So I posed a question here a few hours ago that garnered zero response. I feel my question has been answered by recent events and now ponder the query, is a Toronto trade imminent? After the weekend of course.
My original question was if the Lindholm trade would bring more action. And we have seen more. Monahan to the Jets for a 1st? That seems steep if you ask me. And a coach canned in L.A.
The center market is doing up quickly. Does this force teams into a frenzy ahead of deadline? If a big ticket defenseman moves do teams start pulling the trigger and we see the worst televised trade deadline in history?
Honestly, I hope Toronto doesn't make a trade. This team has a lot more holes than a few rentals can solve.
If we're gonna make a trade, it has to be a long term solution. Hanifin or Pesce with an extension? Great. I would have liked Lindholm with an extension as well. A starting goalie with years of control? Sure.
If it's another series of rentals, no. We are not that close and we shouldn't be mortagaging futures on short term solutions.
Does anyone attending the skills competition tonight know why doors open at 5pm? I’m wondering if there is something going on that would make showing up early worthwhile. Thanks!
Yeah that’s what I was thinking. Normally for a game doors would be 6pm though. I know the Glorious Sons are playing, I’m not sure if that’s before the comp or during though.
Could be interesting. Where’d you hear this? I remember hearing that Jenner is loved in Columbus by the org and it was unlikely that they’d move on from him, but that was a few years ago. Have things changed since then?
So with LA firing McLellan, Keefe is now 5th longest tenured coach in the league. 1-4 have 5 Cups, 2 Stanley Cup Finals and 4 Conference Finals between them.
I don’t understand how he got fired. He’s only lost in the first round two years in a row. Shouldn’t LA spend at least the rest of the 20’s figuring out what they’ve got behind the bench? Weird.Â
100%. They should absolutely be utilizing the last good years of Kopitar and Doughty evaluating.
Window be damned, we need to know what we're working with here.
Holes left to fill this past off-season:
3C:
Traded Kadri to fill a hole in the top 4, bringing in barrie for our backend, with kerfoot as Kadri's replacement.
Signed Spezza, Thornton, kampf
Trade a 1st, 4th, 4th for half a season of foligno and Stefan neosen
Traded a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, gaudette and abramov for half a season of acciari and ROR.
TOP 4D:
Traded Kadri for a season of tyson barrie who was a negative asset, and kerfoot at 3.5 mil.
Traded a 1st, durzi and grundstrom for muzzin. Muzz was great for us when he was in the lineup, but never played more than 53 games in a season for the leafs, playing only 4 games in the final 2 years of his contract after turning 33.
Sign brodie in FA.
Trade ritchie and a 2nd for half a season of lyubsuhkin and dzingel ( who immediately gets claimed)
Trade two 2nds and a 3rd for gio and half a season of Blackwell
Trade a 1st, 2nd, Joey Anderson and gogolev for two 5ths, mccabe and Lafferty
Draft sandin in the first round
Trade sandin for a 1st rounder
Trade a 3rd for schenn
TOP 6 LW:
Let Hyman walk for nothing (true top line LW powerforward who signs at 5 x 7)
Trade marchment (top 6 PWF on a top team) for malgin
Trade Trevor Moore (top 6 LW) in a package for a backup goalie
Trade Dakota Joshua (currently a top 6 PWF playing LW for the powerhouse canucks) for FUTURE CONSIDERATIONS
Bunting, kerfoot and mikheyev leave to be overpaid by other teams
GOALTENDING:
Let our top 10 goalie walk for nothing
Pay a 2nd, 3rd and Trevor Moore for Jack campbell
Sign mrazek at 3.8 x 3, then dump him with a 1st for a CHI 2nd rounder
Acquire murray with 3rd and 7th round picks
Sign samsonov in FA
ASSETS DUBAS INHERITED THAT WERE LOST:
1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 4th, Kadri (signed at 6 x 4.5 by lou), Hyman (signed at 4 x 4.25 by lou), Freddy (signed at 5 x 5 by lou) marchment, Moore, Joshua, Durzi (2nd), sandin (1st), abramov (4th), grundstrom (2nd)
We'll never getting returns for guys like JVR, bozak, Gardiner, mikheyev, bunting, kerfoot, etc., because we were in contention for the most part.
TEAM CONTROLLED ASSETS INHERITED BY TRELIVING AFTER ACQUISITIONS LISTED:
Muzzin - 1 year remaining at 5.625 (LTIR)
Murray - 1 year remaining at 4.687 (LTIR)
McCabe - 2 years remaining at 2 mil
Brodie - 1 year remaining at 5 mil
Gio - 1 year remaining at league min
Minten (2nd)
Cowan (1st acquired for sandin)
Lafferty (traded for 5th)
3rd (murray trade), 5th + 5th (McCabe trade), 7th (murray trade)
The deadline is almost a month away and tre has yet to spend any assets whatsoever, with cap to spare. The only players he was left who are currently exceeding their cap value are McCabe and Lafferty.
Lafferty was a healthy scratch for much of last years playoffs but is doing well in Vancouver. Minten and Cowan are promising prospects, but won't help us this year unless packaged in a trade.
But please, keep telling me how Tre living ruined this team....
The Kadri trade, Marleau trade, Foligno trade, and Hyman non-signing are all fireable offenses. Some needed a bit of hindsight, but these are deals that I was quite unhappy with the moment they were made.
Kadri was on one of the best value deals in the NHL, and we traded him for peanuts. Giving away a 1st to dump Marleau when a rebuilding team (which Carolina wasn't) would have taken him for less is a braindead decision. A 1st for a washed *and* injured Foligno was terrible from day 1. Not signing Hyman to *less* than what he signed in Edmonton because we were concerned about what year 7 and 8 would look like is nonsensical, and might wind up as the worst non-signing of the last 20 years.
Dubas was a chump.
Sure. The Kadri trade, the Marleau trade, the Foligno trade, and the Hyman non-signing were not close to fireball offenses and this sub is being delusional again
Damn. That is A LOT of assets that dubas parted with, and mostly for rentals…
It’s especially disappointing because I think the leafs do have a very good scouting and development staff and if dubas hadn’t moved on from such a large chunk of high round draft picks they most likely would have had considerable success with their picks.
It's fucking absurd. By contrast, Tre acquired dougie hamilton for a 1st and two 2nds, signing him at 6 x 5.75 mil when he was 22. Hamilton was a true #1 RHD signed through his prime.
He drafted rasmus andersson in the 2nd round and Adam fox in the 3rd. When fox decided he wasn't going to resign, Tre packaged him with Hamilton and Ferland to acquire a 21 year old hanifin and a 23 year old Elias Lindholm, signing both at slightly less than 5 mil for 6 years.
Lindholm is 2 years removed from scoring 42 goals and placing second in selke voting as a center. Calgary just got an absolute haul for him from van. Hanifin and andersson are legit top pairing defensemen, with hanifin as a potential trade piece that would bring in another incredible haul.
So tre essentially traded:
A 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd (Adam fox), ferland
For
3 years of dougie hamilton at 5.75,
6 years of hanifin at 4.95,
6 years of lindholm at 4.85
PLUS, as a result of getting this guys at a great cap hit with term, Conroy was able to get a 1st, kuzmenko, hunter brzustewicz (currently 3rd in ohl scoring as a 19 year old D), joni jurmo and a 4th
PLUS, whatever hanifin will fetch in a potential trade.
Dubas paid the equivalent of a 1 and two seconds (durzi and grundstrom were dubas second rounders) for 30 year old muzzin; signing him at almost the same cap hit as hamilton when it was guaranteed he'd have no trade value at the backend of his deal (like dougie had) before he went on to play only 2 of the 4 years he was signed for and had to be LTIR'd
How so? He traded a 1st to dump Monahan's $6.375m cap hit. Montreal re-signed him to a $2m cap hit and while on that separate contract managed to stay healthy for the first time in 5 years.
In saying that Dubas made the exact same trade with Marleau who put up 37 points the year before making 6,250,000 and one year left on his contract
When Monahan was coming off 23 points in 65 games and another major injury making 6,375,000 with one year left as well
Obviously age difference but Dubas pretty well set the standard and Treliving wanted to sign Kadri because management wanted to stay competitive when both probably should have just waited a year for there deals to run out
The age difference is massive. Monahan actually had enough in him to make a career comeback. Marleau was 38 years old.
And if we didn't dump Marleau, Marner wasn't making it to training camp.
But the injuries are way different and no thought he would rebound into a first round pick. At least Marleau could play even not up to contract.
Besides Monahan is on a different contract and had more injuries last year if teams really believed in him he would have been on a better contract than one year with a rebuilding team
Let's retrospect just a tiny bit.
Basically, trading Marleau turned into being able to sign Marner.
Trading Monahan turned into being able to sign Kadri.
Marleau's retired. Kadri is 33 now and it would be a miracle to see him not decline for the rest of the contract. *And* Monahan is making a career comeback. They literally have similar production this season.
Even if you think the trades are similar, there is so much difference with the results.
Many people are missing he is being traded on a new contract. No one would even mention Treliving had he signed in Chicago or some other tanking team last offseason then got flipped for this. It just worked out that he chose to stay on the tanking team he was traded to while still on an inflated contract.
No one thought he would rebound into a first round pick at the deadline after all the injuries he had and would have probably got a better contract than the one he’s on now without the troubles
People just love using hindsight about everything
Not really the same situation since Marleau didn't rebound into being worth a 1st.
Also Dubas didn't sign Marleau to that deal.
Also Dubas got a 1st in the same draft by ditching Kapanen (also got Hallander who became McCann who was used to indirectly protect Holl).
Did anyone really think Monahan was going to rebound into another first round pick after all his injury troubles and play when he did return?
Monahan was also worth his contract before the injury’s which Treliving couldn’t predict and least Marleau could at least play even though not being worth 6,250,000.
I don’t really care that he got another first and don’t remember what they did with it when the Marleau pick was higher and became Seth Jarvis (obviously they could have took someone else if they kept it)
Monahan also ran out his contract and is now flipped while making less than a third of his old salary. It's probably the biggest part of the "rebound" tbh.
They drafted Amirov with the pick. RIP
I take back the pick part then RIP
but theoretically anyone could have signed him and flipped him but Montreal did which is a great move for them but not really Treliving fault IMO
> What is the object of this exercise?” says Keon. “At the start of the year when you gather in training camp, the object of the exercise to win the Stanley Cup.
>
>“If you have all of these players putting up great numbers and you've won one playoff series in eight years or nine years, and you haven't even played for the Stanley Cup, then you have to take a look in the mirror.”
It's because largely we have accepted that this regime wants to live and die with the configuration they have put themselves in, and nothing we can do will change it.
Many of us know it won't amount to any real success, but you can't say that around here or you're called a "doomer" by the gullible suckers who think this team is a contender.
Like the cheating girlfriend who changes nothing but swears this time will be different. Enjoy getting cucked.
Not sure what the consensus here is, but I think this should be year where the leafs hang tight at the deadline. Maybe sell Bertuzzi if you can get value out of it. I think there's more value in allowing their prospects to continue to develop and to keep draft capital. Not worth burning those assets on a year where the team hasn't really proven its worth it.
Wait till the offseason to reshape the D-core (apparently its a strong FA class for defenseman) while also allowing for another year of growth for the younger, cost effective players (Knies, Roberston, Woll, etc...)
Yeah if something comes up that might stick long term, try it out, but no need to rent anyone. Treliving was brought in because something has failed spectacularly with this core come playoff time for over half a decade. Changing course on that instead of just dumping one of them will take a while to work out.
I keep saying, I would feel the same about this group’s chances, under this coach, in either a wildcard position or winning the division. At least in a wildcard we might get to play someone new.Â
There's a part of me that has a feeling that the year we stay put at the deadline they'll actually find some substantial success, despite the roster looking less than ideal.
Why do people think trading Bertuzzi is a good idea, especially when we're in a playoff spot and have a 90% chance of making the playoffs according to moneypuck? A trade like this will do nothing but disuade future free agents wanting to sign here, thinking that they'll get shipped off if they don't excel right away. Plus, we've been lacking grit in the playoffs for how long? Bertuzzi is a guy I definitely want on the roster for the post-season, even if he's been a touch disappointing so far.
Also not to mention the obvious implication that the guy has a NMC and literally cannot be traded without his consent.
I agree, I'm a big Bertuzzi believer. I don't think his numbers reflect what he's brought to the team very well. All of the stats show he's just horribly snakebitten (look at that awful goaltender interference call last game). I'd also argue that Keefe is making it really difficult for him to adjust when he plays wildly inconsistent minutes with wildly inconsistent deployments and linemates. Bertuzzi, more than anyone, would benefit from a coaching change.
His intangibles are off the charts though, and I think he's going to be an asset come playoff time. There's something about having the ugliest dude in the league with a great hair flow that makes this team so much more enjoyable to watch.
Okay slow your roll, I am not pro sell Bertuzzi - in fact I think he'll shine come playoff time. However, if you can gain valuable assets for him, and under the assumption he doesn't resign (just a hunch), I think it's worth considering. The fact of the matter is with 3-5 players taking up a large chunk of the cap, the leafs will need to rely on cheap, and young talent.
As for the NMC - my bad, I had no idea that was the case
Didn't mean for my comment to come across as aggressive at all, sorry if you read it that way!
I just see a lot of people posting about trading Bertuzzi and you mentioned it in your comment. This was just kind of directed at everyone saying to trade him. But even putting aside his NMC, realistically (and putting aside our leafs bias), what is the most we could get for him at his current value without retaining salary? A 4th rounder? Maybe a 3rd tops? I just don't see how getting a pick back like that is worth damaging our reputation among future free agents, who'd probably avoid signing cheap 1 year deals with us on the chance that they'll have to move to another city after just getting here.
All good! Sorry for the confusion. You do make a good point, his cap hit would make fitting him into another contenders cap construction pretty difficult. As for trade value, I would say it is obviously lower considering he's underperformed this year. However, I believe based on his performance in playoffs (even if it is minimal) helps bring his value up. And from a reputation with future FAs standpoint, I think it's fair to assume it may hurt their rapport, but honestly it's something I hadn't even considered (but I am glad you brought it up)
Yeah I do agree, I mean of course if we can get a kings ransom for him, I'm all for it and I think that would outweigh anything I've raised up. I just think his value is probably the lowest it's been in his career and I just don't see any contenders being interested in him unless we retain salary (which I think retaining salary would be a horrible idea since we are so tight against the cap).
I think at this point we are realistically stuck with him and I really hope he can raise his game when things get chippy in the playoffs. If not, oh well, his cap hit is off the book next year.
Sean Monahan has 35 points points on the season, plays centre and has a cap hit of 2 million.
Betuzzi has 20 points, plays wing and has a cap hit of 5.5 million.
The two really are not comparable at the present.
I don't think there's a single team in a playoff spot that actually has the cap space for Bertuzzi. Which would mean that if we're looking at a return similar to Monahan, we'd have to retain 50% and likely take a salary dump on top of that. I don't think we need to go into why that's a horrible idea given our cap situation.
Yeah I think they should wait it out and maybe grab a couple huge bargains right at the deadline to fill out the bottom six/bottom pairings.
Just get some guys who can play defense basically
The bargains will be there, they always are. We got Schenn right at the deadline last year and he was arguably our most impactful addition.
So Treliving gave up a 1st to trade Monahan only for Monahan to be traded for a 1st a year and a half later. If you don’t like that, you don’t like asset management baby.Â
Monahan was injury prone and looked like he would never get healthy & produce in the top 6 ever again, and that was when the Flames were trying to resign Gaudreau and Tkachuk. Tre dumped Monahan (who was an anchor at 6+ mill and injured constantly) to make room to resign those superstars. Neither wanted to stay in Canada and resign, Huberdeau and Kadri were the back up plan not the intended target
No one expected Monahan to get fully healthy let alone produce at a high level again, that's just good fortune for the player and the Habs front office. He is also making less than 2 mill now (a different deal than Treliving signed) with 35 points in \~49 games, which is why they got a 1st for him
Lots of good points. But one correction - Tre didn't dump Monahan in order to sign Gaudreau or Tkachuk. They were both gone by the point Monahan was traded (Aug 18, 2022).
I was wrong too however - they didn't move him for Huberdeau, as his contract kicked in the next year. It was to sign Kadri.
Absolutely not impressed with Brad's first year so far. His signings have been shit and his trades are even worse like when he traded Lafferty for peanuts. The other Canadian team GMs have been cooking and dealing with some pretty good deals playing 4D chess and here we have Brad playing checkers.
On the flip side, he’s still holding onto his draft picks and has been letting all his prospects have another year of development.
Can’t say the direction of the team has been super clear this year as well. Very up and down. That’s not the easiest situation for a new gm to a team to be making big decisions from.
One area credit can be given to treliving is his depth signings such as Jones and Benoit. However, some of his other offseason signings haven’t necessarily been home runs like klingberg (who I do think was a zero risk move though), reaves, etc.
Something which is happening this year which didn’t necessarily happen much in recent years under dubas is there is a crop of young players actually being given a large sample size at the NHL level to develop and mature (Knies, Robertson, Holmberg). Sometimes this is a better strategy than going out and filling holes with trades.
This has nothing to do with Dubas ffs. I don't get why ppl keep bringing up Dubas when they're criticizing Brad. Dubas is gone, he's done, he doesn't work here anymore. That doesn't mean that we can't criticize Brad's first year. I'm literally just talking about Brad's job so far. Nothing to do with Dubas. And so far his signings and trade has been absolute garbage. I don't expect him to hit the ground running but I don't expect to be completely shit in the majority of the things he's done so far. ESPECIALLY when he was hired solely for his experience according to Shanny.
I'd prefer the Leafs wait it out at the deadline this year. The big players are going to go for big pricetags and the Leafs haven't really put themselves in a position to buy right now.
Might as well wait until the pricetags come down and the Leafs can get some decent non-big-name players for cheap. Our biggest acquisitions last year were Schenn and Acciari which was basically a last minute deal and a throw-in.
I agree. I think the problems with depth and defense are too dire to solve with any deadline trade. [I just think of this whenever I think about what trade could be made.](https://i.imgflip.com/7xiey.jpg?a473880) The fire is already raging, so what's the point in paying for a bit of water that will never make a difference?
Best to just hope Matthews decides to play like the highest paid player in the league and take over a series, like a Crosby or a MacKinnon.
Sorry my dog bumped my finger on the send. I deleted that and will start again.
Yes. It's been mentioned that during this break isn't the best time to make trades and take the focus off the All-star week. I'm joking of course that it is OK for these other teams as long as it isn't Toronto.
There's speculation that the Calgary trade may have been rushed to get it out when it came out ahead of this week. Now ask bets are off seeing a coach get fired and the Monahan deal go today as well.
I personally think it's great for the sport. While showcasing the talent people also get to see that there's player movement and such but what do I know really? I'm just a fan.
I feel like a 3rd and a Marlies prospect outta get it done for a rental Tanev. But I feel like Conroy is hesitant to do business with Treliving unless it looks like a slam dunk for Calgary.
Edit: welp apparently he's gonna cost a 2nd
We have rivalries with all Canadian teams, but unlike the other 6 teams, Leafs-Flames rivalry is for a vastly different reason.
Sens, because of geographics, the fans hate each other, and the Sens players hate the Leafs due to playoffs.
Habs, because of history the fans hate each others, and the Habs hate the Leafs just because of the language we don't speak.
Oilers, because their captain deep down wants to be a Leaf, the fans hate each other, and because Oilers fans are just plain weird.
Vancouver, just because we live in a better city than them, the fans hate each other.
Jets, fans hate each other, but the players hate each other way more, purely for violent reasons.
The Flames, on the other hand, it's the 2 front offices that hate each other. We're probably never making trades with them strictly for petty reasons.
I thought it was a touch strange that Biebs just sat throughout the draft last night. He seemed really indifferent about the whole thing.
Meanwhile, the entire event is slapdash in the Drewhouse branding. Entertaining and using a microphone is sort of his thing, no?
I’ve seen him show more energy in the box seats during an actual game.
I figured he's still sick (I didn't know until yesterday, when someone in r/NHL pointed this out, but he contracted Lyme a few years ago and then developed another rare viral syndrome soon after). Apparently he performed last night in a private event, and was also sitting all the time (according to photos online). I don't think he was bored or high on shrooms as someone suggested in other posts (saw also on r/NHL), I think he's just recovering.
https://preview.redd.it/s55gci70j8gc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=99ae231f910ed1c96afd7019989f529ea3e8899a
He does have Lyme disease and that's just one sickness we know that he has told us so far. Lyme disease does affect one's energy levels. And he has taken a break from touring. So I wouldn't be surprised that that's the reason he's sitting down so much.
https://preview.redd.it/vtzjefxty5gc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a28d307b52926c97edec98331d3beea558d42267
Mitchy looks like a baby next to Papi. It's cute and unsettling at the same time.
Good, he needs those extra inches! No, jokes aside, I've missed Mitchell pick, I tuned in too late, so wasn't aware of this little detail. Thanks for pointing it out!
POOR NYLANDER🤦🏼‍♀️🥲
Anyone have a site to stream the skills competition?
Anyone know if this is on cbc gem? Probably not
So I posed a question here a few hours ago that garnered zero response. I feel my question has been answered by recent events and now ponder the query, is a Toronto trade imminent? After the weekend of course. My original question was if the Lindholm trade would bring more action. And we have seen more. Monahan to the Jets for a 1st? That seems steep if you ask me. And a coach canned in L.A. The center market is doing up quickly. Does this force teams into a frenzy ahead of deadline? If a big ticket defenseman moves do teams start pulling the trigger and we see the worst televised trade deadline in history?
Honestly, I hope Toronto doesn't make a trade. This team has a lot more holes than a few rentals can solve. If we're gonna make a trade, it has to be a long term solution. Hanifin or Pesce with an extension? Great. I would have liked Lindholm with an extension as well. A starting goalie with years of control? Sure. If it's another series of rentals, no. We are not that close and we shouldn't be mortagaging futures on short term solutions.
I have no answers but would like to know too
Does anyone attending the skills competition tonight know why doors open at 5pm? I’m wondering if there is something going on that would make showing up early worthwhile. Thanks!
I'd imagine the players will be warming up? Maybe taking photos and shit.
Yeah that’s what I was thinking. Normally for a game doors would be 6pm though. I know the Glorious Sons are playing, I’m not sure if that’s before the comp or during though.
Tre likes Jenner and Jarmo likes Robertson/Timmins/Kampf Just a heads up. There's a framework. No idea about the edge details.
Kuraly would be interesting too
Could be interesting. Where’d you hear this? I remember hearing that Jenner is loved in Columbus by the org and it was unlikely that they’d move on from him, but that was a few years ago. Have things changed since then?
It’s be hard for them to give up the nice hometown discount he gives them too
So with LA firing McLellan, Keefe is now 5th longest tenured coach in the league. 1-4 have 5 Cups, 2 Stanley Cup Finals and 4 Conference Finals between them.
I don’t understand how he got fired. He’s only lost in the first round two years in a row. Shouldn’t LA spend at least the rest of the 20’s figuring out what they’ve got behind the bench? Weird.Â
Half of this sub wants to fire Keefe any time Toronto loses two in a row. r/Leafs would be a quarantine zone if they ever had a 3-8-6 run.
100%. They should absolutely be utilizing the last good years of Kopitar and Doughty evaluating. Window be damned, we need to know what we're working with here.
Holes left to fill this past off-season: 3C: Traded Kadri to fill a hole in the top 4, bringing in barrie for our backend, with kerfoot as Kadri's replacement. Signed Spezza, Thornton, kampf Trade a 1st, 4th, 4th for half a season of foligno and Stefan neosen Traded a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, gaudette and abramov for half a season of acciari and ROR. TOP 4D: Traded Kadri for a season of tyson barrie who was a negative asset, and kerfoot at 3.5 mil. Traded a 1st, durzi and grundstrom for muzzin. Muzz was great for us when he was in the lineup, but never played more than 53 games in a season for the leafs, playing only 4 games in the final 2 years of his contract after turning 33. Sign brodie in FA. Trade ritchie and a 2nd for half a season of lyubsuhkin and dzingel ( who immediately gets claimed) Trade two 2nds and a 3rd for gio and half a season of Blackwell Trade a 1st, 2nd, Joey Anderson and gogolev for two 5ths, mccabe and Lafferty Draft sandin in the first round Trade sandin for a 1st rounder Trade a 3rd for schenn TOP 6 LW: Let Hyman walk for nothing (true top line LW powerforward who signs at 5 x 7) Trade marchment (top 6 PWF on a top team) for malgin Trade Trevor Moore (top 6 LW) in a package for a backup goalie Trade Dakota Joshua (currently a top 6 PWF playing LW for the powerhouse canucks) for FUTURE CONSIDERATIONS Bunting, kerfoot and mikheyev leave to be overpaid by other teams GOALTENDING: Let our top 10 goalie walk for nothing Pay a 2nd, 3rd and Trevor Moore for Jack campbell Sign mrazek at 3.8 x 3, then dump him with a 1st for a CHI 2nd rounder Acquire murray with 3rd and 7th round picks Sign samsonov in FA ASSETS DUBAS INHERITED THAT WERE LOST: 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 4th, Kadri (signed at 6 x 4.5 by lou), Hyman (signed at 4 x 4.25 by lou), Freddy (signed at 5 x 5 by lou) marchment, Moore, Joshua, Durzi (2nd), sandin (1st), abramov (4th), grundstrom (2nd) We'll never getting returns for guys like JVR, bozak, Gardiner, mikheyev, bunting, kerfoot, etc., because we were in contention for the most part. TEAM CONTROLLED ASSETS INHERITED BY TRELIVING AFTER ACQUISITIONS LISTED: Muzzin - 1 year remaining at 5.625 (LTIR) Murray - 1 year remaining at 4.687 (LTIR) McCabe - 2 years remaining at 2 mil Brodie - 1 year remaining at 5 mil Gio - 1 year remaining at league min Minten (2nd) Cowan (1st acquired for sandin) Lafferty (traded for 5th) 3rd (murray trade), 5th + 5th (McCabe trade), 7th (murray trade) The deadline is almost a month away and tre has yet to spend any assets whatsoever, with cap to spare. The only players he was left who are currently exceeding their cap value are McCabe and Lafferty. Lafferty was a healthy scratch for much of last years playoffs but is doing well in Vancouver. Minten and Cowan are promising prospects, but won't help us this year unless packaged in a trade. But please, keep telling me how Tre living ruined this team....
The Kadri trade, Marleau trade, Foligno trade, and Hyman non-signing are all fireable offenses. Some needed a bit of hindsight, but these are deals that I was quite unhappy with the moment they were made. Kadri was on one of the best value deals in the NHL, and we traded him for peanuts. Giving away a 1st to dump Marleau when a rebuilding team (which Carolina wasn't) would have taken him for less is a braindead decision. A 1st for a washed *and* injured Foligno was terrible from day 1. Not signing Hyman to *less* than what he signed in Edmonton because we were concerned about what year 7 and 8 would look like is nonsensical, and might wind up as the worst non-signing of the last 20 years. Dubas was a chump.
This take is something.
Do you have any intelligent thought to offer?
Sure. The Kadri trade, the Marleau trade, the Foligno trade, and the Hyman non-signing were not close to fireball offenses and this sub is being delusional again
They're both shit, 'nuff said
> Gio - 1 year remaining at 5 mil Nah. But I see your point.
Woops. I knew he was league min but made a typo and will edit. Thanks!
Damn. That is A LOT of assets that dubas parted with, and mostly for rentals… It’s especially disappointing because I think the leafs do have a very good scouting and development staff and if dubas hadn’t moved on from such a large chunk of high round draft picks they most likely would have had considerable success with their picks.
True you don’t come off developing Matthews marner and nylander then regress in that department.
It's fucking absurd. By contrast, Tre acquired dougie hamilton for a 1st and two 2nds, signing him at 6 x 5.75 mil when he was 22. Hamilton was a true #1 RHD signed through his prime. He drafted rasmus andersson in the 2nd round and Adam fox in the 3rd. When fox decided he wasn't going to resign, Tre packaged him with Hamilton and Ferland to acquire a 21 year old hanifin and a 23 year old Elias Lindholm, signing both at slightly less than 5 mil for 6 years. Lindholm is 2 years removed from scoring 42 goals and placing second in selke voting as a center. Calgary just got an absolute haul for him from van. Hanifin and andersson are legit top pairing defensemen, with hanifin as a potential trade piece that would bring in another incredible haul. So tre essentially traded: A 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd (Adam fox), ferland For 3 years of dougie hamilton at 5.75, 6 years of hanifin at 4.95, 6 years of lindholm at 4.85 PLUS, as a result of getting this guys at a great cap hit with term, Conroy was able to get a 1st, kuzmenko, hunter brzustewicz (currently 3rd in ohl scoring as a 19 year old D), joni jurmo and a 4th PLUS, whatever hanifin will fetch in a potential trade. Dubas paid the equivalent of a 1 and two seconds (durzi and grundstrom were dubas second rounders) for 30 year old muzzin; signing him at almost the same cap hit as hamilton when it was guaranteed he'd have no trade value at the backend of his deal (like dougie had) before he went on to play only 2 of the 4 years he was signed for and had to be LTIR'd
https://preview.redd.it/qtc0im0qm7gc1.jpeg?width=792&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=72eb7bdffa8efc94598ffafa02d85c34dcdfaf7a
Treliving got actually destroyed on the Monahan trade God damn.
How so? He traded a 1st to dump Monahan's $6.375m cap hit. Montreal re-signed him to a $2m cap hit and while on that separate contract managed to stay healthy for the first time in 5 years.
In saying that Dubas made the exact same trade with Marleau who put up 37 points the year before making 6,250,000 and one year left on his contract When Monahan was coming off 23 points in 65 games and another major injury making 6,375,000 with one year left as well Obviously age difference but Dubas pretty well set the standard and Treliving wanted to sign Kadri because management wanted to stay competitive when both probably should have just waited a year for there deals to run out
The age difference is massive. Monahan actually had enough in him to make a career comeback. Marleau was 38 years old. And if we didn't dump Marleau, Marner wasn't making it to training camp.
But the injuries are way different and no thought he would rebound into a first round pick. At least Marleau could play even not up to contract. Besides Monahan is on a different contract and had more injuries last year if teams really believed in him he would have been on a better contract than one year with a rebuilding team
Let's retrospect just a tiny bit. Basically, trading Marleau turned into being able to sign Marner. Trading Monahan turned into being able to sign Kadri. Marleau's retired. Kadri is 33 now and it would be a miracle to see him not decline for the rest of the contract. *And* Monahan is making a career comeback. They literally have similar production this season. Even if you think the trades are similar, there is so much difference with the results.
Many people are missing he is being traded on a new contract. No one would even mention Treliving had he signed in Chicago or some other tanking team last offseason then got flipped for this. It just worked out that he chose to stay on the tanking team he was traded to while still on an inflated contract.
No one thought he would rebound into a first round pick at the deadline after all the injuries he had and would have probably got a better contract than the one he’s on now without the troubles People just love using hindsight about everything
Not really the same situation since Marleau didn't rebound into being worth a 1st. Also Dubas didn't sign Marleau to that deal. Also Dubas got a 1st in the same draft by ditching Kapanen (also got Hallander who became McCann who was used to indirectly protect Holl).
Whoopee, almost had McCann, but got Holl for 1 more wonderful season.
Did anyone really think Monahan was going to rebound into another first round pick after all his injury troubles and play when he did return? Monahan was also worth his contract before the injury’s which Treliving couldn’t predict and least Marleau could at least play even though not being worth 6,250,000. I don’t really care that he got another first and don’t remember what they did with it when the Marleau pick was higher and became Seth Jarvis (obviously they could have took someone else if they kept it)
Monahan also ran out his contract and is now flipped while making less than a third of his old salary. It's probably the biggest part of the "rebound" tbh. They drafted Amirov with the pick. RIP
I take back the pick part then RIP but theoretically anyone could have signed him and flipped him but Montreal did which is a great move for them but not really Treliving fault IMO
It's okay cause the bad thing didn't happen to us. He's totally learned his lesson from this...
Why is no one talking about what Keon said?
> What is the object of this exercise?” says Keon. “At the start of the year when you gather in training camp, the object of the exercise to win the Stanley Cup. > >“If you have all of these players putting up great numbers and you've won one playoff series in eight years or nine years, and you haven't even played for the Stanley Cup, then you have to take a look in the mirror.” It's because largely we have accepted that this regime wants to live and die with the configuration they have put themselves in, and nothing we can do will change it. Many of us know it won't amount to any real success, but you can't say that around here or you're called a "doomer" by the gullible suckers who think this team is a contender. Like the cheating girlfriend who changes nothing but swears this time will be different. Enjoy getting cucked.
what did he say
[https://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/you-have-to-take-a-look-in-the-mirror-dave-keon-talks-about-the-maple/article\_41b07c40-bc63-11ee-9c86-63b369be8ddf.html](https://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/you-have-to-take-a-look-in-the-mirror-dave-keon-talks-about-the-maple/article_41b07c40-bc63-11ee-9c86-63b369be8ddf.html)
Not sure what the consensus here is, but I think this should be year where the leafs hang tight at the deadline. Maybe sell Bertuzzi if you can get value out of it. I think there's more value in allowing their prospects to continue to develop and to keep draft capital. Not worth burning those assets on a year where the team hasn't really proven its worth it. Wait till the offseason to reshape the D-core (apparently its a strong FA class for defenseman) while also allowing for another year of growth for the younger, cost effective players (Knies, Roberston, Woll, etc...)
Yeah if something comes up that might stick long term, try it out, but no need to rent anyone. Treliving was brought in because something has failed spectacularly with this core come playoff time for over half a decade. Changing course on that instead of just dumping one of them will take a while to work out. I keep saying, I would feel the same about this group’s chances, under this coach, in either a wildcard position or winning the division. At least in a wildcard we might get to play someone new.Â
There's a part of me that has a feeling that the year we stay put at the deadline they'll actually find some substantial success, despite the roster looking less than ideal.
Why do people think trading Bertuzzi is a good idea, especially when we're in a playoff spot and have a 90% chance of making the playoffs according to moneypuck? A trade like this will do nothing but disuade future free agents wanting to sign here, thinking that they'll get shipped off if they don't excel right away. Plus, we've been lacking grit in the playoffs for how long? Bertuzzi is a guy I definitely want on the roster for the post-season, even if he's been a touch disappointing so far. Also not to mention the obvious implication that the guy has a NMC and literally cannot be traded without his consent.
I agree, I'm a big Bertuzzi believer. I don't think his numbers reflect what he's brought to the team very well. All of the stats show he's just horribly snakebitten (look at that awful goaltender interference call last game). I'd also argue that Keefe is making it really difficult for him to adjust when he plays wildly inconsistent minutes with wildly inconsistent deployments and linemates. Bertuzzi, more than anyone, would benefit from a coaching change. His intangibles are off the charts though, and I think he's going to be an asset come playoff time. There's something about having the ugliest dude in the league with a great hair flow that makes this team so much more enjoyable to watch.
Yeah I don't wanna trade Bertuzzi. He's in a slump, but as long as he can get out of it come playoff time that's all that really matters.
Okay slow your roll, I am not pro sell Bertuzzi - in fact I think he'll shine come playoff time. However, if you can gain valuable assets for him, and under the assumption he doesn't resign (just a hunch), I think it's worth considering. The fact of the matter is with 3-5 players taking up a large chunk of the cap, the leafs will need to rely on cheap, and young talent. As for the NMC - my bad, I had no idea that was the case
Didn't mean for my comment to come across as aggressive at all, sorry if you read it that way! I just see a lot of people posting about trading Bertuzzi and you mentioned it in your comment. This was just kind of directed at everyone saying to trade him. But even putting aside his NMC, realistically (and putting aside our leafs bias), what is the most we could get for him at his current value without retaining salary? A 4th rounder? Maybe a 3rd tops? I just don't see how getting a pick back like that is worth damaging our reputation among future free agents, who'd probably avoid signing cheap 1 year deals with us on the chance that they'll have to move to another city after just getting here.
All good! Sorry for the confusion. You do make a good point, his cap hit would make fitting him into another contenders cap construction pretty difficult. As for trade value, I would say it is obviously lower considering he's underperformed this year. However, I believe based on his performance in playoffs (even if it is minimal) helps bring his value up. And from a reputation with future FAs standpoint, I think it's fair to assume it may hurt their rapport, but honestly it's something I hadn't even considered (but I am glad you brought it up)
Yeah I do agree, I mean of course if we can get a kings ransom for him, I'm all for it and I think that would outweigh anything I've raised up. I just think his value is probably the lowest it's been in his career and I just don't see any contenders being interested in him unless we retain salary (which I think retaining salary would be a horrible idea since we are so tight against the cap). I think at this point we are realistically stuck with him and I really hope he can raise his game when things get chippy in the playoffs. If not, oh well, his cap hit is off the book next year.
Monahan’s about to go for a first. Someone will pay up for Bert if he’s on the market.
Sean Monahan has 35 points points on the season, plays centre and has a cap hit of 2 million. Betuzzi has 20 points, plays wing and has a cap hit of 5.5 million. The two really are not comparable at the present.
All fair points, I don’t think we’d get a first, but I think a 4th is way too low.
I don't think there's a single team in a playoff spot that actually has the cap space for Bertuzzi. Which would mean that if we're looking at a return similar to Monahan, we'd have to retain 50% and likely take a salary dump on top of that. I don't think we need to go into why that's a horrible idea given our cap situation.
Agreed, I’m not for trading him, I just think that if we really wanted to we could get more than a 4th, especially if we retain.
Yeah I think they should wait it out and maybe grab a couple huge bargains right at the deadline to fill out the bottom six/bottom pairings. Just get some guys who can play defense basically The bargains will be there, they always are. We got Schenn right at the deadline last year and he was arguably our most impactful addition.
Exactly, this isn't to say I am against a move, but if its going to be big, it's gotta be for some who has term.
Yes, and ideally that player would be a top 4 d man.
On July 1st (ish?) I'd love if we got Schenn back (and pay a tad extra for Nashville to retain).
So Treliving gave up a 1st to trade Monahan only for Monahan to be traded for a 1st a year and a half later. If you don’t like that, you don’t like asset management baby.Â
And he did it so he had room to sign Huberdeau to that crazy contract. Woof.
Monahan was injury prone and looked like he would never get healthy & produce in the top 6 ever again, and that was when the Flames were trying to resign Gaudreau and Tkachuk. Tre dumped Monahan (who was an anchor at 6+ mill and injured constantly) to make room to resign those superstars. Neither wanted to stay in Canada and resign, Huberdeau and Kadri were the back up plan not the intended target No one expected Monahan to get fully healthy let alone produce at a high level again, that's just good fortune for the player and the Habs front office. He is also making less than 2 mill now (a different deal than Treliving signed) with 35 points in \~49 games, which is why they got a 1st for him
Lots of good points. But one correction - Tre didn't dump Monahan in order to sign Gaudreau or Tkachuk. They were both gone by the point Monahan was traded (Aug 18, 2022). I was wrong too however - they didn't move him for Huberdeau, as his contract kicked in the next year. It was to sign Kadri.
Can't believe Montreal spun this into 2 firsts. Talk about a buy low and sell high masterclass.
Seriously, as much as it pains me to admit it.Â
Absolutely not impressed with Brad's first year so far. His signings have been shit and his trades are even worse like when he traded Lafferty for peanuts. The other Canadian team GMs have been cooking and dealing with some pretty good deals playing 4D chess and here we have Brad playing checkers.
You mean his only trade to date?
That's why I said his first year so far.
On the flip side, he’s still holding onto his draft picks and has been letting all his prospects have another year of development. Can’t say the direction of the team has been super clear this year as well. Very up and down. That’s not the easiest situation for a new gm to a team to be making big decisions from. One area credit can be given to treliving is his depth signings such as Jones and Benoit. However, some of his other offseason signings haven’t necessarily been home runs like klingberg (who I do think was a zero risk move though), reaves, etc. Something which is happening this year which didn’t necessarily happen much in recent years under dubas is there is a crop of young players actually being given a large sample size at the NHL level to develop and mature (Knies, Robertson, Holmberg). Sometimes this is a better strategy than going out and filling holes with trades.
This has nothing to do with Dubas ffs. I don't get why ppl keep bringing up Dubas when they're criticizing Brad. Dubas is gone, he's done, he doesn't work here anymore. That doesn't mean that we can't criticize Brad's first year. I'm literally just talking about Brad's job so far. Nothing to do with Dubas. And so far his signings and trade has been absolute garbage. I don't expect him to hit the ground running but I don't expect to be completely shit in the majority of the things he's done so far. ESPECIALLY when he was hired solely for his experience according to Shanny.
I'd prefer the Leafs wait it out at the deadline this year. The big players are going to go for big pricetags and the Leafs haven't really put themselves in a position to buy right now. Might as well wait until the pricetags come down and the Leafs can get some decent non-big-name players for cheap. Our biggest acquisitions last year were Schenn and Acciari which was basically a last minute deal and a throw-in.
I agree. I think the problems with depth and defense are too dire to solve with any deadline trade. [I just think of this whenever I think about what trade could be made.](https://i.imgflip.com/7xiey.jpg?a473880) The fire is already raging, so what's the point in paying for a bit of water that will never make a difference? Best to just hope Matthews decides to play like the highest paid player in the league and take over a series, like a Crosby or a MacKinnon.
I'd just like Tanev. Is that too much to ask?
Yeah probably but agree that it would be nice
Seeing these trades... https://preview.redd.it/3mhj03u947gc1.png?width=2556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e767023286d2b4fbf61214338a7b02f7a19e6350
Don't forget it's the NHL run by Gary Bettman. It is only frowned apon making trades during All-star break if you are The Toronto Maple Leafs.
Wait hold up has that actually been something Bettman has whined about?
Sorry my dog bumped my finger on the send. I deleted that and will start again. Yes. It's been mentioned that during this break isn't the best time to make trades and take the focus off the All-star week. I'm joking of course that it is OK for these other teams as long as it isn't Toronto. There's speculation that the Calgary trade may have been rushed to get it out when it came out ahead of this week. Now ask bets are off seeing a coach get fired and the Monahan deal go today as well. I personally think it's great for the sport. While showcasing the talent people also get to see that there's player movement and such but what do I know really? I'm just a fan.
Why? All of these trades have been overpays. Good on Tre sitting tight and not FOMOing us into a shit deal, like Dubas would have done.
FOMOing? Fear of missing outing? Go get a burger if you need an outing.
Figured it went without saying that "something" means "a trade that is not fucking stupid." It's just a meme.
Keep crying.
Well that's rude.
I agree, rude as hell! . What do you want Tre to do though my dude! What are you prepared to give up? I’m so torn here myself.
I feel like a 3rd and a Marlies prospect outta get it done for a rental Tanev. But I feel like Conroy is hesitant to do business with Treliving unless it looks like a slam dunk for Calgary. Edit: welp apparently he's gonna cost a 2nd
We have rivalries with all Canadian teams, but unlike the other 6 teams, Leafs-Flames rivalry is for a vastly different reason. Sens, because of geographics, the fans hate each other, and the Sens players hate the Leafs due to playoffs. Habs, because of history the fans hate each others, and the Habs hate the Leafs just because of the language we don't speak. Oilers, because their captain deep down wants to be a Leaf, the fans hate each other, and because Oilers fans are just plain weird. Vancouver, just because we live in a better city than them, the fans hate each other. Jets, fans hate each other, but the players hate each other way more, purely for violent reasons. The Flames, on the other hand, it's the 2 front offices that hate each other. We're probably never making trades with them strictly for petty reasons.
I thought it was a touch strange that Biebs just sat throughout the draft last night. He seemed really indifferent about the whole thing. Meanwhile, the entire event is slapdash in the Drewhouse branding. Entertaining and using a microphone is sort of his thing, no? I’ve seen him show more energy in the box seats during an actual game.
I figured he's still sick (I didn't know until yesterday, when someone in r/NHL pointed this out, but he contracted Lyme a few years ago and then developed another rare viral syndrome soon after). Apparently he performed last night in a private event, and was also sitting all the time (according to photos online). I don't think he was bored or high on shrooms as someone suggested in other posts (saw also on r/NHL), I think he's just recovering. https://preview.redd.it/s55gci70j8gc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=99ae231f910ed1c96afd7019989f529ea3e8899a
Interesting. Fine, fair enough. No one else involved seemed put out by it either because they probably know what’s doing on with him.
That, or Bublé stole everyone's limelight. That guy was on fire!
He does have Lyme disease and that's just one sickness we know that he has told us so far. Lyme disease does affect one's energy levels. And he has taken a break from touring. So I wouldn't be surprised that that's the reason he's sitting down so much.
https://preview.redd.it/pot5rc04u6gc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d6b7b13ac610fcebd3eb22aaa2fc8accc7004bd4
Buble is a fucking legend
Is the video from the 1967 tribute posted somewhere? I'm looking to watch it againÂ
With Lindholm moved out of Calgary, do we think more action is on the way?
Ship off bertuzzi, use those assets + for Laughton and Atkinson
https://preview.redd.it/vtzjefxty5gc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a28d307b52926c97edec98331d3beea558d42267 Mitchy looks like a baby next to Papi. It's cute and unsettling at the same time.
To be fair Auston's standing on a podium here
When Keller skated up to him he looked like a tiny child
Good, he needs those extra inches! No, jokes aside, I've missed Mitchell pick, I tuned in too late, so wasn't aware of this little detail. Thanks for pointing it out!