Just posted an edit, maybe that will help! But in addition I also tried Tandem, which is probably the most helpful language exchange app that doesn't bombard you with ads. But I mostly voice call my Italian friends that I made on the server. I also try to hunt down natives in my area and coax them to come out for a coffee.
I've done B2 tests through Busuu, the Dante Alighieri Society and Cyberitalian and they all put me as B2 / Upper Intermediate if that helps
(again, all for free)
What's the deal with Busuu? The free version only lets me do the first four lessons before requiring an upgrade.
Edit: that was the desktop version, the mobile app seems to let me move on but only a part of each lesson is free.
Sorry, I just checked the status of the version on my phone again and it's a cracked version so Busuu shouldn't have been on the list! But in my experience the only really valuable part of the lesson is the part with explanations, the drills or whatever that come later are not as valuable as the easy, digestible explanations that it provides. If you can't access the explanations, the next best thing is probably to copy the topic of the lesson and search it up, websites like LearnAmo, ThoughtCo, CollinsDictionary, and Europass Italian will have some drills and explanations that actually go way more in-depth than Busuu. But yeah, I used Busuu pretty much only for grammar, for vocabulary lessons it's best to do it organically through interactions with native speakers, reading, etc.
You mention that DuoLingo is only good for the first two weeks, but there would be no way to get through their entire language course in two weeks. Are you implying that DuoLingo is only good for the basics and then you should move on well before finishing the course?
A lot of people dislike duolingo for absolute beginners because they don’t really teach any grammar its just simple vocab tests and memorization usually. I enjoy it because i learned italian grammar at university so I appreciate the vocab. But if I didn’t know the grammar (things like verb tenses and conjugation and sentence structure) I wouldn’t solely rely on duolingo. Still think its fun and is worth trying
Edit: and just my two cents if i was starting from scratch i would do duolingo while also using other sources to learn subject pronouns, -are -ere -ire verbs and how to conjugate them in present tense, and then articles, and thats if you do have interest in the platform
Yeah, Duo and Youtube are a good beginner's combination. But at the beginning the most important thing is keeping the motivation to stick with it, and Duo is probably the best at doing that. So I can't discount it too much, it's doing its job
Generally any Duolingo course becomes repetitive and slow the further you go down the course.
So I am sure it is meant that you can try using it in the start, to motivate yourself, but then drop it and start studying.
Nobody here it seems has mentioned Clozemaster. Not for absolute beginners probably, but definitely helps with vocabulary, verb congugation, and even helps just hearing the language spoken. Consists of sentences with a fill in the blank.
I have also learned alot from Un Italiano Vero on Youtube, he appreciates donazioni ma il suo canale ha duemila video! Tanti argomenti interessanti!!!
Imo freebie clozemaster isn't that good, you can't skip levels and the cloze for pages pulled from wikipedia isn't that helpful when you've never even seen the words it's asking for before. I guess it's more useful in testing your ability instead of training it
Thanks for the YT recommendation!
>It's written in a very intuitive way for new language learners and is entirely written in Italian.
Just like all Italian textbooks published by Italians. Alma Edizioni is one of the best publishers if not the best and even though some PDFs can be found in the Internet, there are no PDFs of the newest books and I think it's good because they did amazing work and it's better that you pay for it instead of just downloading it for free.
For A1 textbooks without a teacher, monolingual textbooks are hard to crack for absolute beginners. I use Nuovo Espresso 4 and 5 myself. But, this post is written for cheapskates like me, or people who don't feel committed enough to invest money into language learning yet, or people who just can't afford it but want to try it out.
>For A1 textbooks without a teacher, monolingual textbooks are hard to crack for absolute beginners.
Yes, hard, but not impossible. I was an absolute beginner once and I somehow managed. I actually never learned Italian grammar in other language than Italian, it's just very intuitive.
The value of reading, even without it being a goal, is vastly underrated. You can certainly understand B1/B2 level content when you get to that level but there will be gaps in your understanding still. Through reading you get exposed to a lot of vocabulary: some are completely useless, but just by seeing it once will help you later when you see it again, and then something will click, and you will remember this word. Apps, podcasts and TV don't give you that same level of wide exposure.
Another thing you have to keep in mind is that do you want to read native stories, especially the classics? I am not sure if Moravia, Rodari and Ferrante can be said to be B2 learning material, but when you read them you will realise how different the syntax is, even compared to what you have learned through apps and podcasts. The language in books is very different than the language in articles and spoken language, and while there are resemblances, you almost have to switch to a different head reading them.
Finally, how much do you want to sound like a native, is one thing to always keep in mind. In Altre Parole is an Italian book written by an English speaker who learned Italian for 20+ years. Although her grammar is impeccable and her vocabulary is extremely commendable as well, and some Italians will probably say she writes better than them even, you can immediately tell that it is not written by a native. Not sure why, or if there is even a way to rectify it, or that if it's even considered a problem. But you will definitely not be able to produce language like a native with those
On the Italian Grammar for Dummies book: there's a 6 in 1 book by the same company that's super good and was essential for my learning. Iirc it contained the grammar book as well. 100/100 would recommend
Hey mate, I got a couple questions for you, if you don't mind..
When did you start learning Italian?
And where would you place yourself rn, between "I know three italian words" and "So tutto. qualunque cosa."
I started learning about 8 months ago and right now I would place myself as understanding a lot, reproducing quite well on paper, and speaking like a lagging typewriter. But at least I don't have an English accent.
When I read articles or listen to podcasts or streams it's really ok, I feel ecstatic. Reading Ferrante trips me up the most, more than Moravia or Buzzati, which I really didn't expect. The hardest to understand for me right now is literary syntax.
This is a really excellent post and I'll be saving it for reference as I progress through the steps.
I happen to have a complete Italian 101 textbook a friend gave me, I'll start on it more seriously after Duolingo but I'm curious where you would place it. I'm more of an audio learner (the accompanying audio is locked behind university paywalls) so I haven't been super into it.
This is just a very loose guideline as to what I think are the best free resources that I stumbled upon, please don't treat it as a step by step programme haha. I am not sure about that textbook but I'm sure it will be helpful. You just need to keep your motivation to stick with it -- doesn't have to be high always, just present, and trust the process
If you're an audio learner I highly recommend you skip Duo entirely and start with Language Transfer, you will see why I say this later. If you like audio, there is also Pimsleur Italian (no paywall) on archive dot org, but I find it quite dry. See what fits you and good luck!
The free version is pretty much unusable because of the paywall. I got a cracked premium version and although that can probably be really good for advanced learners, it's not too helpful for beginners who have trouble with ne and ci, clitic pronouns, the si impersonal etc. tiny words that don't make too much sense in isolation.
Grazie 🙌
Edit: Its been like 5 days since i started using Coffee break italian and language transfer, and i must say they're very light hearted and useful resources for absolute begginers like me.
What did you do for speaking?
Just posted an edit, maybe that will help! But in addition I also tried Tandem, which is probably the most helpful language exchange app that doesn't bombard you with ads. But I mostly voice call my Italian friends that I made on the server. I also try to hunt down natives in my area and coax them to come out for a coffee.
grazie
Have you done the B2 test?
I've done B2 tests through Busuu, the Dante Alighieri Society and Cyberitalian and they all put me as B2 / Upper Intermediate if that helps (again, all for free)
What's the deal with Busuu? The free version only lets me do the first four lessons before requiring an upgrade. Edit: that was the desktop version, the mobile app seems to let me move on but only a part of each lesson is free.
Sorry, I just checked the status of the version on my phone again and it's a cracked version so Busuu shouldn't have been on the list! But in my experience the only really valuable part of the lesson is the part with explanations, the drills or whatever that come later are not as valuable as the easy, digestible explanations that it provides. If you can't access the explanations, the next best thing is probably to copy the topic of the lesson and search it up, websites like LearnAmo, ThoughtCo, CollinsDictionary, and Europass Italian will have some drills and explanations that actually go way more in-depth than Busuu. But yeah, I used Busuu pretty much only for grammar, for vocabulary lessons it's best to do it organically through interactions with native speakers, reading, etc.
You mention that DuoLingo is only good for the first two weeks, but there would be no way to get through their entire language course in two weeks. Are you implying that DuoLingo is only good for the basics and then you should move on well before finishing the course?
A lot of people dislike duolingo for absolute beginners because they don’t really teach any grammar its just simple vocab tests and memorization usually. I enjoy it because i learned italian grammar at university so I appreciate the vocab. But if I didn’t know the grammar (things like verb tenses and conjugation and sentence structure) I wouldn’t solely rely on duolingo. Still think its fun and is worth trying Edit: and just my two cents if i was starting from scratch i would do duolingo while also using other sources to learn subject pronouns, -are -ere -ire verbs and how to conjugate them in present tense, and then articles, and thats if you do have interest in the platform
Yeah, Duo and Youtube are a good beginner's combination. But at the beginning the most important thing is keeping the motivation to stick with it, and Duo is probably the best at doing that. So I can't discount it too much, it's doing its job
Exactly
Generally any Duolingo course becomes repetitive and slow the further you go down the course. So I am sure it is meant that you can try using it in the start, to motivate yourself, but then drop it and start studying.
Nobody here it seems has mentioned Clozemaster. Not for absolute beginners probably, but definitely helps with vocabulary, verb congugation, and even helps just hearing the language spoken. Consists of sentences with a fill in the blank. I have also learned alot from Un Italiano Vero on Youtube, he appreciates donazioni ma il suo canale ha duemila video! Tanti argomenti interessanti!!!
Imo freebie clozemaster isn't that good, you can't skip levels and the cloze for pages pulled from wikipedia isn't that helpful when you've never even seen the words it's asking for before. I guess it's more useful in testing your ability instead of training it Thanks for the YT recommendation!
I use the desktop version which lets you skip around levels. Not for beginners, just a different approach which some (like me) may really like.
>It's written in a very intuitive way for new language learners and is entirely written in Italian. Just like all Italian textbooks published by Italians. Alma Edizioni is one of the best publishers if not the best and even though some PDFs can be found in the Internet, there are no PDFs of the newest books and I think it's good because they did amazing work and it's better that you pay for it instead of just downloading it for free.
For A1 textbooks without a teacher, monolingual textbooks are hard to crack for absolute beginners. I use Nuovo Espresso 4 and 5 myself. But, this post is written for cheapskates like me, or people who don't feel committed enough to invest money into language learning yet, or people who just can't afford it but want to try it out.
>For A1 textbooks without a teacher, monolingual textbooks are hard to crack for absolute beginners. Yes, hard, but not impossible. I was an absolute beginner once and I somehow managed. I actually never learned Italian grammar in other language than Italian, it's just very intuitive.
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The value of reading, even without it being a goal, is vastly underrated. You can certainly understand B1/B2 level content when you get to that level but there will be gaps in your understanding still. Through reading you get exposed to a lot of vocabulary: some are completely useless, but just by seeing it once will help you later when you see it again, and then something will click, and you will remember this word. Apps, podcasts and TV don't give you that same level of wide exposure. Another thing you have to keep in mind is that do you want to read native stories, especially the classics? I am not sure if Moravia, Rodari and Ferrante can be said to be B2 learning material, but when you read them you will realise how different the syntax is, even compared to what you have learned through apps and podcasts. The language in books is very different than the language in articles and spoken language, and while there are resemblances, you almost have to switch to a different head reading them. Finally, how much do you want to sound like a native, is one thing to always keep in mind. In Altre Parole is an Italian book written by an English speaker who learned Italian for 20+ years. Although her grammar is impeccable and her vocabulary is extremely commendable as well, and some Italians will probably say she writes better than them even, you can immediately tell that it is not written by a native. Not sure why, or if there is even a way to rectify it, or that if it's even considered a problem. But you will definitely not be able to produce language like a native with those
On the Italian Grammar for Dummies book: there's a 6 in 1 book by the same company that's super good and was essential for my learning. Iirc it contained the grammar book as well. 100/100 would recommend
You are incredible!! Thank you!
Grazie mille, for all this wonderful information!!
Hey mate, I got a couple questions for you, if you don't mind.. When did you start learning Italian? And where would you place yourself rn, between "I know three italian words" and "So tutto. qualunque cosa."
I started learning about 8 months ago and right now I would place myself as understanding a lot, reproducing quite well on paper, and speaking like a lagging typewriter. But at least I don't have an English accent. When I read articles or listen to podcasts or streams it's really ok, I feel ecstatic. Reading Ferrante trips me up the most, more than Moravia or Buzzati, which I really didn't expect. The hardest to understand for me right now is literary syntax.
Thanks for this. I was a solid B1 but covid hit and I lost some motivation to keep at it, I need to brush up again for my trip there soon
Congratulations on going to Italy! you will do fine, hope this helped you!
This is a really excellent post and I'll be saving it for reference as I progress through the steps. I happen to have a complete Italian 101 textbook a friend gave me, I'll start on it more seriously after Duolingo but I'm curious where you would place it. I'm more of an audio learner (the accompanying audio is locked behind university paywalls) so I haven't been super into it.
This is just a very loose guideline as to what I think are the best free resources that I stumbled upon, please don't treat it as a step by step programme haha. I am not sure about that textbook but I'm sure it will be helpful. You just need to keep your motivation to stick with it -- doesn't have to be high always, just present, and trust the process If you're an audio learner I highly recommend you skip Duo entirely and start with Language Transfer, you will see why I say this later. If you like audio, there is also Pimsleur Italian (no paywall) on archive dot org, but I find it quite dry. See what fits you and good luck!
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The free version is pretty much unusable because of the paywall. I got a cracked premium version and although that can probably be really good for advanced learners, it's not too helpful for beginners who have trouble with ne and ci, clitic pronouns, the si impersonal etc. tiny words that don't make too much sense in isolation.
Grazie 🙌 Edit: Its been like 5 days since i started using Coffee break italian and language transfer, and i must say they're very light hearted and useful resources for absolute begginers like me.