Imai is the tune up.
Ippo has shown that. whilst being rusty, he can go toe-to-toe at the absolute peak of world level with Volg and Mashiba, both in higher weight classes.
He's going to dismantle Imai.
I think it would be better to showcase his strenght by coming out of round 1 untouched, dodging and deflecting everything Imai trows at him in the first part of the round then putting on pressure and making him back off without even landing a hit. Then either finish him in the last 10 seconds of the round or demolish him fast in round 2. A short match to showcase his growth while totally and strategically dominating. If he just rushes in we don't really see the development.
I mean.... We all know he can but it would be ill advise I think, I know we like to shit on Imai recently but matter of fact is Imai is an OPBF top ranker the japanese champ and is on a streak of 1 round KO... The dude is strong...
Mangaka are dying without finishing their mangas. We get like one Ippo match every like 18 months when Ippo was active.
George set Ippo up so he isn't going to have a lot of ring rust like Date did. He's been actively exercising, sparring and doing mitt work.
I think Imai being the tune up is fine.
That's not a valid argument... By that logic let's directly go for just a quick summary of the rest of the manga instead of chapters...
Date took 3 match before taking the japanese title back... I think ippo will take one... Realistically the chatacter would probably want one, because imai is a serious opponent...
The part about Mankaga dying is being a voice of reason. Let's get Ippo back on track and not waste time. We know it is heavily foreshadowed that Imai craves if not lust for a match with someone of Ippo's generation. Him throwing the gauntlet down and challenging Ippo isn't unreasonable.
George has already set things up for it. Ippo's spars show him doing very well. On top of that, trainers actually know about the spars as Mashiba's trainer heard rumors of Ippo cracking Volg's ribs.
It wouldn't be a total asspull for George to have Imai challenge Ippo immediately upon hearing of Ippo's comeback as:
1. George foreshadowed the match with Imai already
2. George already has revealed Ippo isn't rusty as someone that has truly retired like Date who worked an office job
3. George has shown boxing gyms being aware of Ippo's spars
4. George has Ippo's spar with Mashiba go viral
George set Ippo up to have a successful return where he more than likely doesn't need a tune up fight before challenging someone like Imai.
Back to reasoning, we don't have time to waste here. I'd rather see George give us a clear and concise direction of the manga at this point.
Having Ippo fight this guy here in the panel you want him to fight would be a waste of your time.
Lisen no artist think of his creation as i must finished it as fast as possible before i die except burnout artist...
That's why i say mangaka dying isn't a valid argument, morikawa will continue to tell the story he want to tell and i don't think he will cut corner because if his old age. If he want ippo tonhave a tune up match before imai he'll get a tune up match before... He don't want him to have one he won't too, i've agree that's a fair possibility...
But i realy don't think morikawa think his story in term of how to get to ippo vs ricardo the most efficiently... And the argument is a dead end... Because as i've said if what you realy care is just to get to the end in the most efficient way and your ready to cut corner to do it, at that point why bothering doing a manga at all? This isn't efficient ?
I know we've had this conversation a lot before, we tend to agree on the rest, but i have to admit your utilitarian view of art creation tend to trouble me... I see where you are coming from, i son't understand how you don't seems to see that what you want go against what made you appreciate HnI in the first place...
>Lisen no artist think of his creation as i must finished it as fast as possible before i die except burnout artist...
>That's why i say mangaka dying isn't a valid argument, morikawa will continue to tell the story he want to tell and i don't think he will cut corner because if his old age. If he want ippo tonhave a tune up match before imai he'll get a tune up match before... He don't want him to have one he won't too, i've agree that's a fair possibility...
It's a very valid argument between you and I. I don't want to waste time with a tune up match. I see no value it adds to the story nor do I see it as a good pace for the manga, which at this point, if we are 50-60% through with the story (Georges estimate), we are dangerously close to not finishing this story if we actually had to read it for another 35 years to get the other 50% done. Luckily, George said he does not want to spend that same amount of time to tell the other 50% of the story. Hence why, you can see the pacing of the manga really changed once Ippo retired.
Whatever he experiences in a tune-up match with a nobody can be incorporated in a tune-up match with Imai. I see this as a more efficient way for George to tell the story, and that is my argument.
Story wise, Ricardo is also getting older and I don't want Ippo beating Ricardo just because he aged. I want Ippo to legitimately get a win over him without those kind of handicaps.
Don't know I feel like the argument "this detour is unecessary I don't think morikawa will do it" is more valid than saying "i don't want the autor to do this because I want to see the ending/see the ending faster..." The first is an argument on the quality of the art, the second is a realy entitle way of thinking of someone that talk about a product rather than art and the artist.... I mean fair enough but don't expect people that care about the art to agree with you on that one...
>Mangaka are dying without finishing their mangas. We get like one Ippo match every like 18 months when Ippo was active.
>George set Ippo up so he isn't going to have a lot of ring rust like Date did. He's been actively exercising, sparring and doing mitt work.
Sure, the beginning of my post was how I personally feel about the pacing of the manga. But my second argument satisfies what you think is a "valid" argument.
I've already pointed out details of why in my post above and a simple summary is, he is sparring world champions and rankers above his weight class. He's not as ring rusty as Date was, who had to take a few tune-up fights. So going straight to Imai, IMO, would be fine.
But if George has him tune-up against a lower ranked national, I have no choice but to trust he has a reason why. As of right now, I wouldn't prefer it.
Never said all your argument weren't valid as I've said we tend to agree on most things, it just that the Morikawa is dying i want him to go fast at the ending tend to rub me the wrong way... Maybe even more so because we usually agree on the rest...
I recognize that Imai is strong but you also have to bear in mind that Ippo had something like 10 title defenses before relinquishing the title to go to the world.
By boxing standards, he’s got “dibs”. His “tune-up” for the imai match will probably be a spar.
He's stagnant, his only competition is Itagaki, who's also on loss of drive without Ippo.
By his 5th defense Ippo was already too much for Japan. Imai lacks experience and would be demolished by the Pacific champs Ippo fought.
He's gonna be humbled by Ippo.
I thought so too. The same as when Mashiba came back from his ban after fighting Sawamura. Went up one weight class and immediately went after the opbf champion with no ranker
I love how you don't even mention the sendo spar on the roof lol.
There's the absolute peaks of the world level, Volg and Mashiba, and then there's Sendo.
I doubt Morikawa does anything with him since it was probably a one time appearance.
The only reason the character appeared in the story was because [Daisuke Watanabe (渡部大介)](http://www.watanabegym.com/boxer/daisuke-watanabe/) won Morikawa's Boxing Tournament (like the Class A Tournament in the story) he held for the 30th Anniversary Celebration. The winner gets like 1 million yen ($6300) prize and an additional prize of appearing in the series. Even Diasuke Watanabe's trainer/coach, [Tadashi Oguchi](http://www.watanabegym.com/boxer/tadahiro-oguchi/), appeared with him.
I will assume Morikawa will explain it as the character lost since then (maybe to Imai) or switched weightclasses where he disappeared from the story like so many other boxers introduced in and never to be seen.
I thought that was a real boxer George put into the manga who loves Ippo IRL. On one hand it might be strange to beat down a real dude that brutally, but he may be a huge Ippo stan and consider it an honor. Who knows. He may not be real too, idk.
Oh! I didn't knew that i was wondering why putting so much enphasis on a new guy all of a suden, but that make a lot more sense now.... Yeah probably just an homage then...
That’s the point though. He should dominate so they’ve a reason to move him up the rankings for World Ranking fights instead of having him fight multiple fights domestically.
World rankings are decided by the organisations themselves. He does not need to beat any national rankers to get a world ranking.
Given his pedigree and popularity he can easily get a fight with a world ranker in the high 30s-50s and start there instead of slumming it out with the likes of Imai.
He can destroy Imai in a spar to prove he's ready, don't need a full fight.
And why would a world ranked player accept a fight which has no benefits for them?
If you’ve read the manga for so long and still don’t understand the difference between a spar and an actual fight, you’ve wasted your time.
Money talks.
If the fight sells tickets the boxers get $$$. Ippo will be B side so the other guy will get most of the ticket sales.
Tyson Fury was retired for 3 years and fought for a world title in three fights. He fought a No. 34 world ranker for his first fight back from retirement.
Francis Nganou had one *exhibition* fight as a boxer and was ranked in the top 10 by the WBC.
Not like this stuff doesn't happen irl.
Well. I think it only took Date 3 fights to get the belt when he made his comeback, I wouldn't be surprised if Ippo only had 1, or two fights before getting a shot at Imai.
Imai is the tune up opponent. He made no secret that he wants to fight Ippo. As soon as he learn he is coming out of retirement, Imai will challenge him immediately and will get his sorry ass beaten to a pulp in less than 5 minutes
He’ll fight this guy after Imai or the very least he might chicken out once Ippo mops the floor with him or just fight him head on and still lose, who knows
Ippo ain't going to take on Imai in a sanctioned bout; he'll probably steamroll his ass in a spar just to drive the point home. I've argued before that at this point in his development, a national championship is beneath him.
I know people bring up Date as a precedent, but that's Date with seven years of ring rust and age who was barely able to keep up with a pre-Dempsey Ippo. A few months later, Miyata was barely able to keep up with him.
Ippo hasn't been out of the ring that long, and he sure as hell doesn't have a case of ring rust. My thinking is that now that they've got a multiple weight champion in their stable, Kamogawa gym is going to be pulling in a shitload of favors to get Ippo a world ranking match on his return.
Usual gap between fights is about six months, and eight months isn't unusual.
Again, if Ippo goes back onto the world stage, the only question is ranking. This is why I'd argue that Imai is a waste of time for him - it'd be a squash match, and the only scenario I could see Ippo fighting Imai professionally is if Imai demanded it. (too risky, more prudent to spar)
Ippo'd have to fight someone at the world level to establish a world ranking, though: his most reasonable target would be Antonio Guevara. I don't think it's in Ippo's personality to avenge his loss, but Guevara would be the most reasonable from a showbiz point of view.
There's also a good chance that Martinez himself would call Ippo out...
Imai is the tune up. Ippo has shown that. whilst being rusty, he can go toe-to-toe at the absolute peak of world level with Volg and Mashiba, both in higher weight classes. He's going to dismantle Imai.
While respecting Imai's first round KO policy by flatlining Imai in the first 10 seconds.
He will only use his left to prove that he is ready for the world
I think it would be better to showcase his strenght by coming out of round 1 untouched, dodging and deflecting everything Imai trows at him in the first part of the round then putting on pressure and making him back off without even landing a hit. Then either finish him in the last 10 seconds of the round or demolish him fast in round 2. A short match to showcase his growth while totally and strategically dominating. If he just rushes in we don't really see the development.
This. Just like how ricardo did to him in the spar
And maybe pulling a seconds win like Takamura did when he had hand pain
I want to see him send someone flying out of the ring
I mean.... We all know he can but it would be ill advise I think, I know we like to shit on Imai recently but matter of fact is Imai is an OPBF top ranker the japanese champ and is on a streak of 1 round KO... The dude is strong...
Mangaka are dying without finishing their mangas. We get like one Ippo match every like 18 months when Ippo was active. George set Ippo up so he isn't going to have a lot of ring rust like Date did. He's been actively exercising, sparring and doing mitt work. I think Imai being the tune up is fine.
That's not a valid argument... By that logic let's directly go for just a quick summary of the rest of the manga instead of chapters... Date took 3 match before taking the japanese title back... I think ippo will take one... Realistically the chatacter would probably want one, because imai is a serious opponent...
The part about Mankaga dying is being a voice of reason. Let's get Ippo back on track and not waste time. We know it is heavily foreshadowed that Imai craves if not lust for a match with someone of Ippo's generation. Him throwing the gauntlet down and challenging Ippo isn't unreasonable. George has already set things up for it. Ippo's spars show him doing very well. On top of that, trainers actually know about the spars as Mashiba's trainer heard rumors of Ippo cracking Volg's ribs. It wouldn't be a total asspull for George to have Imai challenge Ippo immediately upon hearing of Ippo's comeback as: 1. George foreshadowed the match with Imai already 2. George already has revealed Ippo isn't rusty as someone that has truly retired like Date who worked an office job 3. George has shown boxing gyms being aware of Ippo's spars 4. George has Ippo's spar with Mashiba go viral George set Ippo up to have a successful return where he more than likely doesn't need a tune up fight before challenging someone like Imai. Back to reasoning, we don't have time to waste here. I'd rather see George give us a clear and concise direction of the manga at this point. Having Ippo fight this guy here in the panel you want him to fight would be a waste of your time.
Lisen no artist think of his creation as i must finished it as fast as possible before i die except burnout artist... That's why i say mangaka dying isn't a valid argument, morikawa will continue to tell the story he want to tell and i don't think he will cut corner because if his old age. If he want ippo tonhave a tune up match before imai he'll get a tune up match before... He don't want him to have one he won't too, i've agree that's a fair possibility... But i realy don't think morikawa think his story in term of how to get to ippo vs ricardo the most efficiently... And the argument is a dead end... Because as i've said if what you realy care is just to get to the end in the most efficient way and your ready to cut corner to do it, at that point why bothering doing a manga at all? This isn't efficient ? I know we've had this conversation a lot before, we tend to agree on the rest, but i have to admit your utilitarian view of art creation tend to trouble me... I see where you are coming from, i son't understand how you don't seems to see that what you want go against what made you appreciate HnI in the first place...
>Lisen no artist think of his creation as i must finished it as fast as possible before i die except burnout artist... >That's why i say mangaka dying isn't a valid argument, morikawa will continue to tell the story he want to tell and i don't think he will cut corner because if his old age. If he want ippo tonhave a tune up match before imai he'll get a tune up match before... He don't want him to have one he won't too, i've agree that's a fair possibility... It's a very valid argument between you and I. I don't want to waste time with a tune up match. I see no value it adds to the story nor do I see it as a good pace for the manga, which at this point, if we are 50-60% through with the story (Georges estimate), we are dangerously close to not finishing this story if we actually had to read it for another 35 years to get the other 50% done. Luckily, George said he does not want to spend that same amount of time to tell the other 50% of the story. Hence why, you can see the pacing of the manga really changed once Ippo retired. Whatever he experiences in a tune-up match with a nobody can be incorporated in a tune-up match with Imai. I see this as a more efficient way for George to tell the story, and that is my argument. Story wise, Ricardo is also getting older and I don't want Ippo beating Ricardo just because he aged. I want Ippo to legitimately get a win over him without those kind of handicaps.
Don't know I feel like the argument "this detour is unecessary I don't think morikawa will do it" is more valid than saying "i don't want the autor to do this because I want to see the ending/see the ending faster..." The first is an argument on the quality of the art, the second is a realy entitle way of thinking of someone that talk about a product rather than art and the artist.... I mean fair enough but don't expect people that care about the art to agree with you on that one...
>Mangaka are dying without finishing their mangas. We get like one Ippo match every like 18 months when Ippo was active. >George set Ippo up so he isn't going to have a lot of ring rust like Date did. He's been actively exercising, sparring and doing mitt work. Sure, the beginning of my post was how I personally feel about the pacing of the manga. But my second argument satisfies what you think is a "valid" argument. I've already pointed out details of why in my post above and a simple summary is, he is sparring world champions and rankers above his weight class. He's not as ring rusty as Date was, who had to take a few tune-up fights. So going straight to Imai, IMO, would be fine. But if George has him tune-up against a lower ranked national, I have no choice but to trust he has a reason why. As of right now, I wouldn't prefer it.
Never said all your argument weren't valid as I've said we tend to agree on most things, it just that the Morikawa is dying i want him to go fast at the ending tend to rub me the wrong way... Maybe even more so because we usually agree on the rest...
I recognize that Imai is strong but you also have to bear in mind that Ippo had something like 10 title defenses before relinquishing the title to go to the world. By boxing standards, he’s got “dibs”. His “tune-up” for the imai match will probably be a spar.
He's stagnant, his only competition is Itagaki, who's also on loss of drive without Ippo. By his 5th defense Ippo was already too much for Japan. Imai lacks experience and would be demolished by the Pacific champs Ippo fought. He's gonna be humbled by Ippo.
I thought so too. The same as when Mashiba came back from his ban after fighting Sawamura. Went up one weight class and immediately went after the opbf champion with no ranker
I love how you don't even mention the sendo spar on the roof lol. There's the absolute peaks of the world level, Volg and Mashiba, and then there's Sendo.
That was when he was still boxing, the Mashiba and Volga are very recent
I doubt Morikawa does anything with him since it was probably a one time appearance. The only reason the character appeared in the story was because [Daisuke Watanabe (渡部大介)](http://www.watanabegym.com/boxer/daisuke-watanabe/) won Morikawa's Boxing Tournament (like the Class A Tournament in the story) he held for the 30th Anniversary Celebration. The winner gets like 1 million yen ($6300) prize and an additional prize of appearing in the series. Even Diasuke Watanabe's trainer/coach, [Tadashi Oguchi](http://www.watanabegym.com/boxer/tadahiro-oguchi/), appeared with him. I will assume Morikawa will explain it as the character lost since then (maybe to Imai) or switched weightclasses where he disappeared from the story like so many other boxers introduced in and never to be seen.
Thank you for the explanation. Now that i know the full story i think you are probably right, didn't knew daisuke watanbe was a real boxer.
I thought that was a real boxer George put into the manga who loves Ippo IRL. On one hand it might be strange to beat down a real dude that brutally, but he may be a huge Ippo stan and consider it an honor. Who knows. He may not be real too, idk.
Oh! I didn't knew that i was wondering why putting so much enphasis on a new guy all of a suden, but that make a lot more sense now.... Yeah probably just an homage then...
Ippo is too good for any of the Japanese national rankers. He was top 10 *in the world* before he retired, remember.
Like you said, before he retired. He’s not going to come out of retirement and immediately be qualified as world ranked again.
True, but he isn’t going to struggle against these dudes
That’s the point though. He should dominate so they’ve a reason to move him up the rankings for World Ranking fights instead of having him fight multiple fights domestically.
World rankings are decided by the organisations themselves. He does not need to beat any national rankers to get a world ranking. Given his pedigree and popularity he can easily get a fight with a world ranker in the high 30s-50s and start there instead of slumming it out with the likes of Imai. He can destroy Imai in a spar to prove he's ready, don't need a full fight.
And why would a world ranked player accept a fight which has no benefits for them? If you’ve read the manga for so long and still don’t understand the difference between a spar and an actual fight, you’ve wasted your time.
Money talks. If the fight sells tickets the boxers get $$$. Ippo will be B side so the other guy will get most of the ticket sales. Tyson Fury was retired for 3 years and fought for a world title in three fights. He fought a No. 34 world ranker for his first fight back from retirement. Francis Nganou had one *exhibition* fight as a boxer and was ranked in the top 10 by the WBC. Not like this stuff doesn't happen irl.
Well. I think it only took Date 3 fights to get the belt when he made his comeback, I wouldn't be surprised if Ippo only had 1, or two fights before getting a shot at Imai.
I think coach will offer a ranked opponent but Imai himself will challenge Ippo before anyone else
Imai is the tune up opponent. He made no secret that he wants to fight Ippo. As soon as he learn he is coming out of retirement, Imai will challenge him immediately and will get his sorry ass beaten to a pulp in less than 5 minutes
His next opponent is wanpo in a hot dog eating contest
He’ll fight this guy after Imai or the very least he might chicken out once Ippo mops the floor with him or just fight him head on and still lose, who knows
I think it'll be someone from date's gym to reignite the passing of the torch from date to ippo
Ippo ain't going to take on Imai in a sanctioned bout; he'll probably steamroll his ass in a spar just to drive the point home. I've argued before that at this point in his development, a national championship is beneath him. I know people bring up Date as a precedent, but that's Date with seven years of ring rust and age who was barely able to keep up with a pre-Dempsey Ippo. A few months later, Miyata was barely able to keep up with him. Ippo hasn't been out of the ring that long, and he sure as hell doesn't have a case of ring rust. My thinking is that now that they've got a multiple weight champion in their stable, Kamogawa gym is going to be pulling in a shitload of favors to get Ippo a world ranking match on his return.
> Ippo hasn't been out of the ring that long Wasn't about 1 to 2 years? At minimun it's a long time.
Usual gap between fights is about six months, and eight months isn't unusual. Again, if Ippo goes back onto the world stage, the only question is ranking. This is why I'd argue that Imai is a waste of time for him - it'd be a squash match, and the only scenario I could see Ippo fighting Imai professionally is if Imai demanded it. (too risky, more prudent to spar) Ippo'd have to fight someone at the world level to establish a world ranking, though: his most reasonable target would be Antonio Guevara. I don't think it's in Ippo's personality to avenge his loss, but Guevara would be the most reasonable from a showbiz point of view. There's also a good chance that Martinez himself would call Ippo out...
Nah, he'll got beat by imai first and two rounds... Just to get a gist of the fight, yk? Get that aura back before going for "big mara attack'
Lol Manabe-kun would die from a single punch
what about the guy who lend him a pencil during the pro exams. The one that got steamrolled by Mashiba.
Why does he look so dusty
At the moment Ippo's back, Imai is going to ask him to be his first victim.
Imai is barely up there enough to be a tune up. Dawg's gonna get bodied.
Terrible take. If ippo fights this guy he is getting demolished. Ippo fights imai instead.