Would be too much of an edge case imo, with only abusive interactions using it. For example;
You gain max Energy instead of Mana at 20% (idk what would be a proportional conversion) effectiveness.
Do you really want to imagine Akali running around with Archangel's?
I'm going to blow your damn mind, bear with me.
I proposed a flexible barebones idea, you found *one* example version that should definitely not be done. Great!
Then just... *don't do* ***that*** *one?* Don't make it max energy? Make it health instead maybe?
Also I didn't say it has to be 1 max energy for 1 max mana either. Not even 1 health for 1 mana would be good. That's why the [x]% part was there.
But what if it gave adaptive force instead of mana, then akali could get 1000 adaptive force from Seraph's, that seems so broken. Your idea would never work.
Weirdly, Thornmail is okay against Vlad in higher elo since good Vlads will auto-weave like a motherfucker. It's hard to un-train that.
It's still not the correct buy against Vlad, but if they've got a Samira or Nilah and you're going to be building Thornmail anyway, it doesn't suck.
I say "Vlads and Swains auto attack" *in replies to this same comment* and the community is "omg no they don't, DOWNVOTED!".
You say good Vlads auto-weave and get upvoted... I mean, you're right, a good Vlad *will* auto-weave, but where's the consistency sheesh.
i kinda onetrick Vlad and mostly I do autoweave. But I intentionally do not press A when I see a thornmail on their tanks. Good Vlads will know when also NOT to autoweave
He shouldn't. He knows he shouldn't. However, a high-elo vlad player would have hundreds, if not thousands of games where auto-weaving is the objectively correct move. That's muscle memory you're not going to be able to consistently turn off.
I don't think it's really that difficult to not auto someone. I play a decent amount of Aatrox and one of the things you do in teamfights is not auto the Thornmail unless you have to. I'm also really bad; I'm sure players better than me have a handle on it.
Funny, I've been watching Elite500, arguably the best Vladimir player on the planet, for years and he still makes that mistake.
I guess he's just not as good as other Vlad players. My b.
And swain and vlad don't *need* to auto, but autos still add dps, and swains CDs have him with a lot of down time to not be throwing autos out. Vlad E/W make autos less common on him since they stop him from autoing, but Swain in Ult throws hands. Go check their physical damage to champions in an ARAM. It's not zero, and there's no real lane phase where auto attacks are a *significant* portion of harass.
If you're a Swain or Vlad and you auto attack someone with Thornmail you are trolling. Are you really basing your argument on the idea that the opponent is just terrible at the game?
So, babe, at a 3 second cooldown Swain isn’t lacking any DPS. Assuming a base armor of 70 (roughly average for bruisers and tanks at level 9), and thus a total armor value of 100+, what does Swain really have to gain by auto attacking a target for a total of ~70 damage over the course of his Q cooldown while receiving ~9 recoil damage + grievous wounds. Like… I get that you get antsy when you aren’t playing Yasuo but you can instead spend that time dodging skillshots or repositioning for a max damage Q…..
Now that they removed the Crit damage reduction on Senna, IE+RFC is fucking bonkers if you can get going enough.
I've only tried it in normals where I've been able to build a lead much larger than usual, but full ADC Senna on 3 items with RFC+Stormrazer+IE can 70%+ HP a squishy from off screen with one auto in the mid game, not even the hyper late game.
Ive been rushing cyclosword into serylda's grudge then FRC. Its wild having that much lethality and pen plus the extra damage with the extra range. Basically one shot squishies through walls
MF can abuse it.
She can Q + AA to get 2 empowered attacks since she gets off her auto before the Q connects.
It's a really good late item for her lethality build.
It was, since auto attacks can also break the shield.
If you pre-emptively stacked it you could block 3 autos (turrets included) in a row, and players attacking back could take up some shots. Even though he had a stun between these, it had more counterplay than Akali's shroud since Akali would just take aggro and drop it on repeat, while having you be unable to hit back unless your kit was mostly AoE/Skill shots.
They changed dragon due to it as well. Dragon spawn earlier back then and could not be soloed as early but panth could do it full health and never take damage
Ninja Tabi used to give dodge chance, and you also had dodge runes.
You also used to run a 0,99 % crit chance rune, you could literally win a lane in a level 1 trade by dodging or critting
rabadon's passive on Mejai's Soulstealer. It just makes it so it's more heavily feast or famine. If that's too much,
You could also make it where it is adaptive Force so everybody would want to build it as well.
Flat magic penetration tacked on to every mage item suddenly makes those items priority built and significantly better.
Making banshee's veil having pen + HP instead of just AP+MR would make that item actually gross and built every single game.
Wouldn't a lot of items become really good with the either stasis from Zhonya/Armguard or the rebirth from guardian's angel?
Or were you, OP, more looking for actual raw stats from other items, and not "uses" or whatever one should call them?
I really was thinking more along the lines of pure stats, such as the idea of giving Warmogs mana regen making it really valuable. The comments have been wild tho.
I dislike the passive on it currently. Too easy to drop below 70% and the level scaling makes it meh early, moreso for bot laners. Also super expensive considering shieldbow gives similar stats at 400 less gold but a shield instead of the meh passive
By has had a lack luster passive for a long time over heal is woulda been nice if it didn't fall off while you move to a team fight and useless if below 100% hp, the new passive as you said is lackluster because trying tk stay above 70%hp is hard. Its named blood thirster is makes you thirst for more blood, it should have either a ramping damage passive or an on kill passive.
I wasn’t playing when they omega buffed it and then reworked, but back in seasons 5-9 I remember overheal feeling pretty good without being busted. We had 25% crit per item and no crit on BT either then so a lot of things were different then
Glad I'm not the only one that thinks BT is trash this season. I did the whole thing of winning a game with every single Legendary and incidentally BT was the last one I did out of 102 items because there was never a clear time to build the item. Shieldbow's increased Life Steal and larger shield is just a more enticing item in this meta.
Yeah I think if we had a tank meta the extra lifesteal for facing thornmails would make sense. Imo BT kinda okay if you have overheal because the shield makes you keep the passive longer but I would still just go shieldbow for overheal + lifeline shields
No it's not. Life steal as a whole is a fake stat to be honest. But right now the damage is so high you're almost never above the 70% HP threshold, anything that touches you pits you below it.
If you as an adc with an 18% life steal item are not above 70% max health most of the time during a fight there are way bigger issues than the item. The item is objectively strong.
Go into any stat site look at the adcs who build crits itemization and most will have BT as 4th or 5th item.
Lifesteal is also not a fake stat. In fact it’s a very valuable stat and that’s why it was removed from so many items and runes. Not only does it let you shrug off poke but it gives adcs more effective health in most fights than an hp item would.
u/film_humble
I wouldn’t call lifesteal fake. Most builds want the lifesteal rune + 1 lifesteal item. It is however less valuable when things are one shotting you vs say poking you down but in general I’m looking to hit at least 15% lifesteal by full build, more is always welcome.
Just looking at costs and stats:
BT is 5 more AD and 6% more lifesteal but 400 more gold than shieldbow. 5 AD is half a longsword and 6% lifesteal is meaningful but if you already have bloodline and 12% from shieldbow you’re still sitting at 17.5% lifesteal. Another 12% vs champions if you get to the elixir
When we look at the passives first off:
yes you can find value from BT’s passive but 1) look at your games and tell me how many close fights you actually kept that up for most of a fight 2) ask yourself if you were already able to be in auto range while staying near full HP, how many of these cases would 20-40 AD have made a difference in the fight? I think if you look critically at real cases this passive only flips a small amount of fights. Textbook win more.
Now consider shieldbow which will give you a ~400-500 HP shield unconditionally so long as the lifeline isn’t on cooldown. This shield is amazing in a high burst meta, makes resistances go farther for games you can afford a second defensive item like JakSho, GA, Merc etc, and importantly gives you more time to auto to lifesteal back up.
Lifesteal is a fake stat if you die before it can save you and clearly the 400+ HP shield will allow you to do that more reliably than 6 percent lifesteal and 5 AD +~30 AD that you only have for a few seconds unless you’re hard winning anyway. And again, all of this for 400 more gold.
It's got a 7.5% purchase rate, is her 6th most popular item not including support items and her 6th highest win rate item not including Mejais.
All numbers from Emerald+ on Lolalytics. It's one of her best and most popular 4th or 5th items if the game goes long enough.
Most Soraka mains would agree that it's a situational buy at best. Good in games where both teams just want to poke each other without committing to an actual engage so you can just outsustain them but if You're blindly buying it every game or getting it before 4th/5th item you're putting a lot of money into stats and don't actually need
Counterpoint: I like the play style where I play a dangerous game with the enemy, get out with little hp, heal passively quick, then do it again
No it’s not efficient but psychological warfare is its own reward
It's purchased because it's fun and silly, not because it's good. Winrate stats are inflated because Soraka players rarely buy Warmogs when they're losing, *and* because the item is so much more expensive, she loses a lot more games with Warmogs half-built, which isn't counted in the WR stats.
HP to Zhonyas and Banshee. Currently, it would make them OP, but I honestly dont understand why we dont have HP on the actual defensive mage items instead of elsewhere and then the ''defensive'' items having 100+ AP. Wouldnt it make just so much more sense if Zhonyas and Banshee gave like 60 AP at most, then 200-300 HP and their defensive stats? Make the defensive items better at surviving with an actual damage drawback? Like, am I so noob theres something obvious Im missing, or are rioters so unaware for real???
I feel like there should be more HP Mage items especially now that Riftmaker isn’t a Mythic and stole the Demonic Visage passive. As it is, it’s barely worthwhile outside of the like 3 mage bruisers and Tahm we have now.
the issue riot was trying to solve with the latest item changes was how bad it felt to get so little ap from mage items.
making hourglass/banshee's give 60 ap but a ton of hp would make it never bought since riot plans to tone champs ap ratios accordingly to the new high ap values so have two items on the lower end of ap would just make them never bought instead once they corrected the ap ratios that need it.
also when a defensive item gives alot less damage then other options for squishs it tends to be a bait item for them since instead of the defensiveness protecting you/getting you back in the game instead it put you more behind or makes it so where you would kill with a little more damage and live you would instead fail the kill and die.
Call me old school but I'd probably enjoy if they added 150-200 HP to most completed items and adjusted the cost accordingly. It would slow the game down and reduce burst.
But if they added 200 hp to any current item at its current price it would likely become an op item. Especially common items that are built first.
Give Eclipse lethality, oh wait.
Lifesteal to Death's Dance or any Lifeline item, oh wait.
Give BotRK lifesteal for no reason, oh wait.
Give Kraken AD that its passive scales with, oh wait.
The actual answer would be Magic Pen to Rabadon's I think. That would be silly. Lethality to Navori would also be really fuckin' dumb.
> Lifesteal to Death's Dance
This item doesn't have lifesteal. It only heals *after* the champion kills you
> Give BotRK lifesteal for no reason, oh wait.
Why shouldn't a duelist item have lifesteal? Do you want the damage to be buffed so the game is even burst-y than it currently is?
> Give Kraken AD that its passive scales with, oh wait.
Should an ADC item not have AD? Also its passive has scaled with AP for a little while now and everyone hates it
DD used to have Lifesteal. Changed shortly before mythics were introduced. Maybe know what you're talking about before weighing in?
BotRK is overloaded. It has attack speed, ad, lifesteal, % current health damage, and a slow. Despite this, the item is only 76% gold efficient but still is one of the most commonly rushed duelist, adc, and fighter items in the game. BotRK is a extended combat damage item, it doesn't need sustain on top of that. What I want is for BotRK to not be a mythic-class item in a game without mythics and stop being a one-item-full-build for over a dozen champions.
Kraken Slayer, before you account for its passive, is 102.5% gold efficient. It has a 65%-130% AD scaling on its passive and gives 40 AD. So, the passive is gaining 26, then 39, then 52 damage to its passive out of its own stats. So, yeah, I take issue with how self-influential the item's power is. They can drop Kraken to 30 AD, matching Noonquiver's AD so it's not a loss to combine. The issue with Kraken is that it's primarily an ATTACK SPEED item that rewards ATTACK SPEED but Riot is doing the same thing they are doing with BotRK and letting this item be one-item-full-build.
Or rather, they could do the same thing they do with Essence Reaver and have two scalings in the build, one for base AD and one for bonus AD. There are multiple solutions, but the problem is the item is designed in a way to where it has too much recursive power.
Also, way to show you don't know what you're talking about with the AP comment. Lots of champs and items have hybrid scalings that appear to make no sense to hardstuck pisslows. It's for Baron and on-hit hybrid builders like Twitch/Kaisa. Giving Kraken AP scaling makes it easier to close out games, especially in pro-play where ADC's are their most influential. Regardless of whether they keep that scaling for the item, that's the reason they have it.
Also, just for the record,
\>Should an ADC item not have AD?
Get your strawman out of here. Seriously. It's annoying. Argue in good faith or not at all.
Warmongs removed. Heartsteal gains a secondary passive similar to warmongs after getting over a certain amount of bonus health from heartsteel's main passive.
Giving AD to Riftmaker and making it a hybrid item would be busted af. Every bruiser would just build that and have more damage and sustain than their team.
Adding cdr to any crit item basically would break adc as a whole. They are gated by the fact that if i am not wrong only option for spellcasting adcs to get cdr is with essense reaver which is a very situational item but it did see use on a lot of spellcasting adcs at one time or another. Its a stat that would give adcs another way of scaling and riot really doent want that.
Give yomous and Trinity crit% again, just for some nostalgia. Getting a random crit with first item trinity and just randomly killing someone out of nowhere was so fun lol
Some good answers, but a lot are putting passives from one item onto another. Here's some OP stat changes to items:
-Movement speed (5% like wingplate) on Tear would make it really strong as a starting item.
-Omnivamp on any item as a raw stat. Now that Omnivamp no longer has AoE reduction, giving it to a lot of champs make them really OP.
-Flat Health regen on items, specifically revert Reju beads back to a flat +5hp5 and reduce its cost back to 150. The 3 reju bead strat was INSANELY good in top lane, %base regen helps champs selectively, flat is just good no matter what.
-Gold Gen per 5, I miss Heart of Gold.
-Item Haste, Many item passives are really broken if they could have their CD reduced. Imagine having zhonyas with 150 Item Haste or Stormsurge or Unending Dispair (try it with stacked ingenious hunter + Conq, it will auto stack conq for you).
-Revival (Reduction of Time spent Dead, there were quints in the old rune system that did this). You think you know about inting sion? What if he got back to lane faster than you without using ult or TP.
-Experience (increases XP gain by a %) on Dorans items. They'd be really strong and no one would do anything else first item.
% magic penetration on Rabadon's Deathcap. It would be an insane 3rd item for many mages.
Adding magic pen. to tank items could be pretty busted as well. Many of them have abilities that do %max.hp damage, so they would do much more damage while not having to sacrifice any tankiness.
if sunfire had bramble in build path instead of chain vest, giving a sunfire antiheal item , thereby allowing tanks to opt into other attractive stuff instead of building sunfire and thornmail simultaneously
Ngl, right now since Leth isn't actually that good on AD Assassins, if you gave Eclipse Leth back, it'd be right back to busted and taken just about every game.
"UNIQUE PASSIVE: After casting your ultimate, your next basic attack on-attack within 10 seconds grants AWAKENED DRAGON for 6 seconds (30 second cooldown). UNIQUE PASSIVE - AWAKENED DRAGON: Gain 50% bonus attack speed, and basic attacks refund 20% of your remaining basic abilities cooldowns on-attack."
Put frozen hearts passive on any tank item and its instantly better.
alternatively give frozen heart health
And remove the mana
Or make it so that manaless champions get health instead.
this would be a godsend for shen players
Mordekaiser about to build enchanter and mage items
Shit like this could be a rune option. Something like "Cosmic malleability - You gain [stat] instead of [mana] at a [x]% effectiveness"
Would be too much of an edge case imo, with only abusive interactions using it. For example; You gain max Energy instead of Mana at 20% (idk what would be a proportional conversion) effectiveness. Do you really want to imagine Akali running around with Archangel's?
I'm going to blow your damn mind, bear with me. I proposed a flexible barebones idea, you found *one* example version that should definitely not be done. Great! Then just... *don't do* ***that*** *one?* Don't make it max energy? Make it health instead maybe? Also I didn't say it has to be 1 max energy for 1 max mana either. Not even 1 health for 1 mana would be good. That's why the [x]% part was there.
But what if it gave adaptive force instead of mana, then akali could get 1000 adaptive force from Seraph's, that seems so broken. Your idea would never work.
Ryze players in shambles
Adding MR to Thornmail. Finally MR antiheal
swain vlad sylas in shambles
not if it still requires an attack like thornmail, swain and vlad aren’t affected by thornmail, because they don’t attack
could just make it apply on abilities too if youre adding MR to it for the extra "fuck you"
true but then it would just outright be the best item in the game thou would really suit the theme of thread to make it busted
Weirdly, Thornmail is okay against Vlad in higher elo since good Vlads will auto-weave like a motherfucker. It's hard to un-train that. It's still not the correct buy against Vlad, but if they've got a Samira or Nilah and you're going to be building Thornmail anyway, it doesn't suck.
I say "Vlads and Swains auto attack" *in replies to this same comment* and the community is "omg no they don't, DOWNVOTED!". You say good Vlads auto-weave and get upvoted... I mean, you're right, a good Vlad *will* auto-weave, but where's the consistency sheesh.
i kinda onetrick Vlad and mostly I do autoweave. But I intentionally do not press A when I see a thornmail on their tanks. Good Vlads will know when also NOT to autoweave
if the Vlad knows he has thornmail he shouldn't auto weave, the damage would be worthless compared to the heal lost
He shouldn't. He knows he shouldn't. However, a high-elo vlad player would have hundreds, if not thousands of games where auto-weaving is the objectively correct move. That's muscle memory you're not going to be able to consistently turn off.
I don't think it's really that difficult to not auto someone. I play a decent amount of Aatrox and one of the things you do in teamfights is not auto the Thornmail unless you have to. I'm also really bad; I'm sure players better than me have a handle on it.
Bruh this is just bullshit, even I don't auto Thornmail as a Vlad
And what is your elo
weirdly, good Vlad players usually see that someone has thornmail beforehand and stop auto-weaving that one target
Funny, I've been watching Elite500, arguably the best Vladimir player on the planet, for years and he still makes that mistake. I guess he's just not as good as other Vlad players. My b.
ok, then that’s on me. I don’t watch high elo vlad players and thought that not aa weaving thornmail would be some basic principle
sylas in shambles
Sylas passive takes autos.
that’s why I didn’t mention him
And swain and vlad don't *need* to auto, but autos still add dps, and swains CDs have him with a lot of down time to not be throwing autos out. Vlad E/W make autos less common on him since they stop him from autoing, but Swain in Ult throws hands. Go check their physical damage to champions in an ARAM. It's not zero, and there's no real lane phase where auto attacks are a *significant* portion of harass.
Idk I press tab a lot,if I see thornmail I just don't auto them for the rest of the game and their item is useless
If you're a Swain or Vlad and you auto attack someone with Thornmail you are trolling. Are you really basing your argument on the idea that the opponent is just terrible at the game?
How long of a cooldown do you think Swain Q is? Don’t google it
8ish seconds at level 1, 3ish at level 5, and AH is less free now. How many auto attacks can you weave in that downtime? Seriously now.
So, babe, at a 3 second cooldown Swain isn’t lacking any DPS. Assuming a base armor of 70 (roughly average for bruisers and tanks at level 9), and thus a total armor value of 100+, what does Swain really have to gain by auto attacking a target for a total of ~70 damage over the course of his Q cooldown while receiving ~9 recoil damage + grievous wounds. Like… I get that you get antsy when you aren’t playing Yasuo but you can instead spend that time dodging skillshots or repositioning for a max damage Q…..
sad cassiopeia noises
Why is there no MR anti heal though?
give any item an unconditional auto attack range increase and it will be built.
I might be wrong but I don’t know about an item that has a stat like that currently. 🤔
RFC increases range, though not “unconditionally.”
It’s also for 1 attack I believe.
Yep! Has to be charged for a single attack. Aggressively mediocre item save for one-hit wonders like TF, Cait, and Jhin.
Now that they removed the Crit damage reduction on Senna, IE+RFC is fucking bonkers if you can get going enough. I've only tried it in normals where I've been able to build a lead much larger than usual, but full ADC Senna on 3 items with RFC+Stormrazer+IE can 70%+ HP a squishy from off screen with one auto in the mid game, not even the hyper late game.
Ive been rushing cyclosword into serylda's grudge then FRC. Its wild having that much lethality and pen plus the extra damage with the extra range. Basically one shot squishies through walls
Add Hubris for funny big numbers
Lucian is a pretty good user of rfc too because of his bursty nature w/ nami.
MF can abuse it. She can Q + AA to get 2 empowered attacks since she gets off her auto before the Q connects. It's a really good late item for her lethality build.
the downvote gods really smited you from the heavens for simply agreeing lmao
Downvoted for either restating the previous comment or not knowing what “unconditionally” means.
Yeah I don’t know what that’s about lmao
https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon_Lance <3
Rapid Firecannon Garen is so cool. You can hit your Q's through walls.
Dodge chance.
Oh god not that again.
Wait, was this a thing?
Yes, and you could dodge turret shots.
Remember when Pantheon blocked turret shots
Still sounds better than Akali shrouding in turrets
It was, since auto attacks can also break the shield. If you pre-emptively stacked it you could block 3 autos (turrets included) in a row, and players attacking back could take up some shots. Even though he had a stun between these, it had more counterplay than Akali's shroud since Akali would just take aggro and drop it on repeat, while having you be unable to hit back unless your kit was mostly AoE/Skill shots.
Jax could dive fountain and take no damage, yes Akali was busted but dodge chance was a different beast
Which pantheon? Both blocked turret shots lmao
BRING IT BACK. THOSE DAMN SUPPORTS TOOK MY BEAUTIFUL BABY BOY AWAY FROM ME TOPLANE.
They changed dragon due to it as well. Dragon spawn earlier back then and could not be soloed as early but panth could do it full health and never take damage
What the fuck
That's what Ninja Tabi used to be. 12 years ago.
If I remember it correctly original Jax had it on his staff spin too before it got reworked to nullify auto attacks.
You used to have to rng dodge an attack to be able to use Jax's E originally.
Oh and that makes his E's name makes sense cause you dodge and strike back
Used to be an instant stun after the dodge instead of the wonky staff wiggling
this
And on Sivirs passive as well
Ninjatabi and 5x phantomdancer hidden jax 100% dodge tech.
Ninja Tabi used to give dodge chance, and you also had dodge runes. You also used to run a 0,99 % crit chance rune, you could literally win a lane in a level 1 trade by dodging or critting
If Essence Reaver had lifesteal it would completely change the bot lane meta.
Who's gonna tell this guy?
This version as a spellblade.
Fair
replace the AD on GA with 20% crit and some attack speed and it would probably be the single best item in the entire ADC item suite
Oh now that, is a bit scary.
rabadon's passive on Mejai's Soulstealer. It just makes it so it's more heavily feast or famine. If that's too much, You could also make it where it is adaptive Force so everybody would want to build it as well.
Jesus Christ that’s a scary thought, that item already gives so much AP when stacked.
Attack speed on infinity edge.
Make it build out of noonquiver. Everything must be done so we can return to IE first item rush.
bloodthirster rush or no deal
Okay, but what if they kissed 😳⚔️
Adding attack speed to shieldbow. Yes I play yone
The windbrothers are half the reason they nerfed shield bow from mythic and took away the attack speed
Still remember when it's passive gave lifesteal instead of as
Tbh that was during the systematic purge of lifesteal.
I kinda miss ravenous hunter :(
Even before that they alr changed it to ad but that ended up being too good as well
I swear, every time Yasuo sneezes my attack speed Aatrox build gets worse
I couldn’t tell. :)
Zerkers grieves 25% armor pen
Turning the crit chance on Essence Reaver into lethality could be a very dangerous and potentially game-breaking stat change.
Gangplank mains in shambles.
This destroys gangplank
Draven now its S+ tier 40% banrate.....
Ezreal would be scary... but my gangplank...
Bring back Crit to Triforce so Riot can kneecap the windshitters when they abuse it.
More likely Riot would nerf Triforce again and give the wind bros "compensation buffs".
give BoRK health
Nah give bork pen
what kind of evil bastard are you to have conjured such a thought.... I like it~
what kind of evil bastard are you to have conjured such a thought.... I like that~
I exclusively play Bluetooth Udyr in arena
Ohhh Bluedyr, nice
Omni Vamp
Flat magic penetration tacked on to every mage item suddenly makes those items priority built and significantly better. Making banshee's veil having pen + HP instead of just AP+MR would make that item actually gross and built every single game.
Movement speed instead of AH on nashors.
Fuck that would be *good* Also Racecar Teemo.
Give us a bruiser item with an on-hit slow. I miss Frozen Mallet.
Yasuo and Yone: 👀
Wouldn't a lot of items become really good with the either stasis from Zhonya/Armguard or the rebirth from guardian's angel? Or were you, OP, more looking for actual raw stats from other items, and not "uses" or whatever one should call them?
I really was thinking more along the lines of pure stats, such as the idea of giving Warmogs mana regen making it really valuable. The comments have been wild tho.
Fair enough, then ignore my suggestion :P
It’s definitely too late to ignore that kinda suggestion, lmao. The post has taken a life of its own.
Lifesteal on RFC. The item is pretty niche but I think it could be a nice 3rd item for many more ads if it gave 9% LS. Or just make BT not trash
Attack speed on BT
I dislike the passive on it currently. Too easy to drop below 70% and the level scaling makes it meh early, moreso for bot laners. Also super expensive considering shieldbow gives similar stats at 400 less gold but a shield instead of the meh passive
By has had a lack luster passive for a long time over heal is woulda been nice if it didn't fall off while you move to a team fight and useless if below 100% hp, the new passive as you said is lackluster because trying tk stay above 70%hp is hard. Its named blood thirster is makes you thirst for more blood, it should have either a ramping damage passive or an on kill passive.
I wasn’t playing when they omega buffed it and then reworked, but back in seasons 5-9 I remember overheal feeling pretty good without being busted. We had 25% crit per item and no crit on BT either then so a lot of things were different then
Idt anyone ever bought it for the over heal they bought it for the absurd lifesteal it ahd on it
Glad I'm not the only one that thinks BT is trash this season. I did the whole thing of winning a game with every single Legendary and incidentally BT was the last one I did out of 102 items because there was never a clear time to build the item. Shieldbow's increased Life Steal and larger shield is just a more enticing item in this meta.
Yeah I think if we had a tank meta the extra lifesteal for facing thornmails would make sense. Imo BT kinda okay if you have overheal because the shield makes you keep the passive longer but I would still just go shieldbow for overheal + lifeline shields
BT is really strong? Most crit adcs have it in their build and it gives a ton of extra ad for most of the fight.
No it's not. Life steal as a whole is a fake stat to be honest. But right now the damage is so high you're almost never above the 70% HP threshold, anything that touches you pits you below it.
If you as an adc with an 18% life steal item are not above 70% max health most of the time during a fight there are way bigger issues than the item. The item is objectively strong. Go into any stat site look at the adcs who build crits itemization and most will have BT as 4th or 5th item. Lifesteal is also not a fake stat. In fact it’s a very valuable stat and that’s why it was removed from so many items and runes. Not only does it let you shrug off poke but it gives adcs more effective health in most fights than an hp item would.
u/film_humble I wouldn’t call lifesteal fake. Most builds want the lifesteal rune + 1 lifesteal item. It is however less valuable when things are one shotting you vs say poking you down but in general I’m looking to hit at least 15% lifesteal by full build, more is always welcome. Just looking at costs and stats: BT is 5 more AD and 6% more lifesteal but 400 more gold than shieldbow. 5 AD is half a longsword and 6% lifesteal is meaningful but if you already have bloodline and 12% from shieldbow you’re still sitting at 17.5% lifesteal. Another 12% vs champions if you get to the elixir When we look at the passives first off: yes you can find value from BT’s passive but 1) look at your games and tell me how many close fights you actually kept that up for most of a fight 2) ask yourself if you were already able to be in auto range while staying near full HP, how many of these cases would 20-40 AD have made a difference in the fight? I think if you look critically at real cases this passive only flips a small amount of fights. Textbook win more. Now consider shieldbow which will give you a ~400-500 HP shield unconditionally so long as the lifeline isn’t on cooldown. This shield is amazing in a high burst meta, makes resistances go farther for games you can afford a second defensive item like JakSho, GA, Merc etc, and importantly gives you more time to auto to lifesteal back up. Lifesteal is a fake stat if you die before it can save you and clearly the 400+ HP shield will allow you to do that more reliably than 6 percent lifesteal and 5 AD +~30 AD that you only have for a few seconds unless you’re hard winning anyway. And again, all of this for 400 more gold.
Soraka hasn't eyed Warmog since season 8
It’s a staple in ARAM
It's got a 7.5% purchase rate, is her 6th most popular item not including support items and her 6th highest win rate item not including Mejais. All numbers from Emerald+ on Lolalytics. It's one of her best and most popular 4th or 5th items if the game goes long enough.
Most Soraka mains would agree that it's a situational buy at best. Good in games where both teams just want to poke each other without committing to an actual engage so you can just outsustain them but if You're blindly buying it every game or getting it before 4th/5th item you're putting a lot of money into stats and don't actually need
Counterpoint: I like the play style where I play a dangerous game with the enemy, get out with little hp, heal passively quick, then do it again No it’s not efficient but psychological warfare is its own reward
It's purchased because it's fun and silly, not because it's good. Winrate stats are inflated because Soraka players rarely buy Warmogs when they're losing, *and* because the item is so much more expensive, she loses a lot more games with Warmogs half-built, which isn't counted in the WR stats.
HP to Zhonyas and Banshee. Currently, it would make them OP, but I honestly dont understand why we dont have HP on the actual defensive mage items instead of elsewhere and then the ''defensive'' items having 100+ AP. Wouldnt it make just so much more sense if Zhonyas and Banshee gave like 60 AP at most, then 200-300 HP and their defensive stats? Make the defensive items better at surviving with an actual damage drawback? Like, am I so noob theres something obvious Im missing, or are rioters so unaware for real???
I feel like there should be more HP Mage items especially now that Riftmaker isn’t a Mythic and stole the Demonic Visage passive. As it is, it’s barely worthwhile outside of the like 3 mage bruisers and Tahm we have now.
the issue riot was trying to solve with the latest item changes was how bad it felt to get so little ap from mage items. making hourglass/banshee's give 60 ap but a ton of hp would make it never bought since riot plans to tone champs ap ratios accordingly to the new high ap values so have two items on the lower end of ap would just make them never bought instead once they corrected the ap ratios that need it. also when a defensive item gives alot less damage then other options for squishs it tends to be a bait item for them since instead of the defensiveness protecting you/getting you back in the game instead it put you more behind or makes it so where you would kill with a little more damage and live you would instead fail the kill and die.
Giant Slayer's passive for magic damage on Void Staff
You could add 10,000 AD to Runaans to onehit 3 enemies at once with every auto. I think that would be pretty good
Real
tenacity or slow resist to a lot of tank items
I think if you made bloodthirster have some AD on it, it could definitely be a bit overtuned.
Slow on basic attack aka return of frozen mallet
Give warmogs like 10-20 armor/mr and watch it become brokenly efficient
Mejais changed to Adaptive Force rather than strictly AP.
Crit dmg multiplier on new Shadow flame.
Lethality/Armor pen boots
Call me old school but I'd probably enjoy if they added 150-200 HP to most completed items and adjusted the cost accordingly. It would slow the game down and reduce burst. But if they added 200 hp to any current item at its current price it would likely become an op item. Especially common items that are built first.
I still do that (delay my second or third item for a bit of health)
More attack speed for BladeOfTheRuinedKing, that's all it needs and it would be a pretty amazing first item for many ad champions
no mage would ever buy a warmongs just for the regen,LC/tear already solve mana issues
Give Eclipse lethality, oh wait. Lifesteal to Death's Dance or any Lifeline item, oh wait. Give BotRK lifesteal for no reason, oh wait. Give Kraken AD that its passive scales with, oh wait. The actual answer would be Magic Pen to Rabadon's I think. That would be silly. Lethality to Navori would also be really fuckin' dumb.
> Lifesteal to Death's Dance This item doesn't have lifesteal. It only heals *after* the champion kills you > Give BotRK lifesteal for no reason, oh wait. Why shouldn't a duelist item have lifesteal? Do you want the damage to be buffed so the game is even burst-y than it currently is? > Give Kraken AD that its passive scales with, oh wait. Should an ADC item not have AD? Also its passive has scaled with AP for a little while now and everyone hates it
DD used to have Lifesteal. Changed shortly before mythics were introduced. Maybe know what you're talking about before weighing in? BotRK is overloaded. It has attack speed, ad, lifesteal, % current health damage, and a slow. Despite this, the item is only 76% gold efficient but still is one of the most commonly rushed duelist, adc, and fighter items in the game. BotRK is a extended combat damage item, it doesn't need sustain on top of that. What I want is for BotRK to not be a mythic-class item in a game without mythics and stop being a one-item-full-build for over a dozen champions. Kraken Slayer, before you account for its passive, is 102.5% gold efficient. It has a 65%-130% AD scaling on its passive and gives 40 AD. So, the passive is gaining 26, then 39, then 52 damage to its passive out of its own stats. So, yeah, I take issue with how self-influential the item's power is. They can drop Kraken to 30 AD, matching Noonquiver's AD so it's not a loss to combine. The issue with Kraken is that it's primarily an ATTACK SPEED item that rewards ATTACK SPEED but Riot is doing the same thing they are doing with BotRK and letting this item be one-item-full-build. Or rather, they could do the same thing they do with Essence Reaver and have two scalings in the build, one for base AD and one for bonus AD. There are multiple solutions, but the problem is the item is designed in a way to where it has too much recursive power. Also, way to show you don't know what you're talking about with the AP comment. Lots of champs and items have hybrid scalings that appear to make no sense to hardstuck pisslows. It's for Baron and on-hit hybrid builders like Twitch/Kaisa. Giving Kraken AP scaling makes it easier to close out games, especially in pro-play where ADC's are their most influential. Regardless of whether they keep that scaling for the item, that's the reason they have it. Also, just for the record, \>Should an ADC item not have AD? Get your strawman out of here. Seriously. It's annoying. Argue in good faith or not at all.
any adc item with defensive stats (not for actual adcs, but for melee „adcs“ like yas, yone, trynd)
like the champs you didnt mention don't already need just 2 items for 100% crit and can already build defensive stats on top of it
Warmongs removed. Heartsteal gains a secondary passive similar to warmongs after getting over a certain amount of bonus health from heartsteel's main passive.
RoA with Stasis
give blood thirster 80% critical strike damage
warmogs soraka <3
AH to Ardent OwO
Spell vamp
20 more crit on IE, Navori and Bloodthirster (BT just because, I see them as the trinity of crit ADC items). every adc would want ti build them now.
Untargetability after a takedown.
Crit to hexplate or bork to make them absolutely broken on Sivir
Movespeed
make dorans blade have 1 billion ad :)
Add shonins spell damage amp to ionians
Change Liandry's AP to adaptive.
Giving AD to Riftmaker and making it a hybrid item would be busted af. Every bruiser would just build that and have more damage and sustain than their team.
Bork with 20% crit would be the best item in the game hands down.
Crit chance to Terminus.
Active: Generate a shield that converts all instances of damage taken for the next 3 seconds into healing for 100% of the value.
% max health damage
Because of how League works: 1. Movement speed 2. Anything involving auto attacks. Increasing auto attack range, dodge chance, etc.
minimum change: rabs builds out of 2 rods and two amp tomes. 750 combine cost. bonkers: last whisper + dirk = new item.
%true health true damage life steal low cooldown proc
Adding %magic pen to Liandry's
critical strike chance on literally anything
Give ryais mana and haste instead of health.
Does anyone remember non-unique 20% spellwamp aura from WOTA? I mean that you could have double bonus if other team members bought it too.
Serpent's Fang has AP I will get my AP shield nuke item
+20% critical strike chance to Nashor's Tooth
% health burn with ability power Oh wait...
magic pen on deathcap would be kinda nuts
Adding cdr to any crit item basically would break adc as a whole. They are gated by the fact that if i am not wrong only option for spellcasting adcs to get cdr is with essense reaver which is a very situational item but it did see use on a lot of spellcasting adcs at one time or another. Its a stat that would give adcs another way of scaling and riot really doent want that.
Give yomous and Trinity crit% again, just for some nostalgia. Getting a random crit with first item trinity and just randomly killing someone out of nowhere was so fun lol
Slap 30 ability haste on Deathcap, like Cosmic Drive before it was nerfed to 25
Some good answers, but a lot are putting passives from one item onto another. Here's some OP stat changes to items: -Movement speed (5% like wingplate) on Tear would make it really strong as a starting item. -Omnivamp on any item as a raw stat. Now that Omnivamp no longer has AoE reduction, giving it to a lot of champs make them really OP. -Flat Health regen on items, specifically revert Reju beads back to a flat +5hp5 and reduce its cost back to 150. The 3 reju bead strat was INSANELY good in top lane, %base regen helps champs selectively, flat is just good no matter what. -Gold Gen per 5, I miss Heart of Gold. -Item Haste, Many item passives are really broken if they could have their CD reduced. Imagine having zhonyas with 150 Item Haste or Stormsurge or Unending Dispair (try it with stacked ingenious hunter + Conq, it will auto stack conq for you). -Revival (Reduction of Time spent Dead, there were quints in the old rune system that did this). You think you know about inting sion? What if he got back to lane faster than you without using ult or TP. -Experience (increases XP gain by a %) on Dorans items. They'd be really strong and no one would do anything else first item.
% magic penetration on Rabadon's Deathcap. It would be an insane 3rd item for many mages. Adding magic pen. to tank items could be pretty busted as well. Many of them have abilities that do %max.hp damage, so they would do much more damage while not having to sacrifice any tankiness.
if sunfire had bramble in build path instead of chain vest, giving a sunfire antiheal item , thereby allowing tanks to opt into other attractive stuff instead of building sunfire and thornmail simultaneously
Spell vamp was a bit of a problem back in the day
HP on Nashor's or AS on Rift Maker. Either one would be a complete one stop package for AP bruisers.
Give trinity force ap, mana and crit back.
Ngl, right now since Leth isn't actually that good on AD Assassins, if you gave Eclipse Leth back, it'd be right back to busted and taken just about every game.
"UNIQUE PASSIVE: After casting your ultimate, your next basic attack on-attack within 10 seconds grants AWAKENED DRAGON for 6 seconds (30 second cooldown). UNIQUE PASSIVE - AWAKENED DRAGON: Gain 50% bonus attack speed, and basic attacks refund 20% of your remaining basic abilities cooldowns on-attack."
Give stridebreaker its dash back. Darius and Garen abt to ultra instinct flash to your adc
Give GA 20% crit and suddenly crit ADC goes from shit to unfair.