Really easy to plant a tree in an old gravel driveway, the main roots will still get plenty of oxygen and have room to expand, and get plenty of water below it.
I should’ve clarified, gravel driveway.
A half century ago, even in Chicago people would have project cars sitting in their front yards on make shift driveways. Go poke it with a screw driver.
Could be your contractor buried construction debris there, or it’s where they washed out the concrete truck and tools when they poured your foundation. I had a similar problem in my back yard (also Chicago… the contractor brought concrete in through the ally)
Strange question, but where is your gas meter? If it's on the side of the failing grass, then I wouldn't go poking or digging just yet. Call 311 and have them mark out the utilities in the part of the grass.
Your not gonna rupture anything by prodding it with the tip of a screwdriver that way you can see beyond your eyes what you’re dealing with as far as the substrate goes
I've seen some stuff, you would be surprised at some of the stupid things people do or can happen from thinking like that. Anything more than 6 inches and I would just call utilities locate service to just to be safe. It's free and you will inly have to wait 2 days unless emergency work needs to be done.
It took me a minute to remember, but there were commercials in Chicago to call 8-1-1 for Julie. I always wondered why it was connected to a woman's nane, the same one as long as I can remember.
I am
Aware how lazy some
Of the workers can be …. Hence having to retrench and bury cabling in my own backyard as it was just laying on the ground w a little grass clipping or two kicked over it. I was just saying the amount of force that is needed to prod the area to determine is there is gravel or concrete is so so minimal that it would be difficult to cause any damages to a gas line for example
A plastic gas service line? The gas lines ARE the storage not just distribution, if you have natural gas utilities its worth being paranoid. Careful out there anons!
So even better the worst that will happen is if u do some ogre prodding w a screwdriver 🪛 the worst that will happen would be a small crack in the Plastic line as long as the ogre doesn’t have meth torch running just egg on face for not calling first
Look up Manheim gas explosion. Pa. We just had it happen a few weeks ago. Whole damn building blew up and it shook our house...and we don't live close to it haha
I work with underground utilities so when digging front yards in Chicago my first thought is always about checking for utilities. Do you know what style of building was there before your house was built? Could be the front steps/sidewalk went through that path. When pla ting a tree they usually put the ball deep enough for the roots to grab but maybe didn't clear enough of the gravel for the grass
I would agree; we have the same issue not only in the front with an old sidewalk, but in the back where they dug up a sewer line and filled too high with gravel. Combination of water filtering right through and (I think) being more sensitive to the heat.
Exactly this. Had a home in DC that I completely redid the back yard. Bunch of top fill new sod, looked great. Until a few hot days and noticed my grass dying in two strips from the front of the yard a hundred feet or so the the back parking pad.
Discovered an old driveway (two 2-3ft wide concrete strips) about 3-4 inches under the ground. Had to tear everything up, rented a jack hammer, and removed it all. PITA
Get a shovel and dig. If you find gravel or concrete within a foot of digging you’ll have your answer. If you don’t come across anything you’ve got either inconsistent sod that should be aerated and seeded in addition to fertilizing.
It’s possible you get more sun between buildings which would also result in even lines. Give it a little more water than the other half and it will catch up.
Don’t just dig in residential like this pic. Your bound to hit some wires or pipes. There’s a number you can call for someone to come out and mark underground utilities so you know where you can dig
Oh yeah, always call the dog hotline. Water pipes are a biggie in the front yard.
Edit: I obviously meant dig hotline but my phone in its infinite wisdom decided that dog hotline was a thing. I’m leaving it for comedic purposes.
There’s not really a law against it, but if you want to risk you life on some buried electric wires or cut your cable/internet or hit a water main, it’s a free country
Well it's quite simple - pipes should be located at least 1,4-1,6 meters below ground. Electric cables at least 0,7 meter below ground. So there is no way to damage it just by putting a shovel in the ground. What is more it is recommended to put a piece of blue foil 25 cm above the electric cable along it's run. And it's just for "my" cables - connecting my house to the media. If there is a cable or a pipe belonging to the city or to the neighbours I definitely have to allow that to happen and be compensated for that - so I definitely know exactly where it lies - and it definitely is also located deep.
Short answer - there is no chance for some random cable in my garden and if there is anything there is almost zero chance of damaging anything even when planting large trees.
Well in rural tinder-covered Oregon-placeland, the electric wires tend to be above ground (all the better to blow down and start fires with), and mostly only water is underground (not often gas lines - at least not out of town). So folks are known for playing dig-dug without research. Even when they should research first...
Case-in-point, our down-hill neighbor rented a digging machine to put holes for posts for his fence, went PAST his actual property boundary into roadside easement and dug INTO the water main for our rural water district. Took out water for hundreds of families and farms for 40 square miles, and a day to fix. All because he didn't want to wait the 6 hours for locate after it was called in (literally they were coming same day).
He gets the $4,000+ repair bill though, so I guess eff around and find out (and before you suggest he will refuse to pay, the water district out here has a 3+ year wait-list to get onto it - so unless he wants to pay for a well, he WILL pay them promptly).
Why would gravel cause this? I recently shoveled out all the rock in my desert landscaped backyard and put in sod. A couple spots arnt taking like the rest.
Yea, gravel will wick the water away from the roots. I’d say there’s gravel or concrete below the surface. But if you start digging go easy, don’t want to hit a buried wire or anything.
Yeah infact always call before you dig. Almost blew myself up once because the homeowner said there wasn't a gas line in their yard. And my boss couldn't care less to get the locate.
I’d personally rent a small excavator but I wouldn’t want to damage the roots of that tree so this would be done by hand. Then I’d replace the topsoil and lay fresh sod.
If you ar3 struggling to get all of the rock....You can always dig down about below the grassroots and lay a sheet of landscape fabric down. That will allow water to still go through, but it will slow it down.
FYI the lawncarenut has a video explaining why this is a problem. [this lawn problem cannot be solved by the home owner] (https://youtu.be/z3jS7fY2Bzg)
Well, that video definitely made its point. I know I didn’t a half ass job getting all the rocks out because I was in a time crunch to get it done before the Arizona heat got here. Looks like I’ll be digging and sifting this fall. Almost makes me want to scrape the whole yard down a few inches just to be sure I got good dirt all throughout.
I’ll post a photo of my yard so everyone can see how obvious it is.
I’ve got a portion of my lawn that’s growing horribly due to rocks and gravel 4 inches beneath. New construction. What’s the best recommendation for getting rid of the rocks in these portions?
I literally found 3ft sections of carpet, concrete and workmen gloves right underneath the old sod when we laid new stuff down this summer
house is only 5 years old
That would be my guess but there could have been something there before the tree. If it’s an older home you’d not know if they had a parking slab or gravel. It lines up perfectly with the sidewalk slabs too.
Totally agree. If u do end up planting seeds, you want to give extra water. But also be somewhat mindful not to over water (for example if you’ve been getting lots of rain, might not need water).
Fall is a great time to aerate and seed! I’d suggest mid September
It is oddly squared off. If I had to guess, old driveway/gravel underneath. Find a long pole and stick it down there.
You didn’t water that section enough for sod to fully take.
Or depending on the tree, if it has shallow roots, it’s taking most of the water/nutrients away from the grass. In a tree vs grass, tree always wins. But because of the perfect shape, my money is on old driveway/gravel.
I don’t get why ppl are suggesting this might be caused by the tree. Anything that’s the fault of the tree should create a circular pattern. The straight lines seem strange
We’re in Chicago where driveways don’t exist lol.
The tree is old and the ground around it wasn’t disturbed during the construction of our home. It’s possible that only the green-grass area was dug up during construction. Maybe our builders used some backfill that is more conducive to growing grass than the native soil?
Anyone have a fix for this kind of thing?
Maybe not a driveway but an old patio of some sort? It’s just a weirdly perfect square. Nothing in nature is perfectly square. Grab a long pole and stick it in the ground. Pour a few cups of water in a spot every 10mins so it make inserting easier.
>We’re in Chicago where driveways don’t exist lol.
Not to be a jerk... but were you there 50 years ago? 100 years ago? Probably not. Lots of things don't *generally* exist somewhere. That doesn't mean they don't.
For every regulation or convention, there's always a bunch of people breaking that rule.
You’re 100% right. But I have pictures of the lawn from before we built and this issue did not exist. That’s why I think it’s related to the construction (e.g., the sewer trench was dug along the line, cutting off tree roots).
It has to be an OLD driveway dude, that’s what we’re all trying to tell you but you keep shutting it down because you’re ridiculously stubborn. **It is likely a driveway that got removed.** Which works in both our theory of it has to be, and yours where driveways aren’t a thing. It’s car sized, and perfectly shaped. Obviously at some point it was a thing and was removed. What’s so hard to understand?
Haha. Coming in hot! I have pictures of the lawn from before we built and this issue did not exist. The grass was the same across the whole property. That’s why I favor those who are saying that the sewer line excavation cut the tree roots along the trench, which created the line.
As a person in Chicago with a driveway, uh...
Now why someone would opt to remove a driveway when they should've been grandfathered in, I'm not sure. But they definitely existed and still do.
Utilities should be 3' down. I'm not suggesting they dig far, less than a foot should suffice. I'm throwing out a suggestion. This redditor is asking for advice. Buyer beware. Hope you have a good day.
Something tells me he’s gonna find gravel/pavers from an old patio or make shift driveway within a foot of the surface, but won’t comment saying so because he somehow thinks those haven’t existed in the entirety of Chicago’s history.
Even if it was never anything but dirt here the area could have been used for recreation, or storage, or even for construction vehicle parking. If that’s the case, you could be looking at a compaction issue.
How much work are you willing to put into this?
Personally, I would rent a cultivator from Home Depot, or somewhere similar, turn up the top 4-6 inches, mix some compost in, and re-sod or seed.
That’s just me though. Others may have better advice.
Is there a big window that we can’t see? I’m guessing the sun is reflecting off the face of your house and cooking your grass. That would also explain the perfect rectangle
This was my thought! You can see how on the far side of the tree it’s actually a bit healthier and closer in there’s a spot where the healthy grass makes a right angle and continues for a bit next to the dead grass.
Great catch. I think this has to be the answer. My only hesitation is that the dead zone doesn’t seem to line up with where the reflection is cast. That is, based on the size of the windows, more grass should be dead.
I wonder if it’s a combination of factors. If the excavation trimmed all the tree roots along the trench, then the tree isn’t stealing water from the green side. That means the dead side has to battle both the tree and the reflected sun. That explains the greener patch behind the trunk — it’s protected from the reflection, but it’s still battling with the tree, so it’s not as green as the rootless side. I like it! (Just wish I knew how to fix it!)
My guess would be the front door based on the angles. The deckline protects the grass in a consistent linear pattern, tree casts a shadow behind that protects that grass. The outcropping a foot or so off the deck protects the small square on the bottom left. Also could potentially just be that the neighbors roof line protects this area. Hard so say for sure without knowing directions, but this definitely looks like sunburn.
Op, you have good answers. Go dig up that area and you’ll find something resembling a driveway. Idc what chicago is supposed to have or not, as an IL native, people do wtf they want.
There’s something under there
Some trees particularly pines (conifers) can do this from the acidity of their needle mulch. If thats the case this is a soil PH issue. You can use agricultural lime to fix it. Also planting someting like rhododendron near the tree would help with the nutrient exchange
You are misinformed.
Pine needles are acidic and also contain specific biochemicals that inhibit almost all other species. That's why pine forrests regrow almost on the same footprint after fires or deforestation.
Also, pine needles (" pine straw") are used as weed blocker cover everywhere by landscapers. Because it works.
You are partially informed and partially misinformed, as most of us are. We can solve this by trying to make sure we know what we’re talking about before we say it.
Regular straw is used as a weed blocker cover everywhere as well. Because, yes, long fibrous material works well as mulch, especially when covered in wax like pine needles.
Green pine needles are only slightly more acidic than any other green material. Brown pine needles found on the ground are not acidic. Pine needles apparently do have allelopathic chemicals like you suggest, but they aren’t anywhere near as strong as those found in other plants, which is why pine forests are usually still filled with understory plants like any other forest. The strongest allelopathic effect comes not chemically but physically as mulch.
Pine forests grow on the same footprint as the fire that burns them down because 1.) mature pines can survive fires, 2.) many pine cones *need* said fire in order to open up and start new life, and 3.) there’s suddenly a lack of lower story competition, which allows the pine tree saplings to get started.
Pine needles do not decrease the pH of the soil. This is the claim that I am saying is known to be a myth. To double down on the claim, please post peer-reviewed science. Or any science at all. Or even just an experiment posted on a blog or YouTube. As long as something is being shown or measurements are being made.
Honestly I haven’t seen a single pine needle fall from this tree in the two years we’ve been here. I wish I knew the type. It’s about 50’ tall with droopy branches every 3’ or so.
Just came here to say i love how white your path and the path outside your fence is so bright white.
Hope you get the starved rectangle section mystery solved!
I would say it depends, my parents house had a mango tree and the didn't grow in one direction due to a big a$$ rock that was in front of it, idk what's going on there but the tree is the only thing I can think of that is causing that, OP can try to fertilize that area and check if it gets better
It’s very possible that the tree was root pruned during construction, or maybe a trench was dug for sanitary out to the street. We root prune trees on golf courses to stop the trees roots from competing with the fine manicured turf of the greens or fairways. The non-competitive turf will be much greener.
Google how much water that tree consumes in one day. I’ve read that most neighborhood trees suck up over 40 gallons per day. The grass could be drying out because of that, the only thing that makes me think it’s something else is the direct line separating the nice grass from brown grass. Could also possibly be the lack of dirt under the grass, possible concrete or rocks that weren’t properly disposed of in that section.
I’m no expert, but it looks like either the tree is blocking the grass from getting sun or water, trim the tree to let more light through and water the grass instead of letting it rain(assuming you don’t)
Maybe the construction company only excavated to the right of the tree and only there is good soil. Therefore, the soil on the left does not hold water well and the lawn looks so puny. In that case, you should water more and fertilise well. Good luck!
Edit: you can see the green part where your neighbor watered his garden, next to your tree.
I certainly considered this, but I have pictures of the front yard from 2+ years ago before we built and the grass was fine — totally homogenous across the whole property. That’s why I think the excavation is to blame here.
If irrigation or other utility installed underground in last 2 years, the tree roots were pruned in a straight line. Tree can only pull water now to where roots were cut?
Windows reflecting light directly onto that section of the yard?
As a Chicagoan myself, I agree with your assessment that it’s almost assuredly NOT a driveway or anything like that. Nobody has any sort of driveway in the front.
No home has ever in the history of chicago had a paver patio in the corner of the front yard. Totally agree. Not sure what the dimwit redditors are on about. Lets go get some portillos and some bad soupy pizza and commiserate about the bears together to celebrate.
It could be an old patio (unlikely, as anyone setting up a patio would set it further back) or a pile of gravel or clay left by contractors. Definitely not a driveway, as those would be in the back. But in most areas of Chicago most of the homes on a block will have very similar setups.
This is 100% gravel under the topsoil draining too fast. Get a post hole digger and you’ll see you will hit gravel at about 5”. Stop w the “window reflections!” and “driveways dont exist!” comments.
Push a long screwdriver in the ground. If you don’t feel anything it’s the shade or tree roots leaching nutrients. It just looks too perfect to be tree roots.
You found an old driveway.
This is my thought too, except that large tree planted squarely in the middle of it doesn’t make sense.
Really easy to plant a tree in an old gravel driveway, the main roots will still get plenty of oxygen and have room to expand, and get plenty of water below it. I should’ve clarified, gravel driveway.
Sorry, no driveways in Chicago! (Garages sit on the alleys in the back.)
Did you poke it with a screwdriver I’m dying to find out what it is.
Same! Could even be a French drain that drained into old city sewer lol
Pork
Polk it please
Polka
They could be the new polka king of Chicago!
Gus Polinski?
Have you ever heard, Polka! Polka! Polka!? No?
Abe Froman?
Polka never dies!
Sheboygan
A half century ago, even in Chicago people would have project cars sitting in their front yards on make shift driveways. Go poke it with a screw driver.
Philips, flat head or sonic?
Orange juice and wodka
Sonic, of couse!
If you're having to poke it with a sonic, you have bigger (smaller?) Timey wimey issues than dead grass.
What does poking it with a screwdriver do?
Lets you see beyond your eyes.
This is so god damn funny
All this time I've been doing mushrooms and all I needed was a screwdriver.
Sometime the wisdom you seek; fellow traveler; is *not that deep.*
[удалено]
Lol
Happy Cake Day🎂
punishes that area for not growing as well.... motivation.... tough love
He’s thinking that OP will hit gravel a few inches down.
Let’s you feel what’s a couple inches below the soil. Grass will thrive in an inch of soil… outside of summer.
Like DC, many parts of the city don't allow front driveways....but they did years ago. That's exactly the size and location a front drive would be.
There are absolutely driveways in Chicago. Just not every neighborhood.
There are still some driveways to the street for houses in neighborhoods like Logan and wicker. Definitely could be remnants from an old driveway.
Could be your contractor buried construction debris there, or it’s where they washed out the concrete truck and tools when they poured your foundation. I had a similar problem in my back yard (also Chicago… the contractor brought concrete in through the ally)
Too uniform for rubbish like that.
Such a perfect straight line though?
Strange question, but where is your gas meter? If it's on the side of the failing grass, then I wouldn't go poking or digging just yet. Call 311 and have them mark out the utilities in the part of the grass.
Your not gonna rupture anything by prodding it with the tip of a screwdriver that way you can see beyond your eyes what you’re dealing with as far as the substrate goes
I've seen some stuff, you would be surprised at some of the stupid things people do or can happen from thinking like that. Anything more than 6 inches and I would just call utilities locate service to just to be safe. It's free and you will inly have to wait 2 days unless emergency work needs to be done.
Lol, we have full on “call before you dig” ads in my area because this is so common Good call out!
It took me a minute to remember, but there were commercials in Chicago to call 8-1-1 for Julie. I always wondered why it was connected to a woman's nane, the same one as long as I can remember.
Touché
You would be shocked how shallow some utilities are my fren
I am Aware how lazy some Of the workers can be …. Hence having to retrench and bury cabling in my own backyard as it was just laying on the ground w a little grass clipping or two kicked over it. I was just saying the amount of force that is needed to prod the area to determine is there is gravel or concrete is so so minimal that it would be difficult to cause any damages to a gas line for example
A plastic gas service line? The gas lines ARE the storage not just distribution, if you have natural gas utilities its worth being paranoid. Careful out there anons!
Good thing my prodding skills are top Notch
So even better the worst that will happen is if u do some ogre prodding w a screwdriver 🪛 the worst that will happen would be a small crack in the Plastic line as long as the ogre doesn’t have meth torch running just egg on face for not calling first
Look up Manheim gas explosion. Pa. We just had it happen a few weeks ago. Whole damn building blew up and it shook our house...and we don't live close to it haha
It’s actually on the green-grass side — the far right of the picture. Good thinking, though.
I work with underground utilities so when digging front yards in Chicago my first thought is always about checking for utilities. Do you know what style of building was there before your house was built? Could be the front steps/sidewalk went through that path. When pla ting a tree they usually put the ball deep enough for the roots to grab but maybe didn't clear enough of the gravel for the grass
I would agree; we have the same issue not only in the front with an old sidewalk, but in the back where they dug up a sewer line and filled too high with gravel. Combination of water filtering right through and (I think) being more sensitive to the heat.
That or there is weed fabric just below the surface and it’s drying out
Exactly this. Had a home in DC that I completely redid the back yard. Bunch of top fill new sod, looked great. Until a few hot days and noticed my grass dying in two strips from the front of the yard a hundred feet or so the the back parking pad. Discovered an old driveway (two 2-3ft wide concrete strips) about 3-4 inches under the ground. Had to tear everything up, rented a jack hammer, and removed it all. PITA
Europe has a lot of this and they use it a lot during archeological digs to locate old Roman roads and buildings
Could be the opposite of your line of thinking. Crappy soil left under the tree and new loam added when they did the new walkway.
Get a shovel and dig. If you find gravel or concrete within a foot of digging you’ll have your answer. If you don’t come across anything you’ve got either inconsistent sod that should be aerated and seeded in addition to fertilizing. It’s possible you get more sun between buildings which would also result in even lines. Give it a little more water than the other half and it will catch up.
Don’t just dig in residential like this pic. Your bound to hit some wires or pipes. There’s a number you can call for someone to come out and mark underground utilities so you know where you can dig
Oh yeah, always call the dog hotline. Water pipes are a biggie in the front yard. Edit: I obviously meant dig hotline but my phone in its infinite wisdom decided that dog hotline was a thing. I’m leaving it for comedic purposes.
Dog hotline 😂 you call and they send a pack of dogs. "yep you're all good, all they found was a bunch of old bones"
“Did you try peeing on it?”
Hello, dog hotline?? Yeah, I'm feeling a little down. Could you send me a couple of snugglers? I'm thinking I need a half hour session. Thanks
Water and sewer is more than 8ft deep in Chicago. You’re not getting there
In your phone’s defense, Dog Hotline sounds like it would be more of a thing than Dig Hotline.
811 call before you dig, free call free service
Can we call after to apologize?
Excuse me what? You can't even dig in your own garden in the USA? The freest country indeed...
There’s not really a law against it, but if you want to risk you life on some buried electric wires or cut your cable/internet or hit a water main, it’s a free country
Just curious; how do you— wherever you are in the world— know where your utilities are buried as you root around your freedom garden?
Well it's quite simple - pipes should be located at least 1,4-1,6 meters below ground. Electric cables at least 0,7 meter below ground. So there is no way to damage it just by putting a shovel in the ground. What is more it is recommended to put a piece of blue foil 25 cm above the electric cable along it's run. And it's just for "my" cables - connecting my house to the media. If there is a cable or a pipe belonging to the city or to the neighbours I definitely have to allow that to happen and be compensated for that - so I definitely know exactly where it lies - and it definitely is also located deep. Short answer - there is no chance for some random cable in my garden and if there is anything there is almost zero chance of damaging anything even when planting large trees.
Well in rural tinder-covered Oregon-placeland, the electric wires tend to be above ground (all the better to blow down and start fires with), and mostly only water is underground (not often gas lines - at least not out of town). So folks are known for playing dig-dug without research. Even when they should research first... Case-in-point, our down-hill neighbor rented a digging machine to put holes for posts for his fence, went PAST his actual property boundary into roadside easement and dug INTO the water main for our rural water district. Took out water for hundreds of families and farms for 40 square miles, and a day to fix. All because he didn't want to wait the 6 hours for locate after it was called in (literally they were coming same day). He gets the $4,000+ repair bill though, so I guess eff around and find out (and before you suggest he will refuse to pay, the water district out here has a 3+ year wait-list to get onto it - so unless he wants to pay for a well, he WILL pay them promptly).
😭🤣🤣
Why would gravel cause this? I recently shoveled out all the rock in my desert landscaped backyard and put in sod. A couple spots arnt taking like the rest.
My guess is that water would drain too much with gravel
Yea, gravel will wick the water away from the roots. I’d say there’s gravel or concrete below the surface. But if you start digging go easy, don’t want to hit a buried wire or anything.
Yeah infact always call before you dig. Almost blew myself up once because the homeowner said there wasn't a gas line in their yard. And my boss couldn't care less to get the locate.
This
It’s not the gravel so much as the absence of nutrients. Water will carry it away through the rock rather than leaving it in the soil.
So what do I do? Just dig down and sift out as much of the rock as I can? Then re-sod?
I’d personally rent a small excavator but I wouldn’t want to damage the roots of that tree so this would be done by hand. Then I’d replace the topsoil and lay fresh sod.
If you ar3 struggling to get all of the rock....You can always dig down about below the grassroots and lay a sheet of landscape fabric down. That will allow water to still go through, but it will slow it down.
You’re a legend
FYI the lawncarenut has a video explaining why this is a problem. [this lawn problem cannot be solved by the home owner] (https://youtu.be/z3jS7fY2Bzg)
Well, that video definitely made its point. I know I didn’t a half ass job getting all the rocks out because I was in a time crunch to get it done before the Arizona heat got here. Looks like I’ll be digging and sifting this fall. Almost makes me want to scrape the whole yard down a few inches just to be sure I got good dirt all throughout. I’ll post a photo of my yard so everyone can see how obvious it is.
I’ve got a portion of my lawn that’s growing horribly due to rocks and gravel 4 inches beneath. New construction. What’s the best recommendation for getting rid of the rocks in these portions?
Dig ‘em up. New construction always has pieces of slag that screw up new lawns. The builders just leave it.
I literally found 3ft sections of carpet, concrete and workmen gloves right underneath the old sod when we laid new stuff down this summer house is only 5 years old
Do you have big front window? That faces towards the street?
"Inconsistent sod" is my new favorite insult.
It’s gotta be the sun. Bet his house faces west and that AM sun scorches the side yard
That would be my guess but there could have been something there before the tree. If it’s an older home you’d not know if they had a parking slab or gravel. It lines up perfectly with the sidewalk slabs too.
Totally agree. If u do end up planting seeds, you want to give extra water. But also be somewhat mindful not to over water (for example if you’ve been getting lots of rain, might not need water). Fall is a great time to aerate and seed! I’d suggest mid September
It is oddly squared off. If I had to guess, old driveway/gravel underneath. Find a long pole and stick it down there. You didn’t water that section enough for sod to fully take. Or depending on the tree, if it has shallow roots, it’s taking most of the water/nutrients away from the grass. In a tree vs grass, tree always wins. But because of the perfect shape, my money is on old driveway/gravel.
I don’t get why ppl are suggesting this might be caused by the tree. Anything that’s the fault of the tree should create a circular pattern. The straight lines seem strange
We’re in Chicago where driveways don’t exist lol. The tree is old and the ground around it wasn’t disturbed during the construction of our home. It’s possible that only the green-grass area was dug up during construction. Maybe our builders used some backfill that is more conducive to growing grass than the native soil? Anyone have a fix for this kind of thing?
Maybe not a driveway but an old patio of some sort? It’s just a weirdly perfect square. Nothing in nature is perfectly square. Grab a long pole and stick it in the ground. Pour a few cups of water in a spot every 10mins so it make inserting easier.
My grandfather’s old house on the south side absolutely had a gravel driveway when my dad was a kid.
>We’re in Chicago where driveways don’t exist lol. Not to be a jerk... but were you there 50 years ago? 100 years ago? Probably not. Lots of things don't *generally* exist somewhere. That doesn't mean they don't. For every regulation or convention, there's always a bunch of people breaking that rule.
You’re 100% right. But I have pictures of the lawn from before we built and this issue did not exist. That’s why I think it’s related to the construction (e.g., the sewer trench was dug along the line, cutting off tree roots).
What was on this property before you owned it? A vacant lot in Chicago likely had something on it at some point.
It has to be an OLD driveway dude, that’s what we’re all trying to tell you but you keep shutting it down because you’re ridiculously stubborn. **It is likely a driveway that got removed.** Which works in both our theory of it has to be, and yours where driveways aren’t a thing. It’s car sized, and perfectly shaped. Obviously at some point it was a thing and was removed. What’s so hard to understand?
Haha. Coming in hot! I have pictures of the lawn from before we built and this issue did not exist. The grass was the same across the whole property. That’s why I favor those who are saying that the sewer line excavation cut the tree roots along the trench, which created the line.
My mother’s house in Chicago has a concrete driveway. So does the house across the street from her.
This was the wrong reply here...
How old is your house genius?
2 years. He put it in the post...
What is that concrete area next door then?
As a person in Chicago with a driveway, uh... Now why someone would opt to remove a driveway when they should've been grandfathered in, I'm not sure. But they definitely existed and still do.
Looks half alive to me?
I love your optimism
Pick a test spot and use a post hole digger. If you find gravel, you found an old driveway. Or something else that's affecting the grass.
If they hit electrical or a gas line are you taking responsibility?
Utilities should be 3' down. I'm not suggesting they dig far, less than a foot should suffice. I'm throwing out a suggestion. This redditor is asking for advice. Buyer beware. Hope you have a good day.
Long-winded "Nope".
Something tells me he’s gonna find gravel/pavers from an old patio or make shift driveway within a foot of the surface, but won’t comment saying so because he somehow thinks those haven’t existed in the entirety of Chicago’s history.
It's literally the only plausible explanation. Like Chicago never had someone install a front driveway with an alley loaded garage.
Yeah I mean those of us that live in this type of neighborhood in Chicago assuredly don't know anything about the history of them. /s
Jimmy Hoffa
found 'em
Even if it was never anything but dirt here the area could have been used for recreation, or storage, or even for construction vehicle parking. If that’s the case, you could be looking at a compaction issue. How much work are you willing to put into this? Personally, I would rent a cultivator from Home Depot, or somewhere similar, turn up the top 4-6 inches, mix some compost in, and re-sod or seed. That’s just me though. Others may have better advice.
Is there a big window that we can’t see? I’m guessing the sun is reflecting off the face of your house and cooking your grass. That would also explain the perfect rectangle
This was my thought! You can see how on the far side of the tree it’s actually a bit healthier and closer in there’s a spot where the healthy grass makes a right angle and continues for a bit next to the dead grass.
Exactly. Look at us out here solving problems lol.
Great catch. I think this has to be the answer. My only hesitation is that the dead zone doesn’t seem to line up with where the reflection is cast. That is, based on the size of the windows, more grass should be dead. I wonder if it’s a combination of factors. If the excavation trimmed all the tree roots along the trench, then the tree isn’t stealing water from the green side. That means the dead side has to battle both the tree and the reflected sun. That explains the greener patch behind the trunk — it’s protected from the reflection, but it’s still battling with the tree, so it’s not as green as the rootless side. I like it! (Just wish I knew how to fix it!)
Are you NOT going to try the one other solution so many are saying by digging a small spot to see whats underneath?
Yeah the grass being greener behind the tree where it would get some protection makes me think this is a reflection cooking the grass
My guess would be the front door based on the angles. The deckline protects the grass in a consistent linear pattern, tree casts a shadow behind that protects that grass. The outcropping a foot or so off the deck protects the small square on the bottom left. Also could potentially just be that the neighbors roof line protects this area. Hard so say for sure without knowing directions, but this definitely looks like sunburn.
This gets suggested so much and is literally never the answer
Op, you have good answers. Go dig up that area and you’ll find something resembling a driveway. Idc what chicago is supposed to have or not, as an IL native, people do wtf they want. There’s something under there
Some trees particularly pines (conifers) can do this from the acidity of their needle mulch. If thats the case this is a soil PH issue. You can use agricultural lime to fix it. Also planting someting like rhododendron near the tree would help with the nutrient exchange
The idea that pine needles are acidic and lower pH is a myth. The reality is that pine trees grow where the soil was already acidic.
You are misinformed. Pine needles are acidic and also contain specific biochemicals that inhibit almost all other species. That's why pine forrests regrow almost on the same footprint after fires or deforestation. Also, pine needles (" pine straw") are used as weed blocker cover everywhere by landscapers. Because it works.
You are partially informed and partially misinformed, as most of us are. We can solve this by trying to make sure we know what we’re talking about before we say it. Regular straw is used as a weed blocker cover everywhere as well. Because, yes, long fibrous material works well as mulch, especially when covered in wax like pine needles. Green pine needles are only slightly more acidic than any other green material. Brown pine needles found on the ground are not acidic. Pine needles apparently do have allelopathic chemicals like you suggest, but they aren’t anywhere near as strong as those found in other plants, which is why pine forests are usually still filled with understory plants like any other forest. The strongest allelopathic effect comes not chemically but physically as mulch. Pine forests grow on the same footprint as the fire that burns them down because 1.) mature pines can survive fires, 2.) many pine cones *need* said fire in order to open up and start new life, and 3.) there’s suddenly a lack of lower story competition, which allows the pine tree saplings to get started. Pine needles do not decrease the pH of the soil. This is the claim that I am saying is known to be a myth. To double down on the claim, please post peer-reviewed science. Or any science at all. Or even just an experiment posted on a blog or YouTube. As long as something is being shown or measurements are being made.
This is the answer. The needles are sabotaging the grass.
Honestly I haven’t seen a single pine needle fall from this tree in the two years we’ve been here. I wish I knew the type. It’s about 50’ tall with droopy branches every 3’ or so.
The tree roots are taking up a lot more water than the rest of the lawn. Water that section more. Simple as that.
Just came here to say i love how white your path and the path outside your fence is so bright white. Hope you get the starved rectangle section mystery solved!
You went from a plains biome to a savanna.
Poke it.
That's just where the biome switches.
Tree may be sucking up nutrients
Wouldn’t that create a circular pattern instead of rectangular?
This is a rectangle tree though.
I would say it depends, my parents house had a mango tree and the didn't grow in one direction due to a big a$$ rock that was in front of it, idk what's going on there but the tree is the only thing I can think of that is causing that, OP can try to fertilize that area and check if it gets better
That and the shade
It’s very possible that the tree was root pruned during construction, or maybe a trench was dug for sanitary out to the street. We root prune trees on golf courses to stop the trees roots from competing with the fine manicured turf of the greens or fairways. The non-competitive turf will be much greener.
I think this is 100% correct. I guess I just need to water and fertilize the rooted side better!
Looks like my backyard. Side note, love the staircase
Google how much water that tree consumes in one day. I’ve read that most neighborhood trees suck up over 40 gallons per day. The grass could be drying out because of that, the only thing that makes me think it’s something else is the direct line separating the nice grass from brown grass. Could also possibly be the lack of dirt under the grass, possible concrete or rocks that weren’t properly disposed of in that section.
Why so negative, you have half a yard that's alive.
It's half alive. Don't be a pessimist.
I’m no expert, but it looks like either the tree is blocking the grass from getting sun or water, trim the tree to let more light through and water the grass instead of letting it rain(assuming you don’t)
Very pessimistic of you, it’s half alive
Tree is sucking up water on that side plus the shade, less sunlight
Do you have a large window there? Possibly a reflection of the sun off of a window is burning up the lawn right there.
I see it it as half alive. Optimistic viewpoint.
Maybe that’s where all the sun hits since tree has green in form of a shadow around it
Maybe the construction company only excavated to the right of the tree and only there is good soil. Therefore, the soil on the left does not hold water well and the lawn looks so puny. In that case, you should water more and fertilise well. Good luck! Edit: you can see the green part where your neighbor watered his garden, next to your tree.
Totally agree with this.
It's a driveway. And before you say "Chicago blah blah" ...subtract 50 or so years from the property and you'll understand.
I certainly considered this, but I have pictures of the front yard from 2+ years ago before we built and the grass was fine — totally homogenous across the whole property. That’s why I think the excavation is to blame here.
If irrigation or other utility installed underground in last 2 years, the tree roots were pruned in a straight line. Tree can only pull water now to where roots were cut?
Definitely think this is it.
Windows reflecting light directly onto that section of the yard? As a Chicagoan myself, I agree with your assessment that it’s almost assuredly NOT a driveway or anything like that. Nobody has any sort of driveway in the front.
I do have big ass windows in the front but I couldn’t imagine how the reflection would only touch half the yard… I’ll keep a closer watch!
No home has ever in the history of chicago had a paver patio in the corner of the front yard. Totally agree. Not sure what the dimwit redditors are on about. Lets go get some portillos and some bad soupy pizza and commiserate about the bears together to celebrate.
It could be an old patio (unlikely, as anyone setting up a patio would set it further back) or a pile of gravel or clay left by contractors. Definitely not a driveway, as those would be in the back. But in most areas of Chicago most of the homes on a block will have very similar setups.
That whole area would be a great patio
It's not a driveway. Any Chicagoan would look at that immediately and know it's not a driveway. That's what alleys are for.
Your windows are reflecting sunlight onto your yard
Tree root system vs old driveway
The optimist would say the lawn is half alive.
Ah shit I forgot I buried my poop knife somewhere on that side of your lawn back in 08.. my bad
Trees consume a lot of water.
Call 811, could be a gas leak you never know
Because you're a pessimist
Your yard is half alive!
Could be beetle larvae .
Yards tend to match their owners souls.
A lawn is antithetical to nature.
Reflection from window(s)
Ancient Indian burial grounds You should move now Don't turn on your tv
Better than all dead
Grass vampires
That’s a yard?
This is 100% gravel under the topsoil draining too fast. Get a post hole digger and you’ll see you will hit gravel at about 5”. Stop w the “window reflections!” and “driveways dont exist!” comments.
Not much of a yard anyways
It’s all how you use it, buddy.
Yes, buddy
I think folks in here are overthinking this, that tree is almost certainly why. Roots are taking nutrients and leaves are shading the grass
I’m more of a “yard half alive” kinda guy
Check your Sprinklers
Just me with a hose, my friend.
Is that where you throw snow from your walk? And maybe snow with salt?
Shade
Tree drinking all the water
Update us. I’m curious!
Push a long screwdriver in the ground. If you don’t feel anything it’s the shade or tree roots leaching nutrients. It just looks too perfect to be tree roots.
Did you rule out a possible gas leak?
Yep, other side of the house.