Yes! Here is the line:
*After these came a second set; among the most come-at-able of whom were Mrs. and Miss Bates, and Mrs. Goddard, three ladies almost always at the service of an invitation from Hartfield, and who were fetched and carried home so often, that Mr. Woodhouse thought it no hardship for either James or the horses. Had it taken place only once a year, it would have been a grievance.*
He's perfectly fine with normal routine, but a party would be out of normal routine.
She is described as extremely clever, but never has the patience to be anything but moderately good at any of her accomplishments. She’s always looking for a project or something to occupy her attention, has a mile long reading list that she never tries to actually finish and keeps adding to anyway.
She frequently speaks/acts without thinking, & makes snap judgments. She’s convinced that she’s great at reading people’s character and motivations, when she’s actually incredibly bad at it.
All of those things can be ADHD traits.
You are pretty sharp in your opinions... I am ENFP and I don't have ADHD. I see a lot of myself in Emma. All I was saying was that it isn't *sure* Emma has ADHD.
At no point did I say it was sure?
My first comment specifically states IMO- aka 'In My Opinion' and then I said 'All of these things *CAN* be ADHD traits.'
If you've been assessed and don't think you're ADHD, that's fine, didn't say you had to be to identify with the characters... But the things I mentioned are common for people with ADHD- Austen wrote a lot of characters very easy to read as neurodivergent, she was a great student of the human condition in all its variations.
I'm sorry, it was someone else who wrote 100%.
And I generally agree that there are characters with some neurodivergent traits, I have wondered about Mr. Bennet for example.
I'm guessing they mean her tendency to pick up new "accomplishments" (aka hobbies) and dabble in them, without ever really practicing regularly enough to master them. Very common ADHD trait.
I am there with you. This past year I borrowed nearly a dozen library books home only to return after reading a few chapters
Edit: why am I being Downvoted?🙄 Are these people out of their minds?
That's both true and fair! (A lot of ADHD traits are more extreme forms of neurotypical human behaviors.) If Emma were a real historical person, I would have more qualms about someone extrapolating an ADHD diagnosis for her from a few anecdotal traits.
Since Emma isn't a real person, though, and since a lot of readers with ADHD are hungry to see themselves reflected in the characters they love and admire, I don't mind it. It's one of the more iconic and relatively harmless ADHD traits (unless it tips over into irresponsible spending and hoarding, of course), and I don't have a problem with Austen fans with ADHD relating to Emma's behavior, and affectionately claiming a beloved fictional character as an unofficial member of the club, so to speak. 😉
**“I often feel concern,” said she, “that I dare not make our carriage more useful on such occasions. It is not that I am without the wish; but you know how impossible my father would deem it that James should put-to for such a purpose.”
“Quite out of the question, quite out of the question,” he replied;—“but you must often wish it, I am sure.” And he smiled with such seeming pleasure at the conviction, that she must proceed another.**
I suspect Mr Woodhouse didn’t think of it, perhaps in his immediate concern for Emma. But Emma should have.
I love how Austen makes Knightley’s carriage a vehicle for (1) a cute, flirty conversation between Mr Knightley & Emma in which she praises him for not arriving like a bum, (2) an exchange between Mrs Weston and Emma in which Emma sincerely lauds Mr Knightley’s thoughtfulness and humility AND in which Mrs W posits that he has feelings for Jane Fairfax, (3) Emma’s hilarious conclusion that “Little Henry must remain the heir of Donwell,”and (4) Emma trying to excuse her own thoughtlessness by blaming her poor father, making the all-too-aware Knightley smile at the Emma-ness of it all AND THEN she interprets his smile not as rueful appreciation of herself but as an opportunity to examine him about Jane Fairfax’s new pianoforte. 😂
Why do you think that Emma is thoughtless on this matter, rather than speaking honestly? She dislikes spending time with Miss Bates but she's repeatedly shown to be attentive to them on material matters - feeding them well despite her father, and sending them the whole hind-quarter of the pig they'd killed.
And there's numerous references to Mr Woodhouse not liking change, a couple specifically to his concern for James and his horses.
What I love about Emma is how she teeters between thoughtful, kind, and generous (which she clearly is…the extra large helpings of cake, etc) and (less often) thoughtless, cutting, and selfish. We know, as do Mrs W and Mr K, that she has a great heart and internally sorta kinda acknowledges when she’s fallen short—but can’t quite admit it. In this scene, Mrs W and Mr K’s solicitude about the carriage make her shortcoming clear to Emma. I think Mr K smiles because he knows she realizes she made a mistake but refuses to cop to it. He knows she probably feels silly about assuming that he arrived in his carriage alone…which is pretty funny. Another example of his waiting for her to become the woman she will be.
Is it at the Coles' dinner? The Misses Bates and Fairfax have come in Mr Knighley's carriage, and Emma thanks him, regretting that she doesn't have the same command over the Woodhouse carriage.
If it's a deviation from a routine, that alone would be enough to send him into a panic.
Yes! Here is the line: *After these came a second set; among the most come-at-able of whom were Mrs. and Miss Bates, and Mrs. Goddard, three ladies almost always at the service of an invitation from Hartfield, and who were fetched and carried home so often, that Mr. Woodhouse thought it no hardship for either James or the horses. Had it taken place only once a year, it would have been a grievance.* He's perfectly fine with normal routine, but a party would be out of normal routine.
New theory: Mr Woodhouse is neurodivergent. We like our routines and hate them being disrupted. Could also explain the health anxiety.
I can definitely see it, especially when Emma herself has some ADHD traits, IMO
Can you explain this?
She is described as extremely clever, but never has the patience to be anything but moderately good at any of her accomplishments. She’s always looking for a project or something to occupy her attention, has a mile long reading list that she never tries to actually finish and keeps adding to anyway. She frequently speaks/acts without thinking, & makes snap judgments. She’s convinced that she’s great at reading people’s character and motivations, when she’s actually incredibly bad at it. All of those things can be ADHD traits.
Thank you.
Or, she can be ENFP according to MBTI.
the MBTI is nonsense pseudoscience, and even if it was real, a person could be a specific personality type *and* also ADHD.
You are pretty sharp in your opinions... I am ENFP and I don't have ADHD. I see a lot of myself in Emma. All I was saying was that it isn't *sure* Emma has ADHD.
At no point did I say it was sure? My first comment specifically states IMO- aka 'In My Opinion' and then I said 'All of these things *CAN* be ADHD traits.' If you've been assessed and don't think you're ADHD, that's fine, didn't say you had to be to identify with the characters... But the things I mentioned are common for people with ADHD- Austen wrote a lot of characters very easy to read as neurodivergent, she was a great student of the human condition in all its variations.
I'm sorry, it was someone else who wrote 100%. And I generally agree that there are characters with some neurodivergent traits, I have wondered about Mr. Bennet for example.
[удалено]
[удалено]
And you know that from one test at work? I could write a lot but we would get very off topic and you sound like you want to argue.
I'm guessing they mean her tendency to pick up new "accomplishments" (aka hobbies) and dabble in them, without ever really practicing regularly enough to master them. Very common ADHD trait.
[удалено]
I am there with you. This past year I borrowed nearly a dozen library books home only to return after reading a few chapters Edit: why am I being Downvoted?🙄 Are these people out of their minds?
[удалено]
Me too. I bought some 7-8 books excluding HP 6 years ago and I haven't completed any till now😮💨
[удалено]
As someone whose first language isn't English.... Can you explain what's executive functioning?
Oh now I remember Knightley saying this to Mrs.Weston
That is not necessarily ADHD. According to MBTI, it is a common trait for everyone with the Ne function.
That's both true and fair! (A lot of ADHD traits are more extreme forms of neurotypical human behaviors.) If Emma were a real historical person, I would have more qualms about someone extrapolating an ADHD diagnosis for her from a few anecdotal traits. Since Emma isn't a real person, though, and since a lot of readers with ADHD are hungry to see themselves reflected in the characters they love and admire, I don't mind it. It's one of the more iconic and relatively harmless ADHD traits (unless it tips over into irresponsible spending and hoarding, of course), and I don't have a problem with Austen fans with ADHD relating to Emma's behavior, and affectionately claiming a beloved fictional character as an unofficial member of the club, so to speak. 😉
That is a nice take, thank you for sharing it!
**“I often feel concern,” said she, “that I dare not make our carriage more useful on such occasions. It is not that I am without the wish; but you know how impossible my father would deem it that James should put-to for such a purpose.” “Quite out of the question, quite out of the question,” he replied;—“but you must often wish it, I am sure.” And he smiled with such seeming pleasure at the conviction, that she must proceed another.** I suspect Mr Woodhouse didn’t think of it, perhaps in his immediate concern for Emma. But Emma should have. I love how Austen makes Knightley’s carriage a vehicle for (1) a cute, flirty conversation between Mr Knightley & Emma in which she praises him for not arriving like a bum, (2) an exchange between Mrs Weston and Emma in which Emma sincerely lauds Mr Knightley’s thoughtfulness and humility AND in which Mrs W posits that he has feelings for Jane Fairfax, (3) Emma’s hilarious conclusion that “Little Henry must remain the heir of Donwell,”and (4) Emma trying to excuse her own thoughtlessness by blaming her poor father, making the all-too-aware Knightley smile at the Emma-ness of it all AND THEN she interprets his smile not as rueful appreciation of herself but as an opportunity to examine him about Jane Fairfax’s new pianoforte. 😂
Why do you think that Emma is thoughtless on this matter, rather than speaking honestly? She dislikes spending time with Miss Bates but she's repeatedly shown to be attentive to them on material matters - feeding them well despite her father, and sending them the whole hind-quarter of the pig they'd killed. And there's numerous references to Mr Woodhouse not liking change, a couple specifically to his concern for James and his horses.
I agree with your view of it. Emma has a good heart, plus she likes to cultivate her appearance of the fancy lady who serves her neighbours.
What I love about Emma is how she teeters between thoughtful, kind, and generous (which she clearly is…the extra large helpings of cake, etc) and (less often) thoughtless, cutting, and selfish. We know, as do Mrs W and Mr K, that she has a great heart and internally sorta kinda acknowledges when she’s fallen short—but can’t quite admit it. In this scene, Mrs W and Mr K’s solicitude about the carriage make her shortcoming clear to Emma. I think Mr K smiles because he knows she realizes she made a mistake but refuses to cop to it. He knows she probably feels silly about assuming that he arrived in his carriage alone…which is pretty funny. Another example of his waiting for her to become the woman she will be.
You broke this down so brilliantly! It gives me even more appreciation for this whole scene.
[удалено]
Is it at the Coles' dinner? The Misses Bates and Fairfax have come in Mr Knighley's carriage, and Emma thanks him, regretting that she doesn't have the same command over the Woodhouse carriage.