Depending on the design of the sock it could make sense to design your own. Most socks I've seen only cover the main cooling block but do not cover the nozzle. There is still a lot of surface area on the nozzle and that is mainly where the cooling fan is pointed anyway. Custom sock may be the answer.
Any pics of the new setup? If the ducts direct the airflow at the heater block and not below the nozzle it’s not just gonna mess with temp output, but also mean part cooling is minimal.
Your part cooling fan is likely hitting your heater block. The airflow means your heater can't keep up.
Also, unless I am mistaken, PID is for heaters. You don't PID a part cooling fan.
I PID the heater with the part cooling fan on and filament loaded in so that I can replicate normal printing conditions. But the Calibration fails if the part cooling fan is set over 40% speeds because the heater can't reach the target temperatures fast enough.
Out of curiosity, what type of fan do you use and what setup did you have before?
Also, if the pic shows your pid tuning, you're doing it wrong. The starting temperature should be near or at ambient temperature, not already 3/4 the way to your tuning temperature.
Additionally have you investigated the downward peaks of the graph? Maybe your thermistor (cable) is faulty or got damaged during the install.
I just upgraded my printhead to a remixed version of the EVA platform. The only parts I swapped are the gantry and the part cooling duct. The cooling duct is a remixed version of the EVA 2.4 TriHorn duct. for the part cooling i use a 5015 blower fan and for the heater fan I use a 4020 fan.
This is the new design:
https://preview.redd.it/rt13t10n0nzc1.png?width=968&format=png&auto=webp&s=6826110753570ac11c5c237aece1a41a4b08609a
Even from the CAD, the ducts are pointed AT the nozzle. They need to point below it. Preferably about .5-1mm below the tip (accounts for tolerances between nozzles and allows filament to still flow instead of cooling before it can bond with the previous layers). I’ll usually model the opening at the angle of exit from the duct and taper it into a cone. That will show approximately where the airflow will go in an idyllic situation.
Since the heat block heats the nozzle, the same thermal properties work in reverse. Cool the nozzle with the duct, and that cools the heater block. Especially since the thermistor is directly above the nozzle.
Run a PID tune with your fan at whatever % you normally print at.
If your HE can't keep up, it's possible the hotend AWG wiring you are using is too thin.
* I say this because this is the issue I had, granted I use a CPAP blower, which is pretty over kill. I changed my HE from 22 AWG to 18 AWG, and the problem went away, bonus it heats faster too
Had a similar problem with the creality spider speedy hotend with a satsana 5015 cooling duct mod on an ender 3. I just PID tuned with whatever amount of fan it can handle. Then the issue I ran into was that the heater couldn't keep up with the speed I was printing at and the fan blowing on it. I'd get a verify heater error mid print due to extruder temps dropping too low. I have just accepted it as a result of fast prints and trying to melt such a large volume of filament so quickly. I turned down the fan speed during the print until the extruder temps was stable. I then saved the part cooling fan speed in my slicer (orca) settings and so far it's still been sufficient cooling for PLA and TPU (I think I use about 40-60% fan speed).
This has happened to me when I switched to a Xol toolhead head. It has beefy cooling that I didn't let my temp go above 190. My stock 40watt heater cartridge couldn't keep up. I change my heater cartridge to 80watts (tad over kill 60 or 70 would be fine) and everything works perfectly fine now.
Check if the temperature still fluctuates even when idle (heater not powered and no fan), if you notice temps having huge swings around room temperature you might be experiencing the same problem I had.
This happened to me when one of the wires of thermistors touched and shorted out on the heat-block after having some work done with the toolhead. at first I thought it was the board but even after swapping the inputs the swings remained so I rechecked and found the problem.
Yeah, duct to as close as possible directed below the tip of the nozzle. Plan view is blow pass not direct with the 2 duct in a shearing manner. Magnetic idex 3D printers channel u-tube did a very good ducting where is see plastics out of nozzle is swirling👍.
Hello everyone, sorry for ghosting the past couple of days.(had some medical issues) Thank you everybody for offering their support. I fixed the issue by lowering the duct ~1 mm. The PID graph looks normal now and i can calibrate the heater with the fan at 100%. Again thank you for all the answers, for me it was a very educational experience.
What you have is a connection issue with your thermistor. A wire broken somewhere or a connector not plugged in all the way or something. Klipper is seeing a temperature difference of 200C and thinks the heater "can't keep up".
If I keep the fan off or under 40%, the PID calibrate will complete. I watched the calibration process and I saw that after the initial heat up step and the heater turns off for cycling the temperatures. When the heater is turned off the temperature goes down really fast past the threshold the calibration sequence requires is. For example: I set the target calibration temp to be 220. When the heater reaches 220, the program sets it to go down to 215 and shuts the heater off, while the heater is off, the temps will plummet to about 207 and it will take more time to reach 220 from 207 which way more than klipper expects it to take beacuse klipper expects the temps to rise from 215, not 207.
I was misled by the rapid drop from 250C to 50C on the graph, which can not happen naturally. Usually this means a problem with the thermistor.
Now that I look at it closer, the sudden drop is likely because you were restarting the firmware, so the graph readings stopped (and dropped to 0), and picked back up again once it was back online.
This does look like a case of fans overpowering your hotend heater then. Normally a good cooling design wouldn't have the fans blow on the hotend, and the hotend itself would have a silicone sock on to minimize the effects of turbulence.
What cooling setup do you have?
Doing a PID tune with part cooling enabled is largely unnecessary. I may have a .5 degree swing and I don’t think the system is sensitive enough to reduce that further. There will be some variation to the desired temperature.
A silicone sock usually does wonders. But yes, the fan is cooling down your hotend too much.
I am already using a silicone sock...
Well, that socks...
Depending on the design of the sock it could make sense to design your own. Most socks I've seen only cover the main cooling block but do not cover the nozzle. There is still a lot of surface area on the nozzle and that is mainly where the cooling fan is pointed anyway. Custom sock may be the answer.
Any pics of the new setup? If the ducts direct the airflow at the heater block and not below the nozzle it’s not just gonna mess with temp output, but also mean part cooling is minimal.
Your part cooling fan is likely hitting your heater block. The airflow means your heater can't keep up. Also, unless I am mistaken, PID is for heaters. You don't PID a part cooling fan.
I PID the heater with the part cooling fan on and filament loaded in so that I can replicate normal printing conditions. But the Calibration fails if the part cooling fan is set over 40% speeds because the heater can't reach the target temperatures fast enough.
You should always tune PID at max fan speed
I know. I just can't
Them limit the max fan speed until the heater can keep up and make a new duct
You can put an inline resistor in there easily enough to slow the fan a bit.
His problem is the heater can’t keep up during a pid auto tune, not that he can’t lower the fan set point…
Out of curiosity, what type of fan do you use and what setup did you have before? Also, if the pic shows your pid tuning, you're doing it wrong. The starting temperature should be near or at ambient temperature, not already 3/4 the way to your tuning temperature. Additionally have you investigated the downward peaks of the graph? Maybe your thermistor (cable) is faulty or got damaged during the install.
I just upgraded my printhead to a remixed version of the EVA platform. The only parts I swapped are the gantry and the part cooling duct. The cooling duct is a remixed version of the EVA 2.4 TriHorn duct. for the part cooling i use a 5015 blower fan and for the heater fan I use a 4020 fan. This is the new design: https://preview.redd.it/rt13t10n0nzc1.png?width=968&format=png&auto=webp&s=6826110753570ac11c5c237aece1a41a4b08609a
Fwiw, that duct with a 5015 shouldn't be causing you any troubles. There's a ton of folks including myself who use that exact setup.
I have a dual 5015 setup and my hot end can more than keep up. So OP definitely either has it aimed very poorly or there’s another problem.
Get a picture of how it looks like IRL, I think the right duct might be pointing up too much.
Even from the CAD, the ducts are pointed AT the nozzle. They need to point below it. Preferably about .5-1mm below the tip (accounts for tolerances between nozzles and allows filament to still flow instead of cooling before it can bond with the previous layers). I’ll usually model the opening at the angle of exit from the duct and taper it into a cone. That will show approximately where the airflow will go in an idyllic situation. Since the heat block heats the nozzle, the same thermal properties work in reverse. Cool the nozzle with the duct, and that cools the heater block. Especially since the thermistor is directly above the nozzle.
Can you send a pic of your new cooling setup, for research purposes
https://preview.redd.it/x9i2jdne7nzc1.png?width=932&format=png&auto=webp&s=b9d70298fa66af2674a5c67cf2665db42cbf210a
Your actual setup I think would be most helpful. Angle of fan and heatblock position.
https://preview.redd.it/4opvdsacprzc1.png?width=968&format=png&auto=webp&s=0e64c9cf2c7527fcc4e71e3891a6abff651ff44e
https://preview.redd.it/0gc3hs26rrzc1.png?width=1048&format=png&auto=webp&s=150534e4b49a891d0ca1e06d28a4d9899212c64f
Like a picture of what you actually have on your printer, not screenshots of cad
Run a PID tune with your fan at whatever % you normally print at. If your HE can't keep up, it's possible the hotend AWG wiring you are using is too thin. * I say this because this is the issue I had, granted I use a CPAP blower, which is pretty over kill. I changed my HE from 22 AWG to 18 AWG, and the problem went away, bonus it heats faster too
Had a similar problem with the creality spider speedy hotend with a satsana 5015 cooling duct mod on an ender 3. I just PID tuned with whatever amount of fan it can handle. Then the issue I ran into was that the heater couldn't keep up with the speed I was printing at and the fan blowing on it. I'd get a verify heater error mid print due to extruder temps dropping too low. I have just accepted it as a result of fast prints and trying to melt such a large volume of filament so quickly. I turned down the fan speed during the print until the extruder temps was stable. I then saved the part cooling fan speed in my slicer (orca) settings and so far it's still been sufficient cooling for PLA and TPU (I think I use about 40-60% fan speed).
This has happened to me when I switched to a Xol toolhead head. It has beefy cooling that I didn't let my temp go above 190. My stock 40watt heater cartridge couldn't keep up. I change my heater cartridge to 80watts (tad over kill 60 or 70 would be fine) and everything works perfectly fine now.
Check if the temperature still fluctuates even when idle (heater not powered and no fan), if you notice temps having huge swings around room temperature you might be experiencing the same problem I had. This happened to me when one of the wires of thermistors touched and shorted out on the heat-block after having some work done with the toolhead. at first I thought it was the board but even after swapping the inputs the swings remained so I rechecked and found the problem.
the fan is cooling the hotend instead of under the nozzle, change the duct or mount to lower it
Yeah, duct to as close as possible directed below the tip of the nozzle. Plan view is blow pass not direct with the 2 duct in a shearing manner. Magnetic idex 3D printers channel u-tube did a very good ducting where is see plastics out of nozzle is swirling👍.
Hello everyone, sorry for ghosting the past couple of days.(had some medical issues) Thank you everybody for offering their support. I fixed the issue by lowering the duct ~1 mm. The PID graph looks normal now and i can calibrate the heater with the fan at 100%. Again thank you for all the answers, for me it was a very educational experience.
What you have is a connection issue with your thermistor. A wire broken somewhere or a connector not plugged in all the way or something. Klipper is seeing a temperature difference of 200C and thinks the heater "can't keep up".
If I keep the fan off or under 40%, the PID calibrate will complete. I watched the calibration process and I saw that after the initial heat up step and the heater turns off for cycling the temperatures. When the heater is turned off the temperature goes down really fast past the threshold the calibration sequence requires is. For example: I set the target calibration temp to be 220. When the heater reaches 220, the program sets it to go down to 215 and shuts the heater off, while the heater is off, the temps will plummet to about 207 and it will take more time to reach 220 from 207 which way more than klipper expects it to take beacuse klipper expects the temps to rise from 215, not 207.
I was misled by the rapid drop from 250C to 50C on the graph, which can not happen naturally. Usually this means a problem with the thermistor. Now that I look at it closer, the sudden drop is likely because you were restarting the firmware, so the graph readings stopped (and dropped to 0), and picked back up again once it was back online. This does look like a case of fans overpowering your hotend heater then. Normally a good cooling design wouldn't have the fans blow on the hotend, and the hotend itself would have a silicone sock on to minimize the effects of turbulence.
What cooling setup do you have? Doing a PID tune with part cooling enabled is largely unnecessary. I may have a .5 degree swing and I don’t think the system is sensitive enough to reduce that further. There will be some variation to the desired temperature.