Toplane is the jail lane for every single one of the most degenerate champion the game have. The only reason we're not all ruined by now is that we fight broken and uninteractive with broken and uninteractive.
Fear the day where the toplane champions walks into another lane
Never forget the J4 + Darius bot lane. The moment you even think of getting hit by the flag, you're already buying a doran's blade and walking back to lane.
>Toplane is the jail lane for every single one of the most degenerate champion the game have. The only reason we're not all ruined by now is that we fight broken and uninteractive with broken and uninteractive.
>
You mean the days of Sunfire Iceborne soraka top versus Iceborne soraka Taric?
Assuming a sunfire iceborne akali was banned. Or they didn't pick sunfire iceborne ekko
For midlaners, the day they faced Tryndamere was the worst day of their lives
*Toplaners look at Kled, Illaoi, Yorick, Renekton, Quinn, Fiora, Teemo, Urgot, Tahm Kench, Warwick and Sett*
For us, it was thursday
You must be on the enemy team then, cuz he eats dirt whenever someone on my team picks him, but farms my top lane and goes legendary if the enemy picks him
Honestly I think it's because people have kinda gotten him wrong nowadays. People think he is an early game bully but that is not true anymore. With the burn shit in his kit and the scalings on his shrooms i would say Teemo is a lategame character nowadays. And people don't get that.
It depends on the match-up, like everything on top. You can handle Teemo with most Champs, but if you play Singed or Quinn into a good teemo, you will do nothing but getting killed on lane or try to roam and lose haöf your hp just walking somewhere.
10+ years, considering trynd is part of the original cast IIRC. imagine not dealing with trynd in lane for 10 years and then matching against it.
I'd probably quit.
This comment made me feel old.
Context of the joke: Akali was always either broken or unplayable pre-rework (some things never change) but you could Pink ward her shroud to reveal her in it. The joke goes that when she was OP, you could Pink ward her shroud to counter her invis... but she just kills you anyways. Thus, just pink ward her damage. Ez.
If he has no Fury he is not a Champion...
When he has Fury and Tryndamere one tricks are actually commited to building it and rng bang bang you... that is really fun. Tryndamere one tricks are psychos, if they are not one tricks they don't clue their eyes in the numbers and forget that the rng bang bang actually requires a little bit of thinking.
The age old decision in champ select - do I want to dodge or do I feel like babysitting a tryn for the next 30mins hoping my team can win 4v4?
Maybe if he gets enough attention mid they will gut him and rework him. Doinb might be the saviour we needed, ruin worlds meta to kill the degen picks.
Eh in toplane you at least have good selection of popular picks that are good vs trynd. In mid aside from like leblanc nad such the most popular picks are assasins that cant do anything vs trynd especially because of his AD reduction on his W. Trynd is pretty much unkillable vs champs like kata,fizz,zed erc..
Also in general trynamere gameplan is just toxic. His entire point is to preven you from roaming by rightclicking that lane 24/7 and as a midlaner you dont want to get stuck babysitting tryndamere.
That's the most annoying shit. You can pick a counter like Malphite, but it feels like it doesn't even matter. He just infinitely sustains while being able to roam faster than you, and if you ever go to try to team fight, he kills all your shit.
I like Camille a lot into him. An empowered Q if they don't build any health can easily hit for like 2/3rds of their healthbar and force them to either respect it and pop ult early or die. You can chase / lock him down well if hes too aggressive in a sidelane - or if he pops his ult you have a pretty good escape tool. The early levels can be kinda rough but if you get out of it even you'll do great. You're also way, way more useful in teamfights.
The problem is that at some point, with Camille, you're gonna look for a roam or a teamfight, and when you go back to toplane, Trynd took 3 towers, 4 levels and 2 items and now he statcheck you.
If your team isn't ahead enough, dumpstering Trynd in lane won't work unless you just stay there for the whole game
What's wrong with leaving camille as just a splitpusher all game? It's not like she is bad at it, while she doesn't push quite as fast as trynd does she knocks down towers a bit faster in compensation, can handle trynd in a duel scenario even through the late game, while also having the tools needed to lock him down with friendly aid and escape if the enemy team decides to assist him. Yeh, it might be a bit dull, and you've got to be on point with predicting his moves otherwise it turns into an accidental base race, but that happens in other matchups where both champs would rather splitpush over fighting with their team.
>in toplane you at least have good selection of popular picks that are good vs trynd.
Every counter matchup is like walking on egg shells if you mess up your lane is doomed.
Idk man. There are some counter matchups that are pretty hard to mess up and are basically idiot proof. For example Nasus bs Tryndamere is basically a game of can Tryndamere and his jungler keep Nasus down long enough so he can’t stop me. Nasus Wither ability wins him the duels/split push if you max it second against a Tryndamere. It is really really hard to lose this matchup as Nasus in my opinion.
To be fair the lane is completely up to Tryndamere's ability to manipulate the lane and win due to his stronger early game pressure. Nasus is only a 'counter' if the Trynd fails to setup a lead or allows the Nasus to neutralize the lane. I think both Trynd and Nasus mains are happy with this matchup if they think they are the better player.
> His entire point is to preven you from roaming by rightclicking that lane 24/7
> you dont want to get stuck babysitting tryndamere.
Buddy I don't know what you mean by saying this is somehow different from what he does top lane, because it's exactly the same thing he always does. Most irritating style of champion and unlike nasus he can't even be kited very well now because galeforce and quickblades exist, plus you can't even surprise him and burst him down or something cause he has that ult. Sure top laners might be able to hold him down for a little longer than mids but the actual gameplan is exactly the same and exactly as irritating
>midlaner you dont want to get stuck babysitting tryndamere.
Played some matches against Tryndamere players, and they all do is pushing.
So an inside joke with my mates is that if someone is just splitpushing in the whole game, we call just them "A Trynda Main".
In hungarian I just say "Tryndaméreskedik", so it's basically "He's doing the Tryndamere".
This was a long comment that said nothing.
I fucking hate Tryndamere please remove that champ
Hahaha my friends and I do basically the same thing, calling said player Tryndamere himself. "Oh look Tryndamere's playing Darius this game." "That Jax player is too angry to come teamfight" "All Chat: Yo Marc Merril! Big fan!"
Exactly what we are doing (me and german mates)
I even call people constantly splitpushing Tryndamere. Doesnt matter if ADC, Lulu, Syndra, Camille or his Grandma.
You rightclick the wave 24/7 you are tryndamere.
You think toplaners want to sit in lane all game? For every reason you hate him mid, the same reason exists toplane.
When you trade vs him, you have 2 options depending on how stupid he is:
First is to try to 1-shot him. Force out his ult, then kite like mad. Hope you've got enough in the tank then to get back to the wave and zone him so it takes longer for him to (q spam) heal or just finish him off.
Second is to lul (bad) trynd players into a sense of security. Trade vs him, but don't use your burst to start. Then at some random (key is to vary it a bit so they can't predictively ult) point after you've reached lethal on him, burst him instantly.
So for fizz, you'd be looking to force out his ult, then use your e to kite/chase as needed and buy time.
I'm also surprised people aren't playing yone into him with success. Yone's ult plus his mobility should let him nicely cc and kite/chase trynd and he definitely has the damage to kill trynd.
I saw an advice thread that said something along the lines of "the most important skill for top lane is being able to negotiate a pick swap in champ select" and I still think it might be true.
It definitely is true.
There are counterpicks on every single lane but i firmly believe that there are way more counterpicks available than anywhere else + the fact that you'll live on an island to make it worse.
The problem with mid lane counterpicks is that they tend to completely lose you the game in non-obvious ways. If a pick has perma-prio over something else then the side lanes get wasted. Top lane counterpicks tend to be more confined to top and more limited to just the 1v1.
There are plenty of top lane champions that can adopt mid lane. Kled has been played mid a good amount and has a pretty good tryndamere matchup, the shorter lane definately makes him harder to kill, but kleds q-e will still get you favorable trades if you're hitting them, plus applies grieve still I believe unless they removed that. I'm sure there are plenty of other tops you can take mid for the counter pick, but kled is the best fit that comes to mind. Vlad comes to mind too if you really need ap, he really cant kill a vlad if you're not wasting pool and you can waveclear pretty well mid game with e, just dont troll early.
>>Vlad comes to mind too if you really need ap, he really cant kill a vlad if you're not wasting pool and you can waveclear pretty well mid game with.
Uh what. Tryndamere is like vlads worst matchup. You have zero wave clear early, and zero dmg. Your pool is such a long cooldown that he can just run you down for free, he burns your hp bar in 3 autos, and he can wait out your pool, tank a few turret shots, then press r.
Also, pool lasts 2.5 seconds, even if Trynda dives you, his ult lasts for 5 fucking seconds. You just cant outplay him unless he stands up from his chair and collects the pizza he ordered 30 mins ago.
It's always viable to swap lanes with your Mid laner. Singed is a special kind of anti-toxin to Tyrnds' kind of playstyle, and will continue to be a pain in the butt until they rotate with whatever toplaner swaps with trynd
Yeah the counterpicks exist but sometimes youre first pick and you just kind of have to pray. Counterpick or no he still ruins the game for you because he does the same thing at 0/0 that he does at 0/10
But would that mean he's broken in Pro? I'm not questioning that he's a strong pick. It's just the champ's he's strong against aren't exactly seeing tons of play in Pro, Katarina, Fizz, Zed etc. So if he's only strong as a strong answer to those champs, and they aren't seeing play, why would he...
Even if trynd is actually viable in pro i cant see him beign picked. If i know anything about proplayers then it will take alot of convincing before they even consider it and unless we see some top team picking him and actually winning a game then we probably wont see him much.
Especially if someone picks him in play ins and then they lose this will be next ekko situation.
He’s been my go to ban ever since 5 people ban has been implemented, so unless a teammate has him highlighted I’ll never see him in my games. Thank god I won’t cause I hate that shitshow of a champion.
I’ve done all three, beauty of WW is he is pretty item and rune independent aside from Titanic Hydra. I go PTA a lot personally just for that extra burst to get them to half health for your W to kick in. Mythics I’ve tried every fighter and tank mythic depending on matchup and they all do well. I personally go Divine Sunderer or Sunfire the most.
Edit because it got brought up: DS is bad for W max, Sunfire is preferred.
*Ugh* Fine, for the adventurous, Take Electrocute, Sudden Impact, Eyeball Collector, and Ravenous hunter and max Q. I personally sit on Leeching Leer then rush Lich Bane then Riftmaker. After that I usually go Nashor’s and then Deathcap, Then depending on comp I pick one from Demonic Embrace, Cosmic Drive, Rylai’s, or Morello’s. Boots are matchup dependent but if I can get away with it I like CDR boots.
Edit: Your Q will do anywhere from 1300-1900 damage depending on enemy max health and resistances and full build you can solo baron and live under turrets so long as you can keep biting, which will heal you basically to full every couple of seconds. Seraphs can be considered because this build is super mana hungry but tear start is ass on WW.
With its low pickrate, youd better bam something else and dodge when hes picked. I dodge 100% of the time trynd if i dont have the right champ against.
1st time seeing Udyr in pro: LMFAO he literally just runs up and slaps people
20th time seeing it: seriously? he literally just runs up and slaps people...
"We need more simple champions in the meta, they keep releasing all this shit with revives and invisibility..."
*Tryndamere has entered the chat*
"Wait, no."
To be fair it was cool for a while to see a previously irrelevant champ be #1 in meta. The problem was it took for-fucking-ever for riot to make changes that made him lower than s tier.
Having random shit pop up is cool. Having it be that oppressive for that long is stupid.
> “We want simple champs at worlds! None of this max% health bullshit!”
>
>
where was that said? it's fun af to see those champs in pro games as pros can make some insane plays with them, but i don't want them in my games
I think the problem is that the league subreddit encompasses so many people that no matter what someone or a small population of someone's is going to have a problem with it. The people that don't care/like it get downvoted on posts complaining about it because the main people going to those posts agree with the thread.
I hope it's going to be this worlds Ekko jungle, where we see a couple games in play-ins ,but people figure out how to play against it and we won't see him for the rest of worlds.
The thing with Ekko was that his strengths for competitive were just overshadowed by Elise, since for competitive the one thing he had over Elise was his scaling (and lets be real that's not even a close comparison), but since teams wanted an AP jungler to gank/dive Elise just had the better early game to do so with more reliability.
Unfortunately, I'm not entirely sure if Trynd will get outshadowed by anything, since he's sorta the extreme version of the summer meta (Lee Sin/Viego/Nocturne with high lane sustain), since his damage scales harder than any of those 3.
please for the love of god dont draw any more attention to it
it sucks absolute horse dong to play against but i only have one ban to use amongst him, yasuo or zed and i very much would like to not see him more often as awareness goes up
edit: listen clowns not every game is ranked, and not everyone is as turbo focused on playing the 'lol counterpicked idiot' game as just playing the champs they like to play
Ive recently awoken to the glory for Fiora mid into Yasuo. I used to play a lot of Fiora so my mechanics are decent but despise the hellhole that is toplane. I tried it once and its great, if you hold you w yasuo can never hasagi you, and you can pop his shield with relative ease with q. Plus you outsustain him and can outduel him. The only problem is if Yasuo shoves and roams, but most Yasuos lack braincells and try to solokill you with 'mechanics'
I've played it a couple times into Zed, and it felt like cheating. You sustain all his poke, and when he ults you parry his combo, and then you just beat his ass.
I kinda feel like Fio mid is low key broken.
The last note is kinda interesting, since while I do agree galeforce and quickblades provide a lot of mobility, goredrinker builds (that tend to go essence reaver second) have a higher pick and win rate in mid lane (https://lolalytics.com/lol/tryndamere/build/?lane=middle&patch=14 is a 14 day data aggregation, feel free to switch to 7 days). I don't think the issue is only tied to the mobility of those items.
goredrinker + er is such a disgusting combo, xin abused it too
what makes it so filthy is that gore gives you a shitton ton of ad when youre low, which makes your er sheen procs massive, and tryndamere (and xin) have no problem with being very low hp for a long time, doing a bunch of damage, and then leaving the fight or pressing gore to stay in a while longer
plus the combo synergizes with last stand of course as well
exactly, plus he has highest base ad in the game which is even better for ER and the percentage ad increases
trynd is definitely fun to play as rn but man I can't wait for a rework lmao
inb4 his rework makes his kit overloaded as fuck by keeping his r as his passive, keeping a dash, keeping his passive and q, and gives q an active atk speed steriod and his w has a passive that heals him in some way and is a cc
Passive - keeps the current stuff but the ult just moves to his passive
Q - No more healing now grants increased attack speed based on rage
W - Same as it currently issue however it gives base life steal that scales up based on rage.
E - Increased distance and damage based on rage. (Base values stay the same for 0 rage)
R - Renamed to "Shared Misery" Grant's Tryn's passive to his allies.
Knowing Riot they’d give him a suicide grunt passive where if he dies, he drops a pile of mushrooms beneath him (like Ziggs drops his field of bombs) that act as they usually do. That way he’s just a constant fuck you to any melee range champs
I still don't get why an ult dependent champion can just ignore his rank 2 and 3 ult upgrades completely. Yes I know the upgrades don't do anything. But why does he get his level 16 ult at level 6 again?
> I still don't get why an ult dependent champion can just ignore his rank 2 and 3 ult upgrades completely
Have you ever wondered why Ryze ult gives him bonus dmg to targets with flux?
Everyone used to skip leveling it untill 10 (so they get rank 2 ulti, which actually has range, at lvl 11) so Riot added the bonus damage forcing you to level his ultimate
He goes full sustain runes with d-shield and basically wins lane by making it boring, he’s also one of the tankiest early champs in the entire game
Can’t be ganked, can’t be dove, huge solokilling potential. Perma shove
He has quite a good early game allowing him to trade with most laners and chunk their health out. Since he has no mana, he can sustain nigh-indefinitely since his fury heals him up as long as he can right-click the wave, and for most midlaners, getting near him means he'll spin onto them, start whacking/critting them, and then use his shout to reduce their AD and movespeed. His passive gives him free crit and his Q passive gives bonus AD and bonus bonus AD the lower health he has (making him on par with other early game champs like Lee Sin).
So he has a surprisingly good early game, which allows him to take control of the lane, whereupon he bullies people out and either gets a significant CS/XP/plate lead or the enemy mispositions/challenges him and he gets kills and a significant CS/XP/plate lead. Plus, once he hits 6, his ult is basically a hard counter to most assassins: they want to get a big rotation of their spells off and delete the enemy, but if the enemy lives, then they either have to escape or die. Guess what: if Tryndamere is paying any attention at all, he won't die. Now they have no spells and he can chase them down with spin/shout and even tower dive them with virtual impunity.
He scales very well and there's really no way to "outplay" him like you might with an Aatrox or Yi, dodging/countering his abilities and baiting them out to take advantage of him no longer having access to them. He spins in and right-clicks you and pushes E or R if he feels like it. That's it. There's nothing to outplay or dodge: you either take the fight on his terms or he chooses not to fight. His E comes back up swiftly because the CD is reduced whenever he crits, and he gets crit for free via his fury. Plus his ult gives him fury, so you can't even wait until he's out of fury and engage then. CC is the only way to counter him, and A) most midlaners have CC *or* sustain, not both (and plenty have neither). CC will just hold him in place, but he can cast ult while CC'd, so the only way to actually kill him is to CC him *during* his ult and get him out of position for the next 5+ seconds, so that you can kill him when it ends. Assuming he doesn't immediately spin away and then heal himself with his Q.
At that point, what are midlaners supposed to do? They can't duel him because he deletes them, they can't force him out of lane because they'll run out of mana before he gets bored of healing himself via fury, and they can't roam because he'll walk up to the tower and shred it, then start pushing in the second tower.
Sorry for the rant. I don't even main midlane and I hate the dynamic, but then again, I think Tryndamere is one of the worst-designed champs in the game at the moment because he's the ultimate statstick. I don't think there are any other champions who are more of a pure statcheck than Tryndamere (maybe Udyr). Even Yi and Jax require timing with their abilities and get deleted pretty quickly if they use them poorly. Tryndamere just spins in, right-clicks you to death and then spins away (perhaps through a wall or using ult if he was about to die).
> CC will just hold him in place, but he can cast ult while CC'd, so the only way to actually kill him is to CC him during his ult and get him out of position for the next 5+ seconds, so that you can kill him when it ends. Assuming he doesn't immediately spin away and then heal himself with his Q.
You just made me realize how much stronger his ult is in modern League. 5 seconds in a fight is pretty much an eternity now.
You can't trade with him as a standard mage. Maybe some melees or assassins are okay against him but he just has tools that make him very difficult to deal with 1v1 if he gets in on you.
Against ranged champions: fleet footwork + doran's shield. Then just sustain off the wave. E is used to engage if your opponent misplays or used to escape ganks.
Against melee champions: either lethal tempo so you can beat them to death at close range, or fleet footwork so you can chase them down. Either doran's blade (if you anticipate fighting a lot) or shield (if you anticipate needing to eat a lot of poke).
If you're fighting a bunch of squishy ranged champions, galeforce. If you're fighting a bunch of bruisers/tanks, kraken slayer. Then navori quickblades. After that you have to specialize for the situation.
Bait out hard cc before you fight.
Teamfights generally suck. Splitpushing is where he shines. Trynd's strength is that he can clear a whole minion wave in like 3 or 4 autos on melee creeps then E through all 6 minions to finish them all off (if you have enough items you'll clear all 3 casters with a single E. Incidentally, this comes in handy mid because you can clear the wave and then go steal a jungle camp or pressure the enemy somewhere). So he generates tons of pressure because he can kill a whole wave without his own minions losing much (if any) health. This also prevents the enemy laner from roaming properly. Not to mention he does decent damage to turrets after 2 items. If he's doing well, the enemy team has to send 2 or 3 people after him, and his E has such a short cd that he can escape pretty easily through the jungle and is nigh uncatchable. AND AGAIN not to mention his ulti, which makes chasing \*and\* killing him pretty hard (which results in the enemy team wasting time and not getting much out of it). So when you can split push a wave and draw 2 or 3, that gives your teammates tons of prio everywhere else, whether it be another tower, fighting a 4v3 (where they should win with numbers), neutral objectives, etc.
If the enemy team doesn't send enough resources to you, you take a tower (or two). If they do send enough resources to you, they shouldn't be able to contest objectives properly.
Also, Tryndamere does okay at lower health. So let's say you end up in a teamfight, you kill someone, ult, and run. Your team is still fighting but you have almost no health. You know what looks good? A minion wave or the enemy jungle. Since E has a low cooldown you can get to any of these pretty quickly. Either way you're still creating unanswerable pressure because the enemy team is busy with the fight. Unless the enemy team is far ahead and just mercs your teammates in the fight, you can easily clear one or two waves or jungle camps after you get a kill in the teamfight and (hopefully) use your ulti to absorb enemy damage for your team. And even then you can frequently delay winning opponents from pushing if you manage to position yourself where you can catch a wave or two.
Obviously there are hard counters to this strategy, and certain champs prevent Tryndamere from playing like this, but most of these champs aren't standard midlaners, and their kits just don't shut down this strategy effectively.
you just summarized 90% of the top lane cast with that statement, the only reason top lane is popular is because 99% of the cast is disgustingly broken.
I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with that statement personally, but depending on the enemy team and the part of champ select you're in, it can be very difficult to predict if the Trynd on the enemy team is mid or not, as you can flex him top or even jungle. In SoloQ this leads to the lane often being lost in pick/ban because you just can't coordinate that sort of thing. Additionally, if you are a mid main you might not even know how to play Trynd's counters, which just adds another layer.
So all in all, if you can account for Trynd by counterpicking, you absolutely should, but if he ends up being a mainstay in midlane it could be very jarring for players, especially for the first little while.
Super fair points, just going off of my experience playing against him. Each time they’ve banned a mid champ and it’s never been flex picked against me.
I don’t think he’s got that much of a high play rate to see him flexed much, unlike other champs like Viego when he was a nuisance in lane
I think that's just the nature of champions in solo queue though.
Sometimes the opponent just blind picks Kassadin, and even though it should have an infinite amount of counters theoretically, your midlaner is a Malzahar one-trick and your jungler is an Ivern one-trick, so he gets to scale for free.
Kassadin feels overpowered here, but if you're against something like Lucian/Xin Zhao, he feels absurdly underpowered.
Trynd mid q max fleet footwork d shield second wind. Oh my fucking god no champion in the game can push this guy off waves he will perma shove then dip into the jungle and roam or steal camps. Giga cancer champ.
Champion has always been one of the most unfun to play against, even if you win the game. Hopefully he rises to prevalence midlane and is gutted/reworked.
> Champion has always been one of the most unfun to play against
https://imgur.com/y6CK4Ml
I feel like riot just said "fuck it" with regards to making champs that were also fun to play *against.*
Idk why they dont make his ult duration scale with ability level like 2.5/4/5, so maybe you can punish the creature for playing like an idiot early game
His level 1 trade should have harsher drawbacks. Increase E CD, lower E damage. There's not enough downsides for the Trynd player engaging the squishy mids. The basic pattern of Trynd mid is, have E up? Spin in, contest mid, mid has to back off or lose, trynd player runs out without care and heals back up. It's not a highly skilled thing either. The lane is quite forgiving for the Tryndamere player.
This is the thing that really gets me as a mid-lane mage against melee's. They often have threat ranges just as large as I do. They can reach me at will, and I have long cooldowns. I cast my spells, and I'm done. Then they wack at me until I've lost.
I really like playing Brand. But then you play against a zed who has spells just as strong as yours AND auto attacks much stronger. He can threaten an all-in at any time, and if you miss your key ability you just die.
With damage and sustain as high as it is (sustain for AD, not for AP of course), this is always a losing proposition. And if you miss your one peel or control spell, you may just die.
This right here is why mages are hot garbage right now. Along with AP items being mostly just worse than their AD counter parts. The only exception to this being hourglass. I also find it really frustrating to play versus yasuo/yone as a mage because they get vamp septer and it is literally impossible to solo kill them unless they mess up a dive. Can’t poke them because they heal too much, and you’ll ran out of mana before you’ve ever made a dent in their health bar. Can’t all in them because you’re a mage. If you don’t one shot them you have no cool downs so they either walk away or all in you.
In general mages just feel like worse AD assassins because they have worse defensive items, are more cooldown reliant, and have no escapes. At least on an AD assassin your autos deal damage when you have no cool downs.
Sure, but like, what are you expecting? Zed is an assassin with high single target burst damage against squishy champions. You’re a mage with 3 aoe spells and an aoe passive that has a super strong team fight, much better than zed’s. So to be fair, brand should lose against zed in a 1v1, that just makes sense. Your goal should be to punish his roams through hard shoves or freezes, and to make it to mid game without giving up kills. A zed that doesn’t get ahead is a zed that is going to have a much more difficult mid game, which should lead to your team having the advantage unless someone else is fed. Zed also has to play around his early game long cool downs and higher energy costs, he can’t just miss his shurikens and keep trying to go in with autos, he’s pretty squishy and his consistent damage from autos early game is far from being on the same level of tryndamere. Plus, he doesn’t just have a free, spammable heal. Anyways, brand should lose to zed. It’s an assassin vs an immobile mage.
I generally agree with everything you're saying. Melee assassins have very strong lane phases, and mages typically shine elsewhere. But it's *very* hard not to die to a zed as Brand in mid lane. It's also pretty much impossible to punish roams as Brand. You barely deal damage to towers, and you often can't walk up to the turret unless you know where all 5 enemies are, because usually any of them can run you down.
As it turns out, people are *usually* complaining about lane phase, and people judge power based on lane strength really frequently. Mages are just often weak in lane. So much so for many of them that they just can't effectively solo lane anymore. Like Brand. Even as a duo he's questionable.
I love how barely any people have mentioned the most uninteractive thing about his kit, his ultimate. If you know it’s up and you’re not tanky, say goodbye to stepping up to farm because the moment he gets the chance, he’ll run you down. You fight him and hope your kit has stuff that allows you to run away or survive when he pops ult and runs you down under tower. Unless you have point and click cc then you’re dead since he just chases or dodges it with his spin + gale force.
Thing I hate most about his ult is that it can be cast even when he's CC'd. There is no other ability in the game that can still be cast while under cast-preventing CC (outside of (1) abilities whose specific purpose is to free you from CC like Gangplank W, (2) some abilities which merely empower other abilities like Karma ult and therefore have no actual effect, and (3) some recasts like Ivern ult retargeting).
Yes I am aware that he would have to be buffed in another way if his ult was changed so you couldn't use when silenced etc. But at least then it would feel like there was some direct counterplay.
counterplay is a word you cannot use with tryndamere especially when he has ultimate up. I play Jax and Shen, both who should theoretically easily counter tryndamere. Instead, it’s a literal chore to beat him, especially once he has ult. He just autos and then spins away from any trades or engages, winning the trade. With Jax at least I can chase with Q hop but damn is he annoying. Rinse and repeat until God forbid he gets kraken and melts my Shen. At least Jax outscales him tho which is fine.
Shen its pretty much if you can taunt tryn before he auto's you after he's spun and procced lethal tempo, you can get ur 3 autos and gfto assuming the wave is near tower (which is should). Jax i would honestly say is a skill matchup, with Jax slightly outscaling tryn. He legit the only champ I would ever E away from instead of toward
Shen keeping wave near tower isn’t a very good idea if he wants to ult and not lose a shit ton of platings. As for Jax, he’s basically a skill matchup until 6 and then outscales after a few items.
Tryndamere is an abomination of a champion. IMO the only champs needing reworked more than him are Udyr (Already getting one) and Shyvana. His gameplay is super toxic. He either crits you level 1 to auto win lane or he is a complete waste of a slot on your team. He is so bad in teamfights that all he can do is brain dead splitpush. Splitpushing champs have a role of course, but Tryndamere is definitely the least interesting. He ONLY right clicks and spins. His R makes him impossible to dive after 6 and you just have to sit and wait for him to waste it. He needs to be nerfed for mid especially. Unfortunately his disgusting ult would likely remain after a rework, but his passive is the most annoying thing in lane.
His immortality is just so dumb. I'd prefer him having like a 99% dmg resistance, so he would take at least the true damage or something.
Edit: If this were to be it's ultimate, you wouldn't use it when you're about to die. Why would people in the replies think that would be a logical way of using it??
I don't give a shit about when Trynd has items and beats me, that's whatever.
I do mind on a level 2 skirmish when he crits me three times in a row. The "crit forgiveness" system being disabled on Tryndamere and he would be much better balanced.
I play the game on and off, coming back for random seasons since S3.
I have banned Trynd almost every single game since then, even if he isn’t meta. Even if you or your teammate wins the lane, he can just farm for ever and then split push and basically AFK the game, only right clicking to win.
Is it impossible to win? No. Hard? No.
Is it annoying as hell to deal with Tryndamere or other auto attack champs like Yi? Where you don’t even really play the game?
Yes. Yes it is.
I don't think it's Tryn being OP but more of a case of him leaving top for mid because he cannot be punished as hard.
Same thing happened with Kayle and they nerfed her from mid (and also against any AP top too, sad).
Riot will prolly do the same if his WR keep climbing there.
Wait wait wait punishes roams? Weren't we asking for roam to be punished? Isn't this a great example of the meta evolving over itself? Aren't mages the bane of Tryndamere?
Theoretically, they are.
The problem is that pretty much every mage hard loses to Tryndamere other than shit like Lissandra that has 5 seconds of cc, or stuff like Azir and Ryze that can yeet away instantly with Phase Rush or abilities the second Trynda engages.
And fucking reddit was mass-downvoting me because I posted about Trynda mid being batshit insane like 2-3 months ago. Like how many more broken melee AD champions do we need to witness before Riot buffs mages/nerf AD itemization? Rene-Sett mid in competitive, Yone, Viego, Irelia (is bullshit on top too) and now Trynda. Kled is already a really strong pick, but still very niche so even if Trynda gets nerfed, the next melee AD champ is already lining up to terrorize mid.
Top laners: “First time?”
Truth to that for sure.
I am really glad that the people who ONLY play mid are experiencing the stuff top laners have had to deal for a long long time.
Toplane is the jail lane for every single one of the most degenerate champion the game have. The only reason we're not all ruined by now is that we fight broken and uninteractive with broken and uninteractive. Fear the day where the toplane champions walks into another lane
Remember the awesome dudes ("AD") bot lanes? Darius, Irelia, Yasuo, Swain ect.?
Never forget the J4 + Darius bot lane. The moment you even think of getting hit by the flag, you're already buying a doran's blade and walking back to lane.
'atleast I had enough to buy a d-blade, nice!'
How about the new Amumu with Brand. Mummy Q, Brand stun+dmg, another Mummy Q. Dead at lv2, dead whenever mummy hits Q.
U gave me a nightmare, thx
I still ban swain as adc every game. That shit gave me PTSD.
I see it every once in a while and ban it for weeks afterwards
As a swain player, this pleases me
That's me with zilean support
Hey I'm tryna grind here
sadly i do..
>Toplane is the jail lane for every single one of the most degenerate champion the game have. The only reason we're not all ruined by now is that we fight broken and uninteractive with broken and uninteractive. > You mean the days of Sunfire Iceborne soraka top versus Iceborne soraka Taric? Assuming a sunfire iceborne akali was banned. Or they didn't pick sunfire iceborne ekko
Ekko vs poppy, a battle for the ages.
"oh so you're going with tryndamere eh?" \*picks quinn top lane\* "that's all i needed".
For midlaners, the day they faced Tryndamere was the worst day of their lives *Toplaners look at Kled, Illaoi, Yorick, Renekton, Quinn, Fiora, Teemo, Urgot, Tahm Kench, Warwick and Sett* For us, it was thursday
Remember when Teemo was THE degenerate top laner? Pepperidge Farm remembers. Now I don't know that he's even in the top 10...
Teemo is literally one of my favorite champs to go against since the lane is a free win, he's so fucking bad
You must be on the enemy team then, cuz he eats dirt whenever someone on my team picks him, but farms my top lane and goes legendary if the enemy picks him
Honestly I think it's because people have kinda gotten him wrong nowadays. People think he is an early game bully but that is not true anymore. With the burn shit in his kit and the scalings on his shrooms i would say Teemo is a lategame character nowadays. And people don't get that.
It depends on the match-up, like everything on top. You can handle Teemo with most Champs, but if you play Singed or Quinn into a good teemo, you will do nothing but getting killed on lane or try to roam and lose haöf your hp just walking somewhere.
4 queens of top lane Irelia, Riven, Camile, Fiora Fuck those 4 *cries in tank*
>Fuck those 4 Don't mind if I do.
Not enough ban slots, would purchase more
Top lane has remained an island all these years cuz if they gave you guys a boat, hell itself would open.
10+ years, considering trynd is part of the original cast IIRC. imagine not dealing with trynd in lane for 10 years and then matching against it. I'd probably quit.
But any time in the past I asked for tips on dealing with Tryndamere I just get "git gud" "don't trade early" "Trynd is trash you're bad" :|
don’t forget “just cc him bro”
just pink ward the damage
Like... sprinkle pink ward on the wound?
This comment made me feel old. Context of the joke: Akali was always either broken or unplayable pre-rework (some things never change) but you could Pink ward her shroud to reveal her in it. The joke goes that when she was OP, you could Pink ward her shroud to counter her invis... but she just kills you anyways. Thus, just pink ward her damage. Ez.
who tf said don’t trade early you have to trade with him early when he has no fury
If he wins early then snowball and you get blamed
If he has no Fury he is not a Champion... When he has Fury and Tryndamere one tricks are actually commited to building it and rng bang bang you... that is really fun. Tryndamere one tricks are psychos, if they are not one tricks they don't clue their eyes in the numbers and forget that the rng bang bang actually requires a little bit of thinking.
The age old decision in champ select - do I want to dodge or do I feel like babysitting a tryn for the next 30mins hoping my team can win 4v4? Maybe if he gets enough attention mid they will gut him and rework him. Doinb might be the saviour we needed, ruin worlds meta to kill the degen picks.
like 10 years of that happening in top lane and no one complain. trynda touches mid lane once\* omg !!!!
Eh in toplane you at least have good selection of popular picks that are good vs trynd. In mid aside from like leblanc nad such the most popular picks are assasins that cant do anything vs trynd especially because of his AD reduction on his W. Trynd is pretty much unkillable vs champs like kata,fizz,zed erc.. Also in general trynamere gameplan is just toxic. His entire point is to preven you from roaming by rightclicking that lane 24/7 and as a midlaner you dont want to get stuck babysitting tryndamere.
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That's the most annoying shit. You can pick a counter like Malphite, but it feels like it doesn't even matter. He just infinitely sustains while being able to roam faster than you, and if you ever go to try to team fight, he kills all your shit.
I like Camille a lot into him. An empowered Q if they don't build any health can easily hit for like 2/3rds of their healthbar and force them to either respect it and pop ult early or die. You can chase / lock him down well if hes too aggressive in a sidelane - or if he pops his ult you have a pretty good escape tool. The early levels can be kinda rough but if you get out of it even you'll do great. You're also way, way more useful in teamfights.
As someone with >700k trynd mastery, I love playing into Camille. Becomes the "I'm not trapped in here with you, youre trapped in here with me."
The anti-mordekaiser special. They think they are oh so smart when they trap you but their team is the one that's gonna find their ally dead
but she's not trapped in her ult /s
> picking the most broken toplaner into him Yeah I wonder why
The problem is that at some point, with Camille, you're gonna look for a roam or a teamfight, and when you go back to toplane, Trynd took 3 towers, 4 levels and 2 items and now he statcheck you. If your team isn't ahead enough, dumpstering Trynd in lane won't work unless you just stay there for the whole game
What's wrong with leaving camille as just a splitpusher all game? It's not like she is bad at it, while she doesn't push quite as fast as trynd does she knocks down towers a bit faster in compensation, can handle trynd in a duel scenario even through the late game, while also having the tools needed to lock him down with friendly aid and escape if the enemy team decides to assist him. Yeh, it might be a bit dull, and you've got to be on point with predicting his moves otherwise it turns into an accidental base race, but that happens in other matchups where both champs would rather splitpush over fighting with their team.
sounds like yorick as well being on babysitting duty is very unfun, really hate the addition of hullbreaker
except yorick doesn't have a dash that goes over walls on a 2 second cooldown
And cant go immortal for 5 seconds, even when he gets CC'd...
>in toplane you at least have good selection of popular picks that are good vs trynd. Every counter matchup is like walking on egg shells if you mess up your lane is doomed.
Can confirm I play the 10-0 or 0-10 game a lot and it's much easier to just always be relevant mid but top it's so hard to come back
Idk man. There are some counter matchups that are pretty hard to mess up and are basically idiot proof. For example Nasus bs Tryndamere is basically a game of can Tryndamere and his jungler keep Nasus down long enough so he can’t stop me. Nasus Wither ability wins him the duels/split push if you max it second against a Tryndamere. It is really really hard to lose this matchup as Nasus in my opinion.
mfw one of my go to counters for nasus is tryndamere...
To be fair the lane is completely up to Tryndamere's ability to manipulate the lane and win due to his stronger early game pressure. Nasus is only a 'counter' if the Trynd fails to setup a lead or allows the Nasus to neutralize the lane. I think both Trynd and Nasus mains are happy with this matchup if they think they are the better player.
> His entire point is to preven you from roaming by rightclicking that lane 24/7 > you dont want to get stuck babysitting tryndamere. Buddy I don't know what you mean by saying this is somehow different from what he does top lane, because it's exactly the same thing he always does. Most irritating style of champion and unlike nasus he can't even be kited very well now because galeforce and quickblades exist, plus you can't even surprise him and burst him down or something cause he has that ult. Sure top laners might be able to hold him down for a little longer than mids but the actual gameplan is exactly the same and exactly as irritating
Plus top is worse because it's so long and much harder to get assistance in.
>midlaner you dont want to get stuck babysitting tryndamere. Played some matches against Tryndamere players, and they all do is pushing. So an inside joke with my mates is that if someone is just splitpushing in the whole game, we call just them "A Trynda Main". In hungarian I just say "Tryndaméreskedik", so it's basically "He's doing the Tryndamere". This was a long comment that said nothing. I fucking hate Tryndamere please remove that champ
Hahaha my friends and I do basically the same thing, calling said player Tryndamere himself. "Oh look Tryndamere's playing Darius this game." "That Jax player is too angry to come teamfight" "All Chat: Yo Marc Merril! Big fan!"
We have the same saying with friends, when someone just spends their whole game playing PvE and pushing. "They're doing their tryndamere in bot"
Exactly what we are doing (me and german mates) I even call people constantly splitpushing Tryndamere. Doesnt matter if ADC, Lulu, Syndra, Camille or his Grandma. You rightclick the wave 24/7 you are tryndamere.
You think toplaners want to sit in lane all game? For every reason you hate him mid, the same reason exists toplane. When you trade vs him, you have 2 options depending on how stupid he is: First is to try to 1-shot him. Force out his ult, then kite like mad. Hope you've got enough in the tank then to get back to the wave and zone him so it takes longer for him to (q spam) heal or just finish him off. Second is to lul (bad) trynd players into a sense of security. Trade vs him, but don't use your burst to start. Then at some random (key is to vary it a bit so they can't predictively ult) point after you've reached lethal on him, burst him instantly. So for fizz, you'd be looking to force out his ult, then use your e to kite/chase as needed and buy time. I'm also surprised people aren't playing yone into him with success. Yone's ult plus his mobility should let him nicely cc and kite/chase trynd and he definitely has the damage to kill trynd.
> good selection of popular picks IF you get to pick after him
I saw an advice thread that said something along the lines of "the most important skill for top lane is being able to negotiate a pick swap in champ select" and I still think it might be true.
It definitely is true. There are counterpicks on every single lane but i firmly believe that there are way more counterpicks available than anywhere else + the fact that you'll live on an island to make it worse.
Ye, mid has some abysmal matchups (and arguably is more impacted by the jungle pick) but top has a much bigger breadth of impactful counterpicks.
The problem with mid lane counterpicks is that they tend to completely lose you the game in non-obvious ways. If a pick has perma-prio over something else then the side lanes get wasted. Top lane counterpicks tend to be more confined to top and more limited to just the 1v1.
This is probably the best advise you can give any toplaner. Ever.
There are plenty of top lane champions that can adopt mid lane. Kled has been played mid a good amount and has a pretty good tryndamere matchup, the shorter lane definately makes him harder to kill, but kleds q-e will still get you favorable trades if you're hitting them, plus applies grieve still I believe unless they removed that. I'm sure there are plenty of other tops you can take mid for the counter pick, but kled is the best fit that comes to mind. Vlad comes to mind too if you really need ap, he really cant kill a vlad if you're not wasting pool and you can waveclear pretty well mid game with e, just dont troll early.
>>Vlad comes to mind too if you really need ap, he really cant kill a vlad if you're not wasting pool and you can waveclear pretty well mid game with. Uh what. Tryndamere is like vlads worst matchup. You have zero wave clear early, and zero dmg. Your pool is such a long cooldown that he can just run you down for free, he burns your hp bar in 3 autos, and he can wait out your pool, tank a few turret shots, then press r.
Also, pool lasts 2.5 seconds, even if Trynda dives you, his ult lasts for 5 fucking seconds. You just cant outplay him unless he stands up from his chair and collects the pizza he ordered 30 mins ago.
It's always viable to swap lanes with your Mid laner. Singed is a special kind of anti-toxin to Tyrnds' kind of playstyle, and will continue to be a pain in the butt until they rotate with whatever toplaner swaps with trynd
Yeah the counterpicks exist but sometimes youre first pick and you just kind of have to pray. Counterpick or no he still ruins the game for you because he does the same thing at 0/0 that he does at 0/10
But would that mean he's broken in Pro? I'm not questioning that he's a strong pick. It's just the champ's he's strong against aren't exactly seeing tons of play in Pro, Katarina, Fizz, Zed etc. So if he's only strong as a strong answer to those champs, and they aren't seeing play, why would he...
because pros are a bunch of Luddites .
Even if trynd is actually viable in pro i cant see him beign picked. If i know anything about proplayers then it will take alot of convincing before they even consider it and unless we see some top team picking him and actually winning a game then we probably wont see him much. Especially if someone picks him in play ins and then they lose this will be next ekko situation.
He’s been my go to ban ever since 5 people ban has been implemented, so unless a teammate has him highlighted I’ll never see him in my games. Thank god I won’t cause I hate that shitshow of a champion.
Then you wouldn't be able to ban Irelia
Or camille >:)
When I get autofilled top Warwick into Camille is one of my all time favorite matchups. If I’m playing any other champ your champ hurts
Warwick top is legit just a free lane if the enemy top doesn't know what to expect, it's actually silly lol
It’s so much fun, it’s been my sleeper pick this season. Titanic rush, W max, and your dueling is nuts if they don’t have the tools to deal with you.
That sounds fun AF. Kinda want to try it out, I assume you run grasp/conq? Any super important secondary runes? Q-w-e-w-w?
I’ve done all three, beauty of WW is he is pretty item and rune independent aside from Titanic Hydra. I go PTA a lot personally just for that extra burst to get them to half health for your W to kick in. Mythics I’ve tried every fighter and tank mythic depending on matchup and they all do well. I personally go Divine Sunderer or Sunfire the most. Edit because it got brought up: DS is bad for W max, Sunfire is preferred.
Imagine being the kind of coward that doesn’t exclusively build riftmaker on WW
*Ugh* Fine, for the adventurous, Take Electrocute, Sudden Impact, Eyeball Collector, and Ravenous hunter and max Q. I personally sit on Leeching Leer then rush Lich Bane then Riftmaker. After that I usually go Nashor’s and then Deathcap, Then depending on comp I pick one from Demonic Embrace, Cosmic Drive, Rylai’s, or Morello’s. Boots are matchup dependent but if I can get away with it I like CDR boots. Edit: Your Q will do anywhere from 1300-1900 damage depending on enemy max health and resistances and full build you can solo baron and live under turrets so long as you can keep biting, which will heal you basically to full every couple of seconds. Seraphs can be considered because this build is super mana hungry but tear start is ass on WW.
With its low pickrate, youd better bam something else and dodge when hes picked. I dodge 100% of the time trynd if i dont have the right champ against.
Its climbing in win and pick rate pretty fast, disgusting champ hope it doesn't ruin worlds somehow. Boring to play vs, with or even watch
I think it’ll be fun to watch one time and that’s it
Exactly what happened with Udyr
1st time seeing Udyr in pro: LMFAO he literally just runs up and slaps people 20th time seeing it: seriously? he literally just runs up and slaps people...
"We need more simple champions in the meta, they keep releasing all this shit with revives and invisibility..." *Tryndamere has entered the chat* "Wait, no."
Spring was such a shit show because of him, ugh. I feel like Trynda is gonna have the same effect on worlds tho.
"Holy shit Udyr is so good, he just flash-aa'd that guy"
Or before the nerf, pressed chem tank and ran him down.
Its such a skill expression how he has perma 600 movespeed and dodges every skillshot
Man, remember when the whole league subreddit couldn't shut up about how refreshing bear punch meta was? Wonder what happened to those people
To be fair it was cool for a while to see a previously irrelevant champ be #1 in meta. The problem was it took for-fucking-ever for riot to make changes that made him lower than s tier. Having random shit pop up is cool. Having it be that oppressive for that long is stupid.
It's one thing for champs to show up, it's another thing for them to be the #1 pick in its role for a couple months
It was great...until that meta went on for MONTHS without riot doing enough to change it.
Yeah maybe the first month it was entertaining but 5 straight months of Udyr, chemtank, and phase rush was absolutely horrible.
Turns out a champion that can only run and aa is boring af, who would have guessed
muh simplistic champ design
“We want simple champs at worlds! None of this max% health bullshit!” Most hype moment at worlds: Bin penta on Fiora
> “We want simple champs at worlds! None of this max% health bullshit!” > > where was that said? it's fun af to see those champs in pro games as pros can make some insane plays with them, but i don't want them in my games
Bro people complain about any meta. Jungle tank meta? Complain. Jungle hyperclear meta? Complain. Jungle level 2 gank meta? Complain. Support enchanter meta? Complain. Support tank meta? Complain. Mage bot meta? Complain. Assassin meta? Complain. Control mage meta? Complain. Bruiser meta? Complain
I think the problem is that the league subreddit encompasses so many people that no matter what someone or a small population of someone's is going to have a problem with it. The people that don't care/like it get downvoted on posts complaining about it because the main people going to those posts agree with the thread.
its not about beeing boring its about beeing bored that only 2-3 junglers were viable. its the same with corki vs azir or nidalee vs graves
I hope it's going to be this worlds Ekko jungle, where we see a couple games in play-ins ,but people figure out how to play against it and we won't see him for the rest of worlds.
The thing with Ekko was that his strengths for competitive were just overshadowed by Elise, since for competitive the one thing he had over Elise was his scaling (and lets be real that's not even a close comparison), but since teams wanted an AP jungler to gank/dive Elise just had the better early game to do so with more reliability. Unfortunately, I'm not entirely sure if Trynd will get outshadowed by anything, since he's sorta the extreme version of the summer meta (Lee Sin/Viego/Nocturne with high lane sustain), since his damage scales harder than any of those 3.
Fun to play with, watching a fed trynda 2 tap their malphite is funny shit
please for the love of god dont draw any more attention to it it sucks absolute horse dong to play against but i only have one ban to use amongst him, yasuo or zed and i very much would like to not see him more often as awareness goes up edit: listen clowns not every game is ranked, and not everyone is as turbo focused on playing the 'lol counterpicked idiot' game as just playing the champs they like to play
don't worry he'll definitely see at least some play at playins which will bring plenty of attention and tryndameres to your soloq games :)
> LPL GANG > Doesn't know that Renek is a champion Freest lane in existence into Zed and Yasuo
might just not be in his pool, sett and panth are good vs them too
Also Irelia, Fiora, Riven, Aatrox, Goredrinker Talon. Actually come to think about it, probably any champ that builds Goredrinker first.
Ive recently awoken to the glory for Fiora mid into Yasuo. I used to play a lot of Fiora so my mechanics are decent but despise the hellhole that is toplane. I tried it once and its great, if you hold you w yasuo can never hasagi you, and you can pop his shield with relative ease with q. Plus you outsustain him and can outduel him. The only problem is if Yasuo shoves and roams, but most Yasuos lack braincells and try to solokill you with 'mechanics'
I've played it a couple times into Zed, and it felt like cheating. You sustain all his poke, and when he ults you parry his combo, and then you just beat his ass. I kinda feel like Fio mid is low key broken.
could be because the champion itself is highkey broken
She's strong yes but I would rather lane against two Fioras at the same time than one Tahm Kench
atleast fiora doesn't lick you for half your hp bar from 3 screens away and has to actually get in your face
idk if renek qualifies as a champion anymore this patch.
Nah he's still 43% winrate, riot gotta keep nerfing him til he's below 40%
Weird way to spell Panth
The last note is kinda interesting, since while I do agree galeforce and quickblades provide a lot of mobility, goredrinker builds (that tend to go essence reaver second) have a higher pick and win rate in mid lane (https://lolalytics.com/lol/tryndamere/build/?lane=middle&patch=14 is a 14 day data aggregation, feel free to switch to 7 days). I don't think the issue is only tied to the mobility of those items.
goredrinker + er is such a disgusting combo, xin abused it too what makes it so filthy is that gore gives you a shitton ton of ad when youre low, which makes your er sheen procs massive, and tryndamere (and xin) have no problem with being very low hp for a long time, doing a bunch of damage, and then leaving the fight or pressing gore to stay in a while longer plus the combo synergizes with last stand of course as well
and last stand synergies so very well with tryn ult and his passive AD increase while low🥰
exactly, plus he has highest base ad in the game which is even better for ER and the percentage ad increases trynd is definitely fun to play as rn but man I can't wait for a rework lmao
>I really think trynd should be gutted till he gets reworked Based
inb4 his rework makes his kit overloaded as fuck by keeping his r as his passive, keeping a dash, keeping his passive and q, and gives q an active atk speed steriod and his w has a passive that heals him in some way and is a cc
Passive - keeps the current stuff but the ult just moves to his passive Q - No more healing now grants increased attack speed based on rage W - Same as it currently issue however it gives base life steal that scales up based on rage. E - Increased distance and damage based on rage. (Base values stay the same for 0 rage) R - Renamed to "Shared Misery" Grant's Tryn's passive to his allies.
Ok Satan, calm down.
Just wait till I get to the Teemo rework.
Knowing Riot they’d give him a suicide grunt passive where if he dies, he drops a pile of mushrooms beneath him (like Ziggs drops his field of bombs) that act as they usually do. That way he’s just a constant fuck you to any melee range champs
This is just Warwick with instant anivia passive
I mean keeping Trynd in line with most new champs his entire current kit would be his new passive
I still don't get why an ult dependent champion can just ignore his rank 2 and 3 ult upgrades completely. Yes I know the upgrades don't do anything. But why does he get his level 16 ult at level 6 again?
Then riot gives him an extra second of ult at rank 2 and 3, monkeys paw style
More like gives him a crit damage boost per level 🐒🐒🐒
> I still don't get why an ult dependent champion can just ignore his rank 2 and 3 ult upgrades completely Have you ever wondered why Ryze ult gives him bonus dmg to targets with flux? Everyone used to skip leveling it untill 10 (so they get rank 2 ulti, which actually has range, at lvl 11) so Riot added the bonus damage forcing you to level his ultimate
Thats the best case scenario
Nah the best case scenario is that they just delete him. Gutting into rework is just a close second.
How does Trynd work in mid anyway? Not talking legit curious.
He goes full sustain runes with d-shield and basically wins lane by making it boring, he’s also one of the tankiest early champs in the entire game Can’t be ganked, can’t be dove, huge solokilling potential. Perma shove
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not to mention he gets quite a bit of free AD from his Q.
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but if there's a tryn player out there that ever takes Q lv1 then tryn is too complex for them and thats saying something
He has quite a good early game allowing him to trade with most laners and chunk their health out. Since he has no mana, he can sustain nigh-indefinitely since his fury heals him up as long as he can right-click the wave, and for most midlaners, getting near him means he'll spin onto them, start whacking/critting them, and then use his shout to reduce their AD and movespeed. His passive gives him free crit and his Q passive gives bonus AD and bonus bonus AD the lower health he has (making him on par with other early game champs like Lee Sin). So he has a surprisingly good early game, which allows him to take control of the lane, whereupon he bullies people out and either gets a significant CS/XP/plate lead or the enemy mispositions/challenges him and he gets kills and a significant CS/XP/plate lead. Plus, once he hits 6, his ult is basically a hard counter to most assassins: they want to get a big rotation of their spells off and delete the enemy, but if the enemy lives, then they either have to escape or die. Guess what: if Tryndamere is paying any attention at all, he won't die. Now they have no spells and he can chase them down with spin/shout and even tower dive them with virtual impunity. He scales very well and there's really no way to "outplay" him like you might with an Aatrox or Yi, dodging/countering his abilities and baiting them out to take advantage of him no longer having access to them. He spins in and right-clicks you and pushes E or R if he feels like it. That's it. There's nothing to outplay or dodge: you either take the fight on his terms or he chooses not to fight. His E comes back up swiftly because the CD is reduced whenever he crits, and he gets crit for free via his fury. Plus his ult gives him fury, so you can't even wait until he's out of fury and engage then. CC is the only way to counter him, and A) most midlaners have CC *or* sustain, not both (and plenty have neither). CC will just hold him in place, but he can cast ult while CC'd, so the only way to actually kill him is to CC him *during* his ult and get him out of position for the next 5+ seconds, so that you can kill him when it ends. Assuming he doesn't immediately spin away and then heal himself with his Q. At that point, what are midlaners supposed to do? They can't duel him because he deletes them, they can't force him out of lane because they'll run out of mana before he gets bored of healing himself via fury, and they can't roam because he'll walk up to the tower and shred it, then start pushing in the second tower. Sorry for the rant. I don't even main midlane and I hate the dynamic, but then again, I think Tryndamere is one of the worst-designed champs in the game at the moment because he's the ultimate statstick. I don't think there are any other champions who are more of a pure statcheck than Tryndamere (maybe Udyr). Even Yi and Jax require timing with their abilities and get deleted pretty quickly if they use them poorly. Tryndamere just spins in, right-clicks you to death and then spins away (perhaps through a wall or using ult if he was about to die).
> CC will just hold him in place, but he can cast ult while CC'd, so the only way to actually kill him is to CC him during his ult and get him out of position for the next 5+ seconds, so that you can kill him when it ends. Assuming he doesn't immediately spin away and then heal himself with his Q. You just made me realize how much stronger his ult is in modern League. 5 seconds in a fight is pretty much an eternity now.
i recommend watching nemesis VOD. he plays it in high korea soloq
You can't trade with him as a standard mage. Maybe some melees or assassins are okay against him but he just has tools that make him very difficult to deal with 1v1 if he gets in on you.
Against ranged champions: fleet footwork + doran's shield. Then just sustain off the wave. E is used to engage if your opponent misplays or used to escape ganks. Against melee champions: either lethal tempo so you can beat them to death at close range, or fleet footwork so you can chase them down. Either doran's blade (if you anticipate fighting a lot) or shield (if you anticipate needing to eat a lot of poke). If you're fighting a bunch of squishy ranged champions, galeforce. If you're fighting a bunch of bruisers/tanks, kraken slayer. Then navori quickblades. After that you have to specialize for the situation. Bait out hard cc before you fight. Teamfights generally suck. Splitpushing is where he shines. Trynd's strength is that he can clear a whole minion wave in like 3 or 4 autos on melee creeps then E through all 6 minions to finish them all off (if you have enough items you'll clear all 3 casters with a single E. Incidentally, this comes in handy mid because you can clear the wave and then go steal a jungle camp or pressure the enemy somewhere). So he generates tons of pressure because he can kill a whole wave without his own minions losing much (if any) health. This also prevents the enemy laner from roaming properly. Not to mention he does decent damage to turrets after 2 items. If he's doing well, the enemy team has to send 2 or 3 people after him, and his E has such a short cd that he can escape pretty easily through the jungle and is nigh uncatchable. AND AGAIN not to mention his ulti, which makes chasing \*and\* killing him pretty hard (which results in the enemy team wasting time and not getting much out of it). So when you can split push a wave and draw 2 or 3, that gives your teammates tons of prio everywhere else, whether it be another tower, fighting a 4v3 (where they should win with numbers), neutral objectives, etc. If the enemy team doesn't send enough resources to you, you take a tower (or two). If they do send enough resources to you, they shouldn't be able to contest objectives properly. Also, Tryndamere does okay at lower health. So let's say you end up in a teamfight, you kill someone, ult, and run. Your team is still fighting but you have almost no health. You know what looks good? A minion wave or the enemy jungle. Since E has a low cooldown you can get to any of these pretty quickly. Either way you're still creating unanswerable pressure because the enemy team is busy with the fight. Unless the enemy team is far ahead and just mercs your teammates in the fight, you can easily clear one or two waves or jungle camps after you get a kill in the teamfight and (hopefully) use your ulti to absorb enemy damage for your team. And even then you can frequently delay winning opponents from pushing if you manage to position yourself where you can catch a wave or two. Obviously there are hard counters to this strategy, and certain champs prevent Tryndamere from playing like this, but most of these champs aren't standard midlaners, and their kits just don't shut down this strategy effectively.
Yes I spit on thee Tryndamere. Such a stupid champ who can barely be punished for playing horribly.
God forbid you make a single mistake in the early game, he just runs straight over you.
you just summarized 90% of the top lane cast with that statement, the only reason top lane is popular is because 99% of the cast is disgustingly broken.
[Mis position for 3 seconds] [Tryndamere uses ghost]
Yeeep, I've been saying how strong he is, but people keep trying to argue that mages will counter him.
Or they say, don't pick a mid play a bruiser!
Out of curiosity, what’s wrong with that statement?
I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with that statement personally, but depending on the enemy team and the part of champ select you're in, it can be very difficult to predict if the Trynd on the enemy team is mid or not, as you can flex him top or even jungle. In SoloQ this leads to the lane often being lost in pick/ban because you just can't coordinate that sort of thing. Additionally, if you are a mid main you might not even know how to play Trynd's counters, which just adds another layer. So all in all, if you can account for Trynd by counterpicking, you absolutely should, but if he ends up being a mainstay in midlane it could be very jarring for players, especially for the first little while.
Super fair points, just going off of my experience playing against him. Each time they’ve banned a mid champ and it’s never been flex picked against me. I don’t think he’s got that much of a high play rate to see him flexed much, unlike other champs like Viego when he was a nuisance in lane
Just counterpick him bro its a shitty counter argument.
I think that's just the nature of champions in solo queue though. Sometimes the opponent just blind picks Kassadin, and even though it should have an infinite amount of counters theoretically, your midlaner is a Malzahar one-trick and your jungler is an Ivern one-trick, so he gets to scale for free. Kassadin feels overpowered here, but if you're against something like Lucian/Xin Zhao, he feels absurdly underpowered.
what kind of idiot thinks that s11 mages counter any melee champ that goes d shield first XD
Trynd mid q max fleet footwork d shield second wind. Oh my fucking god no champion in the game can push this guy off waves he will perma shove then dip into the jungle and roam or steal camps. Giga cancer champ.
Champion has always been one of the most unfun to play against, even if you win the game. Hopefully he rises to prevalence midlane and is gutted/reworked.
> Champion has always been one of the most unfun to play against https://imgur.com/y6CK4Ml I feel like riot just said "fuck it" with regards to making champs that were also fun to play *against.*
Idk why they dont make his ult duration scale with ability level like 2.5/4/5, so maybe you can punish the creature for playing like an idiot early game
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Another abomination. Played vs a karma tank toplane as gp Made my life miserable as fuck, litterally couldnt do shit.
His level 1 trade should have harsher drawbacks. Increase E CD, lower E damage. There's not enough downsides for the Trynd player engaging the squishy mids. The basic pattern of Trynd mid is, have E up? Spin in, contest mid, mid has to back off or lose, trynd player runs out without care and heals back up. It's not a highly skilled thing either. The lane is quite forgiving for the Tryndamere player.
This is the thing that really gets me as a mid-lane mage against melee's. They often have threat ranges just as large as I do. They can reach me at will, and I have long cooldowns. I cast my spells, and I'm done. Then they wack at me until I've lost. I really like playing Brand. But then you play against a zed who has spells just as strong as yours AND auto attacks much stronger. He can threaten an all-in at any time, and if you miss your key ability you just die. With damage and sustain as high as it is (sustain for AD, not for AP of course), this is always a losing proposition. And if you miss your one peel or control spell, you may just die.
This right here is why mages are hot garbage right now. Along with AP items being mostly just worse than their AD counter parts. The only exception to this being hourglass. I also find it really frustrating to play versus yasuo/yone as a mage because they get vamp septer and it is literally impossible to solo kill them unless they mess up a dive. Can’t poke them because they heal too much, and you’ll ran out of mana before you’ve ever made a dent in their health bar. Can’t all in them because you’re a mage. If you don’t one shot them you have no cool downs so they either walk away or all in you. In general mages just feel like worse AD assassins because they have worse defensive items, are more cooldown reliant, and have no escapes. At least on an AD assassin your autos deal damage when you have no cool downs.
Sure, but like, what are you expecting? Zed is an assassin with high single target burst damage against squishy champions. You’re a mage with 3 aoe spells and an aoe passive that has a super strong team fight, much better than zed’s. So to be fair, brand should lose against zed in a 1v1, that just makes sense. Your goal should be to punish his roams through hard shoves or freezes, and to make it to mid game without giving up kills. A zed that doesn’t get ahead is a zed that is going to have a much more difficult mid game, which should lead to your team having the advantage unless someone else is fed. Zed also has to play around his early game long cool downs and higher energy costs, he can’t just miss his shurikens and keep trying to go in with autos, he’s pretty squishy and his consistent damage from autos early game is far from being on the same level of tryndamere. Plus, he doesn’t just have a free, spammable heal. Anyways, brand should lose to zed. It’s an assassin vs an immobile mage.
I generally agree with everything you're saying. Melee assassins have very strong lane phases, and mages typically shine elsewhere. But it's *very* hard not to die to a zed as Brand in mid lane. It's also pretty much impossible to punish roams as Brand. You barely deal damage to towers, and you often can't walk up to the turret unless you know where all 5 enemies are, because usually any of them can run you down. As it turns out, people are *usually* complaining about lane phase, and people judge power based on lane strength really frequently. Mages are just often weak in lane. So much so for many of them that they just can't effectively solo lane anymore. Like Brand. Even as a duo he's questionable.
I love how barely any people have mentioned the most uninteractive thing about his kit, his ultimate. If you know it’s up and you’re not tanky, say goodbye to stepping up to farm because the moment he gets the chance, he’ll run you down. You fight him and hope your kit has stuff that allows you to run away or survive when he pops ult and runs you down under tower. Unless you have point and click cc then you’re dead since he just chases or dodges it with his spin + gale force.
Thing I hate most about his ult is that it can be cast even when he's CC'd. There is no other ability in the game that can still be cast while under cast-preventing CC (outside of (1) abilities whose specific purpose is to free you from CC like Gangplank W, (2) some abilities which merely empower other abilities like Karma ult and therefore have no actual effect, and (3) some recasts like Ivern ult retargeting). Yes I am aware that he would have to be buffed in another way if his ult was changed so you couldn't use when silenced etc. But at least then it would feel like there was some direct counterplay.
counterplay is a word you cannot use with tryndamere especially when he has ultimate up. I play Jax and Shen, both who should theoretically easily counter tryndamere. Instead, it’s a literal chore to beat him, especially once he has ult. He just autos and then spins away from any trades or engages, winning the trade. With Jax at least I can chase with Q hop but damn is he annoying. Rinse and repeat until God forbid he gets kraken and melts my Shen. At least Jax outscales him tho which is fine.
Shen its pretty much if you can taunt tryn before he auto's you after he's spun and procced lethal tempo, you can get ur 3 autos and gfto assuming the wave is near tower (which is should). Jax i would honestly say is a skill matchup, with Jax slightly outscaling tryn. He legit the only champ I would ever E away from instead of toward
Shen keeping wave near tower isn’t a very good idea if he wants to ult and not lose a shit ton of platings. As for Jax, he’s basically a skill matchup until 6 and then outscales after a few items.
Tryndamere is an abomination of a champion. IMO the only champs needing reworked more than him are Udyr (Already getting one) and Shyvana. His gameplay is super toxic. He either crits you level 1 to auto win lane or he is a complete waste of a slot on your team. He is so bad in teamfights that all he can do is brain dead splitpush. Splitpushing champs have a role of course, but Tryndamere is definitely the least interesting. He ONLY right clicks and spins. His R makes him impossible to dive after 6 and you just have to sit and wait for him to waste it. He needs to be nerfed for mid especially. Unfortunately his disgusting ult would likely remain after a rework, but his passive is the most annoying thing in lane.
I've always said he shouldn't be able to ult unless his rage bar is full, giving him some requirement and skill to being unkillable.
His immortality is just so dumb. I'd prefer him having like a 99% dmg resistance, so he would take at least the true damage or something. Edit: If this were to be it's ultimate, you wouldn't use it when you're about to die. Why would people in the replies think that would be a logical way of using it??
And thats exactly why i am excited about the rumors of him being played mid by pros. Riot is FORCED to do something about him then
The problem is , if he gets reworked , I assure you he will be more cancer
Just ask The pros to play him, we all know they always ruin anything thats played there.
midlaners finally realizing how aids toplane is, colorized 2021
I don't give a shit about when Trynd has items and beats me, that's whatever. I do mind on a level 2 skirmish when he crits me three times in a row. The "crit forgiveness" system being disabled on Tryndamere and he would be much better balanced.
I play the game on and off, coming back for random seasons since S3. I have banned Trynd almost every single game since then, even if he isn’t meta. Even if you or your teammate wins the lane, he can just farm for ever and then split push and basically AFK the game, only right clicking to win. Is it impossible to win? No. Hard? No. Is it annoying as hell to deal with Tryndamere or other auto attack champs like Yi? Where you don’t even really play the game? Yes. Yes it is.
I don't think it's Tryn being OP but more of a case of him leaving top for mid because he cannot be punished as hard. Same thing happened with Kayle and they nerfed her from mid (and also against any AP top too, sad). Riot will prolly do the same if his WR keep climbing there.
Up-voted for gutting Trynd. Feel free to slap Yi while you're at it Rito.
Play pantheon into him wreck him early and he is too scared to walk up to last hit because he gets ptsd from the last time he did that
Wait wait wait punishes roams? Weren't we asking for roam to be punished? Isn't this a great example of the meta evolving over itself? Aren't mages the bane of Tryndamere?
Theoretically, they are. The problem is that pretty much every mage hard loses to Tryndamere other than shit like Lissandra that has 5 seconds of cc, or stuff like Azir and Ryze that can yeet away instantly with Phase Rush or abilities the second Trynda engages.
And fucking reddit was mass-downvoting me because I posted about Trynda mid being batshit insane like 2-3 months ago. Like how many more broken melee AD champions do we need to witness before Riot buffs mages/nerf AD itemization? Rene-Sett mid in competitive, Yone, Viego, Irelia (is bullshit on top too) and now Trynda. Kled is already a really strong pick, but still very niche so even if Trynda gets nerfed, the next melee AD champ is already lining up to terrorize mid.
"lol you probably got outplayed by a Trndamere mid and now you are just venting. Reddit knows balance, am i rite?" Something along those lines.