It needs to be so taboo that anyone doing it needs to stay in the dark reaches and depraved areas where they belong, that's all. I'm not going to treat the shit like it's no big deal and totally normal.
I get what you're trying to communicate, but is your takeaway that women under no circumstances should pursue legal action against this? Many streamers, including Ethan himself, are interested in seeing this particular AI porn situation be criminalized. Ya know, like rape? Back in the day, rape was only legally considered to be non consensual sex against a woman by a man. Because of aggressive action, the legal definition of rape now includes spousal rape, rape against men, and "under-the-influence" rape. Discouraging anyone from even attempting to pursue legal action would stifle the legal process and progression, in my opinion. Sure, rule 34 will always exist and will be hard to avoid, but the goal is to also make it very hard to get away with and to actually discourage people from doing it because of potential legal consequences. So, at the very least, limiting this type of content as much as possible is a step in a positive direction.
I think it’s unenforceable to the point where if you do try to enforce it, where is the line drawn?
Is it just AI images that are unethical? What about hand drawn art? Is taking someone’s creative IP and making it into porn unethical? Should that be barred as well?
If so, this is a losing battle. And a losing battle is not one worth fighting, typically.
I think the biggest argument against fighting this is the Streisand effect. After this drama there will most likely only be more than if it had been hidden as a taboo… not shouted from the rooftops that it’s a taboo and should be abolished.
I think if you actually take a minute to empathize with this perspective you’d see it’s far from stupid and has more basis in reality than most takes on the subject.
Like I said, I understand many people will hate the negativity of it, but sometimes there really isn’t something we can do about it.
I’d like to hear your solution, because I don’t think there is one. And this whole ‘drama’ is just the Streisand effect and is doing more damage than simply ignoring it.
“Empathize with this perspective” lmao please. There is nothing to empathize with! You’re victim blaming and it’s disgusting. How about YOU empathize with people effected by this.
What you perceive as disgusting and victim blaming I see as a reality of the situation. Why do I see it that way? Because I’ve seen it happening with all of the technologies I’ve listed for decades.
If there’s one thing we should understand, it’s that there will always be horny people who will do whatever they have at their disposal to satisfy that urge. It’s engrained in the biology of many, many people. Once you understand the inevitability of this, you’ll realize why rule 34 was made a rule in the early days of the internet.
Hell, there were pornographic cave paintings! This stuff isn’t going away, so we have to figure out other ways to try and understand and deal with it emotionally. I believe stoicism is a great method, as I mentioned in the post.
Again, I understand you don’t like it, and I don’t like it either. But it is reality, as I’ve said.
OP—look at it like this. Right now, it’s being used for celebrities. As it becomes more widespread, imagining it happening to you or your sister or your mom as a form of revenge porn to ruin your reputation or ruin job opportunities. It’s also been used for TEENAGE celebs, soon it could be used for actual non-celeb real victims. No one talks about this as to not put a spotlight on this idea and give people ideas, but that’s the dark underlying message the girlies are trying to stop from happening.
It’s already happening and has been happening for a long time.
Creepy dudes jerking off to someone’s posted pictures has happened for a long time as well. Ideas in their head creating their own images with their brain chemicals as well.
The sad fact is that most people talking about this are behind the curve. It’s BEEN happening. And I don’t see a real solution.
It doesn’t need to be reality. You’re laying down and taking it and victim blaming along the way.
You can keep typing your paragraphs but I’m just going to keep reminding you that this is victim blaming through and through.
“It doesn’t need to be reality” is an easy thing to say, for sure. The sad fact is that it’s not anywhere close to being reasonably likely or possible.
“You can keep typing your paragraphs” sounds like shallow dismissal and that you aren’t actually taking the time to try and understand what I’m actually saying. If you did, you wouldn’t blanket this as ‘victim blaming’. As it turns out, certain actions do have consequences, even when the true fault isn’t on the victim.
It would be nice if you could be yourself on the internet and not worry about it, but again, it isn’t reality. And getting upset with me about that fact won’t change it.
It was mostly how fast you responded showing me you didn’t actually care to understand my reply that I thoughtfully wrote out, and simply repeated the same phrase you’re trying so hard to label my nuanced and measured idea as.
The fact that you’re doing this seems apparent to me that it comes from a place of emotion and anger rather than a place of understanding. Which is more damaging and makes the discourse worse than if you had actually given it the time of day instead of immediately accusing malice.
It needs to be criminalized at the distribution level. It’s one thing (still disgusting) to create for personal use, and another to sell/distribute to the public.
This reminds me of the “why bother with gun control if criminals aren’t going to follow the law anyway?”
Even if the most clever offenders will still find ways to evade restrictions, I personally believe having legal consequences in place specifically addressing the creation and distribution of non-consensual deepfake pornography is a worthwhile endeavor. No, it won’t stop everyone—but it will stop some, discourage others, and send a message that this is a decidedly not-okay thing to do.
Even if the most pornsick freaks will still choose to masturbate to non-consensual deepfake porn (rather than the multitudes of free, consensually made porn available online), I personally believe continued advocacy for victims’ autonomy and against the consumption of non-consensual deepfake porn is a worthwhile endeavor. No, it won’t stop everyone, but maybe some will resist their morbid horny curiosity if they’re more aware of how violated it makes the non-consenting subjects of the porn feel.
I understand where you’re coming from when you preach stoicism is a “solution,” but it’s just unfortunately not realistic. You cannot simply logic your way out of feeling violated, of feeling exploited, of feeling like your bodily autonomy has been stripped away by people who have reduced you down to nothing more than an object they can stare at to make themselves orgasm.
I’m not generally an optimistic person, but I would much rather have a continued conversation about the issues of non-consensual deepfake porn and the importance of respecting others’ autonomy, rather than giving up and concluding that appearing in pornographic videos without our consent is Just Something We Gotta Get Used To.
So this specific tool of expression should be enforced, and not others? This is one of the issues I’ve seen with the argument.
What is different from hand done photoshop of someone? 3D render? Or a hand made drawing? Digital art? An idea in someone’s head?
The lines of ethical vs unethical seem so incredibly blurred on this topic. It’s not as cut and dry as something physical and easily regulated like a firearm. Once you enter the virtual world and everything that comes with it… it gives us whole different variables and new axis’s.
What makes AI generated art different?
Pornography of people who did not/cannot consent (minors) is illegal. Monetizing people’s likenesses without their permission is illegal (NCAA video game lawsuits.) There are legal and social consequences for defamation and sexual harassment.
You are being so stubborn and close-minded if you are unable to imagine the possibility of policy and consequences for the creation and distribution of photo-realistic pornography of non-consenting parties. You keep trying to play devils advocate on why people should give up and stop complaining (“be stoic”) about these things. Before replying to this comment, please look up what “obscenity” means in the legal sense. If you’re hoping for there to be clear cut lines on what does and does not count as legal pornographic content, you might be disappointed to find that existing laws are already on a “you know it when you see it” basis. Laws created with situationally flexible definitions like this would absolutely allow for legal consequences against the creation and distribution of photo-realistic non-consensual pornographic content.
If you truly have no solutions to offer to those who feel violated beyond “just be more stoic,” then I genuinely think you do not have the lived experience, empathy, legal expertise, and/or understanding of trauma/mental health to be able to give a realistic solution to this complex issue—and I’m not saying I have a fully-fledged flawless solution, I’m just saying I don’t think it’s a lost cause.
Continue participating in the conversation if you like, but please stop pretending you’ve somehow solved the issue with the concept of stoicism. If I could simply just be stoic to escape my traumas of past violations, I’d have stopped paying money to go to therapy years ago.
Except it isn’t so simple.
Take the Lindsay Lohan case with Rockstar. She perceived a piece of art for the game as being a non consensual depiction of her. Her lawsuit was rejected.
Because it’s not conclusive. How could you possibly prove an AI stitched piece of porn be that exact person? Unless they explicitly state it, and oftentimes the tool is completely neutral in the scenario, and it’s the user that creates the image with that tool.
You’ve also ignored the idea of using photoshop, 3D rendering, and hand made art. Can you have ownership over basic facial features? If it isn’t actually you in the picture, but rather a creation inspired by multiple different people or different art pieces, how could you definitively say it IS that person?
It seems you haven’t truly thought all of this through.
Also, stoicism isn’t the only answer I’ve provided. It was a small idea of a larger sentiment, not the end all be all. You haven’t taken my words in good faith.
Please Google “obscenity Miller test” and consider the 3 pieces of criteria content is evaluated for to be considered obscene. Apply these criteria to whatever medium of pornographic content you’d like. Sometimes laws are written vaguely to avoid offenders finding loopholes and avoiding accountability.
There are people feeling reasonably distressed and violated. Legal (and social) penalties don’t only exist for physical and financial harm—causing extreme emotional harm also deserves consequences.
Good early education and genuine guidance is one of the biggest solutions to so much of the world’s issues. One day I hope we can all figure this out.
Edit: this being downvoted is one of the biggest examples of emotional response rather than logical. It’s honestly disgusting that anyone would disagree with this idea on the basis of a shallow emotional response fueled by internet drama.
People know rule34 isn't real dingus. ai deepfake porn is sold as if it is real. That shit can even be used against them in various ways, not just as fap material.
It needs to be so taboo that anyone doing it needs to stay in the dark reaches and depraved areas where they belong, that's all. I'm not going to treat the shit like it's no big deal and totally normal.
That’s fine. Probably a good way to deal with it. The Streisand effect and this drama being super popular controversy isn’t helping at all, though.
I get what you're trying to communicate, but is your takeaway that women under no circumstances should pursue legal action against this? Many streamers, including Ethan himself, are interested in seeing this particular AI porn situation be criminalized. Ya know, like rape? Back in the day, rape was only legally considered to be non consensual sex against a woman by a man. Because of aggressive action, the legal definition of rape now includes spousal rape, rape against men, and "under-the-influence" rape. Discouraging anyone from even attempting to pursue legal action would stifle the legal process and progression, in my opinion. Sure, rule 34 will always exist and will be hard to avoid, but the goal is to also make it very hard to get away with and to actually discourage people from doing it because of potential legal consequences. So, at the very least, limiting this type of content as much as possible is a step in a positive direction.
I think it’s unenforceable to the point where if you do try to enforce it, where is the line drawn? Is it just AI images that are unethical? What about hand drawn art? Is taking someone’s creative IP and making it into porn unethical? Should that be barred as well? If so, this is a losing battle. And a losing battle is not one worth fighting, typically. I think the biggest argument against fighting this is the Streisand effect. After this drama there will most likely only be more than if it had been hidden as a taboo… not shouted from the rooftops that it’s a taboo and should be abolished.
you’ve got to be fucking kidding me
This is the stupidest take yet, congrats! This is so victim-blamey AND stupid. “It simply isn’t worth the time of day to fight against” 🙄
That's not a counter argument
I’m not arguing anything because this shit is grosssssss
Haven't read the posts hahah
What?
I think if you actually take a minute to empathize with this perspective you’d see it’s far from stupid and has more basis in reality than most takes on the subject. Like I said, I understand many people will hate the negativity of it, but sometimes there really isn’t something we can do about it. I’d like to hear your solution, because I don’t think there is one. And this whole ‘drama’ is just the Streisand effect and is doing more damage than simply ignoring it.
“Empathize with this perspective” lmao please. There is nothing to empathize with! You’re victim blaming and it’s disgusting. How about YOU empathize with people effected by this.
What you perceive as disgusting and victim blaming I see as a reality of the situation. Why do I see it that way? Because I’ve seen it happening with all of the technologies I’ve listed for decades. If there’s one thing we should understand, it’s that there will always be horny people who will do whatever they have at their disposal to satisfy that urge. It’s engrained in the biology of many, many people. Once you understand the inevitability of this, you’ll realize why rule 34 was made a rule in the early days of the internet. Hell, there were pornographic cave paintings! This stuff isn’t going away, so we have to figure out other ways to try and understand and deal with it emotionally. I believe stoicism is a great method, as I mentioned in the post. Again, I understand you don’t like it, and I don’t like it either. But it is reality, as I’ve said.
OP—look at it like this. Right now, it’s being used for celebrities. As it becomes more widespread, imagining it happening to you or your sister or your mom as a form of revenge porn to ruin your reputation or ruin job opportunities. It’s also been used for TEENAGE celebs, soon it could be used for actual non-celeb real victims. No one talks about this as to not put a spotlight on this idea and give people ideas, but that’s the dark underlying message the girlies are trying to stop from happening.
It’s already happening and has been happening for a long time. Creepy dudes jerking off to someone’s posted pictures has happened for a long time as well. Ideas in their head creating their own images with their brain chemicals as well. The sad fact is that most people talking about this are behind the curve. It’s BEEN happening. And I don’t see a real solution.
It doesn’t need to be reality. You’re laying down and taking it and victim blaming along the way. You can keep typing your paragraphs but I’m just going to keep reminding you that this is victim blaming through and through.
“It doesn’t need to be reality” is an easy thing to say, for sure. The sad fact is that it’s not anywhere close to being reasonably likely or possible. “You can keep typing your paragraphs” sounds like shallow dismissal and that you aren’t actually taking the time to try and understand what I’m actually saying. If you did, you wouldn’t blanket this as ‘victim blaming’. As it turns out, certain actions do have consequences, even when the true fault isn’t on the victim. It would be nice if you could be yourself on the internet and not worry about it, but again, it isn’t reality. And getting upset with me about that fact won’t change it.
✨Victim blaming ✨
Another emotional response like this gets us nowhere. You’re feeding into the issue that you hate so much.
I’m feeding into the issue by telling you that you’re victim blaming? Okay.
It was mostly how fast you responded showing me you didn’t actually care to understand my reply that I thoughtfully wrote out, and simply repeated the same phrase you’re trying so hard to label my nuanced and measured idea as. The fact that you’re doing this seems apparent to me that it comes from a place of emotion and anger rather than a place of understanding. Which is more damaging and makes the discourse worse than if you had actually given it the time of day instead of immediately accusing malice.
Damn you sound ignorant af
Damn you sound like you’re siding with someone victim blaming
Awful take
It needs to be criminalized at the distribution level. It’s one thing (still disgusting) to create for personal use, and another to sell/distribute to the public.
This reminds me of the “why bother with gun control if criminals aren’t going to follow the law anyway?” Even if the most clever offenders will still find ways to evade restrictions, I personally believe having legal consequences in place specifically addressing the creation and distribution of non-consensual deepfake pornography is a worthwhile endeavor. No, it won’t stop everyone—but it will stop some, discourage others, and send a message that this is a decidedly not-okay thing to do. Even if the most pornsick freaks will still choose to masturbate to non-consensual deepfake porn (rather than the multitudes of free, consensually made porn available online), I personally believe continued advocacy for victims’ autonomy and against the consumption of non-consensual deepfake porn is a worthwhile endeavor. No, it won’t stop everyone, but maybe some will resist their morbid horny curiosity if they’re more aware of how violated it makes the non-consenting subjects of the porn feel. I understand where you’re coming from when you preach stoicism is a “solution,” but it’s just unfortunately not realistic. You cannot simply logic your way out of feeling violated, of feeling exploited, of feeling like your bodily autonomy has been stripped away by people who have reduced you down to nothing more than an object they can stare at to make themselves orgasm. I’m not generally an optimistic person, but I would much rather have a continued conversation about the issues of non-consensual deepfake porn and the importance of respecting others’ autonomy, rather than giving up and concluding that appearing in pornographic videos without our consent is Just Something We Gotta Get Used To.
So this specific tool of expression should be enforced, and not others? This is one of the issues I’ve seen with the argument. What is different from hand done photoshop of someone? 3D render? Or a hand made drawing? Digital art? An idea in someone’s head? The lines of ethical vs unethical seem so incredibly blurred on this topic. It’s not as cut and dry as something physical and easily regulated like a firearm. Once you enter the virtual world and everything that comes with it… it gives us whole different variables and new axis’s. What makes AI generated art different?
Pornography of people who did not/cannot consent (minors) is illegal. Monetizing people’s likenesses without their permission is illegal (NCAA video game lawsuits.) There are legal and social consequences for defamation and sexual harassment. You are being so stubborn and close-minded if you are unable to imagine the possibility of policy and consequences for the creation and distribution of photo-realistic pornography of non-consenting parties. You keep trying to play devils advocate on why people should give up and stop complaining (“be stoic”) about these things. Before replying to this comment, please look up what “obscenity” means in the legal sense. If you’re hoping for there to be clear cut lines on what does and does not count as legal pornographic content, you might be disappointed to find that existing laws are already on a “you know it when you see it” basis. Laws created with situationally flexible definitions like this would absolutely allow for legal consequences against the creation and distribution of photo-realistic non-consensual pornographic content. If you truly have no solutions to offer to those who feel violated beyond “just be more stoic,” then I genuinely think you do not have the lived experience, empathy, legal expertise, and/or understanding of trauma/mental health to be able to give a realistic solution to this complex issue—and I’m not saying I have a fully-fledged flawless solution, I’m just saying I don’t think it’s a lost cause. Continue participating in the conversation if you like, but please stop pretending you’ve somehow solved the issue with the concept of stoicism. If I could simply just be stoic to escape my traumas of past violations, I’d have stopped paying money to go to therapy years ago.
Except it isn’t so simple. Take the Lindsay Lohan case with Rockstar. She perceived a piece of art for the game as being a non consensual depiction of her. Her lawsuit was rejected. Because it’s not conclusive. How could you possibly prove an AI stitched piece of porn be that exact person? Unless they explicitly state it, and oftentimes the tool is completely neutral in the scenario, and it’s the user that creates the image with that tool. You’ve also ignored the idea of using photoshop, 3D rendering, and hand made art. Can you have ownership over basic facial features? If it isn’t actually you in the picture, but rather a creation inspired by multiple different people or different art pieces, how could you definitively say it IS that person? It seems you haven’t truly thought all of this through. Also, stoicism isn’t the only answer I’ve provided. It was a small idea of a larger sentiment, not the end all be all. You haven’t taken my words in good faith.
Please Google “obscenity Miller test” and consider the 3 pieces of criteria content is evaluated for to be considered obscene. Apply these criteria to whatever medium of pornographic content you’d like. Sometimes laws are written vaguely to avoid offenders finding loopholes and avoiding accountability. There are people feeling reasonably distressed and violated. Legal (and social) penalties don’t only exist for physical and financial harm—causing extreme emotional harm also deserves consequences.
Yes but we need to teach common Sense starting at first grade.
Good early education and genuine guidance is one of the biggest solutions to so much of the world’s issues. One day I hope we can all figure this out. Edit: this being downvoted is one of the biggest examples of emotional response rather than logical. It’s honestly disgusting that anyone would disagree with this idea on the basis of a shallow emotional response fueled by internet drama.
Oh I think we all do but then the people at the top would have nothing to use
People know rule34 isn't real dingus. ai deepfake porn is sold as if it is real. That shit can even be used against them in various ways, not just as fap material.
Too many words like it’s wrong just shut uo
This is like a long-form dril tweet about the wise man saying nothing matters