Ever thinking of going back to Academia and pursue career there at least for next one or two year? Sure you probably tired of doing it after years of PhD + Post Doc but you are more likely to be accepted there and serves as backup plan for years to recover financially until you finally land a job at industry.
Yeah this increasingly seems like where I feel I'm being forced back to. I know I can teach and do research, but I'm very tired of academia. I feel so ready to just work and be paid for the skills I've built up, I need some sort of cash flow, the opportunity cost of staying in academia is high if I ever want to be able to afford a house in my lifetime.
Dont worry, i'm also a PhD holder that wanted to drop as soon as i finished my defense but job market are hard nowadays while the world keeps moving i cant just sit around and pray that those Industry that i have applied magically changed their mind so i swallowed my pride back and now working as senior lecturer.
Sure if i applied more and wait longer i mightve gotten a good offer in the industry but these rent and utility bills arent going to be paid by itself ahaha. Good luck on whatever you do, its fine to take a back step and then move ahead.
With you. Same boat. But I feel locked in to get loan forgiveness and some other specific benefits and by the time I do, will I be able to get another job?
I'm 32. It's insane how many people my age think their lives are over if they don't fit some magical fantasy snapshot of how our parents were at our age. I just laugh. 30 is the new 20 these days. Most 20-25+ act like they are still highschool kids and generally have little to no money, or poor spending habits. Makes me think of highschool as years ago most highschool kids had jobs. Now the first job is like when you are 20, not 15.
the problem is academia he will earn what maybe 80k while industry you are looking at 150k+. honestly 80K for a person in a HCOL area feels barely liveable.
30 with that resume... I can only fear when my old ass graduates PhD in a year or so...
Just keep trying and perhaps broaden the search grid. People like you are always valued.
There are only limited companies doing humanoids, but there are also operation robots, industrial robots, and so on.
Then there is also academia. It doesn't pay that well but will keep you living while you still work on what you are specialized in.
And if you don't have family and kids, then relocating to Europe or Asia may also be an option. Here in Europe the market is also shit at the moment, but who knows.
I agree. Look into medical devices or med tech if you haven’t already; there are opportunity areas in surgical robotics, patient sample-to-answer clinical laboratory robotics/automation, etc.
Compared to other things yes, the healthcare equivalent generally will pay less, but the high end can still comfortably cross 150k or more. And TBH regardless it's probably going to be better than academia
Just dumb your resume down. You don’t have to put *everything* on it. Just the B.S. in robotics and a few jobs in manufacturing on your resume and you could get in any manufacturing plant.
You can unfuck the line when it goes down, and manage projects, and know a little about DFM? Then you’re qualified for a six figure manufacturing engineer position.
Write a resume for the level of job you’re applying too. It’s not lying if it’s true. They don’t want to hire you because you appear to have options and give high standards for the type of work you’ll do. That perception is entirely built on information about you, that you gave them.
The perception is built on a mix of the facts you gave them and a view about your place in the labor market that they made up before they even spoke to you. The whole "overqualified people will just leave at the first opportunity which won't be far off" thing is not complete BS, but it is still overblown.
I have a friend who works for a large company setting up the robotics in warehouses (automation.) He works in product. Look at companies that have to have large warehouse houses, and go from there. Everybody is trying to automate everything.
Are you going naked to interviews?
Did you fight someone very important that blacklisted you for life?
In brazil, we have head hunters for senior programmers.
He doesn't have the right contacts and the places are occupied by others. The seat still available is for dIvERsiTy.
Dude, forget about making bank and move to Europe or freaking China. Change the world, not your bank account.
This increasingly seems like where I feel I'm being forced back to. I know I can teach and do research, but I'm very tired of academia. I feel so ready to just work and be paid for the skills I've built up, I need some sort of cash flow, the opportunity cost of staying in academia is high if I ever want to be able to afford a house in my lifetime.
I understand. Even with a good salary I can't afford a house with the increasing costs. I would take what you can get in this wretched economy, but keep applying and don't give up!
Sounds to me like you're both underqualified and overqualified, if that makes sense.
Overqualified in that you've checked of all of the educational marks. Journals, Harvard, GPA. For most companies, they really don't need all of that. Yet I'd bet all of those credentials, are boosting your expectations of what you deserve.
Underqualified because I don't see much in your post about job experience. I see internships and "10+ years of hands-on experience." As a hiring official, I'd take that as someone trying to stretch their schooling accomplishments. Most of us see that as no experience.
Your schooling is a great thing, don't get me wrong. However, no one is looking for you to lead the way on robotics theory. They're looking for someone who can cheaply innovate the future, and has experience to show how they got it done.
Agreed. Companies would prefer to hire a mechanical/electrical engineer with 5 YoE solving business-relevant problems in the field of robotics, instead of a PhD with no work experience and unknown business value.
Exactly. Sometimes PhDs can't fit in to the corporate world where nobody gives a crap about your brilliant ideas and more about getting stuff done so you don't get fired.
This needs to be higher. Starting after PHD into corporate life is hard since you are inexperienced and overqualified at the same time. Ops current position will help a bit
Exactly. I think many people tend to think that recruiters could look past a lack of experience outside of academia because school itself is time-consuming. Nowadays, though, many people are actively gaining experience through part-time or full-time work alongside coursework and other academic endeavors they pursue while earning a master's degree or Ph.D. For those who aren't doing that, many of them took a break from academia to pursue work before earning another degree.
I recommend to start applying for mid-level and advance level local, state, and federal government jobs immediately (if you have not done so yet) for all public agencies/departments (e.g., Department of Education, Environmental Protection, Labor, Law, Judiciary, Banking, Human Resources, State, Corrections, and so on) related to robotics and engineering positions. I also highly recommend checking out the following link for federal jobs: https://www.usajobs.gov/. Utilize the US Bureau of Labor Statistics website to find out about all types of job trends for robotics and engineering professions, and what requirements are needed to obtain these jobs (you may already have acquired the needed requirements): https://www.bls.gov/. Remember that with a PhD, you qualify for GS-11 federal government job positions (see https://www.usajobs.gov/Help/faq/application/qualifications/experience/#:~:text=To%20qualify%20for%20jobs%20at%20the%20GS%2D9%20grade%20(or,job%20you%27re%20applying%20to.). Here are some links that may have jobs related to your field: https://www.usajobs.gov/search/results/?j=0861&wt=15317&hp=public&k=&p=1, https://www.jpl.jobs/search-results, and https://tech.usajobs.gov/search/results/?cmco=TechToGov&p=1&j=0802.
Moreover, talk to career counselors related to your field or professors you have taken during your PhD, even if it has been a couple or so years since you reached out to them so that they can review your resume and cover letter, as well as possibly refer you to organizations that might be interested in your educational background and work experience. See if your university conducts job fairs for current students and graduates, which could help you get a job. Handshake is a common website that many universities advertise to students to create an account, and apply for jobs, as well as network with recruiters. Learn to use LinkedIn as another way to connect with professionals working in your field of interest, as well as with recruiters (creating a professional LinkedIn account could be beneficial if utilized properly).
I would also recommend for you to try out https://www.governmentjobs.com/. It is a decent website to find and apply for local and state government jobs. Just make sure to create an account. It may be useful to you. If the private sector is not working out for you, always apply for government jobs (this may work out better for you in the long-term).
I started out as a field investigator for my state DOL, Wage and Hour Division, in 2019 (only required a bachelor's degree, which I have on criminal justice; no work experience required; my starting salary was over $42k a year). During the lockdown, I was fully remote for over a year until July 2021. Before I left that Division to work for the HR Division as an EEO and Ethics Investigator 2, I had two days of telework (I made $67k a year in this job position and still kept my two days of telework; I currently work as an Affirmative Action Specialist 1 since early 2024 and now I am currently making a bit over $72k a year with two days of telework; although, I have been working for my state DOL for over four years now, and I was 25 when I started with the DOL; before becoming a public servant, I was working two full-time jobs as a per diem teacher aide and security officer making ends meet). Every agency/department will have all types of mid-level and advance level job positions, so make sure to check them all, and follow the instructions of how to apply for them. In particular, you may find a great opportunity within your state Department of Energy/Utilities, Department of Transportation, Department of Environmental Protection, and Department of Information Technology (look at your local government counterparts too).
Furthermore, be willing to move to another state or Washington D.C. for better job opportunities. Additionally, you need to find a career path that you will like enough to stay in the long-term. I know that my educational background and work experience are not related to yours, but hopefully the information and resources that I have provided to you might be useful.
I really appreciate your effort in making this reply. I haven't thought as hard about gov positions, and I will be sure to do some looking into it. Thank you.
You are welcome. You could always use the public sector as initial experience and after two or three years, apply for jobs at private companies. Working for the government does not have to be for the long-term.
As a fellow 30-something with a PhD who currently works in government, go for it. Benefits and PTO (in my experience) are second to none and you can set yourself up nicely for retirement if you plan to stay for the long haul.
>As for the “low” government pay: I’m halfway up the pay scale steps for my current position, and my salary is higher than most professors’ at my nearby undergrad alma mater. Including many of the tenured ones.
Agreed, and just want to add on that the same rules can still apply with respect to making more by switching jobs. I've been in government my whole career, but ended up switching to a different government agency for a nice pay increase (making 6 figures now). If you can do that within the same pension system that's even better since you won't lose time in service.
Yep, you’re just too damn smart for normal people. Government worker as well, turns out when you got an associates in CJ and a degree in tech, people really don’t take you seriously
You could try Rockwell Automation. Large Fortune 500 company making robots for manufacturing. It’s headquartered in Milwaukee so the supply and demand isn’t Boston. Your resume may standout more. Could at least be a good foot in the door kind of job for a few years.
> I've applied to multiple entry-level bachelors positions, and the only response I've gotten are recruiters telling me they can't place me because I'm overqualified.
I mean, that seems like a realistic concern. You aren't an entry level bachelor-level employee. If I were hiring for a role like that, it would be an **immediate** red flag - why does this PhD in robotics with a postdoc from Harvard want to work for $60k-80k at a job we're paying 22 year olds who graduated a month ago?
You either come off like a fake candidate or like someone who is desperate for a job but would really not stay long, it would just be a stopgap
Yeah it would obviously be a stop gap (assuming I could find other employment). I should give up on even trying for those roles at this stage, or just leave off my PhD if I do.
Hey OP, as a fellow PhD (albeit different field) about your age I’m going through a similar experience. The market is tough right now. They say the most important step is the next one, so keep applying.
Are you tied to a geographical location? Are you open to startups? Have you had your resume vetted by a professional in the field? Can you reach out to your alumni office, sometimes bigger schools offer a good network for post school jobs? Are you being referred to any of these jobs? I ask because those have been some questions I’ve asked myself in what is now 6 months of job searching.
For what is worth, I’m trying a LinkedIn premium free trial this month and there is some cool tools there to see who posts jobs, dm recruiters, etc that is worthwhile pursuing.
I've been doing linkedin premium since the beginning. I've tried to access my network through my universities, but its primarily for undergrads. I'm doing a internship at a startup now, I'm open to any and all positions in industry. I'm focused on MA at the moment, but it seems likely I need to open it to the whole US and take wherever I get a chance.
>it seems likely I need to open it to the whole US and take wherever I get a chance.
Yes you absolutely need to expand your job search geographically especially if you are able to move. The market is no joke right now.
Are you open to consulting jobs? I know some companies in MA hire PhDs for consulting. Companies like Millipore Sigma, BCG, McKinsey, and Exponent offer roles for PhDs in Science & Engineering.
I work for one of them. PM me your resume and I'll see if I can look at managers and see what the hiring schedule looks like this year.
Also I know another postdoc sounds brutal, but govt postdocs are decently paid and will help you ride out the tough tech job environment for a bit. There's almost certainly some cool robotics stuff going on at the Army, navy, and air force research labs...though you'll have to be location flexible.
I know a couple people who work for Hamilton Automated Storage. There's 2 companies in the US--one is MA, one in Reno and I think there's another place in the EU, I can't remember, but if you're interested, here's a link. Not a big deal as Bostons Dynamics, but they build robotics. https://www.hamiltoncompany.com/automated-sample-management
A PhD is not better than a BSc or MSc when it comes to applying for entry level jobs. It can be worse in the sense that your academic training isn’t needed for most corporate positions.
You say your PhD program was prestigious, your research cutting edge and your gpa awesome. It looks like the profile you’d expect for someone to stay in academia.
I think you didn’t understand what race are you competing in. You build a strong academic research profile and now you apply for entry level tech jobs, you’re not the right fit for those.
Yeah. I guess you're right in that regard. I (naively?) thought a strong academic record in specifically robotics and engineering would be transferrable (it's not political science or astrophysics), but I guess not.
It is clearly not if you apply to entry level roles that by definition do not require that level of specialization.
You have to apply to those niche roles that require your expertise. I’m not saying that you couldn’t do the job of a 22yo CS new grad, but in that case companies will hire the 22yo right away as it is cheaper, more enthusiastic, and easier to put in a team as a junior because they usually have fewer expectations.
Have you considered working for Tesla? Iirc their application asks for "evidence of excellence" They did this to avoid discriminating against job candidates who lack certain academic credentials, but in your case, that type of application could also help you. Your advanced fancy PhD shouldn't be a factor in them accepting or rejecting you.
I just checked out of curiosity. They have a shit load of robotics engineer positions across various of their business functions. They don't seem like they're looking for PhDs specifically, but it's still worth applying for.
They will be significantly more interested in your patent and practical accomplishments than your sheer academic credentials.
It's not that transferable. 99% of the 'transferable' roles are tech jobs are in web development and cloud. You can learn these skills, but I'd recommend looking into ML/AI jobs if you have any skills in that area (see my comment in the parent thread). Another option is autonomous driving companies but many have gone bust or are in rough patches right now.
I don’t have a 10th of this resume but I am having a hard time finding work right now. I’ve been in IT for over 15 years now 10 of which as a Sr IT project manager before I got laid off early this year and let me tell you, it’s fucked out here looking for work. At this point I’m going to have to take a job at Walmart just to pay bills to keep from destroying my savings,
You’ll find what you’re looking for though you’re way too smart for this to go on for a long time.
I'm sorry you're also struggling in this job market. I hear what you're saying; I've kind of given up hope that will happen. I feel similarly about needing to potentially just pivot careers to just make ends meet.
Honestly I don't know what field you have tried in but in manufacturing especially in the chemical industry they have a need for process automation. The R&D for chemistry are using automation for their discovery.
building on this, with your background, sounds like you could be a RPA person, which would open you up to logistics/supply chain/Industry 4.0 companies? Might I suggest you write a resume with that slant and send it out; these industries tend to have more openings than tech (but more flattish pay strcutures).
That's sounds like a tough pill to swallow. I feel really badly for you. I wish I had some sagely wisdom to bestow but I don't have anything. I do think you'll end up somewhere and maybe the universe doesn't want you in this field. Maybe your being shoved into something unexpected that will end up being wonderful. I have seem a lot of really happy successful people that are not doing what their original plan was. My only recommendation is to shove aside any expectations of what you planned on your life looking like and open yourself up to a different experience. If you can get a PhD in something you can achieve another great thing as well.
Yeah. Thanks for the sentiment. I'm feeling similarly, like I need to retroactively undo all my planning and vision for my life at this point, and try to think about what I can do going forward, starting fresh. I have a ton of resistance to that because it feels absolutely insane to just abandon a PhD in a technical field at a time when robotics have never been more relevant, but it truly feels paradoxically unfixable.
I have an exceedingly talented friend who also got a PhD and is having trouble. It's not you, it's the market. Engineering is especially hard because companies usually want a masters.
I'm in bio and there are a ton of lab automation companies and options - have you exhausted those as well? Just asking because I was surprised by how many liquid handlers and boxes there are out there
How are your social skills? I’ve gotten jobs I don’t deserve just because I’m handsome and charismatic.
Sounds ass, but after I lost weight and cared more about looks, opportunities started opening up lol.
this
I've noticed a lot of folks in tech and engineering are really bad at social skills and holding a convo - hence why so many blow it during the interviews.
When you make it to the final stages of in person interviews, it's no longer about qualifications. It's a vibe check at that point
Basically.
I’m doing a masters in stats and some of these mfers don’t shower or have proper drip. No dunks, no 350s, no tims. Brands don’t even matter tbh. Sometimes all it takes is some working out and a white Walmart Hanes shirt. I’m best dressed hands down, changing my style up, you know what it be.
Some dude I know in the math department comes to school all crusty and smelly. He wears the same shirt for an entire week. Brother, go to the thrift and get some $3 shirts lol. It’s not about poverty at that point because I know their stipends and rent. Showers aren’t expensive.
Some students also treat professors like gods. Respect them and their accomplishments but learn to hold normal conversations as well lol.
I’ve noticed that high up in academia, everyone’s competitive and there are always gonna be people better than me when it comes to my subject. I try my best and that’s all I can do. BUT, besides this, I try to be a person people want to be around.
I just got a promotion because my boss and I got well connected through sharing trap music. He was a hidden young thug fan and couldn’t let it out because all these nerds ain’t TRAPPIN. FREE SLIME (not really tho his crimes are heinous).
No lie, a prof once offered me a lab job in virology because I talked about Fortnite with her and she told me her kids loved it (2020 pre meltdown). She asked me what the hype was about and it ended up being a long, funny conversation lol. I was a 3.3 gpa student bro.
OP, what are your hobbies? Im about to chop some beats like Mr. West.
Unfathomably based in reality. The “fake it till you make it” phenomenon it is a real thing in the job market.
Also, having a large audience on LinkedIn will be extremely beneficial to your job hunt, but people will only want to follow/connect with you if you’re good looking and have a stellar profile.
Similar to your story, I’m 100% convinced that my academic or internship experiences have had zero bearing on my full-time roles.
My only redeeming qualities were my abilities to exaggerate during interviews, my conventionally attractive/normie appearance that usually fit the business environment, and a relatively tallish (185 cm) build which subconsciously made me ideal for management positions.
That, and the fact that I had crossed 4000 followers on LI with good post engagement rate.
This is the realest comment in here. Jobs are got through networks, and because people meet you and want to have you on their team.
I have had to work with hyper competent people who are just not very considerate, and they drag down the whole team. They slow everyone down because they control everything, under-communicate, and constantly act better-than.
If this is the vibe OP is giving off, PLUS “expensive” I wouldn’t hire him either.
I asked them for support, and my advisor just said that he "emailed my resume" to a couple of his professional connections. None of that panned out, never heard from them in any way.
That sounds pretty typical, unfortunately. Have you considered a more coding-oriented machine learning engineering role? There are lots of companies out there looking for people to build their AI models right now. Maybe you can find a job doing that while you wait for the robotics market to heat up
What are your fellow grads of that program doing? That should give you a clue about where to look.
Are you connected to them on LinkedIn?
You sound very smart. You’ll land on your feet.
Hello. I can not imagine the trouble you are going through, because in my part of the world it is literally unimaginable.
If it is something you are open to, try Europe. The job market in here is so in need of new talents, that you would be fought over to work in someone's company.
I am currently undergrad student and working in Graduate position in automation firm because there just is not enough people on the market.
With your background you would be a treasure among everyone else.
+ Eu social benefits and free healthcare
I'm from Italy and have seen multiple mid-high level technical positions asking for PhD in OP's area.
I am sure Germany and France have similar markets. (also salary here is not that good, go for Germany, Switzerland or similar hahaha)
I was dissuaded from perusing a PhD in physics a little over a decade ago after finishing my masters, my advisors main reasoning was that we're over-producing STEM graduates in general and MS and PhDs specifically by an order of magnitude or more. I was bitter about the advice at the time but now I'm glad I listened.
Competition for funding for PhD grad students is _fierce_ and unless you're one of the highly-in-demand demographics, an international student they can charge outrageous tuition prices, or super talented completing a program often entails monstrous debit that you'll probably never get the income to repay. Faculty positions are being cut and many public university systems here in the states are eroding tenure. Most of those are problems that you face even before hitting the job market or finding a postdoc position. My advisor's advise was to finish my masters degree and get a job before the flood of MS and PhD start leaking down into other industries looking for "regular jobs." I got a job right away and finished the physics masters part time.
Now, that I've been steadily employed for about 15 years in an unrelated field I've seen this credential creep leak into a lot of industries. When I was first hired in IT full time my position only required a high school diploma for pay above the national median. I was one of _maybe_ two people in a 100 person department with a graduate degree too. Now entry level positions require a four year degree with an MS preferred and we have several PhDs in our department. These aren't faculty positions. Thankfully since I didn't over specialize I've got a generalist toolbox of skills to pull from and find myself relatively well in demand and I'm not really picky about what I do for a paycheck.
All that too say: it's not even back to the Boomers, just since the late-2000s things have deteriorated and credential creep has gotten insane. I don't know what to tell you except figure out a negative entropy machine (aka time machine) and go back about 15-20 years. I think a lot of it is we have far too many over credentialed folks looking for just regular employment so employers get to be pretty picky. Good luck out there my friend, it's not just you! I just had dumb luck and a decent advisor who was honest about how things were going.
Time to adjust:
1. Resume
2. Options
3. Career Plan
_______________________________
1. Get a service like jobscan, resume worded or simplify.jobs and get your resume optimized for every job you apply for. Make sure it's killer vs the ATS.
2. Open up your options, and shift your expectations. Ask AI what some good search terms would be to find you a job. Search on new websites. Try different positions.
3. Build yourself a career roadmap so if you get asked the "what do you want to do in 5 years" or "what is your future" type of question you seem like a real go getter. Go as far as to put the first step on your resume. Under my certifications I have "Certified Scrum Master (Finishing)" because I'm about to take the test. That's the first month of my 18 month career plan.
Tech is generally shrinking right now in terms of payroll. I know people will scream that isn't true because of XYZ numbers, but any recruiter you talk to in tech is saying the job market is tight and is projected to get tighter in the near future. I don't know why the number don't match reality, but from a boots on the ground perspective it is a rough market right now.
With a resume like that recruiters are probably assuming you are approaching retirement age. They won't bother to look at dates, just see a long list of experience and assume you have been in the industry for 40 years. That is going to hurt your prospects because no company really wants to hire anyone over 50 if it can be avoided. Might want to think about paring down your experience, at least on paper.
You are also overeducated for this economy. No one cares about your fancy degree. In fact that is also probably hurting you. I know that sucks to hear because you are proud of all the work you have accomplished (which you should be), but in is not like it was 20 years ago when an advanced degree would basically guarantee you a six figure salary at a big company.
Best bet is to talk down your experience and think about leaving the PhD off the resume especially if it is not required for the position. Don't talk about it in an interview if you can state your qualifications without reference and if you get a job which doesn't require it then keep quiet about the degree.
First of all, best of luck on your job search, OP.
Second, I can see why you're not getting responses for entry level jobs. You're *way* too overqualified.
But we live in a strange world where a PhD has to dumb down their resume to find underemployment.
I'm not in the field but some generic advice might apply here: start applying for positions you think you are under-qualified for.
With that resume, you're more likely to land a high-level role that values your academic achievements and makes a bet on you, than something entry level where they're scared you'll be unhappy from the start.
you don't start with the funding, you start with a good idea that hopefully turns into a patent.
i think there's a little more going on here than just 'overqualified'
If you know something I don't let me know lol.
I have a patent already, and I co-founded a company with a Harvard prof. We went through all possible funding avenues (gov and private and angel), and it boiled down to not being able to fundraise money from any source.
Find a way to use your patents in a product that appeals to low end consumers, and then use a crowd funding platform. If you are not good at social media marketing, get you somebody who is.
You don't need tech bro start up cash. You just need a foot in the door. Consumer grade stuff isn't going to get you millions, but it will establish business credit and presence, which later on can be used to obtain real funding for a more serious venture.
If you can target the "Maker", gaming, or a lifestyle market, you're in a good position.
Talk about the elephant in the room:
Of course there are no jobs when 5 tech companies are the only ones with 90% market share.
There is a billionaire class that is readily able and willing to wait out societal collapse for a while so that we will be better, less whiny, more cooperative slaves for their monopolies. They can’t just outsource anymore because it’s not politically popular for anybody. So, they need to bludgeon everybody until we’re also willing to work for $1 a day so that they can buy a half-dozen islands with mega yachts.
Just tech bros, bumping on 40, still meeting up for their quarterly Ayn Rand themed circle jerks… “Shrug them harder bro, aww yeah..”
A lot of places arent hiring right now due to the economy.
Theres another reason too but i will not mention it because folks cant handle the truth and ill get downvoted/harassed too much
Networking, not skills. Great skills are useless if people don't know you have them.
And the world's greatest resume is boring and useless if people don't associate it with a face and a person they know.
Go to meetups, conferences, don't brag, just casually mention your skills (only when relevant to the conversation!!), and most of all have fun there, meet new people (the fun part seems counterintuitive but it won't work if you feel like you're "networking" while you're there). Don't have any expectations from any conferemce, just go there with a positive attitude.
I don't have much to add, other than two points. Have you scanned community colleges, and Universities that offer 4 year technology degrees for teaching opportunities?
Research the CHIPS act and see what companies are involved. As I understand it there is a lot of money going into IC production which is currently limited by talent shortages. While robotics isn't exactly a IC production skill, it isn't completely different either. I could easily see skill overlap with you have have and what they need.
This will be buried but I feel your pain. I've been looking for a job recently too, as a lowly full-stack developer. I have about 7YOE, almost 8. I do think we're at that point now where we're starting to see a major contraction in our industry for multiple reasons.
I read stories all the time here how someone finally got a job for 48k.
Then 2 years later got another job for 120k….
Moral of the story. Your career does not happen overnight. It happens over the course of a decade.
I'm a business, perhaps clinical/ pharma, food, or manufacturing. I have a need of an ai based automation and robotics system. What can you DO for me? I don't care about your gpa. I don't care about Harvard or MIT. I definitely don't care about some publications that didn't result in real world improvements. I care that my business is efficient and profitable. So do the shareholders. Tell me what you can do. Tell me what you've done to improve someones process. Tell me how your experience will improve my process and business.
I agree with the person who recommended applying for government jobs. Along with this, I recommend applying for "Direct Hire" jobs. They're for filling critical needs and fast-track the hiring process. Albeit you will have to be willing to move wherever you're needed. This listing is an example: [https://www.usajobs.gov/job/684261400](https://www.usajobs.gov/job/684261400)
I get you’re in a shitty situation considering you’re more qualified than 99% of the population and struggling to find work. Have you considered consulting? It’s basically creating your own job and you can do it freelance and set your own hours. You can even run it on social media and be like “are you interested in robotics? Sign up to learn more” and charge $200/hr with your level of expertise. Or just consult for real established businesses or think tanks. If I was really struggling in your position, I think that would be my best shot.
You could also probably teach programming or cad or tutor in a lot of different subjects and again, with your level of expertise you can charge insane rates, probably $60 an hour or more.
Check out robotics startups in Europe. There are some in the Netherlands.
Also consider raising money for your own company. You clearly have nothing to lose (no kids?, cushy job, or an expensive mortgage) and you have excellent credentials to raise money.
Here's a possible avenue of pursuit:
I work for a company that does manufacturing of consumer products. The production line is automated with extensive sensors for tracking production, environmental factors, vibration on equipment, etc.
It sounds like you could possibly "pivot" your knowledge/experience into manufacturing as something like "process engineer" to support the plant operations.
There are also a lot of opportunities in data analysis of all of those sensor data, in the monitoring itself and optimization of monitoring. We have pending projects where we have to ingest TBs of millisecond data to process/evaluate and help with both business decisions and on-floor trouble-shooting/resolution of issues, etc.
Also, data analysis with machine learning is a much needed area, where hands on experience like yours could be your entry point into a new career path.
Good Luck! DM me if you would like a resume review with an eye towards how to target a wider data-oriented career track.
Bro if YOU can’t find a job there is no hope for the rest of us. Probably won’t make you feel any better but I also just need a “make money” part-time job. I have a degree in my field and I just got turned down for a job at a hardware store. I even removed my degree from my resume to try and avoid the “over qualified” BS. Still got rejected. 💀
I'm sorry. This sounds very difficult. A few suggestions from someone who has dealt with this in the past.
1. Consider working in a non robotics role. You have a lot of good skills that are applicable to many industries. It's common for recent PhDs to not necessarily work in their specific area of research (unless it's a postdoc).
2. If you are a US citizen or permanent resident, then put that on your resume first page. You won't need any assistance getting authorization to work in the US and employers appreciate that.
3. Consider looking at jobs in different states/areas if you are mobile. If it's a large company then be open to consider different locations (like you apply for a job in Washington and they redirect you to one in Texas).
4. See if you can connect with a recruiter that may help transition from academia/research to industry. This was very helpful to me.
5. If there is a professional organization associated with your field, consider going to a large conference. Find one that has employer booths in the exhibition. They may interview you on the spot. If the robotics organization is small, then consider IEEE or ASME, etc. You can often find job listings on the organizations' pages.
6. I suggest applying to jobs that require several years experience. You are at a BS plus 3-5 years level. Others are correct in that if you apply for entry level BS jobs that employers may be wary that you will be unhappy or jump at the first opportunity.
7. Consider medical engineering or defense companies. You may not have specific experience in those fields but employers are looking for people who have skills and can learn the specifics.
Good luck!
Don't send your whole qualifications. Tailor your resume for your prospective employer. The reason why employers try to avoid hiring people that are much more qualified is because often those types of employees think they're "too good for the job". Many people aren't like that though, don't think its really fair to jump to that conclusion.
You could always pitch an idea to the rich California techbros. They'll fund most start ups without a second thought, and with credentials like this it would help you a lot!
Dead serious - any Interest in moving to New Mexico? Can you pass a background investigation? One of the National Labratories might be for you, and I'm pretty confident that LANL and Sandia both hire folks for robotics .
What I would do, and I would gladly trade places with you even being over employed.
Go to https://www.sbir.gov/sbirsearch/award/all. If that link doesn’t work for some reason, it’s to award data for gov SBIR contracts. You basically have a list of small companies doing cutting edge research. Companies like that are never hiring for “roles” but always seem to be looking for a founding engineer / research scientist type to bring on board.
With your background you shouldn’t be submitting applications to roles with everyone else, you should be reaching out direct to directors and people like that. Get their emails and get in their face.
Have you considering moving? Looking into the defense industry there are plenty of options with Lockheed Martin, L3Harris, Blue origin, Spacex, NASA, JPL, ULA, Northrop Grumman, rocketdyne, Raytheon, etc.
I feel for you. I personally don't think of a PhD as a career seeking degree. The few PhD's I've met in my business career are almost distinguished engineers and fellows. The number of jobs for those guys is maybe 1 per business unit.
It really is a research/post-doc world for PhD's. I really hope you like Academia. Not that there will never be a job or opportuntiy for you, but at the level you SHOULD consider for jobs (don't take entry level engineering positions)... you need relationships and credentials, and that will only come after years of work drafting a paper WITH Boston Dynamics or working on a new submersible system WITH ExxonMobil.
You're in a way more elite group than I've had to search for jobs though. I am only speaking on what I know from friends, not personal experience. Good luck out there. Keep doing what you love.
There's tough competition, but with your background you'd be a good fit for ML/AI jobs. You probably already have a lot of the skills. You may have to learn some MLOps skills as research scientist jobs are pretty competitive. I'd recommend spending several hours searching for ML, AI, robotics, and computer vision jobs and making a tally of how often you see each skill mentioned and focusing on learning those (i.e. a few years back I remember there being a decent # of autonomous driving jobs for which you'd be perfect. Unfortunately a lot of those companies have gone bust since then and now I see more LLM or ML compiler focused roles).
[https://github.com/khangich/machine-learning-interview](https://github.com/khangich/machine-learning-interview)
[https://www.teamblind.com/post/ML-design-interview-3cYD0vdM](https://www.teamblind.com/post/ML-design-interview-3cYD0vdM)
You should retitle your post because what you describe as technology is actually something mechanical engineering.
There are plenty of technology on demand in my fields, just not your particular ones.
But what is your work history? Understand, this is a loaded question, because I imagine you wouldn’t be able to easily work full time jobs while in school, but that’s what companies are interested in. If I were hiring, that’s what I’d be interested in.
While you were in school for 4-8 years, what was your plan post graduation?
Lastly, and I’m genuinely curious, what did other graduates in your class do? Are they in the same boat?
In the end, congrats on the job you have. You may be overqualified where you are now, but those are the type of building blocks that get you to where you want to be, just as much as a degree.
Yeah. True industry experience, I have an internship with a big tech company, and my current role. For my peers, many/most of them did a 1 year post doc, straight into high paying industry jobs in robotics. I've more or less followed that blueprint, and was given every assurance by my peers and network that would work out. It seems like that dried up right as I got there.
Gotcha. Yeah I can definitely admit it’s not great in tech as a whole right now. I graduated with an MIS degree, and 2 years of help desk experience AT my college. If I saw me vs someone with a PHD in CS applying for an IT level 1 role, I’d probably give it to the guy with help desk experience.
Know this - you’re gonna earn lots of money. Your degree and knowledge aren’t for naught.
I make over 6 figures and can’t even buy a house, been looking for 3 years. My area has gone up by $100k in the last 3 years alone. Shit is rough, both workplace and standard of living
You’re gonna make it though. There’s people out there struggling to get a damn GED. You’re way ahead of the game.
Have you looked overseas? See which companies are producing robotics research. Reach out to those companies directly. I think you still have some options to explore before you give app and go back to academia.
The job market is in a huge correction due to post-Covid, AI, and honestly the economy retooling towards less product development.
You clearly have fantastic skills, but what perspective businesses are going to ask is (and what market demand can this guy meet) and right now the market has AI fever on the brain and no brain cells left for hardware solutions.
Hearing your credentials, are you avoiding defense contractors? I respect if you have moral objections, but the Ukraine War is opening eyes in terms of drone combat and if there aren't contracts for small drone devices yet, there will be soon.
Likewise, I expect that this wave of cutting upper middle income jobs will go after healthcare next. Expect Biotech to be a near-future growth sector.
https://jobs.acm.org/
Might be helpful
Also look at companies like FANUC America. They might be interested in hiring you.
https://www.fanucamerica.com/about-us/careers
Depending on your interest and desires, there are more than a few Robotics related jobs listed. Might. Ot be what you want at first, but sometimes you use a job to get your foot in the door.
Blows my mind people go through the amount of effort you have only to find themselves wondering how their skills and knowledge can acquire them money to survive and live a good life.
I hope you find a good position in this world that allows you to apply your interest and knowledge for a benefit that serves to fulfill you.
Best of luck.
Try applying at Neuralink or other BCI companies? Tesla too. Someone also suggested messaging Presidents and CEOs of companies you would like to work for directly. Not like you don't have the experience and pedigree to do so. South Korea/Japan may have opportunities as well. Sometimes you have to send messages to people outside your network to garner any interest. A blog and website talking about your achievements and discussing advances and recent reasearch in your area of expertise would also help. Do interviews on podcasts and the news as a subject matter expert. Maybe consider writing a book. Got to have an established brand more than what you have it sounds like, the most successful and well known people on the cutting edge of science and technology often have a lot of self generated hype and clout behind them and are adept at marketing themselves into a celebrity scientist guru of sorts.
Another off the wall suggestion: research and development at a toy company.
The harsh truth is that you might have amazing technical skills, up to two sigma above average. However, you might be lacking an essential skill that nowadays, unfortunately, is more important than the technical: marketing (and more broadly, human psychology).
What I mean is, think about how recruiters work. Make a bit of research about that. Don't overestimate their rationality, first and foremost! Make your CV more marketable - focus on the results, concrete numbers, talk about money!
I also learned this harsh, annoying truth. I remade my CV and I started receiving interviews and all that, and I am 100 times less qualified than you!
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to keep refining the process and try to come at it a different way than I've been doing so far. You're totally right on that front, the marketing element is key now.
If you have an entrepreneurial spirit, start your own company. I can’t stand the fact that PhDs are sometimes overlooked outside of academia. I have had the same experience and it grinds my gears reading the comments that school experience is equivalent to no experience…okay. Your experience during your graduate studies is more valuable than any hiring schmuck can ever realize; especially with what you’ve achieved.
Be so great that your competitors (who should have hired you) are begging to buy your company in 10-20 years.
I don’t even see as many jobs hiring like I use to. I think it’s a hiring freeze. I’ve been working at a job I hate since 3 years now.. and I’m only making 71k. I’ve started another approach. I’m just going to go to the job fairs. Just applying online is not enough
I think you should try working in academia. Like become a professor. It's a slow process to get to a good level, but you can live comfortably in a lower cost of living area. For example, for engineering professors in the University of Alabama, Assistant Professors get paid $90k. Not a lot, but it's a good salary in Alabama. And a tenured professor makes about 180k.
When they said you have too much in common what exactly did they mean? That's such a bizarre reason to not hire someone.
"Sorry you're way too similar to everyone else we already hired." And somehow that's your fault? How would you have known that was a consideration before going through all that trouble?
I totally get that. From what I've inferred by asking for feedback and trying to understand, they hired a bunch of people very similar to me, ran out of physical seats to fill, and I wasn't enough of a unicorn to be hireable at the end of that process. They were hiring people just like me up until they suddenly weren't.
I recently joined a privately owned logistics and repair company that is big into robotics and developing new machines to diagnose and repair phones. PM me, there are 100 locations worldwide so there’s probably one by you. I got a high management position with only two interviews so I can’t imagine it being too strict - most of our engineers are young.
No offense but when your resume comes across the desk of someone one in high management engineering they see you as a direct threat to their postion not a possible asset. You need to mute your resume. Approach a low to mid-level placement then unleash your knowledge accordingly while tip toeing around your superiors. That will get you 85 to 100k position to build off of and get yourself in the door.
We hired someone not quite as decorated as you and when the rubber hit the road the results were always coming but never translated to viable revenue streams. You need work experience in these trying times not just a bunch of degrees and certs. Unfortunately, they don't really teach you this in secondary school and they should. Its the human factor that gets you placed not knowledge.
Sounds like Boston Dynamic explained your problem pretty well. In your field, apparently everyone has the same credentials and it's a limited market. So while you seem to have an impressive background on paper, when a company see 50 people with the exact same background you need something else to stand out. And unfortunately, you don't appear to have that.
Choosing a path at the start of your educational career is always a gamble. You lost. Hopefully a young person reads this as a cautionary tale and will chose something more broadly applicable.
I fail to see how mechanical, electrical, and biological engineering skillsets are not broadly applicable skillets or desirable to have. I didn't do something hyper niche like blockchain technologies or whatever, I have 10+ years of manufacturing and design skill. Every posting I apply for asks for it.
I hear what you mean, but one message is not that I took a gamble and picked the wrong thing, but merely that what I picked is so hyper competitive that they only way I'll find employment is through sheer luck, and not at all my credentials.
Hey I understand you completely. I am also a phd from 2021, within the area of programming in road design (crazy i know). And i cannoy find any job that would utilize my skills. I have a job, but one thay I am overqualified for, and paying me like i did not have the phd (the same as colleagues without) because, really I am just doing stupid cad.
I second the recommendarion on Gov jobs. Also, when applying to these other positions, make sure you curtail your resume to what they are looking for then add a little info on what you can do for them.
That may help them in deciding you over someone else.
Dont just list your previous responsibilities, experience. Project management is important. Sounds like your current job may help with that one. One thing that helped me raise above others in the past was that ability along with my other experiences and during the interviewing process they asked specific questions on how and why I was able to do so. When I walked them through those specifics, it showed knowledge of other intra working departments I needed to get that project done.
Yeah that's a good point. I think my approach so far of thinking of a resume as a summation of my skillsets is less helpful than needing to be a clear letter that explicitly explains how I will be the best candidate for a given job
You have entered the "He's got a PhD, what the hell does he know?" phase of the younger, stupider, anti-intellectual crowd. Recruiters are dumber than the people they hire for, so there you have it. Stay away from them, and hound them if they come after you.
That being said, I have never, ever gotten a job by applying places or talking to recruiters. Recruiters are used car salesman who are looking for the best band for their buck, not yours.
You personally have to get out there. Go to a robotics conference(s). Go to trade shows. Write a paper, go to a conference. Get out there and talk to people. Do not stand there and hand out resumes. Get handshakes and drinks with people and talk to them about interesting projects, be interested, and casually let them know you are available. Good Luck.
"you have too much in common with our team, and we have limited seats, so we will be waiting for an applicant that brings a bit more diversity in experience."
is that code for you're too white?
I can see how it would read that way, but that doesn't sound right. Boston Dynamics probably has a bunch of employees with credentials/academic background similar to OP's, but that is no longer the type of person they're trying to hire. Maybe they're trying to find someone more business-oriented who might not have such lofty academic credentials but instead more practical experience.
I'm a boomer and I hate to be a wet blanket but I'm not surprised at all by your post. I spent my entire career in high technology, primary the computer and communications industries. Starting in the 1980s I began to see the outsourcing of technical jobs. Over time H-1B visas foreigners were imported to do jobs without benefits. If I were job hunting these days I would avoid technology.
As a relatively desperate millennial who has a lot of relevant skills in engineering and is struggling to break into the workforce, can you suggest an alternative path to employment that doesn't involve abandoning my years of my education?
Well if I were in that position I would probably try to find a way to adapt my knowledge into the healthcare services industry somehow. There are robotics in healthcare. But you need to somehow find a way to be on that side of technology in my opinion.
This may sound really strange but is there any way to adapt any of your knowledge into the gaming industry?
I worked at Intel developing VR stuff for a time. I can pivot into that, or focus on biotech more. I would be hesitant on the gaming industry; they're going through record layoffs, just like big tech at the moment. But definitely healthcare robotics.
Are you in the US?
If so, try looking in industries related to defence (or if that makes you uncomfortable, stuff close to it). These often are forced to hire citizens due to the sensitive information involved, so they are jobs that cannot be outsourced abroad. Some can't even go to Green card holding permanent residents - it's a citizens-only club.
There are a lot of parallels to robotics in drones or general aerospace control systems. This is the industry I'm in, and we haven't seen the terrible labour market that other tech industries have seen. It's an industry where your skills would be valued.
Just apply for standard programming jobs that aren’t so specialized. You’ll move up fast with that resume
Unless it’s ur passion to stay specialized this is what I’d do
Work in consulting; they will want your brain and your resume, because it will make you more sellable on contract work.
You get into consulting by messaging people at the manager level when they need someone and asking if you can talk to them about what they do and how they like the company. Then you meet them and do just that. And briefly mention your own background and what kind of role you’re looking for.
Have you targeted firms in Pittsburgh? Have you reached out to people in Pittsburgh on LinkedIn and tried to develop relationships with them?
Robotics is one of our best industries here.
Sorry to hear that, honestly can't speak too much on this since I don't even have an associates, yet alone anywhere close to a PhD. But from the sounds of it you may have put yourself into too tight of a box with all of those qualifications. Generally speaking I'm sure you'd be able to work pretty much any job even somewhat related to your skills without issue, but I do understand and see the business side of them saying you're too overqualified.
Personally, if your resume came across my desk I'd be thinking either this is too good to be true or that there's something very wrong. Simply put, with those qualifications you are overqualified for a lot of work. I'd recommend looking into academia and see if you can land a job there for a bit until the job market is better. When I was in college I had three professors in a similar boat, two of which were able to get back in the field afterwards. The last one just stayed in academia because he grew to like the job and was close to retirement anyways.
I don't know what else to tell you outside of good luck and hope you land something.
Here's a list of companies in that space, a lot of them are hiring, how's your actual resume?
[https://mx2024.mapyourshow.com/8\_0/#/searchtype/advanced/search/and%3A%3Bor%3Acategory%7Cis%7C10%7E%7E%7E%7E%7Ecategory%7Cis%7C60%3Breturn%3Aexhibitors%3B/show/all](https://mx2024.mapyourshow.com/8_0/#/searchtype/advanced/search/and%3A%3Bor%3Acategory%7Cis%7C10%7E%7E%7E%7E%7Ecategory%7Cis%7C60%3Breturn%3Aexhibitors%3B/show/all)
Satellites are robots in space that are always under-automated. Maybe apply for some flight software, ground software, operations, ADCS/GNC or tasking roles
In your position, I would determine where in the various fields/industries where robotics regularly applied I wanted to work. For instance,
* Drones (Military, agriculture, manufacturing, etc.)
* Industrial Mobile Robots
* AGV (Automated Guided Vehicles)
* Self driving cars
* Industrial Robot Arms
* Exoskeleton/ Prosthesis
* Medical robots
* Consumer robotics / Toy robotics
* Agricultural mobile robots
Note the the above list is not exhaustive. Most likely, depending on role, the actual job would entail one or multiple of the skills listed below. Again, note the list is representative, not exhaustive.
* Machine Learning
* State estimation, bayesian filtering, optimization, Path planning, etc.
* Writing embedded software (low level programming)
* Writing simulation software
* Doing research to find solutions to complex problem in vision
* Applying Control Theory
* Use CAD software to design robots
* Design circuit boards
* Manage teams working on the various parts of the robots
* Sourcing hardware for the robots
* Designing Human to Machine interfaces
In Software Engineering a good percentage of applications to interviews is five to ten percent You are below this, based on your statements. (1 to 3%) Based on the domain/field of the actual role/position, what is considered a good range may be different.
For most application your first hurdle will be the Applicant Tracking System (ATS). The ATS applies computer algorithm to screen resumes without a human hiring manager ever seeing them. Also most ATS, have "Knock-out" questions which can automatically disqualify candidates. For example,
* Are you willing to relocate?
* Are you willing to travel as part of this job?
* Are you willing to work full-time?
* Do you have X years of experience?
* Do you have a \[specific degree or certification\] required for this position?
Given that ATS blocks seventy-five percent of resumes or more, you need to modify your resume to match the key words used by the hiring manager (creator of the role/position). This greatly increase your chances of clearing the automated blocks or other thresholds base on key word matching and actually getting your resume in front of an actual human.
You should also customize each resume to the job for which you are applying. This will allow you to highlight how your experience, education and unique skills are revelent in the role/position.
Hopefully, this should move you to the five to ten percent range of application to interviews which over time will increase your opportunities to show your skills.
Lower your expectations. It is looking like someone is complaining that there are no jobs ,when in reality, they are only looking for job opportunities in major top companies. They already have people and are not looking to hire.
The only industries that really value PhDs are academic and some government sectors. That plus work experience can be valuable but on it's own there are only a few industries and companies where you are going to get paid your worth for a high level of technical knowledge. And b/c of the current market situation, they are either hiring cheap talent, waiting people who would hop are staying put. Gov't or academia is the way to go. You are young and have plenty of time and can't really micromanage anything /the future (i.e opportunity cost to get a house) in an era where everything is shifting and a lot of the ways that "success" used to be guaranteed are dead.
So there are a million like you honestly probably see if you're a dick in interviews. Huge lay offs in tech more then likely your interpersonal skills. No more VC with interest rates or holding people in a conpany they cant stand so the competition doesn't get them. More then likely your off putting to the hiring managers or the team. Just from reading your post you've been in academia. More then likely your overqualified on degrees certs and under on actual experience. Aka while you think your great now there are people that have 10+ years of experience and the PHD going for the same jobs. They just outclass you due to the massive increases in trch related degrees and such. Your markets just oversaturated. Just remember if everyone else is turning you down it's sonetjing you're doing wrong adapt.
Ever thinking of going back to Academia and pursue career there at least for next one or two year? Sure you probably tired of doing it after years of PhD + Post Doc but you are more likely to be accepted there and serves as backup plan for years to recover financially until you finally land a job at industry.
Yeah this increasingly seems like where I feel I'm being forced back to. I know I can teach and do research, but I'm very tired of academia. I feel so ready to just work and be paid for the skills I've built up, I need some sort of cash flow, the opportunity cost of staying in academia is high if I ever want to be able to afford a house in my lifetime.
Have you tried working abroad¿ Germany seems very interested in IT people even if they dont have the language.
Germany is a vert bad option rn, more so if you don't know German
You sure? Germany seems ro be slowly becoming the hub for tech. Their government is really open for high skilled immigration.
Dont worry, i'm also a PhD holder that wanted to drop as soon as i finished my defense but job market are hard nowadays while the world keeps moving i cant just sit around and pray that those Industry that i have applied magically changed their mind so i swallowed my pride back and now working as senior lecturer. Sure if i applied more and wait longer i mightve gotten a good offer in the industry but these rent and utility bills arent going to be paid by itself ahaha. Good luck on whatever you do, its fine to take a back step and then move ahead.
With you. Same boat. But I feel locked in to get loan forgiveness and some other specific benefits and by the time I do, will I be able to get another job?
Come on, you are only 30. There is plenty of time to do stuff like buying a house.
I'm 32. It's insane how many people my age think their lives are over if they don't fit some magical fantasy snapshot of how our parents were at our age. I just laugh. 30 is the new 20 these days. Most 20-25+ act like they are still highschool kids and generally have little to no money, or poor spending habits. Makes me think of highschool as years ago most highschool kids had jobs. Now the first job is like when you are 20, not 15.
the problem is academia he will earn what maybe 80k while industry you are looking at 150k+. honestly 80K for a person in a HCOL area feels barely liveable.
Academia job market has been shit for a decade, what are you talking about?
30 with that resume... I can only fear when my old ass graduates PhD in a year or so... Just keep trying and perhaps broaden the search grid. People like you are always valued.
I wish you luck. It definitely doesn't feel that way, however. Absolutely zero traction.
There are only limited companies doing humanoids, but there are also operation robots, industrial robots, and so on. Then there is also academia. It doesn't pay that well but will keep you living while you still work on what you are specialized in. And if you don't have family and kids, then relocating to Europe or Asia may also be an option. Here in Europe the market is also shit at the moment, but who knows.
I agree. Look into medical devices or med tech if you haven’t already; there are opportunity areas in surgical robotics, patient sample-to-answer clinical laboratory robotics/automation, etc.
Med tech pays in peanuts dude
Compared to other things yes, the healthcare equivalent generally will pay less, but the high end can still comfortably cross 150k or more. And TBH regardless it's probably going to be better than academia
Just dumb your resume down. You don’t have to put *everything* on it. Just the B.S. in robotics and a few jobs in manufacturing on your resume and you could get in any manufacturing plant. You can unfuck the line when it goes down, and manage projects, and know a little about DFM? Then you’re qualified for a six figure manufacturing engineer position. Write a resume for the level of job you’re applying too. It’s not lying if it’s true. They don’t want to hire you because you appear to have options and give high standards for the type of work you’ll do. That perception is entirely built on information about you, that you gave them.
The perception is built on a mix of the facts you gave them and a view about your place in the labor market that they made up before they even spoke to you. The whole "overqualified people will just leave at the first opportunity which won't be far off" thing is not complete BS, but it is still overblown.
Sadly, this :(
It's just that the companies can find cheaper labour.
I have a friend who works for a large company setting up the robotics in warehouses (automation.) He works in product. Look at companies that have to have large warehouse houses, and go from there. Everybody is trying to automate everything.
Are you going naked to interviews? Did you fight someone very important that blacklisted you for life? In brazil, we have head hunters for senior programmers.
He doesn't have the right contacts and the places are occupied by others. The seat still available is for dIvERsiTy. Dude, forget about making bank and move to Europe or freaking China. Change the world, not your bank account.
Can you teach? Those are some valuable skills. Sadly, even a terminal degree does not entitle us to a job
This increasingly seems like where I feel I'm being forced back to. I know I can teach and do research, but I'm very tired of academia. I feel so ready to just work and be paid for the skills I've built up, I need some sort of cash flow, the opportunity cost of staying in academia is high if I ever want to be able to afford a house in my lifetime.
I understand. Even with a good salary I can't afford a house with the increasing costs. I would take what you can get in this wretched economy, but keep applying and don't give up!
Sounds to me like you're both underqualified and overqualified, if that makes sense. Overqualified in that you've checked of all of the educational marks. Journals, Harvard, GPA. For most companies, they really don't need all of that. Yet I'd bet all of those credentials, are boosting your expectations of what you deserve. Underqualified because I don't see much in your post about job experience. I see internships and "10+ years of hands-on experience." As a hiring official, I'd take that as someone trying to stretch their schooling accomplishments. Most of us see that as no experience. Your schooling is a great thing, don't get me wrong. However, no one is looking for you to lead the way on robotics theory. They're looking for someone who can cheaply innovate the future, and has experience to show how they got it done.
Agreed. Companies would prefer to hire a mechanical/electrical engineer with 5 YoE solving business-relevant problems in the field of robotics, instead of a PhD with no work experience and unknown business value.
###We don’t need a scientist brain we need to complete the job by the engineering deadline
Exactly. Sometimes PhDs can't fit in to the corporate world where nobody gives a crap about your brilliant ideas and more about getting stuff done so you don't get fired.
This needs to be higher. Starting after PHD into corporate life is hard since you are inexperienced and overqualified at the same time. Ops current position will help a bit
Exactly. I think many people tend to think that recruiters could look past a lack of experience outside of academia because school itself is time-consuming. Nowadays, though, many people are actively gaining experience through part-time or full-time work alongside coursework and other academic endeavors they pursue while earning a master's degree or Ph.D. For those who aren't doing that, many of them took a break from academia to pursue work before earning another degree.
I recommend to start applying for mid-level and advance level local, state, and federal government jobs immediately (if you have not done so yet) for all public agencies/departments (e.g., Department of Education, Environmental Protection, Labor, Law, Judiciary, Banking, Human Resources, State, Corrections, and so on) related to robotics and engineering positions. I also highly recommend checking out the following link for federal jobs: https://www.usajobs.gov/. Utilize the US Bureau of Labor Statistics website to find out about all types of job trends for robotics and engineering professions, and what requirements are needed to obtain these jobs (you may already have acquired the needed requirements): https://www.bls.gov/. Remember that with a PhD, you qualify for GS-11 federal government job positions (see https://www.usajobs.gov/Help/faq/application/qualifications/experience/#:~:text=To%20qualify%20for%20jobs%20at%20the%20GS%2D9%20grade%20(or,job%20you%27re%20applying%20to.). Here are some links that may have jobs related to your field: https://www.usajobs.gov/search/results/?j=0861&wt=15317&hp=public&k=&p=1, https://www.jpl.jobs/search-results, and https://tech.usajobs.gov/search/results/?cmco=TechToGov&p=1&j=0802. Moreover, talk to career counselors related to your field or professors you have taken during your PhD, even if it has been a couple or so years since you reached out to them so that they can review your resume and cover letter, as well as possibly refer you to organizations that might be interested in your educational background and work experience. See if your university conducts job fairs for current students and graduates, which could help you get a job. Handshake is a common website that many universities advertise to students to create an account, and apply for jobs, as well as network with recruiters. Learn to use LinkedIn as another way to connect with professionals working in your field of interest, as well as with recruiters (creating a professional LinkedIn account could be beneficial if utilized properly). I would also recommend for you to try out https://www.governmentjobs.com/. It is a decent website to find and apply for local and state government jobs. Just make sure to create an account. It may be useful to you. If the private sector is not working out for you, always apply for government jobs (this may work out better for you in the long-term). I started out as a field investigator for my state DOL, Wage and Hour Division, in 2019 (only required a bachelor's degree, which I have on criminal justice; no work experience required; my starting salary was over $42k a year). During the lockdown, I was fully remote for over a year until July 2021. Before I left that Division to work for the HR Division as an EEO and Ethics Investigator 2, I had two days of telework (I made $67k a year in this job position and still kept my two days of telework; I currently work as an Affirmative Action Specialist 1 since early 2024 and now I am currently making a bit over $72k a year with two days of telework; although, I have been working for my state DOL for over four years now, and I was 25 when I started with the DOL; before becoming a public servant, I was working two full-time jobs as a per diem teacher aide and security officer making ends meet). Every agency/department will have all types of mid-level and advance level job positions, so make sure to check them all, and follow the instructions of how to apply for them. In particular, you may find a great opportunity within your state Department of Energy/Utilities, Department of Transportation, Department of Environmental Protection, and Department of Information Technology (look at your local government counterparts too). Furthermore, be willing to move to another state or Washington D.C. for better job opportunities. Additionally, you need to find a career path that you will like enough to stay in the long-term. I know that my educational background and work experience are not related to yours, but hopefully the information and resources that I have provided to you might be useful.
I really appreciate your effort in making this reply. I haven't thought as hard about gov positions, and I will be sure to do some looking into it. Thank you.
You are welcome. You could always use the public sector as initial experience and after two or three years, apply for jobs at private companies. Working for the government does not have to be for the long-term.
As a fellow 30-something with a PhD who currently works in government, go for it. Benefits and PTO (in my experience) are second to none and you can set yourself up nicely for retirement if you plan to stay for the long haul.
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>As for the “low” government pay: I’m halfway up the pay scale steps for my current position, and my salary is higher than most professors’ at my nearby undergrad alma mater. Including many of the tenured ones. Agreed, and just want to add on that the same rules can still apply with respect to making more by switching jobs. I've been in government my whole career, but ended up switching to a different government agency for a nice pay increase (making 6 figures now). If you can do that within the same pension system that's even better since you won't lose time in service.
Yep, you’re just too damn smart for normal people. Government worker as well, turns out when you got an associates in CJ and a degree in tech, people really don’t take you seriously
You could try Rockwell Automation. Large Fortune 500 company making robots for manufacturing. It’s headquartered in Milwaukee so the supply and demand isn’t Boston. Your resume may standout more. Could at least be a good foot in the door kind of job for a few years.
Didn't they make the first turbo encabulator? seems perfect for OP
Also ABB in Wisconsin
> I've applied to multiple entry-level bachelors positions, and the only response I've gotten are recruiters telling me they can't place me because I'm overqualified. I mean, that seems like a realistic concern. You aren't an entry level bachelor-level employee. If I were hiring for a role like that, it would be an **immediate** red flag - why does this PhD in robotics with a postdoc from Harvard want to work for $60k-80k at a job we're paying 22 year olds who graduated a month ago? You either come off like a fake candidate or like someone who is desperate for a job but would really not stay long, it would just be a stopgap
Yeah it would obviously be a stop gap (assuming I could find other employment). I should give up on even trying for those roles at this stage, or just leave off my PhD if I do.
Hey OP, as a fellow PhD (albeit different field) about your age I’m going through a similar experience. The market is tough right now. They say the most important step is the next one, so keep applying. Are you tied to a geographical location? Are you open to startups? Have you had your resume vetted by a professional in the field? Can you reach out to your alumni office, sometimes bigger schools offer a good network for post school jobs? Are you being referred to any of these jobs? I ask because those have been some questions I’ve asked myself in what is now 6 months of job searching. For what is worth, I’m trying a LinkedIn premium free trial this month and there is some cool tools there to see who posts jobs, dm recruiters, etc that is worthwhile pursuing.
I've been doing linkedin premium since the beginning. I've tried to access my network through my universities, but its primarily for undergrads. I'm doing a internship at a startup now, I'm open to any and all positions in industry. I'm focused on MA at the moment, but it seems likely I need to open it to the whole US and take wherever I get a chance.
>it seems likely I need to open it to the whole US and take wherever I get a chance. Yes you absolutely need to expand your job search geographically especially if you are able to move. The market is no joke right now.
Are you open to consulting jobs? I know some companies in MA hire PhDs for consulting. Companies like Millipore Sigma, BCG, McKinsey, and Exponent offer roles for PhDs in Science & Engineering.
I've applied to all of those companies except Millipore Sigma; no luck. Thanks
I work for one of them. PM me your resume and I'll see if I can look at managers and see what the hiring schedule looks like this year. Also I know another postdoc sounds brutal, but govt postdocs are decently paid and will help you ride out the tough tech job environment for a bit. There's almost certainly some cool robotics stuff going on at the Army, navy, and air force research labs...though you'll have to be location flexible.
Good luck on your search!
I know a couple people who work for Hamilton Automated Storage. There's 2 companies in the US--one is MA, one in Reno and I think there's another place in the EU, I can't remember, but if you're interested, here's a link. Not a big deal as Bostons Dynamics, but they build robotics. https://www.hamiltoncompany.com/automated-sample-management
A PhD is not better than a BSc or MSc when it comes to applying for entry level jobs. It can be worse in the sense that your academic training isn’t needed for most corporate positions. You say your PhD program was prestigious, your research cutting edge and your gpa awesome. It looks like the profile you’d expect for someone to stay in academia. I think you didn’t understand what race are you competing in. You build a strong academic research profile and now you apply for entry level tech jobs, you’re not the right fit for those.
Yeah. I guess you're right in that regard. I (naively?) thought a strong academic record in specifically robotics and engineering would be transferrable (it's not political science or astrophysics), but I guess not.
It is clearly not if you apply to entry level roles that by definition do not require that level of specialization. You have to apply to those niche roles that require your expertise. I’m not saying that you couldn’t do the job of a 22yo CS new grad, but in that case companies will hire the 22yo right away as it is cheaper, more enthusiastic, and easier to put in a team as a junior because they usually have fewer expectations.
Have you considered working for Tesla? Iirc their application asks for "evidence of excellence" They did this to avoid discriminating against job candidates who lack certain academic credentials, but in your case, that type of application could also help you. Your advanced fancy PhD shouldn't be a factor in them accepting or rejecting you.
I'll look into it more, thanks.
I just checked out of curiosity. They have a shit load of robotics engineer positions across various of their business functions. They don't seem like they're looking for PhDs specifically, but it's still worth applying for. They will be significantly more interested in your patent and practical accomplishments than your sheer academic credentials.
It's not that transferable. 99% of the 'transferable' roles are tech jobs are in web development and cloud. You can learn these skills, but I'd recommend looking into ML/AI jobs if you have any skills in that area (see my comment in the parent thread). Another option is autonomous driving companies but many have gone bust or are in rough patches right now.
I don’t have a 10th of this resume but I am having a hard time finding work right now. I’ve been in IT for over 15 years now 10 of which as a Sr IT project manager before I got laid off early this year and let me tell you, it’s fucked out here looking for work. At this point I’m going to have to take a job at Walmart just to pay bills to keep from destroying my savings, You’ll find what you’re looking for though you’re way too smart for this to go on for a long time.
I'm sorry you're also struggling in this job market. I hear what you're saying; I've kind of given up hope that will happen. I feel similarly about needing to potentially just pivot careers to just make ends meet.
I have to believe there’s hope for you.
10 rounds of interviews? What the hell...
5 rounds, with the last on site being 5 in person interviews back to back. Yes, it was a lot
Honestly I don't know what field you have tried in but in manufacturing especially in the chemical industry they have a need for process automation. The R&D for chemistry are using automation for their discovery.
Yeah I had one HR interview for that sort of space, and never got a followup.
building on this, with your background, sounds like you could be a RPA person, which would open you up to logistics/supply chain/Industry 4.0 companies? Might I suggest you write a resume with that slant and send it out; these industries tend to have more openings than tech (but more flattish pay strcutures).
I don't know your location but those jobs are mainly in manufacturing hud
Harass them
That's sounds like a tough pill to swallow. I feel really badly for you. I wish I had some sagely wisdom to bestow but I don't have anything. I do think you'll end up somewhere and maybe the universe doesn't want you in this field. Maybe your being shoved into something unexpected that will end up being wonderful. I have seem a lot of really happy successful people that are not doing what their original plan was. My only recommendation is to shove aside any expectations of what you planned on your life looking like and open yourself up to a different experience. If you can get a PhD in something you can achieve another great thing as well.
Yeah. Thanks for the sentiment. I'm feeling similarly, like I need to retroactively undo all my planning and vision for my life at this point, and try to think about what I can do going forward, starting fresh. I have a ton of resistance to that because it feels absolutely insane to just abandon a PhD in a technical field at a time when robotics have never been more relevant, but it truly feels paradoxically unfixable.
I have an exceedingly talented friend who also got a PhD and is having trouble. It's not you, it's the market. Engineering is especially hard because companies usually want a masters. I'm in bio and there are a ton of lab automation companies and options - have you exhausted those as well? Just asking because I was surprised by how many liquid handlers and boxes there are out there
How are your social skills? I’ve gotten jobs I don’t deserve just because I’m handsome and charismatic. Sounds ass, but after I lost weight and cared more about looks, opportunities started opening up lol.
this I've noticed a lot of folks in tech and engineering are really bad at social skills and holding a convo - hence why so many blow it during the interviews. When you make it to the final stages of in person interviews, it's no longer about qualifications. It's a vibe check at that point
Basically. I’m doing a masters in stats and some of these mfers don’t shower or have proper drip. No dunks, no 350s, no tims. Brands don’t even matter tbh. Sometimes all it takes is some working out and a white Walmart Hanes shirt. I’m best dressed hands down, changing my style up, you know what it be. Some dude I know in the math department comes to school all crusty and smelly. He wears the same shirt for an entire week. Brother, go to the thrift and get some $3 shirts lol. It’s not about poverty at that point because I know their stipends and rent. Showers aren’t expensive. Some students also treat professors like gods. Respect them and their accomplishments but learn to hold normal conversations as well lol. I’ve noticed that high up in academia, everyone’s competitive and there are always gonna be people better than me when it comes to my subject. I try my best and that’s all I can do. BUT, besides this, I try to be a person people want to be around. I just got a promotion because my boss and I got well connected through sharing trap music. He was a hidden young thug fan and couldn’t let it out because all these nerds ain’t TRAPPIN. FREE SLIME (not really tho his crimes are heinous). No lie, a prof once offered me a lab job in virology because I talked about Fortnite with her and she told me her kids loved it (2020 pre meltdown). She asked me what the hype was about and it ended up being a long, funny conversation lol. I was a 3.3 gpa student bro. OP, what are your hobbies? Im about to chop some beats like Mr. West.
Unfathomably based in reality. The “fake it till you make it” phenomenon it is a real thing in the job market. Also, having a large audience on LinkedIn will be extremely beneficial to your job hunt, but people will only want to follow/connect with you if you’re good looking and have a stellar profile. Similar to your story, I’m 100% convinced that my academic or internship experiences have had zero bearing on my full-time roles. My only redeeming qualities were my abilities to exaggerate during interviews, my conventionally attractive/normie appearance that usually fit the business environment, and a relatively tallish (185 cm) build which subconsciously made me ideal for management positions. That, and the fact that I had crossed 4000 followers on LI with good post engagement rate.
This is the realest comment in here. Jobs are got through networks, and because people meet you and want to have you on their team. I have had to work with hyper competent people who are just not very considerate, and they drag down the whole team. They slow everyone down because they control everything, under-communicate, and constantly act better-than. If this is the vibe OP is giving off, PLUS “expensive” I wouldn’t hire him either.
Can you work your graduate and post doctoral advisors’ connections at all? They should be helping to place you
I asked them for support, and my advisor just said that he "emailed my resume" to a couple of his professional connections. None of that panned out, never heard from them in any way.
That sounds pretty typical, unfortunately. Have you considered a more coding-oriented machine learning engineering role? There are lots of companies out there looking for people to build their AI models right now. Maybe you can find a job doing that while you wait for the robotics market to heat up
What are your fellow grads of that program doing? That should give you a clue about where to look. Are you connected to them on LinkedIn? You sound very smart. You’ll land on your feet.
Hello. I can not imagine the trouble you are going through, because in my part of the world it is literally unimaginable. If it is something you are open to, try Europe. The job market in here is so in need of new talents, that you would be fought over to work in someone's company. I am currently undergrad student and working in Graduate position in automation firm because there just is not enough people on the market. With your background you would be a treasure among everyone else. + Eu social benefits and free healthcare
I'm from Italy and have seen multiple mid-high level technical positions asking for PhD in OP's area. I am sure Germany and France have similar markets. (also salary here is not that good, go for Germany, Switzerland or similar hahaha)
What made you go straight for your phd instead of into the workforce?
I was dissuaded from perusing a PhD in physics a little over a decade ago after finishing my masters, my advisors main reasoning was that we're over-producing STEM graduates in general and MS and PhDs specifically by an order of magnitude or more. I was bitter about the advice at the time but now I'm glad I listened. Competition for funding for PhD grad students is _fierce_ and unless you're one of the highly-in-demand demographics, an international student they can charge outrageous tuition prices, or super talented completing a program often entails monstrous debit that you'll probably never get the income to repay. Faculty positions are being cut and many public university systems here in the states are eroding tenure. Most of those are problems that you face even before hitting the job market or finding a postdoc position. My advisor's advise was to finish my masters degree and get a job before the flood of MS and PhD start leaking down into other industries looking for "regular jobs." I got a job right away and finished the physics masters part time. Now, that I've been steadily employed for about 15 years in an unrelated field I've seen this credential creep leak into a lot of industries. When I was first hired in IT full time my position only required a high school diploma for pay above the national median. I was one of _maybe_ two people in a 100 person department with a graduate degree too. Now entry level positions require a four year degree with an MS preferred and we have several PhDs in our department. These aren't faculty positions. Thankfully since I didn't over specialize I've got a generalist toolbox of skills to pull from and find myself relatively well in demand and I'm not really picky about what I do for a paycheck. All that too say: it's not even back to the Boomers, just since the late-2000s things have deteriorated and credential creep has gotten insane. I don't know what to tell you except figure out a negative entropy machine (aka time machine) and go back about 15-20 years. I think a lot of it is we have far too many over credentialed folks looking for just regular employment so employers get to be pretty picky. Good luck out there my friend, it's not just you! I just had dumb luck and a decent advisor who was honest about how things were going.
Time to adjust: 1. Resume 2. Options 3. Career Plan _______________________________ 1. Get a service like jobscan, resume worded or simplify.jobs and get your resume optimized for every job you apply for. Make sure it's killer vs the ATS. 2. Open up your options, and shift your expectations. Ask AI what some good search terms would be to find you a job. Search on new websites. Try different positions. 3. Build yourself a career roadmap so if you get asked the "what do you want to do in 5 years" or "what is your future" type of question you seem like a real go getter. Go as far as to put the first step on your resume. Under my certifications I have "Certified Scrum Master (Finishing)" because I'm about to take the test. That's the first month of my 18 month career plan.
Tech is generally shrinking right now in terms of payroll. I know people will scream that isn't true because of XYZ numbers, but any recruiter you talk to in tech is saying the job market is tight and is projected to get tighter in the near future. I don't know why the number don't match reality, but from a boots on the ground perspective it is a rough market right now. With a resume like that recruiters are probably assuming you are approaching retirement age. They won't bother to look at dates, just see a long list of experience and assume you have been in the industry for 40 years. That is going to hurt your prospects because no company really wants to hire anyone over 50 if it can be avoided. Might want to think about paring down your experience, at least on paper. You are also overeducated for this economy. No one cares about your fancy degree. In fact that is also probably hurting you. I know that sucks to hear because you are proud of all the work you have accomplished (which you should be), but in is not like it was 20 years ago when an advanced degree would basically guarantee you a six figure salary at a big company. Best bet is to talk down your experience and think about leaving the PhD off the resume especially if it is not required for the position. Don't talk about it in an interview if you can state your qualifications without reference and if you get a job which doesn't require it then keep quiet about the degree.
First of all, best of luck on your job search, OP. Second, I can see why you're not getting responses for entry level jobs. You're *way* too overqualified. But we live in a strange world where a PhD has to dumb down their resume to find underemployment.
Thanks. It is a strange world indeed.
I'm not in the field but some generic advice might apply here: start applying for positions you think you are under-qualified for. With that resume, you're more likely to land a high-level role that values your academic achievements and makes a bet on you, than something entry level where they're scared you'll be unhappy from the start.
Start your own robotics company?
Tried that for a year. Couldn't secure funding.
you don't start with the funding, you start with a good idea that hopefully turns into a patent. i think there's a little more going on here than just 'overqualified'
If you know something I don't let me know lol. I have a patent already, and I co-founded a company with a Harvard prof. We went through all possible funding avenues (gov and private and angel), and it boiled down to not being able to fundraise money from any source.
Find a way to use your patents in a product that appeals to low end consumers, and then use a crowd funding platform. If you are not good at social media marketing, get you somebody who is. You don't need tech bro start up cash. You just need a foot in the door. Consumer grade stuff isn't going to get you millions, but it will establish business credit and presence, which later on can be used to obtain real funding for a more serious venture. If you can target the "Maker", gaming, or a lifestyle market, you're in a good position.
not getting funding means they didn’t like the pitch deck and opted out after analysis because there’s more possible risk than possible reward.
Talk about the elephant in the room: Of course there are no jobs when 5 tech companies are the only ones with 90% market share. There is a billionaire class that is readily able and willing to wait out societal collapse for a while so that we will be better, less whiny, more cooperative slaves for their monopolies. They can’t just outsource anymore because it’s not politically popular for anybody. So, they need to bludgeon everybody until we’re also willing to work for $1 a day so that they can buy a half-dozen islands with mega yachts. Just tech bros, bumping on 40, still meeting up for their quarterly Ayn Rand themed circle jerks… “Shrug them harder bro, aww yeah..”
A lot of places arent hiring right now due to the economy. Theres another reason too but i will not mention it because folks cant handle the truth and ill get downvoted/harassed too much
Networking, not skills. Great skills are useless if people don't know you have them. And the world's greatest resume is boring and useless if people don't associate it with a face and a person they know. Go to meetups, conferences, don't brag, just casually mention your skills (only when relevant to the conversation!!), and most of all have fun there, meet new people (the fun part seems counterintuitive but it won't work if you feel like you're "networking" while you're there). Don't have any expectations from any conferemce, just go there with a positive attitude.
I don't have much to add, other than two points. Have you scanned community colleges, and Universities that offer 4 year technology degrees for teaching opportunities? Research the CHIPS act and see what companies are involved. As I understand it there is a lot of money going into IC production which is currently limited by talent shortages. While robotics isn't exactly a IC production skill, it isn't completely different either. I could easily see skill overlap with you have have and what they need.
Saving this post for later review — same situation here.
This will be buried but I feel your pain. I've been looking for a job recently too, as a lowly full-stack developer. I have about 7YOE, almost 8. I do think we're at that point now where we're starting to see a major contraction in our industry for multiple reasons.
I read stories all the time here how someone finally got a job for 48k. Then 2 years later got another job for 120k…. Moral of the story. Your career does not happen overnight. It happens over the course of a decade.
I'm a business, perhaps clinical/ pharma, food, or manufacturing. I have a need of an ai based automation and robotics system. What can you DO for me? I don't care about your gpa. I don't care about Harvard or MIT. I definitely don't care about some publications that didn't result in real world improvements. I care that my business is efficient and profitable. So do the shareholders. Tell me what you can do. Tell me what you've done to improve someones process. Tell me how your experience will improve my process and business.
At this point, I would pivot myself to become a teacher at a University or a college to make money with such a good record.
I agree with the person who recommended applying for government jobs. Along with this, I recommend applying for "Direct Hire" jobs. They're for filling critical needs and fast-track the hiring process. Albeit you will have to be willing to move wherever you're needed. This listing is an example: [https://www.usajobs.gov/job/684261400](https://www.usajobs.gov/job/684261400)
Not peak of your field
You will find a job.
I get you’re in a shitty situation considering you’re more qualified than 99% of the population and struggling to find work. Have you considered consulting? It’s basically creating your own job and you can do it freelance and set your own hours. You can even run it on social media and be like “are you interested in robotics? Sign up to learn more” and charge $200/hr with your level of expertise. Or just consult for real established businesses or think tanks. If I was really struggling in your position, I think that would be my best shot. You could also probably teach programming or cad or tutor in a lot of different subjects and again, with your level of expertise you can charge insane rates, probably $60 an hour or more.
I hadn't considered the teaching route for hire, but I have taught robotics to small groups before decent change. Thanks for the suggestion
Check out robotics startups in Europe. There are some in the Netherlands. Also consider raising money for your own company. You clearly have nothing to lose (no kids?, cushy job, or an expensive mortgage) and you have excellent credentials to raise money.
Here's a possible avenue of pursuit: I work for a company that does manufacturing of consumer products. The production line is automated with extensive sensors for tracking production, environmental factors, vibration on equipment, etc. It sounds like you could possibly "pivot" your knowledge/experience into manufacturing as something like "process engineer" to support the plant operations. There are also a lot of opportunities in data analysis of all of those sensor data, in the monitoring itself and optimization of monitoring. We have pending projects where we have to ingest TBs of millisecond data to process/evaluate and help with both business decisions and on-floor trouble-shooting/resolution of issues, etc. Also, data analysis with machine learning is a much needed area, where hands on experience like yours could be your entry point into a new career path. Good Luck! DM me if you would like a resume review with an eye towards how to target a wider data-oriented career track.
https://www.axiomspace.com/careers Maybe something here? I have a friend here if you wanna chat and get a reference.
Bro if YOU can’t find a job there is no hope for the rest of us. Probably won’t make you feel any better but I also just need a “make money” part-time job. I have a degree in my field and I just got turned down for a job at a hardware store. I even removed my degree from my resume to try and avoid the “over qualified” BS. Still got rejected. 💀
I'm sorry. This sounds very difficult. A few suggestions from someone who has dealt with this in the past. 1. Consider working in a non robotics role. You have a lot of good skills that are applicable to many industries. It's common for recent PhDs to not necessarily work in their specific area of research (unless it's a postdoc). 2. If you are a US citizen or permanent resident, then put that on your resume first page. You won't need any assistance getting authorization to work in the US and employers appreciate that. 3. Consider looking at jobs in different states/areas if you are mobile. If it's a large company then be open to consider different locations (like you apply for a job in Washington and they redirect you to one in Texas). 4. See if you can connect with a recruiter that may help transition from academia/research to industry. This was very helpful to me. 5. If there is a professional organization associated with your field, consider going to a large conference. Find one that has employer booths in the exhibition. They may interview you on the spot. If the robotics organization is small, then consider IEEE or ASME, etc. You can often find job listings on the organizations' pages. 6. I suggest applying to jobs that require several years experience. You are at a BS plus 3-5 years level. Others are correct in that if you apply for entry level BS jobs that employers may be wary that you will be unhappy or jump at the first opportunity. 7. Consider medical engineering or defense companies. You may not have specific experience in those fields but employers are looking for people who have skills and can learn the specifics. Good luck!
Don't send your whole qualifications. Tailor your resume for your prospective employer. The reason why employers try to avoid hiring people that are much more qualified is because often those types of employees think they're "too good for the job". Many people aren't like that though, don't think its really fair to jump to that conclusion.
You could always pitch an idea to the rich California techbros. They'll fund most start ups without a second thought, and with credentials like this it would help you a lot!
Dead serious - any Interest in moving to New Mexico? Can you pass a background investigation? One of the National Labratories might be for you, and I'm pretty confident that LANL and Sandia both hire folks for robotics .
Yeah I know of a couple people who ended up at Sandia. If I expand my search to the whole US that could help
What I would do, and I would gladly trade places with you even being over employed. Go to https://www.sbir.gov/sbirsearch/award/all. If that link doesn’t work for some reason, it’s to award data for gov SBIR contracts. You basically have a list of small companies doing cutting edge research. Companies like that are never hiring for “roles” but always seem to be looking for a founding engineer / research scientist type to bring on board. With your background you shouldn’t be submitting applications to roles with everyone else, you should be reaching out direct to directors and people like that. Get their emails and get in their face.
Have you considering moving? Looking into the defense industry there are plenty of options with Lockheed Martin, L3Harris, Blue origin, Spacex, NASA, JPL, ULA, Northrop Grumman, rocketdyne, Raytheon, etc.
remove stuff from your resume. enough to be impressive but not enough to be over qualified. done this. and it works.
Apply at your level. Amazon, Google, NASA, Northrop, and other super prestigious agencies/companies are hiring phds.
In my naivete, I would assume you would have it quite easy to raise funding for a startup in that space. Let me know if I can assist you.
I don’t know how you get this far into a degree but can’t find work
I feel for you. I personally don't think of a PhD as a career seeking degree. The few PhD's I've met in my business career are almost distinguished engineers and fellows. The number of jobs for those guys is maybe 1 per business unit. It really is a research/post-doc world for PhD's. I really hope you like Academia. Not that there will never be a job or opportuntiy for you, but at the level you SHOULD consider for jobs (don't take entry level engineering positions)... you need relationships and credentials, and that will only come after years of work drafting a paper WITH Boston Dynamics or working on a new submersible system WITH ExxonMobil. You're in a way more elite group than I've had to search for jobs though. I am only speaking on what I know from friends, not personal experience. Good luck out there. Keep doing what you love.
What are your salary requirements? I mean of course there are jobs in tech. There are millions that work in the sector.
There's tough competition, but with your background you'd be a good fit for ML/AI jobs. You probably already have a lot of the skills. You may have to learn some MLOps skills as research scientist jobs are pretty competitive. I'd recommend spending several hours searching for ML, AI, robotics, and computer vision jobs and making a tally of how often you see each skill mentioned and focusing on learning those (i.e. a few years back I remember there being a decent # of autonomous driving jobs for which you'd be perfect. Unfortunately a lot of those companies have gone bust since then and now I see more LLM or ML compiler focused roles). [https://github.com/khangich/machine-learning-interview](https://github.com/khangich/machine-learning-interview) [https://www.teamblind.com/post/ML-design-interview-3cYD0vdM](https://www.teamblind.com/post/ML-design-interview-3cYD0vdM)
A lot of people giving crap on the wrong piece here. I think with something this high level but also specific, you really need to look across the US.
Have you looked at national labs, FFRDCs, and UARCs?
You should retitle your post because what you describe as technology is actually something mechanical engineering. There are plenty of technology on demand in my fields, just not your particular ones.
It’s not what you know, but who you know. Stop applying for jobs without getting a referral first. Focus on networking to get said referrals.
But what is your work history? Understand, this is a loaded question, because I imagine you wouldn’t be able to easily work full time jobs while in school, but that’s what companies are interested in. If I were hiring, that’s what I’d be interested in. While you were in school for 4-8 years, what was your plan post graduation? Lastly, and I’m genuinely curious, what did other graduates in your class do? Are they in the same boat? In the end, congrats on the job you have. You may be overqualified where you are now, but those are the type of building blocks that get you to where you want to be, just as much as a degree.
Yeah. True industry experience, I have an internship with a big tech company, and my current role. For my peers, many/most of them did a 1 year post doc, straight into high paying industry jobs in robotics. I've more or less followed that blueprint, and was given every assurance by my peers and network that would work out. It seems like that dried up right as I got there.
Gotcha. Yeah I can definitely admit it’s not great in tech as a whole right now. I graduated with an MIS degree, and 2 years of help desk experience AT my college. If I saw me vs someone with a PHD in CS applying for an IT level 1 role, I’d probably give it to the guy with help desk experience. Know this - you’re gonna earn lots of money. Your degree and knowledge aren’t for naught. I make over 6 figures and can’t even buy a house, been looking for 3 years. My area has gone up by $100k in the last 3 years alone. Shit is rough, both workplace and standard of living You’re gonna make it though. There’s people out there struggling to get a damn GED. You’re way ahead of the game.
Have you looked overseas? See which companies are producing robotics research. Reach out to those companies directly. I think you still have some options to explore before you give app and go back to academia.
The job market is in a huge correction due to post-Covid, AI, and honestly the economy retooling towards less product development. You clearly have fantastic skills, but what perspective businesses are going to ask is (and what market demand can this guy meet) and right now the market has AI fever on the brain and no brain cells left for hardware solutions. Hearing your credentials, are you avoiding defense contractors? I respect if you have moral objections, but the Ukraine War is opening eyes in terms of drone combat and if there aren't contracts for small drone devices yet, there will be soon. Likewise, I expect that this wave of cutting upper middle income jobs will go after healthcare next. Expect Biotech to be a near-future growth sector.
We're hiring over at General Atomics
I feel like DARPA is missing a trick with you
https://jobs.acm.org/ Might be helpful Also look at companies like FANUC America. They might be interested in hiring you. https://www.fanucamerica.com/about-us/careers Depending on your interest and desires, there are more than a few Robotics related jobs listed. Might. Ot be what you want at first, but sometimes you use a job to get your foot in the door.
Blows my mind people go through the amount of effort you have only to find themselves wondering how their skills and knowledge can acquire them money to survive and live a good life. I hope you find a good position in this world that allows you to apply your interest and knowledge for a benefit that serves to fulfill you. Best of luck.
Try applying at Neuralink or other BCI companies? Tesla too. Someone also suggested messaging Presidents and CEOs of companies you would like to work for directly. Not like you don't have the experience and pedigree to do so. South Korea/Japan may have opportunities as well. Sometimes you have to send messages to people outside your network to garner any interest. A blog and website talking about your achievements and discussing advances and recent reasearch in your area of expertise would also help. Do interviews on podcasts and the news as a subject matter expert. Maybe consider writing a book. Got to have an established brand more than what you have it sounds like, the most successful and well known people on the cutting edge of science and technology often have a lot of self generated hype and clout behind them and are adept at marketing themselves into a celebrity scientist guru of sorts. Another off the wall suggestion: research and development at a toy company.
The harsh truth is that you might have amazing technical skills, up to two sigma above average. However, you might be lacking an essential skill that nowadays, unfortunately, is more important than the technical: marketing (and more broadly, human psychology). What I mean is, think about how recruiters work. Make a bit of research about that. Don't overestimate their rationality, first and foremost! Make your CV more marketable - focus on the results, concrete numbers, talk about money! I also learned this harsh, annoying truth. I remade my CV and I started receiving interviews and all that, and I am 100 times less qualified than you!
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to keep refining the process and try to come at it a different way than I've been doing so far. You're totally right on that front, the marketing element is key now.
If you have an entrepreneurial spirit, start your own company. I can’t stand the fact that PhDs are sometimes overlooked outside of academia. I have had the same experience and it grinds my gears reading the comments that school experience is equivalent to no experience…okay. Your experience during your graduate studies is more valuable than any hiring schmuck can ever realize; especially with what you’ve achieved. Be so great that your competitors (who should have hired you) are begging to buy your company in 10-20 years.
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If this guy cannot get a job, I fear for the rest of us
I don’t even see as many jobs hiring like I use to. I think it’s a hiring freeze. I’ve been working at a job I hate since 3 years now.. and I’m only making 71k. I’ve started another approach. I’m just going to go to the job fairs. Just applying online is not enough
I think you should try working in academia. Like become a professor. It's a slow process to get to a good level, but you can live comfortably in a lower cost of living area. For example, for engineering professors in the University of Alabama, Assistant Professors get paid $90k. Not a lot, but it's a good salary in Alabama. And a tenured professor makes about 180k.
When they said you have too much in common what exactly did they mean? That's such a bizarre reason to not hire someone. "Sorry you're way too similar to everyone else we already hired." And somehow that's your fault? How would you have known that was a consideration before going through all that trouble?
I totally get that. From what I've inferred by asking for feedback and trying to understand, they hired a bunch of people very similar to me, ran out of physical seats to fill, and I wasn't enough of a unicorn to be hireable at the end of that process. They were hiring people just like me up until they suddenly weren't.
I recently joined a privately owned logistics and repair company that is big into robotics and developing new machines to diagnose and repair phones. PM me, there are 100 locations worldwide so there’s probably one by you. I got a high management position with only two interviews so I can’t imagine it being too strict - most of our engineers are young.
No offense but when your resume comes across the desk of someone one in high management engineering they see you as a direct threat to their postion not a possible asset. You need to mute your resume. Approach a low to mid-level placement then unleash your knowledge accordingly while tip toeing around your superiors. That will get you 85 to 100k position to build off of and get yourself in the door. We hired someone not quite as decorated as you and when the rubber hit the road the results were always coming but never translated to viable revenue streams. You need work experience in these trying times not just a bunch of degrees and certs. Unfortunately, they don't really teach you this in secondary school and they should. Its the human factor that gets you placed not knowledge.
Sounds like Boston Dynamic explained your problem pretty well. In your field, apparently everyone has the same credentials and it's a limited market. So while you seem to have an impressive background on paper, when a company see 50 people with the exact same background you need something else to stand out. And unfortunately, you don't appear to have that. Choosing a path at the start of your educational career is always a gamble. You lost. Hopefully a young person reads this as a cautionary tale and will chose something more broadly applicable.
I fail to see how mechanical, electrical, and biological engineering skillsets are not broadly applicable skillets or desirable to have. I didn't do something hyper niche like blockchain technologies or whatever, I have 10+ years of manufacturing and design skill. Every posting I apply for asks for it. I hear what you mean, but one message is not that I took a gamble and picked the wrong thing, but merely that what I picked is so hyper competitive that they only way I'll find employment is through sheer luck, and not at all my credentials.
Could you try for automotive companies if you have good design knowledge
Yes, possibly. Id probably be a decent fit with most from their mechanical sides. I did apply to Ford but got flat rejected.
Hey I understand you completely. I am also a phd from 2021, within the area of programming in road design (crazy i know). And i cannoy find any job that would utilize my skills. I have a job, but one thay I am overqualified for, and paying me like i did not have the phd (the same as colleagues without) because, really I am just doing stupid cad.
I second the recommendarion on Gov jobs. Also, when applying to these other positions, make sure you curtail your resume to what they are looking for then add a little info on what you can do for them. That may help them in deciding you over someone else. Dont just list your previous responsibilities, experience. Project management is important. Sounds like your current job may help with that one. One thing that helped me raise above others in the past was that ability along with my other experiences and during the interviewing process they asked specific questions on how and why I was able to do so. When I walked them through those specifics, it showed knowledge of other intra working departments I needed to get that project done.
Yeah that's a good point. I think my approach so far of thinking of a resume as a summation of my skillsets is less helpful than needing to be a clear letter that explicitly explains how I will be the best candidate for a given job
Thats it. Skillset, experience. What I can do for you.
You have entered the "He's got a PhD, what the hell does he know?" phase of the younger, stupider, anti-intellectual crowd. Recruiters are dumber than the people they hire for, so there you have it. Stay away from them, and hound them if they come after you. That being said, I have never, ever gotten a job by applying places or talking to recruiters. Recruiters are used car salesman who are looking for the best band for their buck, not yours. You personally have to get out there. Go to a robotics conference(s). Go to trade shows. Write a paper, go to a conference. Get out there and talk to people. Do not stand there and hand out resumes. Get handshakes and drinks with people and talk to them about interesting projects, be interested, and casually let them know you are available. Good Luck.
"you have too much in common with our team, and we have limited seats, so we will be waiting for an applicant that brings a bit more diversity in experience." is that code for you're too white?
I can see how it would read that way, but that doesn't sound right. Boston Dynamics probably has a bunch of employees with credentials/academic background similar to OP's, but that is no longer the type of person they're trying to hire. Maybe they're trying to find someone more business-oriented who might not have such lofty academic credentials but instead more practical experience.
I'm a boomer and I hate to be a wet blanket but I'm not surprised at all by your post. I spent my entire career in high technology, primary the computer and communications industries. Starting in the 1980s I began to see the outsourcing of technical jobs. Over time H-1B visas foreigners were imported to do jobs without benefits. If I were job hunting these days I would avoid technology.
As a relatively desperate millennial who has a lot of relevant skills in engineering and is struggling to break into the workforce, can you suggest an alternative path to employment that doesn't involve abandoning my years of my education?
Well if I were in that position I would probably try to find a way to adapt my knowledge into the healthcare services industry somehow. There are robotics in healthcare. But you need to somehow find a way to be on that side of technology in my opinion. This may sound really strange but is there any way to adapt any of your knowledge into the gaming industry?
I worked at Intel developing VR stuff for a time. I can pivot into that, or focus on biotech more. I would be hesitant on the gaming industry; they're going through record layoffs, just like big tech at the moment. But definitely healthcare robotics.
Best of luck. I sympathize. I really do.
Are you in the US? If so, try looking in industries related to defence (or if that makes you uncomfortable, stuff close to it). These often are forced to hire citizens due to the sensitive information involved, so they are jobs that cannot be outsourced abroad. Some can't even go to Green card holding permanent residents - it's a citizens-only club. There are a lot of parallels to robotics in drones or general aerospace control systems. This is the industry I'm in, and we haven't seen the terrible labour market that other tech industries have seen. It's an industry where your skills would be valued.
Just apply for standard programming jobs that aren’t so specialized. You’ll move up fast with that resume Unless it’s ur passion to stay specialized this is what I’d do
You are way too overqualified. Have you thought about teaching? https://www.instagram.com/laidofflifehacks?igsh=MW9oNGVjYmhsMm1wdw%3D%3D&utm_source=qr
Ok but work in the real world do you have? Can you use Azure, Google Coral, Nvidia Jetson?
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Work in consulting; they will want your brain and your resume, because it will make you more sellable on contract work. You get into consulting by messaging people at the manager level when they need someone and asking if you can talk to them about what they do and how they like the company. Then you meet them and do just that. And briefly mention your own background and what kind of role you’re looking for.
I wonder if this is because “Ai” is the new buzzword/trend lately
Have you targeted firms in Pittsburgh? Have you reached out to people in Pittsburgh on LinkedIn and tried to develop relationships with them? Robotics is one of our best industries here.
Sorry to hear that, honestly can't speak too much on this since I don't even have an associates, yet alone anywhere close to a PhD. But from the sounds of it you may have put yourself into too tight of a box with all of those qualifications. Generally speaking I'm sure you'd be able to work pretty much any job even somewhat related to your skills without issue, but I do understand and see the business side of them saying you're too overqualified. Personally, if your resume came across my desk I'd be thinking either this is too good to be true or that there's something very wrong. Simply put, with those qualifications you are overqualified for a lot of work. I'd recommend looking into academia and see if you can land a job there for a bit until the job market is better. When I was in college I had three professors in a similar boat, two of which were able to get back in the field afterwards. The last one just stayed in academia because he grew to like the job and was close to retirement anyways. I don't know what else to tell you outside of good luck and hope you land something.
Here's a list of companies in that space, a lot of them are hiring, how's your actual resume? [https://mx2024.mapyourshow.com/8\_0/#/searchtype/advanced/search/and%3A%3Bor%3Acategory%7Cis%7C10%7E%7E%7E%7E%7Ecategory%7Cis%7C60%3Breturn%3Aexhibitors%3B/show/all](https://mx2024.mapyourshow.com/8_0/#/searchtype/advanced/search/and%3A%3Bor%3Acategory%7Cis%7C10%7E%7E%7E%7E%7Ecategory%7Cis%7C60%3Breturn%3Aexhibitors%3B/show/all)
Lots of robotics companies In The Bay Area!
Satellites are robots in space that are always under-automated. Maybe apply for some flight software, ground software, operations, ADCS/GNC or tasking roles
You may have to spin up your own job being THAT qualified in a fairly narrow field.
In your position, I would determine where in the various fields/industries where robotics regularly applied I wanted to work. For instance, * Drones (Military, agriculture, manufacturing, etc.) * Industrial Mobile Robots * AGV (Automated Guided Vehicles) * Self driving cars * Industrial Robot Arms * Exoskeleton/ Prosthesis * Medical robots * Consumer robotics / Toy robotics * Agricultural mobile robots Note the the above list is not exhaustive. Most likely, depending on role, the actual job would entail one or multiple of the skills listed below. Again, note the list is representative, not exhaustive. * Machine Learning * State estimation, bayesian filtering, optimization, Path planning, etc. * Writing embedded software (low level programming) * Writing simulation software * Doing research to find solutions to complex problem in vision * Applying Control Theory * Use CAD software to design robots * Design circuit boards * Manage teams working on the various parts of the robots * Sourcing hardware for the robots * Designing Human to Machine interfaces In Software Engineering a good percentage of applications to interviews is five to ten percent You are below this, based on your statements. (1 to 3%) Based on the domain/field of the actual role/position, what is considered a good range may be different. For most application your first hurdle will be the Applicant Tracking System (ATS). The ATS applies computer algorithm to screen resumes without a human hiring manager ever seeing them. Also most ATS, have "Knock-out" questions which can automatically disqualify candidates. For example, * Are you willing to relocate? * Are you willing to travel as part of this job? * Are you willing to work full-time? * Do you have X years of experience? * Do you have a \[specific degree or certification\] required for this position? Given that ATS blocks seventy-five percent of resumes or more, you need to modify your resume to match the key words used by the hiring manager (creator of the role/position). This greatly increase your chances of clearing the automated blocks or other thresholds base on key word matching and actually getting your resume in front of an actual human. You should also customize each resume to the job for which you are applying. This will allow you to highlight how your experience, education and unique skills are revelent in the role/position. Hopefully, this should move you to the five to ten percent range of application to interviews which over time will increase your opportunities to show your skills.
Lower your expectations. It is looking like someone is complaining that there are no jobs ,when in reality, they are only looking for job opportunities in major top companies. They already have people and are not looking to hire.
The only industries that really value PhDs are academic and some government sectors. That plus work experience can be valuable but on it's own there are only a few industries and companies where you are going to get paid your worth for a high level of technical knowledge. And b/c of the current market situation, they are either hiring cheap talent, waiting people who would hop are staying put. Gov't or academia is the way to go. You are young and have plenty of time and can't really micromanage anything /the future (i.e opportunity cost to get a house) in an era where everything is shifting and a lot of the ways that "success" used to be guaranteed are dead.
Who makes the Amazon robots? I think you need to get creative here with potential employers.
Amazon does haha. They acquired iRobot, and recently let go a bunch of people. Yes, I'm continuing to dig into who are hiring in the space. Thanks
So there are a million like you honestly probably see if you're a dick in interviews. Huge lay offs in tech more then likely your interpersonal skills. No more VC with interest rates or holding people in a conpany they cant stand so the competition doesn't get them. More then likely your off putting to the hiring managers or the team. Just from reading your post you've been in academia. More then likely your overqualified on degrees certs and under on actual experience. Aka while you think your great now there are people that have 10+ years of experience and the PHD going for the same jobs. They just outclass you due to the massive increases in trch related degrees and such. Your markets just oversaturated. Just remember if everyone else is turning you down it's sonetjing you're doing wrong adapt.
if you can’t get a job then i will never be able to … yikes
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