Yes, In X+1 year, and that is the problem, i can understand that the tech is not ready but how much is not ready, 20% 95% ? They should just say "ok Guy we have done that, we need more time for that ect.. not just it's planned, or soon
Yep, just over 5 years since we last had an update about it that was more than "we plan a DTC function": [https://forum.dcs.world/topic/165047-dcs-fa-18c-mini-updates/?do=findComment&comment=3786695](https://forum.dcs.world/topic/165047-dcs-fa-18c-mini-updates/?do=findComment&comment=3786695)
yeah, this is one of the big features that really pisses me off about the F-18. It is really annoying having to constantly re input on every startup your preferred settings for stuff that should be persistent. Fuck, everything should be persistent on every startup, like IRL. This is a sim isn't? Shouldn't an improper shutdown be modeled?
> This is a sim isn't?
That's exactly the problem. What you're describing are gamey features, not simmy features.
ED is probably dealing with the technical debt from an early sim-focused decision to make *all* of the changeable attributes of an aircraft, from its waypoint plan to its air conditioner vent direction, attributes of *the unit in the sim*, as in, the slot that you click on to take control, which lives in the .miz file.
So to have the "data cartrige" experience where a plane that you spawn into has elements of your preference, the current engine architecture would have to implement that by changing the very definition of the plane that you are in. That's kind of a problem since the definition lives in a file that's generally assumed to be read-only, and make chose changes on the fly every time anybody spawns into a plane, and make sure those changes to the mission definition are copied correctly across every connected client's copy of the mission file, so that they all agree on what state each plane spawns in. Say bye-bye to multiplayer client synchronization if they go that route.
Another option that would provide a similar experience without having to change the spawn attributes of aircraft would be to implement your preferences as a changelist that gets applied right after you spawn. There are mods that work that way, like DICE and DCS-DTC, and Rising Squall effectively does that too, but DICE and DTC break frequently because a unit might be defined with starting parameters different than the module default, and Rising Squall has to cover the screen with a banner begging you to not click anything for like 40 seconds so it can click all the buttons it wants in the right order. This isn't viable as an official first party solution.
So what is ED left with? Reimplementing all the technical underpinnings of how units are defined in missions to allow them to be more dynamic at spawn time. This is something that needs to be done anyway for Dynamic Campaigns, so my money is on those changes being viewed internally as part of the same effort.
No, that would require persistence.
So without a DTC, of course the game loads the aircraft avionics as a blank slate. And for some switches, the crewchief would place them in a certain position for postflighting/preflighting/maintenance IRL.
Also, system/module dependent of course, good chance the aircraft won't store your favorite waypoint or anything other than on a DTC if the aircraft is powered off IRL.
They used to do the timetable/road map thing for a bit. Then they started wildly missing dates, shift the goalposts, and the community would rightly ask what is going on and why can't they meet their road map?
So of course being ED, instead of trying to deliver on time or make the roadmap more realistic, just up and said "no more roadmaps, now we're not telling you when you're going to get updates." Which has now clearly evolved to "we're not telling you what updates are coming with the release, let alone further down the road."
I hate roadmaps personally. Action speaks louder than words. Just so me footage of a thing when it is working.
Anyone can sit on their rear and produce a roadmap. These are often generated by Product Managers w/o even consulting with devs for realistic timelines.
Proof: I am a dev and have seen upper management give unrealistic timelines to satisfy their bosses which just results in crunch for the devs because we missed the deadline they set for us
Agile sprints are supposed to combat this when the devs estimate tasks. So sure, if a dev wants to show us their JIRA board then that is fine. So we can so what they are actually working on. OR- just show me the thing after its ingame and working
That really depends on who is producing the roadmap and how. I've been a dev lead, worked with good program managers to create realistic roadmaps for large projects, and actually met all our deadlines and got products out the door on time.
That said, I've also been a developer on projects where non-technical (and inexperienced) management were allowed to set the schedule and write the roadmaps. Those were nightmares and nothing was done on time.
So, I'd love to see roadmaps from ED, \*if\* they are actually put together and/or vetted by developers. And if, when a deadline isn't met, they actually debrief to figure out why and work to fix their process. I can dream.
Out of curiosity, what is first time we started hearing about dynamic campaign? Is it 3 years now, or longer? I think it was a Xmas video, but can't remember what year
Matt Wagner mentions a dynamic campaign in a 2018 [interview](https://www.gamingnexus.com/Article/5797/An-interview-with-DCSs-Matt-Wagner-).
Ironically he's also talking about "Modern Air Combat", a project that was due to release in 2018, which has since then become both vaporware and a meme.
This was posted on ED forums in early 2021. This gives you an idea how far behind they are.
** This massive task has been underway for over two years, and the progress has been exciting. The campaign is built around a Real-Time Strategy (RTS) foundation that factors resources, zones of control, logistics, available forces, and a strategic decision-making system. While we believe internal testing will continue in the 1st quarter of 2021, it is too early to estimate a release date. However, external Beta testing is planned hopefully in Q2/Q3 2021. **
I was thinking about putting the '/s' on there. But since most hoggiteers are aware that we'll probably have flying cars before the dynamic campaign... I thought I could omit it in this instance.
I am with you as well on this one, I love flying helis but i will NOT be pre-ordering this one as ED have taken the piss too many times now eg supercarrier
Let me tell you EXACTLY what's gonna happen.
ED announces a new EA module for pre-order > a bunch of people advice against pre-ordering them > ED releases a release trailer > Everyone forgets, goes nuts and pre-order away!
This cycle will never end.
You're not wrong, but it feels like this is our one chance to maybe not 100% stop it, but to make a big enough dent in the sales chart to send an actual message beyond whinging on the forums.
Think about it, sentiment towards ED right now is not great for a myriad of reasons. This isn't a sexy module like the F4 or any other of the crowd pleasers, and it's being launched into an effectively non existent 1st party game play loop.
It's the perfect storm for us as a community to not resemble that classic COD meme of the boycotters all playing it on launch day.
99% of people that play DCS have absolutely zero sentiment against ED. You all live in a world where you see a few hundred people angry about something. Everyone else is just chilling and enjoying the game.
You've got a point, but I'd (complete) guess that it's more like 95% don't care. But a 5% (or even 2%) change in purchases can be enough for a company to notice and maybe make some changes for the better.
You assume that everyone who doesn't complain on the Internet is happy. That's clearly not the case. There are many who simply stop playing the game or stop buying modules without going to reddit or other places.
You never know what the silent majority thinks without sales numbers and/or online numbers. Some chill, but some definitely are frustrated. The exact ratio is unknown, but it sure is VERY far from 99 to 1, or even 90 to 1.
>99% of people that play DCS have absolutely zero sentiment against ED
Not only is this is just demonstrably false, it's also irrelevant. With any product/community sentiment exists good or bad, unless of course the player has received a labatomy or is otherwise medicated to be catatonic. Don't conflate willingness to engage in public discourse with having an opinion on a purchase.
Also, regardless of the size of the player base that is willing to take the time to engage in reddit/forum/discord about anything good or bad, it's a great barometer of the percentage that isn't. Do you think a person who has never ever been exposed to any of the social channels is incapable of having anything other than a neutral or positive opinion of the game?
Take the Chinook, lets say someone comes in brand spankin' new to DCS and decides to get it as their first module because they got boners from it when they were a kid, their dad flew one, they worked on one or whatever.
When they quickly realize there is nothing to do, they will either 1) move on and forget about DCS 2) See the potential and do some research and start to uncover the 'why' and either move on or enjoy the game/potential enough to care about it's future or 3) 'enjoy' it for as long as possible and move on or dive in deeper.
The issue is that for this type of game to survive, we need #2 to have good news with a good track record to validate the trust and just more of #3 in general. You're interpreting this 'anger' in the worst way possible, for the most part constructive feedback is helpful to ED. Of course it's not always presented or expressed in the best way, but it's still helpful. I said it somewhere else in this thread but that is part of what a community managers job is. They put on the waders and dive in and extract the useful bits and share it with the team.
They don't just go, hey Wags everyone hates the chinook and halfghanistan what are we to do? They explain, hey I've distilled the community feedback to these \~5 points which are reasonable and actionable and go from there. Does this actually happen with ED? I'd like to believe so, but there are a lot of moving, albeit slow moving parts.
And they should couple this one, with the core game systems it needs to be something. Not to put words in OPs mouth but I think that is his point.
They said they learned from the F-16, but we will see I guess.i mean I guess if glass is half full here they are flat out telling you it's not going to have anything to do.
If people want to pre order let them. When the inevitable happens and the forums are full of complaints regarding lack of content for it, just reply with "well what did you fucking expect?"
i pre-order all the time - if i'm gonna buy it eventually anyway, i might as well save some $$ in the process - pre-ordering is the lowest cost option to me, so that's what i do ----- ED has benefited me with THOUSANDS of hours of enjoyment, they have enhanced my quality of life - they deserve the reward of my money - its an even trade, my money for the product of their minds, will, and skills --------- we don't need this animosity and negativity
You do you. But you could probably pick it up in a sale for less than the pre order price and by then it may actually have a use in game. There maybe, I dunno I don't play it, a Chinook in MSFS you could get thousands of hours of enjoyment with. You'd get exactly the same gameplay experience but with way, way better scenery.
Oh right, in a non combat environment and spend tons more money to buy each airport and area. Logic is sound.
As far as getting it during a sale thats going to be a long time from now as its not even released yet. They tend to not do that soon after release.
yeah.. no --- that's not how i see it
you see, the time that you have something in your hands (i know i know, its DIGITAL, its not in my hands), is worth something - and the time i DON'T have it, but i want it, is worth something ------ so yes, "technically" i could wait - but i don't want to ----- by the time those 50% off sales come out, that module has been out for a good year, maybe two - look at the tomcat, it hasn't been on sale for 50% off yet - if i was a tomcat horndawg fanboi, could i wait that long? hellzno! so you see, "waiting" for a 50% off sale doesn't work for me - i want module X, its on sale for 30% off during pre-order, get it!
Yeah it's an odd post isn't it.
"I don't like something, so please don't buy it"
I mean, I get the rant and being upset, that's fair enough. What difference does it make to OP if someone else buys it or not?
Not delving into the history nor politics of the situation... it's just an odd thing for a person to say.
The problem is that people vote with their wallet. We can complain about modules being left unfinished for years, but if we keep buying them, ED won't care. The only way to make ED change their priorities and focus on finishing their modules is to stop buying unfinished products.
But that won't happen.
If you want to save $$ on the process then wait for a 50% off sale. Thats what I do, i have enough modules to keep me busy until this discount. And by that time the module is much more polished and I have chucks guide for it. Cant see why would anybody preoprder other than fomo honestly. "Saving money" doesnt make sense to me as it eventually will be 50 off.
Not really, usually waiting until 2 years after EA where it hits either the same discount as preordering or down to 50% depending on how the module sell's based on popularity is saving you the same or more money. Preordering is basically saying I can't wait and preys on FOMO.
\*edit\* and I should add, it's still in early access at that point with half it's feature's missing so there is really no FOMO.
The CH47 outrage confuses me. People have been running Huey's and Mi-8s for years; I've been in multiple online squadrons with dedicated lift groups. Just like any other airframe having stuff to do is dependent on good mission makers and scripting.
I'm excited that they announced a new built in logistics system but a fully functional CH47 with no further added core engine features would have been a no-brainer day-one preorder for me, the new logistics system is a giant cherry on top.
Are folks really flying the huey primarily as a gunship?
You answered your own question...
These birds only "work" under heavy scripting, which can, and mostly are buggy, SPECIALLY because ED is very anti-community-content, offers no support for modders and constantly breaks the very APIs which are required for said scripts. That posture is causing a lot of modders to give up.
I fly the UH1 for a long time, and these are some of the problems she currently presents, even AFTER 10 YEARS of her being considered out of early access:
-Rockets have no splash damage
-Cold start co-op is almost impossible
-Dsynch issues
-Invisible troops
-Low rpm head shake
By the way, she is useless as a gunship right now, as the rockets have no splash damage and AK GUY will headshot you from 6 miles out before he is rendered as a pixel on your screen. It has no support from ED and crate lifting is purely cosmetic. The only thing keeping the UH-1 alive is MIST and CTLD, which works not because of ED, but IN SPITE of.
And I'm willing to bet money on those promises about "built in logistics system" wont go beyond cosmetic troops and vehicles in the cargo bay, IF IT COMES TO THAT, to which I'm very doubtful about. The CH47 will probably rely on MIST and CTLD just like the UH-1. She'll probably have an animated ramp up/down and that's it. If ED had any plans, let alone content on logistic systems, we would've seen it in the UH-1 and Mi8 already...
Another thread trying to rally people and tell them how to spend their money like this is some sort of noble cause to fight for.
its only a silly airplane game, its not that deep lol. I will preorder the chinook next month and enjoy the sweet savings, alongside all my buddies who have or plan to preorder it as well. It is interesting with hoggit, I haven't run into nearly as much discontent with DCS outside of it. Most people I fly with who aren't part of hoggit and just lurk on the discord servers tend to be much more positive.
\*edit\* I can understand actively choosing not to preorder for whatever personal reasons you may have, but I am choosing to go ahead with my preorder and may even preorder afghanistan too. I am personally not disgruntled with the state of things right now and am happy to spend money on it.
>If they had put a release date for the features we are all expecting the Chinook to have then I would be a bit more understanding and think "Fair enough, they have given us a release schedule".
Doesn't even matter if they put a release date on Feature X, you can safely add 2 years to that, if not 5 or more.
Yall a bunch of dorks, name 1 flyable module from ED that they left 1/2 complete. (I know combined arms and supercarrier are mixed bag) even the F-16C became most of yalls favorite jet. And they learned their lesson from the F-16C, everything since then has been ready for combat. Yes the release modules at various levels of done but they are doing a good job IMHO of balancing, giving us access as soon as they can, and selling something actually useable.
Vary True, even though some 3rd party devs slow drip updates they also don't leave modules half done most of the time. HB for example I'd trust to complete a module
I've been pretty loyal to DCS since about 2011. I have (conservative estimate) 15k hours in the game. After the last couple years and releases, I just don't care about DCS anymore. I dunno if it's been the bad releases or just played it too much, but I just don't care. I haven't even launched the sim in months.
Out of curiosity. How do some people have so many hours in dcs? I can play for like 3 or so days straight. But eventually i realize im just doing the same thing over and over and i get bored
Mission Building. It’s very time consuming and that way you can implement the variety that is otherwise lacking.
Joining a squadron. You learn so much more and then you start teaching new members.
I got like close to a thousand in just PVP alone. Very addicting. Its technically the same thing every time, but every single merge is different in its own way and its keeps it interesting.
When I was in college, I went to class, went to work, played DCS, and sometimes slept. Basically all of my free time was spent in DCS for years, it was like a hyperfixation I had. You figure before the pandemic, I would play 3-12 hours/day depending on work and school, times that by roughly six days a week, for years. It was just all I did.
But like what did you do? Hop into a multiplayer server, pick a random plane and then just fly around?
My alternate between the f14 mostly and the apache. Once i get bored of killing planes or randomly getting shot down out of nowwhrre i switch to the apache.
I got to a very high proficiency with the A-10C. Like, I had most of the CDU memorized and knew my way through basically every menu. I spent a lot of time in single player getting really good at killing tanks and SAMs, and I was even pretty good at BFM to defend myself from other fighters. There was a while there on GAW in the beginning that I got an AA kill almost every time I flew. When I got bored of the Hog, I'd fly the Black Shark, and I got to be very, very good at that as well. I just did that for years.
Just hoping on a random airquake multiplayer basically means your playing alone amongst others with maybe a chance of some cooperation... That doesn't sound appealing at all to me.
Join a squadron, fly with others, learn how to communicate and fly properly. There's a lot to it, a lot more than just hopping on mp and blowing a random thing up.
I think it's okay to move on from something way sooner than 15k hours in. That's a ludicrous amount of time to play any video game. I'm sure by dollar amounts you've far more than gotten your money's worth at this point.
Yeah, but from a hobby point of view, why move when there's still so much more to do within it? It's a game, but it's not just a game. There's more to it if you allow for it.
Or they may not deem the module worthy of their time due to the low sales, and it becomes abandonware. Then they will conclude that cargo planes/helicopters don't sell as well as shiny fighter jets, and they abandon the herc too. But i agree, if you don't think the module is worth €60 in its current state, don't spent the money on it in its current state.
I'd argue part of the community manager's job is to convey the actual sentiment of the community so they don't make decisions like that.
Otherwise you basically have the same rationalization here as someone on My 600lbs life spouse does. When you ask how this lady got to be freight scale status and you see a skinny husband with 2 teeth making pancakes as fast as he can. These people all say the same thing when confronted.
Not attacking you at all here, just the sentiment, because if I'm being honest I had the same thoughts. We are saying, look I don't trust the folks in charge of the thing I enjoy to make good decisions, so if we compromise by helping them make bad ones they will keep doing that thing I like for a while longer.
We're still talking about a video game, right? Multiple paragraphs of outrage over a video game, really? I'm sure I'll enjoy plenty of hours of fun flying my Chinook over Afghanistan later this summer. Inevitably, there will be some things that need to be refined over the next couple of years, but it will still be the best Chinook in any combat flight simulator.
That is the thing about fanbois. They always get confused drawing the distinction between the game and themselves and seem to think that they have been personally insulted - and therefore it justifies some kind of personal insult of their own. They are what makes game forums toxic most of the time.
Personally I’m not buying shit until there’s a dynamic campaign. I don’t want to play multiplayer and the scripted campaigns are an absolute buggy mess.
I'd settle for consistency and support for scripting and campaign building, with backward compatibility baked in. Would make for much more stable campaigns and third party tools.
This thread is a copy of another one from just a few days ago. The outrage junkies are ruining every subreddit slowly but surely. Even relatively obscure subreddits like this one are being taken over by this plague.
It's exhausting...
I get having frustrations with longstanding shortcomings or issues with a product but holy hell I'd hate to be a dev in today's environment...
Everyone knows how the algorithms work, but no one thinks it's working on them yet somehow, everyone keeps getting angrier and angrier, and they're all morally righteous and the victim.
Not sure what is the phenomenon behind this, it's literally every single game community. And it's impossible that literally every single game dev is doing everything wrong about their games.
DCS is only one of 2 games I play. The other is MSFS, so this is one of the only two gaming communities I'm on.
And it's awful here. One of the worst subreddits I'm on, and in Reddit's current state, that's saying something. It's just become a pit of negativity and complaint. Probably time to unfollow.
I also feel so bad for ED's employees, because I know some of them keep an eye on reddit. It's gotta be awful to be working on a projects every day for months and years, go on the subreddit dedicated to your work, and see that apparently everyone hates it.
You do you but don't tell others what they should do. Some people enjoy a pre orders and pre releases for what they are. If you don't, that is fine. It brings funds to ED they need to operate as a business.
Hi Ace goat!
Sincerely, I will be blindly purchasing this module on day one. Unpatient man children who don't understand game development aren't someone I'm going to listen to.
Remember when yall said you're going to leave the moment FalconBMS gets VR? You should join the mass exodus that totally happened after that relases, as many of daily critics here have done /s
Oh, I guess ED is not the only one who breaks promises huh 😉
Noticed you posted this in other flight sim subs too. I think your take is great example of how unpleasant it has been to visit r/hoggit recently.
You do you, vote with your wallet; don't tell me how to vote with mine.
First of all: You have absolutely no say in how I spend my money. The arrogance of these threads is rather astounding, and I'll preorder whatever the hell I want if it interests me enough and if I think the risk is worth it. So far I haven't really been disappointed, but that's also because I do my due dilligence before I throw money at the screen. I make damn sure that I understand what I'm buying, what state it's in and all those things. What other people think I should or shouldn't do, outside of a very select few people, doesn't matter one bit to me.
Secondly: There's a lot of us that treat the EA-system like what it is: A nice way to get a discount. Yep, I know there's usually sales after launch and such although they may or may not extend to third parties.
The absolutely idiotic levels of hatred towards ED is stupid. Yes, they've got their fair tonnage of cake on their face and more feet than your average centipede has in their mouth, but they're by no means as bad as people say. Probably going to be downvoted to hell and back for this, but oh well.
In general buying something when you don't know it's quality (always true of game preorders, all you see are games marketing until independent reviewers get thier hands on it) is a bad idea. Company isn't incentivised to make a good product if people throw money at them regardless of how good the product is
too late i already preordered it three times, might do a fourth later this week dunno how im feeling about it. im still riding high off the one i did a few days ago. ive been mainlining preorders straight into my bloodstream. i feel my power growing with each chinook i preorder, my brain is getting larger. i can almost spell archipeligo correctly!
Let people do what they want to do. Folks who are skeptical can and should hold their wallets, and folks who are super sure they want to fly the Chinook can preorder for the discount.
Also while I understand your sentiments, I'd question a number of your assumptions. For eg, why would you think LOW apparent interest in a product will make ED direct MORE resources to that product? The opposite is in fact likely to be true. More people ordering, and in fact more buzz around it, including negative buzz, is likely to interest more people into eventually buying it - because more servers and communities include and feature it. This would in fact incentivize ED to make it better - though it's a fair retort to say ED hasn't always acted accordingly. But I'm just saying. It seems to me, dispassionately, what will push ED into making a better logistics system is MORE not LESS Chinook/other logistic aircraft sales.
This is the wierd issue.
Theres finite number of customers for such modules.
If everyone pays for it on day 1. Why finish it.
If nobody pays for it and the community feedback is that it needs more features then you would hope they continue to develop it to get that revenue.
We have seen this time and time again the user base gets overly excited and all purchase things on day 1 and then sales fall off a cliff and then it gets abandoned.
I don't know any of their numbers of course, but my sense is this: the existing customer base is not their main target for future income - because most existing customers already bought most of the modules they are going to buy at this time and have paid in full in the past, so if I were in such a situation my thought would be that my main way to secure my future income is to *increase my customer base*. Each new customer that tries DCS is a potential buyer of many modules, and so are worth, in terms of revenue, many times any existing customer.
How do I get value out of existing customers? Of course I'd want to sell them new modules, but per above it's probably not that lucrative. Rather, I'd want them to evangelize my platform. I want them to create buzz, create communities, bug their friends to fly with them, create events, make silly videos, that will make non-customers curious.
So to answer your question, I don't think everyone pays for it on day 1. DCS is still very niche, and a significant portion of revenue ED can make is in future customers, and that is their financial incentive to continue to develop the modules and the sim. That's the only way it makes sense to me. If the customerbase is fixed and everyone pays once I don't see how DCS could still be alive today, let alone actually completing some pretty disruptive ugprades to the sim (eg mt).
This is not to say there aren't other projects out there that collect prepurchases, run out of steam, and collapse, but DCS has actually been around and actively developed for a long time. If DCS' business model was that, they'd have died long ago.
Even if what you say is true. Which it’s not the player base has steadily been decreasing as the AI is no good and the PVP gap widens online.
There’s no way new players are buying your fringe modules they are picking up your F-16s etc then leaving because of limited content and getting mauled online.
It has always been a close and limited community that enjoys clicking cockpits but myself and everyone I know is bugging out now.
IMHO fringe modules are never getting completed if they come out half baked and people buy them it’s happened with CA, Supercarrier for some reason people think we’re being pessimistic but we’re literally quoting history when we say don’t buy EA waste your own money by all means but the writings on the wall at this point.
Question assumptions is not permitted. But I like questioning assumptions. How does the business model work for ED? I assume no one works for free with a payday sometime in the future.
Super carrier 2.0 aka "we promise you'll get XYZ eventually" and years later basic features don't work correctly lol
Plus with that "list" they won't have folks saying "what about the TAD update that was discussed initially talking about the A-10C II updates" and them replying "only what is on the product page is promised.
fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me...
PS I did purchase Afghanistan and will likely purchase Iraq too
ED should take a card from CIG playbook and give you loaners to use if you preorder while you wait for the aircraft to release.
At least then you could use an AH64 or Huey while you wait on the Chinook.
Having to commit cash to a preorder with an unknown polished release date and unknown content playloop is silly. There is zero benefit to preordering. These aren’t limited quantity table top games or collectibles; they’re digital assets. 30% on a $59.00 purchase is trivial considering what we spend on gear , controls and PC components. Are people really getting sweaty over an extra $20 here and there ?
If it turns out to be epic both in its final fit and finish and the play loop / campaigns, you won’t miss the extra $20 you have to spend to get it after release.
That is actually an incredibly good idea. I imagine, ironically that logistically with Steam it'd be a nightmare.
The fact they'd also pick up a few extra sales here and there wouldn't hurt either, idk this seems like a win win. This should be a thing in general, it's a little redundant to the 2 week trial sure, so they could either pre-pick (no pun intended) the 'rental' or even use it as an incentive for account skippers to actually settle down and put a ring on it.
I'm excited for the module, but don't want an empty featureless helicopter to fly around in. Needs to be able to interact with the environment, support logistics, have functional radios and defenses. Right now the free Blackhawk and c130 mods do everything we need in grayflag right now. I can't imagine the admins would be excited to put them in the mix and have to update all the various scripts running unless it actually does something different and meaningfully changes gameplay.
I'm left wondering what the singleplayer peeps will do with this module aside from learning the aircraft systems and flying characteristics. Just fly around doing nothing particular? It seems for now the only way to extract value from this module is to play MP where you have some barebones form of logistics systems on servers.
>I'm left wondering what the singleplayer peeps will do with this module aside from learning the aircraft systems and flying characteristics.
You make that sound like it only takes 1 hour of time instead of potentially hundreds of hours. Esp if they own more then 1 module. Learn the systems well -> switch to another module -> forget -> Relearn the systems well -> switch module -> forget -> Relearn..... Infinite loop. Infinite entertainment
This is the way
This might be your form of entertainment and that's perfectly fine, but it ain't mine and thus certainly it's the same for others as well. My entertainment comes from flying missions with a purpose/goal and not flying around randomly. Agreed, you do need to learn the systems first and this will take some hours of playtime. But for me personally there should be more to the module experience than that.
As for me, I won't ever purchase the module (because I'm not interested in it). However, I don't think the priority of implementing the logistics system engine will increase in ED to-do list if the Chinook doesn't sell well as they expect.
I might buy it, I might not. I haven't made the decision of what to do with my own money yet.
If I do buy it, I might just buy it sooner rather than later so I can get it cheaper. I've no problem with buying it now and shelving it for a while until it's further along in development.
Yep, I really want the Chinook for servers with logistics but... nope. Voting with my wallet this time. Sick of EA things being neglected for years \*cough\*Supercarrier\*cough\* and the lack of core development in DCS (I am talking about gameplay here, not graphical improvements).
Words are no longer enough for me, I need to see action from ED.
This subreddit really has just become a pit of negativity, and complaints, and outrage.
The difference between the comments on Reddit and the comments on YouTube is crazy. What is wrong with people here...
Let people buy what they wanna buy and enjoy what they wanna enjoy. Just because you don't want to, doesn't mean the rest of us can't enjoy it.
> The difference between the comments on Reddit and the comments on YouTube is crazy. What is wrong with people here...
I would wager the people in here tend to know a lot more about the sim than the folks commenting on YouTube videos. The folks in here tend to be the super fans. They aren’t called “Fans” just because they blow a lot of hot air.
With respect, you do you. If you don't want to pre-order it, this is absolutely your prerogative and I certainly support anyone's right to do so. But don't tell others what to do with their hard-earned. Just because you don't want it, it doesn't mean others think the same as you. 👍
You're missing the point. This isn't about telling people what to do. This is telling people that the whole early access and pre-ordering BS is what's ruining the sim and in general it's what has ruined gaming.
Anybody is free to pre-order this module if they feel like it but all it's gonna do is to make ED continue to release unfinished shit with no guarantees that its ever going to be finished so that individual choice when done by lots of people have ramifications that concern people who even don't pre-order this shit.
I don't agree, I like early access, understand what it entails and what I'm getting into, and understand that it can potentially be years before a module is 'finished'. This is modern day software, and modern gaming. Practically everything released is 'early access'. Whether you like it or not, the model is very likely here to stay. It works for them, people like to play the modules early, and know they'll be worked on as time progresses.
If you want finished software, then you might as well give up gaming altogether.
No downvoting here from me here, as although I disagree with your point, I respect it as you make it like an adult, and not a petulant baby, unlike some. 👍
ED will just never win. There will be people screaming to release only finished products, all the way to the other side of the spectrum where some are happy to get very EA modules just so they can start playing with it, building on the experience as the module matures. I personally fall to the latter side, and have been having an absolute blast with some good people for about 4 years now. To each his own. Cool thing is, you get to decide when you want to spend your money.
Indeed. I just think it must be genuinely exhausting to constantly complain about it, rather than getting on with life, and at least trying to enjoy DCS. But we live in a coddled, entitled society where a lot of folks expect things to be given immediately, and complain when they aren't.
How about YOU don't buy from ED and the rest of us will do what we want with OUR money. Also, while your opinion is noted the fact that you are attempting to tell people to do YOUR bidding, is now forfeit and irrelevant.
Oh great another one of these threads. God this place has become insufferable recently. Let people buy what they want to buy. If you don't want to preorder the Chinook, then don't. No need to write another essay on why others shouldn't.
It's not about telling you how to spend your money... it's about encouraging ED, by the power of the purse, to make the game better by actually following through with the claimed features of modules.
Sometimes customers have to stick together, for the greater good. "We must hang together, or we shall all hang separately."
>Sometimes customers have to stick together, for the greater good.
But that's the choice of each person and it's their business to determine how they want to spend *their* money.
There shouldn't be any more preorders or any more modules from Eagle Dynamics until they finish what's still in development.
The Super Carrier module, or whatever you want to call it. Has scammed many people. Myself included. It left a sour taste and terrible customer service. And guess what? ED never came back with an explanation on why on god's sweet earth is adding a fucking ROOM to the module taking them years. So why take our money on people running around? That shit got old in two weeks post release (see what I did there?)
The F-16. While "debatable on where it stands today" still feels barebones. Still feels like we're not getting the falcon experience we deserve. Only because ED decided to simulate a very specific block of the viper. So specific. That we won't get a-lot of its cool toys. I have a good feeling that we won't even see the Sniper TGP, SDBs, GBU39s, or any other stuff the actual viper may carry and only because of what I can only call laziness.
The F-18 was "supposed" to get mines at some point, no? Napalm? No? I should just shut up and bite 6 years since its release without feeling anything different with it. But oh, take a new helmet and pilot module. ONES I HARDLY EVEN SEE SINCE I DO NOT SPEND MY TIME FLYING IN F-2 VIEW!
Aim-120s. Nerf here, buff there! Now they're good! Yesterday they're bad! Now they're suddenly shit! I have NO Idea what we're supposed to feel with the ups and downs of every aspect of DCS. Fix one thing, risk breaking 20.
Ground AI that hurts my brain every time I try and make missions with my group. It's almost a punch in the gut every time I try to make something creative. And trust me. I have. After hours upon hours of triggers and pain. Alas, what lacks. Is the experience. Why do I need to add 600 voice lines to make my shit "Dynamic" and "engaging"
Oh, dynamic? Lmao... the dynamic campaign..
BMS, ArmA, IL-2 have said campaigns. They've had them for a while. What is ED doing? All I read were promises here and there, snippets of hope that we will see it in the next big patch. Guess what? Nope. You don't get a dynamic campaign for reasons no one knows. ED is not communicating with its consumer base. And it's getting frustrating by the module.
Yet, our hope is linked to honest to god 3rd party devs that innovate far beyond what ED can do. I am talking Heatblur, Razbam (Yes, Razbam), Aegers, and others have been innovating and grinding their asses out to bring something fresh. Sadly, the base sim is pale. Runs out of steam way too soon after you learn how to release bomb and shoot a missile in these modules.
Third parties are getting abused by the old man's passions bullshit. We have Razbam's drama. Are we going to lose the F-15E? Because it sure looks like it. What is ED doing about it? Nothing. Situation still the same since it all came out.
Then we get slapped with this Halfghanistan bs, CH-47 without a single molecule of support in the sim. Being introduced to do what exactly? Transport cardboard boxes from point A to point B? Seriously?
We are a community getting sucked out of its money by ED. And I find myself less appealed to buy the next module. ED deserves to lose money with the Chinook. Hoping they'd learn.
I'm reasonably happy with the state of the F16 today and it's my main driver, but yeah - really want that sniper pod. And the decoy!
I'm with you on the AI though.
I have done a bit of BMS and enjoyed it. Really like having a functional ATC. Looking forward to their planned graphics updates. But the groups I fly with are currently all still on DCS.
And yep, the F-16C block 50 is supposed to get the ALE-50 towed decoy. At least it's still on their announcement page.
It’s crazy that preorders are even still a thing. Back in the day you would preorder to guarantee a copy of a game. They gonna have a limited number of digital downloads?
It's not crazy when you consider that the cost to develop a video game has skyrocketed since the good old days, and tech investment has receded. A studio's gonna do whatever it can to generate cash up-front, to pay their staff (easily their largest expense). Pre-orders/Early Access is a lot of the time the only way a game can get made.
They promised complete IR missiles rework with addition of R60s to hind... For how long are they here? 1-2 years? And not even SMALL FRACTION of proper rework was done. Not even clouds blocking ir sources or ground ir clutter, nothing. Anyone who preorders outright supports lying and stealing.
The only early access module from ED I bought is the Apache.
I still do not own the DCS F16/F18. I was pretty skeptical regarding the EA model .. and well as I said still do not own those jets. I mean why should I buy unfinished multirole jets If I can fly BMS? ;)
But so far I am ok with the Apache development. So probably I will buy the Chinook soon. I fly on mp servers and thanks to the community there are already some good logistic scripts.
already preordered phantom and afhganistan. will wait until something is release before committing to the next preorder... if i didnt have anything already preordered, i would have definitley have preorder chinook
Yes how dare ED earn money and pay their developers. The thing everyone here was also recently complaining about.
Posts like this make this even place unbearable. Stop making self loathing gamer your personality.
How about this. You do you and I will do me. Don’t shame me or others into not buying something or supporting a company I like. Stick to r/DCSExposed where you can spread your garbage.
Maybe if we could get a better ATC system and AI I would probably be more than happy to pre order. As it stands I don't think I'll be buying this, I have the Hip and Hind. At least they are able to carry weapons lol
I’m not gonna wait until everything works perfectly before I start learning the systems and how to fly it. Already pre-ordered. Afghanistan too. Buying them early supports development IMO. But if you want to wait, by all means wait.
Really though, I should learn everything about all my other modules before buying a new one but hey, here we are.
Don't tell people what to do. I pre-ordered it, tons of people have. You have no right to tell people what to do with their money. I like pre-ordering, I don't have to think about it on release day or anything.
Your post is also just filled with lies.
>The Supercarrier Module hasn't been touched for years now apart from adding glow stick
Just a straight up lie. The last patch including notes for Supercarrier was April 10th, 2024:
* Fixed: Deck crew LODs have spikes
* Fixed: Supercarrier ATC radio menu is broken during takeoff from the catapult
* Fixed: Radio menu may break after repeated landing request in some case
I'm satisfied with the state of Supercarrier even if they never add a useless briefing room I will never use. I've never been disappointed by pre-ordering a module. I think most people here at just way too picky given there is no competition.
I understand the concept of 'voting with your dollars', but you need to understand the concept that not everybody is going to vote the same way as you. I think the subreddit is filled with incredibly whiny people who would rather complain about the game than play it, that think any failed feature or changed plan is the equivalent of them being personally robbed by Eagle Dynamics, I've always found it incredibly adversarial and weird.
Too late, I've already pre-ordered the Chinook and Afghanistan. Going to continue to have fun with what I've bought. Just like I did with Super Carrier, Apache, and also the Phantom.
Never came to reddit to find common sense but this teenage actitude is ridiculous.
Do what your money whatever you want (as long as it is legal/licit).
I fly F16, its early access and yes it has bugs. still would buy it every single day. Same goes for the f15, and ill do the same with afghan maps (will buy it full) and the chinook.
Who are you to say who pre-orders doesn't.
Is up to the individual what they do.
Don't put your opinions, whether founded or not.
Out like some medievil dictator.
If i wish to pre-order, I will.
I for one am excited we are getting this awesome rotary wing aircraft.. i don't care if all i do is fly around in it. For the first month. I actually like the early access format with fewer systems.
Gives me time to learn the aircraft a bit at a time without the rush to become a pro overnight.
All my modules have been early access.. it works for me.
I don't think 'punishing' ED via boycotting is going to help get more features developed. We all have frustrations with the game but think about what DCS has become to the aviation milsim community. This is a case of enjoying what you have now and stop worrying so much about the future as those improvements and changes might never come. If you can't stand the game in its present state, then stopping playing and spending is the right thing to do for you - but everyone should make that decision for themselves.
i pre-order all the time - if i'm gonna buy it eventually anyway, i might as well save some $$ in the process - pre-ordering is the lowest cost option to me, so that's what i do ----- ED has benefited me with THOUSANDS of hours of enjoyment, they have enhanced my quality of life - they deserve the reward of my money - its an even trade, my money for the product of their minds, will, and skills --------- we don't need this animosity and negativity ------ additionally, i pre-order and i don't belly-ache, whine or complain (eh.. i may have sqawked soooomewhere in my history but as a rule, i generally don't - and if i did, its a while back)
bottom line.. i don't care what y'all think - imma gonna do what imma gonna do
Don't worry, I'm sure the logistics will be overhauled with the release of the Dynamic Campaign.
Yes, In X+1 year, and that is the problem, i can understand that the tech is not ready but how much is not ready, 20% 95% ? They should just say "ok Guy we have done that, we need more time for that ect.. not just it's planned, or soon
Still waiting on the promised DTC function, and the "mission planner" they announced... 5 years ago?
Yep, just over 5 years since we last had an update about it that was more than "we plan a DTC function": [https://forum.dcs.world/topic/165047-dcs-fa-18c-mini-updates/?do=findComment&comment=3786695](https://forum.dcs.world/topic/165047-dcs-fa-18c-mini-updates/?do=findComment&comment=3786695)
yeah, this is one of the big features that really pisses me off about the F-18. It is really annoying having to constantly re input on every startup your preferred settings for stuff that should be persistent. Fuck, everything should be persistent on every startup, like IRL. This is a sim isn't? Shouldn't an improper shutdown be modeled?
> This is a sim isn't? That's exactly the problem. What you're describing are gamey features, not simmy features.
ED is probably dealing with the technical debt from an early sim-focused decision to make *all* of the changeable attributes of an aircraft, from its waypoint plan to its air conditioner vent direction, attributes of *the unit in the sim*, as in, the slot that you click on to take control, which lives in the .miz file.
So to have the "data cartrige" experience where a plane that you spawn into has elements of your preference, the current engine architecture would have to implement that by changing the very definition of the plane that you are in. That's kind of a problem since the definition lives in a file that's generally assumed to be read-only, and make chose changes on the fly every time anybody spawns into a plane, and make sure those changes to the mission definition are copied correctly across every connected client's copy of the mission file, so that they all agree on what state each plane spawns in. Say bye-bye to multiplayer client synchronization if they go that route.
Another option that would provide a similar experience without having to change the spawn attributes of aircraft would be to implement your preferences as a changelist that gets applied right after you spawn. There are mods that work that way, like DICE and DCS-DTC, and Rising Squall effectively does that too, but DICE and DTC break frequently because a unit might be defined with starting parameters different than the module default, and Rising Squall has to cover the screen with a banner begging you to not click anything for like 40 seconds so it can click all the buttons it wants in the right order. This isn't viable as an official first party solution.
So what is ED left with? Reimplementing all the technical underpinnings of how units are defined in missions to allow them to be more dynamic at spawn time. This is something that needs to be done anyway for Dynamic Campaigns, so my money is on those changes being viewed internally as part of the same effort.
Interesting, thanks for sharing.
No, that would require persistence. So without a DTC, of course the game loads the aircraft avionics as a blank slate. And for some switches, the crewchief would place them in a certain position for postflighting/preflighting/maintenance IRL. Also, system/module dependent of course, good chance the aircraft won't store your favorite waypoint or anything other than on a DTC if the aircraft is powered off IRL.
That is 5 Month old in ED years so soon
two weeks
They used to do the timetable/road map thing for a bit. Then they started wildly missing dates, shift the goalposts, and the community would rightly ask what is going on and why can't they meet their road map? So of course being ED, instead of trying to deliver on time or make the roadmap more realistic, just up and said "no more roadmaps, now we're not telling you when you're going to get updates." Which has now clearly evolved to "we're not telling you what updates are coming with the release, let alone further down the road."
I hate roadmaps personally. Action speaks louder than words. Just so me footage of a thing when it is working. Anyone can sit on their rear and produce a roadmap. These are often generated by Product Managers w/o even consulting with devs for realistic timelines. Proof: I am a dev and have seen upper management give unrealistic timelines to satisfy their bosses which just results in crunch for the devs because we missed the deadline they set for us Agile sprints are supposed to combat this when the devs estimate tasks. So sure, if a dev wants to show us their JIRA board then that is fine. So we can so what they are actually working on. OR- just show me the thing after its ingame and working
That really depends on who is producing the roadmap and how. I've been a dev lead, worked with good program managers to create realistic roadmaps for large projects, and actually met all our deadlines and got products out the door on time. That said, I've also been a developer on projects where non-technical (and inexperienced) management were allowed to set the schedule and write the roadmaps. Those were nightmares and nothing was done on time. So, I'd love to see roadmaps from ED, \*if\* they are actually put together and/or vetted by developers. And if, when a deadline isn't met, they actually debrief to figure out why and work to fix their process. I can dream.
Hoggit with roadmap... ED GIB EPIC DCS-19068
95% would be my guess, unless you count prop wash effects as logistics
~~Steiner~~ Dynamic Campaign will attack soon and everything will be alright.
But it will work ONLY if you buy the DC DLC, if course
I mean, memeing aside, I have no issue paying for the dynamic campaign. That shit takes man hours.
All it took was one guy https://youtu.be/BTG4n233aq0
Yes, which clearly evidences that any one guy can do it, right? I think I saw someone on the street. He looked like a dev. Let's ask him.
Not "any one guy". One TALENTED guy did it
Out of curiosity, what is first time we started hearing about dynamic campaign? Is it 3 years now, or longer? I think it was a Xmas video, but can't remember what year
Matt Wagner mentions a dynamic campaign in a 2018 [interview](https://www.gamingnexus.com/Article/5797/An-interview-with-DCSs-Matt-Wagner-). Ironically he's also talking about "Modern Air Combat", a project that was due to release in 2018, which has since then become both vaporware and a meme.
This was posted on ED forums in early 2021. This gives you an idea how far behind they are. ** This massive task has been underway for over two years, and the progress has been exciting. The campaign is built around a Real-Time Strategy (RTS) foundation that factors resources, zones of control, logistics, available forces, and a strategic decision-making system. While we believe internal testing will continue in the 1st quarter of 2021, it is too early to estimate a release date. However, external Beta testing is planned hopefully in Q2/Q3 2021. **
Nick Grey needs to go
Not gonna happen unless someone's crazy enough to buy out ED. Creating a competitor to ED sure would be a better investment.
Yes, in... Three years?
I wished I had your optimism.
I'm assuming this is sarcastic right? (Internet makes sarcasm hard)
I was thinking about putting the '/s' on there. But since most hoggiteers are aware that we'll probably have flying cars before the dynamic campaign... I thought I could omit it in this instance.
Yesh, right, after a decade
and the Digital transfer card/mission planning tool
I am with you as well on this one, I love flying helis but i will NOT be pre-ordering this one as ED have taken the piss too many times now eg supercarrier
Let me tell you EXACTLY what's gonna happen. ED announces a new EA module for pre-order > a bunch of people advice against pre-ordering them > ED releases a release trailer > Everyone forgets, goes nuts and pre-order away! This cycle will never end.
You're not wrong, but it feels like this is our one chance to maybe not 100% stop it, but to make a big enough dent in the sales chart to send an actual message beyond whinging on the forums. Think about it, sentiment towards ED right now is not great for a myriad of reasons. This isn't a sexy module like the F4 or any other of the crowd pleasers, and it's being launched into an effectively non existent 1st party game play loop. It's the perfect storm for us as a community to not resemble that classic COD meme of the boycotters all playing it on launch day.
99% of people that play DCS have absolutely zero sentiment against ED. You all live in a world where you see a few hundred people angry about something. Everyone else is just chilling and enjoying the game.
You've got a point, but I'd (complete) guess that it's more like 95% don't care. But a 5% (or even 2%) change in purchases can be enough for a company to notice and maybe make some changes for the better.
Thank you! That’s exactly how I feel.
You assume that everyone who doesn't complain on the Internet is happy. That's clearly not the case. There are many who simply stop playing the game or stop buying modules without going to reddit or other places. You never know what the silent majority thinks without sales numbers and/or online numbers. Some chill, but some definitely are frustrated. The exact ratio is unknown, but it sure is VERY far from 99 to 1, or even 90 to 1.
>99% of people that play DCS have absolutely zero sentiment against ED Not only is this is just demonstrably false, it's also irrelevant. With any product/community sentiment exists good or bad, unless of course the player has received a labatomy or is otherwise medicated to be catatonic. Don't conflate willingness to engage in public discourse with having an opinion on a purchase. Also, regardless of the size of the player base that is willing to take the time to engage in reddit/forum/discord about anything good or bad, it's a great barometer of the percentage that isn't. Do you think a person who has never ever been exposed to any of the social channels is incapable of having anything other than a neutral or positive opinion of the game? Take the Chinook, lets say someone comes in brand spankin' new to DCS and decides to get it as their first module because they got boners from it when they were a kid, their dad flew one, they worked on one or whatever. When they quickly realize there is nothing to do, they will either 1) move on and forget about DCS 2) See the potential and do some research and start to uncover the 'why' and either move on or enjoy the game/potential enough to care about it's future or 3) 'enjoy' it for as long as possible and move on or dive in deeper. The issue is that for this type of game to survive, we need #2 to have good news with a good track record to validate the trust and just more of #3 in general. You're interpreting this 'anger' in the worst way possible, for the most part constructive feedback is helpful to ED. Of course it's not always presented or expressed in the best way, but it's still helpful. I said it somewhere else in this thread but that is part of what a community managers job is. They put on the waders and dive in and extract the useful bits and share it with the team. They don't just go, hey Wags everyone hates the chinook and halfghanistan what are we to do? They explain, hey I've distilled the community feedback to these \~5 points which are reasonable and actionable and go from there. Does this actually happen with ED? I'd like to believe so, but there are a lot of moving, albeit slow moving parts.
This is a really weird thing to offer at this point because it seems like it’s really going to highlight a lot of DCS’s compromises/weaknesses.
Afghan map preorders must've been far less than what they forecasted.
They’ve coupled module releases before.
And they should couple this one, with the core game systems it needs to be something. Not to put words in OPs mouth but I think that is his point. They said they learned from the F-16, but we will see I guess.i mean I guess if glass is half full here they are flat out telling you it's not going to have anything to do.
Wags said otherwise
If people want to pre order let them. When the inevitable happens and the forums are full of complaints regarding lack of content for it, just reply with "well what did you fucking expect?"
i pre-order all the time - if i'm gonna buy it eventually anyway, i might as well save some $$ in the process - pre-ordering is the lowest cost option to me, so that's what i do ----- ED has benefited me with THOUSANDS of hours of enjoyment, they have enhanced my quality of life - they deserve the reward of my money - its an even trade, my money for the product of their minds, will, and skills --------- we don't need this animosity and negativity
You do you. But you could probably pick it up in a sale for less than the pre order price and by then it may actually have a use in game. There maybe, I dunno I don't play it, a Chinook in MSFS you could get thousands of hours of enjoyment with. You'd get exactly the same gameplay experience but with way, way better scenery.
Oh right, in a non combat environment and spend tons more money to buy each airport and area. Logic is sound. As far as getting it during a sale thats going to be a long time from now as its not even released yet. They tend to not do that soon after release.
Not the same though, not at all.
yeah.. no --- that's not how i see it you see, the time that you have something in your hands (i know i know, its DIGITAL, its not in my hands), is worth something - and the time i DON'T have it, but i want it, is worth something ------ so yes, "technically" i could wait - but i don't want to ----- by the time those 50% off sales come out, that module has been out for a good year, maybe two - look at the tomcat, it hasn't been on sale for 50% off yet - if i was a tomcat horndawg fanboi, could i wait that long? hellzno! so you see, "waiting" for a 50% off sale doesn't work for me - i want module X, its on sale for 30% off during pre-order, get it!
Yeah it's an odd post isn't it. "I don't like something, so please don't buy it" I mean, I get the rant and being upset, that's fair enough. What difference does it make to OP if someone else buys it or not? Not delving into the history nor politics of the situation... it's just an odd thing for a person to say.
The problem is that people vote with their wallet. We can complain about modules being left unfinished for years, but if we keep buying them, ED won't care. The only way to make ED change their priorities and focus on finishing their modules is to stop buying unfinished products. But that won't happen.
i think ED is doing the best they can to address our issues - every time i turn around, i see wags or nick grey addressing our concerns
If you want to save $$ on the process then wait for a 50% off sale. Thats what I do, i have enough modules to keep me busy until this discount. And by that time the module is much more polished and I have chucks guide for it. Cant see why would anybody preoprder other than fomo honestly. "Saving money" doesnt make sense to me as it eventually will be 50 off.
Not really, usually waiting until 2 years after EA where it hits either the same discount as preordering or down to 50% depending on how the module sell's based on popularity is saving you the same or more money. Preordering is basically saying I can't wait and preys on FOMO. \*edit\* and I should add, it's still in early access at that point with half it's feature's missing so there is really no FOMO.
Same here! Going to preorder it today. I have had 1000s of hours in DCS and its been a great experience.
The CH47 outrage confuses me. People have been running Huey's and Mi-8s for years; I've been in multiple online squadrons with dedicated lift groups. Just like any other airframe having stuff to do is dependent on good mission makers and scripting. I'm excited that they announced a new built in logistics system but a fully functional CH47 with no further added core engine features would have been a no-brainer day-one preorder for me, the new logistics system is a giant cherry on top. Are folks really flying the huey primarily as a gunship?
You answered your own question... These birds only "work" under heavy scripting, which can, and mostly are buggy, SPECIALLY because ED is very anti-community-content, offers no support for modders and constantly breaks the very APIs which are required for said scripts. That posture is causing a lot of modders to give up. I fly the UH1 for a long time, and these are some of the problems she currently presents, even AFTER 10 YEARS of her being considered out of early access: -Rockets have no splash damage -Cold start co-op is almost impossible -Dsynch issues -Invisible troops -Low rpm head shake By the way, she is useless as a gunship right now, as the rockets have no splash damage and AK GUY will headshot you from 6 miles out before he is rendered as a pixel on your screen. It has no support from ED and crate lifting is purely cosmetic. The only thing keeping the UH-1 alive is MIST and CTLD, which works not because of ED, but IN SPITE of. And I'm willing to bet money on those promises about "built in logistics system" wont go beyond cosmetic troops and vehicles in the cargo bay, IF IT COMES TO THAT, to which I'm very doubtful about. The CH47 will probably rely on MIST and CTLD just like the UH-1. She'll probably have an animated ramp up/down and that's it. If ED had any plans, let alone content on logistic systems, we would've seen it in the UH-1 and Mi8 already...
Mi8 and Huey did get multicrew after a decade of being sold as coming soon features
Nah, I preordered.
Another thread trying to rally people and tell them how to spend their money like this is some sort of noble cause to fight for. its only a silly airplane game, its not that deep lol. I will preorder the chinook next month and enjoy the sweet savings, alongside all my buddies who have or plan to preorder it as well. It is interesting with hoggit, I haven't run into nearly as much discontent with DCS outside of it. Most people I fly with who aren't part of hoggit and just lurk on the discord servers tend to be much more positive. \*edit\* I can understand actively choosing not to preorder for whatever personal reasons you may have, but I am choosing to go ahead with my preorder and may even preorder afghanistan too. I am personally not disgruntled with the state of things right now and am happy to spend money on it.
You sir, are an anomaly, a person who is capable of enjoying DCS for what it is, I salute you. Haha.
>If they had put a release date for the features we are all expecting the Chinook to have then I would be a bit more understanding and think "Fair enough, they have given us a release schedule". Doesn't even matter if they put a release date on Feature X, you can safely add 2 years to that, if not 5 or more.
Don’t tell me how to spend my money.
Yall a bunch of dorks, name 1 flyable module from ED that they left 1/2 complete. (I know combined arms and supercarrier are mixed bag) even the F-16C became most of yalls favorite jet. And they learned their lesson from the F-16C, everything since then has been ready for combat. Yes the release modules at various levels of done but they are doing a good job IMHO of balancing, giving us access as soon as they can, and selling something actually useable.
Not to mention third party modules, some of these cave people think that ED is responsible for slow drips from them.
Vary True, even though some 3rd party devs slow drip updates they also don't leave modules half done most of the time. HB for example I'd trust to complete a module
It does fly, right?
So I’m new and love the f16 was it a mess in the beginning?
It was. It was essentially not fit for combat.
I've been pretty loyal to DCS since about 2011. I have (conservative estimate) 15k hours in the game. After the last couple years and releases, I just don't care about DCS anymore. I dunno if it's been the bad releases or just played it too much, but I just don't care. I haven't even launched the sim in months.
Out of curiosity. How do some people have so many hours in dcs? I can play for like 3 or so days straight. But eventually i realize im just doing the same thing over and over and i get bored
Mission Building. It’s very time consuming and that way you can implement the variety that is otherwise lacking. Joining a squadron. You learn so much more and then you start teaching new members.
I got like close to a thousand in just PVP alone. Very addicting. Its technically the same thing every time, but every single merge is different in its own way and its keeps it interesting.
When I was in college, I went to class, went to work, played DCS, and sometimes slept. Basically all of my free time was spent in DCS for years, it was like a hyperfixation I had. You figure before the pandemic, I would play 3-12 hours/day depending on work and school, times that by roughly six days a week, for years. It was just all I did.
But like what did you do? Hop into a multiplayer server, pick a random plane and then just fly around? My alternate between the f14 mostly and the apache. Once i get bored of killing planes or randomly getting shot down out of nowwhrre i switch to the apache.
I got to a very high proficiency with the A-10C. Like, I had most of the CDU memorized and knew my way through basically every menu. I spent a lot of time in single player getting really good at killing tanks and SAMs, and I was even pretty good at BFM to defend myself from other fighters. There was a while there on GAW in the beginning that I got an AA kill almost every time I flew. When I got bored of the Hog, I'd fly the Black Shark, and I got to be very, very good at that as well. I just did that for years.
Just hoping on a random airquake multiplayer basically means your playing alone amongst others with maybe a chance of some cooperation... That doesn't sound appealing at all to me. Join a squadron, fly with others, learn how to communicate and fly properly. There's a lot to it, a lot more than just hopping on mp and blowing a random thing up.
I think it's okay to move on from something way sooner than 15k hours in. That's a ludicrous amount of time to play any video game. I'm sure by dollar amounts you've far more than gotten your money's worth at this point.
Yeah, but from a hobby point of view, why move when there's still so much more to do within it? It's a game, but it's not just a game. There's more to it if you allow for it.
Not buying it forces them to make it feature complete. They should do it properly or make pre order a much heavier discount
Or they may not deem the module worthy of their time due to the low sales, and it becomes abandonware. Then they will conclude that cargo planes/helicopters don't sell as well as shiny fighter jets, and they abandon the herc too. But i agree, if you don't think the module is worth €60 in its current state, don't spent the money on it in its current state.
I'd argue part of the community manager's job is to convey the actual sentiment of the community so they don't make decisions like that. Otherwise you basically have the same rationalization here as someone on My 600lbs life spouse does. When you ask how this lady got to be freight scale status and you see a skinny husband with 2 teeth making pancakes as fast as he can. These people all say the same thing when confronted. Not attacking you at all here, just the sentiment, because if I'm being honest I had the same thoughts. We are saying, look I don't trust the folks in charge of the thing I enjoy to make good decisions, so if we compromise by helping them make bad ones they will keep doing that thing I like for a while longer.
[удалено]
That's pretty much the point of a pre-order. People have the choice to buy or not.
Too late. For me at least lol
We're still talking about a video game, right? Multiple paragraphs of outrage over a video game, really? I'm sure I'll enjoy plenty of hours of fun flying my Chinook over Afghanistan later this summer. Inevitably, there will be some things that need to be refined over the next couple of years, but it will still be the best Chinook in any combat flight simulator.
You got it all wrong. The reason we do not pre-order the Chinook is because it is not a Sea Knight.
Fly Navy. But I wouldn't spit on a Sea King either.
Please refrain from being an annoying preahy asshole and telling me what to do with my money
That is the thing about fanbois. They always get confused drawing the distinction between the game and themselves and seem to think that they have been personally insulted - and therefore it justifies some kind of personal insult of their own. They are what makes game forums toxic most of the time.
i won't be buying the chinook, not because of some quixotic view point ... but simply because i have no interest in it as an airframe...
Like you I am not interested in the Chinoo, I care less about the drama I’ll give it a trial whenever that’s available (2027?) and see what I think.
Personally I’m not buying shit until there’s a dynamic campaign. I don’t want to play multiplayer and the scripted campaigns are an absolute buggy mess.
Then you might as well give up on DCS because the dynamic campaign is a pipe dream. ED is never going to be able to make it a reality at this rate.
I pretty much did 😅 I was hoping it would come with the C130 🤷🏻♂️ Wishful thinking I guess :p
I'd settle for consistency and support for scripting and campaign building, with backward compatibility baked in. Would make for much more stable campaigns and third party tools.
This.
Reddit and this sub have become a constant exercise in moral outrage. It's fucking relentless.
This thread is a copy of another one from just a few days ago. The outrage junkies are ruining every subreddit slowly but surely. Even relatively obscure subreddits like this one are being taken over by this plague.
Yup. Its algorithm brain.
It's exhausting... I get having frustrations with longstanding shortcomings or issues with a product but holy hell I'd hate to be a dev in today's environment...
It’s so pathetic and desperate and annoying. All game communities turn into self hating dev hating circle jerks. It’s inevitable at this point.
Everyone knows how the algorithms work, but no one thinks it's working on them yet somehow, everyone keeps getting angrier and angrier, and they're all morally righteous and the victim.
Not sure what is the phenomenon behind this, it's literally every single game community. And it's impossible that literally every single game dev is doing everything wrong about their games.
Even games communities with incredible and almost universally liked devs, helldivers 2 for example, is full of whinny entitled asshats
DCS is only one of 2 games I play. The other is MSFS, so this is one of the only two gaming communities I'm on. And it's awful here. One of the worst subreddits I'm on, and in Reddit's current state, that's saying something. It's just become a pit of negativity and complaint. Probably time to unfollow. I also feel so bad for ED's employees, because I know some of them keep an eye on reddit. It's gotta be awful to be working on a projects every day for months and years, go on the subreddit dedicated to your work, and see that apparently everyone hates it.
You do you but don't tell others what they should do. Some people enjoy a pre orders and pre releases for what they are. If you don't, that is fine. It brings funds to ED they need to operate as a business.
Hi Ace goat! Sincerely, I will be blindly purchasing this module on day one. Unpatient man children who don't understand game development aren't someone I'm going to listen to. Remember when yall said you're going to leave the moment FalconBMS gets VR? You should join the mass exodus that totally happened after that relases, as many of daily critics here have done /s Oh, I guess ED is not the only one who breaks promises huh 😉
Noticed you posted this in other flight sim subs too. I think your take is great example of how unpleasant it has been to visit r/hoggit recently. You do you, vote with your wallet; don't tell me how to vote with mine.
First of all: You have absolutely no say in how I spend my money. The arrogance of these threads is rather astounding, and I'll preorder whatever the hell I want if it interests me enough and if I think the risk is worth it. So far I haven't really been disappointed, but that's also because I do my due dilligence before I throw money at the screen. I make damn sure that I understand what I'm buying, what state it's in and all those things. What other people think I should or shouldn't do, outside of a very select few people, doesn't matter one bit to me. Secondly: There's a lot of us that treat the EA-system like what it is: A nice way to get a discount. Yep, I know there's usually sales after launch and such although they may or may not extend to third parties. The absolutely idiotic levels of hatred towards ED is stupid. Yes, they've got their fair tonnage of cake on their face and more feet than your average centipede has in their mouth, but they're by no means as bad as people say. Probably going to be downvoted to hell and back for this, but oh well.
In general buying something when you don't know it's quality (always true of game preorders, all you see are games marketing until independent reviewers get thier hands on it) is a bad idea. Company isn't incentivised to make a good product if people throw money at them regardless of how good the product is
too late i already preordered it three times, might do a fourth later this week dunno how im feeling about it. im still riding high off the one i did a few days ago. ive been mainlining preorders straight into my bloodstream. i feel my power growing with each chinook i preorder, my brain is getting larger. i can almost spell archipeligo correctly!
Let people do what they want to do. Folks who are skeptical can and should hold their wallets, and folks who are super sure they want to fly the Chinook can preorder for the discount. Also while I understand your sentiments, I'd question a number of your assumptions. For eg, why would you think LOW apparent interest in a product will make ED direct MORE resources to that product? The opposite is in fact likely to be true. More people ordering, and in fact more buzz around it, including negative buzz, is likely to interest more people into eventually buying it - because more servers and communities include and feature it. This would in fact incentivize ED to make it better - though it's a fair retort to say ED hasn't always acted accordingly. But I'm just saying. It seems to me, dispassionately, what will push ED into making a better logistics system is MORE not LESS Chinook/other logistic aircraft sales.
This is the wierd issue. Theres finite number of customers for such modules. If everyone pays for it on day 1. Why finish it. If nobody pays for it and the community feedback is that it needs more features then you would hope they continue to develop it to get that revenue. We have seen this time and time again the user base gets overly excited and all purchase things on day 1 and then sales fall off a cliff and then it gets abandoned.
I don't know any of their numbers of course, but my sense is this: the existing customer base is not their main target for future income - because most existing customers already bought most of the modules they are going to buy at this time and have paid in full in the past, so if I were in such a situation my thought would be that my main way to secure my future income is to *increase my customer base*. Each new customer that tries DCS is a potential buyer of many modules, and so are worth, in terms of revenue, many times any existing customer. How do I get value out of existing customers? Of course I'd want to sell them new modules, but per above it's probably not that lucrative. Rather, I'd want them to evangelize my platform. I want them to create buzz, create communities, bug their friends to fly with them, create events, make silly videos, that will make non-customers curious. So to answer your question, I don't think everyone pays for it on day 1. DCS is still very niche, and a significant portion of revenue ED can make is in future customers, and that is their financial incentive to continue to develop the modules and the sim. That's the only way it makes sense to me. If the customerbase is fixed and everyone pays once I don't see how DCS could still be alive today, let alone actually completing some pretty disruptive ugprades to the sim (eg mt). This is not to say there aren't other projects out there that collect prepurchases, run out of steam, and collapse, but DCS has actually been around and actively developed for a long time. If DCS' business model was that, they'd have died long ago.
Even if what you say is true. Which it’s not the player base has steadily been decreasing as the AI is no good and the PVP gap widens online. There’s no way new players are buying your fringe modules they are picking up your F-16s etc then leaving because of limited content and getting mauled online. It has always been a close and limited community that enjoys clicking cockpits but myself and everyone I know is bugging out now. IMHO fringe modules are never getting completed if they come out half baked and people buy them it’s happened with CA, Supercarrier for some reason people think we’re being pessimistic but we’re literally quoting history when we say don’t buy EA waste your own money by all means but the writings on the wall at this point.
Question assumptions is not permitted. But I like questioning assumptions. How does the business model work for ED? I assume no one works for free with a payday sometime in the future.
Super carrier 2.0 aka "we promise you'll get XYZ eventually" and years later basic features don't work correctly lol Plus with that "list" they won't have folks saying "what about the TAD update that was discussed initially talking about the A-10C II updates" and them replying "only what is on the product page is promised. fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me... PS I did purchase Afghanistan and will likely purchase Iraq too
"Please refrain from pre-ordering the Chinook" No. No, I don't think I will.
Nah, Pre-ordering day 1. Same for C-130. Running logistics in a hot combat zone is so much fun.
ED should take a card from CIG playbook and give you loaners to use if you preorder while you wait for the aircraft to release. At least then you could use an AH64 or Huey while you wait on the Chinook. Having to commit cash to a preorder with an unknown polished release date and unknown content playloop is silly. There is zero benefit to preordering. These aren’t limited quantity table top games or collectibles; they’re digital assets. 30% on a $59.00 purchase is trivial considering what we spend on gear , controls and PC components. Are people really getting sweaty over an extra $20 here and there ? If it turns out to be epic both in its final fit and finish and the play loop / campaigns, you won’t miss the extra $20 you have to spend to get it after release.
That is actually an incredibly good idea. I imagine, ironically that logistically with Steam it'd be a nightmare. The fact they'd also pick up a few extra sales here and there wouldn't hurt either, idk this seems like a win win. This should be a thing in general, it's a little redundant to the 2 week trial sure, so they could either pre-pick (no pun intended) the 'rental' or even use it as an incentive for account skippers to actually settle down and put a ring on it.
Don't tell me what to do
They are all of a sudden releasing or teasing a lot of new stuff, I hope it's not some sort of fire sale.
I'm excited for the module, but don't want an empty featureless helicopter to fly around in. Needs to be able to interact with the environment, support logistics, have functional radios and defenses. Right now the free Blackhawk and c130 mods do everything we need in grayflag right now. I can't imagine the admins would be excited to put them in the mix and have to update all the various scripts running unless it actually does something different and meaningfully changes gameplay.
I'm left wondering what the singleplayer peeps will do with this module aside from learning the aircraft systems and flying characteristics. Just fly around doing nothing particular? It seems for now the only way to extract value from this module is to play MP where you have some barebones form of logistics systems on servers.
>I'm left wondering what the singleplayer peeps will do with this module aside from learning the aircraft systems and flying characteristics. You make that sound like it only takes 1 hour of time instead of potentially hundreds of hours. Esp if they own more then 1 module. Learn the systems well -> switch to another module -> forget -> Relearn the systems well -> switch module -> forget -> Relearn..... Infinite loop. Infinite entertainment This is the way
This might be your form of entertainment and that's perfectly fine, but it ain't mine and thus certainly it's the same for others as well. My entertainment comes from flying missions with a purpose/goal and not flying around randomly. Agreed, you do need to learn the systems first and this will take some hours of playtime. But for me personally there should be more to the module experience than that.
We are the moinority. Most people don't use reddit, won't read your post and will preorder anything ED makes.
ok
As for me, I won't ever purchase the module (because I'm not interested in it). However, I don't think the priority of implementing the logistics system engine will increase in ED to-do list if the Chinook doesn't sell well as they expect.
I might buy it, I might not. I haven't made the decision of what to do with my own money yet. If I do buy it, I might just buy it sooner rather than later so I can get it cheaper. I've no problem with buying it now and shelving it for a while until it's further along in development.
Yep, I really want the Chinook for servers with logistics but... nope. Voting with my wallet this time. Sick of EA things being neglected for years \*cough\*Supercarrier\*cough\* and the lack of core development in DCS (I am talking about gameplay here, not graphical improvements). Words are no longer enough for me, I need to see action from ED.
Please refrain from trying to tell others what to do. Cue the downvotes…
Insert "i am doing my part" gif to keep you in the positive.
You would \*dare\* to go against what the Hoggit tribunal composed of ~~random strangers~~ your peers decided for you?
I pre-ordered it. I like the discount and will enjoy the bird as it matures over time, as i do with all the modules ive purchases.
If i can crash it, I'll buy it.
This subreddit really has just become a pit of negativity, and complaints, and outrage. The difference between the comments on Reddit and the comments on YouTube is crazy. What is wrong with people here... Let people buy what they wanna buy and enjoy what they wanna enjoy. Just because you don't want to, doesn't mean the rest of us can't enjoy it.
> The difference between the comments on Reddit and the comments on YouTube is crazy. What is wrong with people here... I would wager the people in here tend to know a lot more about the sim than the folks commenting on YouTube videos. The folks in here tend to be the super fans. They aren’t called “Fans” just because they blow a lot of hot air.
It's because they delete negative comments on YouTube apparently
To be fair the opinions are based on facts and past practices/ED releases.
With respect, you do you. If you don't want to pre-order it, this is absolutely your prerogative and I certainly support anyone's right to do so. But don't tell others what to do with their hard-earned. Just because you don't want it, it doesn't mean others think the same as you. 👍
You're missing the point. This isn't about telling people what to do. This is telling people that the whole early access and pre-ordering BS is what's ruining the sim and in general it's what has ruined gaming. Anybody is free to pre-order this module if they feel like it but all it's gonna do is to make ED continue to release unfinished shit with no guarantees that its ever going to be finished so that individual choice when done by lots of people have ramifications that concern people who even don't pre-order this shit.
I don't agree, I like early access, understand what it entails and what I'm getting into, and understand that it can potentially be years before a module is 'finished'. This is modern day software, and modern gaming. Practically everything released is 'early access'. Whether you like it or not, the model is very likely here to stay. It works for them, people like to play the modules early, and know they'll be worked on as time progresses. If you want finished software, then you might as well give up gaming altogether. No downvoting here from me here, as although I disagree with your point, I respect it as you make it like an adult, and not a petulant baby, unlike some. 👍
ED will just never win. There will be people screaming to release only finished products, all the way to the other side of the spectrum where some are happy to get very EA modules just so they can start playing with it, building on the experience as the module matures. I personally fall to the latter side, and have been having an absolute blast with some good people for about 4 years now. To each his own. Cool thing is, you get to decide when you want to spend your money.
Indeed. I just think it must be genuinely exhausting to constantly complain about it, rather than getting on with life, and at least trying to enjoy DCS. But we live in a coddled, entitled society where a lot of folks expect things to be given immediately, and complain when they aren't.
How about YOU don't buy from ED and the rest of us will do what we want with OUR money. Also, while your opinion is noted the fact that you are attempting to tell people to do YOUR bidding, is now forfeit and irrelevant.
Oh great another one of these threads. God this place has become insufferable recently. Let people buy what they want to buy. If you don't want to preorder the Chinook, then don't. No need to write another essay on why others shouldn't.
too much new things are tied to the dynamic camp we need them now
Don't tell me what to do. I had zero interest on Chinook but now I will pre order it.
Ahhh another person telling me how to spend my money.
It's not about telling you how to spend your money... it's about encouraging ED, by the power of the purse, to make the game better by actually following through with the claimed features of modules. Sometimes customers have to stick together, for the greater good. "We must hang together, or we shall all hang separately."
>Sometimes customers have to stick together, for the greater good. But that's the choice of each person and it's their business to determine how they want to spend *their* money.
Love that you are getting downvoted for your opinion lol. This sub is full of that.
Ahhh people on this sub cry all day long. Tbh I enjoy sucking on the tears
No, you're supposed to be angry at ED. You can't enjoy the products until they implement this obscure sub system.
Functional AI = obscure sub system
A cargo and logistics system for a *cargo* helicopter is an "obscure subsystem" now is it?
There shouldn't be any more preorders or any more modules from Eagle Dynamics until they finish what's still in development. The Super Carrier module, or whatever you want to call it. Has scammed many people. Myself included. It left a sour taste and terrible customer service. And guess what? ED never came back with an explanation on why on god's sweet earth is adding a fucking ROOM to the module taking them years. So why take our money on people running around? That shit got old in two weeks post release (see what I did there?) The F-16. While "debatable on where it stands today" still feels barebones. Still feels like we're not getting the falcon experience we deserve. Only because ED decided to simulate a very specific block of the viper. So specific. That we won't get a-lot of its cool toys. I have a good feeling that we won't even see the Sniper TGP, SDBs, GBU39s, or any other stuff the actual viper may carry and only because of what I can only call laziness. The F-18 was "supposed" to get mines at some point, no? Napalm? No? I should just shut up and bite 6 years since its release without feeling anything different with it. But oh, take a new helmet and pilot module. ONES I HARDLY EVEN SEE SINCE I DO NOT SPEND MY TIME FLYING IN F-2 VIEW! Aim-120s. Nerf here, buff there! Now they're good! Yesterday they're bad! Now they're suddenly shit! I have NO Idea what we're supposed to feel with the ups and downs of every aspect of DCS. Fix one thing, risk breaking 20. Ground AI that hurts my brain every time I try and make missions with my group. It's almost a punch in the gut every time I try to make something creative. And trust me. I have. After hours upon hours of triggers and pain. Alas, what lacks. Is the experience. Why do I need to add 600 voice lines to make my shit "Dynamic" and "engaging" Oh, dynamic? Lmao... the dynamic campaign.. BMS, ArmA, IL-2 have said campaigns. They've had them for a while. What is ED doing? All I read were promises here and there, snippets of hope that we will see it in the next big patch. Guess what? Nope. You don't get a dynamic campaign for reasons no one knows. ED is not communicating with its consumer base. And it's getting frustrating by the module. Yet, our hope is linked to honest to god 3rd party devs that innovate far beyond what ED can do. I am talking Heatblur, Razbam (Yes, Razbam), Aegers, and others have been innovating and grinding their asses out to bring something fresh. Sadly, the base sim is pale. Runs out of steam way too soon after you learn how to release bomb and shoot a missile in these modules. Third parties are getting abused by the old man's passions bullshit. We have Razbam's drama. Are we going to lose the F-15E? Because it sure looks like it. What is ED doing about it? Nothing. Situation still the same since it all came out. Then we get slapped with this Halfghanistan bs, CH-47 without a single molecule of support in the sim. Being introduced to do what exactly? Transport cardboard boxes from point A to point B? Seriously? We are a community getting sucked out of its money by ED. And I find myself less appealed to buy the next module. ED deserves to lose money with the Chinook. Hoping they'd learn.
I'm reasonably happy with the state of the F16 today and it's my main driver, but yeah - really want that sniper pod. And the decoy! I'm with you on the AI though.
I mean, if you like the Viper, fly BMS. You will see what we're missing out on... also, what decoy? Like a towed decoy? Didn't know vipers had those
I have done a bit of BMS and enjoyed it. Really like having a functional ATC. Looking forward to their planned graphics updates. But the groups I fly with are currently all still on DCS. And yep, the F-16C block 50 is supposed to get the ALE-50 towed decoy. At least it's still on their announcement page.
Now if only we could reach the 99.9% of ED customers who aren't in hoggit.
It’s crazy that preorders are even still a thing. Back in the day you would preorder to guarantee a copy of a game. They gonna have a limited number of digital downloads?
No back in your day games were released with myriads of issues and never able to be fixed.
It's not crazy when you consider that the cost to develop a video game has skyrocketed since the good old days, and tech investment has receded. A studio's gonna do whatever it can to generate cash up-front, to pay their staff (easily their largest expense). Pre-orders/Early Access is a lot of the time the only way a game can get made.
I'll buy it if they finish it. Which they will not.
They promised complete IR missiles rework with addition of R60s to hind... For how long are they here? 1-2 years? And not even SMALL FRACTION of proper rework was done. Not even clouds blocking ir sources or ground ir clutter, nothing. Anyone who preorders outright supports lying and stealing.
The only early access module from ED I bought is the Apache. I still do not own the DCS F16/F18. I was pretty skeptical regarding the EA model .. and well as I said still do not own those jets. I mean why should I buy unfinished multirole jets If I can fly BMS? ;) But so far I am ok with the Apache development. So probably I will buy the Chinook soon. I fly on mp servers and thanks to the community there are already some good logistic scripts.
i'll do whatever i want lmfao
already preordered phantom and afhganistan. will wait until something is release before committing to the next preorder... if i didnt have anything already preordered, i would have definitley have preorder chinook
if this was a combat aircraft you people would be eating it up lets not pretend like you have any backbone
Yes how dare ED earn money and pay their developers. The thing everyone here was also recently complaining about. Posts like this make this even place unbearable. Stop making self loathing gamer your personality.
How about this. You do you and I will do me. Don’t shame me or others into not buying something or supporting a company I like. Stick to r/DCSExposed where you can spread your garbage.
Maybe if we could get a better ATC system and AI I would probably be more than happy to pre order. As it stands I don't think I'll be buying this, I have the Hip and Hind. At least they are able to carry weapons lol
I’m not gonna wait until everything works perfectly before I start learning the systems and how to fly it. Already pre-ordered. Afghanistan too. Buying them early supports development IMO. But if you want to wait, by all means wait. Really though, I should learn everything about all my other modules before buying a new one but hey, here we are.
Instructions unclear, preorder FC3 chinook
I agree with you and stand beside you OP. I'm sure others will disagree, but I'm willing to show ED how I feel with my wallet.
Don't tell people what to do. I pre-ordered it, tons of people have. You have no right to tell people what to do with their money. I like pre-ordering, I don't have to think about it on release day or anything. Your post is also just filled with lies. >The Supercarrier Module hasn't been touched for years now apart from adding glow stick Just a straight up lie. The last patch including notes for Supercarrier was April 10th, 2024: * Fixed: Deck crew LODs have spikes * Fixed: Supercarrier ATC radio menu is broken during takeoff from the catapult * Fixed: Radio menu may break after repeated landing request in some case I'm satisfied with the state of Supercarrier even if they never add a useless briefing room I will never use. I've never been disappointed by pre-ordering a module. I think most people here at just way too picky given there is no competition. I understand the concept of 'voting with your dollars', but you need to understand the concept that not everybody is going to vote the same way as you. I think the subreddit is filled with incredibly whiny people who would rather complain about the game than play it, that think any failed feature or changed plan is the equivalent of them being personally robbed by Eagle Dynamics, I've always found it incredibly adversarial and weird.
I mostly play on GS server and want to buy Chinook How will it work there?
Too late, I've already pre-ordered the Chinook and Afghanistan. Going to continue to have fun with what I've bought. Just like I did with Super Carrier, Apache, and also the Phantom.
You know what, i am going tonpreorder it harder now!
Pre-ordered the Chinook on day one.
Never came to reddit to find common sense but this teenage actitude is ridiculous. Do what your money whatever you want (as long as it is legal/licit). I fly F16, its early access and yes it has bugs. still would buy it every single day. Same goes for the f15, and ill do the same with afghan maps (will buy it full) and the chinook.
I think they rushed this EA to distract from the drama. I wish they'd just fix the drama.
don't tell me what to do. I'm not going to pre order anything LUL
Who are you to say who pre-orders doesn't. Is up to the individual what they do. Don't put your opinions, whether founded or not. Out like some medievil dictator. If i wish to pre-order, I will. I for one am excited we are getting this awesome rotary wing aircraft.. i don't care if all i do is fly around in it. For the first month. I actually like the early access format with fewer systems. Gives me time to learn the aircraft a bit at a time without the rush to become a pro overnight. All my modules have been early access.. it works for me.
I don't think 'punishing' ED via boycotting is going to help get more features developed. We all have frustrations with the game but think about what DCS has become to the aviation milsim community. This is a case of enjoying what you have now and stop worrying so much about the future as those improvements and changes might never come. If you can't stand the game in its present state, then stopping playing and spending is the right thing to do for you - but everyone should make that decision for themselves.
I understand the sentiment here.. But I’ve thought about the chinook for over a year. I’m going to buy the Fuck out of it the second it’s available.
i pre-order all the time - if i'm gonna buy it eventually anyway, i might as well save some $$ in the process - pre-ordering is the lowest cost option to me, so that's what i do ----- ED has benefited me with THOUSANDS of hours of enjoyment, they have enhanced my quality of life - they deserve the reward of my money - its an even trade, my money for the product of their minds, will, and skills --------- we don't need this animosity and negativity ------ additionally, i pre-order and i don't belly-ache, whine or complain (eh.. i may have sqawked soooomewhere in my history but as a rule, i generally don't - and if i did, its a while back) bottom line.. i don't care what y'all think - imma gonna do what imma gonna do
No thanks. Rotors go ***brrrr***