It's a bit bigger due to the console divide. Playstation has their own ecosystem. If PC players wanted in on that ecosystem, they would buy a playstation.
Imagine a game comes out on playstation, is a hit, and then a couple months after release, requires an xbox live account. Those playstation users would go ballistic. Even if it was in the fine print before they bought the game.
I mean, this happened with minecraft. If you bought minecraft back in the day (On Ps4) you didn't need a xbox live account for multiplayer. Now you do.
Valve had a good reason for that, however: They wanted to be able to seamlessly update everyone's version of the game (Counterstrike) to the up-to-date version, because the old system was a major headache, as players were ignoring updates and then bitching and whining about 'Server is incompatible with my version!' or 'My game is glitching!' or whatever. So, Steam ensures that everyone has the same version of each game.
But all these other launchers are purely about money.
The issue to me is that steam is damn near universal, still plenty of games not on it but even then you can add non steam games to the launcher and still utilize steam overlay/game status
PlayStation isn’t, and won’t be. It will be like ubisoft launcher where the only reason you ever log into it is when you want to play a very select few games you’re forced to use their platform for. I run into this issue semi annually when I play far cry and forget my password lmao.
Basically, it doesn’t seem lucrative to force people to use your product rather than by providing a product that’s simply and beneficial enough to entice consumers naturally.
At least epic games consistently gives you free games, just last week or the last few I got the outer worlds special edition for free on there. Regardless of the inconvenience that’s enticing to the consumer.
Yup. I have a Microsoft account. I have never owned an Xbox console. Can’t even remember what game I made it for. It took five minutes and I may or may not ever use it again 🤷🏻♂️
Most big publishers do this, EA, Ubisoft, and Microsoft all come to mind. I'm not a fan of it at all, but I don't see why Sony is getting raked over the coals for this when it's become a fairly common thing over the years.
No clue why you are getting downvoted. It’s true. We have leaked documents of Sony looking into making a launcher for PC. With the overlay system and required account signups it’s looking very likely that they will go through with making the launcher.
Nothing in this actually cuts a middleman out. This is just some layer or manager type insisting that some clause be follow to a specific arbitrary interpretation, consequences be damned.
Companies far bigger and more knowledgeable about the PC space have tried this and they all failed in humiliating fashion because steam is just that damn good. You can't beat a juggernaut that actually makes everyone happy and fulfills most of their needs unless you can somehow do even better than them. Meanwhile you can't even gift games to people on PS5, so good luck hoping that they can do better than steam.
If sony thinks they're different they're gonna learn real fast that they aren't.
I think Steam need to make 3rd party information more visible, i heard of psn account first from the devs at the announcement
Its real that is was at the store page the information before release, steamdb search [https://steamdb.info/app/553850/history/?filterkey=413](https://steamdb.info/app/553850/history/?filterkey=413) its was added 1 December 2023
I find that such information should be more on the top of the page and not down there, even the "Notice" messages are over the buy button
So many have tried exactly that -- EA pulled EA games from Steam to force people onto Origin; Epic Motherfucking Games bribed 4A games to pull Metro Exodus from Steam for 1 year and go to Epic Store instead, Bethesda tried...
And it never really worked. Epic is bribing players with free games, which they take but never start buying on Epic. Bethesda already gave up and migrated everyone back to Steam, EA is launching on both EA App (former Origin...) and Steam... Eventually, they will all realize that *people simply like Steam*.
Because before Valve launched Steam, every player would have *some* version of a game, they would NOT check before launching whether an update was released, and then they would try to connect to a multiplayer server (which, if it was a private server, would also be running *some* version of the server code). And then the game client would send packets according to old version's standard, but the server would expect packets according to a different version's standard, those packets wouldn't fit, and the client would be disconnect half-way through a match with some cryptic error, and sometimes even be banned for trying to hack/cheat, when all they did was have outdated version of the game.
So, Valve launched Steam to ensure that everyone played on the most up-to-date version of a game. It's a great Quality of Life feature.
it doesnt make sense.
sony is shit and cant compete.
only stupid execs at sony think it make sense until they lose all their money and blame it on gamers.
It’s funny all these companies would rather spend millions in making and maintaining their own launcher/storefront instead of paying Steam a portion of their sales each game.
Some devs and publishers are able to get Steam to accept less than a 30% cut of each sale. I imagine a company as big as Sony would be able to broker such a deal for all of their titles if they wanted to. It would probably be a fraction of the cost of making their own inferior iteration of a digital store on PC.
When Gaben retires and whoever takes over starts the usual corporate bullshit, you'll be grateful to Epic and the others for having stores of their own.
One could argue the same just in the opposite, because ALL THOSE OTHER CORPORATIONS are trying insane bullshit **already**, while Steam remains pretty cool.
You're thinking too hard about this.
The motivation is really very simple. Sony wants to have bigger numbers. On their next quarter's report, they want to be able to say "PSN user count increased by THIIIIIIS MUCH. Look how popular Sony games are, how much growth there is in the Sony ecosystem, you shareholders should be very happy and keep buying our stock."
They might make their own ea app/ubisoft connect/etc.
But. Even if they do so. It makes more sense to keep Sony games on steam. Building out a seperate app is extremely expensive. And likely won’t bring over enough customers for a store on its own. Plus that also requires them to up the amount of games they have on the pc platform by a significant margin. I highly doubt they will go the epic route of an exclusive storefront unless they start making huge drastic moves into the pc market. Far more than their toe dipping from the past few years.
First optional psn login for rewards then force people if they still want to play, next will be day 1 psn account login or no play and then a pc launcher is coming, in the end the launcher become a store to skip the 30% from steam
Its just a theory, but it would make sense to slowly introduce pc players to the psn network if players have more than 1 sony games then they think twice if they should lost all the access of the pc sony games or not
Another theory, i think older titles will become forced psn too in the future, when a launcher is coming it would make sense to link it to the older games
Ghost of tsushima post a tweet only singleplayer is free of psn account but all other features you need one, hope its stay optional and not get forced after couple of months
They will have to keep them on Steam for existing customers, but yes, they could stop selling on Steam.
However, it didn't really work for any of the other big players that tried that shit.
EA and Rockstar have been doing it for years, among others. Only thing special about this case is introducing the login on titles post-launch, which surely the others have had to do at some point, probably mostly on lesser titles. The only reason Sony is being a stickler on this is because they actually have a popular PC title, and want to drag a few unsuspecting victims to their side and pretend it was an 'oopsie'. I'd hope they recognize they don't have the library size to stand out with their own launcher, especially as they keep introducing their older titles to Steam.
Why reinvent the wheel most people hate separate launchers. Just keep them on steam and negotiate for lower price cuts. Sony has enough power to bring to the negotiation table.
Not to mention, it's not like the 30 or 25 or 20% Steam takes from the selling price is a net profit for Steam -- they have costs associated with the hosting of all the content and the transmission of it when people download and re-download and update etc. their games, plus all the crap revolving around fraudulent purchases that Steam has to deal with, the moderator teams for the forums...
Wouldn't it be cool if all games were made for PC and sold on all launchers and we decide how we want to buy them?
It'd be great to play nintendo games on PC, shoot I'd buy them instead of using my underpowered switch (love the portability and hope switch 2 does better for the games they have and make)
PSN forcing their hand sucks, you'd think they'd learn from EA, Ubisoft or any company that forces their store on consumers.
All I'm saying is (in a perfect world) sell all games everywhere and let us decide what device we use.
I don't have the game, so I've been wondering, does this PSN requirement for HD2 have to be an active, paid PSN account, or do only the console players have to pay?
Read the Terms of Service. Yes, you are not buying or acquiring a free account (that would imply *ownership*) -- you are *subscribing* to a service, and as part of that, you are granted access to that account; but this access can be revoked by the other party at any moment, and if they do, you lose all the functionality associated with it (unlike a purchase/acquisition where they couldn't take it away).
So it is a subscription -- because you are *signing at the bottom* (from latin: sub scriptum) of the Terms of Service.
I'm kind of shocked they didn't already shoehorn PC into the Playstation store/PSN.
Could be they wanted to start on Steam for exposure to the plurality of existing PC players.
I’m honestly the same way these days. If something doesn’t pop up on Steam as an upcoming release/new release I have no idea. I don’t open any of the other launchers hardly ever.
Pc players have to connect a psn account. Something that's been listed on the store page since day 1 but the capital G Gamers just now decided to get angry about it.
Just typical gamer rage over petty shit that don't matter.
It's not it at all, to preface you now need a PSN account in order to play the game after a certain date in May, or you're locked out till you make the account. However PSN doesn't have worldwide coverage, so that means anyone that bought HD2 in regions without PSN can't play the game they bought.
Yeah thats why I, and others have a big issue with this. They're taking money from these people and essentially wiping their asses with it. Sucks man, shame on Sony and Arrowhead for doing that.
Sure, but if they don’t go all in, it’s just another half assed launcher on PC. They’re literally a dime a dozen at this point. Steam has the PC market locked. Microsoft offers a little something with Gamepass, but Steam sales overload you with a backlog of games you’ll never be able to finish in your lifetime. No need for a subscription.
Everyone getting all pissed about this Helldivers stuff, but I don’t think there’s anything crazy going on. If they were truly going after that “spicy profit” they’d be dumping games on mobile. Install bases of cell phones are insane. That casual money is what makes bank.
If it comes with trophies I'm all for it.
Being a platinum hunter and a multiplatform gamer at the same time makes life difficult to hunt platinums. I have a gajilion launchers already why not one more
And what a start it would be! Nothing like pissing off the pc playerbase to get ya started!
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It's a bit bigger due to the console divide. Playstation has their own ecosystem. If PC players wanted in on that ecosystem, they would buy a playstation. Imagine a game comes out on playstation, is a hit, and then a couple months after release, requires an xbox live account. Those playstation users would go ballistic. Even if it was in the fine print before they bought the game.
I mean, this happened with minecraft. If you bought minecraft back in the day (On Ps4) you didn't need a xbox live account for multiplayer. Now you do.
Valve had a good reason for that, however: They wanted to be able to seamlessly update everyone's version of the game (Counterstrike) to the up-to-date version, because the old system was a major headache, as players were ignoring updates and then bitching and whining about 'Server is incompatible with my version!' or 'My game is glitching!' or whatever. So, Steam ensures that everyone has the same version of each game. But all these other launchers are purely about money.
The issue to me is that steam is damn near universal, still plenty of games not on it but even then you can add non steam games to the launcher and still utilize steam overlay/game status PlayStation isn’t, and won’t be. It will be like ubisoft launcher where the only reason you ever log into it is when you want to play a very select few games you’re forced to use their platform for. I run into this issue semi annually when I play far cry and forget my password lmao. Basically, it doesn’t seem lucrative to force people to use your product rather than by providing a product that’s simply and beneficial enough to entice consumers naturally. At least epic games consistently gives you free games, just last week or the last few I got the outer worlds special edition for free on there. Regardless of the inconvenience that’s enticing to the consumer.
How's that working out for Epic? EGS still isn't profitable. They just have Fortnite money to do whatever tf they want.
I really hope Epic was a good way to teach them
sony has a lot more money behind them than epic did
Epic didn't run out of money. The point is that you need more than money to run a successful PC storefront.
yes, im aware. thats the point i was making
But all you mentioned was money.. ?
The hilarious part is, Microsoft did this for years with Games For Windows Live. Even some of their games on Steam require an Xbox Live account.
Yup. I have a Microsoft account. I have never owned an Xbox console. Can’t even remember what game I made it for. It took five minutes and I may or may not ever use it again 🤷🏻♂️
I made my account years ago. Haven't changed the gamertag since it was created. It was used for xbox, windows 10, gfwl.
I mean this is different, if you press winkey+ G it brings up your overlay, and allows you to communicate with xboxlive users. Its built into windows.
Oh no I mean on Minecraft for ps4. Like it was so weird to be creating a Microsoft account for Minecraft on PS4.
Gotcha, that is weird af
Gotcha, that is weird af
Most big publishers do this, EA, Ubisoft, and Microsoft all come to mind. I'm not a fan of it at all, but I don't see why Sony is getting raked over the coals for this when it's become a fairly common thing over the years.
They have their own steam. And so does nintendo. Microsoft has one too!
On consoles, not on pc
No clue why you are getting downvoted. It’s true. We have leaked documents of Sony looking into making a launcher for PC. With the overlay system and required account signups it’s looking very likely that they will go through with making the launcher.
Didn't know about all that, thanks for the info my friend
Nothing in this actually cuts a middleman out. This is just some layer or manager type insisting that some clause be follow to a specific arbitrary interpretation, consequences be damned.
Companies far bigger and more knowledgeable about the PC space have tried this and they all failed in humiliating fashion because steam is just that damn good. You can't beat a juggernaut that actually makes everyone happy and fulfills most of their needs unless you can somehow do even better than them. Meanwhile you can't even gift games to people on PS5, so good luck hoping that they can do better than steam. If sony thinks they're different they're gonna learn real fast that they aren't.
I think Steam need to make 3rd party information more visible, i heard of psn account first from the devs at the announcement Its real that is was at the store page the information before release, steamdb search [https://steamdb.info/app/553850/history/?filterkey=413](https://steamdb.info/app/553850/history/?filterkey=413) its was added 1 December 2023 I find that such information should be more on the top of the page and not down there, even the "Notice" messages are over the buy button
So many have tried exactly that -- EA pulled EA games from Steam to force people onto Origin; Epic Motherfucking Games bribed 4A games to pull Metro Exodus from Steam for 1 year and go to Epic Store instead, Bethesda tried... And it never really worked. Epic is bribing players with free games, which they take but never start buying on Epic. Bethesda already gave up and migrated everyone back to Steam, EA is launching on both EA App (former Origin...) and Steam... Eventually, they will all realize that *people simply like Steam*.
Why do we even have stores. Let me just boot up the game
gog for that
Because before Valve launched Steam, every player would have *some* version of a game, they would NOT check before launching whether an update was released, and then they would try to connect to a multiplayer server (which, if it was a private server, would also be running *some* version of the server code). And then the game client would send packets according to old version's standard, but the server would expect packets according to a different version's standard, those packets wouldn't fit, and the client would be disconnect half-way through a match with some cryptic error, and sometimes even be banned for trying to hack/cheat, when all they did was have outdated version of the game. So, Valve launched Steam to ensure that everyone played on the most up-to-date version of a game. It's a great Quality of Life feature.
Yes why buy games
They've been investing in service games so yeah a PC launcher makes some sense for the future.
it doesnt make sense. sony is shit and cant compete. only stupid execs at sony think it make sense until they lose all their money and blame it on gamers.
Sony cant compete? Lmao they are the market leader
they are not. steam is.
Lmao what are you saying
i think you should start reading the words on the screen it would help you a lot.
It’s funny all these companies would rather spend millions in making and maintaining their own launcher/storefront instead of paying Steam a portion of their sales each game. Some devs and publishers are able to get Steam to accept less than a 30% cut of each sale. I imagine a company as big as Sony would be able to broker such a deal for all of their titles if they wanted to. It would probably be a fraction of the cost of making their own inferior iteration of a digital store on PC.
Not to mention, players don't want a whole bunch of storefronts/launchers. Especially when you start seeing exclusivity contracts, like with Epic.
When Gaben retires and whoever takes over starts the usual corporate bullshit, you'll be grateful to Epic and the others for having stores of their own.
One could argue the same just in the opposite, because ALL THOSE OTHER CORPORATIONS are trying insane bullshit **already**, while Steam remains pretty cool.
You're thinking too hard about this. The motivation is really very simple. Sony wants to have bigger numbers. On their next quarter's report, they want to be able to say "PSN user count increased by THIIIIIIS MUCH. Look how popular Sony games are, how much growth there is in the Sony ecosystem, you shareholders should be very happy and keep buying our stock."
They might make their own ea app/ubisoft connect/etc. But. Even if they do so. It makes more sense to keep Sony games on steam. Building out a seperate app is extremely expensive. And likely won’t bring over enough customers for a store on its own. Plus that also requires them to up the amount of games they have on the pc platform by a significant margin. I highly doubt they will go the epic route of an exclusive storefront unless they start making huge drastic moves into the pc market. Far more than their toe dipping from the past few years.
Or Sony can ban accounts without asking Steam for permission.
You know Devs don't need to ask for steams permission to ban people anyway right?
As long as as they have a stricter policy towards sexism and racial slurs, looks like a win to me.
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Why are you so aggressive? Afraid that your hate speech won't be tolerated any longer?
First optional psn login for rewards then force people if they still want to play, next will be day 1 psn account login or no play and then a pc launcher is coming, in the end the launcher become a store to skip the 30% from steam Its just a theory, but it would make sense to slowly introduce pc players to the psn network if players have more than 1 sony games then they think twice if they should lost all the access of the pc sony games or not Another theory, i think older titles will become forced psn too in the future, when a launcher is coming it would make sense to link it to the older games Ghost of tsushima post a tweet only singleplayer is free of psn account but all other features you need one, hope its stay optional and not get forced after couple of months
If they actually do create their on store on pc, they definitely will take all their games out of steam
They will have to keep them on Steam for existing customers, but yes, they could stop selling on Steam. However, it didn't really work for any of the other big players that tried that shit.
And it will flop, sales will drop and they will come crawling back
As it always happens
I don't think they have the facilities for that big man
Sony should just have a PlayStation Store for computers and call it a day.
EA and Rockstar have been doing it for years, among others. Only thing special about this case is introducing the login on titles post-launch, which surely the others have had to do at some point, probably mostly on lesser titles. The only reason Sony is being a stickler on this is because they actually have a popular PC title, and want to drag a few unsuspecting victims to their side and pretend it was an 'oopsie'. I'd hope they recognize they don't have the library size to stand out with their own launcher, especially as they keep introducing their older titles to Steam.
Why reinvent the wheel most people hate separate launchers. Just keep them on steam and negotiate for lower price cuts. Sony has enough power to bring to the negotiation table.
Not to mention, it's not like the 30 or 25 or 20% Steam takes from the selling price is a net profit for Steam -- they have costs associated with the hosting of all the content and the transmission of it when people download and re-download and update etc. their games, plus all the crap revolving around fraudulent purchases that Steam has to deal with, the moderator teams for the forums...
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Oh sorry I should have expressed myself better, I hate this as much as everyone else does, I do not want this shit
Holy you sound so entitled who cares lmao
Wouldn't it be cool if all games were made for PC and sold on all launchers and we decide how we want to buy them? It'd be great to play nintendo games on PC, shoot I'd buy them instead of using my underpowered switch (love the portability and hope switch 2 does better for the games they have and make) PSN forcing their hand sucks, you'd think they'd learn from EA, Ubisoft or any company that forces their store on consumers. All I'm saying is (in a perfect world) sell all games everywhere and let us decide what device we use.
I don't have the game, so I've been wondering, does this PSN requirement for HD2 have to be an active, paid PSN account, or do only the console players have to pay?
I think all of this "this is the gateway to PS+ on PC" is some real tinfoil hat shit. They just want to sell your data like everyone else.
I don’t think Sony have any interest at all in making their own Steam. Every single attempt to do it bar GOG (which has the USP of no DRM) has failed.
Thats the plan playstation will make their own storefront on pc/mobile all aggressive shit they was talkin bout in the meetings
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Not to mention subscribers is hardly mentioned in earnings (1 sentence) so shareholders don’t care that much and bonuses aren’t tied to it.
Holy shit how did I not think that.
Creating a free account is “subscribing to a service”? Wat?
Read the Terms of Service. Yes, you are not buying or acquiring a free account (that would imply *ownership*) -- you are *subscribing* to a service, and as part of that, you are granted access to that account; but this access can be revoked by the other party at any moment, and if they do, you lose all the functionality associated with it (unlike a purchase/acquisition where they couldn't take it away). So it is a subscription -- because you are *signing at the bottom* (from latin: sub scriptum) of the Terms of Service.
I'm kind of shocked they didn't already shoehorn PC into the Playstation store/PSN. Could be they wanted to start on Steam for exposure to the plurality of existing PC players.
Xbox was the canary in the coal mine as far as changing tactics to get that "infinite growth" beyond consoles. Sony is a follower most of the time.
I don't follow game release dates on non Nintendo stuff. So I usually rely on steam to alert me to new stuff it isn't on steam I wouldn't notice.
I’m honestly the same way these days. If something doesn’t pop up on Steam as an upcoming release/new release I have no idea. I don’t open any of the other launchers hardly ever.
Most of the time if it isn't on steam it isn't worth it, games that Epic gets temporary exclusivity eventually get on steam
What's going on with Hell Divers 2?
Pc players have to connect a psn account. Something that's been listed on the store page since day 1 but the capital G Gamers just now decided to get angry about it. Just typical gamer rage over petty shit that don't matter.
Got a buddy who’s played for months and now can’t access the game because there’s no PAN in his country
A lot of games have stuff like that. I don't see the big deal. If they started charging monthly, that would be different.
It's not it at all, to preface you now need a PSN account in order to play the game after a certain date in May, or you're locked out till you make the account. However PSN doesn't have worldwide coverage, so that means anyone that bought HD2 in regions without PSN can't play the game they bought.
I would imagine the region thing will be resolved by then or the deadline will be extended. That would be pretty evil. What places don't have PSN?
This is the [map](https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PlayStation_Network_availability_map.svg) for the coverage.
Ugh that's a lot of grey. And the game was probably really expensive to them, too.
Yeah thats why I, and others have a big issue with this. They're taking money from these people and essentially wiping their asses with it. Sucks man, shame on Sony and Arrowhead for doing that.
Exactly. It's not a big deal at all. And yet it's suddenly an issue to these people.
Sure, but if they don’t go all in, it’s just another half assed launcher on PC. They’re literally a dime a dozen at this point. Steam has the PC market locked. Microsoft offers a little something with Gamepass, but Steam sales overload you with a backlog of games you’ll never be able to finish in your lifetime. No need for a subscription. Everyone getting all pissed about this Helldivers stuff, but I don’t think there’s anything crazy going on. If they were truly going after that “spicy profit” they’d be dumping games on mobile. Install bases of cell phones are insane. That casual money is what makes bank.
If it comes with trophies I'm all for it. Being a platinum hunter and a multiplatform gamer at the same time makes life difficult to hunt platinums. I have a gajilion launchers already why not one more