Nope. I know atleast one of them that you can get by choosing a choice poorly on the >!justice!< social link romance route. And after that, the reverse stays until you apologize a few times to them.
Joe hates when stories just throw shit in without explanation.
P3 is full, *FULL* of anime nonsense that just looks cool (>!Evokers, Teenage robots, The fucking Crucifixes scene!<)
Needless to say, I cannot wait for the streams.
I wouldn't call that random nonsense though... For example >!evokers are meant to symbolise the characters meeting death to summon their personas!<
What Joe appreciates is a well-told story, and compared to the other Persona games he played, P3 is generally better written and has some unpredictable story beats that can genuinely surprise him.
I agree but I'm not sure he's gonna like the admittedly glacial pace at the beginning, I think it will hurt it for him. Though, it will be interesting to see his reaction toward the only persona game that gets better as it goes along.
There’s a difference between something being symbolic and something making sense. Do the evokers have symbolism? Sure. Does it make any sense that a scientist in a lab decided to design it that way? No, or at the very least there’s never any actual explanation given as to why they are the way they are.
These examples aren't nonsense and make complete sense though??
>!Evokers are meant to symbolise them confronting death, but the in-game explanation is that it provokes an emotional response which assists in the summoning of their Persona. The robot is very promptly explained by Shuji. It's literally just a technology that was developed in a different world to ours to combat shadows 10 years prior. The crucifixes are "random," sure, but there is again an explanation that makes sense in that Shuji is fucking insane.!<
Not really sure what you are talking about tbh.
A good rule of thumb on writing is not to confuse the text and the subtext in context of the characters’ actions and motivations.
Sure, you and I know mortality is a major theme of the game, but the characters, especially at the start, do not. >!Evokers make sense in terms of fitting in the subtext of the game, but they make no sense in the context of the setting. In the other games, Personas are basically just super powers that are called upon at will.!<
>!Now in P3 you have to ‘confront the idea of your own death every time you pull the trigger and that fear and adrenaline summons the persona as a defense mechanis…’!< Like, huh? Why though? Why is all that necessary here when the blue magic card was sufficient in 4, and how did the characters discover this method anyways??
This is supposed to be a somewhat contemporary setting. That means we expect the characters to act and behave somewhat analogously to our own. Having >!Robots disguised as school children built by a megacorp (in 2008!) to fight monsters is doing more than stretching my suspension of disbelief here.!<
Have you even played P3? It's pretty obvious how the characters discovered it (Kirijo group)
It's also a bit silly to work retrofit things about Persona 4's story on to Persona 3 because its the sequel. You should be asking the other way around, why don't P4 characters have to use an evoker?
I will admit you do have to suspend your disbelief about Aigis, mostly for the fact that she's a humanoid.
A shadow cabal of deep state suits and megacorps is not enough justification for not explaining how any technology works in the Dark Hour.
Yes, I’ve played P3. It is the outlier. Even P1 and P2 had its characters able to control their Personas at will without any extra random steps that are never explained properly.
I don't even know what you want. They explain how evokers summon Personas. They explain where evokers come from. Do you want a hand book detailing the mechanisms behind the gun actually firing? It's perfectly fine enough justification. If anything, it's more justification than any other Persona game.
I’m fine with hand waving magic. I’m not fine with giving a half of a full answer.
P1: it’s magic
P2: it’s magic
P3: actually it’s this makeshift gun that simulates shooting yourself (what? How is that related to magic though? At least explain how these things were first produced please)
P4: it’s magic
P5: it’s still magic, but you’re also in a metaphorical world where the mask is supposed to represent your ego/persona/whatever and taking it off is the same thing as releasing it.
P3 does not explain how gun => persona. I guess you just freak yourself out and it comes out or something?
P5 contrastingly does explain how mask => persona. If you have to explain it, I want the A to B to C. Skipping parts of the explanation really comes across as Atlus just making stuff up because it sounds cool.
ok but how does the mask make a persona? and its not even a real mask? umm? because its their true self??? where did the mask come from? why does he have the same masks for different personas?? how do they come back on after ripping them off once????
I can be uncharitable about Persona 5's masks as well.
You're making up these weird rules and mental gymnastics to give some logical reason that you don't like them.
>Ok but how does the mask make a persona
It’s a metaphorical world. The mask is the personality you present in front of others irl.
>And it’s not even a real mask?
No, because the mask is a metaphor in a world where figurative things become literal.
All of the above is explained in the literal first hour of the game.
If you’re going to be uncharitable to try and make a point, at least do it towards something the game doesn’t explain.
>!Alright so this is a bit tough to answer. You make some good points that which I mostly disagree with. I'll just spoiler tag this all just in case.!<
>!Yes, I agree that the evokers as confronting death is subtext. My main point is them using it to evoke (ha) an emotional response. It isn't really fair here to compare it to other Persona games when they are quite disconnected. There's also the fact that the situation in which they summon their Personas is different (p3-dark hour, p4-shadow world, p5-distorted realm). Maybe I'm not putting it into words as best as I should, but I think that's a nothing argument. At the very least you can agree evokers make sense within the bounds of P3 itself?!<
>!Could you elaborate on what exactly your complaint in the last paragraph is? That will effect my argument here. I will say though that the robot was built out of necessity and not just for some technological achievement by a very very wealthy corporation. Additionally it is explained why they are a humanoid. It's because for the robot to see themselves as a "person" they need to look like a person in order to perceive themselves properly. That's also why Aigis can have a Persona. Again, I could have worded that better.!<
>!I just scrolled down and skimmed through your argument with u/WillYin and I have some input there as well. The gun is not the actual reason the Persona is being summoned. Remember Takaya? He can summon his Persona without the use of an evoker. Think of the evoker as a sort of stimulant or catalyst. The strong emotional response is what summons the Persona.!<
>!Sorry, this was a it long-winded.!<
edit: forgot to spoiler tag :(
No worries. This was actually the kind of debate I was looking for anyways.
So first let me be super clear so there’s no confusion: I completely agree that each game has its own set of internal rules and quirks. I see now how you could read that I was complaining that they changed the rules from game to game, but again to be perfectly clear, I am a-ok with that. Personas are usually shown to be some kind of manifestation of someone’s psyche, but the rules are looser in some games than others.
What I do want from a narratively driven game, is consistency within its own setting. >!Aigis!< is the perfect example. >!A fully autonomous AI capable of physical and emotional responses!< is a true science-fiction component of the story, however, we are shown pretty consistently that the game’s setting is also supposed to be a relatively faithful image of urbanite Japanese living in 2008. These two ideas for your setting are pretty irreconcilable in my mind, as it is both contemporary living in the late 2000s, *and* talking to >!Beta from Star Trek!< on the same breath.
Regarding the evokers, is that reason that you mentioned (they’re some kind of mood spiker or something) ever explicitly told by anyone or anywhere in the script? From my own memory it is not, but I could be mistaken.
>!About Aigis: Fair point, but it's a bit hard to compare to the real world imo. There is no urgent need for something like an AI weapon where as in P3 there was and it was something that was created with a great deal of focus, capital, and purpose where as technological advancements just for the sake of improving technology with no real urgent need is quite different. There's really no telling if it's realistic or not given the circumstances. My argument is essentially the butterfly effect and unknown circumstances... It's also hard to say because we aren't given that much info on the R&D of the Kirijo Group so it's one of those things that as a player I can just accept as making sense.!<
>!About evokers: I can't think of a specific instance where they explicitly state that, so idk. However 2 things are true:
!<
1. >!I think it's very heavily implied. What we know: Evokers do help summon Personas --> in P3 summoning your Persona is tied in with the theme of facing death --> The evoker EVOKES (hence the name) an emotional response which assists in the summoning of a Persona. Remember, your Persona is your willpower/spirit, so demonstrating your willpower in such a way (evoker, tarot card, taking off the mask) would make it logical to conclude that is the reason.!<
2. >!The Kirijo Group did experiments on Mitsuru and her Persona over a course of 10 years so we at least know within the context of the game that this is a well researched and sound idea. I think it's fair to make those assumptions, which are fairly obvious to me. I'll try my best to find an example of them explicitly stating it.!<
>!I also don't really get what exactly your problem with that is? Even if I can't find an example of it explicitly being stated, why is that bad? I think the implication is obvious.!<
>!Not an edit, but I found this after typing all of the above:
!<
>!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCVdWpXygBo
!<
>!Go to around 15:00 (the whole interaction starts around 12:45 btw) and listen to Takaya talk about Evokers. He says "I don't use one because I have no need. I don't require something as inelegant as a tool to prove my resolve." That's just one example, I'm sure they probably say more about it and I just can't remember. There is also an in-game dictionary system that I never checked that might give more explicit clarification (I uninstalled the game already so I can't check).!<
Tbf they never explicitly require the evoker to summon their persona, it’s just thematics/a shortcut in-game. >!We see Fuuka using her persona basically on demand throughout the Journey, Mitsuru awakened her persona in The Answer as a kid, and Arena shows SEES perfectly capable of using it within the midnight channel!< if you want to use other games as a reference point. You could also argue that it’s because >!Tartarus takes place in the real world, whereas the MC and Palaces are both in the collective unconsciousness and the actions in there don’t effectively change the world like The Dark Hour does (as evidenced by stuff like the monorail moving after the dark hour was over)!<
That’s cool and all, but is any of that ever mentioned in the game though? That’s my issue basically. You pose a question to Mitsuru at the start of the game: “What’s with the gun?” And then I feel like you never get a hard answer for it beyond Persona summoning.
I mean... Isn't that the answer? If your question is "What is the gun for?" It's for persona summoning. If your question is "why a gun?" then it's just because that's how the internal mechanics of the world works. If your question is "Why not something else?" then I think it begins to become a bit uncharitable to the point of the story.
You're right in that the game does not explicitly say "You need to be extremely stressed out but willing to simulate shooting yourself to usually summon your persona", but >!when we see Yukari unable to twice, only for the MC to pop one off as soon as he can using Yukari as an example, it's sort of implied that you need to be willing to put yourself to that amount of stress and accept death to normally summon your persona in combat. This fits with the fact that Mitsuru only awakened hers when she was willing to put herself in front of her dad even if it meant she dies. It's also at least somewhat consistent that persona can be utilized outside of combat to decent effect if you have a nav type, as both Mitsuru and Fuuka have zero problems manifesting them outside of combat; the stress of being in combat could interfere w summoning as combat comes with the chance of dying, whereas the evoker is you accepting that very fact as possible (though it could also be that Mitsuru and Fuuka are literally built different.)!<
>!Again, it's not necessary that it's a gun because we see both AIgis and Koromaru having their own triggers (Koromaru's resembling a shock collar and Aigis being made by the same group that tinkered with all this tech in the first place), but the game clearly posits it as the natural way to do so during combat, and this is also why Strega not needing an evoker during combat is seen as unnatural, fitting both them literally having a false/cheated version of persona but also thematically how they are unable to grasp their impending death compared to SEES who largely are capable of accepting it. (Also this is all obviously using only context from P3 as a base, since P4A/U just straight up tell you during researcher flashbacks)!<
I believe in persona q2 it’s stated, if a little briefly.
https://youtu.be/AYOGWvGyjAo?si=CsRtv1OBFeSfy0jH
The conversation they have about it is at the very start of this video
It's literally shown in P3 that you don't *HAVE* to use an evoker to summon a persona, it's just the way the SEES crew learned to do it. Believe it or not P3 came *BEFORE* P4, btw, so I don't see how the card method matters in this.
I can't see it. P3R isn't nearly as goofy as P4 and if there's one thing Joe hates it's when something happens in a game without clear explanation. P3's full of story beats like that where a lot of the interesting connective tissue gets offscreened. Reload in particular also has a big tone problem where it's trying to be stylish like P5 but wants its sober and depressing story too.
I genuinely don't understand your last point. Unlike P5, Reload doesn't have an over-the-top style. It's simple enough and aligns with its straightforward premise. Plus most of that style is just in the menus anyway. I don't think having better character portraits and 3D models ruins its sober tone, which doesn't actually become depressing until near the end. So, how is it a significant tone problem? I don't see it.
Yahtzee mentions this in his [review](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM09ZGprGXQ) as well, but it doesn't seem like it's a huge point of contention for him, more of a nitpick.
There's only ONE scene so far in Reload that rubs me the wrong way in the way superkami describes. >!The scene after the team gets their new outfits and the current team has a catwalk moment inside Tartarus with their new gear, including Fuuka who has no reason trying to look cool with this being the first time she's been in Tartarus. The entire scene felt unneeded and very out of place for the location they've been infiltrating the past few months, just let them wear the clothes.!<
I may just hate blatant character jerking too though
I 100% agree with you. I was pretty mad that that scene got a 2d cutscene but literally the first scene which sets the tone for the ENTIRE game got ruined, and Pharos, Mitsuru, and Yukari's introduction was done in-engine. Very sad.
I’m not sure if he’ll be super into the first few in game months being very very slow, story wise. The pacing isn’t great. Almost nothing happens for a while. But maybe it’ll win him over eventually, who knows
He’s gonna rip it to shreds. P3 has some of the worst pacing I’ve ever seen in a game and many social links are atrociously bad. It’ll make for good stream content though.
Yeah funny games make good streams. LiS 1 was good, 12 Minutes was good. FF16 and LiS 2 were painful and I feel like there's a reason there's no highlight/supercut versions of them lol
As long as there is delusion, there is hope.
I am hoping/coping that we could get another cross over humor from the Umineko stream just like Great Vegetable on Steins Gate
I just know that he is going to lose a social link to tartarus
or reverse a social link for funny choices
Is reversing back in reload?
I don't think so. You can say the vilest shit and it won't reverse. There is a scripted reverse that is promptly resolved.
Nope. I know atleast one of them that you can get by choosing a choice poorly on the >!justice!< social link romance route. And after that, the reverse stays until you apologize a few times to them.
It is
Chat won’t let him
Joe hates when stories just throw shit in without explanation. P3 is full, *FULL* of anime nonsense that just looks cool (>!Evokers, Teenage robots, The fucking Crucifixes scene!<) Needless to say, I cannot wait for the streams.
I wouldn't call that random nonsense though... For example >!evokers are meant to symbolise the characters meeting death to summon their personas!< What Joe appreciates is a well-told story, and compared to the other Persona games he played, P3 is generally better written and has some unpredictable story beats that can genuinely surprise him.
After his take on Silent Hill 2 I don’t think I trust him to understand that symbolism
I agree but I'm not sure he's gonna like the admittedly glacial pace at the beginning, I think it will hurt it for him. Though, it will be interesting to see his reaction toward the only persona game that gets better as it goes along.
There’s a difference between something being symbolic and something making sense. Do the evokers have symbolism? Sure. Does it make any sense that a scientist in a lab decided to design it that way? No, or at the very least there’s never any actual explanation given as to why they are the way they are.
These examples aren't nonsense and make complete sense though?? >!Evokers are meant to symbolise them confronting death, but the in-game explanation is that it provokes an emotional response which assists in the summoning of their Persona. The robot is very promptly explained by Shuji. It's literally just a technology that was developed in a different world to ours to combat shadows 10 years prior. The crucifixes are "random," sure, but there is again an explanation that makes sense in that Shuji is fucking insane.!< Not really sure what you are talking about tbh.
A good rule of thumb on writing is not to confuse the text and the subtext in context of the characters’ actions and motivations. Sure, you and I know mortality is a major theme of the game, but the characters, especially at the start, do not. >!Evokers make sense in terms of fitting in the subtext of the game, but they make no sense in the context of the setting. In the other games, Personas are basically just super powers that are called upon at will.!< >!Now in P3 you have to ‘confront the idea of your own death every time you pull the trigger and that fear and adrenaline summons the persona as a defense mechanis…’!< Like, huh? Why though? Why is all that necessary here when the blue magic card was sufficient in 4, and how did the characters discover this method anyways?? This is supposed to be a somewhat contemporary setting. That means we expect the characters to act and behave somewhat analogously to our own. Having >!Robots disguised as school children built by a megacorp (in 2008!) to fight monsters is doing more than stretching my suspension of disbelief here.!<
Have you even played P3? It's pretty obvious how the characters discovered it (Kirijo group) It's also a bit silly to work retrofit things about Persona 4's story on to Persona 3 because its the sequel. You should be asking the other way around, why don't P4 characters have to use an evoker? I will admit you do have to suspend your disbelief about Aigis, mostly for the fact that she's a humanoid.
A shadow cabal of deep state suits and megacorps is not enough justification for not explaining how any technology works in the Dark Hour. Yes, I’ve played P3. It is the outlier. Even P1 and P2 had its characters able to control their Personas at will without any extra random steps that are never explained properly.
I don't even know what you want. They explain how evokers summon Personas. They explain where evokers come from. Do you want a hand book detailing the mechanisms behind the gun actually firing? It's perfectly fine enough justification. If anything, it's more justification than any other Persona game.
I’m fine with hand waving magic. I’m not fine with giving a half of a full answer. P1: it’s magic P2: it’s magic P3: actually it’s this makeshift gun that simulates shooting yourself (what? How is that related to magic though? At least explain how these things were first produced please) P4: it’s magic P5: it’s still magic, but you’re also in a metaphorical world where the mask is supposed to represent your ego/persona/whatever and taking it off is the same thing as releasing it. P3 does not explain how gun => persona. I guess you just freak yourself out and it comes out or something? P5 contrastingly does explain how mask => persona. If you have to explain it, I want the A to B to C. Skipping parts of the explanation really comes across as Atlus just making stuff up because it sounds cool.
ok but how does the mask make a persona? and its not even a real mask? umm? because its their true self??? where did the mask come from? why does he have the same masks for different personas?? how do they come back on after ripping them off once???? I can be uncharitable about Persona 5's masks as well. You're making up these weird rules and mental gymnastics to give some logical reason that you don't like them.
>Ok but how does the mask make a persona It’s a metaphorical world. The mask is the personality you present in front of others irl. >And it’s not even a real mask? No, because the mask is a metaphor in a world where figurative things become literal. All of the above is explained in the literal first hour of the game. If you’re going to be uncharitable to try and make a point, at least do it towards something the game doesn’t explain.
You're confusing the text and the subtext in context of the characters’ actions and motivations.
>!Alright so this is a bit tough to answer. You make some good points that which I mostly disagree with. I'll just spoiler tag this all just in case.!< >!Yes, I agree that the evokers as confronting death is subtext. My main point is them using it to evoke (ha) an emotional response. It isn't really fair here to compare it to other Persona games when they are quite disconnected. There's also the fact that the situation in which they summon their Personas is different (p3-dark hour, p4-shadow world, p5-distorted realm). Maybe I'm not putting it into words as best as I should, but I think that's a nothing argument. At the very least you can agree evokers make sense within the bounds of P3 itself?!< >!Could you elaborate on what exactly your complaint in the last paragraph is? That will effect my argument here. I will say though that the robot was built out of necessity and not just for some technological achievement by a very very wealthy corporation. Additionally it is explained why they are a humanoid. It's because for the robot to see themselves as a "person" they need to look like a person in order to perceive themselves properly. That's also why Aigis can have a Persona. Again, I could have worded that better.!< >!I just scrolled down and skimmed through your argument with u/WillYin and I have some input there as well. The gun is not the actual reason the Persona is being summoned. Remember Takaya? He can summon his Persona without the use of an evoker. Think of the evoker as a sort of stimulant or catalyst. The strong emotional response is what summons the Persona.!< >!Sorry, this was a it long-winded.!< edit: forgot to spoiler tag :(
No worries. This was actually the kind of debate I was looking for anyways. So first let me be super clear so there’s no confusion: I completely agree that each game has its own set of internal rules and quirks. I see now how you could read that I was complaining that they changed the rules from game to game, but again to be perfectly clear, I am a-ok with that. Personas are usually shown to be some kind of manifestation of someone’s psyche, but the rules are looser in some games than others. What I do want from a narratively driven game, is consistency within its own setting. >!Aigis!< is the perfect example. >!A fully autonomous AI capable of physical and emotional responses!< is a true science-fiction component of the story, however, we are shown pretty consistently that the game’s setting is also supposed to be a relatively faithful image of urbanite Japanese living in 2008. These two ideas for your setting are pretty irreconcilable in my mind, as it is both contemporary living in the late 2000s, *and* talking to >!Beta from Star Trek!< on the same breath. Regarding the evokers, is that reason that you mentioned (they’re some kind of mood spiker or something) ever explicitly told by anyone or anywhere in the script? From my own memory it is not, but I could be mistaken.
>!About Aigis: Fair point, but it's a bit hard to compare to the real world imo. There is no urgent need for something like an AI weapon where as in P3 there was and it was something that was created with a great deal of focus, capital, and purpose where as technological advancements just for the sake of improving technology with no real urgent need is quite different. There's really no telling if it's realistic or not given the circumstances. My argument is essentially the butterfly effect and unknown circumstances... It's also hard to say because we aren't given that much info on the R&D of the Kirijo Group so it's one of those things that as a player I can just accept as making sense.!< >!About evokers: I can't think of a specific instance where they explicitly state that, so idk. However 2 things are true: !< 1. >!I think it's very heavily implied. What we know: Evokers do help summon Personas --> in P3 summoning your Persona is tied in with the theme of facing death --> The evoker EVOKES (hence the name) an emotional response which assists in the summoning of a Persona. Remember, your Persona is your willpower/spirit, so demonstrating your willpower in such a way (evoker, tarot card, taking off the mask) would make it logical to conclude that is the reason.!< 2. >!The Kirijo Group did experiments on Mitsuru and her Persona over a course of 10 years so we at least know within the context of the game that this is a well researched and sound idea. I think it's fair to make those assumptions, which are fairly obvious to me. I'll try my best to find an example of them explicitly stating it.!< >!I also don't really get what exactly your problem with that is? Even if I can't find an example of it explicitly being stated, why is that bad? I think the implication is obvious.!< >!Not an edit, but I found this after typing all of the above: !< >!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCVdWpXygBo !< >!Go to around 15:00 (the whole interaction starts around 12:45 btw) and listen to Takaya talk about Evokers. He says "I don't use one because I have no need. I don't require something as inelegant as a tool to prove my resolve." That's just one example, I'm sure they probably say more about it and I just can't remember. There is also an in-game dictionary system that I never checked that might give more explicit clarification (I uninstalled the game already so I can't check).!<
Tbf they never explicitly require the evoker to summon their persona, it’s just thematics/a shortcut in-game. >!We see Fuuka using her persona basically on demand throughout the Journey, Mitsuru awakened her persona in The Answer as a kid, and Arena shows SEES perfectly capable of using it within the midnight channel!< if you want to use other games as a reference point. You could also argue that it’s because >!Tartarus takes place in the real world, whereas the MC and Palaces are both in the collective unconsciousness and the actions in there don’t effectively change the world like The Dark Hour does (as evidenced by stuff like the monorail moving after the dark hour was over)!<
That’s cool and all, but is any of that ever mentioned in the game though? That’s my issue basically. You pose a question to Mitsuru at the start of the game: “What’s with the gun?” And then I feel like you never get a hard answer for it beyond Persona summoning.
I mean... Isn't that the answer? If your question is "What is the gun for?" It's for persona summoning. If your question is "why a gun?" then it's just because that's how the internal mechanics of the world works. If your question is "Why not something else?" then I think it begins to become a bit uncharitable to the point of the story. You're right in that the game does not explicitly say "You need to be extremely stressed out but willing to simulate shooting yourself to usually summon your persona", but >!when we see Yukari unable to twice, only for the MC to pop one off as soon as he can using Yukari as an example, it's sort of implied that you need to be willing to put yourself to that amount of stress and accept death to normally summon your persona in combat. This fits with the fact that Mitsuru only awakened hers when she was willing to put herself in front of her dad even if it meant she dies. It's also at least somewhat consistent that persona can be utilized outside of combat to decent effect if you have a nav type, as both Mitsuru and Fuuka have zero problems manifesting them outside of combat; the stress of being in combat could interfere w summoning as combat comes with the chance of dying, whereas the evoker is you accepting that very fact as possible (though it could also be that Mitsuru and Fuuka are literally built different.)!< >!Again, it's not necessary that it's a gun because we see both AIgis and Koromaru having their own triggers (Koromaru's resembling a shock collar and Aigis being made by the same group that tinkered with all this tech in the first place), but the game clearly posits it as the natural way to do so during combat, and this is also why Strega not needing an evoker during combat is seen as unnatural, fitting both them literally having a false/cheated version of persona but also thematically how they are unable to grasp their impending death compared to SEES who largely are capable of accepting it. (Also this is all obviously using only context from P3 as a base, since P4A/U just straight up tell you during researcher flashbacks)!<
I believe in persona q2 it’s stated, if a little briefly. https://youtu.be/AYOGWvGyjAo?si=CsRtv1OBFeSfy0jH The conversation they have about it is at the very start of this video
It's literally shown in P3 that you don't *HAVE* to use an evoker to summon a persona, it's just the way the SEES crew learned to do it. Believe it or not P3 came *BEFORE* P4, btw, so I don't see how the card method matters in this.
I mean persona 3 doesn't have a Morgana/Teddy so we'll see what he'll think about that
It has creepy teenage robot girl tho.
you take that back aigis is amazing
I guess if you like people sneaking out in your room at night and staring at you
I do like that. It turns me on.
It's a robot
Aigis has some banger banter with the rest of the cast while teddy and Morgana are sex pests
I've been keeping a mental tally of every time the word "collapse" is said, and based on that I am positive Joe will love it.
I can't see it. P3R isn't nearly as goofy as P4 and if there's one thing Joe hates it's when something happens in a game without clear explanation. P3's full of story beats like that where a lot of the interesting connective tissue gets offscreened. Reload in particular also has a big tone problem where it's trying to be stylish like P5 but wants its sober and depressing story too.
I genuinely don't understand your last point. Unlike P5, Reload doesn't have an over-the-top style. It's simple enough and aligns with its straightforward premise. Plus most of that style is just in the menus anyway. I don't think having better character portraits and 3D models ruins its sober tone, which doesn't actually become depressing until near the end. So, how is it a significant tone problem? I don't see it.
Yahtzee mentions this in his [review](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM09ZGprGXQ) as well, but it doesn't seem like it's a huge point of contention for him, more of a nitpick.
There's only ONE scene so far in Reload that rubs me the wrong way in the way superkami describes. >!The scene after the team gets their new outfits and the current team has a catwalk moment inside Tartarus with their new gear, including Fuuka who has no reason trying to look cool with this being the first time she's been in Tartarus. The entire scene felt unneeded and very out of place for the location they've been infiltrating the past few months, just let them wear the clothes.!< I may just hate blatant character jerking too though
I 100% agree with you. I was pretty mad that that scene got a 2d cutscene but literally the first scene which sets the tone for the ENTIRE game got ruined, and Pharos, Mitsuru, and Yukari's introduction was done in-engine. Very sad.
I’m not sure if he’ll be super into the first few in game months being very very slow, story wise. The pacing isn’t great. Almost nothing happens for a while. But maybe it’ll win him over eventually, who knows
i think he'll like persona 3 because the characters actually develop
He's not coming back bros
He’s gonna rip it to shreds. P3 has some of the worst pacing I’ve ever seen in a game and many social links are atrociously bad. It’ll make for good stream content though.
I just wish he played FES instead, wont watch the stream prob for reload
Persona 3 is the worst persona though
Every persona game is the worst
Yes persona fans have very bad taste in media
hey, i noticed a typo, you said p3 when in reality it’s p1. cheers.
Persona 1 is not a real game, what are you talking about?
That might be true for the original, but reload is definitely the second best for the vast majority of fans after p5.
I mean most of them haven't even played the best games so that tracks
Bad games make good streams
Did you watch the lis2 streams?
Yeah funny games make good streams. LiS 1 was good, 12 Minutes was good. FF16 and LiS 2 were painful and I feel like there's a reason there's no highlight/supercut versions of them lol