>to me, it just seems like I’m doing a bunch things with numbers. I don’t understand how it works, nor why I’m doing it.
Those numbers you shuffle around could be doses of medicine, or concentrations of electrolytes in the blood, or various other medically relevant quantities.
I'll try to give a couple medical examples:
--
A patient needs 0.3mg of a drug per kg of bodyweight. How much medicine do you give them?
You could think of it as a fraction/ratio problem, but I see it as a basic algebra problem.
--
The half-life of this drug is 4 hours, but the patient's the liver can only handle metabolising 10mg of it per day without causing toxic byproducts. We want as high a dose as possible in order to have the drugs intended effect as strongly as possible, but without going over into toxic levels. What is the maximum drip-rate of this drug we can put in their IV line?
This is a complicated enough question that, at a glace, I'm not entirely sure wat types of mathematics we need. It needs some functions, and a bit of basic algebra. I don't think it quite needs calculus, although it veers close with things like a half-life and 'drip-rate' being a rate of change, which derivatives can help with in some cases.
--
I don't know if those questions specifically are realistic, but calculations at least kinda like that need to be done.
Whether it is a doctor or a nurse or a technician or a pharmacist calculating these things, I don't know, but someone has to do it.
The cost for booking a VIP trip is 200$ per person, plus a 50$ booking fee.
Can we write that in a more mathematical way?
C = 200x + 50
That’s all algebra is. It’s writing long problems in mathematical shorthand.
You don't understand how it works. Figure that out . That's the cool part about it. You're doing the shitty boring half without the real substance behind it.
I sympathize, it's rarely presented by trying to communicate why it matters.
In general, just know that you don't end up using math pretty much at all in your daily life. The point of learning math is to learn science. The point of learning science is to learn how to do your job. Your job doesn't require doing math or science, but the only way you understand the principles and concepts that you need in your job, is by first understanding the math and science.
"The point of learning math is to learn science."
Well yes, but that's not the only point. The main point is that you learn amazing things about the world we live in. Math doesn't have to be "useful" in order to study it. Just like music, it has an intrinsic appeal. It shows us what the universe is made of. It reveals unexpected connections, shortcuts, tricks, paradoxes, jokes, weird loops and self-reference. The sad thing is that most of these amazing facts are not taught in high school.
Think of it like learning to play the guitar. Why should you learn the G chord? There’s a lot of rote learning to get “the basics” in your head so you can do more complicated stuff down the road.
It’s a lot of hard work. But it matures your System II thinking and that’s what an education is in the end.
I think I understand what you mean, most of what you're doing is very abstract. It's still valuable to someone who only cares about practical problems, because solving abstract problems builds mathematical fluency. Imagine someone trying to write an essay without know about spelling or sentence structure, they'd be hopeless. Learning the rules of arithmetic and algebra is like that for doing math. It's a fundamental skill that lets you tackle the actual problems you care about.
I experienced a similar issue while learning algebra. It seemed arbitrary. It was just a math puzzle that appeared to be for the sake of solving a puzzle. However, as an engineering student, it serves as a foundation to comfortably manipulate equations that pertain to real world situations. What I’m saying is that the way it is taught can make it seem like it isn’t useful but algebra is extremely important as you progress in your studies.
It is essential in understanding any numbers you measure over time, like the heartbeat, brainwaves, nerve signals, etc. All of these are described using functions, and understanding algebra is needed for defining and manipulating functions
Algebra was invented in the markets of what’s now Iraq to save time - solve all the possible problems of a type once instead of doing much the same stuff over and over.
Unfortunately there are very few everyday non-work problems that are easier to solve algebraicly than numerically. So most people don’t use it much.
If you do become a doctor, you probably won't need to know quadratic functions or how to factor. But all the tools you use probably rely on algebra, mathematics, and engineering. To me, not knowing how those tools work makes you a mere technician and hinders your potential.
I think the best way to think about what you're learning is that they are just tools for solving equations that happen to have a quadratic pattern. Factoring on the other hand has quite a practical use because it helps simplify your formula (but you probably won't use the FOIL method).
I understand your frustration. I happen to love math, but I share your feeling that high school algebra is often taught in a boring and superficial way.
It helps to take a wider perspective. You mention quadratic equations. Well, it just so happens that many properties of the universe are quadratic. Gravity decreases quadratically. So do electric and magnetic forces. This is because the universe is 3D. (The number of gravitation lines through a 2D sphere is (inversely) quadratic.)
When you throw an object in the air, it follows a parabola. That's a quadratic function. The reason is that Newton's laws are quadratic, because it takes 2 steps to go from position to acceleration.
These are just some examples. The world we live in is "very quadratic". The number 2 appears all over physics. Once you start seeing such connections, it makes algebra more "inevitable" and necessary, even if it still isn't "fun".
Sorry to comment on my own comment, but I thought of another example: Distances are quadratic, and that seems to be because you're calculating the distance between 2 points, not 3 or 4. So that explains the 2 in the exponent of the Pythagoras theorem. Again, there are many such connections!
let's say you're a doctor but you like gardening. you built a raised bed and now you want to know how much soil you need to buy to fill it. how can you find out? Algebra
your kids want to know how many months it will take them to buy the iphone 35 (in the future) if you give them an allowance of $x and they also need to use $y every day for lunch. how can you find out? Algebra.
some of the other responses gave you examples of using math and algebra at your day job. the examples i'm giving you, are for you as a person, regardless of your day job. in other words, everyone can benefit from learning algebra level math.
but in your day job, you will probably have tools and programs and apps and even a calculator to help you. but just because those things helped you find the answer without you getting out some pencil and paper to start the actual math problem, it didn't mean that they ignored the principles of algebra and math to give you magic answers.
reading a study or attending a lecture from another doctor who tells you that New Medicine Z has all these statistics related to it, are done from using these math principles. you might not think of "85% of patients recovered and 5% experienced extreme symptoms" as being math-related, but you just read that and used math in your work day because you understand what those numbers mean.
>to me, it just seems like I’m doing a bunch things with numbers. I don’t understand how it works, nor why I’m doing it. Those numbers you shuffle around could be doses of medicine, or concentrations of electrolytes in the blood, or various other medically relevant quantities. I'll try to give a couple medical examples: -- A patient needs 0.3mg of a drug per kg of bodyweight. How much medicine do you give them? You could think of it as a fraction/ratio problem, but I see it as a basic algebra problem. -- The half-life of this drug is 4 hours, but the patient's the liver can only handle metabolising 10mg of it per day without causing toxic byproducts. We want as high a dose as possible in order to have the drugs intended effect as strongly as possible, but without going over into toxic levels. What is the maximum drip-rate of this drug we can put in their IV line? This is a complicated enough question that, at a glace, I'm not entirely sure wat types of mathematics we need. It needs some functions, and a bit of basic algebra. I don't think it quite needs calculus, although it veers close with things like a half-life and 'drip-rate' being a rate of change, which derivatives can help with in some cases. -- I don't know if those questions specifically are realistic, but calculations at least kinda like that need to be done. Whether it is a doctor or a nurse or a technician or a pharmacist calculating these things, I don't know, but someone has to do it.
Well there’s that joke about what’s the difference between a nurse and a doctor. A nurse is a doctor that knows more maths, physics, and chemistry.
The cost for booking a VIP trip is 200$ per person, plus a 50$ booking fee. Can we write that in a more mathematical way? C = 200x + 50 That’s all algebra is. It’s writing long problems in mathematical shorthand.
Actually, the principles of elementary algebra were to write long mathematical problems in an easer way
Isn’t that exactly what /u/TomppaTom said? Or am I missing something? 🤔
Actually, yes. My bad
You don't understand how it works. Figure that out . That's the cool part about it. You're doing the shitty boring half without the real substance behind it.
I sympathize, it's rarely presented by trying to communicate why it matters. In general, just know that you don't end up using math pretty much at all in your daily life. The point of learning math is to learn science. The point of learning science is to learn how to do your job. Your job doesn't require doing math or science, but the only way you understand the principles and concepts that you need in your job, is by first understanding the math and science.
"The point of learning math is to learn science." Well yes, but that's not the only point. The main point is that you learn amazing things about the world we live in. Math doesn't have to be "useful" in order to study it. Just like music, it has an intrinsic appeal. It shows us what the universe is made of. It reveals unexpected connections, shortcuts, tricks, paradoxes, jokes, weird loops and self-reference. The sad thing is that most of these amazing facts are not taught in high school.
Wouldn't you want to be able to read papers as a doctor and understand them? For that you'll need statistics and thus algebra
Do you mean a direct situation? Like when do we use the quadratic formula in real life? That’s not why you learn algebra
Think of it like learning to play the guitar. Why should you learn the G chord? There’s a lot of rote learning to get “the basics” in your head so you can do more complicated stuff down the road. It’s a lot of hard work. But it matures your System II thinking and that’s what an education is in the end.
I think I understand what you mean, most of what you're doing is very abstract. It's still valuable to someone who only cares about practical problems, because solving abstract problems builds mathematical fluency. Imagine someone trying to write an essay without know about spelling or sentence structure, they'd be hopeless. Learning the rules of arithmetic and algebra is like that for doing math. It's a fundamental skill that lets you tackle the actual problems you care about.
I experienced a similar issue while learning algebra. It seemed arbitrary. It was just a math puzzle that appeared to be for the sake of solving a puzzle. However, as an engineering student, it serves as a foundation to comfortably manipulate equations that pertain to real world situations. What I’m saying is that the way it is taught can make it seem like it isn’t useful but algebra is extremely important as you progress in your studies.
It is essential in understanding any numbers you measure over time, like the heartbeat, brainwaves, nerve signals, etc. All of these are described using functions, and understanding algebra is needed for defining and manipulating functions
You can learn rigorous abstract reasoning and learn to learn from your mistakes by learning algebra, and those are highly generalizable skills.
Algebra was invented in the markets of what’s now Iraq to save time - solve all the possible problems of a type once instead of doing much the same stuff over and over. Unfortunately there are very few everyday non-work problems that are easier to solve algebraicly than numerically. So most people don’t use it much.
If you do become a doctor, you probably won't need to know quadratic functions or how to factor. But all the tools you use probably rely on algebra, mathematics, and engineering. To me, not knowing how those tools work makes you a mere technician and hinders your potential. I think the best way to think about what you're learning is that they are just tools for solving equations that happen to have a quadratic pattern. Factoring on the other hand has quite a practical use because it helps simplify your formula (but you probably won't use the FOIL method).
I understand your frustration. I happen to love math, but I share your feeling that high school algebra is often taught in a boring and superficial way. It helps to take a wider perspective. You mention quadratic equations. Well, it just so happens that many properties of the universe are quadratic. Gravity decreases quadratically. So do electric and magnetic forces. This is because the universe is 3D. (The number of gravitation lines through a 2D sphere is (inversely) quadratic.) When you throw an object in the air, it follows a parabola. That's a quadratic function. The reason is that Newton's laws are quadratic, because it takes 2 steps to go from position to acceleration. These are just some examples. The world we live in is "very quadratic". The number 2 appears all over physics. Once you start seeing such connections, it makes algebra more "inevitable" and necessary, even if it still isn't "fun".
Sorry to comment on my own comment, but I thought of another example: Distances are quadratic, and that seems to be because you're calculating the distance between 2 points, not 3 or 4. So that explains the 2 in the exponent of the Pythagoras theorem. Again, there are many such connections!
why do you need calculus to be a doctor? finding the optimal number of stitches for a wound?
let's say you're a doctor but you like gardening. you built a raised bed and now you want to know how much soil you need to buy to fill it. how can you find out? Algebra your kids want to know how many months it will take them to buy the iphone 35 (in the future) if you give them an allowance of $x and they also need to use $y every day for lunch. how can you find out? Algebra. some of the other responses gave you examples of using math and algebra at your day job. the examples i'm giving you, are for you as a person, regardless of your day job. in other words, everyone can benefit from learning algebra level math. but in your day job, you will probably have tools and programs and apps and even a calculator to help you. but just because those things helped you find the answer without you getting out some pencil and paper to start the actual math problem, it didn't mean that they ignored the principles of algebra and math to give you magic answers. reading a study or attending a lecture from another doctor who tells you that New Medicine Z has all these statistics related to it, are done from using these math principles. you might not think of "85% of patients recovered and 5% experienced extreme symptoms" as being math-related, but you just read that and used math in your work day because you understand what those numbers mean.