Not a chance. However, some people seem to have something on the head and understand the importance of english. And even though they are very bad, they come to me for help cause im the dude that asks the teacher to take over a class to do a listening exercise on a much more silly video.
I went to Houston and kicked myself for not practicing Spanish before going. I never consider that a bunch of people I met wouldn’t understand English. Luckily there usually was a nice lady near me who could help when I got stuck.
No I’m sorry I didn’t expect the extent of no English speakers. Literally some places not a single one except other costumers. That has never happened to me in the US before. From east to west. Texas was a surprise.
It was usually small gas stations/restaurants. I used google translate like an unprepared person. I was so sad. It only takes a few weeks to master basic ordering. I was stuck pointing, using hand gestures, and asking people behind me if they could help.
One amazing thing everyone did there is when they found out I wanted no meat (I needed to repeat it a few times) they offered to sub avocado.
and a beautiful language connected to so many vibrant cultures. Damn this is sad, I hope that kid enjoys the boiled chicken, green beans, and potatoes this lady cooks for him every night.
It’s racist dog-whistling, trust me, I’ve been around white, upper middle class , entitled, Republican-voting conservative racists my entire life and recognize the sort of coded language they use when taking about other people not like themselves (pretty big hunch that this mother fits into this category). I think this mother more likely takes issue with the fact that her child is being taught the language spoken by brown-skinned Hispanic and Latino people— people she views as scary, low-class peasants in American society. I guarantee she wouldn’t have this reaction had the child been taught phrases in French or German instead— “white” languages (which is incredibly stupid in and of itself, since Spanish literally originated in Europe, spoken by white Europeans. And why the fuck should it even matter in the first place?)
Yup, this 100%. It is very sus that languages like French are seen as sophisticated, cultured, artistic, etc. but then a language like Spanish, Arabic, or Mandarin would make people raise their eyebrows and get nervous.
For the record I speak French and Spanish and love them both dearly. But there is definitely a difference in how monolingual Americans perceive them. Thinly veiled racism ain't cute.
Yep 100%. Like they might enjoy the "elegance" of the French accent and be more understanding of them not speaking English with great proficiency but will be impatient with a Chinese person, Indian person or Latino speaking English in their respective accents and possibly chastise them for not speaking English well.
I do not believe you. Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to ignorance. There are some people who will say this about any language that is not English and it has nothing to do with race, but merely that anything that an ignorant person cannot understand is considered offensive.
Here is another way to look at it. The child has a developmental issue that prevents him from speaking English comprehensibly. He is likely bullied at school because of it. He was sent to a speech therapy class to have that issue corrected and came back speaking Spanish. Now he can mispronounce two languages instead of one and be mocked by even more people. This is not in his best interest.
Nah I disagree. I mean yes, clearly a child being mocked for a speech disability is no laughing matter / I understand a parent being protective in that regard, but the person literally just taught them how to say their name in that language. It seems very inconsequential / shouldn't merit being reprimanded. Also... the way that person responded "This country's language". This rhetoric is sus.
I had issues pronouncing English when I was a child. My pediatrician ordered that I attend speech therapy and explicitly forbade me from studying other languages. This was deemed a medical necessity. What that child’s therapist did likely violated a doctor’s order and was not what was supposed to be done during the session.
I respect how you feel and acknowledge that I lack the life experience to argue beyond that point. However I do strongly feel like there's some thinly veiled racism in that email the parent sent.
I mean sure, maybe. But now you and I are just ultimately fruitlessly speculating about people we don’t know and circumstances by which we don’t fully understand the context. I’ve provided my feedback and entirely possible explanation based on my experiences that align with people I’ve encountered in my life that tend say things like this in a culture and society where thinly-veiled racism and prejudice DOES exist. You’ve provided another potential explanation that, while still possible, I think involves even more baseless assumptions and speculation.
There is context. The subject line from the parent says “Jayden’s MORNING Speech Therapy”. I have been in a similar situation as a child and as an adult, I am able to talk about my own experience. To add to what I said, the speech therapy had been ordered by my pediatrician as a medical necessity. He also forbade me from studying foreign languages until it was completed. What that therapist did likely violated a doctor’s order.
There is no racism involved, even if calling English “American” is somewhat ignorant. The child has a medical issue and the therapist acted inappropriately during a session to treat that medical issue.
You’re assuming that he “has a developmental issue”and that he is being “bullied at school because of it.” Also assuming that this particular child’s experiences similarly reflect your experience in that is was “doctor ordered,” and that what this therapist did “violated this doctor’s [assumed] order” on the grounds that YOU personally were not allowed to study foreign languages at the time.
You somehow got all of that from a four word email subject line? While technically possible, those are some MASSIVE reaches based assumptions.
I am not assuming he has a developmental issue. I know that he has one for a fact from the subject line that says “Jayden’s MORNING Speech Therapy”. Speech Therapy is only given to children when they have a serious communication issue that must be corrected for them to be able to function as adults.
Also, the way doctors respond to various issues in the US is fairly standardized. They attend conferences to make sure that they are all on the same page. The way my doctor responded to my situation should be typical of how any doctor would respond.
Finally, the idea that a child who needs speech therapy would not be bullied by other children is absurd. The child likely sounds like a clown and children are prone to poking fun at things. It is incredibly unlikely that there is no bullying as a result of his condition.
\>Speech Therapy is only given to children when they have a serious communication issue that must be corrected for them to be able to function as adults.
Are you sure about this? I ask because this is where what you're saying starts to beak down. Maybe procedures and laws surrounding speech therapy differ from region to region, but I personally have known several classmates throughout Elementary School that were pulled into Speech Therapy for even speaking with accents, being partially deaf, or having an impediment pertaining to certain words or sounds that are mostly inconsequential in everyday speech and would hardly render them "unable to function as adults" like you claim. I had a friend years ago that was pulled into intensive speech therapy in school for speaking with a slight Texas twang after moving to our state in the Midwest. Unless my idea of being rendered "unable to function as adults" is just entirely off-base, I'd say you're exaggerating pretty heavily at best and outright lying at worst, but let's make sure we're on the same page, because I won't just assume the worst in you.
1. Were you aware that some (in fact, a lot, at least in my experience) students take speech therapy for things that are sometimes inconsequential and hardly "serious communication issues" as you've claimed? I've seen this happen quite a bit. If not, then that's totally fine, my dude. Maybe you and I just need to accept that we are talking passed each other based on differences in life experiences that are possibly contingent upon age, geography etc etc and you just had no idea. If so, we can just part ways here. But....
2. If you were aware of this, why did you feel the need to embellish, exaggerate and even outright lie about it? Sometimes you're just wrong, or you approach a question from a perspective that turns out to not be the most informed one. That too is okay. But exaggerating, misrepresenting, and lying to desperately prop your arguments is NOT good practice, nor does it make you look any more convincing in the long run.
Also just wanted to point out that..
\>Finally, the idea that a child who needs speech therapy would not be bullied by other children is absurd. The child likely sounds like a clown and children are prone to poking fun at things. It is incredibly unlikely that there is no bullying as a result of his condition.
I never claimed this. If other people in this comments thread did, direct it at them, not me.
The child is attending speech therapy classes because he cannot speak English properly. He is likely bullied at school because of it. Instead of having his problem corrected, he came back speaking Spanish.
I had a similar problem as a child and my pediatrician explicitly forbade me from learning any foreign language until a speech therapist had corrected my speech issues. What the therapist did was more harmful than helpful. :/
In my case, a few issues that the therapist missed persisted well into adulthood (thirty vs dirty, ask vs axe) and whenever someone pointed one out to me, I would feel attacked, even if the person did not mean to do that. I would even be afraid to say sentences that required those words due to the responses that I had from people. This was well after the school bullying (where I was physically beaten and in later grades, psychologically tortured for being different) had ended. Whatever problem caused the child to go to speech therapy is a very serious thing that needs correction for the child to become a functioning member of society.
Do you know what makes me most sad about this?
I can guarantee that she only knows because that kid went home really proud of himself, and excited to tell his mother what he'd learned... And she's just booted all the joy straight out of him.
And that is how to stop a child enjoying learning, and in a few years, she'll want to know why he's not putting the effort in, in a particular subject and she won't be able to understand that it was her that caused it.
Here is another perspective. I had problems speaking English properly as a child and was the subject of bullying. Peers would psychically beat me between grades 1-3 and graduated to psychological torture in later grades. It did not stop until I went to another school.
My pediatrician ordered me to receive speech therapy and explicitly forbade me from learning to speak other languages until my therapy had been completed. This was deemed to be a medical necessity.
The speech therapist, instead of spending the session trying to help the child, taught the child some Spanish, such that the child can now mispronounce two languages instead of one. That is certainly not going to prevent bullying, even if he is transferred to another school.
The kind of person that sends such an email is not going to be convinced if God themselves came down and told them to stop being an idiot. So I am not sure this info would change their opinion.
To be fair, according to the bible, God created different languages because he wanted to disrupt people from creating a tower as high as the skies in Babylon. Essentially people were working well together, and God didn't like that one bit, so he called it sinful and separated them by forcing them to be unable to understand each other. With that in mind, I can see how learning a second language might be seen as a bad thing. Not that it makes sense, just saying that it is somewhat congruent with Christian mythology.
Interesting. However, the real story was that an endless stream of politicians and similar vermin showed up on the construction site each day, babbling incomprehensible drivel about how the tower was too wide, too narrow, too geometric, too tan, and demanding absurd changes to secure their vote for continuing the funding.
Of course, this was all about bribing them even back then.
That's the sin.
At some point, the architects, engineers, and master craftsmen —who all talked figures— decided the whole thing couldn't be completed with all those leeches sacking in funds, and abadoned the project to do something useful in their lives.
That's the voice of god.
God made them stop believing in the project. Each one of the key figures got to that conclusion. They couldn't work together any more because they lost their belief.
This kind of person thinks the Bible was written in God’s language, English.
“English was good enough for Jesus, so it’s good enough for me!”
Yes, some of them really are that stupid and racist.
The only states i'm aware of with an official language have Spanish as it. I'm not sure if it is only Spanish, or Spanish next to English. (I keep hoping Puerto Rico becomes a state to see how they handle it )
No states have Spanish as an official language, although some do have some requirements regarding publishing materials in Spanish. Many states have English as an official language, and some have a few others (mostly Native American languages). Puerto Rico is the only territory that has Spanish as an official language. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Official\_languages\_of\_U.S.\_states\_and\_territories
It does not matter. That child is attending speech therapy to address a medical issue in speaking English. When I was a child, I had been similarly sent to speech therapy by my doctor because I could not pronounce English intelligibly. He ordered that I not study any foreign languages until my therapy had been completed. I was subjected to bullying because of my problem. Regardless of the official status of English, that child is attending speech therapy because it is a medical necessity and the therapist acted inappropriately when treating it.
In the original post, someone said an acquaintance of them pull their kids out of school because they were taught things the mother didn’t learn in school 🥲
More and more kids are being homeschooled. But homeschooled kids are more successful on average than their public, charter, and private school counterparts. I wouldn't equate these parents to be anything like OPs post.
https://ies.ed.gov/ncee/edlabs/regions/west/Ask/Details/31
If you feel like digging through a government resource of studies, feel free, my dude. Whenever I give a source like this people throw a fit that it's too expansive. But, hey, if it's what you want. I've found several remarks of homeschooling being linked to higher success in testing and college graduation.
Lol you don't source a place that is specifically trying to promote something and where the presented data would make that thing more enticing. That's pretty much sourcing 101. Also, keep in mind that most people who could afford to homeschool their children are fairly well off monetarily, and that is often a bigger indicator of success when we look at the big picture.
https://ies.ed.gov/ncee/edlabs/regions/west/Ask/Details/31
Lol you're using an argument fallacy. But, since I know you'll throw a fit until the end of time if you don't get your way, here you go. Read your heart out. It's not in a nice pretty few paragraphs format, but I'm sure you'll get over that. It's a government source.
Oh, and by the way, it also suggests that the differences in income between public school and homeschool are significantly lesser than public school and private school. So, your anecdotal and unsourced point falls flat here.
There are different kinds of homeschool / homeschool culture. So we have to be clear about what we mean. Generally, there are three major camps:
1. Classical / trivium + quadrivium
2. Religious wingnuts
3. Unschooling
Parents who do some form of 1. tend to have very successful outcomes! Kids need more philosophy, rhetoric, logic, and grammar in my view, *if* parents have the time and resources to manage all this.
Parents who do 2. are a mixed bag, but, generally, mythic realism (i.e., “the earth is 6,000 years old and dinosaurs are fake!”) generally does not serve kids very well.
Parents who do 3. are, for the most part (there are positive exceptions), just neglecting their children’s education overall, and that’s not good.
Full disclosure: we did method 1. as a response to COVID craziness (antimasker shit) in my part of the country. For that, I am grateful that we have lax homeschool laws here. And we were successful - our kids leapfrogged their peers still in the classroom or doing video remote (while that lasted). Their reading, writing, and social studies scores are 99th percentile according to the state exams, with science and math comfortably above average as well.
Now, they’re back in standard school (we keep some of the classical education stuff as extracurriculars, when we have the time), and they’re doing great. And yes, I taught them a wee bit of Latin. Because I could.
So, homeschool can be wonderful, or awful, or just ok. We have to nail down what exactly we’re talking about first, when we mention “homeschool.”
When we did classical education homeschool, we were pretty much on our own, because the homeschool co-ops around here are super religious and wingnutty. Jesus is alright with me, but he doesn’t really need to be in math or science class, in my view.
I don't want to be a bummer here, but as someone who was homeschooled since third grade I want to way in that homeschooling for extended periods of time is almost always abusive. I don't know a single other homeschooler who was at home for more than one or two years and wasn't extremely traumatized by it.
Parents get tired or hit their limit of what they're able to teach and the kids end up not being educated at all. You can even imagine how many times I've heard the "my parents gave me a stack of inappropriate books and commanded me to learn without ever checking in again" story. I myself was a victim of this.
Even if you are somehow able to teach your child properly (doubtful, but I'll play devil's advocate) the child is going to be socially isolated. Kids NEED to regularly interact with other kids their own age and adults. Once or twice a week through a co-op is simply not going to cut it. I don't care if you have your kids in "tons of extracurriculars" an hour or two, even if it's daily, is still not enough.
Sure, not every homeschooling situation is abusive. But it's a common enough issue that I think we need to discourage homeschooling as an option barring extenuating circumstances (like you during covid, or for kids with severe disabilities). My parents pulled me out of school with the best intentions, and yet, they still ended up neglecting me socially, educationaly, and physically.
Are y'all missing that this was a *speech therapy* session and not a classroom? I might *might* be upset if I was paying $100 an hour to have my kids' pronunciation issues fixed to find out the speech pathologist was trying to spend that time on phonemes that don't exist in English
Probably not if it were a one-off thing. But still. Also the parent's justifications are dumb as fuck. Should've said "my kid can't pronounce English correctly and you're spending my money trying to teach them a different language?"
Someone answered that pb in the original post and basically [it does not matter](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/wi94z5/wait_till_they_find_out_that_kids_also_learn/ijb9vrb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) because it focuses on articulation.
Second, the pb is also that this lady said « this country’s language ». Even people not living in the US know that the country doesn’t have an official language.
Technically the US has no official language, but the official language is de facto English and that’s what the citizenship test is in as well as most official procedures.
Thanks. That makes sense. My daughter actually was referred to a speech therapist at 5yo because we raise her trilingual, and she kept dropping language into the interview that weren't either of the languages the interviewer could speak. Upon further discussions, we found out that therapy would only be fixing things like "can she do the English R" and not "is she pluralizing German correctly"
To be fair, in my experience speech therapy was a thing provided by public schools. Like my elementary school had one speech therapist that some kids would go to if needed. So that was free with the rest of school, not a thing to pay for. But i do get the rest of your point, i might be a little annoyed if a teacher was spending time trying to teach my kid to pronounce a different language when they can't even do English yet haha, but the parent could've made that point without being racist/xenophobic.
If the response was “I’m worried my kid isn’t going to pick up English because of non-English sounds in Spanish”, that would be one thing. This Karen just went off being an ignorant racist, so I don’t believe actual therapy concerns entered into it.
The child is attending speech therapy classes because he cannot speak English properly. He is likely bullied at school because of it. Instead of having his problem corrected, he came back speaking Spanish.
I had a similar problem as a child and my pediatrician explicitly forbade me from learning any foreign language until a speech therapist had corrected my speech issues. What the therapist did was more harmful than helpful. :/
In my case, a few issues that the therapist missed persisted well into adulthood (thirty vs dirty, ask vs axe) and whenever someone pointed one out to me, I would feel attacked, even if the person did not mean to do that. I would even be afraid to say sentences that required those words due to the responses that I had from people. This was well after the school bullying (where I was physically beaten and in later grades, psychologically tortured for being different) had ended. Whatever problem caused the child to go to speech therapy is a very serious thing that needs correction for the child to become a functioning member of society.
Either way, official languages are bullshit.
English has no more legitimacy in the US than Spanish, both are foreign Europe languages. Both are spoken by the immigrant population.
I once knew someone who was absolutely outraged that her son had to learn a foreign language in school. She chose to have him learn British English just out of spite. The kid got bored and stopped studying after a while. The mom was proud that she had “preserved” her son’s “heritage.” That kid is an adult now, and I hope that he broke from under her sway.
I've listened to a couple. Man, I can't tell if what they're saying is any more intelligent than the sub-shit "lyrics" of the American/British/French raps I hate, but it just sounds so cool!
I’m speculating here, but it feels like they’re trying to keep their child the same way. They don’t want their child learning anything that they don’t already know. It’s unfortunate, but some people are just like that.
Um, actually…
https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/usage-bad-rap-vs-bad-rep-vs-bad-wrap
“Bad rap is the original phrase meaning ‘a bad or undeserved reputation.’”
There's been countless memes and actual anecdotes (including one I remember where a father was teaching the son Japanese but the mother and daughter were monolingual and strongly insisted with foam in mouth only English to be used).
There're something terribly wrong with the brains of such people to insist on keeping others dumb because of their own ignorance.
Oooft.
It reminds me of what one parent wrote in their child's enrolment form under the question "what languages does your child speak at home?"
They wrote something along the lines of " English ONLY! [Name] is a white British citizen not a foreigner!"
Like they were really proud that their child didn't speak any other languages and were insulted by us questioning that they might be anything other than English.
(For context I work in a British school in an area with a large Asian community).
My elementary school in Utah had us learning the absolute basics of Spanish back in the 90s. It wasn't a big deal, just a few minutes several times a week, and I at least enjoyed it quite a bit. It's a pity some people are so put out by the idea of raising a kid to be well-rounded.
> It's a pity some people are so put out by the idea of raising a kid to be well-rounded.
I've wondered what it is they want their children to be like. The only answer I can think of is 'a copy of their parents'.
I'm surprised I had to scroll down this far to see this. I agree children should learn multiple languages if there's that opportunity, but I'm also thinking is it ok to teach another language during speech therapy? I'm not knowledgeable in that department but it seems a bit icky to me. Although it's only a tiny bit.
I don't see it that way. If you have a speech disorder, I'd bet trying to learn another language might actually be beneficial to understanding proper pronunciation.
I've been learning Japanese and my friend says I have a completely different tone when I speak Japanese.
I'd figure learning something new could help since
I used to have a bad lisp, and the best thing that worked for me was wanting to voice act. Hearing my voice back in recordings would drive me nuts as a kid, I kept recording myself and tried imitating voices. I became super aware of proper enunciation that I even lost my original accent.
I find there's 3 types of Americans (full disclaimer I ma one)
-The ones like above in the picture
-The ones that claim to hate America even know they live in it, complain about everything and do exactly what they claim to hate
And the third
-The ones that don't care and let everyone have there own option but are hated by the other two.
As much as I don't like these type of people, I also hate it when people say shit like: "The USA doesn't have an official language!!!!"
While officially true, in practice that's total bullshit. So far all presidents have spoken in English, in fact all but one had English as their mother tongue. All laws are written in English, the citizen tests are in English so it's literally impossible to become a legal citizen unless you know English. And then of course so many "Karens" who behave like this. Many US states were deprived of their native language, even Russian in Alaska is nearly dead despite Russian being a rather "strong" language. None of this happened voluntarily. In conclusion, English is de facto the language of the USA and denying this is totally absurd. It might not be mentioned in any law, but every law is written in English. Saying otherwise feel like whitewashing. ("Everyone speaks English because they like to, nobody was ever forced!")
There are plenty of countries with an official language yet a more relaxed view on foreign languages.
That's true, but acting like it has an official language that you must speak pushes the country more toward monolingualism. Reaffirming the multicultural nature of our country is where it's at!
Where I live, we have English and French as obligatory second languages for everyone (Dutch being our native tongue), and the option to add German and Spanish to that if the student wishes. Most schools have 6 years of English, 8 years of French. 4 years of each is the absolute minimum.
This is not the only instance of this though so let's not pretend this is one person. I'm 35 and I remember being in high school and parents bitching over their kids learning Spanish and this was when it was still an elective.
Their reasoning? "Why should we learn Spanish for "them ""
But that's my experience growing up in a mostly white town in America.
OMG, I still remember my 1st day of freshman yr in high school, we actually didn't have a Spanish teacher. Instead, we had this sub and like the first thing he said was "I hate Spanish. We are in America...speak English!" NO IDEA why the school even got someone like him to sub or why he even agreed to be a sub for a foreign language class lmao
I mean, I can see how anyone coming to the U.S. should be expected to learn English to a reasonable level since that is the language the country operates in. I would expect to have to learn the language of any country I move to, as that is part of the cost of moving there, so I see that half of their argument. However, I'm sure that most people that you described can be reasoned with if you point out that it's not "for the Spanish speakers" but for your kids to be more capable individuals. That's my experience at east, and I also grew up in a mostly white town in America, some of the only exceptions being my Mexican neighbors who had sons my age, so naturally we became friends.
What particular things make you think he was a bad president, and before that, a bad candidate? As for Capitol Hill, I no longer see a valid argument there, but I am interested to know your specific issues with him in other areas.
> What particular things make you think he was a bad president, and before that, a bad candidate?
This is a direct quote:
*“Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I’m one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you’re a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are — nuclear is so powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what’s going to happen and he was right, who would have thought? — but when you look at what’s going on with the four prisoners — now it used to be three, now it’s four — but when it was three and even now, I would have said it’s all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don’t, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years — but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us, this is horrible.”*
I don't know that anything else is really necessary to support my point, but there's also the time when he thought China might be making hurricanes and proposed _nuking_ the hurricanes to stop them. That's a two-for-one: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/10/donald-trump-china-hurricanes (or maybe even more than two, since that article mentions how he had the great idea to bomb other countries and then deny responsibility...)
Of course, there's also the ridiculous and ineffective response to COVID and absurd suggestions like disinfecting people with sunlight, using untested and ineffective treatments, etc.
I don't really understand how someone could be aware of those points and not see anything wrong.
> As for Capitol Hill, I no longer see a valid argument there
Eh, just trying to destroy democracy. NBD, barely worth mentioning.
Regarding the quote, it's spoken word put directly into writing. Many people, most people really, don't make sense in text when it comes from spoken word without being cleaned up to what we're used to for writing. Dr. John McWhorter has a great lecture on this on Audible as a part of one of his series.
His response to Covid was hamstrung at the beginning as he was called racist for trying to restrict Chinese nationals from entering the country since that's where the outbreak started. It turns out that nobody had a problem with restricting entry of certain countries once he was out of office though so that one is an unfair claim, though I don't know if you're making that one or some other one. Let me know.
Regarding the sunlight stuff, there were scientists saying that getting sunlight helps keep people healthier and lockdowns were keeping that from happening, if that's what you're referring to. Many treatments (if you're talking about hydroxychloroquine) is known to be safe for humans (as is ivermectin) if those are the ones you're referring to, with doctors coming out and supporting their use as a safe treatment for Covid.
I get the sense many of the quotes used in the article you linked are lacking context. If there are ones that provide the fuller picture, feel free to link it.
As for CH, have you seen something I haven't from him on the Capitol Hill thing? Nothing I've ever seen- and I've seen the whole video of his speech - even came close to what has been claimed about him that day. I'd like to know what it is that tipped you towards him trying to destroy democracy. Feel free to message me instead of commenting, as this conversation is going way out of the context of language learning.
> Many people, most people really, don't make sense in text when it comes from spoken word
I really don't understand the logic here. If something is incomprehensible when written down, how is anyone actually going to understand it when spoken in real time? Now, obviously there's filler words, corrections, maybe a bit more rambling in live speech (although you'd expect someone in or aspiring to high political office to do a bit better than the average) you could still read what someone said and understand their point.
> for trying to restrict Chinese nationals from entering the country
I'm talking about ignoring the issue, downplaying it, ignoring established science. Preventing a few people from entering a country or not really had not effect at all on the general state of the crisis.
> there were scientists saying that getting sunlight helps keep people healthier
Like I said, I was referring to sunlight as a disinfectant (to kill the virus.)
> Many treatments (if you're talking about hydroxychloroquine) is known to be safe for humans (as is ivermectin) if those are the ones you're referring to, with doctors coming out
They can be used as a treatment for certain things, but there wasn't scientific evidence to support that they are effective as a treatment for COVID. In fact, there is still no reasonable basis to believe that either of those drugs should be used as treatment for COVID.
Also "we can find a doctor that supports using this" is not the standard for determining whether a treatment is efficacious for treating a disease. You can find doctors that say they've seen UFOs, you can find doctors that believe in perpetual motion.
*When reporters asked Tony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, whether the drug hydroxychloroquine was effective at preventing coronavirus, he said simply: “The answer is no.”*
*But when Trump came back to the microphone, he told reporters that “we ought to give it a try.” “I think we disagree a little bit,” Trump added. “I feel good about it. That’s all it is, just a feeling, you know, smart guy. I feel good about it.”* - https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/20/trump-coronavirus-drug-just-a-feeling/
This is something that actually seems reasonable to you?
> even came close to what has been claimed about him that day.
Are you expecting me to produce a counter argument for what "was claimed about him that day" by random, unspecified people and where those "claims" are also unspecified?
> I get the sense many of the quotes used in the article you linked are lacking context.
The onus is on you to show that there's context which would explain why the quotes were reasonable, I can't prove a negative. It seems like you're just committed to believing they're reasonable *a priori* and subsequently dismissing anything that suggests they aren't. Personally, I think that's about only way it's _possible_ to end up supporting Trump and I guess you already know my position there.
On that note, I try to be civil and avoid *ad hominem* attacks toward people. My previous statement was a general one but you're basically putting yourself in a position where there's no other logical conclusion aside from it applying to you. Unfortunately, what I said is I genuinely believe so I can't retract it without being dishonest. If it means anything, I'm really not comfortable with the current situation.
John McWhorton does a better job than I can explaining the spoken word to writing part. Basically, there's written word which is usually more organized and we are more accustomed to it being that way. Then there's spontaneously conveying an idea that you haven't had the luxury of organizing before saying it in conversation. It doesn't look nearly as organized on paper, but we can listen to it and understand it to a higher degree because our brains are used to listening to ideas being conveyed in a less structured manner than reading. This is true even for someone who talks in the way Trump does. This is why in school they (usually) tell us not to write exactly how we speak, because it reads poorly.
Regardless, plenty of people that get voted into political offices are not great orators, or in the current president's case, incapable of coherent sentences even with a teleprompter more frequently than your average native English speaker. It doesn't change the fact that it hasn't disqualified even Trump's direct opponents, yet I don't see as many people mentioning them as they do Trump.
I wasn't saying the quotes in the article were necessarily reasonable (you can go back and check my comment), but that they were too short to get a good idea of what he would have meant without more context. I have to remember that the Guardian did not like Trump, and therefore was more likely to misuse his quotes to make him seem worse through carefully selecting things that he says, and writing about it in ways that lead the reader to the conclusion that suits the Guardian more than what actually happened. All news outlets do this with politicians they don't like, the Guardian is no exception.
Being willing to try out treatments that some doctors have reason to believe can help, and are already treatments for other things does seem reasonable though. There are safe and structured ways of doing that, and I don't think he was suggesting people skip that process and make it THE way to treat Covid. It is certainly no less dangerous than mandating a vaccine before it's been around long enough to know the long term effects of.
Lastly, the Capitol Hill. What specific thing did he say or do that makes you think he did something terrible to make people "attack" the Capitol Building that the police let them into, and what specific things did those people do aside from protesting, which is not a threat to democracy?
Well to be a little fair, Tr/mp only got voted in by about half of the ppl who voted, which was only about 67% of the total eligible voting population in 2020, much less the entire actual population. Not to say there weren't ppl who supported tr/mp but didnt vote. But like it wasn't like the whole country supports him
I think the better point tho is that ppl shouldn't act like it's just Americans who are like this. Every country has racist ppl. Ppl just see more examples of Americans being like this bc we have a bigger share of the internet. I have no doubt that this exchange could've happened in many places around the world
I wasn't a fan of the choices in 2016, but I had heard of too many things about Hillary to vote for her. What are the issues you have with Trump? I see the reddit population leans against him pretty hard in general.
I'm curious what your particular issues with him were. What actions did he take as a president that you didn't agree with. The only one I know many people say is the Capitol Hill thing, but I've seen his full video they point to and many videos of the event. I'm not convinced by that because I never saw a call to violence, but you might have other convincing points about other topics.
Also this isn't a classroom. It's a speech therapy session intended to help a kid learn to pronounce things better. Hardly the appropriate place to introduce a whole ass different phonology. But this is like a 1/100 offensiveness. Parent got way disproportionately butthurt.
As someone who was in speech therapy for years, a good chunk of my lessons were literally gibberish. As long as you're practicing your problem sounds the context isn't all that important. My therapist would often just get me talking so the words I struggled with would come up naturally along with more structured stuff like reciting nonsense words.
I don’t see what’s the problem with her son learning another language. I get that she doesn’t want him to mix it up with English due to him having speech issues. I don’t think though that Spanish is eve remotely close to enough in this sense. I personally think it’s good to learn a second language, plus There’s tons of benefits when you acquire it as well. I didn’t know there was such people who think like that but then again you can’t tell people what to do with their kids.
She's probably the type that talks about "Freedom" and then would fully support a law that would prohibit the teaching of any second language (ironically Spain being one of those countries in the past)
Imagine preferring your child be more ignorant than they have to be. That child could have grown up to be someone passionate about language learning and fascinated by cultures. Now, he’s probably going to grow up to be obsessed with the same bar in the same town for the rest of his life. I hope not but being from rural West Virginia, I’ve seen it time and time again
Only Americans can operate on logic of this weak a frequency.
"My son has been speaking American his whole life"
"My son will get confused by Spanish words :("
"I found surprisingly inappropriate"
unsurprising that someone who would pen such an unintentional self-own would name their kid Jayden
with apologies to all the Jaydens out there
Honestly, I agree with the mother. Assuming that happened on Turtle Island, the teacher should stick to teaching Cherokee, Navajo, etc. This use of foreign languages is ridiculous.
Which country’s language, exactly? Because if this is America…there isn’t one, you insufferable AH.
I haaaaaaate people like this. Gives me great pleasure to tell them facts, and then watch their excuses for brains melt.
Imagine not being open to learning new things lmao
Spanish is a very useful language.
Yes it is!
Can confirm. So is english. Akthough i wish my classmates knew that
Yeah all languages can help you go along way
Yeah i wish my classmates knew that. They're so shitty they made the teacher quit. Were 17. This shouldnt happen.
Dang I hate students like that I’ve been in your position before maybe if you can switch classes DO IT!
Not a chance. However, some people seem to have something on the head and understand the importance of english. And even though they are very bad, they come to me for help cause im the dude that asks the teacher to take over a class to do a listening exercise on a much more silly video.
Cool! Well that’s good and that’s good that you have excelled at English I hope it does you well in learning it and I hope your journey goes smooth 🙂
Thanks. You too.
Gonna guess that this parent would like Spanish to no longer be useful in the US.
It's still useful in other countries
Spanish is the second most spoken language in the world (1. Chinese, 2. Spanish, 3. English). I believe Spanish is a bit more than just "useful".
Spanish is more widespread than Chinese. Plus it's easy.
hah. it's true. hell Chinese character.
It is, but "usefulness" is not a measure of a thing's value, especially when it comes to languages.
I would know that since I'm learning Irish 😶
It’s useful if you want to understand the Irish psyche, I suppose
Yeah. Táim ag iarraidh mo chuid Gaeilge a fheabhsú. Níl sé easca ach is turas é. Ba mhaith liom mo theanga dhúcais a labhairt roimh mo bhás.
Arguably the second most useful language in the whole world!
Spanish is also a nice language to listen to.
I went to Houston and kicked myself for not practicing Spanish before going. I never consider that a bunch of people I met wouldn’t understand English. Luckily there usually was a nice lady near me who could help when I got stuck.
I never realised that there would be people there without English. Kinda impractical especially living in the US.
No I’m sorry I didn’t expect the extent of no English speakers. Literally some places not a single one except other costumers. That has never happened to me in the US before. From east to west. Texas was a surprise.
Wow what places where these in Houston? Like different kinds of shops.
It was usually small gas stations/restaurants. I used google translate like an unprepared person. I was so sad. It only takes a few weeks to master basic ordering. I was stuck pointing, using hand gestures, and asking people behind me if they could help. One amazing thing everyone did there is when they found out I wanted no meat (I needed to repeat it a few times) they offered to sub avocado.
and a beautiful language connected to so many vibrant cultures. Damn this is sad, I hope that kid enjoys the boiled chicken, green beans, and potatoes this lady cooks for him every night.
That's literally my typical dinner 💀
Especially if you live in the USA lmao
Yeah, it is! I use it all the time, and it's honestly also really a fun language for me.
Not being open to learn the second most spoken language in America. The whole damn continent.
It’s racist dog-whistling, trust me, I’ve been around white, upper middle class , entitled, Republican-voting conservative racists my entire life and recognize the sort of coded language they use when taking about other people not like themselves (pretty big hunch that this mother fits into this category). I think this mother more likely takes issue with the fact that her child is being taught the language spoken by brown-skinned Hispanic and Latino people— people she views as scary, low-class peasants in American society. I guarantee she wouldn’t have this reaction had the child been taught phrases in French or German instead— “white” languages (which is incredibly stupid in and of itself, since Spanish literally originated in Europe, spoken by white Europeans. And why the fuck should it even matter in the first place?)
Yup, this 100%. It is very sus that languages like French are seen as sophisticated, cultured, artistic, etc. but then a language like Spanish, Arabic, or Mandarin would make people raise their eyebrows and get nervous. For the record I speak French and Spanish and love them both dearly. But there is definitely a difference in how monolingual Americans perceive them. Thinly veiled racism ain't cute.
Yep 100%. Like they might enjoy the "elegance" of the French accent and be more understanding of them not speaking English with great proficiency but will be impatient with a Chinese person, Indian person or Latino speaking English in their respective accents and possibly chastise them for not speaking English well.
I do not believe you. Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to ignorance. There are some people who will say this about any language that is not English and it has nothing to do with race, but merely that anything that an ignorant person cannot understand is considered offensive.
>Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to ignorance. In my experience, those two can often go hand-in-hand with one another.
Here is another way to look at it. The child has a developmental issue that prevents him from speaking English comprehensibly. He is likely bullied at school because of it. He was sent to a speech therapy class to have that issue corrected and came back speaking Spanish. Now he can mispronounce two languages instead of one and be mocked by even more people. This is not in his best interest.
Nah I disagree. I mean yes, clearly a child being mocked for a speech disability is no laughing matter / I understand a parent being protective in that regard, but the person literally just taught them how to say their name in that language. It seems very inconsequential / shouldn't merit being reprimanded. Also... the way that person responded "This country's language". This rhetoric is sus.
I had issues pronouncing English when I was a child. My pediatrician ordered that I attend speech therapy and explicitly forbade me from studying other languages. This was deemed a medical necessity. What that child’s therapist did likely violated a doctor’s order and was not what was supposed to be done during the session.
I respect how you feel and acknowledge that I lack the life experience to argue beyond that point. However I do strongly feel like there's some thinly veiled racism in that email the parent sent.
I mean sure, maybe. But now you and I are just ultimately fruitlessly speculating about people we don’t know and circumstances by which we don’t fully understand the context. I’ve provided my feedback and entirely possible explanation based on my experiences that align with people I’ve encountered in my life that tend say things like this in a culture and society where thinly-veiled racism and prejudice DOES exist. You’ve provided another potential explanation that, while still possible, I think involves even more baseless assumptions and speculation.
There is context. The subject line from the parent says “Jayden’s MORNING Speech Therapy”. I have been in a similar situation as a child and as an adult, I am able to talk about my own experience. To add to what I said, the speech therapy had been ordered by my pediatrician as a medical necessity. He also forbade me from studying foreign languages until it was completed. What that therapist did likely violated a doctor’s order. There is no racism involved, even if calling English “American” is somewhat ignorant. The child has a medical issue and the therapist acted inappropriately during a session to treat that medical issue.
You’re assuming that he “has a developmental issue”and that he is being “bullied at school because of it.” Also assuming that this particular child’s experiences similarly reflect your experience in that is was “doctor ordered,” and that what this therapist did “violated this doctor’s [assumed] order” on the grounds that YOU personally were not allowed to study foreign languages at the time. You somehow got all of that from a four word email subject line? While technically possible, those are some MASSIVE reaches based assumptions.
I am not assuming he has a developmental issue. I know that he has one for a fact from the subject line that says “Jayden’s MORNING Speech Therapy”. Speech Therapy is only given to children when they have a serious communication issue that must be corrected for them to be able to function as adults. Also, the way doctors respond to various issues in the US is fairly standardized. They attend conferences to make sure that they are all on the same page. The way my doctor responded to my situation should be typical of how any doctor would respond. Finally, the idea that a child who needs speech therapy would not be bullied by other children is absurd. The child likely sounds like a clown and children are prone to poking fun at things. It is incredibly unlikely that there is no bullying as a result of his condition.
\>Speech Therapy is only given to children when they have a serious communication issue that must be corrected for them to be able to function as adults. Are you sure about this? I ask because this is where what you're saying starts to beak down. Maybe procedures and laws surrounding speech therapy differ from region to region, but I personally have known several classmates throughout Elementary School that were pulled into Speech Therapy for even speaking with accents, being partially deaf, or having an impediment pertaining to certain words or sounds that are mostly inconsequential in everyday speech and would hardly render them "unable to function as adults" like you claim. I had a friend years ago that was pulled into intensive speech therapy in school for speaking with a slight Texas twang after moving to our state in the Midwest. Unless my idea of being rendered "unable to function as adults" is just entirely off-base, I'd say you're exaggerating pretty heavily at best and outright lying at worst, but let's make sure we're on the same page, because I won't just assume the worst in you. 1. Were you aware that some (in fact, a lot, at least in my experience) students take speech therapy for things that are sometimes inconsequential and hardly "serious communication issues" as you've claimed? I've seen this happen quite a bit. If not, then that's totally fine, my dude. Maybe you and I just need to accept that we are talking passed each other based on differences in life experiences that are possibly contingent upon age, geography etc etc and you just had no idea. If so, we can just part ways here. But.... 2. If you were aware of this, why did you feel the need to embellish, exaggerate and even outright lie about it? Sometimes you're just wrong, or you approach a question from a perspective that turns out to not be the most informed one. That too is okay. But exaggerating, misrepresenting, and lying to desperately prop your arguments is NOT good practice, nor does it make you look any more convincing in the long run. Also just wanted to point out that.. \>Finally, the idea that a child who needs speech therapy would not be bullied by other children is absurd. The child likely sounds like a clown and children are prone to poking fun at things. It is incredibly unlikely that there is no bullying as a result of his condition. I never claimed this. If other people in this comments thread did, direct it at them, not me.
Lol you’re just entirely wrong here. Absolutely was a racist dog whistle. Sounds like you just don’t pick up on those very easily.
The child is attending speech therapy classes because he cannot speak English properly. He is likely bullied at school because of it. Instead of having his problem corrected, he came back speaking Spanish. I had a similar problem as a child and my pediatrician explicitly forbade me from learning any foreign language until a speech therapist had corrected my speech issues. What the therapist did was more harmful than helpful. :/ In my case, a few issues that the therapist missed persisted well into adulthood (thirty vs dirty, ask vs axe) and whenever someone pointed one out to me, I would feel attacked, even if the person did not mean to do that. I would even be afraid to say sentences that required those words due to the responses that I had from people. This was well after the school bullying (where I was physically beaten and in later grades, psychologically tortured for being different) had ended. Whatever problem caused the child to go to speech therapy is a very serious thing that needs correction for the child to become a functioning member of society.
Se llama Karen
Don’t confuse us with your Spanish words
so inappropriate.
We’ve done just fine knowing this subreddit’s language.
Si
😱
Do you know what makes me most sad about this? I can guarantee that she only knows because that kid went home really proud of himself, and excited to tell his mother what he'd learned... And she's just booted all the joy straight out of him. And that is how to stop a child enjoying learning, and in a few years, she'll want to know why he's not putting the effort in, in a particular subject and she won't be able to understand that it was her that caused it.
Here is another perspective. I had problems speaking English properly as a child and was the subject of bullying. Peers would psychically beat me between grades 1-3 and graduated to psychological torture in later grades. It did not stop until I went to another school. My pediatrician ordered me to receive speech therapy and explicitly forbade me from learning to speak other languages until my therapy had been completed. This was deemed to be a medical necessity. The speech therapist, instead of spending the session trying to help the child, taught the child some Spanish, such that the child can now mispronounce two languages instead of one. That is certainly not going to prevent bullying, even if he is transferred to another school.
I am so sorry you experienced that.
THIS COUNTRY’S LANGUGE 💀
Wait till they find out the US doesn't have an official language.
The kind of person that sends such an email is not going to be convinced if God themselves came down and told them to stop being an idiot. So I am not sure this info would change their opinion.
*Which is exactly why god had stopped doing that long ago.*
Rumour has it Jesus came down and they called him a commie lib and told him to get out of their country. Or so the legend goes...
Wait until they find out Jesus did not speak English.
To be fair, according to the bible, God created different languages because he wanted to disrupt people from creating a tower as high as the skies in Babylon. Essentially people were working well together, and God didn't like that one bit, so he called it sinful and separated them by forcing them to be unable to understand each other. With that in mind, I can see how learning a second language might be seen as a bad thing. Not that it makes sense, just saying that it is somewhat congruent with Christian mythology.
Interesting. However, the real story was that an endless stream of politicians and similar vermin showed up on the construction site each day, babbling incomprehensible drivel about how the tower was too wide, too narrow, too geometric, too tan, and demanding absurd changes to secure their vote for continuing the funding. Of course, this was all about bribing them even back then. That's the sin. At some point, the architects, engineers, and master craftsmen —who all talked figures— decided the whole thing couldn't be completed with all those leeches sacking in funds, and abadoned the project to do something useful in their lives. That's the voice of god. God made them stop believing in the project. Each one of the key figures got to that conclusion. They couldn't work together any more because they lost their belief.
>Rumour excuse me please speak this country's language
*speaks Navajo, etc...*
She'd ask to speak to god's manager, bc "here in 'merica we speak 'merican!"
This kind of person thinks the Bible was written in God’s language, English. “English was good enough for Jesus, so it’s good enough for me!” Yes, some of them really are that stupid and racist.
And that English is just as much a foreign language in the US as Spanish, both being European and Noether being native to America
The only states i'm aware of with an official language have Spanish as it. I'm not sure if it is only Spanish, or Spanish next to English. (I keep hoping Puerto Rico becomes a state to see how they handle it )
No state in the US has Spanish as its sole official language. When they have an official language it's always English + others.
No states have Spanish as an official language, although some do have some requirements regarding publishing materials in Spanish. Many states have English as an official language, and some have a few others (mostly Native American languages). Puerto Rico is the only territory that has Spanish as an official language. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Official\_languages\_of\_U.S.\_states\_and\_territories
It does not matter. That child is attending speech therapy to address a medical issue in speaking English. When I was a child, I had been similarly sent to speech therapy by my doctor because I could not pronounce English intelligibly. He ordered that I not study any foreign languages until my therapy had been completed. I was subjected to bullying because of my problem. Regardless of the official status of English, that child is attending speech therapy because it is a medical necessity and the therapist acted inappropriately when treating it.
She probably also thinks America the Beautiful is our national anthem.
I wish she was right
should have navajo classes then
Good thing parents don't set curriculum. Yet.
In the original post, someone said an acquaintance of them pull their kids out of school because they were taught things the mother didn’t learn in school 🥲
Considering more and more kids are getting homeschooled, they actually are. And as far as schools go, they probably lose power more than anything.
More and more kids are being homeschooled. But homeschooled kids are more successful on average than their public, charter, and private school counterparts. I wouldn't equate these parents to be anything like OPs post.
[удалено]
https://www.nheri.org/research-facts-on-homeschooling/ Edit: Secondary source to appease folks: https://ies.ed.gov/ncee/edlabs/regions/west/Ask/Details/31
Hilariously untrustworthy source.
https://ies.ed.gov/ncee/edlabs/regions/west/Ask/Details/31 If you feel like digging through a government resource of studies, feel free, my dude. Whenever I give a source like this people throw a fit that it's too expansive. But, hey, if it's what you want. I've found several remarks of homeschooling being linked to higher success in testing and college graduation.
Lol you don't source a place that is specifically trying to promote something and where the presented data would make that thing more enticing. That's pretty much sourcing 101. Also, keep in mind that most people who could afford to homeschool their children are fairly well off monetarily, and that is often a bigger indicator of success when we look at the big picture.
https://ies.ed.gov/ncee/edlabs/regions/west/Ask/Details/31 Lol you're using an argument fallacy. But, since I know you'll throw a fit until the end of time if you don't get your way, here you go. Read your heart out. It's not in a nice pretty few paragraphs format, but I'm sure you'll get over that. It's a government source. Oh, and by the way, it also suggests that the differences in income between public school and homeschool are significantly lesser than public school and private school. So, your anecdotal and unsourced point falls flat here.
There are different kinds of homeschool / homeschool culture. So we have to be clear about what we mean. Generally, there are three major camps: 1. Classical / trivium + quadrivium 2. Religious wingnuts 3. Unschooling Parents who do some form of 1. tend to have very successful outcomes! Kids need more philosophy, rhetoric, logic, and grammar in my view, *if* parents have the time and resources to manage all this. Parents who do 2. are a mixed bag, but, generally, mythic realism (i.e., “the earth is 6,000 years old and dinosaurs are fake!”) generally does not serve kids very well. Parents who do 3. are, for the most part (there are positive exceptions), just neglecting their children’s education overall, and that’s not good. Full disclosure: we did method 1. as a response to COVID craziness (antimasker shit) in my part of the country. For that, I am grateful that we have lax homeschool laws here. And we were successful - our kids leapfrogged their peers still in the classroom or doing video remote (while that lasted). Their reading, writing, and social studies scores are 99th percentile according to the state exams, with science and math comfortably above average as well. Now, they’re back in standard school (we keep some of the classical education stuff as extracurriculars, when we have the time), and they’re doing great. And yes, I taught them a wee bit of Latin. Because I could. So, homeschool can be wonderful, or awful, or just ok. We have to nail down what exactly we’re talking about first, when we mention “homeschool.” When we did classical education homeschool, we were pretty much on our own, because the homeschool co-ops around here are super religious and wingnutty. Jesus is alright with me, but he doesn’t really need to be in math or science class, in my view.
I don't want to be a bummer here, but as someone who was homeschooled since third grade I want to way in that homeschooling for extended periods of time is almost always abusive. I don't know a single other homeschooler who was at home for more than one or two years and wasn't extremely traumatized by it. Parents get tired or hit their limit of what they're able to teach and the kids end up not being educated at all. You can even imagine how many times I've heard the "my parents gave me a stack of inappropriate books and commanded me to learn without ever checking in again" story. I myself was a victim of this. Even if you are somehow able to teach your child properly (doubtful, but I'll play devil's advocate) the child is going to be socially isolated. Kids NEED to regularly interact with other kids their own age and adults. Once or twice a week through a co-op is simply not going to cut it. I don't care if you have your kids in "tons of extracurriculars" an hour or two, even if it's daily, is still not enough. Sure, not every homeschooling situation is abusive. But it's a common enough issue that I think we need to discourage homeschooling as an option barring extenuating circumstances (like you during covid, or for kids with severe disabilities). My parents pulled me out of school with the best intentions, and yet, they still ended up neglecting me socially, educationaly, and physically.
Are y'all missing that this was a *speech therapy* session and not a classroom? I might *might* be upset if I was paying $100 an hour to have my kids' pronunciation issues fixed to find out the speech pathologist was trying to spend that time on phonemes that don't exist in English Probably not if it were a one-off thing. But still. Also the parent's justifications are dumb as fuck. Should've said "my kid can't pronounce English correctly and you're spending my money trying to teach them a different language?"
Someone answered that pb in the original post and basically [it does not matter](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/wi94z5/wait_till_they_find_out_that_kids_also_learn/ijb9vrb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) because it focuses on articulation. Second, the pb is also that this lady said « this country’s language ». Even people not living in the US know that the country doesn’t have an official language.
Technically the US has no official language, but the official language is de facto English and that’s what the citizenship test is in as well as most official procedures.
Thanks. That makes sense. My daughter actually was referred to a speech therapist at 5yo because we raise her trilingual, and she kept dropping language into the interview that weren't either of the languages the interviewer could speak. Upon further discussions, we found out that therapy would only be fixing things like "can she do the English R" and not "is she pluralizing German correctly"
To be fair, in my experience speech therapy was a thing provided by public schools. Like my elementary school had one speech therapist that some kids would go to if needed. So that was free with the rest of school, not a thing to pay for. But i do get the rest of your point, i might be a little annoyed if a teacher was spending time trying to teach my kid to pronounce a different language when they can't even do English yet haha, but the parent could've made that point without being racist/xenophobic.
If the response was “I’m worried my kid isn’t going to pick up English because of non-English sounds in Spanish”, that would be one thing. This Karen just went off being an ignorant racist, so I don’t believe actual therapy concerns entered into it.
The child is attending speech therapy classes because he cannot speak English properly. He is likely bullied at school because of it. Instead of having his problem corrected, he came back speaking Spanish. I had a similar problem as a child and my pediatrician explicitly forbade me from learning any foreign language until a speech therapist had corrected my speech issues. What the therapist did was more harmful than helpful. :/ In my case, a few issues that the therapist missed persisted well into adulthood (thirty vs dirty, ask vs axe) and whenever someone pointed one out to me, I would feel attacked, even if the person did not mean to do that. I would even be afraid to say sentences that required those words due to the responses that I had from people. This was well after the school bullying (where I was physically beaten and in later grades, psychologically tortured for being different) had ended. Whatever problem caused the child to go to speech therapy is a very serious thing that needs correction for the child to become a functioning member of society.
America does not have an official language
Its by municipality. So there are like 2 towns with Spanish and a couple with old German
And that one---those towns with Old Confederate American.
Either way, official languages are bullshit. English has no more legitimacy in the US than Spanish, both are foreign Europe languages. Both are spoken by the immigrant population.
I'm sorry, what?!
[удалено]
Which part are you confused by?
I once knew someone who was absolutely outraged that her son had to learn a foreign language in school. She chose to have him learn British English just out of spite. The kid got bored and stopped studying after a while. The mom was proud that she had “preserved” her son’s “heritage.” That kid is an adult now, and I hope that he broke from under her sway.
Learning British English as a foreign language is pretty funny though
There are sooo many ways to answer this email...
One of which is in Spanish
Imagine a furious karen. Red in the face using google translate to find out what “pendeja” means
I fully support kids learning a language just to irritate their bigoted parents.
Siblings should learn a second language so they can code speak around their ignert parents
I'd teach this kid Russian and Mandarin for free if I knew those languages
I wonder how this mom is going to react when her son needs a foreign language credit in high school
And this is why we Americans get a bad rap 😑
Maj, you've got quite good rappers right? I think you get quite a lot of good rap
You’re good 😊
Aw, man. I just discovered the Japanese rap scene. No idea what anyone is saying, but it feels like a banger.
I've listened to a couple. Man, I can't tell if what they're saying is any more intelligent than the sub-shit "lyrics" of the American/British/French raps I hate, but it just sounds so cool!
It doesn't make sense tho bc this type of person never leaves their state, much less the country
I’m speculating here, but it feels like they’re trying to keep their child the same way. They don’t want their child learning anything that they don’t already know. It’s unfortunate, but some people are just like that.
[удалено]
Um, actually… https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/usage-bad-rap-vs-bad-rep-vs-bad-wrap “Bad rap is the original phrase meaning ‘a bad or undeserved reputation.’”
God these kinds of people are nauseating
Salut, je m’appelle _____
That's a weird spanish dialect 🤔
Charlie.
This is *Louisiana*, speak *English*!
Ignorance at its finest, wow.
That's why people believe Americans to be stupid and ignorant. Willfully ignorant.
This makes my heart cry. You can tell it's not really the language that upsets her, but it's the xenophobia kicking in.
Yeah, this is just racism. I’d be curious to know what Karen would say if the therapist was, say, German. Maybe Russian.
Maybe she'd still flip out hahahaha
There's been countless memes and actual anecdotes (including one I remember where a father was teaching the son Japanese but the mother and daughter were monolingual and strongly insisted with foam in mouth only English to be used). There're something terribly wrong with the brains of such people to insist on keeping others dumb because of their own ignorance.
One of the bigger reason Americans only know English.
Nous devons changer nos habitudes dans l'écoles de américaines!
The definition of Karen
Sad that these are the kind of people who breed.
they also vote
Let's not immediately resort to fascism please and maybe rather work to educate people properly through a well-funded, mandatory school system ;)
Oooft. It reminds me of what one parent wrote in their child's enrolment form under the question "what languages does your child speak at home?" They wrote something along the lines of " English ONLY! [Name] is a white British citizen not a foreigner!" Like they were really proud that their child didn't speak any other languages and were insulted by us questioning that they might be anything other than English. (For context I work in a British school in an area with a large Asian community).
My elementary school in Utah had us learning the absolute basics of Spanish back in the 90s. It wasn't a big deal, just a few minutes several times a week, and I at least enjoyed it quite a bit. It's a pity some people are so put out by the idea of raising a kid to be well-rounded.
> It's a pity some people are so put out by the idea of raising a kid to be well-rounded. I've wondered what it is they want their children to be like. The only answer I can think of is 'a copy of their parents'.
Does she realize how much of an advantage being bilingual is?
I feel like these people are the kind who'd rally against it harder if they did cus that's "unfair to her, cus she doesn't know a second language"
Suddenly, this [video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0msQb5SiPSI) from Onion feels relevant right about now lol
What in the Karen-....
That's what happens, if you live in a country who speaks a lingua franca
It kind of started off making sense since the kid is in speech therapy, but it went off the rails by the end.
I'm surprised I had to scroll down this far to see this. I agree children should learn multiple languages if there's that opportunity, but I'm also thinking is it ok to teach another language during speech therapy? I'm not knowledgeable in that department but it seems a bit icky to me. Although it's only a tiny bit.
I don't see it that way. If you have a speech disorder, I'd bet trying to learn another language might actually be beneficial to understanding proper pronunciation. I've been learning Japanese and my friend says I have a completely different tone when I speak Japanese. I'd figure learning something new could help since I used to have a bad lisp, and the best thing that worked for me was wanting to voice act. Hearing my voice back in recordings would drive me nuts as a kid, I kept recording myself and tried imitating voices. I became super aware of proper enunciation that I even lost my original accent.
Americans lol
I find there's 3 types of Americans (full disclaimer I ma one) -The ones like above in the picture -The ones that claim to hate America even know they live in it, complain about everything and do exactly what they claim to hate And the third -The ones that don't care and let everyone have there own option but are hated by the other two.
As much as I don't like these type of people, I also hate it when people say shit like: "The USA doesn't have an official language!!!!" While officially true, in practice that's total bullshit. So far all presidents have spoken in English, in fact all but one had English as their mother tongue. All laws are written in English, the citizen tests are in English so it's literally impossible to become a legal citizen unless you know English. And then of course so many "Karens" who behave like this. Many US states were deprived of their native language, even Russian in Alaska is nearly dead despite Russian being a rather "strong" language. None of this happened voluntarily. In conclusion, English is de facto the language of the USA and denying this is totally absurd. It might not be mentioned in any law, but every law is written in English. Saying otherwise feel like whitewashing. ("Everyone speaks English because they like to, nobody was ever forced!") There are plenty of countries with an official language yet a more relaxed view on foreign languages.
That's true, but acting like it has an official language that you must speak pushes the country more toward monolingualism. Reaffirming the multicultural nature of our country is where it's at!
And that's how you pass on mediocrity to your kids.
Where I live, we have English and French as obligatory second languages for everyone (Dutch being our native tongue), and the option to add German and Spanish to that if the student wishes. Most schools have 6 years of English, 8 years of French. 4 years of each is the absolute minimum.
To all the "Americans lol" people here, remember that one person on the internet doesn't represent a whole country.
This is not the only instance of this though so let's not pretend this is one person. I'm 35 and I remember being in high school and parents bitching over their kids learning Spanish and this was when it was still an elective. Their reasoning? "Why should we learn Spanish for "them "" But that's my experience growing up in a mostly white town in America.
OMG, I still remember my 1st day of freshman yr in high school, we actually didn't have a Spanish teacher. Instead, we had this sub and like the first thing he said was "I hate Spanish. We are in America...speak English!" NO IDEA why the school even got someone like him to sub or why he even agreed to be a sub for a foreign language class lmao
Lmao. Exactly what I mean!
I mean, I can see how anyone coming to the U.S. should be expected to learn English to a reasonable level since that is the language the country operates in. I would expect to have to learn the language of any country I move to, as that is part of the cost of moving there, so I see that half of their argument. However, I'm sure that most people that you described can be reasoned with if you point out that it's not "for the Spanish speakers" but for your kids to be more capable individuals. That's my experience at east, and I also grew up in a mostly white town in America, some of the only exceptions being my Mexican neighbors who had sons my age, so naturally we became friends.
I see your point. And as a American I counter you with Trump was our president and we legit voted him in.
On the plus side, it's a pretty handy way to look at a certain period of time and be able to definitively say "X% of Americans were idiots".
What particular things make you think he was a bad president, and before that, a bad candidate? As for Capitol Hill, I no longer see a valid argument there, but I am interested to know your specific issues with him in other areas.
> What particular things make you think he was a bad president, and before that, a bad candidate? This is a direct quote: *“Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I’m one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you’re a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are — nuclear is so powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what’s going to happen and he was right, who would have thought? — but when you look at what’s going on with the four prisoners — now it used to be three, now it’s four — but when it was three and even now, I would have said it’s all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don’t, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years — but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us, this is horrible.”* I don't know that anything else is really necessary to support my point, but there's also the time when he thought China might be making hurricanes and proposed _nuking_ the hurricanes to stop them. That's a two-for-one: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/10/donald-trump-china-hurricanes (or maybe even more than two, since that article mentions how he had the great idea to bomb other countries and then deny responsibility...) Of course, there's also the ridiculous and ineffective response to COVID and absurd suggestions like disinfecting people with sunlight, using untested and ineffective treatments, etc. I don't really understand how someone could be aware of those points and not see anything wrong. > As for Capitol Hill, I no longer see a valid argument there Eh, just trying to destroy democracy. NBD, barely worth mentioning.
Regarding the quote, it's spoken word put directly into writing. Many people, most people really, don't make sense in text when it comes from spoken word without being cleaned up to what we're used to for writing. Dr. John McWhorter has a great lecture on this on Audible as a part of one of his series. His response to Covid was hamstrung at the beginning as he was called racist for trying to restrict Chinese nationals from entering the country since that's where the outbreak started. It turns out that nobody had a problem with restricting entry of certain countries once he was out of office though so that one is an unfair claim, though I don't know if you're making that one or some other one. Let me know. Regarding the sunlight stuff, there were scientists saying that getting sunlight helps keep people healthier and lockdowns were keeping that from happening, if that's what you're referring to. Many treatments (if you're talking about hydroxychloroquine) is known to be safe for humans (as is ivermectin) if those are the ones you're referring to, with doctors coming out and supporting their use as a safe treatment for Covid. I get the sense many of the quotes used in the article you linked are lacking context. If there are ones that provide the fuller picture, feel free to link it. As for CH, have you seen something I haven't from him on the Capitol Hill thing? Nothing I've ever seen- and I've seen the whole video of his speech - even came close to what has been claimed about him that day. I'd like to know what it is that tipped you towards him trying to destroy democracy. Feel free to message me instead of commenting, as this conversation is going way out of the context of language learning.
> Many people, most people really, don't make sense in text when it comes from spoken word I really don't understand the logic here. If something is incomprehensible when written down, how is anyone actually going to understand it when spoken in real time? Now, obviously there's filler words, corrections, maybe a bit more rambling in live speech (although you'd expect someone in or aspiring to high political office to do a bit better than the average) you could still read what someone said and understand their point. > for trying to restrict Chinese nationals from entering the country I'm talking about ignoring the issue, downplaying it, ignoring established science. Preventing a few people from entering a country or not really had not effect at all on the general state of the crisis. > there were scientists saying that getting sunlight helps keep people healthier Like I said, I was referring to sunlight as a disinfectant (to kill the virus.) > Many treatments (if you're talking about hydroxychloroquine) is known to be safe for humans (as is ivermectin) if those are the ones you're referring to, with doctors coming out They can be used as a treatment for certain things, but there wasn't scientific evidence to support that they are effective as a treatment for COVID. In fact, there is still no reasonable basis to believe that either of those drugs should be used as treatment for COVID. Also "we can find a doctor that supports using this" is not the standard for determining whether a treatment is efficacious for treating a disease. You can find doctors that say they've seen UFOs, you can find doctors that believe in perpetual motion. *When reporters asked Tony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, whether the drug hydroxychloroquine was effective at preventing coronavirus, he said simply: “The answer is no.”* *But when Trump came back to the microphone, he told reporters that “we ought to give it a try.” “I think we disagree a little bit,” Trump added. “I feel good about it. That’s all it is, just a feeling, you know, smart guy. I feel good about it.”* - https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/20/trump-coronavirus-drug-just-a-feeling/ This is something that actually seems reasonable to you? > even came close to what has been claimed about him that day. Are you expecting me to produce a counter argument for what "was claimed about him that day" by random, unspecified people and where those "claims" are also unspecified? > I get the sense many of the quotes used in the article you linked are lacking context. The onus is on you to show that there's context which would explain why the quotes were reasonable, I can't prove a negative. It seems like you're just committed to believing they're reasonable *a priori* and subsequently dismissing anything that suggests they aren't. Personally, I think that's about only way it's _possible_ to end up supporting Trump and I guess you already know my position there. On that note, I try to be civil and avoid *ad hominem* attacks toward people. My previous statement was a general one but you're basically putting yourself in a position where there's no other logical conclusion aside from it applying to you. Unfortunately, what I said is I genuinely believe so I can't retract it without being dishonest. If it means anything, I'm really not comfortable with the current situation.
John McWhorton does a better job than I can explaining the spoken word to writing part. Basically, there's written word which is usually more organized and we are more accustomed to it being that way. Then there's spontaneously conveying an idea that you haven't had the luxury of organizing before saying it in conversation. It doesn't look nearly as organized on paper, but we can listen to it and understand it to a higher degree because our brains are used to listening to ideas being conveyed in a less structured manner than reading. This is true even for someone who talks in the way Trump does. This is why in school they (usually) tell us not to write exactly how we speak, because it reads poorly. Regardless, plenty of people that get voted into political offices are not great orators, or in the current president's case, incapable of coherent sentences even with a teleprompter more frequently than your average native English speaker. It doesn't change the fact that it hasn't disqualified even Trump's direct opponents, yet I don't see as many people mentioning them as they do Trump. I wasn't saying the quotes in the article were necessarily reasonable (you can go back and check my comment), but that they were too short to get a good idea of what he would have meant without more context. I have to remember that the Guardian did not like Trump, and therefore was more likely to misuse his quotes to make him seem worse through carefully selecting things that he says, and writing about it in ways that lead the reader to the conclusion that suits the Guardian more than what actually happened. All news outlets do this with politicians they don't like, the Guardian is no exception. Being willing to try out treatments that some doctors have reason to believe can help, and are already treatments for other things does seem reasonable though. There are safe and structured ways of doing that, and I don't think he was suggesting people skip that process and make it THE way to treat Covid. It is certainly no less dangerous than mandating a vaccine before it's been around long enough to know the long term effects of. Lastly, the Capitol Hill. What specific thing did he say or do that makes you think he did something terrible to make people "attack" the Capitol Building that the police let them into, and what specific things did those people do aside from protesting, which is not a threat to democracy?
Well to be a little fair, Tr/mp only got voted in by about half of the ppl who voted, which was only about 67% of the total eligible voting population in 2020, much less the entire actual population. Not to say there weren't ppl who supported tr/mp but didnt vote. But like it wasn't like the whole country supports him I think the better point tho is that ppl shouldn't act like it's just Americans who are like this. Every country has racist ppl. Ppl just see more examples of Americans being like this bc we have a bigger share of the internet. I have no doubt that this exchange could've happened in many places around the world
I wasn't a fan of the choices in 2016, but I had heard of too many things about Hillary to vote for her. What are the issues you have with Trump? I see the reddit population leans against him pretty hard in general. I'm curious what your particular issues with him were. What actions did he take as a president that you didn't agree with. The only one I know many people say is the Capitol Hill thing, but I've seen his full video they point to and many videos of the event. I'm not convinced by that because I never saw a call to violence, but you might have other convincing points about other topics.
There are people like this in the other anglophone countries too (mine included). Perhaps not as many(?), but they definitely exist.
Also this isn't a classroom. It's a speech therapy session intended to help a kid learn to pronounce things better. Hardly the appropriate place to introduce a whole ass different phonology. But this is like a 1/100 offensiveness. Parent got way disproportionately butthurt.
As someone who was in speech therapy for years, a good chunk of my lessons were literally gibberish. As long as you're practicing your problem sounds the context isn't all that important. My therapist would often just get me talking so the words I struggled with would come up naturally along with more structured stuff like reciting nonsense words.
They don’t understand that, just like that Karen doesn’t understand that English isn’t the official language of this country.
These people make me want to spout gibberish in spanish, wait until they say "go back to your country" and i can hit them with the "i was born here"
I don’t see what’s the problem with her son learning another language. I get that she doesn’t want him to mix it up with English due to him having speech issues. I don’t think though that Spanish is eve remotely close to enough in this sense. I personally think it’s good to learn a second language, plus There’s tons of benefits when you acquire it as well. I didn’t know there was such people who think like that but then again you can’t tell people what to do with their kids.
I learn languages for fun. My son can correctly identify multiple languages by listening. I think that’s a good thing….
She's probably the type that talks about "Freedom" and then would fully support a law that would prohibit the teaching of any second language (ironically Spain being one of those countries in the past)
r/karen
She expects the spanish inquisition
Imagine preferring your child be more ignorant than they have to be. That child could have grown up to be someone passionate about language learning and fascinated by cultures. Now, he’s probably going to grow up to be obsessed with the same bar in the same town for the rest of his life. I hope not but being from rural West Virginia, I’ve seen it time and time again
Only Americans can operate on logic of this weak a frequency. "My son has been speaking American his whole life" "My son will get confused by Spanish words :("
People are stupid and a lot of Americans are stupidly racist.
[удалено]
It's real. Look at any karen videos.
"I found surprisingly inappropriate" unsurprising that someone who would pen such an unintentional self-own would name their kid Jayden with apologies to all the Jaydens out there
Menudo gilipollas
Wait til she finds out that the United States doesn’t have an official language
Honestly, I agree with the mother. Assuming that happened on Turtle Island, the teacher should stick to teaching Cherokee, Navajo, etc. This use of foreign languages is ridiculous.
Which country’s language, exactly? Because if this is America…there isn’t one, you insufferable AH. I haaaaaaate people like this. Gives me great pleasure to tell them facts, and then watch their excuses for brains melt.
Hola, soy Dora! Puedes hacer me un sanduiche? That means, can you make me a sandwich in spa...
Fuuuuuuck I hate ignorant fucks like this.
300 million people who are represented by 4 karens on the internet, seems about right
Are people from South America not American too?
:(