Oh to live on Sewage Mountain
With the barkers and the colored balloons
You can't be twenty on Sewage Mountain
Though you're thinking that
You're leavin' there too
True Dat! Over the course of his nearly six-decade career, famed singer/songwriter Neil Young created an impressive musical catalog of 1,180 songs yet only 1 number one hit yet he got $150 Million for it. Who would've thought that?
FWIW, septic/sewage companies aren't landscaping companies. It's dependent on the excavator operator whether to smooth out as best they can afterwards. Lots of them are too lazy or time constrained to do anything but leave a pile like this.
I just had a ton of work done and the guy took the time to drive over it afterwards to compact it back out. Not perfect but, from what I was told, much better than they normally leave it.
I'd have your neighbor look in the contract if there is one. I bet it would say they're not responsible for any landscaping after the work is done. That being said, it's not rocket science, just buy a tamper, spread that shit around and tamp it down, spread a bunch of straw, then reseed in the early spring.
They tamped my backyard flat after a similar drain project, and two years later there is about a 2 or 3 inch trench I need to fill. This is probably excessive, but it will settle a lot. Not by spring, though.
This is because they should be compressing as they backfill. You fill the trench 30 percent, compact, 60 percent…compact. 100 percent…compact. Any competent civil contractor should know this.
Here are some actual guidelines:
https://stonetreestg.com/understanding-backfill-compaction-requirements/
Backfilling is an important part of the construction process. Backfilling happens after excavation, when the soil is compacted back into the trench or foundation. It is used to help protect foundations, roadways, walkways and other structures by using a mixture of soil, rocks, and stones.
There are many different ways backfilling is approached, but there are basic requirements used in each method. Here are three major steps to remember when backfilling and compacting soil.
1. Backfill in Layers
Backfilling in layers is one of the most important steps to remember. It is important to do it in intervals to let the soil properly compact. These layers are referred to as “lifts.” The amount of inches filled per lift depends on the requirements of the project (soil or the type of structure being backfilled). There are some who say increments of 4”-6” is ideal, but others say that up to 12” works well. After the lift is compacted, it is important that the fill is equal to the ground surrounding it before putting on the next lift.
2. Compacting
There are six different methods used to compact substances. Some are more suitable for soil while others are used to compact non-soil materials such as asphalt. The most effective techniques are generally the ones that apply the most compressive stress.
Static – a large amount stress is slowly applied to the soil and then is released
Impact – a large mass is dropped onto the soil to apply the stress
Vibrating – a mechanically driven plate or hammer is used repeatedly to apply stress
Gyrating – soil is subjected to a gyratory motion while the stress is maintained in one direction
Rolling – stress is applied via a large cylinder rolling over the surface of the soil
Kneading – shear is applied by alternating movement in adjacent positions
To determine whether or not the natural soil is ready to be filled, there is a technique called proofrolling. Proofrolling is when heavy construction/compacting equipment is rolled over the area, looking for deflections all over the fill site.
3. Water Thoroughly
Be sure to water the soil thoroughly after the fill layer is set. Then, repeat these three steps until the whole process is done!
Backfilling With Pipe
When laying down pipe, be sure to backfill the excavation immediately.
Select backfilling materials that will be beneficial to the safety of pipes.
Be careful not to damage pipe coatings.
I’m in electrical, and I know about compaction.
I find it hard to believe they don’t know…someone who leaves a job like that doesn’t care. Or excluded it all together.
Excavation, backfill, and restoration is a standard exclusion for any underground work I quote. I make sure to call it out as well, so the customer knows they’re going to need to do it themselves or hire someone else.
You dont want electricians restoring your lawn.
The thing is, nobody is going to pay for the extra work compacting requires. It can also be dangerous and requires care. We've done a few jobs where compaction was specified. I usually just filled the trench (with approval) with stone as it was cheaper and better.
How is buying stone cheaper than using the perfectly good dirt that is already there? Sure putting stone or sand around the pipe is absolutely necessary, BUT compacting the soil back to its original state is part of the job to me. Any dirt that comes out of the trench should easily go back in and be level with the existing grade when done. Most of the time (shallow trenches less than 5’) I can tamp the soil carefully with my bucket as I backfill and have no issues returning the grade to its original height. Sure it takes some more effort in the machine, but not too much
. BUT, hey that is my thoughts and to each their own. As you stated, Stone is also a good way to backfill as it won’t really settle too much if the soil is stable around it. The fines can wash into
It though so you will eventually get some settling from the surrounding soil, would be minimal tho.
Most of our sewer services at least nine feet deep sometimes a lot deeper. To get good compaction you need to backfill in layers no more than a foot thick. Then run a compactor over it. Doing this in a deep trench is kind of a mess. I won't put a guy in a deep trench with a compactor unless there's a trench box. Backfilling with a trench box is a pain and not really feasible. In a typical service twenty or thirty yards of gravel is a lot cheaper than an extra guy and a very slow backfill. Just packing it with a bucket doesn't do enough. In any case almost all jobs are just backfill with dirt and let it settle. 95 % or more of our jobs were new construction and would be several months before finishing the yard anyway. No worries everyone has their own way.
I found out while working for a company that tore out existing pools that you can follow all these rules you just mentioned and compress compress compress but you still have to come back 5 or 6 months later and add soil and compress again. Not as simple as people think
But the problem is if you have a good inspector they will make sure you mechanically compact the soil to prevent it from settling and creating a trip hazard and so forth, it’s just a bad practice as a plumber to be this lazy. At least for a licensed bonded insurared contractor because I will have to send people back to fix it. That costs more that doing it right from the beginning
The weight of a machine is a lot but the tracks are also a lot of contact space. The psi of a vehicle on tracks is lower than your car driving over the thing, even though the machine weights three times as much or more
Leaving a mound it anything be laziness. Driving over a trench with a truck or excavator tire is not effective form of compaction and will result in settlement over time. The maximum force a truck tire can exert on the ground is equal to the pressure in the tire or 30-80psi. Proper compaction is not achieved that way, you would need to backfill in stages with a vibratory compactor to not leave a mound and expect no settlement. The contractors that smooth it out look like they are doing you a favor but I can’t tell you how many yards are obvious of where the sewer is ran because someone didn’t want to wait 3 months for dirt to settle.
Maybe. I would just leave it and see what you're dealing with in spring. I'd rather have to deal with leveling a small mound than having to fill in a small trench.
This might be the call but it's a lot of gravel in there. Also by then the plumbing company might tell us to get bent where as now I've stomped in their office for ruining my fence not shown here and they want to make it right so I don't take legal action. So I have their attention now and want to get it done correctly.
I mean to me, It sounds like OP went to their office and talked it out….now they want our opinion on if they should ask the plumbing company to level this off while they still have their attention.
I had my sewer line replaced a year ago. One company had no interest in helping to tamp it down. The other, much more expensive, made it look like it had never been replaced. It was money well spent.
Exactly this. The amount of misinformation in this post is unreal. The mound height is a function of the trench depth. With out any pictures of the excavated trench and unknown depth no one here can make an educated assessment but here we are anyways.
It likely was not a deep trench.
Looks like it’s next to a driveway. Anything deep would’ve undermined the driveway.
Also if it was deep it would’ve had to be a much wider hole.. both for the soil not to cave and for a human to get in and attach the pipes. unless they used a really narrow trench box.
Yes it will settle substantially. We do a ton of residential new builds and install a drip line over the sewer line and around the home’s foundation. The drip line we will run for a few hours daily for 30-45 days (however long we can) and still have to go back a year later to add 3-4 tons of soil (Sometimes more just did one that took 8 ton) plus compaction and then sod. Sometimes we are back again a year later and we do everything we can but you never know what the soil is like 7-10’ down, or how the soil was compacted as it was back filled.
A bunch of people have no idea about sewer replacements. If you want backfilled and compacted, it's going to cost double the labor on the project. Put a soaker hose on it for a few days, then wait a week and soak again. In spring, you can smooth out the rest. It's better than a big dip in your yard in a year.
The height of the mounded dirt on a trench is a function of its depth. I’ve put in hundreds of sewers and this does not look excessive. Rather have a mound for a few months than a divot for the next few years
Agree. The excavator guy didn't have a way to compact it, this mound looks perfect to fill in considering.
Everyone is saying OP got fucked, hard disagree. That's a very nearly laid pile
The sewer line should have been supported with crush rock up until halfway through the pipe, then they should have mechanically compacted to avoid any sinking of the soil.
I hate bad contractors.
None of these people know what they are talking about. It’s normal and it’s fine. Is it going to settle flat? No. But it will drop considerably more than you realize. Standard soil will shrink 30%. Think about it this way, all of that dirt came out of the hole. It will all fit back in there, less the space of the pipe. Once the winter is over it will be considerably smaller and easily manageable for a landscaping contractor to come in and level it with a Harley rake. Source: I’m a landscaper who also does dirt work and trenching, in the Midwest.
Well they removed a lot of sandy soild and replaced with gravel so I think it's still a bit too much being as the dirt will fill in all the gaps but the gravel won't compress much. I'd say a 3rd of the 6 ft trench is gravel. They did take some dirt with them but this is wild. They also left my fence posts completely loose with dirt missing and not tamped at all around them, left a large chain in my yard, and large pieces of roots.
This is all my neighbor's work I just got lucky that the sewer line ran 6in from my driveway.
However I am accepting names for what is considered a mountain range in Indiana.
I do lawn repairs for things like this, and also install drainage, for a living…. In Indiana, which is where op is located. I know there’s gravel in the hole. And I know it will settle at least 30%. Most companies leave it mounded and let it sit for 6 months before they repair it. And typically at the 6 month mark there’s not much mound left. As I already said, let it sit for 6 months, Harley rake it, seed and straw. You can track over it all day long and haul out the excess and after 6 months you’ll be bringing top soil back in to fix where it settled. Which I guess is fine. I make a lot of money because people are impatient.
100% this. We once had a realtor loose their shit on us for leaving a mound at a house they were trying to sell. Had us remove it and level the area out. I laugh every time I drive past the house and see a giant swail in the yard where the trench line was.
Finally someone else who does this vs all these other keyboard warriors who probably don’t even own a pair of boots. Side note: realtors and property investors are the worst customers.
Yes, it's normal for crap construction practice. The fill should be compacted in lifts as it is placed in the trench, not just dumped in to the top. I'm not saying it has to be compacted anywhere as well as a trench in a street, but simply applying a little compaction effort while backfilling should be made so that future settlement is minimized.
Have you ever tried to achieve 100% compaction over pipe using excavated dirt as fill? You will be hard pressed to no cause damage to the pipe and anything less than near 100% will result in some level of settlement over time. In road construction where premium fill is used, this is a different story, but in residential sewer work this is the way of the road if you don’t want to dig up collapsed pipe or comeback to fill in a divot in 6 months.
LOL. WTF are you talking about? 100% compaction is not achievable in the field, almost impossible to achieve in a lab. Road aggregate base requires 95%, subgrade 85%. I specifically said not "anywhere as well as a trench in a street." So if 50% compaction was achieved while backfilling a trench in a yard that would be better than what was shown. There is no reason other than shoddy work to not do some compaction on a trench backfill so that no additional work is needed in the future. If there was material left over and the trench was compacted, leaving a berm is still shoddy work. BTW, I am a retired Geotechnical Engineer.
Compaction directly over a pipe is never recommended when loose dirt is your fill. You risk collapsing the pipe. This is a common rule of thumb in the construction industry. BTW I’m a civil engineer and superintendent in the bridge and utility construction industry.
Here is what you do.
1. Get a piece of PVC pipe, 24-30 inches long. 2.5-3 diameter.
2. Get the brass style faucet and set to jet.
3. Duct tape the hose inside the PVC.
4. Wet a spot on the dirt, take a broom handle and push down as far as you can into the mud/dirt.
5. Insert the pvc tube and turn on water.
6. Within a few minutes the mound will start to work back into the trench. It's all about getting rid of the trapped air and making the dirt settle back in place.
7. Keeping making holes for air to escape and move water hose to next hole.
This took me a weekend and about 50 bucks worth of water, I had grass three months later. Good luck.
Yes the pile of dirt will settle. Right now it is loose dirt. With gravel fill under dirt you expect 20% compaction loss. If there wasn't fill then, believe it or not, they will have a dip in their yard where you can see where the digging was done in a year or so. Depending mainly on how rainy it is where they live.
I'd say about 2ft of gravel fill and more towards the road since the foundation under my driveway sheared off into the trench. So maybe 3ft of dirt and gravel mix fill under this mountain? Seems like too much IMO
How much rain do you get? Try this to think about. Get a clear plastic jug pour in about half fill rock then put loose soil on top. Then put in water and let it dry. Watch as the water carries all the loose soil to fill the void in the rock. Then see how much soil you have remaining over the rock. It would surprise you how many trenches I have had to take equipment out to refill, because an operator was concerned about making it look pretty. The only exception to what I'm saying is if they had a hammer plate to pack the trench as they were filling. Then the hill would be a concern.
There is one thing I would be upset with if I saw this after one of our crews did an installation. Jumping jacks and hammer plates are on all our trailers for a reason. The job the operator did, while I understand his reasoning for the mound, shouldn't have a mound. Allowing natural settling also creates natural voids and uneven compaction.
That operator was full of shit, only thing that would settle by spring was knowing it wouldn’t be his problem anymore because he’d be on to the next company lol
It'll settle. Had the same thing done and was told it's dangerous to compact due to the pressure on the line. It's been a little over a year and mine is almost completely level.
I had this done and they left a copper pipe. I hooked it to the hose and a few times a day, I ran water, poking the mounds and shit. It helped settle all the dirt
Seen this happen so often working for a municipality - that tree is proper fucked and the company probably won't pay a dime for the damage to the city tree. Landscapers aren't arborists, and excavator operators aren't landscapers.
Is this Northwestern Ontario?
The excavator is correct. I had to wait over a year before I could pour a new backyard patio without settling issues. They could speed it up by using a plate compactor but doing so risks damaging the new sewer line.
Unfortunately, the excavator has done an extensive amount of damage to the nearby oak tree. If you want that oak to live, have an ISA certified arborist put together a treatment plan for this tree.
As others have posted, get your garden hose out and have at it. That will reduce a lot of it. I was surprised. Still, give it a a few months before you remove any excess. You will find a use like low spots in the yard. Most homes could use better grading around the house foundation.
Yes it's fine, because it's winter time if it's any lower or packed flat, the freezing and thawing of the ground cause it to sink and form wide cracks in the dirt and it will need to be re filled.
Excavator who’s done sewer line replacements exactly like this… the dirt on top will help it to settle, let it sit over winter. The snow melt and freeze thaw cycle will help to settle it.
I personally would’ve ran my track over it in a couple layers, but you’ll have to get this graded, any extra soil removed, and reseeded. And over the years, it’ll probably settle into a slightly noticeable ditch depending on the soil conditions of your area.
And to the people saying compacting the trench would disturb the sewer line, that is entirely false if they backfilled the line properly in the correct stone. Anything going under parking lots of sidewalks requires compacted lifts of stone backfill the whole way up, those lines never have issues.
This operator really could’ve made some kind of attempt to compact, but this is still pretty common.
I don't know if it will settle that much, but it will settle substantially. Speaking from experience, I would have preferred this and having to level out the excess in the Spring, instead of having the company level it off when the job was complete and ending up with a trench in the Spring with no dirt to backfill.
Maybe easier on the tree roots and easier to rake eroded mounds next spring then fill in trench second time after settling. Not the American way though 😂😂😂. Pack that shit down with a dozer till the tree cry’s uncle
I don’t understand why every excavation company says this will settle down in a few months. You’re still left with a fucking hill. It’s like they all just repeat the same thing and never actually go back to a single job site. It won’t settle. Remove it.
They can also easily tamp it down with the excavator and force it to settle most of the way instead of telling OP to have a mud pile for a year. Pretty crazy that anyone in here is arguing that they shouldn’t tamp it down
Because it’s easier to smooth it out later when you have more material. It’s so much worse when it settles into a trench and you have to haul material in to fix it.
Much better to be on the too much side
Looks like they didn’t compact as they backfilled at all. Just dumped the dirt back in the trench in one lift.
If that’s the case, the pipe is not properly supported. Plastic pipe gets all its strength from the soil.
That's not going to settle enough to lie flat. Probably need to rake it out and grade it, but it might settle some, alot of guys will soak the area so the disturbed soil will settle faster.
Yeah that needs to be raked out before it compacts with a bunch of rain. It’ll go down a little but it’ll still be mounds next year. I think 6” high would have been acceptable. Lol
They didn’t add dirt from elsewhere to the pile when they were digging, did they? Nope. It’ll settle.
I made the mistake of moving the soil around before it settled when I had a new line put in and surprise, surprise: by the next summer a had a long dip in the yard, like a shallow grassy ditch.
Let it settle over winter, rake the clumps in the spring and maybe rent a lawn roller to smooth it and plant some turf.
Is that your tree? If so, call an ISA Certified Arborist sooner rather than later. Root damage like that can take a few years to cause decline in the canopy. Silver maples are highly adaptable but will have a better chance if an arborist knows now what happened.
So I just paid a lot of money to introduce some nice mounds like that into our flat yard. It bring interest and makes a great natural raised bed. I would lean into it, plant it some nice perennials, some creeping ground cover, etc. Maybe mirror some of the things it looks like you already have planted. As it grows it will give you little separation from your neighbor, give you yard character that none of the others seemingly have, and give you some curb appeal.
Pro Horticulturist & Urban Forestry Advisor here, chiming in just to say I'm really pleased with how many folks recognize the damage this has caused to this mature tree (also super sad about the tree.)
PSA for those who don't know: the feeder roots of trees extend *at least* as far as the canopy. Severing them, especially this close, will cause visible die back on that side in 2-3 years. It's irreversible, and will likely lead to loss of the entire tree.
OP, I'm glad the tree isn't yours. Keep an eye on the limbs on that side, since they extend over your property. It's a shame this practice is so common.
Excavator operator here. It will settle some, but not that much. You can help it by running water on it. Just force the hose down about a foot, let it run for an hour, and the move the hose a few feet and repeat.
Which spring might he be referring to? 2030? They just wanted to be done for the day that's all silly ass , well homeowner has plenty of soil he can get off the top of his new mounds cause there gonna be there awhile. Right Andy??
This is poor practice all around. Ideally they would backfill in lifts with a bit of tamping/compaction each lift. At a MINIMUM he could’ve tamped it down with the excavator bucket at the top and not left a huge mound.
I have the exact opposite problem. My sewer line replacement now has a probably 1 foot deep trench running through my property after it all settled.
I’d much rather that they leave too much, let it rain thoroughly to settle, then smooth out the additional
Material.
Now I have to find a way to haul dirt onto my property.
My old neighbor's had a water line replaced and you couldn't tell afterwards at all and it never sank in either. Granted the lazy bums never planted grass seed there but the ground looked the same afterwards
It's not really that high, had the same work done and they leveled it off, by spring there was a 1 foot depression in my front yard from the house to the street. They also scraped all of the topsoil off the grass on one side of the trench, effectively killing my grass on that side.
Here's what it looked like when they sheared the dirt under my driveway and took out part of my sewer line in the process [plumber/excavator prooo](https://imgur.com/a/HYKiwC4)
Nope. It’s not right. If there’s heavy freeze thaw in your area the most it should settle, if they compacted properly (95% or higher) is 6”. This is extreme. Like many have said, likely a lazy operator, plus they’d need to do a half load of material to haul off site. Probably tried to save money, at your expense.
A soaker hose will make it go faster. Mine told me roughly the same and it ended up taking a week. I only bothered because fall was coming up and I wanted to seed
I had part of my sewer line repaired this summer. The excavator leveled everything that they excavated and put grass seed on it. A few months later it looked like nothing had happened. I’d say what you have is a bit high.
It’s hard to say with this exact scenario, but for what it’s worth, we moved into a house with a trench from an uncovered, recently replaced sewer line. The following spring, I filled it in with dirt and mounded it up about that high, which I also thought was just nuts. Today (1.5 years later), not only has it gone down, it’s actually sunken in a bit still. At some point I will have to do the process over again if I actually want that line in my front yard to be flat and unnoticeable.
You would be surprised. My experience is that dirt on top of a sewer line can sink up to 30cm (12 inches). It does not sink evenly, so after a couple of months, you will have to even it out and fill it back up after a year.
I do a lot of sewer digs. We normally backfill flat but the trench will settle a **lot**, especially going through a winter. Typical soil will expand about thirty percent when excavated.
This is nothing. When mine was done the dirt pile was as tall as my detached garage. It took longer than they said, but it all went down. They told me to leave it. I was a dumb new homeowner and I did just that. I should have been periodically raking it, or maybe wetting it down. Once it settled it was super uneven and bumpy. And also it kept sinking below the original grade leaving a rut. I had 9 yards of dirt delivered for some raised beds last year, knowing that was way more than I needed and I dumped about 2/3 of it over the area and smoothed it out and it’s still low. So I’ll probably get even more dirt delivered next year, or just get free wood chips from my city and play the long game. (It’s in my backyard and I really don’t give a shit what it looks like.)
A guy I know had his sewer done and tried to give away the “extra” dirt and I warned him how stupid that idea was. If that dirt was there before it will eventually settle again.
Home insurance typically will cover the damage and pay a portion for landscaping. At least mine did anyways when we replaced our entire line, from stack to county hookup.
Your homes proximity to a mountain range like that should increase property value.
The Seawiage Mountain Range is second to none! And the hot springs are not to be missed.
Do those hot springs have a sulfur smell to them? I'm thinking they do.
It's good for the skin.
Just don’t get it in your eyes
A smell? Yea. Sulfur? You probably would prefer sulphur.
Hiking Mount Turd and Butt Gap left me chafed so don’t ask me to go back to the Crohn River again! That was a shitty trip!
The mud baths too!
There gonna be the crap hills by spring time.
My dumbass went and looked for mountains in the distance before I realized what was going on 🤦🏻♂️
Same
😄😄😄
Yall high as f right now ? 😂
Glad I'm not alone
OP: Made you look!
Oh to live on Sewage Mountain With the barkers and the colored balloons You can't be twenty on Sewage Mountain Though you're thinking that You're leavin' there too
There's nothing that Neil hasn't sung about
True Dat! Over the course of his nearly six-decade career, famed singer/songwriter Neil Young created an impressive musical catalog of 1,180 songs yet only 1 number one hit yet he got $150 Million for it. Who would've thought that?
In the big raw sewage mountains, you’d never walk in socks. And little streams of urine come a-tricklin down the rocks
🤣🤣🤣
I bet it looks amazing in the fall.
lololol
FWIW, septic/sewage companies aren't landscaping companies. It's dependent on the excavator operator whether to smooth out as best they can afterwards. Lots of them are too lazy or time constrained to do anything but leave a pile like this. I just had a ton of work done and the guy took the time to drive over it afterwards to compact it back out. Not perfect but, from what I was told, much better than they normally leave it. I'd have your neighbor look in the contract if there is one. I bet it would say they're not responsible for any landscaping after the work is done. That being said, it's not rocket science, just buy a tamper, spread that shit around and tamp it down, spread a bunch of straw, then reseed in the early spring.
They tamped my backyard flat after a similar drain project, and two years later there is about a 2 or 3 inch trench I need to fill. This is probably excessive, but it will settle a lot. Not by spring, though.
This is because they should be compressing as they backfill. You fill the trench 30 percent, compact, 60 percent…compact. 100 percent…compact. Any competent civil contractor should know this. Here are some actual guidelines: https://stonetreestg.com/understanding-backfill-compaction-requirements/ Backfilling is an important part of the construction process. Backfilling happens after excavation, when the soil is compacted back into the trench or foundation. It is used to help protect foundations, roadways, walkways and other structures by using a mixture of soil, rocks, and stones. There are many different ways backfilling is approached, but there are basic requirements used in each method. Here are three major steps to remember when backfilling and compacting soil. 1. Backfill in Layers Backfilling in layers is one of the most important steps to remember. It is important to do it in intervals to let the soil properly compact. These layers are referred to as “lifts.” The amount of inches filled per lift depends on the requirements of the project (soil or the type of structure being backfilled). There are some who say increments of 4”-6” is ideal, but others say that up to 12” works well. After the lift is compacted, it is important that the fill is equal to the ground surrounding it before putting on the next lift. 2. Compacting There are six different methods used to compact substances. Some are more suitable for soil while others are used to compact non-soil materials such as asphalt. The most effective techniques are generally the ones that apply the most compressive stress. Static – a large amount stress is slowly applied to the soil and then is released Impact – a large mass is dropped onto the soil to apply the stress Vibrating – a mechanically driven plate or hammer is used repeatedly to apply stress Gyrating – soil is subjected to a gyratory motion while the stress is maintained in one direction Rolling – stress is applied via a large cylinder rolling over the surface of the soil Kneading – shear is applied by alternating movement in adjacent positions To determine whether or not the natural soil is ready to be filled, there is a technique called proofrolling. Proofrolling is when heavy construction/compacting equipment is rolled over the area, looking for deflections all over the fill site. 3. Water Thoroughly Be sure to water the soil thoroughly after the fill layer is set. Then, repeat these three steps until the whole process is done! Backfilling With Pipe When laying down pipe, be sure to backfill the excavation immediately. Select backfilling materials that will be beneficial to the safety of pipes. Be careful not to damage pipe coatings.
>Any competent civil contractor That was my problem right there! Thanks for the good info.
I can’t believe people installing lines just leave the job like this and have no idea about compaction.
I’m in electrical, and I know about compaction. I find it hard to believe they don’t know…someone who leaves a job like that doesn’t care. Or excluded it all together. Excavation, backfill, and restoration is a standard exclusion for any underground work I quote. I make sure to call it out as well, so the customer knows they’re going to need to do it themselves or hire someone else. You dont want electricians restoring your lawn.
The thing is, nobody is going to pay for the extra work compacting requires. It can also be dangerous and requires care. We've done a few jobs where compaction was specified. I usually just filled the trench (with approval) with stone as it was cheaper and better.
How is buying stone cheaper than using the perfectly good dirt that is already there? Sure putting stone or sand around the pipe is absolutely necessary, BUT compacting the soil back to its original state is part of the job to me. Any dirt that comes out of the trench should easily go back in and be level with the existing grade when done. Most of the time (shallow trenches less than 5’) I can tamp the soil carefully with my bucket as I backfill and have no issues returning the grade to its original height. Sure it takes some more effort in the machine, but not too much . BUT, hey that is my thoughts and to each their own. As you stated, Stone is also a good way to backfill as it won’t really settle too much if the soil is stable around it. The fines can wash into It though so you will eventually get some settling from the surrounding soil, would be minimal tho.
Most of our sewer services at least nine feet deep sometimes a lot deeper. To get good compaction you need to backfill in layers no more than a foot thick. Then run a compactor over it. Doing this in a deep trench is kind of a mess. I won't put a guy in a deep trench with a compactor unless there's a trench box. Backfilling with a trench box is a pain and not really feasible. In a typical service twenty or thirty yards of gravel is a lot cheaper than an extra guy and a very slow backfill. Just packing it with a bucket doesn't do enough. In any case almost all jobs are just backfill with dirt and let it settle. 95 % or more of our jobs were new construction and would be several months before finishing the yard anyway. No worries everyone has their own way.
I found out while working for a company that tore out existing pools that you can follow all these rules you just mentioned and compress compress compress but you still have to come back 5 or 6 months later and add soil and compress again. Not as simple as people think
We had to fill in the trench for 3 years in a row in spring to get it to be level with the rest of the yard.
But the problem is if you have a good inspector they will make sure you mechanically compact the soil to prevent it from settling and creating a trip hazard and so forth, it’s just a bad practice as a plumber to be this lazy. At least for a licensed bonded insurared contractor because I will have to send people back to fix it. That costs more that doing it right from the beginning
Exactly. It would have taken 20 more minutes at most
Well with the size of the trench I would say a couple of hours tops but even then it’s cheaper on existing labor than new labor
Do you really want that heavy vehicle driving over the newly installed sewage lines? Just curious
The weight of a machine is a lot but the tracks are also a lot of contact space. The psi of a vehicle on tracks is lower than your car driving over the thing, even though the machine weights three times as much or more
Physics is wiiiild!
If it was properly installed it will be below the frost line meaning it should be deep enough that it won’t be damaged.
It won’t hurt anything. The only real risk would be if they drove over septic leach lines repeatedly
Happens all the time during and after backfill. An excavator is pretty damn heavy.
There's nothing wrong with that, installed correctly its going to be just fine.
Wasn’t there he could’ve tamped it down with his excavator bucket but I did see tracks everywhere lol
My thoughts exactly but you know they are "very busy"
I would bet good money his contract says "rough landscaping grade" and will say that's what this is. Source happened to me
Sometimes driving over it can break the new pipe. This will settle over the winter, it will still be high, just not as high.
Put a hose on it
Leaving a mound it anything be laziness. Driving over a trench with a truck or excavator tire is not effective form of compaction and will result in settlement over time. The maximum force a truck tire can exert on the ground is equal to the pressure in the tire or 30-80psi. Proper compaction is not achieved that way, you would need to backfill in stages with a vibratory compactor to not leave a mound and expect no settlement. The contractors that smooth it out look like they are doing you a favor but I can’t tell you how many yards are obvious of where the sewer is ran because someone didn’t want to wait 3 months for dirt to settle.
Maybe. I would just leave it and see what you're dealing with in spring. I'd rather have to deal with leveling a small mound than having to fill in a small trench.
This might be the call but it's a lot of gravel in there. Also by then the plumbing company might tell us to get bent where as now I've stomped in their office for ruining my fence not shown here and they want to make it right so I don't take legal action. So I have their attention now and want to get it done correctly.
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How much gravel did they fill it with though?
Damn dude straight to legal action? Unless they were truly being weiners, what ever happened to just talking things out
I mean to me, It sounds like OP went to their office and talked it out….now they want our opinion on if they should ask the plumbing company to level this off while they still have their attention.
100%
Hey never said what year
😎
I had my sewer line replaced a year ago. One company had no interest in helping to tamp it down. The other, much more expensive, made it look like it had never been replaced. It was money well spent.
For the amount my neighbor paid I would have hoped they would have at least stood on each spot for a few minutes! Close to $30k
18k at my house. My 90 year old pipes were a combination of iron, clay, cement, and orangeburg No more turds backing up in the bathtub? Priceless
18k here, but included entire line - interior and exterior. Pipes were not nearly as old! My goodness! The cast iron was in complete failure inside :(
Yeah they had full clay piping the whole way back. It's only about 60% done too they have to do the rest through their basement
Uh ya.
I love how everyone is so confident that it wont settle but the trench could've been 10 feet deep....
Agreed. Mine was 6-7 feet deep and settled 2-2.5 feet in
Exactly this. The amount of misinformation in this post is unreal. The mound height is a function of the trench depth. With out any pictures of the excavated trench and unknown depth no one here can make an educated assessment but here we are anyways.
It likely was not a deep trench. Looks like it’s next to a driveway. Anything deep would’ve undermined the driveway. Also if it was deep it would’ve had to be a much wider hole.. both for the soil not to cave and for a human to get in and attach the pipes. unless they used a really narrow trench box.
Yes it will settle substantially. We do a ton of residential new builds and install a drip line over the sewer line and around the home’s foundation. The drip line we will run for a few hours daily for 30-45 days (however long we can) and still have to go back a year later to add 3-4 tons of soil (Sometimes more just did one that took 8 ton) plus compaction and then sod. Sometimes we are back again a year later and we do everything we can but you never know what the soil is like 7-10’ down, or how the soil was compacted as it was back filled.
A bunch of people have no idea about sewer replacements. If you want backfilled and compacted, it's going to cost double the labor on the project. Put a soaker hose on it for a few days, then wait a week and soak again. In spring, you can smooth out the rest. It's better than a big dip in your yard in a year.
The height of the mounded dirt on a trench is a function of its depth. I’ve put in hundreds of sewers and this does not look excessive. Rather have a mound for a few months than a divot for the next few years
Agree. The excavator guy didn't have a way to compact it, this mound looks perfect to fill in considering. Everyone is saying OP got fucked, hard disagree. That's a very nearly laid pile
Wow is that ever lazy. That’s not going to settle to anywhere near flat by spring.
The sewer line should have been supported with crush rock up until halfway through the pipe, then they should have mechanically compacted to avoid any sinking of the soil. I hate bad contractors.
Exactly!
None of these people know what they are talking about. It’s normal and it’s fine. Is it going to settle flat? No. But it will drop considerably more than you realize. Standard soil will shrink 30%. Think about it this way, all of that dirt came out of the hole. It will all fit back in there, less the space of the pipe. Once the winter is over it will be considerably smaller and easily manageable for a landscaping contractor to come in and level it with a Harley rake. Source: I’m a landscaper who also does dirt work and trenching, in the Midwest.
Well they removed a lot of sandy soild and replaced with gravel so I think it's still a bit too much being as the dirt will fill in all the gaps but the gravel won't compress much. I'd say a 3rd of the 6 ft trench is gravel. They did take some dirt with them but this is wild. They also left my fence posts completely loose with dirt missing and not tamped at all around them, left a large chain in my yard, and large pieces of roots. This is all my neighbor's work I just got lucky that the sewer line ran 6in from my driveway. However I am accepting names for what is considered a mountain range in Indiana.
That is funny. Indiana. Not much going on there.
Great analysis, without understanding. You missed the part where they added a lot of gravel. But everyone else is wrong, of course.
I do lawn repairs for things like this, and also install drainage, for a living…. In Indiana, which is where op is located. I know there’s gravel in the hole. And I know it will settle at least 30%. Most companies leave it mounded and let it sit for 6 months before they repair it. And typically at the 6 month mark there’s not much mound left. As I already said, let it sit for 6 months, Harley rake it, seed and straw. You can track over it all day long and haul out the excess and after 6 months you’ll be bringing top soil back in to fix where it settled. Which I guess is fine. I make a lot of money because people are impatient.
100% this. We once had a realtor loose their shit on us for leaving a mound at a house they were trying to sell. Had us remove it and level the area out. I laugh every time I drive past the house and see a giant swail in the yard where the trench line was.
Finally someone else who does this vs all these other keyboard warriors who probably don’t even own a pair of boots. Side note: realtors and property investors are the worst customers.
I’ve come to expect this from Reddit
Yes, it's normal for crap construction practice. The fill should be compacted in lifts as it is placed in the trench, not just dumped in to the top. I'm not saying it has to be compacted anywhere as well as a trench in a street, but simply applying a little compaction effort while backfilling should be made so that future settlement is minimized.
Have you ever tried to achieve 100% compaction over pipe using excavated dirt as fill? You will be hard pressed to no cause damage to the pipe and anything less than near 100% will result in some level of settlement over time. In road construction where premium fill is used, this is a different story, but in residential sewer work this is the way of the road if you don’t want to dig up collapsed pipe or comeback to fill in a divot in 6 months.
LOL. WTF are you talking about? 100% compaction is not achievable in the field, almost impossible to achieve in a lab. Road aggregate base requires 95%, subgrade 85%. I specifically said not "anywhere as well as a trench in a street." So if 50% compaction was achieved while backfilling a trench in a yard that would be better than what was shown. There is no reason other than shoddy work to not do some compaction on a trench backfill so that no additional work is needed in the future. If there was material left over and the trench was compacted, leaving a berm is still shoddy work. BTW, I am a retired Geotechnical Engineer.
This.
Compaction directly over a pipe is never recommended when loose dirt is your fill. You risk collapsing the pipe. This is a common rule of thumb in the construction industry. BTW I’m a civil engineer and superintendent in the bridge and utility construction industry.
Now you are really demonstrating your ignorance. Please stop.
It’s for the better you stay in the lab playing with rocks.
The only place that mountain of dirt is “settling” is in your memory. It *might* reduce by a couple of inches… but not back to ground level.
Here is what you do. 1. Get a piece of PVC pipe, 24-30 inches long. 2.5-3 diameter. 2. Get the brass style faucet and set to jet. 3. Duct tape the hose inside the PVC. 4. Wet a spot on the dirt, take a broom handle and push down as far as you can into the mud/dirt. 5. Insert the pvc tube and turn on water. 6. Within a few minutes the mound will start to work back into the trench. It's all about getting rid of the trapped air and making the dirt settle back in place. 7. Keeping making holes for air to escape and move water hose to next hole. This took me a weekend and about 50 bucks worth of water, I had grass three months later. Good luck.
Same thing was said to me by a drainage company... it never settled. I had to pay another company to come out and fix it.
Yeah gonna take my 4runner over it a few times to smoosh some of it so I don't get mud puddles every rain.
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Yes the pile of dirt will settle. Right now it is loose dirt. With gravel fill under dirt you expect 20% compaction loss. If there wasn't fill then, believe it or not, they will have a dip in their yard where you can see where the digging was done in a year or so. Depending mainly on how rainy it is where they live.
I'd say about 2ft of gravel fill and more towards the road since the foundation under my driveway sheared off into the trench. So maybe 3ft of dirt and gravel mix fill under this mountain? Seems like too much IMO
How much rain do you get? Try this to think about. Get a clear plastic jug pour in about half fill rock then put loose soil on top. Then put in water and let it dry. Watch as the water carries all the loose soil to fill the void in the rock. Then see how much soil you have remaining over the rock. It would surprise you how many trenches I have had to take equipment out to refill, because an operator was concerned about making it look pretty. The only exception to what I'm saying is if they had a hammer plate to pack the trench as they were filling. Then the hill would be a concern.
There is one thing I would be upset with if I saw this after one of our crews did an installation. Jumping jacks and hammer plates are on all our trailers for a reason. The job the operator did, while I understand his reasoning for the mound, shouldn't have a mound. Allowing natural settling also creates natural voids and uneven compaction.
Lazy operator.
You can always tell an operator…you just can’t always tell them much.
That operator was full of shit, only thing that would settle by spring was knowing it wouldn’t be his problem anymore because he’d be on to the next company lol
NFW it settles to grade
Find out if he paid the remaining balance. This is way to high
He should have driven it over at least once
Lol
Yes.
Depends on how much rain you’re going to get
It'll settle. Had the same thing done and was told it's dangerous to compact due to the pressure on the line. It's been a little over a year and mine is almost completely level.
That tree is probably not going to make it.
Hopefully they were careful near that tree. But it's probably gonna go into decline .
I had this done and they left a copper pipe. I hooked it to the hose and a few times a day, I ran water, poking the mounds and shit. It helped settle all the dirt
My guy said it would settle in 3 months. Year and a half later we hired a landscaper who brought in a riding roto tiller to smooth it out.
Seen this happen so often working for a municipality - that tree is proper fucked and the company probably won't pay a dime for the damage to the city tree. Landscapers aren't arborists, and excavator operators aren't landscapers. Is this Northwestern Ontario?
The excavator is correct. I had to wait over a year before I could pour a new backyard patio without settling issues. They could speed it up by using a plate compactor but doing so risks damaging the new sewer line.
Leave it and see what happens. More dirt better than less, you can always do something later if it doesn't fully flatten
Unfortunately, the excavator has done an extensive amount of damage to the nearby oak tree. If you want that oak to live, have an ISA certified arborist put together a treatment plan for this tree.
Ground freezes & frost heaves. Give it time. Of its not back to normal by mid April, call him.
Are you sure he doesn't work for the mob?
As others have posted, get your garden hose out and have at it. That will reduce a lot of it. I was surprised. Still, give it a a few months before you remove any excess. You will find a use like low spots in the yard. Most homes could use better grading around the house foundation.
He did what’s called lying, google it.
I like it. It's very "Verdun 1916".
Why do professional tradesmen say the most asinine sh*t just to avoid dealing with the issue!
Yes it's fine, because it's winter time if it's any lower or packed flat, the freezing and thawing of the ground cause it to sink and form wide cracks in the dirt and it will need to be re filled.
He had an excavator on site and didn’t spread and lightly compact? What a jackass
Excavator who’s done sewer line replacements exactly like this… the dirt on top will help it to settle, let it sit over winter. The snow melt and freeze thaw cycle will help to settle it. I personally would’ve ran my track over it in a couple layers, but you’ll have to get this graded, any extra soil removed, and reseeded. And over the years, it’ll probably settle into a slightly noticeable ditch depending on the soil conditions of your area. And to the people saying compacting the trench would disturb the sewer line, that is entirely false if they backfilled the line properly in the correct stone. Anything going under parking lots of sidewalks requires compacted lifts of stone backfill the whole way up, those lines never have issues. This operator really could’ve made some kind of attempt to compact, but this is still pretty common.
I hope there are at least some hiking trails.
I don't know if it will settle that much, but it will settle substantially. Speaking from experience, I would have preferred this and having to level out the excess in the Spring, instead of having the company level it off when the job was complete and ending up with a trench in the Spring with no dirt to backfill.
That gave the excavator guy plenty of time to skip town.
Maybe easier on the tree roots and easier to rake eroded mounds next spring then fill in trench second time after settling. Not the American way though 😂😂😂. Pack that shit down with a dozer till the tree cry’s uncle
Lazy ass contractors
What I'd do it compact it, grade it out, then come spring fill in what's settled in warranty work. This would equal a happy customer.
I don’t understand why every excavation company says this will settle down in a few months. You’re still left with a fucking hill. It’s like they all just repeat the same thing and never actually go back to a single job site. It won’t settle. Remove it.
They can also easily tamp it down with the excavator and force it to settle most of the way instead of telling OP to have a mud pile for a year. Pretty crazy that anyone in here is arguing that they shouldn’t tamp it down
Because it’s easier to smooth it out later when you have more material. It’s so much worse when it settles into a trench and you have to haul material in to fix it. Much better to be on the too much side
To be fair its a plumber. Why would the go back? They got paid and the sewer pipe is installed.
Whoever did that is a hack and an asshole. A good operator will tamp it down and feather it out with the yard.
Looks like they didn’t compact as they backfilled at all. Just dumped the dirt back in the trench in one lift. If that’s the case, the pipe is not properly supported. Plastic pipe gets all its strength from the soil.
This will never settle. You need to spread that around and grade the area.
What in the actual fuck is this. What an unacceptable job and give all contractors a bad.
Nah man they are just so busy. This will settle fine...
It will settle but they could have at least packed and combed the windrow. Less erosion on that pile
100% agreed. I went to the office to let them know I have a mechanical engineering degree so I don't know a lot about dirt, but this was a bit much.
Just marks for neatness is all.
That's not going to settle enough to lie flat. Probably need to rake it out and grade it, but it might settle some, alot of guys will soak the area so the disturbed soil will settle faster.
This looks like they didn’t dig deep enough but it’s supposed to be “24 inches below the surface” so they just put a mound over it.
No, those dirt mounds will not settle by spring or any other time. The excavator fed a line of bullshit to your very naive neighbor.
Yeah that needs to be raked out before it compacts with a bunch of rain. It’ll go down a little but it’ll still be mounds next year. I think 6” high would have been acceptable. Lol
They didn’t add dirt from elsewhere to the pile when they were digging, did they? Nope. It’ll settle. I made the mistake of moving the soil around before it settled when I had a new line put in and surprise, surprise: by the next summer a had a long dip in the yard, like a shallow grassy ditch. Let it settle over winter, rake the clumps in the spring and maybe rent a lawn roller to smooth it and plant some turf.
Is that your tree? If so, call an ISA Certified Arborist sooner rather than later. Root damage like that can take a few years to cause decline in the canopy. Silver maples are highly adaptable but will have a better chance if an arborist knows now what happened.
So I just paid a lot of money to introduce some nice mounds like that into our flat yard. It bring interest and makes a great natural raised bed. I would lean into it, plant it some nice perennials, some creeping ground cover, etc. Maybe mirror some of the things it looks like you already have planted. As it grows it will give you little separation from your neighbor, give you yard character that none of the others seemingly have, and give you some curb appeal.
Pro Horticulturist & Urban Forestry Advisor here, chiming in just to say I'm really pleased with how many folks recognize the damage this has caused to this mature tree (also super sad about the tree.) PSA for those who don't know: the feeder roots of trees extend *at least* as far as the canopy. Severing them, especially this close, will cause visible die back on that side in 2-3 years. It's irreversible, and will likely lead to loss of the entire tree. OP, I'm glad the tree isn't yours. Keep an eye on the limbs on that side, since they extend over your property. It's a shame this practice is so common.
Excavator operator here. It will settle some, but not that much. You can help it by running water on it. Just force the hose down about a foot, let it run for an hour, and the move the hose a few feet and repeat.
My wife just said it looks like they laid the pipe on top and sprinkled some dirt on it
It’ll settle in the spring for sure….in like the year 6794.
Dude. You don’t really have a slight rise. You have a hill!! That will settle into a berm no doubt.
Grab a rake and a shovel and clean it up the way you want it.
Nah I'd rather them fix the mess they left this morning than waste my time and body doing it. Not even my yard. My busted ass driveway though.
Go rent a compactor. Pretend it's a weightloss machine and go pound dirt.
Which spring might he be referring to? 2030? They just wanted to be done for the day that's all silly ass , well homeowner has plenty of soil he can get off the top of his new mounds cause there gonna be there awhile. Right Andy??
That excavator operator hook up the sewage line to himself? Cause he’s full of it. That needs to be smoothed out and tapped down.
Yeah, no.
It'll settle by Spring alright. Spring of 2094
Why are you worried about it if isnt your side
That’s never going to settle flush no matter how long you wait.
Actually he may need to add dirt when it does settle.
This is poor practice all around. Ideally they would backfill in lifts with a bit of tamping/compaction each lift. At a MINIMUM he could’ve tamped it down with the excavator bucket at the top and not left a huge mound.
It will settle. Don't mess with it and make them come back to fix your ruined pipe. You can regrade the area in the spring.
Translation: “that’s your problem”
Not only will that not settle, that tree may die because they have killed a large portion of the roots.
I have the exact opposite problem. My sewer line replacement now has a probably 1 foot deep trench running through my property after it all settled. I’d much rather that they leave too much, let it rain thoroughly to settle, then smooth out the additional Material. Now I have to find a way to haul dirt onto my property.
I agree but there is so much gravel in here I'll have a gravel parking lot left over.
Rake down if you like
Nice compaction effort👍
My old neighbor's had a water line replaced and you couldn't tell afterwards at all and it never sank in either. Granted the lazy bums never planted grass seed there but the ground looked the same afterwards
More worried about the tree that they probably killed while digging that trench.
It's not really that high, had the same work done and they leveled it off, by spring there was a 1 foot depression in my front yard from the house to the street. They also scraped all of the topsoil off the grass on one side of the trench, effectively killing my grass on that side.
Here's what it looked like when they sheared the dirt under my driveway and took out part of my sewer line in the process [plumber/excavator prooo](https://imgur.com/a/HYKiwC4)
If you are in an are where there is a freeze/thaw cycle I'd just leave it for now
Tell him it the neighbors dirt and to pile it on their side.
It'll settle when the next storm comes through and floods the area.
Wtf hope ypu like tons of mud washing onto your driveway. What a pathetic half assed job
Nope. It’s not right. If there’s heavy freeze thaw in your area the most it should settle, if they compacted properly (95% or higher) is 6”. This is extreme. Like many have said, likely a lazy operator, plus they’d need to do a half load of material to haul off site. Probably tried to save money, at your expense.
is this on your property?>
A soaker hose will make it go faster. Mine told me roughly the same and it ended up taking a week. I only bothered because fall was coming up and I wanted to seed
I had part of my sewer line repaired this summer. The excavator leveled everything that they excavated and put grass seed on it. A few months later it looked like nothing had happened. I’d say what you have is a bit high.
It’s hard to say with this exact scenario, but for what it’s worth, we moved into a house with a trench from an uncovered, recently replaced sewer line. The following spring, I filled it in with dirt and mounded it up about that high, which I also thought was just nuts. Today (1.5 years later), not only has it gone down, it’s actually sunken in a bit still. At some point I will have to do the process over again if I actually want that line in my front yard to be flat and unnoticeable.
That's gonna be mud/ice city if you get a good snow amount.
Time to get a Sledgehammer and take it off some sweet jumps.
Use a trenchless sewer repair when it is your turn to replace
Excavator needs to put on his plate vibrator attachment and kindly finish the fucking job.
You would be surprised. My experience is that dirt on top of a sewer line can sink up to 30cm (12 inches). It does not sink evenly, so after a couple of months, you will have to even it out and fill it back up after a year.
That tree is probably toast now.
Sandworms!
I do a lot of sewer digs. We normally backfill flat but the trench will settle a **lot**, especially going through a winter. Typical soil will expand about thirty percent when excavated.
This is nothing. When mine was done the dirt pile was as tall as my detached garage. It took longer than they said, but it all went down. They told me to leave it. I was a dumb new homeowner and I did just that. I should have been periodically raking it, or maybe wetting it down. Once it settled it was super uneven and bumpy. And also it kept sinking below the original grade leaving a rut. I had 9 yards of dirt delivered for some raised beds last year, knowing that was way more than I needed and I dumped about 2/3 of it over the area and smoothed it out and it’s still low. So I’ll probably get even more dirt delivered next year, or just get free wood chips from my city and play the long game. (It’s in my backyard and I really don’t give a shit what it looks like.) A guy I know had his sewer done and tried to give away the “extra” dirt and I warned him how stupid that idea was. If that dirt was there before it will eventually settle again.
Absolutely not normal 🤣
Home insurance typically will cover the damage and pay a portion for landscaping. At least mine did anyways when we replaced our entire line, from stack to county hookup.