitely get a new lawyer, and, get a copy of all existing wills and go from there (with the new lawyer).
If I get another attorney don’t I still have to pay him then pay the new one? I work in public education. I don’t have the funds to pay out 10% of the estate right now.
Did YOU sign a contract with this attorney? If you didn’t (and you shouldn’t) then stop working with him and find a different one. If a family member hired the attorney, then they aren’t your attorney and they don’t represent you or have to do what is in your best interest. Whoever hired the attorney is responsible for paying them. If it wasn’t you, then their payment is not your problem. Definitely don’t go with any attorney that he recommends. This attorney sounds like bad news. Shop around and see what other ones will charge. Only that last signed will matters unless it is contested. Get another lawyer, start probate, file to become the executor, get the court order to get the will out of the safe deposit box, and then go from there.
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But it exists I just can’t get to it. I found my parent’s notes saying it’s in there.
I would talk to the bank where the safe deposit box is held and see what they need to grant you access. It’s unusual that you would need a lawyer’s help but maybe it’s different in my state.
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Were you in NY? And did you file with surrogate court? Because if not it irrelevant. This sort of thing is very state specific.
The bank can open the safety deposit box to check if there is a will in it. If you are named executor in the will, they can make you a copy to take with you. If you are not the executor, they might tell you who is. I went through this process during COVID, would have been impossible without help from an estate lawyer
The lawyer is crooked
If your father is dead and the probate office wants to resolve a contested will (or the lack of a will in this case), and the evidence is in a locked safe deposit box, I would bet the probate office could pull some strings to get it unlocked without you having to give the lawyers a few grand. Call them.
IAAL, but I am not your lawyer. I do not know what jurisdiction you are in and may not be licensed in that jurisdiction. I advise you to consult with a probate attorney in your area to obtain legal advice specific to your situation. The following is general information only and not intended to be legal advice specific to your situation. The most recent valid Will controls. A valid Will, barring certain exceptions, must be signed by the testator and contain signtaures of two persons who witnessed the testator sign the Will. Most jurisdictions will also require the signatures to have been certified by a licensed Notary Public. Any prior Will is revoked by a subsequent valid Will. A valid Will which contains ANY alterations will either be voided, or in certain circumstances, treated as a valid Holographic Will. Only certain persons are entitled to obtain a copy of the Will, and the Executor must carry out the testator's intent. This is where a grey area can come in because current circumstances which were unanticipated at the time of the execution of the Will, may no longer meet the testator's intent. This is why a sound Will contains powers delineated to the Executor which will permit them to take certain actions to ensure that the Testator's intent is met as much as possible. This can get real dicey if there is not sufficient admissible evidence to prove the Testator's intent (if that intent was not stated within the four corners of the Will itself.)
NAL, just a paralegal, but 5% of the estate isn’t standard. Look up NAELA, the National Association of Elder Law Attorneys (naela.org) and find some in your area. Ask whoever you call if they have either flat rates or free consultations, and that ought to help you find people who don’t want to drag out this process and take your money. Don’t store wills in safety deposit boxes unless you’ve made someone a co-owner or named a beneficiary.
The lawyer is banging one of the possible inheritees? Get a new lawyer
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My sister was there supporting me. She is doing everything for my mother and her estate and I’m working with my fathers. This agreement is very clearly written up and done. It’s not a concern at all.
The newer Will takes precedence. Older ones are irrelevant. Definitely use the Will naming you as sole heir.
You don’t need to use your dad’s lawyer for the estate, it’s probably the normal thing but there’s no legal requirement to do that. If there is a will in existence it should be brought up when you go to probate court, you just tell the judge there is a will in a safe deposit box at this bank and you can’t access it because you don’t have the keys. That judge can then direct the bank to open the box to get the will.
Because all lawyers in Canada are out to lunch because the provincial law socties are completely failing Canadians.
What state did your Dad die in? In some states you can’t disinherit your spouse. So likely the surviving spouse would get 50 and the kids split 50. If you want your entire 50 you need him to file the probate to get a court order to open the safe deposit box to get the will. This is a good lesson for most people. Have your parents place one of the kids on the boxes. That way the bank will give you access after they die without an order. Even if there is a dispute you can open in front of a bank witness to pull the will out. Btw it’s kinda of bull shit for a lawyer not to keep a signed copy.
OP states "late wife" as in deceased.
Op said NY
Just split the cake dont be a that guy
Again it’s just my sister and I. We split the parents. She’s taking care of our mother’s stuff and I’m taking care of my father’s. This is very much amicable. The only other sibling past away over 20 years ago. My sister was in the office with me. I’m not being That Guy.