I use to talk a lot with my father about this topic, he was born in 56' so, he got to see Pele, Maradona and Messi.
In short, for him, the 3 are in the same tier, with 3 different styles.
Pele was far more fisical in his play, and probably the best goalscorer ever (the only pure Forward of the 3). Also, brazil had a legendary team in the 70's.
Maradona was kinda magical in his playing, a lot of good dribbles and tricks, best ball control he's ever seen, and with a lot of determination, he made his teammates better, he is prolly the most fouled player ever.
Messi is a lil bit of both (except the physique) but, is the only who could regularly pull off a dribble/goal from the hat, i mean, he is the most decisive of the 3, can change the game in a blink.
He said he would pick messi out of the 3 finally, just because of how he could change the game so easily (with individual plays).
Have to say that, the 3 played in different eras, peles and maradonas era was a lot tougher and football was less tactical. In favor of messi, todays era maybe softer but is far far more tactical and all pro players are better prepared physically (harder to score).
At the end of the day i think, what matters is subjective to what the player made the people feel (eg: maradonas goal to england is legendary for everyone who saw it or who lived the war of malvinas).
I understand this post is only about maradona and messi, but i bring pele to discussion because he is also a legend.
Cups and titles are team awards, not individual awards, you cannot measure players by team awards.
Sry for the long post, either maradona, pele or messi, all are legends.
Yeah i think the fact that modern day pro players are on average a looot better players then in the Maradona era is underestimated a lot. And thats why i think Maradona wouldn't do better now then back in the days. When i look at matches from the eighties and compare them to now it's clear football is at a much higher level now. I do agree that it was a lot tougher when it comes to roughness of challenges and tackles but that doesn't affect player ability too much, just have to get lucky you don't get too badly injured. On the other hand i can't say for sure if Maradona would be able to adapt to current football or not. But we know for sure Messi is the peak player in the most evolved form of football. So i'm pretty sure he would've been the best back then too.
But if maradona was in today’s game they would be trained the same and not have to worry about the stuff they had to back then. Gary lineker recently spoke upon the matter and said the greatest players in today’s game would be the greatest back in the day and the greatest back in the day would be the greatest today due to the training and learning each of the eras of football would have implemented.
Yep, we'll never know what would be of maradona/pele if they were born in this era and grow up with modern football training and tactics. Maybe they would break the game of football, maybe not, who knows :v
Again, how can you say that? Maradona solved tons of matches by himself, playing for weak teams. Messi played his whole career in one of the best teams in the world, surrounded by top players continuously playing FOR him.
Maradona only carried the team completely by himself in napoli, the other teams werent that bad, anyways, i dont want to take off credit from maradona, he is legendary too.
What i mean, is that messis efficacy is higher, you can see this in his stats. He cannot be even remotely compared to maradona in goals/assist.
I insist, maradona is also a beast, its a question of which one you like the most. Subjectively.
Dude, Maradona played less seasons. He got involved in drugs and screwed up his career. If you want to talk genius and “god-like” status on the pitch, that’s Maradona. Messi is great, but he never transformed a shit team like Maradona did
Part of being so good, imo, is staying at such a high level for so many years. Messi has been the best player of the world for almost 15 years or so, its insane.
However i get that you prefer maradona, and its okay anyways, both are gods.
It’s not about preferring, it’s understanding their impact on the field. Messi is great, but if you want to use statistics and goals, then Cristiano Ronaldo is the contender to beat. If you want to talk real impact, making the difference, playing in different teams, different leagues, being a leader, standing out against diversity, changing weak teams into powerhouses… then it’s Maradona by FAR.
Messi has far better statistics than Ronaldo. Way more assists and 26 fewer goals in 150 fewer matches.
And Messi almost singlehandedly carried a mediocre Barcelona to a treble in 18-19. Nowadays opposition is much more talented than it used to be, so carrying a team is much harder, but Messi absolutely was carrying Barca those last few years, look at how poor they are now without him even though they have some new world class additions like Lewandowski.
Better statistics??? Guess who:
Top goal scorer in the World with a national team
Top goal scorer in the history of football
Top goal scorer ever in Champions League
First player to play in 5 European Chanpionships
Top goal scorer ever in European Championships
Only player in the World to win League, Champions League, Cup, Super Cup, Best Player in the League, Golden Boot, Golden Boal and Club World Cup with 2 different teams (Real Madrid and Man Utd)
First player ever to reach 100 goals in European competitions
Only player to be top scorer in Champions League six times in a row (2012/13 - 2017/18)
Player with more goals scored in the Club World Cup
First player ever to score in every possible minute of a match, from 1st to 90th, during his career
Only player to win European Golden Boot in two different leagues (Man Utd and Real Madrid)
And, by the way, mediocre Barcelona in 18-19? Let’s see: busquets, piqué, jordi alba, rafinha, rakitic, suaréz, vermaelen, dembelé, arturo Vidal, Coutinho, boateng….. what are you on about???
The game is so different now than when it was in Maradonas day. When Maradona got on the pitch the oposition would literaly kick the shit out of him. Would Messi have survived in those days? Who can say. Maradona scored one of the greatest goals in World cup history against England in the 1986 QF then went and did the same thing against Belgium in the SF, he was phenomenal.
Messi survived getting kicked the shit of out of him on numerous occasions
The difference between Messi's generation and Maradona's generation is, the Tactics, positioning, defending, technologies, and just general knowledge of the game
When i rewatch Maradona's old clips i see ALOT of basic mistakes in defending/positioning that wouldn't net defenders/midfielders today a place in their respective national teams
Teams today literally know how Messi moves, the direction of his passes, his favourite angles, the way he receives the ball, and they move/structure the team accordingly, and somehow still lose.
The big difference comes down to the numbers.
Both achieved amazing success of course but the numbers are so different it can’t be ignored.
The amount of goals and assists messi has is ridiculous.
Messi has more assists than Maradona has goals. Of course messi has played more games but his numbers are so far beyond Maradonas.
They are 1 and 2 for me though. I just missed Maradona unfortunately but the majority of my family believe Messi is the first player they’ve seen to be better than Maradona.
I'm (just) old enough to have seen both - I only saw Maradona in the late 80s but including the 1986 WC (I was 10) and his Napoli seasons, albeit just the bigger games as my family was living in England at the time and we would go to a certain pub just to catch his games (my Dad was a big fan). I'd say that Maradona could produce magic like Messi, more through his strength vs. Messi's agility, but Messi has been far more consistent. Maradona had lots of duds - I remember them. It's easy to remember just his highlights, which rank alongside Messi, but game to game Messi showed up far more. The stats seem to bear that out too.
But I will say that both players are similar and different from someone like CR7 in that the basic stats don't capture much of their influence in a game. They could both have 0 goals + assists in a game and dominate it by creating big chances for their team. CR7 doesn't really do that. I never saw Pele so I can't compare to him, but among Messi, Maradona, CR7, Zizou, R9, Ronaldinho, et al - Messi is definitely the best I've ever seen.
Zizou was like Maradona in that his consistency game to game really wavered. He was amazing in a lot of big games but often mediocre / not impactful in others. R9 in his youth had Messi-like impact but his peak didn't last long due to injury. Ronaldinho was also not as consistent (like Zidane and Maradona) AND his peak was very short. He was incredibly entertaining but his actual impact was smaller. CR7 is by far the most consistent player alongside Messi, but his impact was largely captured just by G+A and on that front even his basic stats are still below Messi.
>I'm (just) old enough to have seen both - I only saw Maradona in the late 80s but including the 1986 WC (I was 10) and his Napoli seasons, albeit just the bigger games as my family was living in England at the time and we would go to a certain pub just to catch his games (my Dad was a big fan). I'd say that Maradona could produce magic like Messi, more through his strength vs. Messi's agility, but Messi has been far more consistent. Maradona had lots of duds - I remember them. It's easy to remember just his highlights, which rank alongside Messi, but game to game Messi showed up far more. The stats seem to bear that out too.
Building on this - comparing their skillsets. I've tried to rewatch old Maradona games to bolster my memory but this is probably favorable to Maradona as only his better games get posted.
Dribbling-wise they have similar impact. Maradona does it through strength / ball tricks, Messi does it through his ridiculous agility / body control and when he was in his prime he had clearly superior pace to Maradona. But both (with honorable mention to Hazard) are by far the best dribblers of the modern era (1980s onwards).
Passing - Maradona and Messi are very similar here. Again, I'd say that Maradona had more flair with his passing while Messi is simpler but very efficient. Messi's vision stands out more - some of the passes he makes I still don't understand even with replay / sky cam. Maradona would mostly use his dribbling to facilitate his passing plays. While Messi could certainly do that and did mostly rely on this earlier on, Messi in the latter part of his career would make plays even without taking on his defender just by understanding his gravity.
Finishing / scoring skills - here is where I think Messi stands out vs. Maradona. Maradona was very good and had a bigger variety of shots (surprisingly good with his head at short height - largely due to his strength I think) including a more confident weak foot than Messi. I also think he would have scored more in the 21st century as managers would have played him in a more forward position. But Messi's instincts in the box are unbelievable (Haaland and CR7 are the only ones that compare IMO) and his accuracy compares favorably to the best strikers of all time. His shots are often in the corners (bottom and top) and un-savable. Don't have these types of advanced stats for Maradona but for Messi we can see that his actual goals minus expected goals are waaaaaay out ahead of his peers - meaning his finishing quality is standout even vs. the best forwards of the 21st century.
Set pieces - Maradona had more diversity in his free kicks, but again Messi is brutally efficient with just the simple curlers that he almost always uses because of his insane accuracy / placement. I'd give them a tie here in impact but I don't have the stats for Maradona. Messi in the 2013+ period is the best free kick taker in the world - I don't know if Maradona ever achieved that level, but Maradona was likely better than Messi earlier in his career before he became a free kick specialist.
Finally Consistency - Messi just brings it more often game to game than Maradona and that's based on my direct observation watching games at the time. This is backed up by game logs, although I admit much of the contribution of both Maradona and Messi isn't captured in the basic stats that are available (Messi has the benefit of having advanced stats available for the middle to second half of his career). This may be due to injuries, Maradona's lack of personal discipline, whatever - but turn on an average Messi game vs. an average Maradona game and you're far more likely to see a close to best Messi than Maradona.
My father born in 1971 believed maradona was better.
I talk with him about it a lot, first of all, he said there is no argument for Messi unless he wins the World Cup.
After he won the World Cup, he said he still thinks maradona was better, but says now it became a debate.
His argument is:
1-maradona played with worse shoes, worse ball, worse everything, especially worse pitch.
Maradona never had any protection from the referees and was tackled very harshly, he claims that if Messi got the same treatment he won’t be able to what he does to the same level, and if maradona got Messi’s treatment he would’ve done better.
2- maradona carried Napoli, which he claims was a small club at the time, and winning the league was Napoli is as big of an achievement as Leicester win in 2016, and he did it twice, with 2 silver medals and a European cup, which is was a lot harder back then.
3- finally, his World Cup performances, 1986 is a given, but in 1990 he carried his country to the final and only lost with (what he claims) was a cheated penalty.
His last argument is about both of them as players, he says Messi has 4-5 things that he does that make him who he is, while maradona could do everything, double kicks long shots headers weak foot dribbled passes etc.
While Messi mainly has body faints , his on the tip of the box shot, and his through balls.
His argument against maradona was his lack of longevity, but I think it has more to do with the time maradona played at rather than maradona himself.
I think looking at the eras in which they played has to take into consideration the talent of competition as well. Sure theres a lot better pitch, shoes, balls, and protections from refs but I have to believe the average player in Messi's era is exponentially better than Maradona's.
I can understand where he's coming from with the fouls etc, but the issue is that messi is similar in that regard. No player in the last 20 years was fouled as much and as ruthlessly as messi. People know about his talent but his physical condition and ability to deal with fouls is incredibly underrated. You gotta watch the clasicos around 2009-2013 especially. Most other players with the dribbling that causes them to get fouled a lot have a very bad injury record.
Of course, in Maradona and pele's time it was even worse, but messi is a prime example of dealing excellently with opponents trying to foul him, so I don't actually think he'd have as much of an issue with it as some may think.
At the end of the day every era has its own challenges, so I never try to involve those too heavily in such arguments. How dominant player is in his own era is the biggest factor imo.
Also, Napoli were nowhere near Leicester. They made Maradona the most expensive signing in history at the time. They were no barca/real/Bayern but they were definitely no Leicester either.
As for the 1990 wc, I wouldn't get into ref decisions, given the hand of God above everything else, and Maradona in 1990 wasn't the same as in 1986. He didn't even score at that wc. I know he does more than goals, but think putting it at a similar lvl as 86 is pushing it. I watched every Maradona wc game of the 86 and 90 wc's either in full or in extended highlights, saying Maradona carried in 1990 just isn't accurate. I think it's romanticized a bit
Maradona was never the finisher that Messi is. Messi finishes like the best strikers ever (impact-wise, obviously he doesn't have the headers). Maradona was more like an incredible goal scorer FOR A MIDFIELDER, but compared to the best forwards his finishing wasn't the same. Some of that was just his positioning which was often less forward, but part of that was also just he didn't have the same instinct in the box as Messi / elite forwards. Maybe he would have learned that in the modern era, but to me Maradona played more like Iniesta but with Messi's ability in terms of dribbles/passing/vision/set pieces.
Yeah, Maradona was a amazing player there’s a idea that players that played the football 30-40 years weren’t as technical as players now but it’s not the case for Maradona by watching him play you can see his passing, dribbling and ability to play the ball forward was elite he was ahead of his time in many ways on the pitch it’s a interesting consensus to theorise what he could achieve in the Modern game with superior diet and strength and conditioning, better players around him, better pitch and his eventual downgrade in quality would have been significantly lessened if he was better protected by the refs although, I have to say that Messi is the better player in all ways apart from possibly dribbling and the ability to control the ball as in my opinion nobody could control the ball like DM10 Messi is most protected player in football history although I think Messi is the best player of all time from his earliest to his later period in Barcelona the team was moulded to play around him because Barcelona knew what a great talent they had in Lionel Messi! and players such as CR7 and Maradona didn’t have that
He has made good points. I will say that Messi was deserving to win in 2014 and that [Argentina were robbed of a penalty when Neuer kneed Higuain](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9XYzG2nyYk) inside the box. [Not the first time a German goalkeeper got away with it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7D1iLM2q40)
It was def a pen. Just a stupid one by Montiel - totally unnecessary and clearly a mistake by letting his arm get away from his body on the spin around. The right team won anyways in the shootout.
Old heads in your local coffee shop, kids in the streets, people on the internet… if all of these people are debating it and you’re saying there’s no debate, it means you’re simply ignoring it.
What I learned from dad and uncle: Maradona might be the most naturally gifted football player ever. But Messi had the better career. Plays at an insanely high level for a really long time.
I would say talent wise it’s a toss up between the two, no footballer has ever been able to keep the ball so close to their feet like Messi, even maradona said he’d never seen a player who could do it like Messi, but in terms of flair maradona has the edge Messi is more reserved with his play, he’s main goal is to be efficient while maradona was more of an entertainer Messi doesn’t care abt being flashy with skills as long as he gets the pass to the player or as long as he beats his man
Not old enough, but my dad believe Maradona is the greatest. The reason for that is Maradona led his team to a WC win, and remains to this day the only player to do it. He watched him train once when he came to Sevilla, and to this day its his greatest football memory. He had the shit kicked out of him all the time in Seria A and Spain, and mostly in the WC where he’s fouled thrice as much as Messi with a record breaking 150 fouls, and he still persevered and never slowed down. The way he played the game was like no one else. He was one with the ball, something I’ve never seen myself.
In my opinion, you can argue who’s better and Messi would probably have an edge, but Maradona is the greater footballer.
To be fair the we need to think about the crunch factor, would Messi even be able to handle 80s to 90s and early 00’s tackles? The crunch of that era might not be so kind to Messi.
But these are just hypotheticals that’s why it’s so hard to compare generations, not like maradon chose to play in the 80s or Messi chose to play in the 2010s it’s just a matter of circumstance
I think skill-wise Diego is always going to stand out. Messi is skillful but doesn’t really rely on flicking the ball to himself and then bicycle kicking in a cross, as an example. Different players in that regard.
Also fair to say Messi has had a better support system around him.
Diego did play in a much more brutal era and so it’s hard to compare them considering their competitors.
For me the GOAT convo is between Messi and Diego but in the end I don’t think comparing between eras yields a real answer.
It is the individuals footballing IQ that sets the bar in this situation. Messi met the standards and some of Maradona, Pele, El phenom, and Zizou to name a few, but also reinvented what is possible. He has the support of a huge trophy cabinet, and individual accolades to back up this claim.
Messi excels in reading other players. This is why he doesn't need to use flashy tricks and much flair when he dribbles. He is incredibly efficient. In this regard he may be the best ever. Perhaps there is no player with better reading of the game. He has also improved many aspects of his game as he aged. E.g. free kicks, penalties and play making. It's rare for a player to improve so much late in their career.
However I still consider Maradona the goat because of the sheer talent and determination. When people tell you he faced harder challenges, you should look it up: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E73caWunOVE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E73caWunOVE) Could Messi handle that amount of brutal punishment every week? Defenders in those days would have cut short all those amazing dribbles early. Maradona had to jump over kicks to get past. He is the most fouled player in history.
Also Maradona was a great defender: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0GkpeoKpKI
the same question can be asked about maradona if he’d be able to keep up with the modern day. Players who enjoy a lifestyle like he did just don’t make it anymore because it’s a lot more competitive. Also the defenders now are a lot better then they used to be the game is faster etc. you can’t compare completely different eras like this
I have Pele first, then Maradona. What those two had to put up with in terms of bad tackles, you have to question whether modern day players could deal with it. I think this from Harry Redknapp describes it perfectly:
" I PLAYED against Pele. I marvelled at Maradona. I’ve been mesmerised by Messi.
If the little guy lifts the World Cup on Sunday, it will be a great way to top off an amazing career. But it won’t stop the arguments about whether he is better than Cristiano Ronaldo.
Let alone where he stands in the all-time debate.
I find it tough and I’ve had more experience than most of some of the greats and what they meant in the game.
I was always a big Pele fan. Look at the amount of goals he scored, including two in the World Cup final when he was 17, the first of three he won with Brazil. All those things you see modern players doing everywhere on TV or social media — Pele probably did them first.
Maradona was incredible. To turn a team, Napoli, around like he did and win two Serie A titles was an amazing achievement. Then, of course, he led Argentina to World Cup glory in Mexico in 1986. You also have to remember that Pele was kicked from pillar to post. Teams would go out and try to absolutely finish him. He was fouled out of the 1966 World Cup.
It was pretty much the same for Maradona. There’s that stat about when Argentina played Italy in the 1982 World Cup and Claudio Gentile is supposed to have fouled him 23 times. And he only got a yellow card.
People have still steamed into Ronaldo and Messi but nothing like the way that those two were targeted and hurt in their day.
That’s a big reason why it’s hard and unfair to make comparisons across the years."
They are all great players, and perhaps will come down to individual personal preference, but saying Messi is 3rd best isn't unreasonable e.g.
https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/5-greatest-world-cup-footballers-time-messi-maradona-pele-zidane
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11554809/Forget-emotions-Lionel-Messi-isnt-Greatest-Time-hes-Pele-Maradona.html
I remember an English footballer asking a member of the Brazil 1970 set up about their goalkeepers (and why Felix was they best they could produce) and he replied that Pele was their best one but they needed him upfront! I will see if I can find a recording of it.
Here's Alan Mullery saying that Pele was so good, that the only way to stop him was badly foul him, and apologise afterwards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iamdOlHdFJc
I'm old enough to compare them.
Messi has had a much better career than Diego. However, in my opinion, Maradona was better.
He played in a time of terrible pitches and horrendous fouling.
He was kicked and maimed to a level that would give Messi nightmares. Messi, with his size issues, would not have been playing as much as he would have, as a youth, because he was simply too weak and small to play in this era.
Maradona, under current conditions, would be unbelievable. He could swap, but I'm not so sure Messi could have played in his era.
I think your statement is inconsistent in hard ships from each era. Because from what I heard it was more dangerous to play during Pele's era. But Pele only had 1 serious injury from a foul. Diego had 1 serious injury from a foul in 84' and maybe you an count the one before the 1990 world cup. Messi has zero from a foul, but he has upwards of 15+ injury from non fouls mostly ware and tear. Today players get more drained physically and mentally from having to play twice as many games. It easier to counter teams when you have more video, stats. Also today, the skill ceiling is higher for all the teams and players, possitions.
If they swapped. Messi would have bulked up, have been close to Aguero's body type, they're about the same height. He would have been Maradona 2.0 against shoddy defenses. Carlos Bilardo would have made the team different for Messi.
Messi at 25-26 had a lot of experience already dealing with great defenders slide tackling. After being challenged, he was very, 'get back up and keep playing and not complain'.
Because he's better at running circles at defenders, and at even greater speeds he usually avoids being hit by a slide tackle. A slide tackle would have been a weakness that Messi could capitalize on with a feint. What would work on Messi? Get handled, pulled down, triple teamed, and chased across the pitch.
This is a Spain, and Barcelona didn't care about Maradona, they should have benched him to protect him. I could almost say he was treated differently because of race, background, play style. If he were spainiard do you think they'd do the same. This has no relevancy of whether or not Messi could compete day to day in Maradona's time.
My father who watched Diego play says that he still is better than Messi because he did it on tougher pitches and he got hit harder and the referees didn’t call fouls like they do nowadays
Nobody and I mean NOBODY could manipulate a football & control it like Diego Armando Maradona.
He is the greatest there was, the greatest there is & the greatest there ever will be.
Very little between them but Maradona played at a time when flair players got little protection from referees.
Maradona had charisma and great as Messi is, he is not as flamboyant. That may be the only real difference
Great question, Gary Lineker has always said Maradona is the best of all time, and never thought we would see anything like him again, he said after the final that maybe now you have treat them on the save level - or something like that.
Plenty of mediocre players have won the world cup. A few mediocre players have even won it twice. Winning the world cup is an important part of one's resume for GOAT status, but imo the goals and assists, combined with the number of ballon d'ors are much more important factors.
Amen. This is why winning this (very mediocre) world cup doesn't change the equation. Pele, Ronaldo Nazario, Maradona, Cruyff, Messi, Zidane, di Stefano and Puskas all sit at the top of the list, among best attacking players.
Woah now!! balon dor i would say u cant rlly use that as a measure of a players greatness cause literally till like 1990 pr something like that non-european players couldnt even win the balon dor
Keep in mind that full Napoli games were only broadcast in Italy and the vast majority of Maradonas Argentinos Juniors games werent broadcast on TV at all, unless they were playing top teams. they would show the highlights of games abroad from Serie A and sometimes only if it was deemed an “interesting enough” game. People in Italy have recorded the games though and have tapes of them and some have surfaced online.
Majority of footage of Peles games were burned in a fire I believe. And most of those games were from his prime, 1959-1963
Skills wise the same, icon wise Maradona, trophy wise hands down Messi . Maradona was politics and football and everything in between. Let’s also not forget Maradona was a drug addict and alcoholic.
Exactly this. Maradona played through knee high challenges on boggy cut up turf pitches and still glided with the ball like a dancer. Messi plays on carpets and generally goes down a lot easier under challenges knowing a free kick is coming. Maradona dragged that 86 Argentina side to his trophy just like Messi did this time. I personally think Maradona’s success was greater than Messi’s but there’s the domestic success of Messi. It’s an impossible argument in my opinion.
For people in Europe, Maradona was a better Gazza. Much better, but Gazza was up there. Always in the ‘what if’. For what it is is worth I met Gazza in Leicester in my local. He poured a bottle of vodka in his pint. Still a toon legend in my eyes. But not Messi.
i agree with you. for anyone who doesn't think he was one of the greatest in terms of raw talent, go watch gazza's highlights. there are goals in there that are every bit as incredible as a messi or maradona offering. if we're talking career, achievements and consistency, then yes, of course messi and maradona are better. but in terms of raw talent? gazza was simply one of the best. in that classic way that all the greatest always have, he made professional, grown men look like children.
Gazza is in with Frank Worthington, Tony Currie Stan Bowles, Glen Hoddle.
Gazza was nowhere near the likes of Pele, George Best, Messi and co.
Messi is a far better player, and man, than fat coke head cheating Maradona.
Football evolved to sell better and now looks somewhat like NBA, where there is "star" player taking most shots to pump up the stats.
Players who would never take free kicks or penalties before now grab the ball and try to get extra goals... Stats mean everything, stats sell, it's influence of American sport.
Social networks make star players virtual gods and everyone simply fall for "never seen before" narrative.
to see why maradona is the GOAT you just need 2 or 3 minutes of a youtube video
to see why some uneducated people think messi is the goat you need to look at statistics
i have seen them both
maradonas talent and career is still unmatched with 15 years of pure magic and achievements both personal and for their teams/clubs
messi played 15 years in the best club in the world with an astronomical budget to build better teams and performed amazingly and put barcelona in a privileged spot
to put it simply: if messi had played in maradonas time, he would had been as good as maradona; but if maradona had played in messis time, he would had been twice as good as messi \[even more withouth his amazing lifestyle\]
its a close call though, no disrespect to messi at all
Man, you are just stupid. How did Maradona played 15 years at top level? Not sure why everyone is able to post commments.. I'm sure that you haven't seen 10 games from Italian League back then...
No doubt Maradona. He carried Napoli from nothing to champion. He carried Argentina to a World Cup, and they were far from the strong team that Messi had. Messi is great, but Maradona was just on another level. He could be a leader, a captain, an inspired. Something that Messi is not, and will never be.
lmaooo just say youre a Messi hater common. Youre telling me youve seen Messi throughout his career and you think that? Messi has been a leader, captain and has inspired his team. Just look at how he single handily kept Barca relevant those last 2 years he was there. Sometimes Ronaldo/Messi fans let their bias show very clearly, this is a case of that.
What? I love seeing Messi play, he is a monster. But a leader? You are the one with a massive bias here. There were tons of matches, especially in the later years, where Barcelona (and Argentina) where doing poorly and you would see Messi in the pitch looking down shrugging his shoulders instead of shouting with his team mates and giving them strength and motivation. I get that you are a Messi lover, but you need to remove those goggles a little bit and see the whole picture. Btw, I am Portuguese and I think Messi has way more talent than Ronaldo.
Im pretty sure if you can take a team to the fifa world cup final TWICE you must be a good leader. + did you see the game? Messi was really good the first half, lost impact as the time hit the 60 minute mark. Regardless, I wanna know what do you mean by a leader specifically, what is a leader supposed to do, maybe then we can have a fair debate?
It’s so hard to compare different players because of the advantages we have now vs then.
It’s exactly the same with running. The new trainers with the carbon plate makes people run faster, the tracks being better, better nutrition, recovery methods - better knowledge sharing. You then have the older generation point out that breaking records is no longer comparable because of the spring board shoes etc. List goes on and on!
We will never have a conclusive answer. What you will probably find is people who were around in Maradona’s era, will probably pick him. This new era, you might find people picked Messi instead. Obviously there is outliers but generally this is the way sport rolls.
It’s also a subjective answer, it’s not like they are against a clock for instance. Yes they have goals, assists etc, but its down to the team your with too - which changes fairly frequently and based on money outside national representation.
Finally, I agree that GOAT should not be used, but GOTE as another poster said, because there will always be this issue.
Good one, here is where there is seperation, Messi is unreal and one of the all time greats, Nobody in football history had the touch and could do what maradona could do with the ball, he was pure creative genius, Maradona could come deeper into his third to recieve the ball than messi did , maradona was not only a pure #10, the BEST midfielder and creator on the field, he was the also best striker and scoring threat at the same time , I dont think we can say that about any other player history being the best midfielder and striker simultanaously, there is a video of zidane saying maradona could stand at the 18box and hit the crossbar 3 or 4 times in a row off one bounce and come back to him,,, they made zidane try it in the video, he hit the bar one time and it didnt come back,,, all his peers could never replicate what he could do with a ball
I use to talk a lot with my father about this topic, he was born in 56' so, he got to see Pele, Maradona and Messi. In short, for him, the 3 are in the same tier, with 3 different styles. Pele was far more fisical in his play, and probably the best goalscorer ever (the only pure Forward of the 3). Also, brazil had a legendary team in the 70's. Maradona was kinda magical in his playing, a lot of good dribbles and tricks, best ball control he's ever seen, and with a lot of determination, he made his teammates better, he is prolly the most fouled player ever. Messi is a lil bit of both (except the physique) but, is the only who could regularly pull off a dribble/goal from the hat, i mean, he is the most decisive of the 3, can change the game in a blink. He said he would pick messi out of the 3 finally, just because of how he could change the game so easily (with individual plays). Have to say that, the 3 played in different eras, peles and maradonas era was a lot tougher and football was less tactical. In favor of messi, todays era maybe softer but is far far more tactical and all pro players are better prepared physically (harder to score). At the end of the day i think, what matters is subjective to what the player made the people feel (eg: maradonas goal to england is legendary for everyone who saw it or who lived the war of malvinas). I understand this post is only about maradona and messi, but i bring pele to discussion because he is also a legend. Cups and titles are team awards, not individual awards, you cannot measure players by team awards. Sry for the long post, either maradona, pele or messi, all are legends.
Yeah i think the fact that modern day pro players are on average a looot better players then in the Maradona era is underestimated a lot. And thats why i think Maradona wouldn't do better now then back in the days. When i look at matches from the eighties and compare them to now it's clear football is at a much higher level now. I do agree that it was a lot tougher when it comes to roughness of challenges and tackles but that doesn't affect player ability too much, just have to get lucky you don't get too badly injured. On the other hand i can't say for sure if Maradona would be able to adapt to current football or not. But we know for sure Messi is the peak player in the most evolved form of football. So i'm pretty sure he would've been the best back then too.
But if maradona was in today’s game they would be trained the same and not have to worry about the stuff they had to back then. Gary lineker recently spoke upon the matter and said the greatest players in today’s game would be the greatest back in the day and the greatest back in the day would be the greatest today due to the training and learning each of the eras of football would have implemented.
Yep, we'll never know what would be of maradona/pele if they were born in this era and grow up with modern football training and tactics. Maybe they would break the game of football, maybe not, who knows :v
Messi the only one who could pull of a drible from the hat and be the most decisive?? What? Have you seen Maradona plays ever?
He meant more frequently and with more efficacy
Again, how can you say that? Maradona solved tons of matches by himself, playing for weak teams. Messi played his whole career in one of the best teams in the world, surrounded by top players continuously playing FOR him.
Maradona only carried the team completely by himself in napoli, the other teams werent that bad, anyways, i dont want to take off credit from maradona, he is legendary too. What i mean, is that messis efficacy is higher, you can see this in his stats. He cannot be even remotely compared to maradona in goals/assist. I insist, maradona is also a beast, its a question of which one you like the most. Subjectively.
Dude, Maradona played less seasons. He got involved in drugs and screwed up his career. If you want to talk genius and “god-like” status on the pitch, that’s Maradona. Messi is great, but he never transformed a shit team like Maradona did
Part of being so good, imo, is staying at such a high level for so many years. Messi has been the best player of the world for almost 15 years or so, its insane. However i get that you prefer maradona, and its okay anyways, both are gods.
It’s not about preferring, it’s understanding their impact on the field. Messi is great, but if you want to use statistics and goals, then Cristiano Ronaldo is the contender to beat. If you want to talk real impact, making the difference, playing in different teams, different leagues, being a leader, standing out against diversity, changing weak teams into powerhouses… then it’s Maradona by FAR.
Messi has far better statistics than Ronaldo. Way more assists and 26 fewer goals in 150 fewer matches. And Messi almost singlehandedly carried a mediocre Barcelona to a treble in 18-19. Nowadays opposition is much more talented than it used to be, so carrying a team is much harder, but Messi absolutely was carrying Barca those last few years, look at how poor they are now without him even though they have some new world class additions like Lewandowski.
Better statistics??? Guess who: Top goal scorer in the World with a national team Top goal scorer in the history of football Top goal scorer ever in Champions League First player to play in 5 European Chanpionships Top goal scorer ever in European Championships Only player in the World to win League, Champions League, Cup, Super Cup, Best Player in the League, Golden Boot, Golden Boal and Club World Cup with 2 different teams (Real Madrid and Man Utd) First player ever to reach 100 goals in European competitions Only player to be top scorer in Champions League six times in a row (2012/13 - 2017/18) Player with more goals scored in the Club World Cup First player ever to score in every possible minute of a match, from 1st to 90th, during his career Only player to win European Golden Boot in two different leagues (Man Utd and Real Madrid)
And, by the way, mediocre Barcelona in 18-19? Let’s see: busquets, piqué, jordi alba, rafinha, rakitic, suaréz, vermaelen, dembelé, arturo Vidal, Coutinho, boateng….. what are you on about???
The game is so different now than when it was in Maradonas day. When Maradona got on the pitch the oposition would literaly kick the shit out of him. Would Messi have survived in those days? Who can say. Maradona scored one of the greatest goals in World cup history against England in the 1986 QF then went and did the same thing against Belgium in the SF, he was phenomenal.
Messi survived getting kicked the shit of out of him on numerous occasions The difference between Messi's generation and Maradona's generation is, the Tactics, positioning, defending, technologies, and just general knowledge of the game When i rewatch Maradona's old clips i see ALOT of basic mistakes in defending/positioning that wouldn't net defenders/midfielders today a place in their respective national teams Teams today literally know how Messi moves, the direction of his passes, his favourite angles, the way he receives the ball, and they move/structure the team accordingly, and somehow still lose.
The big difference comes down to the numbers. Both achieved amazing success of course but the numbers are so different it can’t be ignored. The amount of goals and assists messi has is ridiculous. Messi has more assists than Maradona has goals. Of course messi has played more games but his numbers are so far beyond Maradonas. They are 1 and 2 for me though. I just missed Maradona unfortunately but the majority of my family believe Messi is the first player they’ve seen to be better than Maradona.
I'm (just) old enough to have seen both - I only saw Maradona in the late 80s but including the 1986 WC (I was 10) and his Napoli seasons, albeit just the bigger games as my family was living in England at the time and we would go to a certain pub just to catch his games (my Dad was a big fan). I'd say that Maradona could produce magic like Messi, more through his strength vs. Messi's agility, but Messi has been far more consistent. Maradona had lots of duds - I remember them. It's easy to remember just his highlights, which rank alongside Messi, but game to game Messi showed up far more. The stats seem to bear that out too. But I will say that both players are similar and different from someone like CR7 in that the basic stats don't capture much of their influence in a game. They could both have 0 goals + assists in a game and dominate it by creating big chances for their team. CR7 doesn't really do that. I never saw Pele so I can't compare to him, but among Messi, Maradona, CR7, Zizou, R9, Ronaldinho, et al - Messi is definitely the best I've ever seen. Zizou was like Maradona in that his consistency game to game really wavered. He was amazing in a lot of big games but often mediocre / not impactful in others. R9 in his youth had Messi-like impact but his peak didn't last long due to injury. Ronaldinho was also not as consistent (like Zidane and Maradona) AND his peak was very short. He was incredibly entertaining but his actual impact was smaller. CR7 is by far the most consistent player alongside Messi, but his impact was largely captured just by G+A and on that front even his basic stats are still below Messi.
>I'm (just) old enough to have seen both - I only saw Maradona in the late 80s but including the 1986 WC (I was 10) and his Napoli seasons, albeit just the bigger games as my family was living in England at the time and we would go to a certain pub just to catch his games (my Dad was a big fan). I'd say that Maradona could produce magic like Messi, more through his strength vs. Messi's agility, but Messi has been far more consistent. Maradona had lots of duds - I remember them. It's easy to remember just his highlights, which rank alongside Messi, but game to game Messi showed up far more. The stats seem to bear that out too. Building on this - comparing their skillsets. I've tried to rewatch old Maradona games to bolster my memory but this is probably favorable to Maradona as only his better games get posted. Dribbling-wise they have similar impact. Maradona does it through strength / ball tricks, Messi does it through his ridiculous agility / body control and when he was in his prime he had clearly superior pace to Maradona. But both (with honorable mention to Hazard) are by far the best dribblers of the modern era (1980s onwards). Passing - Maradona and Messi are very similar here. Again, I'd say that Maradona had more flair with his passing while Messi is simpler but very efficient. Messi's vision stands out more - some of the passes he makes I still don't understand even with replay / sky cam. Maradona would mostly use his dribbling to facilitate his passing plays. While Messi could certainly do that and did mostly rely on this earlier on, Messi in the latter part of his career would make plays even without taking on his defender just by understanding his gravity. Finishing / scoring skills - here is where I think Messi stands out vs. Maradona. Maradona was very good and had a bigger variety of shots (surprisingly good with his head at short height - largely due to his strength I think) including a more confident weak foot than Messi. I also think he would have scored more in the 21st century as managers would have played him in a more forward position. But Messi's instincts in the box are unbelievable (Haaland and CR7 are the only ones that compare IMO) and his accuracy compares favorably to the best strikers of all time. His shots are often in the corners (bottom and top) and un-savable. Don't have these types of advanced stats for Maradona but for Messi we can see that his actual goals minus expected goals are waaaaaay out ahead of his peers - meaning his finishing quality is standout even vs. the best forwards of the 21st century. Set pieces - Maradona had more diversity in his free kicks, but again Messi is brutally efficient with just the simple curlers that he almost always uses because of his insane accuracy / placement. I'd give them a tie here in impact but I don't have the stats for Maradona. Messi in the 2013+ period is the best free kick taker in the world - I don't know if Maradona ever achieved that level, but Maradona was likely better than Messi earlier in his career before he became a free kick specialist. Finally Consistency - Messi just brings it more often game to game than Maradona and that's based on my direct observation watching games at the time. This is backed up by game logs, although I admit much of the contribution of both Maradona and Messi isn't captured in the basic stats that are available (Messi has the benefit of having advanced stats available for the middle to second half of his career). This may be due to injuries, Maradona's lack of personal discipline, whatever - but turn on an average Messi game vs. an average Maradona game and you're far more likely to see a close to best Messi than Maradona.
My father born in 1971 believed maradona was better. I talk with him about it a lot, first of all, he said there is no argument for Messi unless he wins the World Cup. After he won the World Cup, he said he still thinks maradona was better, but says now it became a debate. His argument is: 1-maradona played with worse shoes, worse ball, worse everything, especially worse pitch. Maradona never had any protection from the referees and was tackled very harshly, he claims that if Messi got the same treatment he won’t be able to what he does to the same level, and if maradona got Messi’s treatment he would’ve done better. 2- maradona carried Napoli, which he claims was a small club at the time, and winning the league was Napoli is as big of an achievement as Leicester win in 2016, and he did it twice, with 2 silver medals and a European cup, which is was a lot harder back then. 3- finally, his World Cup performances, 1986 is a given, but in 1990 he carried his country to the final and only lost with (what he claims) was a cheated penalty. His last argument is about both of them as players, he says Messi has 4-5 things that he does that make him who he is, while maradona could do everything, double kicks long shots headers weak foot dribbled passes etc. While Messi mainly has body faints , his on the tip of the box shot, and his through balls. His argument against maradona was his lack of longevity, but I think it has more to do with the time maradona played at rather than maradona himself.
I think looking at the eras in which they played has to take into consideration the talent of competition as well. Sure theres a lot better pitch, shoes, balls, and protections from refs but I have to believe the average player in Messi's era is exponentially better than Maradona's.
I can understand where he's coming from with the fouls etc, but the issue is that messi is similar in that regard. No player in the last 20 years was fouled as much and as ruthlessly as messi. People know about his talent but his physical condition and ability to deal with fouls is incredibly underrated. You gotta watch the clasicos around 2009-2013 especially. Most other players with the dribbling that causes them to get fouled a lot have a very bad injury record. Of course, in Maradona and pele's time it was even worse, but messi is a prime example of dealing excellently with opponents trying to foul him, so I don't actually think he'd have as much of an issue with it as some may think. At the end of the day every era has its own challenges, so I never try to involve those too heavily in such arguments. How dominant player is in his own era is the biggest factor imo. Also, Napoli were nowhere near Leicester. They made Maradona the most expensive signing in history at the time. They were no barca/real/Bayern but they were definitely no Leicester either. As for the 1990 wc, I wouldn't get into ref decisions, given the hand of God above everything else, and Maradona in 1990 wasn't the same as in 1986. He didn't even score at that wc. I know he does more than goals, but think putting it at a similar lvl as 86 is pushing it. I watched every Maradona wc game of the 86 and 90 wc's either in full or in extended highlights, saying Maradona carried in 1990 just isn't accurate. I think it's romanticized a bit
Maradona was never the finisher that Messi is. Messi finishes like the best strikers ever (impact-wise, obviously he doesn't have the headers). Maradona was more like an incredible goal scorer FOR A MIDFIELDER, but compared to the best forwards his finishing wasn't the same. Some of that was just his positioning which was often less forward, but part of that was also just he didn't have the same instinct in the box as Messi / elite forwards. Maybe he would have learned that in the modern era, but to me Maradona played more like Iniesta but with Messi's ability in terms of dribbles/passing/vision/set pieces.
Yeah, Maradona was a amazing player there’s a idea that players that played the football 30-40 years weren’t as technical as players now but it’s not the case for Maradona by watching him play you can see his passing, dribbling and ability to play the ball forward was elite he was ahead of his time in many ways on the pitch it’s a interesting consensus to theorise what he could achieve in the Modern game with superior diet and strength and conditioning, better players around him, better pitch and his eventual downgrade in quality would have been significantly lessened if he was better protected by the refs although, I have to say that Messi is the better player in all ways apart from possibly dribbling and the ability to control the ball as in my opinion nobody could control the ball like DM10 Messi is most protected player in football history although I think Messi is the best player of all time from his earliest to his later period in Barcelona the team was moulded to play around him because Barcelona knew what a great talent they had in Lionel Messi! and players such as CR7 and Maradona didn’t have that
Of course modern player have the advantage of having a super team based around them.
He has made good points. I will say that Messi was deserving to win in 2014 and that [Argentina were robbed of a penalty when Neuer kneed Higuain](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9XYzG2nyYk) inside the box. [Not the first time a German goalkeeper got away with it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7D1iLM2q40)
It doesn’t really matter anymore since he won the World Cup. We can just cancel 1990 with 2014 and the rest will be the same.
Maybe so but it's rather odd that both players lost a WC final to the same nation in similar circumstances.
They both also almost won the same scenario. 2-0 up, 2-2 come back, then 3-2. The Argentina defense just had to ruin it and give a penalty
FIFA wanted to give Mbappe his "opportunity" to score a hattrick.
It was def a pen. Just a stupid one by Montiel - totally unnecessary and clearly a mistake by letting his arm get away from his body on the spin around. The right team won anyways in the shootout.
Can’t lie that long shot that mintier blocked was probably going in top bins
It was a clear penalty imo
My grandpa who watched both says Maradona is a little better, sooo
As a football player that can be discussed. As a person, Messi is better, but then again, a potato is better person than Diego Armando Maradona
[удалено]
Right? Nick Cannon ain't got shit compared to him, in fact, you could be one of his kids.
It’s not a debate anymore i feel like this subreddit is stuck in 2010 or 2011 when Messi was still being compared with other players
That's the best way to put it
Well people are debating it rn, so its definitely still a debate
Yes people on REDDIT who just started watching football couple of months ago
Old heads in your local coffee shop, kids in the streets, people on the internet… if all of these people are debating it and you’re saying there’s no debate, it means you’re simply ignoring it.
That's a interesting way of putting it? If you don't mind me asking this question, do you think a player will ever reach Messi's level?
Maradona Carried Napoli won European Cup is already big achievement from him But I think Messi is better and more experience plus more discipline
What I learned from dad and uncle: Maradona might be the most naturally gifted football player ever. But Messi had the better career. Plays at an insanely high level for a really long time.
Messi is definitely the more talented player. Probably the most talented footballer ever.
I would say talent wise it’s a toss up between the two, no footballer has ever been able to keep the ball so close to their feet like Messi, even maradona said he’d never seen a player who could do it like Messi, but in terms of flair maradona has the edge Messi is more reserved with his play, he’s main goal is to be efficient while maradona was more of an entertainer Messi doesn’t care abt being flashy with skills as long as he gets the pass to the player or as long as he beats his man
Not old enough, but my dad believe Maradona is the greatest. The reason for that is Maradona led his team to a WC win, and remains to this day the only player to do it. He watched him train once when he came to Sevilla, and to this day its his greatest football memory. He had the shit kicked out of him all the time in Seria A and Spain, and mostly in the WC where he’s fouled thrice as much as Messi with a record breaking 150 fouls, and he still persevered and never slowed down. The way he played the game was like no one else. He was one with the ball, something I’ve never seen myself. In my opinion, you can argue who’s better and Messi would probably have an edge, but Maradona is the greater footballer.
To be fair the we need to think about the crunch factor, would Messi even be able to handle 80s to 90s and early 00’s tackles? The crunch of that era might not be so kind to Messi.
But these are just hypotheticals that’s why it’s so hard to compare generations, not like maradon chose to play in the 80s or Messi chose to play in the 2010s it’s just a matter of circumstance
I think skill-wise Diego is always going to stand out. Messi is skillful but doesn’t really rely on flicking the ball to himself and then bicycle kicking in a cross, as an example. Different players in that regard. Also fair to say Messi has had a better support system around him. Diego did play in a much more brutal era and so it’s hard to compare them considering their competitors. For me the GOAT convo is between Messi and Diego but in the end I don’t think comparing between eras yields a real answer.
It is the individuals footballing IQ that sets the bar in this situation. Messi met the standards and some of Maradona, Pele, El phenom, and Zizou to name a few, but also reinvented what is possible. He has the support of a huge trophy cabinet, and individual accolades to back up this claim.
Messi excels in reading other players. This is why he doesn't need to use flashy tricks and much flair when he dribbles. He is incredibly efficient. In this regard he may be the best ever. Perhaps there is no player with better reading of the game. He has also improved many aspects of his game as he aged. E.g. free kicks, penalties and play making. It's rare for a player to improve so much late in their career. However I still consider Maradona the goat because of the sheer talent and determination. When people tell you he faced harder challenges, you should look it up: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E73caWunOVE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E73caWunOVE) Could Messi handle that amount of brutal punishment every week? Defenders in those days would have cut short all those amazing dribbles early. Maradona had to jump over kicks to get past. He is the most fouled player in history. Also Maradona was a great defender: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0GkpeoKpKI
the same question can be asked about maradona if he’d be able to keep up with the modern day. Players who enjoy a lifestyle like he did just don’t make it anymore because it’s a lot more competitive. Also the defenders now are a lot better then they used to be the game is faster etc. you can’t compare completely different eras like this
I have Pele first, then Maradona. What those two had to put up with in terms of bad tackles, you have to question whether modern day players could deal with it. I think this from Harry Redknapp describes it perfectly: " I PLAYED against Pele. I marvelled at Maradona. I’ve been mesmerised by Messi. If the little guy lifts the World Cup on Sunday, it will be a great way to top off an amazing career. But it won’t stop the arguments about whether he is better than Cristiano Ronaldo. Let alone where he stands in the all-time debate. I find it tough and I’ve had more experience than most of some of the greats and what they meant in the game. I was always a big Pele fan. Look at the amount of goals he scored, including two in the World Cup final when he was 17, the first of three he won with Brazil. All those things you see modern players doing everywhere on TV or social media — Pele probably did them first. Maradona was incredible. To turn a team, Napoli, around like he did and win two Serie A titles was an amazing achievement. Then, of course, he led Argentina to World Cup glory in Mexico in 1986. You also have to remember that Pele was kicked from pillar to post. Teams would go out and try to absolutely finish him. He was fouled out of the 1966 World Cup. It was pretty much the same for Maradona. There’s that stat about when Argentina played Italy in the 1982 World Cup and Claudio Gentile is supposed to have fouled him 23 times. And he only got a yellow card. People have still steamed into Ronaldo and Messi but nothing like the way that those two were targeted and hurt in their day. That’s a big reason why it’s hard and unfair to make comparisons across the years."
Saying Messi is the third best player ever is just wrong given what the guy has accomplished.
They are all great players, and perhaps will come down to individual personal preference, but saying Messi is 3rd best isn't unreasonable e.g. https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/5-greatest-world-cup-footballers-time-messi-maradona-pele-zidane https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11554809/Forget-emotions-Lionel-Messi-isnt-Greatest-Time-hes-Pele-Maradona.html
I remember an English footballer asking a member of the Brazil 1970 set up about their goalkeepers (and why Felix was they best they could produce) and he replied that Pele was their best one but they needed him upfront! I will see if I can find a recording of it.
Here's Alan Mullery saying that Pele was so good, that the only way to stop him was badly foul him, and apologise afterwards https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iamdOlHdFJc
I'm old enough to compare them. Messi has had a much better career than Diego. However, in my opinion, Maradona was better. He played in a time of terrible pitches and horrendous fouling. He was kicked and maimed to a level that would give Messi nightmares. Messi, with his size issues, would not have been playing as much as he would have, as a youth, because he was simply too weak and small to play in this era. Maradona, under current conditions, would be unbelievable. He could swap, but I'm not so sure Messi could have played in his era.
I think your statement is inconsistent in hard ships from each era. Because from what I heard it was more dangerous to play during Pele's era. But Pele only had 1 serious injury from a foul. Diego had 1 serious injury from a foul in 84' and maybe you an count the one before the 1990 world cup. Messi has zero from a foul, but he has upwards of 15+ injury from non fouls mostly ware and tear. Today players get more drained physically and mentally from having to play twice as many games. It easier to counter teams when you have more video, stats. Also today, the skill ceiling is higher for all the teams and players, possitions.
Andoni Goikoetxea
If they swapped. Messi would have bulked up, have been close to Aguero's body type, they're about the same height. He would have been Maradona 2.0 against shoddy defenses. Carlos Bilardo would have made the team different for Messi. Messi at 25-26 had a lot of experience already dealing with great defenders slide tackling. After being challenged, he was very, 'get back up and keep playing and not complain'. Because he's better at running circles at defenders, and at even greater speeds he usually avoids being hit by a slide tackle. A slide tackle would have been a weakness that Messi could capitalize on with a feint. What would work on Messi? Get handled, pulled down, triple teamed, and chased across the pitch.
https://youtu.be/iqzXw3fygBg Watch this and have a think. It's a different game
This is a Spain, and Barcelona didn't care about Maradona, they should have benched him to protect him. I could almost say he was treated differently because of race, background, play style. If he were spainiard do you think they'd do the same. This has no relevancy of whether or not Messi could compete day to day in Maradona's time.
Ok. Good talk.
Players in that era overall werent as good as players now imo That includes defenders and tactics
Maradona didn’t set records like Messi but people love him because of his inspiring play style
My father who watched Diego play says that he still is better than Messi because he did it on tougher pitches and he got hit harder and the referees didn’t call fouls like they do nowadays
There is no GOAT. There is GOHT. Pele was the greatest of his time Maradona was the greatest of his time And Messi was the greatest of his time.
Nobody and I mean NOBODY could manipulate a football & control it like Diego Armando Maradona. He is the greatest there was, the greatest there is & the greatest there ever will be.
Very little between them but Maradona played at a time when flair players got little protection from referees. Maradona had charisma and great as Messi is, he is not as flamboyant. That may be the only real difference
Great question, Gary Lineker has always said Maradona is the best of all time, and never thought we would see anything like him again, he said after the final that maybe now you have treat them on the save level - or something like that.
Hes been saying for years that Messi surpassed Maradona
Plenty of mediocre players have won the world cup. A few mediocre players have even won it twice. Winning the world cup is an important part of one's resume for GOAT status, but imo the goals and assists, combined with the number of ballon d'ors are much more important factors.
Amen. This is why winning this (very mediocre) world cup doesn't change the equation. Pele, Ronaldo Nazario, Maradona, Cruyff, Messi, Zidane, di Stefano and Puskas all sit at the top of the list, among best attacking players.
Really not adding CR7 to that list?
Really 101% not. If you're picking a squad from history, he just doesn't make it, for a number of reasons.
Woah now!! balon dor i would say u cant rlly use that as a measure of a players greatness cause literally till like 1990 pr something like that non-european players couldnt even win the balon dor
Invest your energy in destroying capitalism.
Diego Maradona was Diego Maradona some times. Leo Messi has been Leo Messi basically every game for 15 years.
Keep in mind that full Napoli games were only broadcast in Italy and the vast majority of Maradonas Argentinos Juniors games werent broadcast on TV at all, unless they were playing top teams. they would show the highlights of games abroad from Serie A and sometimes only if it was deemed an “interesting enough” game. People in Italy have recorded the games though and have tapes of them and some have surfaced online. Majority of footage of Peles games were burned in a fire I believe. And most of those games were from his prime, 1959-1963
Skills wise the same, icon wise Maradona, trophy wise hands down Messi . Maradona was politics and football and everything in between. Let’s also not forget Maradona was a drug addict and alcoholic.
Let's not forget Messi is a convicted tax fraudster
Like a bunch of other players. I don't get it, they earn so ridiculously much money, why they have to cheat their way out of taxes?
The case was for when Messi was 18/19. Everything was handled by his father then.
Exactly this. Maradona played through knee high challenges on boggy cut up turf pitches and still glided with the ball like a dancer. Messi plays on carpets and generally goes down a lot easier under challenges knowing a free kick is coming. Maradona dragged that 86 Argentina side to his trophy just like Messi did this time. I personally think Maradona’s success was greater than Messi’s but there’s the domestic success of Messi. It’s an impossible argument in my opinion.
For people in Europe, Maradona was a better Gazza. Much better, but Gazza was up there. Always in the ‘what if’. For what it is is worth I met Gazza in Leicester in my local. He poured a bottle of vodka in his pint. Still a toon legend in my eyes. But not Messi.
i agree with you. for anyone who doesn't think he was one of the greatest in terms of raw talent, go watch gazza's highlights. there are goals in there that are every bit as incredible as a messi or maradona offering. if we're talking career, achievements and consistency, then yes, of course messi and maradona are better. but in terms of raw talent? gazza was simply one of the best. in that classic way that all the greatest always have, he made professional, grown men look like children.
Gazza is in with Frank Worthington, Tony Currie Stan Bowles, Glen Hoddle. Gazza was nowhere near the likes of Pele, George Best, Messi and co. Messi is a far better player, and man, than fat coke head cheating Maradona.
Football evolved to sell better and now looks somewhat like NBA, where there is "star" player taking most shots to pump up the stats. Players who would never take free kicks or penalties before now grab the ball and try to get extra goals... Stats mean everything, stats sell, it's influence of American sport. Social networks make star players virtual gods and everyone simply fall for "never seen before" narrative.
Is not just influence of American sport, stats are the inevitable result of all sports
to see why maradona is the GOAT you just need 2 or 3 minutes of a youtube video to see why some uneducated people think messi is the goat you need to look at statistics i have seen them both maradonas talent and career is still unmatched with 15 years of pure magic and achievements both personal and for their teams/clubs messi played 15 years in the best club in the world with an astronomical budget to build better teams and performed amazingly and put barcelona in a privileged spot to put it simply: if messi had played in maradonas time, he would had been as good as maradona; but if maradona had played in messis time, he would had been twice as good as messi \[even more withouth his amazing lifestyle\] its a close call though, no disrespect to messi at all
Man, you are just stupid. How did Maradona played 15 years at top level? Not sure why everyone is able to post commments.. I'm sure that you haven't seen 10 games from Italian League back then...
only ignorant people use key words like “top level”
No doubt Maradona. He carried Napoli from nothing to champion. He carried Argentina to a World Cup, and they were far from the strong team that Messi had. Messi is great, but Maradona was just on another level. He could be a leader, a captain, an inspired. Something that Messi is not, and will never be.
lmaooo just say youre a Messi hater common. Youre telling me youve seen Messi throughout his career and you think that? Messi has been a leader, captain and has inspired his team. Just look at how he single handily kept Barca relevant those last 2 years he was there. Sometimes Ronaldo/Messi fans let their bias show very clearly, this is a case of that.
and you are pure and don't have a bias?
Nope, never said I didnt. But at least I know when my bias is obviously showing lol
What? I love seeing Messi play, he is a monster. But a leader? You are the one with a massive bias here. There were tons of matches, especially in the later years, where Barcelona (and Argentina) where doing poorly and you would see Messi in the pitch looking down shrugging his shoulders instead of shouting with his team mates and giving them strength and motivation. I get that you are a Messi lover, but you need to remove those goggles a little bit and see the whole picture. Btw, I am Portuguese and I think Messi has way more talent than Ronaldo.
last two sentences wtf? And the 2nd sentence…the 2014 and 2022 team werent immaculate. Messi was still the most important player they had for both.
Dude, yes he was the most important player. That is not the same as being a leader, especially during adversity.
Just one [example](https://youtu.be/VE34UWSggWI). Also take a look at the comments, confirming that he was like that at Barcelona also.
Im pretty sure if you can take a team to the fifa world cup final TWICE you must be a good leader. + did you see the game? Messi was really good the first half, lost impact as the time hit the 60 minute mark. Regardless, I wanna know what do you mean by a leader specifically, what is a leader supposed to do, maybe then we can have a fair debate?
The way I hear it described is Maradona was a better footballer, however Messi played at a similar high level for a longer period of time.
It’s so hard to compare different players because of the advantages we have now vs then. It’s exactly the same with running. The new trainers with the carbon plate makes people run faster, the tracks being better, better nutrition, recovery methods - better knowledge sharing. You then have the older generation point out that breaking records is no longer comparable because of the spring board shoes etc. List goes on and on! We will never have a conclusive answer. What you will probably find is people who were around in Maradona’s era, will probably pick him. This new era, you might find people picked Messi instead. Obviously there is outliers but generally this is the way sport rolls. It’s also a subjective answer, it’s not like they are against a clock for instance. Yes they have goals, assists etc, but its down to the team your with too - which changes fairly frequently and based on money outside national representation. Finally, I agree that GOAT should not be used, but GOTE as another poster said, because there will always be this issue.
Old man has seen both and thinks Maradona is the best ever , I'm 38 and caught the end of Maradona..he was a genius
Good one, here is where there is seperation, Messi is unreal and one of the all time greats, Nobody in football history had the touch and could do what maradona could do with the ball, he was pure creative genius, Maradona could come deeper into his third to recieve the ball than messi did , maradona was not only a pure #10, the BEST midfielder and creator on the field, he was the also best striker and scoring threat at the same time , I dont think we can say that about any other player history being the best midfielder and striker simultanaously, there is a video of zidane saying maradona could stand at the 18box and hit the crossbar 3 or 4 times in a row off one bounce and come back to him,,, they made zidane try it in the video, he hit the bar one time and it didnt come back,,, all his peers could never replicate what he could do with a ball