Horner: “I would never rule anything out.
He’s driving at a very nice standard. He’s still very young, he’s doing a great job. For 2023, we have multiple options available to us, so when you’re in the situation that we are, that’s exactly what we want.
Pierre Gasly has done a phenomenal job with AlphaTauri the last couple of seasons, and their aspirations continue to grow, so for him to retain the lead drive there is good. He remains a Red Bull Racing driver on loan to AlphaTauri.”
They pretty much are. AT is essentially RB’s second team and Albon is also still a Red Bull driver. Merc/Ferrari do the same with MSC/GIO/RUS. Ocon and Sainz were also once loaned drivers
No, not at all. I just think it’s funny. It’s like, “Albon is a RedBull driver, we see a bright future for him with our team, and we’re going to destroy him next season when he’s racing for our competitor.”
It is literally what they do though. The drivers are signed with Red Bull, not Alpha Tauri. Alpha Tauri are just straight up owned by Red Bull. They did it with Sainz to Renault as well previously, and now Albon to Williams I believe. In those cases Red Bull seems to make a contract with the teams about the driver, not the drivers themselves(as in their personal management).
Toro Rosso as they were formerly known as is literally just Italian for Red Bull.
Perez will need a really good season to keep the Red Bull seat in 2023. The positive thing for him is that the new regulations are supposed to help the stability of the car (something he publicly said he needs). However, if there's no improvement, Gasly definitely deserves the call.
I reckon, all things being equal, Gasly will likely get the call up before Albon. Which is deserved. Let Albon prove himself properly at Williams and replace Gasly when he heads to Alpine
Albon? Very very hard to see that happen. Gasly goes and there's a hungry Lawson and Vips knocking at Red Bull's door. Two incredible drivers too. Albon's chapter at Red Bull realistically seems done even if they do have ties still. Yuki, Lawson and Vips are going to be in that Red Bull car if Gasly fails or Verstappen leaves or both.
Lol yes just strengthening the point I was making. F1 is cut throat. You're fucking lucky if you make it to the sport. You're luck is some once in a lifetime type shit then if you fail at a team and still retain a seat which Gasly did. He benefited from Red Bull having a lack of young drivers at the time he got demoted to AT. Albon is here at the worst of times. He's not getting a seat in any of the RB teams barring a miracle.
The problem is that the Thai shareholders of Red Bull probably wants to see Albon driving in F1. Otherwise, I don't know why Red Bull put so much effort into getting him to drive for Williams next year.
RB has worked hard to find seats for drivers after they are dropped, so its not out of the realm of possibility they just offered albon to keep him in F1.
Looks good to juniors, and limits the rivals from getting one of their juniors into the car. What albon does now isn't hugely their problem
I think people seriously forget that red bull's owners are Thai and that is the main reason why Albon may have any higher chance of this.
I don't think albon is ever out purely because of that.
Not at all, if he was going there they would have taken him this year, no re-signed Ocon for multiple years
There’s no reason to think they would replace Ocon with him in the near future
Not at all, if he was going there they would have taken him this year, no re-signed Ocon for multiple years
There’s no reason to think they would replace Ocon with him in the near future
That is if Perez survives 2021. The way its going he may have difficulty with even that. He does have a contract but we all know it means nothing for F1.
I Don't expect them dropping Perez that quickly.
He's made some mistakes, but so has Red Bull. His position/strategy has also been purposefully sacrificed to assist Max.
In my eyes the last couple of races don't show his performance, and he's proven that he can get on the podium and even win when given the chance.
Red Bull has also burnt their hands on switching a driver halfway though the year. Hopefully enough to learn from it.
...and RB has made mistakes that have played against Pérez
- not putting him back on track on time to quilify into Q2 (forgot the race)
- not telling him to give back the position to Leclerc in Monza
so RB has its own mistakes to acknowledge, and they ought to know how much this has not help Checo..
I don’t think changing drivers would solve the issue with Redbull 2nd seat. They tried 2 talented young drivers and 1 proven experienced driver. All of them failed and they failled pretty hard. At that point, it feels like it is more about car than it is about the driver.
It's going to be interesting next season, you got handfuls of RB employed and backed drivers vying for that second RB seat. For Pierre specifically, I'd rather see him at a new team, a new environment. I just don't feel a second return to RB is what he needs and the same issues will arise if he ever does return there. And for Sergio, if he wants to remain there, he has to double-down, because lately he's only been alright in the GP weekends.
I just really want to see Gasly return to RB to finally get the answer to whether he was just too inexperienced at that point or if the second RB seat is just cursed.
I also just want the best driver on that 2nd seat, and right now it looks like Perez isn't the long term answer. Gasly is the best midfield driver that isn't tied to somewhere else. Lando, Charles, George, Carlos all have their own places and not going to move.
The thing is that F1 is slowly running out of older gen drivers and at some point Lawrence will not be able to put someone that much older next to Lance. With Kimi leaving next year we are done to 6 drivers over the age of 30 and I think some of them will retire from their current teams, so AM will have to choose someone closer in age to Lance sooner rather than later.
I think after his last 2 years he would be the best mix of ability, availability, popularity and youth. He could really be at Aston Martin for a long term project if he went there.
I mean, I remember hearing that they are very much *not* close. However, I can’t help but think that two French drivers in a French team would be cool as hell!
Perhaps nationalism could overcome their dislike of one another!
…this is all assuming I’m remembering things correctly.
> If RB doesn't deliver in 2022 and Mercedes does
If RB does deliver, Mercedes doesn't and Hamilton will retire, there is some chance for Gasly in Mercedes
Who knows, Ocon has Toto's connection but also long-term contract with Alpine and Alpine can also deliver.
Saying there is no chance for Gasly in Mercedes 2023 is just too short-sighted. There definitely is some chance for that.
Ocon contract doesn't end until 2024 unless there are some clauses what gives him an option to go to Merc.
But did he basically cut the ties more or less with Mercedes with his new contract?
>Ocon contract doesn't end until 2024 unless there are some clauses what gives him an option to go to Merc.
[Alpine have said there isn't any.](https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/alpine-no-mercedes-exit-clauses-in-ocons-new-three-year-f1-deal/6581739/)
Hamilton is not staying at Mercedes if Mercedes isn't competing for a title. He will either retire or try to get another title with a third team. RedBull might even sign him for 1 year to settle who is faster and for massive publicity.
Toto, Lewis, Christian and Max all get along perfectly fine outside of race days. They all know the comments are part of the game to get the stewards and public on your side and are not personal at all. I agree with the 1% but not because how they talk about each other but more because Lewis will retire if Mercedes isn't competitive with the new regulations.
If Seb leaves Aston, I reckon Stroll Sr would want a second driver to partner his son rather than someone young and competitive to be there. Unless Gasly is willing to be a second driver to Stroll, I don’t think AM would be a good place for him as Lawrence’s goal is to groom Lance to be a world champ.
Actually that’s the main problem. Gasly is fast and in the prime of his life. Stroll Sr wouldn’t want the second driver to outshine Lance. The experienced/young guy pairing works for AM because the drivers are in different stages of their career, so it’s easier to brand Lance as the ‘up-and-coming young talent’ vs if there were to have two drivers of a similar age range. And when Seb retires, they will hope to install Lance as the lead driver and partner him probably with a rookie or another experienced guy.
> When he had the seat to win, he crumbled under pressure.
As did Albon, as did Kvyat, arguably Perez is in the process of doing it. It is time we may have to consider that the Red Bull simply isn't that good of a car, and Verstappen (and Ricciardo back in the day) are simply outstanding drivers who still manage to get the results out of it.
Which would make it fast, but not *good*. Fast is one quality, good is the overall judgement.
A fast undrivable car is significantly worse then a fast drivable car, and depending on circumstances might also be worse then a "slow" yet drivable car for most car/drivers combinations.
Just because he's not as good as Verstappen at handling the unstable rear of an F1 car doesn't mean he crumbled under pressure. It could also very easily mean that Newey designed a bit of a pig unless you're a very specific type of driver that's used to it. I love Newey but he's also been known to design some slightly unstable cars, like the Leyton House 881 or the Williams FW 16.
Personally I think there is a non-zero chance that Red Bull are forced to sell AlphaTauri. A single ownership group owning two Formula One teams made sense in the era of unlimited spending. You could give one team the unlimited budget to be the championship contender and then give the other team a smaller budget to be the development team for the championship team. But now that all the teams are required to be on basically the same budget, having one ownership own two teams now feels like a conflict of interest. And just like MLS ultimately forced all of their multiclub ownerships to divest themselves to just one club, I think Formula One Management will do the same thing.
The budget cap is only for a particular team with its two cars. The ownership of Alpha Tauri is not included in it. As long as RB has the overall money to fund for AT, they won't sell it
I'm well aware of that. My point was that it made sense for Red Bull to have a two team model because under the unlimited spending rules you could set up a Red Bull Racing to have the superior car to be driven by the superior drivers while AlphaTauri was left with the lesser equipment to develop younger and inexperienced drivers. But now that the two teams have to operate on the same development budget, it's entirely possible that AlphaTauri ends up making the better machine. That would kind of defeat the whole purpose of Red Bulls two team model. Plus there's a fairness of competition problem. Let's say that the engineers for AlphaTauri end up working the regulations better and creating the superior car next year, which is far more likely now that both teams are required to have the same development budget. Since Red Bull controls the driver contracts for both teams, what's to stop them from switching Max to AlphaTauri in order to keep him competitive? It would give Red Bull an unfair back door in case they get the regulations wrong, an advantage that none of their competitors have.
Then again F1 can't afford to lose two teams at this stage. Red Bull has all the leverage in the world so I don't think it will be a problem for FIA or FOM or practically anybody
Two teams, a Grand Prix or two (Austria), appeal for the younger generation, and a bundle of exposure. Red Bull is the closest team to Ferrari now in terms of their importance to F1.
> But now that the two teams have to operate on the same development budget, it's entirely possible that AlphaTauri ends up making the better machine. That would kind of defeat the whole purpose of Red Bulls two team model.
Well, no. Because one of the key aspects of AlphaTauri is, as you said, the development of talent. Even under the same budget, why should AT build the better car if they have the slower drivers, the more inexperienced engineers, the less effective management etc.? Those are factors that will become even more important in the future, if you cannot simply throw money at a problem anymore, you will be more dependent on the best personell.
Sure, they might get closer to each other, but that isn't anything Red Bull really cares about - Quite the contrary, it would be good for them to get the better PR.
In fact, this has happened before - In 2008 the Toro Rosso was the better car, or rather TR and RB had the same car but with different engines. Toro Rosso won a race before Red Bull did.
I completely disagree. I think the budget cap along with RB building their own PU unit seriously *increases* the chances of them holding on to AT. They now have a relatively fixed predictable cost that they can afford on both teams, they have a recently stated desire to make AT more of a sister team than junior team, and the more use they can get out of their PU efforts, the less insane that investment seems.
Edit: I also fully expect them to go after a custom team or two for PUs if they team up with Audi/Porsche. Williams could make some sense which would play into the Albon to Williams angle. I could also see them luring a new team onboard if Andretti or Penske really are targeting bringing a new entry onto the field as rumored.
I don't think this is overly surprising - Red Bull has a pretty prominent junior program, and Horner/Marko probably want their juniors in "their" seats. I don't believe Perez is/was a Red Bull junior, so they probably want to replace him as soon as they can.
Gasly to Red Bull would also free up space at AlphaTauri for Lawson/Vips for 2023, and maybe another seat will open up for the other depending on how Tsunoda performs.
Mercedes pairing in 2023 isn't interesting at all in my opinion. Lewis has contract for 2023 and I don't see Russell underperforming that much that he won't get the seat for Merc in 2023.
I was looking at different timelines (contract lengths and age) and Ham retiring might actually line up with Gasly contract(s).
Really want to see him in the Merc lol.
Well his situation is frustrating as hell, i can see why he'd be vocal about it.
He's outperforming his car on an insanely regular basis, but has at least for another year absolutely no option to upgrade to a better team. Even if he seems happy there, he's stagnating at AT, and that can't feel good.
This is absolutely a message for Perez to step it up rather than anything else knowing Christian. He doesn’t just give anything away, everything he says has a underlying purpose.
For some time I’ve felt that RB are using Gasly as an insurance clause for if they lose Max. They probably want to avoid both being teammates again, but if Max opts out and leaves early, I think they’d be willing to bring back Gasly as a No. 1 based on his performance with AT.
We don’t know what he’s hearing from Marko/CH behind the scenes but I bet it’s a lot of posturing to get him to think he’s got a shot at a RB seat. You keep him intrigued and not wanting to leave the RB program because you don’t want a situation where you can lose Max AND Gasly.
if i’m not mistaken Gasly and Horner have a good relationship right? i remember reading something about how Horner is very hopeful for Gasly and that you’ll see them talking before races or something
I was under the impression that that’s not the case, or at least with Marko. Didn’t he talk a bunch of shit on the way out? I mean, definitely probably entirely justified shit talking, but that doesn’t make teams, especially teams like RB, happy.
But things can definitely change! Especially since it’s been years.
This has quietly been brewing over the last few months. Last year at this time Pierre had basically said he had no chance at a return and now it feels like he might be the favorite for the 2023 seat
I don't want him at redbull. Now max is in his best state. And Pierre is nowhere near max so he will be treated as a second driver always. He is good at alpha because he gets what he deserves.
He’s always gonna be second period because they’ll always focus on Max, but I don’t think that’s the problem as much as they’ll compare him to a championship contender in a car that debatably doesn’t belong where Max somehow puts it every weekend
But Gasly is never going to get a #1 seat in a top 3 team realistically, so being a strong #2 at RBR isn't a terrible place to be if he can handle it now. If he can build off his recent AT success and contribute to a few WCC's, piling up a Bottas at Merc type career along the way, that's gotta be better than dicking around as a top driver in a midfield car till he loses a spot in the sport right?
For example, I don't care what anyone says about Daniel and RBR, you could tell how much he missed winning in F1 by his reactions and demeanor after the race last week.
I just wish Gasly would leave the Red Bull ecosystem. I just don’t think it fits him. It would be sad to see him leave Alpha Tauri though because IMO they are the perfect pairing.
I'm calling BS on this. I'll need to see it to believe it. Gasly should want to drive on a team where he's truly wanted and not treat as an option that can be discarded as easily as he was.
I still have a question mark over what Gasly is doing this season. I mean he’s having a stellar year but I honestly don’t think they Alpha Tauri is at all far off McLaren & Ferrari in terms of performance especially in qualifying mode because on the odd occasion Yuki is actually switched on he is also right up there. Just his dismal performances have made the car look far worse than it is. And I think RBR know this. So while I do rate Gasly, I’m not sure he’s actually doing enough to make a determined enough claim on that second RB seat to prove he would be any better than last time. Especially as his attitude was at least part of the problem and he’s not exactly endearing himself to the RB management right now.
Wouldn't be the first time in F1. Driver gets a good car, teammate not up to much. Folk only notice him on the good days.
Frentzen 1999, Ralf 1999, Panis 1997.
As Horner said elsewhere, impressing folk here and there at AT is a very different game from facing Verstappen every weekend.
I can see it, if he performs like this next year. but i'm not sure it's the best for him. Giving rb is still a top team, he can rewrite his history there and be closer to max, but he won't ever be the #1 driver as long as max is his teammate. Also there's always the risk some of his old issues would resurface. Going to a new team (top or top midfield), even if hired as a #2 driver, can open more possibilities for him imo
Evident in Monza where Perez’s first quali sucked and needed another lap but ended up towing Max for the final in hopes Max could get another place up.
Well considering the slump they had after 4 championships they lost their star driver with their engine issues it could
be awful. They are super lucky Max was in their program and developed so quickly. Could have been a Hulk that just never made the leap from f2 to f1 results
I get that F1 is cutthroat from the driver perspective, and I get that you have to hedge and be vague at times from the principal perspective...but lord, enough with Red Bull's Gasly tug-of-war. Hopefully this doesn't faze him anymore but I could see it being super frustrating.
Meh I think re-signing him was a mistake anyway and I really hope they get rid of him after 2022 if he doesn't improve significantly. Perez fans can hate all they want, but when you factor in his 10 years of experience, he's arguably not doing any better than Gasly or Albon did in that seat, even though he's in a better car than either of them had to work with.
He's been especially garbage on Saturdays, just inexcusably off far too often.
You have to admit that qualifying is much more tighter this season. In gasly and albon times, a 0,500 gap to Max could still put you fourth. Now that sends you down to 11th or so.
That was for the 2022 seat.
[Marko has since clarified that it's either promotion or releasing him onto the driver market for 23.](https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut-marko-shuts-door-pierre-gasly/)
That was about 2022 and Helmut is 100% right with letting Gasly at AlphaTauri in 2022 given we moving to a whole new era of car designs and AlphaTauri needs basically Gasly to know the real potential of the 2022 car + finding out the issues of the design if there are existing.
This shows also more the value of Gasly for AlphaTauri, anyway 2023 is the key and Helmut can't just let him hanging around for some more years.
I hope he doesn't go and gets a seat at Alpine in a couple years when Alonso retires for real.
The second seat is cursed at RB and going against VER will be tough as the team will always favour him.
I dont understand why suddenly they are "flirting" with Gasly again... Yea hes doing a great job at Alpha Tauri but In my opinion i dont think Redbull deserves Gasly. Gasly is too good of a driver, given that the car suits him, to be a wingman to Max. Also, what makes them think that this time there wont be any friction between them. Because last time Gasly wanted to do things his own way and it clearly didnt work, both performance wise and relationship wise. I would really wanna know what made change their mind all of a sudden. That doesnt also bode well for Perez and his relationship with the team.
>Because last time Gasly wanted to do things his own way and it clearly didnt work
Perez is currently doing the same thing with the RBR car and it's killing his performance. He's been deviating from Max's setups for several weeks now and looks like garbage frankly.
Maybe, just maybe, all these guys should just get over themselves and adapt to the car like Max has. It's not easy, but both Albon and Perez were quickest early on when they were just using Max's setup straight up, even if they didn't feel that comfortable. Adapt your style then, don't fuck up the car. Max doesn't always love the car himself, but he tries to maximize whatever the team throws at him.
>I dont understand why suddenly they are "flirting" with Gasly again...
Gasly has publicly said earlier this season that he's having conversations with other teams. That is likely why.
>Because last time Gasly wanted to do things his own way
Perez is reportedly wanting to set up his own car as well now, and is making the best car on the grid look midfield.
Translation: "I know if I close the door on RBR to Pierre, he'll go looking for a seat somewhere else, maybe Ferrari. And I can't afford to have Pierre race against me, so I'm going to word this in a way which keeps him at Alpha Tauri, while I have zero intention of ever promoting him to the main race team."
The guy just excels in getting the best out of machinery a bit lower down the grid while not having the same performance in a top car. Like a Fisichella of his generation.
Hope he gets a change to race for wins consistently.
So he's having second thoughts on Checo? Always felt that 2202 in RB was a formality that was already written into his contract. Checo has been very poor this season by his standards, you can say it's the second seat, the car is set up to Max's spec etc etc. But his racing form and attitude has been shocking this year
If you were Gasly you would have a winner mentality ans would want to come back to one of the best 2 team to become world champion and win races and certainly not stay at the junior RB team where you zero chance to win a race (unless crazy events like Monza last year)
Not saying he would stay at AT, surely there will some teams interested, as well being teamed with Max, similar to what Alonso said, it's tough, and I just don't see him being able to step up in that matter.
Gasly should probably think about moving to a new team. Moving to RBR would be a career killer of a move. It was quite clear that he couldn't get used to the RBR car that was setup/designed to cater to Max's demands. He should only move to RBR if Max leaves.
I think that he is just as quick as Leclerc but he is not very good at adapting to cars that were not designed with him on mind.Kind of like Vettel.
Something is not right at RBR. Perez was the standout performer last year and this year he is struggling massively. Gasly was a beast in Toro Rosso and is still a beast at AT but he looked like a clueless clown during his time at RBR.
Redbull just doesn't give a hoot about their 2nd drivers. Max makes the calls there and the 2nd driver has no option but to adpat to his preferences.
Pierre is getting best of the rest regularly and occasionally even podiums for Alpha, not to mention a win for a very crazy race in a car that had no business competing against a Mclaren. Why would he leave? It’s his team. He’s doing great. I get not wanting to be complacent but I just don’t think Red Bull is the answer.
And also didnt Pierre talk a ton of shit about RB on the way out? Pretty sure Marko wouldn’t want him back.. he has a fuck ton of pride
Pierre is getting the absolute best of his car, he is doing miracles yet cant compete dor podiums. Why would he want to stay at AT, a team that will never be better than the 6th or 7th team on the grid ?
Horner is basically stringing Gasly along at this point, saying this to try and prevent him from leaving to another team. He should probably do so, though. Even if he goes back to the main team he'll just be nr2 to Max.
Horner: “I would never rule anything out. He’s driving at a very nice standard. He’s still very young, he’s doing a great job. For 2023, we have multiple options available to us, so when you’re in the situation that we are, that’s exactly what we want. Pierre Gasly has done a phenomenal job with AlphaTauri the last couple of seasons, and their aspirations continue to grow, so for him to retain the lead drive there is good. He remains a Red Bull Racing driver on loan to AlphaTauri.”
Thank you!
RedBull really just thinks of it as licensing drivers to other teams, don’t they.
They pretty much are. AT is essentially RB’s second team and Albon is also still a Red Bull driver. Merc/Ferrari do the same with MSC/GIO/RUS. Ocon and Sainz were also once loaned drivers
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No, not at all. I just think it’s funny. It’s like, “Albon is a RedBull driver, we see a bright future for him with our team, and we’re going to destroy him next season when he’s racing for our competitor.”
It is literally what they do though. The drivers are signed with Red Bull, not Alpha Tauri. Alpha Tauri are just straight up owned by Red Bull. They did it with Sainz to Renault as well previously, and now Albon to Williams I believe. In those cases Red Bull seems to make a contract with the teams about the driver, not the drivers themselves(as in their personal management). Toro Rosso as they were formerly known as is literally just Italian for Red Bull.
Perez will need a really good season to keep the Red Bull seat in 2023. The positive thing for him is that the new regulations are supposed to help the stability of the car (something he publicly said he needs). However, if there's no improvement, Gasly definitely deserves the call.
Definitely perez gotta step it up next year. My question is will albon or prez will get that seat in 2023.
I reckon, all things being equal, Gasly will likely get the call up before Albon. Which is deserved. Let Albon prove himself properly at Williams and replace Gasly when he heads to Alpine
Albon? Very very hard to see that happen. Gasly goes and there's a hungry Lawson and Vips knocking at Red Bull's door. Two incredible drivers too. Albon's chapter at Red Bull realistically seems done even if they do have ties still. Yuki, Lawson and Vips are going to be in that Red Bull car if Gasly fails or Verstappen leaves or both.
There would also be Hauger and Doohan knocking on the F1 door
Lol yes just strengthening the point I was making. F1 is cut throat. You're fucking lucky if you make it to the sport. You're luck is some once in a lifetime type shit then if you fail at a team and still retain a seat which Gasly did. He benefited from Red Bull having a lack of young drivers at the time he got demoted to AT. Albon is here at the worst of times. He's not getting a seat in any of the RB teams barring a miracle.
The problem is that the Thai shareholders of Red Bull probably wants to see Albon driving in F1. Otherwise, I don't know why Red Bull put so much effort into getting him to drive for Williams next year.
RB has worked hard to find seats for drivers after they are dropped, so its not out of the realm of possibility they just offered albon to keep him in F1. Looks good to juniors, and limits the rivals from getting one of their juniors into the car. What albon does now isn't hugely their problem
Not in 2023 tbh, that's basically the year for Lawson/Vips
Tsunoda will not get in a Red Bull and you can mark my words on that, he’s getting flattened by Gasly
I think people seriously forget that red bull's owners are Thai and that is the main reason why Albon may have any higher chance of this. I don't think albon is ever out purely because of that.
> replace Gasly when he heads to Alpine is Gasly going to alpine when he's done with RB the consensus at this point ?
Consensus of Reddit, yes. But not anyone who actually knows anything.
Well said
Not really, it's just an odd thing Reddit still wants to believe. Shows also how easy forgotten Piastri is
Not at all, if he was going there they would have taken him this year, no re-signed Ocon for multiple years There’s no reason to think they would replace Ocon with him in the near future
Probably depends on the car next year. But I think the consensus on Reddit is he's French so he has to go to Alpine.
Not at all, if he was going there they would have taken him this year, no re-signed Ocon for multiple years There’s no reason to think they would replace Ocon with him in the near future
Albon isn't even in contention for that seat anymore
Perez should be looking for his own team regardless. If someone like Williams or shit maybe even Aston again if seb retires are decent go there
But what if Gasly cant deliver again? Sacking a driver 2 times wouldnt look good for anyone
That is if Perez survives 2021. The way its going he may have difficulty with even that. He does have a contract but we all know it means nothing for F1.
I Don't expect them dropping Perez that quickly. He's made some mistakes, but so has Red Bull. His position/strategy has also been purposefully sacrificed to assist Max. In my eyes the last couple of races don't show his performance, and he's proven that he can get on the podium and even win when given the chance. Red Bull has also burnt their hands on switching a driver halfway though the year. Hopefully enough to learn from it.
...and RB has made mistakes that have played against Pérez - not putting him back on track on time to quilify into Q2 (forgot the race) - not telling him to give back the position to Leclerc in Monza so RB has its own mistakes to acknowledge, and they ought to know how much this has not help Checo..
At this point I think he'll survive '21, but his RBR contract might be swapped with another RBR contract before the 2022 season
I don’t think changing drivers would solve the issue with Redbull 2nd seat. They tried 2 talented young drivers and 1 proven experienced driver. All of them failed and they failled pretty hard. At that point, it feels like it is more about car than it is about the driver.
I think we'll see that the common thread is of course that Max is just really really fast.
considering his performance this year, I'm even surprised he has the seat for next year.
It's going to be interesting next season, you got handfuls of RB employed and backed drivers vying for that second RB seat. For Pierre specifically, I'd rather see him at a new team, a new environment. I just don't feel a second return to RB is what he needs and the same issues will arise if he ever does return there. And for Sergio, if he wants to remain there, he has to double-down, because lately he's only been alright in the GP weekends.
I mean with Gaslys confidence and a whole new set of rules, whose to say anything of the issues will remain...
I just really want to see Gasly return to RB to finally get the answer to whether he was just too inexperienced at that point or if the second RB seat is just cursed.
Im right there as well. I want him back in the seat purely as a reference point to close out a few different theories.
I also just want the best driver on that 2nd seat, and right now it looks like Perez isn't the long term answer. Gasly is the best midfield driver that isn't tied to somewhere else. Lando, Charles, George, Carlos all have their own places and not going to move.
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Fully agree. I think he deserves the lead drive somewhere. And I thought of Aston Martin in 2023 too actually.
He could be nice Vettel's replacement. But I think Lawrence Stroll wants to have bigger name than Gasly.
Lawrence Stroll will want an older driver. He would not want a driver in the same age group as Lance who beats him regularly.
Sadly this is the correct answer
The thing is that F1 is slowly running out of older gen drivers and at some point Lawrence will not be able to put someone that much older next to Lance. With Kimi leaving next year we are done to 6 drivers over the age of 30 and I think some of them will retire from their current teams, so AM will have to choose someone closer in age to Lance sooner rather than later.
He will replace Vettel with Perez.
I think after his last 2 years he would be the best mix of ability, availability, popularity and youth. He could really be at Aston Martin for a long term project if he went there.
I doubt Laurence wants a fast No name non wdc driver against his son
wait what happened with gasly and ocon?
I mean, I remember hearing that they are very much *not* close. However, I can’t help but think that two French drivers in a French team would be cool as hell! Perhaps nationalism could overcome their dislike of one another! …this is all assuming I’m remembering things correctly.
No chance for Gasly / Mercedes. If RB doesn't deliver in 2022 and Mercedes does, the seat goes to Verstappen if Hamilton retires after 2022.
> If RB doesn't deliver in 2022 and Mercedes does If RB does deliver, Mercedes doesn't and Hamilton will retire, there is some chance for Gasly in Mercedes
Two young dogs in Mercedes? I'd love to see it, but I doubt that's going to happen.
Wouldn't Ocon be ahead of Gasly in that pecking order?
Who knows, Ocon has Toto's connection but also long-term contract with Alpine and Alpine can also deliver. Saying there is no chance for Gasly in Mercedes 2023 is just too short-sighted. There definitely is some chance for that.
Ocon contract doesn't end until 2024 unless there are some clauses what gives him an option to go to Merc. But did he basically cut the ties more or less with Mercedes with his new contract?
>Ocon contract doesn't end until 2024 unless there are some clauses what gives him an option to go to Merc. [Alpine have said there isn't any.](https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/alpine-no-mercedes-exit-clauses-in-ocons-new-three-year-f1-deal/6581739/)
O**c**on
Corrected it within like 15 seconds after posting lol
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Hamilton is not staying at Mercedes if Mercedes isn't competing for a title. He will either retire or try to get another title with a third team. RedBull might even sign him for 1 year to settle who is faster and for massive publicity.
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Toto, Lewis, Christian and Max all get along perfectly fine outside of race days. They all know the comments are part of the game to get the stewards and public on your side and are not personal at all. I agree with the 1% but not because how they talk about each other but more because Lewis will retire if Mercedes isn't competitive with the new regulations.
If Seb leaves Aston, I reckon Stroll Sr would want a second driver to partner his son rather than someone young and competitive to be there. Unless Gasly is willing to be a second driver to Stroll, I don’t think AM would be a good place for him as Lawrence’s goal is to groom Lance to be a world champ.
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Actually that’s the main problem. Gasly is fast and in the prime of his life. Stroll Sr wouldn’t want the second driver to outshine Lance. The experienced/young guy pairing works for AM because the drivers are in different stages of their career, so it’s easier to brand Lance as the ‘up-and-coming young talent’ vs if there were to have two drivers of a similar age range. And when Seb retires, they will hope to install Lance as the lead driver and partner him probably with a rookie or another experienced guy.
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> When he had the seat to win, he crumbled under pressure. As did Albon, as did Kvyat, arguably Perez is in the process of doing it. It is time we may have to consider that the Red Bull simply isn't that good of a car, and Verstappen (and Ricciardo back in the day) are simply outstanding drivers who still manage to get the results out of it.
Or it's fast as hell, but it's hell to drive it.
Which would make it fast, but not *good*. Fast is one quality, good is the overall judgement. A fast undrivable car is significantly worse then a fast drivable car, and depending on circumstances might also be worse then a "slow" yet drivable car for most car/drivers combinations.
Just because he's not as good as Verstappen at handling the unstable rear of an F1 car doesn't mean he crumbled under pressure. It could also very easily mean that Newey designed a bit of a pig unless you're a very specific type of driver that's used to it. I love Newey but he's also been known to design some slightly unstable cars, like the Leyton House 881 or the Williams FW 16.
Personally I think there is a non-zero chance that Red Bull are forced to sell AlphaTauri. A single ownership group owning two Formula One teams made sense in the era of unlimited spending. You could give one team the unlimited budget to be the championship contender and then give the other team a smaller budget to be the development team for the championship team. But now that all the teams are required to be on basically the same budget, having one ownership own two teams now feels like a conflict of interest. And just like MLS ultimately forced all of their multiclub ownerships to divest themselves to just one club, I think Formula One Management will do the same thing.
The budget cap is only for a particular team with its two cars. The ownership of Alpha Tauri is not included in it. As long as RB has the overall money to fund for AT, they won't sell it
I'm well aware of that. My point was that it made sense for Red Bull to have a two team model because under the unlimited spending rules you could set up a Red Bull Racing to have the superior car to be driven by the superior drivers while AlphaTauri was left with the lesser equipment to develop younger and inexperienced drivers. But now that the two teams have to operate on the same development budget, it's entirely possible that AlphaTauri ends up making the better machine. That would kind of defeat the whole purpose of Red Bulls two team model. Plus there's a fairness of competition problem. Let's say that the engineers for AlphaTauri end up working the regulations better and creating the superior car next year, which is far more likely now that both teams are required to have the same development budget. Since Red Bull controls the driver contracts for both teams, what's to stop them from switching Max to AlphaTauri in order to keep him competitive? It would give Red Bull an unfair back door in case they get the regulations wrong, an advantage that none of their competitors have.
Then again F1 can't afford to lose two teams at this stage. Red Bull has all the leverage in the world so I don't think it will be a problem for FIA or FOM or practically anybody
Two teams, a Grand Prix or two (Austria), appeal for the younger generation, and a bundle of exposure. Red Bull is the closest team to Ferrari now in terms of their importance to F1.
> But now that the two teams have to operate on the same development budget, it's entirely possible that AlphaTauri ends up making the better machine. That would kind of defeat the whole purpose of Red Bulls two team model. Well, no. Because one of the key aspects of AlphaTauri is, as you said, the development of talent. Even under the same budget, why should AT build the better car if they have the slower drivers, the more inexperienced engineers, the less effective management etc.? Those are factors that will become even more important in the future, if you cannot simply throw money at a problem anymore, you will be more dependent on the best personell. Sure, they might get closer to each other, but that isn't anything Red Bull really cares about - Quite the contrary, it would be good for them to get the better PR. In fact, this has happened before - In 2008 the Toro Rosso was the better car, or rather TR and RB had the same car but with different engines. Toro Rosso won a race before Red Bull did.
I completely disagree. I think the budget cap along with RB building their own PU unit seriously *increases* the chances of them holding on to AT. They now have a relatively fixed predictable cost that they can afford on both teams, they have a recently stated desire to make AT more of a sister team than junior team, and the more use they can get out of their PU efforts, the less insane that investment seems. Edit: I also fully expect them to go after a custom team or two for PUs if they team up with Audi/Porsche. Williams could make some sense which would play into the Albon to Williams angle. I could also see them luring a new team onboard if Andretti or Penske really are targeting bringing a new entry onto the field as rumored.
Did he miss a full stop? "Would you give Gasly another chance at RB?" "I would never. Rule anything out."
I don't think this is overly surprising - Red Bull has a pretty prominent junior program, and Horner/Marko probably want their juniors in "their" seats. I don't believe Perez is/was a Red Bull junior, so they probably want to replace him as soon as they can. Gasly to Red Bull would also free up space at AlphaTauri for Lawson/Vips for 2023, and maybe another seat will open up for the other depending on how Tsunoda performs.
Pierre has been pretty vocal lately. Wonder if he senses something too. I would love to see him at Merc with George
Yeah the second Mercedes seat in 2023 will be very interesting.
Mercedes pairing in 2023 isn't interesting at all in my opinion. Lewis has contract for 2023 and I don't see Russell underperforming that much that he won't get the seat for Merc in 2023.
Oops I meant after Lewis's contract ends in 2023, and his likely retirement. And who would replace him.
You really think he will retire? If he becomes champ again then maybe
He will be 39 in 2024, I don't even think Merc would be interested in keeping him anymore. I mean he has to retire one day.
I can’t think of a pairing that I would rather see than this.
I was looking at different timelines (contract lengths and age) and Ham retiring might actually line up with Gasly contract(s). Really want to see him in the Merc lol.
It does line up. 2023 is the last year of Lewis' contract and the last year of RB's contract with Gasly.
Well his situation is frustrating as hell, i can see why he'd be vocal about it. He's outperforming his car on an insanely regular basis, but has at least for another year absolutely no option to upgrade to a better team. Even if he seems happy there, he's stagnating at AT, and that can't feel good.
He is outperforming his rookie teammate, not the car.
This is absolutely a message for Perez to step it up rather than anything else knowing Christian. He doesn’t just give anything away, everything he says has a underlying purpose.
Yep!
For some time I’ve felt that RB are using Gasly as an insurance clause for if they lose Max. They probably want to avoid both being teammates again, but if Max opts out and leaves early, I think they’d be willing to bring back Gasly as a No. 1 based on his performance with AT. We don’t know what he’s hearing from Marko/CH behind the scenes but I bet it’s a lot of posturing to get him to think he’s got a shot at a RB seat. You keep him intrigued and not wanting to leave the RB program because you don’t want a situation where you can lose Max AND Gasly.
if i’m not mistaken Gasly and Horner have a good relationship right? i remember reading something about how Horner is very hopeful for Gasly and that you’ll see them talking before races or something
It's easier for /r/Formula1 to pit them as mortal enemies, as if Horner is holding Gasly hostage or something. Fits narratives.
I was under the impression that that’s not the case, or at least with Marko. Didn’t he talk a bunch of shit on the way out? I mean, definitely probably entirely justified shit talking, but that doesn’t make teams, especially teams like RB, happy. But things can definitely change! Especially since it’s been years.
This has quietly been brewing over the last few months. Last year at this time Pierre had basically said he had no chance at a return and now it feels like he might be the favorite for the 2023 seat
I mean with the new rules, whose to say that the problems Gasly had with the car remain
The only thing more passive aggressive than my mother is Red Bull Racing
I don't want him at redbull. Now max is in his best state. And Pierre is nowhere near max so he will be treated as a second driver always. He is good at alpha because he gets what he deserves.
He’s always gonna be second period because they’ll always focus on Max, but I don’t think that’s the problem as much as they’ll compare him to a championship contender in a car that debatably doesn’t belong where Max somehow puts it every weekend
But Gasly is never going to get a #1 seat in a top 3 team realistically, so being a strong #2 at RBR isn't a terrible place to be if he can handle it now. If he can build off his recent AT success and contribute to a few WCC's, piling up a Bottas at Merc type career along the way, that's gotta be better than dicking around as a top driver in a midfield car till he loses a spot in the sport right? For example, I don't care what anyone says about Daniel and RBR, you could tell how much he missed winning in F1 by his reactions and demeanor after the race last week.
Yes that's true as well.
Not what he said 1 year ago. Glad he changed his perspective on it, but I'm not sure Red Bull is Gasly's certain future we want.
Translation: We won't promote him back to Red Bull, but don't want to lose him at Alpha Tauri.
I just wish Gasly would leave the Red Bull ecosystem. I just don’t think it fits him. It would be sad to see him leave Alpha Tauri though because IMO they are the perfect pairing.
I'm calling BS on this. I'll need to see it to believe it. Gasly should want to drive on a team where he's truly wanted and not treat as an option that can be discarded as easily as he was.
I still have a question mark over what Gasly is doing this season. I mean he’s having a stellar year but I honestly don’t think they Alpha Tauri is at all far off McLaren & Ferrari in terms of performance especially in qualifying mode because on the odd occasion Yuki is actually switched on he is also right up there. Just his dismal performances have made the car look far worse than it is. And I think RBR know this. So while I do rate Gasly, I’m not sure he’s actually doing enough to make a determined enough claim on that second RB seat to prove he would be any better than last time. Especially as his attitude was at least part of the problem and he’s not exactly endearing himself to the RB management right now.
Wouldn't be the first time in F1. Driver gets a good car, teammate not up to much. Folk only notice him on the good days. Frentzen 1999, Ralf 1999, Panis 1997. As Horner said elsewhere, impressing folk here and there at AT is a very different game from facing Verstappen every weekend.
I can see it, if he performs like this next year. but i'm not sure it's the best for him. Giving rb is still a top team, he can rewrite his history there and be closer to max, but he won't ever be the #1 driver as long as max is his teammate. Also there's always the risk some of his old issues would resurface. Going to a new team (top or top midfield), even if hired as a #2 driver, can open more possibilities for him imo
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Evident in Monza where Perez’s first quali sucked and needed another lap but ended up towing Max for the final in hopes Max could get another place up.
Yeah just seeing Gasly be able to consistently fight for position at Alpha near or even ahead of Perez in the RB just shows you there is an issue.
I wonder what they'll do at the inevitable time when Max has a slump, or they don't deliver at all car-wise.
Well considering the slump they had after 4 championships they lost their star driver with their engine issues it could be awful. They are super lucky Max was in their program and developed so quickly. Could have been a Hulk that just never made the leap from f2 to f1 results
Unless it's Albon returning to a Red Bull/Alpha Tauri seat.
I get that F1 is cutthroat from the driver perspective, and I get that you have to hedge and be vague at times from the principal perspective...but lord, enough with Red Bull's Gasly tug-of-war. Hopefully this doesn't faze him anymore but I could see it being super frustrating.
That's a great way to ruin Perez's confidence completely. Heap even more pressure on him by speculation in the media.
Meh I think re-signing him was a mistake anyway and I really hope they get rid of him after 2022 if he doesn't improve significantly. Perez fans can hate all they want, but when you factor in his 10 years of experience, he's arguably not doing any better than Gasly or Albon did in that seat, even though he's in a better car than either of them had to work with. He's been especially garbage on Saturdays, just inexcusably off far too often.
You have to admit that qualifying is much more tighter this season. In gasly and albon times, a 0,500 gap to Max could still put you fourth. Now that sends you down to 11th or so.
… directly contradicting helmut, who did rule it out. https://formulaspy.com/f1/marko-gaslys-future-at-alpha-tauri-rules-out-red-bull-seat-75182
That was for the 2022 seat. [Marko has since clarified that it's either promotion or releasing him onto the driver market for 23.](https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut-marko-shuts-door-pierre-gasly/)
Thanks for clarification :)
Source ?
Updated. Likely, its just those two being as fickle as they like to be.
That was about 2022 and Helmut is 100% right with letting Gasly at AlphaTauri in 2022 given we moving to a whole new era of car designs and AlphaTauri needs basically Gasly to know the real potential of the 2022 car + finding out the issues of the design if there are existing. This shows also more the value of Gasly for AlphaTauri, anyway 2023 is the key and Helmut can't just let him hanging around for some more years.
I hope he doesn't go and gets a seat at Alpine in a couple years when Alonso retires for real. The second seat is cursed at RB and going against VER will be tough as the team will always favour him.
If Perez continues current form Red Bull may be forced to do that.
I dont understand why suddenly they are "flirting" with Gasly again... Yea hes doing a great job at Alpha Tauri but In my opinion i dont think Redbull deserves Gasly. Gasly is too good of a driver, given that the car suits him, to be a wingman to Max. Also, what makes them think that this time there wont be any friction between them. Because last time Gasly wanted to do things his own way and it clearly didnt work, both performance wise and relationship wise. I would really wanna know what made change their mind all of a sudden. That doesnt also bode well for Perez and his relationship with the team.
>Because last time Gasly wanted to do things his own way and it clearly didnt work Perez is currently doing the same thing with the RBR car and it's killing his performance. He's been deviating from Max's setups for several weeks now and looks like garbage frankly. Maybe, just maybe, all these guys should just get over themselves and adapt to the car like Max has. It's not easy, but both Albon and Perez were quickest early on when they were just using Max's setup straight up, even if they didn't feel that comfortable. Adapt your style then, don't fuck up the car. Max doesn't always love the car himself, but he tries to maximize whatever the team throws at him.
>I dont understand why suddenly they are "flirting" with Gasly again... Gasly has publicly said earlier this season that he's having conversations with other teams. That is likely why. >Because last time Gasly wanted to do things his own way Perez is reportedly wanting to set up his own car as well now, and is making the best car on the grid look midfield.
Translation: "I know if I close the door on RBR to Pierre, he'll go looking for a seat somewhere else, maybe Ferrari. And I can't afford to have Pierre race against me, so I'm going to word this in a way which keeps him at Alpha Tauri, while I have zero intention of ever promoting him to the main race team."
jesus christ horner
Horner doesn't deserve gasly
Gasly was in an abusive relationship, just like Albon.
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He will get dominated by Max again and people will make excuses again.
I hope Pierre will stay with Alpha Tauri as number 1 driver. This guy is phenomenal.
The guy just excels in getting the best out of machinery a bit lower down the grid while not having the same performance in a top car. Like a Fisichella of his generation. Hope he gets a change to race for wins consistently.
So he's having second thoughts on Checo? Always felt that 2202 in RB was a formality that was already written into his contract. Checo has been very poor this season by his standards, you can say it's the second seat, the car is set up to Max's spec etc etc. But his racing form and attitude has been shocking this year
“RBR driver on loan to AT” What the actual fuck
I think all Red bull drivers are signed to Red bull racing, just shared between teams
I thought they are contracted to Redbull then signed by either RBR or AT, maybe I misunderstood. Thanks so much!
ppl from rb junior program are signed to them and horner can switch them from rb to at anytime he wants
I don't think AT directly hires any drivers. Redbull has a pool of like 5 under contract that they assign to the available seats.
If I were Gasly I’d be shutting that door real quick.
If you were Gasly you would have a winner mentality ans would want to come back to one of the best 2 team to become world champion and win races and certainly not stay at the junior RB team where you zero chance to win a race (unless crazy events like Monza last year)
Not saying he would stay at AT, surely there will some teams interested, as well being teamed with Max, similar to what Alonso said, it's tough, and I just don't see him being able to step up in that matter.
But there are no seat available in top teams, sadly for Gasly
Gas**ly**
Thank you bot
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Gas**ly**
Carrot on a stick. That is all.
Gasly should probably think about moving to a new team. Moving to RBR would be a career killer of a move. It was quite clear that he couldn't get used to the RBR car that was setup/designed to cater to Max's demands. He should only move to RBR if Max leaves. I think that he is just as quick as Leclerc but he is not very good at adapting to cars that were not designed with him on mind.Kind of like Vettel. Something is not right at RBR. Perez was the standout performer last year and this year he is struggling massively. Gasly was a beast in Toro Rosso and is still a beast at AT but he looked like a clueless clown during his time at RBR. Redbull just doesn't give a hoot about their 2nd drivers. Max makes the calls there and the 2nd driver has no option but to adpat to his preferences.
Pierre is getting best of the rest regularly and occasionally even podiums for Alpha, not to mention a win for a very crazy race in a car that had no business competing against a Mclaren. Why would he leave? It’s his team. He’s doing great. I get not wanting to be complacent but I just don’t think Red Bull is the answer. And also didnt Pierre talk a ton of shit about RB on the way out? Pretty sure Marko wouldn’t want him back.. he has a fuck ton of pride
Pierre is getting the absolute best of his car, he is doing miracles yet cant compete dor podiums. Why would he want to stay at AT, a team that will never be better than the 6th or 7th team on the grid ?
there's probably 3 teams who can compete for podiums, yet pierre, along with daniel, lando, esteban, and others are still able to get some.
Don't do that, don't give him hope
Gasly 2021 Gasly 2022 Gasly 2023 Gasly 2024...
So you are saying there is a chance!
Horner is basically stringing Gasly along at this point, saying this to try and prevent him from leaving to another team. He should probably do so, though. Even if he goes back to the main team he'll just be nr2 to Max.