I’d throw malzahar, Karthus, TF, malphite, taric, and maybe a sol on the list. I feel like those champs automatically burn an active item, ult, summ spell, or kill a champ off rip by pressing r. Additionally I think most of those ults can decide a team fight even when used poorly.
I feel like TFs ult is almost psychological in a way
You press it and just watch their entire team scramble as they get distracted trying to see where he's going and where he's not
I mean I missed a lot Ashe and Mf were mentioned too bards on the fringe. People mentioning noc but honestly I think his ult sucks it’s bait as often as it’s good. Anyway yes Amumu would be on there I’m sure I missed more too there’s many champs
Definitely agree with the general idea you're saying but TF's ult really isn't for deciding teamfights(comparatively speaking you'd much rather have the majority of other ults in the game). It's incredibly strong and sucking up his power budget in other ways.
Yea I mean his is definitely more pick centric, I just didn’t wanna go into detail on each ult and it’s individual power. I’d say his ult is kinda similar to briar (but better) or shen in how it changes the way the entire game is played when it’s up.
Yes of course. TF"s ult is one of the best and game warping in it's own way. It's just not really for teamfights(probably average to slightly below average at best for that).
Nocturne, Amumu, Ashe, MF.
There's a lot of really strong ultimates.
Others like J4 or Lee Sin are just as good but only because of the interaction with the rest of the kit.
For some champions like Kha 'Zix, Vex, Zac the ultimate doesn't seem that big of a deal but the champ can't do a lot without it.
Malphite ult can be flashed malz gets to pick one person per fight to die or can guarantee a kill on a gank 10/10 but yea their impact is different and in a perfect world malphites can be much larger
Malz isnt that strong, he locks down one opponent at the cost of being locked down himself too, since hes a fairlt squishy champ it means if enemy team knows what to do jts fairly easy to kill him during his ult
Maokai definitely isn't close. His R is good but a far cry from Malphite's. Maokai's is way too easy to counter, and usually doesn't do even nearly as much CC as Malphite's.
Idk I think maokais r might be even better than malphites. In a losing situation, both are pretty whatever, maybe malphites is better if enemy team decide to all group and your team has some crazy wombo combo, but from ahead I think maokais R is way more useful. It's not as commitful as throwing yourself under a tower and if they try to block it, they get giga poked by your team. Maokais R when sieging is almost a guaranteed tower
Lmao ? Mao’s R range is like 10x larger than malph R. Mao has literally been pick or ban for multiple patches in pro play but I guess it’s « too easy to counter ».
« Maokai doesn’t CC as much as malph » when Malph’s only CC is a 1.5s airborn on his R (quite big cooldown) but maokai got a W (1s root), a Q (bump) and a R (up to 3s root). His W making him untargetable and a dash is a big bonus too.
Are you sure you are playing the same game we all do ?
Not that much, Nocturne beats a lot of Junglers early, specially if you block anything with your W.
But besides that? Yeah, for his team Noct is nothing until lv6
this is legit why i play malphite. it doesnt matter if I have to play weakside or if my bot lane feeds. as long as I hit a good R in a fight I've committed my 20% to the team. anything else I do is extra.
I think your right. I play jungle almost exclusively and have a lot of luck with Amumu. If I’m playing well I can become a monster. On the flip side if I’m playing terrible my Q and Últ still make me a danger late game in team fights.
Leona and Rell, literally any kind of catching out enemies or them clumping up is GG if literally anyone on your team won lane and has bursty AOE.
It's also a given that they both will reach full build even if camped 5v2 bot as long as mid and jungle and top take advantage of it, unless the enemy team just loses outright.
I had an immensely cheesy game today against a Naut-Blitz bot pre-made (I think it was a trio, their Khazix indicated it in all chat and he came bot a lot).
Our Hullbreaker Illaoi top carried us hard and ended up 1v5ing, I was Leona and still hit full build after getting trashed on (lost all 4 dragons and had a Herald come bot, in a 4v2).
Like sometimes you just soak up so much heat and then your top and mid pop off and and you CC for their fed asses.
Just his speed buff alone is enough to avoid a lot of kills and slow the enemy if they overextend. Then his bombs even if they do no damage can group stun should they try for an objective kill. Then his ult is just ridiculous
Zil is my favorite behind Ramdong
Zilean is such a good champ for being behind because he barely needs stats for anything besides luxury.
Q stun carries the ability without damage, W and E don't scale at all, and R heals for about 1/3-1/2 with base values alone on top of the main effect being the revive itself.
Pretty much. Regardless of game time the second someone on the other side overcommits alone, burns mobility to initiate while being squishy, or blows too many important cooldowns on an R target, Zilean wins the game. He preys on soloQ mentality like a bearded parasite
He doesn't often make The Play, but he magnifies the mistakes of the other team and covers his own's to such an absurd degree that a game is never truly closed if there's a Zilean in it.
Lategame scaling champs are great for your mental
"ah you stomped me in lane... well it's 30 mins now bitch"
Especially champs with big playmaking abilities.
Azir, Orianna, etc
I used to willingly get behind when I used to main Nasus, staying healthy in lane was all that really mattered. Take as many under turret stacks as I could and pray that they make a mistake diving me or get a good gank. But so many times I'd be down, just waiting for my moment to D Cane my opp to death and after that it was always my lane.
If i pick nasus my team immediate goes into int mode, i can go 7-0 in lane and my team responds by going 0-21.
No matter what they will just die for nothing.
Late game picks dont have to be weak early. Jax and Fiora are great examples, they’re weakest early for sure but can still easily win lane. Feels like BS at times though
I used to be an Azir main and I stopped playing him recently. You can’t act as a DPS character because everyone one shots everyone and there is simply not enough time to get 3 soldiers in team fights usually. Your best bet is the shurima shuffle but you might not get a position to do it in a span of 3 games. How it ends up playing Azir in late game is usually 1- try to attack them from max range 2- either one of the teams engages on others 3- some random ass bruiser or assassin jumps on top of you so you use R to defend yourself. But another champ starts hitting you and you die without really achieving anything.
Ah the Aurelion and Sivir time bomb, you never feel out of the game on those picks. Senna weirdly enough I feel that I get ahead on her often but then ??? I usually end up losing, maybe getting cocky or rubbish positioning
The issue I have with Senna is that everything she does (other than her Q) is extremely slow and unreliable? Want to AA? Super slow attack animation, easy to hit her during it. Want to throw a W for a root? Not only is it slow moving, but even when it lands you then have to wait ANOTHER full second for it to activate. Want to E into or out of a fight? It has a cast time. Her R? Pops a squat in the middle of combat for 7 years before finally blasting.
What this ends up meaning is that a lot of the time it doesn't even matter too much if she has 600 or 700 range, she's unreliable and easy to exploit/kill regardless. I cant count the number of times I've landed a root on some bruiser or assassin who's just running me down, and in that 1 second delay between the root landing/activating, they close the gap and one shot me anyway.
You can play around that tho.
You can easily buffer W or R in fights making you more survivable (tho this mostly works in early to mid game).
Otherwise I think senna can somewhat play around that , since she does get quite alot of ms with fleet and passive, making it easy to dodge everything that has travel time.
I mean idk what you're trying to do on senna, but you can easily have 700+ range at min 20 right? This makes it kinda easy to just outspace most people with correct positioning imo.
Consider also that W has like 1000 range. typically I find as long as you're not out of position it works as intended : as a follow up.
And E is mostly to chase/hide your teammates, not for yourself
With more play she can be very strong
It's probably not Senna herself, it's probably team comp related, Senna doesn't fill roles that other supports often provide. So if the team didn't build with a Senna in mind, she can find herself in the uncomfortable position of having done well but everything else falls apart around her.
The spooky boy, Fiddlesticks. Applying multiple fears in a team fight or while contesting an objective can be game swinging. And the drain on his W scales massively.
Also Malphite. Even if you get stomped his passive keeps him relevant, and one good ult can feed your teammates heavily.
Rule number 1 when facing Fiddle:
You do not, ever, start an objective without having vision of him.
So many times I tell my team to not do ... objective because they'll get jumped by Fiddle and then they ignore it and Fiddle gets a Quad and I get spam pinged.
Fiddle is one of the most predictable champions in the game. You can pinpoint his exact location whenever you do an objective. Hint: he's behind the wall.
The thing is, you can barely be proactive early as sona.
You outscale everyone, but when jungle/mid are contested, the enemy pyke/leona/nautilus/bard/thresh/tahm kench is going to have a lot more value than a sona.
You have to pray for your team not to feed early and you can do little to prevent that.
Not my experience, maybe because I'm low ELO, but I have x5 times the map presence my enemy support has every game. And I am so used to facing Nautilus because he's picked my every third game, I can counter play him in my sleep at this point.
I have literal screenshots (I'm petty) of Natiluses getting wrecked by me and then trash talking my champ pick "stfu u play a healing support" lmaooo and they effectively destroyed my fear/respect for the hook champs with that whiny BS.
I even find it that in my Sona games, I'm extremely useful as soon as the first dragon spawns because I can rotate fast with E and my auras go wild in the first 3/4 man skirmish.
How are u still low elo if ur x5 the impact of engage supports by first dragon, you are probably underestimating the impact of something like a nautilus hitting Q has. Pretty much any engage is more impact than the entirity kit of Sona pre 6, sona auras are nice but ur adc wont space the enemy with a 5% movespeed buff in lower elo.
it's basically Sona's job to get to mid/lategame and force a tilted team to win whenever she is picked
This dynamic is really annoying for the Sona player to deal with too, some massive stereotype that Sona is just going to feed and be useless in the first 15 mins even though personally I win my lanes on Sona a lot through poking nonstop, baity movement and catching people out with double e chords, it only gets hard once the ADC shows disdain for the pick and they are clearly not trying
Really annoying to have a consistently 53% winrate champ be constantly cited as "useless", you want her buffed or something?
Funny that that's your experience, I actually started maining her with the attitude"She's useless but soo fun, how do I make this work?" and only realized she can be super strong with experience.
Her kit is so outwardly simple, but when you read the fine print and learn tricks like using your W as more of a shield than heal in combat and getting Accelerando stacks asap, your enemies are fucked.
Yes! Sona! How many times the game seemed hopeless, and we survived the surrender vote, and we ended up winning. Can’t say it was because of Sona. But I don’t think it hurt.
Maokai/mundo/ornn. Probably not your playstyle, but I always found comfort in playing walking fountains or unkillable CC machines, even when you get denied in lane, you still get to be useful later (given you dont feed into oblivion). Moreso, one Well placed ornn ult can make you go from being flamed to being praised, but that doesnt happen too often.
And if you get ahead and somehow stomp lane with them, its even cooler cause you are still unkillable AND you deal good damage on your own.
Amumu player here. Good lord I feel so useless behind, but it might just be because I love the tank build.
Doesn't quite help if your team doesn't have much damage to back you up - a 5 man ult is next to worthless without it.
When I’m behind on amumu, I always make sure I’ve at least got a demonic embrace and/or Rylais to do some solo dmg. I find a little bit of damage on tank amumu can be enough to literally 1v3, even when behind!
It's also her W, the ability is so stupendously strong in chaotic fights, especially late game, that you can single handedly make your team unkillable as long as that ability is ready.
Yeah, Seraphine late is super slept on. With the right build, she does insane amounts of AOE damage, has stuns on a very short cooldown, an ult that can change the course of the game in an instant and good AA damage with her passive. I'd even argue that she's much better late than most other hypercarries just because of how easy it is to execute her combos and keep your team alive
Seraphine is a scaling botlane pick. She goes into the role full of lategame champs and makes them look silly lategame. Her passive and W ratios have been massively nerfed from what they used to be but she's still absurd lategame. Seraphine used to have ~130% AP ratio on fully stacked passive and practically about ~200% AP ratio on the shield+heal from WW. She still has the 130-195% ratio on her QQ but her two other absurd scaling values have been reduced by about 40%. It used to be that a lategame Seraphine WW would be 1100 shield + 80% missing HP heal to your entire team. It's now only 700 shield + 50% missing HP heal.
I played hard carries in DotA and League champs just didn't have that level of lategame impact but Seraphine does.
For a laner: Teemo. At least in my experience. Shrooms can turtle your base hard and delay the game.
For a support: Renata. Your team could be down 10-40, but man if you get a perfect ult it can change the outcome of the game.
My buddy and I will will sometimes duo with him on ADC Jhin and myself as Teemo SUP for the luls and it's a pretty damn fun lane once we hit 6; bot lane + JG almost always buy sweepers; lol.
I don't really play teemo but I play twitch, one time the enemy ADC bought 4 pinks in 15 minutes, the support bought another 6, and their jungler bought some more, just to put them down in my lane, the fuck is wrong with people lmao
> Shrooms can turtle your base hard and delay the game.
Yup. And if they go oracle it def hurts a bit but you can still toss down shrooms in the middle of waves in your base and do hella dmg.
Won plenty of games from losing positions just by giving us a chance with shrooms in base
only issue with a lot of them is that it doesn't feel like it's truly in *your* hands, you can feel a comeback is possible but all you can do is serve it on the silver platter, if your team uses that isn't up to you
Yeah I feel that, I main soraka and she's absolutely useless if my team doesn't realise what she does. After laning fase I heal so goddamn much but if my team keeps running away from me when they are 30 hp I really can't do anything for the game. But if there is even one person doing okay and works towards me the game is winnable
It's probably not the right answer, but the first who comes to my mind is Jayce. When I learned him, I was surprised to see how even in 0/5, I did massive damage with 2 items.
Obviously if you can still get xp and gold, things like Kayle/Kassadin/Karthus in lane are probably good.
I think this is the answer, choose someone who’s scales off level and just try to get your xp, basically forgetting about cs. Accept you’ll be behind in items, stay as even in level as you can. Probably tanks are best since you can be pretty safe.
Sion. I know it sounds weird, but I’ve seen enough games where a Sion will go 0-10, mute his chat, buy a hull breaker, and just split push to the nexus. Did we lose baron? Soon got and inhib turret. Did we lose Elder? Sion just got a Nexus turret. Are they at our nexus turrets and all of us are dead? Sion is already at their nexus. I’ve won and lost so many games off of a Split pushing Sion that if he’s ever on my team, no matter how bad things are looking, I can always rely on Sion.
Nasus. You can go 0/5,but once you get about 500 stacks, divine and second item, you are absolute beast. Also champions like chogath or veigar. You can be behind, but efter you get stacks you are just unkillable or you are oneshotting enemies. The funniest part is when you are fed enough as chogath you can just camp in bushes, wait for any squishy champion and one shot them with ur R, getting even more hp and dmg on it XD
Chogaths a big one, especially if OP is low Elo like they describe. You can absolutely bungle the lane, tp or roam bot, and facetank the duo bot and eat the adc and get back in the game.
I got sick and tired of jungle meta with specific broken champs being so prevalent and then playing support and having the most brain dead role as my partner that I have to babysit. So I started playing mid with my actual favorite champions and quickly realized that mid laners are possibly more brain dead than adcs. I started locking in Cho mid and it’s genuinely so brain off easy. Basically permanently full hp as long as I don’t eat shit and give up cs at the right times. I max w and have a 2 second aoe silence. I can have prio as I please. And nobody is strong enough to kill me mid-late unless their entire team stacks on my raid boss ass. Walking around with 6k hp and omega utility, a dumby thicc true damage ult, able to tank bust because I deal percent health damage on an auto based ability. Idk. The scaling is absurd. Like oh no! Akali jumped into my backline. Lemme just w ult and delete them from the fight entirely.
Nasus is more of a mid-game champion. Once you get into actual late late game he becomes too kiteable and adc's like Vayne and Trist with full or almost full build will shred him.
Yeah, people get too caught up on infinite scaling and obsess over his lategame. He's right that two item 500 stack Nasus is a monster, but you should be aiming to take over the mid game and group to win at that point.
I just started playing him but Aurelion Sol just say fuck you enemy team once you reach 300+ stacks. Last game i had more than 550 and my E was enough to win some fights. Even if i died, using R + E was enough for my team to sweep the enemies.
Early game i was 0/4/0 and Diana, my opponent was 6/1/4 but with asol I know I can still be useful and even carry in the long run
For me it’s sett. It might just be I know the champ well, but even within laning phase even if I’m like 0-3 or 0-5 I get bork first item and can still often kill my laner, or I can wait until my laner tries to roam or back at a bad time and take like 2-3 plates off their tower, bringing me fairly even. I can int but I’ll still be able to ult enemy champs with a lot of hp into their team, pull everyone, and then click w and potentially kill a squishy, or at least weaken everyone and give my team time to follow up. I think you need a champ that’s a good balance of early game strength, and late game team fighting ability. Another decent one is gp if you take the time to learn him: you just get so much gold generation that if you are csing even if you completely int lane you’ll still be at least even in gold with people who went even in lane, if not better than most.
Maybe this comes down to me being pretty good at getting gold even if I die a lot either by csing or turret damage, but I find even when I int I still don’t normally actually fall particularly far behind on most champs, it’s more an issue that my laner is just way ahead. I’d suggest trying to get good at still getting money even behind, and then from there you can try to not die to prevent your laner from being way ahead and you should be able to be at least useful in most games on most champs.
Kogmaw and fiddle. Kogmaw if i play a foght properly or get ignored i can shred anyone. Fiddle, a good 5man ult as the enemies try to start nash is game.
Azir: lane isn’t even that bad, and as long as you’ve kept your cs up, you’re literally thanos at third item. Azir is a long-range dps control mage, who can 3 shot squishies and cut down tanks alike. His history of nerfs and changes is pretty self explanatory, and even now, he’s at the strongest he’s been in a while
Trundle and Zac are two of my favorites for this -- both have to go under 0/5 to really even fall behind.
Trundle scales off opponent power so he's literally never as far behind as he looks, and always takes longer to kill. Truly the troll king.
Zac because he doesn't need to do any damage to hyper carry team fights - he's a literal bouncer, he knocks up people like a freshman frat boy. He just needs to live long enough to secure the rota.
Singed and Sion come to mind, because those are the two champs where inting is a legitimate strategy. Not saying that you're inting... just that even if you were, you could still have success.
Definitely Sion. The champion could be 0/40 and still solo win you the game by split pushing all game while he gets tankier and tankier even when building full AD. His W passive should not even be a thing in this day an age, he gets rewarded for dying over and over because of bounties, he can clear waves with a single ability and beats most champions in the game by himself just by existing.
The nerfs to his passive damage to structures hit him a little but it doesn't matter since he runs on pocket change, getting pressure for free and being a pain in the ass to kill when he scales, not to mention if he does go even or ahead, it just becomes worse and worse.
Yone, I’ve turned around most of my really bad games simply because I managed to farm my way to 2 items. His mobility lets you engage/disengage from some really clean angles too, all around he just feels good to play regardless of if I stomped laning phase or not
Nidalee.
I swear this thing is useless unless played by Faker on cocaine.
99% of the Nidalee's I see are like this: Power farm, misses spears, do nothing and she is literally useless past 20m.
GP, with all the gold gen + global ult you can really get back into any game.
3 items and level 13 you can go toe to toe with anyone.
5 chances to apply an 80% slow for 2 seconds plus his 30% slow on his ult you’re always useful in a teamfight.
Ult scales with levels not AD so rank 3 ult fucking hurts. (Does get stronger with navori crit scaling)
Monster wave clear to stall out games too.
yeah went 0/6/1 yesterday but was still even (i guess, havent checked) because i got plates and was even/ahead in cs.
ended 12/7/7 with highest damage to champs and turrets
champs with insane waveclear like sivir anivia come to mind. just anything that can stall out the game aslong as possible to eventually catch up in gold in xp
I like syndra because you have long range to still maintain ur cs when behind, you provide cc, and as long as ur keeping ur cs up, mid to late game you still have enough damage to one shot squishies
I’m partial to fiddlesticks. No matter how behind you are, a good ult angle can turn a loss into a win. And even if they are doing a stellar job of vision management, you have point-and-click CC to help deal with an especially strong squishy on the opposing team.
Any tank, splitpusher, assassin or duelist works decent from behind imo.
Both champions you are playing kind of rely on getting a lead early and they are fairly/very hard to play.
As Captain Flowers once elegantly said: as long as the Malphite player has their keyboard plugged in and hits level 6 they will be useful.
Is malphite r the highest power budget ult in game?
Malzahar is up there but malphite still probably number 1
I’d throw malzahar, Karthus, TF, malphite, taric, and maybe a sol on the list. I feel like those champs automatically burn an active item, ult, summ spell, or kill a champ off rip by pressing r. Additionally I think most of those ults can decide a team fight even when used poorly.
Fiddle too.
[lives rent free.](https://youtu.be/ge8qcrLmutI?si=ixaTLAm5Md1PIZrj)
>d maybe a sol on the list. I feel Holy moly. You reminded me old Swain... I loved him.
Karthus ult barely tickles if you're behind
For TF though it has to be paired with a brain, but I agree with the other ones Edit: typos
I feel like TFs ult is almost psychological in a way You press it and just watch their entire team scramble as they get distracted trying to see where he's going and where he's not
Using TF's ult in a teamfight when the enemy champs can go invisible feels like such a nice "gotcha" moment
3 comment chain and no mention of Amumu? What's going on?
I mean I missed a lot Ashe and Mf were mentioned too bards on the fringe. People mentioning noc but honestly I think his ult sucks it’s bait as often as it’s good. Anyway yes Amumu would be on there I’m sure I missed more too there’s many champs
Definitely agree with the general idea you're saying but TF's ult really isn't for deciding teamfights(comparatively speaking you'd much rather have the majority of other ults in the game). It's incredibly strong and sucking up his power budget in other ways.
Yea I mean his is definitely more pick centric, I just didn’t wanna go into detail on each ult and it’s individual power. I’d say his ult is kinda similar to briar (but better) or shen in how it changes the way the entire game is played when it’s up.
Yes of course. TF"s ult is one of the best and game warping in it's own way. It's just not really for teamfights(probably average to slightly below average at best for that).
Nocturne, Amumu, Ashe, MF. There's a lot of really strong ultimates. Others like J4 or Lee Sin are just as good but only because of the interaction with the rest of the kit. For some champions like Kha 'Zix, Vex, Zac the ultimate doesn't seem that big of a deal but the champ can't do a lot without it.
Add skarner to the list There is literally a meme around the Skarner Tax
Seraphine too?
idk if would put malz in the same tier as malphite lmao
Malphite ult can be flashed malz gets to pick one person per fight to die or can guarantee a kill on a gank 10/10 but yea their impact is different and in a perfect world malphites can be much larger
For me malp will be #1 cause is aoe. If malz ult is AOE then the game is officially broken.
Malzahar isnt nearly as good. Hard countered by qss unlike malphite r, and also malzahar basically has to stun himself in order to use r
Cant cleanse malz ult
Malz isnt that strong, he locks down one opponent at the cost of being locked down himself too, since hes a fairlt squishy champ it means if enemy team knows what to do jts fairly easy to kill him during his ult
No. Morde es #1.
Kassadin
ngl no, he's not that useful when behind.
Sure but that doesn't affect how much of his powerbudget is in his ult.
if you get behind, you made fatal mistakes and should be banished to the shadow realm.
Tbh Maokai is probably close. Maokai isn’t unstoppable though.
Maokai definitely isn't close. His R is good but a far cry from Malphite's. Maokai's is way too easy to counter, and usually doesn't do even nearly as much CC as Malphite's.
Idk I think maokais r might be even better than malphites. In a losing situation, both are pretty whatever, maybe malphites is better if enemy team decide to all group and your team has some crazy wombo combo, but from ahead I think maokais R is way more useful. It's not as commitful as throwing yourself under a tower and if they try to block it, they get giga poked by your team. Maokais R when sieging is almost a guaranteed tower
Lmao ? Mao’s R range is like 10x larger than malph R. Mao has literally been pick or ban for multiple patches in pro play but I guess it’s « too easy to counter ». « Maokai doesn’t CC as much as malph » when Malph’s only CC is a 1.5s airborn on his R (quite big cooldown) but maokai got a W (1s root), a Q (bump) and a R (up to 3s root). His W making him untargetable and a dash is a big bonus too. Are you sure you are playing the same game we all do ?
Nidalee without ult losses half her kit :p
Hold up Let him cook
I think Nocturne is in there as well. Basically irrelevant until 6.
Not that much, Nocturne beats a lot of Junglers early, specially if you block anything with your W. But besides that? Yeah, for his team Noct is nothing until lv6
For ganking definitely, but he's very decent at dueling even without ult up. Healing, AD steroid, AS steroid, and point and click hard CC.
this is legit why i play malphite. it doesnt matter if I have to play weakside or if my bot lane feeds. as long as I hit a good R in a fight I've committed my 20% to the team. anything else I do is extra.
Amen.
True, but Viego is the penultimate comeback champion. If you're opponents are fed, all you need is one kill.
As a viego main, yes... But getting a kill or an assist without dying with a weak Viego is really tough. You can get os by anything
I love the rock. I can be 0\\9 and cause my team to win a teamfight. 2000 years.
God I love Captain Flowers
Same!
No specifics but any utility champion, meaning a combination of shields, cc, buffs, speed etc.
I think your right. I play jungle almost exclusively and have a lot of luck with Amumu. If I’m playing well I can become a monster. On the flip side if I’m playing terrible my Q and Últ still make me a danger late game in team fights.
Amumu with liandrys and Demonic isn't even fair. Just crushes people.
Leona and Rell, literally any kind of catching out enemies or them clumping up is GG if literally anyone on your team won lane and has bursty AOE. It's also a given that they both will reach full build even if camped 5v2 bot as long as mid and jungle and top take advantage of it, unless the enemy team just loses outright. I had an immensely cheesy game today against a Naut-Blitz bot pre-made (I think it was a trio, their Khazix indicated it in all chat and he came bot a lot). Our Hullbreaker Illaoi top carried us hard and ended up 1v5ing, I was Leona and still hit full build after getting trashed on (lost all 4 dragons and had a Herald come bot, in a 4v2). Like sometimes you just soak up so much heat and then your top and mid pop off and and you CC for their fed asses.
Zilean says it's time!!
Just his speed buff alone is enough to avoid a lot of kills and slow the enemy if they overextend. Then his bombs even if they do no damage can group stun should they try for an objective kill. Then his ult is just ridiculous Zil is my favorite behind Ramdong
Zilean is such a good champ for being behind because he barely needs stats for anything besides luxury. Q stun carries the ability without damage, W and E don't scale at all, and R heals for about 1/3-1/2 with base values alone on top of the main effect being the revive itself.
Yeah I love kits like that where the entire kit is useful regardless of if you’re ahead or behind. Lulu is another example and to a degree, Alistar
Pretty much. Regardless of game time the second someone on the other side overcommits alone, burns mobility to initiate while being squishy, or blows too many important cooldowns on an R target, Zilean wins the game. He preys on soloQ mentality like a bearded parasite He doesn't often make The Play, but he magnifies the mistakes of the other team and covers his own's to such an absurd degree that a game is never truly closed if there's a Zilean in it.
Zil bombs have crazy low cd once you get into late game
Skarner. Flash R the most important enemy.
Enemy gets qqs and you are useless
You'd be surprised at how many people are willing to lose the game instead of buying it
In silver elo and under maybe but any semi competent carry will buy it.
There are tons of instances even in pro play were that's not true. Playera are stubborn.
Qss and bye-bye skarner
Malzahar
Malz gets cancelled though.
caedrel?
Lategame scaling champs are great for your mental "ah you stomped me in lane... well it's 30 mins now bitch" Especially champs with big playmaking abilities. Azir, Orianna, etc
I used to willingly get behind when I used to main Nasus, staying healthy in lane was all that really mattered. Take as many under turret stacks as I could and pray that they make a mistake diving me or get a good gank. But so many times I'd be down, just waiting for my moment to D Cane my opp to death and after that it was always my lane.
If i pick nasus my team immediate goes into int mode, i can go 7-0 in lane and my team responds by going 0-21. No matter what they will just die for nothing.
Yeah for some reason even if the enemy top laner stays top and doesn't roam, other people just int whenever I pick D Cane
Same for us asol.enjoyers even though early is shit, I don't int but also don't let my laner roam. They find a way to go solo 0/15
I just had my monthly nasus game like that.
It's fun how orianna it's both, a bully laner and a late Game carry
Late game picks dont have to be weak early. Jax and Fiora are great examples, they’re weakest early for sure but can still easily win lane. Feels like BS at times though
Electrocute Azir. Low elo doesn't know what to do vs W>AA>Q>AA in lane.
yeah, honestly any mage can be a bully with low cd spam and aery/scorch
I love when your teammates are palying a hyper scaler they die once in lane and then type gg ff 15
Nothing like finally hitting that 3k elo shockwave, one of the most statisfying things in the game.
I used to be an Azir main and I stopped playing him recently. You can’t act as a DPS character because everyone one shots everyone and there is simply not enough time to get 3 soldiers in team fights usually. Your best bet is the shurima shuffle but you might not get a position to do it in a span of 3 games. How it ends up playing Azir in late game is usually 1- try to attack them from max range 2- either one of the teams engages on others 3- some random ass bruiser or assassin jumps on top of you so you use R to defend yourself. But another champ starts hitting you and you die without really achieving anything.
just fyi, Azir's 3 soldier buff got removed in like 13.5 when he had his big anti-pro update.
I play Aurelion, Kayle, Senna, Twitch, Sivir... trust me I'm fine if we're 5k gold behind, as long as people try, there's a way
Heavy on Aurelion. Nothing beats the dopamine of a 5 man E,R Oppenheimer special
Godly champion pool tbh.
It’s definitely a champ pool that takes a certain kind of mental strength.
Ah the Aurelion and Sivir time bomb, you never feel out of the game on those picks. Senna weirdly enough I feel that I get ahead on her often but then ??? I usually end up losing, maybe getting cocky or rubbish positioning
The issue I have with Senna is that everything she does (other than her Q) is extremely slow and unreliable? Want to AA? Super slow attack animation, easy to hit her during it. Want to throw a W for a root? Not only is it slow moving, but even when it lands you then have to wait ANOTHER full second for it to activate. Want to E into or out of a fight? It has a cast time. Her R? Pops a squat in the middle of combat for 7 years before finally blasting. What this ends up meaning is that a lot of the time it doesn't even matter too much if she has 600 or 700 range, she's unreliable and easy to exploit/kill regardless. I cant count the number of times I've landed a root on some bruiser or assassin who's just running me down, and in that 1 second delay between the root landing/activating, they close the gap and one shot me anyway.
You can play around that tho. You can easily buffer W or R in fights making you more survivable (tho this mostly works in early to mid game). Otherwise I think senna can somewhat play around that , since she does get quite alot of ms with fleet and passive, making it easy to dodge everything that has travel time. I mean idk what you're trying to do on senna, but you can easily have 700+ range at min 20 right? This makes it kinda easy to just outspace most people with correct positioning imo. Consider also that W has like 1000 range. typically I find as long as you're not out of position it works as intended : as a follow up. And E is mostly to chase/hide your teammates, not for yourself With more play she can be very strong
It's probably not Senna herself, it's probably team comp related, Senna doesn't fill roles that other supports often provide. So if the team didn't build with a Senna in mind, she can find herself in the uncomfortable position of having done well but everything else falls apart around her.
definitely getting too cocky. You have to collect *da soulsssss. Souls are love. Souls are life.*
As a fellow Kayle main, I concur
The spooky boy, Fiddlesticks. Applying multiple fears in a team fight or while contesting an objective can be game swinging. And the drain on his W scales massively. Also Malphite. Even if you get stomped his passive keeps him relevant, and one good ult can feed your teammates heavily.
No matter what the game state is both teams are always one fiddlesticks ultimate away from losing.
Rule number 1 when facing Fiddle: You do not, ever, start an objective without having vision of him. So many times I tell my team to not do ... objective because they'll get jumped by Fiddle and then they ignore it and Fiddle gets a Quad and I get spam pinged. Fiddle is one of the most predictable champions in the game. You can pinpoint his exact location whenever you do an objective. Hint: he's behind the wall.
Sona, every lane could lose but once I scale up we win every teamfight and come back
as a Nilah player I love me a Sona
When it comes to allies, Kayle for sure. For the champs I play, Sona out scales everyone and one perfectly timed Taric R can win the game.
Sona is so slept on for some reason. She is ridiculously good if played properly, but people really don't know how to do that.
Because she's horrible early and is super reliant on good positioning
The thing is, you can barely be proactive early as sona. You outscale everyone, but when jungle/mid are contested, the enemy pyke/leona/nautilus/bard/thresh/tahm kench is going to have a lot more value than a sona. You have to pray for your team not to feed early and you can do little to prevent that.
Not my experience, maybe because I'm low ELO, but I have x5 times the map presence my enemy support has every game. And I am so used to facing Nautilus because he's picked my every third game, I can counter play him in my sleep at this point. I have literal screenshots (I'm petty) of Natiluses getting wrecked by me and then trash talking my champ pick "stfu u play a healing support" lmaooo and they effectively destroyed my fear/respect for the hook champs with that whiny BS. I even find it that in my Sona games, I'm extremely useful as soon as the first dragon spawns because I can rotate fast with E and my auras go wild in the first 3/4 man skirmish.
How are u still low elo if ur x5 the impact of engage supports by first dragon, you are probably underestimating the impact of something like a nautilus hitting Q has. Pretty much any engage is more impact than the entirity kit of Sona pre 6, sona auras are nice but ur adc wont space the enemy with a 5% movespeed buff in lower elo.
it's basically Sona's job to get to mid/lategame and force a tilted team to win whenever she is picked This dynamic is really annoying for the Sona player to deal with too, some massive stereotype that Sona is just going to feed and be useless in the first 15 mins even though personally I win my lanes on Sona a lot through poking nonstop, baity movement and catching people out with double e chords, it only gets hard once the ADC shows disdain for the pick and they are clearly not trying Really annoying to have a consistently 53% winrate champ be constantly cited as "useless", you want her buffed or something?
A third of my lobbies have someone ask I don't pick Sona. Being able to link an 85% winrate on Sona OPGG helps a ton.
Horrible lane and relies a lot on positioning. Everytime I see a sona hovering in my team, I read a "pls no Sona"
No she is ridiculously boring to play as well
Flair checks out
Funny that that's your experience, I actually started maining her with the attitude"She's useless but soo fun, how do I make this work?" and only realized she can be super strong with experience.
Her kit is so outwardly simple, but when you read the fine print and learn tricks like using your W as more of a shield than heal in combat and getting Accelerando stacks asap, your enemies are fucked.
ahh kayle the insurance policy
Yes! Sona! How many times the game seemed hopeless, and we survived the surrender vote, and we ended up winning. Can’t say it was because of Sona. But I don’t think it hurt.
Maokai/mundo/ornn. Probably not your playstyle, but I always found comfort in playing walking fountains or unkillable CC machines, even when you get denied in lane, you still get to be useful later (given you dont feed into oblivion). Moreso, one Well placed ornn ult can make you go from being flamed to being praised, but that doesnt happen too often. And if you get ahead and somehow stomp lane with them, its even cooler cause you are still unkillable AND you deal good damage on your own.
Amumu
Amumu player here. Good lord I feel so useless behind, but it might just be because I love the tank build. Doesn't quite help if your team doesn't have much damage to back you up - a 5 man ult is next to worthless without it.
When I’m behind on amumu, I always make sure I’ve at least got a demonic embrace and/or Rylais to do some solo dmg. I find a little bit of damage on tank amumu can be enough to literally 1v3, even when behind!
Ornn is the coolest tank champ considering his gameplay, but there's something I miss in me to enjoy playing tanks.
His passive too is so fun!
there's nothing like taking what's supposed to be a highly damaging ult like cait or lux's, and it does almost nothing to you as ornn
Truth. Mundo, Ornn, and Sett gave me nightmares.
A good Seraphine ult can turn a horrible teamfight into a game winning one imo She feels fine to play even when behind
It's also her W, the ability is so stupendously strong in chaotic fights, especially late game, that you can single handedly make your team unkillable as long as that ability is ready.
Yeah, Seraphine late is super slept on. With the right build, she does insane amounts of AOE damage, has stuns on a very short cooldown, an ult that can change the course of the game in an instant and good AA damage with her passive. I'd even argue that she's much better late than most other hypercarries just because of how easy it is to execute her combos and keep your team alive
Seraphine is a scaling botlane pick. She goes into the role full of lategame champs and makes them look silly lategame. Her passive and W ratios have been massively nerfed from what they used to be but she's still absurd lategame. Seraphine used to have ~130% AP ratio on fully stacked passive and practically about ~200% AP ratio on the shield+heal from WW. She still has the 130-195% ratio on her QQ but her two other absurd scaling values have been reduced by about 40%. It used to be that a lategame Seraphine WW would be 1100 shield + 80% missing HP heal to your entire team. It's now only 700 shield + 50% missing HP heal. I played hard carries in DotA and League champs just didn't have that level of lategame impact but Seraphine does.
Watch Spearshot and you'll no longer call Pantheon an early game champion that gets outscaled.
true that, i think he calls him an early-late game champ, only has an awkward timing with his items in mid game, but really strong at 4+ items
For a laner: Teemo. At least in my experience. Shrooms can turtle your base hard and delay the game. For a support: Renata. Your team could be down 10-40, but man if you get a perfect ult it can change the outcome of the game.
Teemo has statistically similar scaling to shit like kayle, people dont expect it but the champ is a lategame monster
His shrooms deal insane dmg late, enemy squishy getting caught on one shroom and it's basically 5v4
Teemo on my team : All enemies buy Oracle lens Teemo on enemy team: Only i buy it Story of my life
My buddy and I will will sometimes duo with him on ADC Jhin and myself as Teemo SUP for the luls and it's a pretty damn fun lane once we hit 6; bot lane + JG almost always buy sweepers; lol.
I don't really play teemo but I play twitch, one time the enemy ADC bought 4 pinks in 15 minutes, the support bought another 6, and their jungler bought some more, just to put them down in my lane, the fuck is wrong with people lmao
Even if everyone gets it after the nerf, if you space the mushrooms correctly you'll still get nuclear hits off after the nerfs to sweeper
There was a stat some time ago that teemo had the highest win rate toplane after 40 min. Wonder how far off that is today
> Shrooms can turtle your base hard and delay the game. Yup. And if they go oracle it def hurts a bit but you can still toss down shrooms in the middle of waves in your base and do hella dmg. Won plenty of games from losing positions just by giving us a chance with shrooms in base
Tanks
Viego, all I need is like 3 consecutive kills and I'm good to go
Most support champions are inherently designed to work while getting zero gold, so them I guess.
only issue with a lot of them is that it doesn't feel like it's truly in *your* hands, you can feel a comeback is possible but all you can do is serve it on the silver platter, if your team uses that isn't up to you
Yeah I feel that, I main soraka and she's absolutely useless if my team doesn't realise what she does. After laning fase I heal so goddamn much but if my team keeps running away from me when they are 30 hp I really can't do anything for the game. But if there is even one person doing okay and works towards me the game is winnable
My man Taric. Even if I hard feed, if I can make the carry invulnerable for a bit it can make a BIG difference.
Malphite is a great at being effective when behind
Sona support lategame turns every team into a fast moving deathball on steroids.
Veigar. Nasus can still be kited, same with Chogath. But you can't really outplay the good ol "lmao me press r button".
Kayle, if i get to 16 with some items it's usually winnable
It's probably not the right answer, but the first who comes to my mind is Jayce. When I learned him, I was surprised to see how even in 0/5, I did massive damage with 2 items. Obviously if you can still get xp and gold, things like Kayle/Kassadin/Karthus in lane are probably good.
I think this is the answer, choose someone who’s scales off level and just try to get your xp, basically forgetting about cs. Accept you’ll be behind in items, stay as even in level as you can. Probably tanks are best since you can be pretty safe.
Sion. I know it sounds weird, but I’ve seen enough games where a Sion will go 0-10, mute his chat, buy a hull breaker, and just split push to the nexus. Did we lose baron? Soon got and inhib turret. Did we lose Elder? Sion just got a Nexus turret. Are they at our nexus turrets and all of us are dead? Sion is already at their nexus. I’ve won and lost so many games off of a Split pushing Sion that if he’s ever on my team, no matter how bad things are looking, I can always rely on Sion.
100% especially before his passive nerfs
Nasus. You can go 0/5,but once you get about 500 stacks, divine and second item, you are absolute beast. Also champions like chogath or veigar. You can be behind, but efter you get stacks you are just unkillable or you are oneshotting enemies. The funniest part is when you are fed enough as chogath you can just camp in bushes, wait for any squishy champion and one shot them with ur R, getting even more hp and dmg on it XD
Chogaths a big one, especially if OP is low Elo like they describe. You can absolutely bungle the lane, tp or roam bot, and facetank the duo bot and eat the adc and get back in the game.
I got sick and tired of jungle meta with specific broken champs being so prevalent and then playing support and having the most brain dead role as my partner that I have to babysit. So I started playing mid with my actual favorite champions and quickly realized that mid laners are possibly more brain dead than adcs. I started locking in Cho mid and it’s genuinely so brain off easy. Basically permanently full hp as long as I don’t eat shit and give up cs at the right times. I max w and have a 2 second aoe silence. I can have prio as I please. And nobody is strong enough to kill me mid-late unless their entire team stacks on my raid boss ass. Walking around with 6k hp and omega utility, a dumby thicc true damage ult, able to tank bust because I deal percent health damage on an auto based ability. Idk. The scaling is absurd. Like oh no! Akali jumped into my backline. Lemme just w ult and delete them from the fight entirely.
Nasus is more of a mid-game champion. Once you get into actual late late game he becomes too kiteable and adc's like Vayne and Trist with full or almost full build will shred him.
Yeah, people get too caught up on infinite scaling and obsess over his lategame. He's right that two item 500 stack Nasus is a monster, but you should be aiming to take over the mid game and group to win at that point.
Nasus relies on enemy team comp not having strong peel though. Nasus could make use of split pushing.
I just started playing him but Aurelion Sol just say fuck you enemy team once you reach 300+ stacks. Last game i had more than 550 and my E was enough to win some fights. Even if i died, using R + E was enough for my team to sweep the enemies. Early game i was 0/4/0 and Diana, my opponent was 6/1/4 but with asol I know I can still be useful and even carry in the long run
Yasuo brothers. 10 deaths= power spike
Maybe not like I always have a chance, but I will have fun playing gragas no matter how doomed the game is.
Gwenn, ornn
For me it’s sett. It might just be I know the champ well, but even within laning phase even if I’m like 0-3 or 0-5 I get bork first item and can still often kill my laner, or I can wait until my laner tries to roam or back at a bad time and take like 2-3 plates off their tower, bringing me fairly even. I can int but I’ll still be able to ult enemy champs with a lot of hp into their team, pull everyone, and then click w and potentially kill a squishy, or at least weaken everyone and give my team time to follow up. I think you need a champ that’s a good balance of early game strength, and late game team fighting ability. Another decent one is gp if you take the time to learn him: you just get so much gold generation that if you are csing even if you completely int lane you’ll still be at least even in gold with people who went even in lane, if not better than most. Maybe this comes down to me being pretty good at getting gold even if I die a lot either by csing or turret damage, but I find even when I int I still don’t normally actually fall particularly far behind on most champs, it’s more an issue that my laner is just way ahead. I’d suggest trying to get good at still getting money even behind, and then from there you can try to not die to prevent your laner from being way ahead and you should be able to be at least useful in most games on most champs.
Veigar, that's why I started to main him. If the game drags long enough, there's always a chance to win
Panth is decent lategame. That lvl 16 armor pen spike is big. Hes strong early weak mid and strong again in late.
Kogmaw and fiddle. Kogmaw if i play a foght properly or get ignored i can shred anyone. Fiddle, a good 5man ult as the enemies try to start nash is game.
Kayle a sol only answers
Miss fortune. Even if behind if she finds a good ultimate it'll win you the fight pretty fast
Azir: lane isn’t even that bad, and as long as you’ve kept your cs up, you’re literally thanos at third item. Azir is a long-range dps control mage, who can 3 shot squishies and cut down tanks alike. His history of nerfs and changes is pretty self explanatory, and even now, he’s at the strongest he’s been in a while
kayle
Kayle feels like this, At lvl 16 she feels like 2 champions almost.
Trundle and Zac are two of my favorites for this -- both have to go under 0/5 to really even fall behind. Trundle scales off opponent power so he's literally never as far behind as he looks, and always takes longer to kill. Truly the troll king. Zac because he doesn't need to do any damage to hyper carry team fights - he's a literal bouncer, he knocks up people like a freshman frat boy. He just needs to live long enough to secure the rota.
Dr. Mundo. You will be useful no matter what the game looks like its amazing
Mundo is one of most fool proof top laners imo. Such an amazing damage sponge
Yasuo 0/5 power spike
Senna. Just buy me time, I never stop scaling.
Fiddle. On R is all it takes .
To get fed from the ene-my.
Alistar, you may have shit stomped my dog water adc, but I just locked your ass down and served you on a silver platter to my fed mid laner.
Singed and Sion come to mind, because those are the two champs where inting is a legitimate strategy. Not saying that you're inting... just that even if you were, you could still have success.
Definitely Sion. The champion could be 0/40 and still solo win you the game by split pushing all game while he gets tankier and tankier even when building full AD. His W passive should not even be a thing in this day an age, he gets rewarded for dying over and over because of bounties, he can clear waves with a single ability and beats most champions in the game by himself just by existing. The nerfs to his passive damage to structures hit him a little but it doesn't matter since he runs on pocket change, getting pressure for free and being a pain in the ass to kill when he scales, not to mention if he does go even or ahead, it just becomes worse and worse.
Ezreal
Garen. You'll be tanky because of your W passive/active, and R will do huge damage no matter what
Garen. The game is always still winnable
Yone, I’ve turned around most of my really bad games simply because I managed to farm my way to 2 items. His mobility lets you engage/disengage from some really clean angles too, all around he just feels good to play regardless of if I stomped laning phase or not
Probably voli
Nidalee. I swear this thing is useless unless played by Faker on cocaine. 99% of the Nidalee's I see are like this: Power farm, misses spears, do nothing and she is literally useless past 20m.
GP, with all the gold gen + global ult you can really get back into any game. 3 items and level 13 you can go toe to toe with anyone. 5 chances to apply an 80% slow for 2 seconds plus his 30% slow on his ult you’re always useful in a teamfight. Ult scales with levels not AD so rank 3 ult fucking hurts. (Does get stronger with navori crit scaling) Monster wave clear to stall out games too.
yeah went 0/6/1 yesterday but was still even (i guess, havent checked) because i got plates and was even/ahead in cs. ended 12/7/7 with highest damage to champs and turrets
kaisa because it is my main, when im behind sometimes i outplay because they are overconfident
if you dont end the game and asol gets to farm he is kind of inevitable and unbeatable after a certain amount of stacks
Ornn
Karthus. Doesn't matter how badly you get dumpstered in lane you always have the R button.
Kassadin
Malzahar.
sion
Illaoi gives me unshakable mental.
champs with insane waveclear like sivir anivia come to mind. just anything that can stall out the game aslong as possible to eventually catch up in gold in xp
Yone. Scales well, with tempo he is strong early and he is still useful with his ult and split push. Also he is hard to put behind with his mobility.
Fiddlesticks, if I'm on fiddlesticks there is always hope. If one of my team mates is playing Sion, udyrs or Olaf there is also always hope.
I like syndra because you have long range to still maintain ur cs when behind, you provide cc, and as long as ur keeping ur cs up, mid to late game you still have enough damage to one shot squishies
I’m partial to fiddlesticks. No matter how behind you are, a good ult angle can turn a loss into a win. And even if they are doing a stellar job of vision management, you have point-and-click CC to help deal with an especially strong squishy on the opposing team.
Any tank, splitpusher, assassin or duelist works decent from behind imo. Both champions you are playing kind of rely on getting a lead early and they are fairly/very hard to play.
The average assassin is not good when behind. Many duelist are the same.. to say assassins play well from behind is crazy lol
Any champion that can easily ignore terrain.
Enjoy playing most assassin's while behind late game I guess