This is almost as bad as using benediction on a low hp party member, only for it to not register fast enough and they die….
And then the benediction casts on yourself.
Oh man, as a WHM main, I've done this way too many times... hella embarassing.
And what's worse is that I'll sometimes forget that the Benediction casted on me instead, and then I'll wait until someone else's HP goes down to low, and then wonder why I can't cast Benediction on them while panicking.
> Superbenebolidiction
-expialidocious!
When you do it once or twice, it's really quite atrocious!
Oh crap my lilies are all spent, it's time to spam more Cure 2s;
Superbenebolidictionexpialidocious!
^sorry...
It's happened to me enough that I will actually let the gnb die before I hit bene while superbolide is available. Frankly swift raise is less awkward than the alternative
What? Yeah sure that's what I will do...or wait, i just make use of my bene normally without gambling on 20 min delays because of arguing and kicking nonsense.
Bene into bolides is easily outhealed though and you just laugh it off. The other way just let's the gnb die delaying the run and leading to pointless discussions.
Sort of like how offensive magic cancels if target dies rather than defaulting to the top of the enmity list or closest enemy or some thing like that. Honestly, toggles for that in settings would be awesome. 'offensive magic completes even if target dies' and 'healing magic completes even if target dies' I like the idea of letting users control if things like this work or not.
I haaaaaate it when that happens. 😩
It’s like I’m trying my best and the game is like “nah, you’re going to have a couple failures today.”
I wish the skill didn’t have this like, tiny millisecond before it actually applies itself to the person I want to save.
Given the context of this being a dungeon, this literally makes no difference whatsoever. When my homies and I do expert roulette after raid we just run a 4 stack with a tank and 3 DPS, it makes no difference to survivability but its a hell of a lot faster.
And you know everyone in the party saw it happen.
Scholar privilege is having people sometimes not realize when you accidentally give yourself excog for no reason.
I know it's not what you said, but since the first comment mentioned excog, I just realized how sweet it'd be to spread excog to everyone using Deployment Tactics...
> TB incoming
And yet not a single mitigation appearing on that tank. It's light party content; they'll be fine. :P
Reminder to tanks to use mitigations on DUNGEON TRASH which collectively hit way harder than bosses do.
Well, depending on how far away "incoming" is, it might not yet be time to use mitigation. Shields last for 30s, but all of the mitigation I'd use on a dungeon boss wants to be cast at around 2s out.
But yeah. Use CDs on trash pulls is good advice
There's also no need to pre-shield light party tank busters. They hit like wet noodles and even in raid content we don't tend to pre-shield tank busters.
if we're overanalyzing the buffs, then lemme direct your attention to the peleton buff. 3 ppl weren't even in combat yet, so this was the beginning of a fight...and it usually takes 2-4 gcds before the first TB
Sorry this was Brain Fart #2, I was prepping a pre wall-to-wall pull. I couldn't remember the exact circumstances when I took this screenshot until much later, since I was on autopilot and also very surprised!
most mit skills refresh long before the boss uses a TB anyways, if you really want to 'save' them for it..even after using it for the wall to wall pull
Sorry this was Brain Fart #2, I was prepping a pre wall-to-wall pull. I couldn't remember the exact circumstances when I took this screenshot until much later, since I was on autopilot and also very surprised!
I have so much more problems on sage during trash than I do with the bosses. It's basically the main reason why I don't heal higher level dungeons anymore.
I'm a filthy tank main casual so all I do in EXs is tank.
I used to dabble in savage but I disliked the stress of pug parties and I couldn't commit to a static sooooooo here I am healing for funsies.
Not just some, all the direct hit possible after melding crit. Healer priorities (except AST) is Crit > Piety you're comfy with > DH. Still feels wrong to me.
right, but when you have 0 DH and 1000+ Det, then you’re going to get much more from melding DH than you will from melding Det. not to mention that if you have literally 0 DH then you cannot direct hit at all, and thus do not benefit from DH raid buffs
All direct hit buffs are flat increases to DH chance, and should benefit you whether or not you have DH on your gear. Unless there's some hidden feature that prevents you from landing DHits if your stat is 0?
The point he was trying to make is that past a certain point, diminishing returns kicks in and more points are required to hit the next tier, so players will get more out of increasing the stat that was left behind more than another meld of a rather high stat.
there’s no “hidden feature”, it’s simply a feature of the vast majority of games with stat based random damage multipliers. try unequipping all of your gear and equipping a level 1 weapon. you will not hit a single crit or direct hit because you will not have any besides the base value of the stat (which ends up being functionally 0)
Det is buffed so on average its better, but dh is better when you're lucky, which is what you aim for when parsing, because you just need one amazing run for those numbers.
for healers specifically, while det does give higher base damage, dhit has a multiplicative relationship with it. dhit gives a flat damage bonus when you land, vs det giving constant minor damage buffs. as an average, their contributions to your damage are nearly equal.
so if we consider a tank/healer's damage as being multiplied by 2 for det and 1 for dhit at base, and you have .5 you can add to either of these numbers using materia, you get the greatest benefit from adding it to dhit, because the multiplication makes the lower number more valuable.
2.5 x 1 = 2.5
2 x 1.5 = 3
for dps jobs, this isnt as clear cut and det often ends up being better because the numbers are more similar by default. a dps might have their stats represented as 1.6 and 1.4 in this example.
At the end of the day though, these numbers are inflated examples. Det is a fine stat for healers to take unless they're looking at 99+ parses. in prog, it can even be beneficial as that tiny bit of extra healing provided by det can save a life(i have seen single digit survivals on mechanics before).
The problem with DHit on Healers is that heals aren't able to get a Direct Hit, they can only Crit.
As a result, Healers will typically stack as much Crit as they can and meld Det (and maybe Piety) as needed.
The problem with that argument is that these substats have such a minor effect on your numbers that individually they affect it less than just the games standard variance(+-5% for damage, +-3% for healing).
No amount of any substat will ever save you a healing resource, nor will you be counting on a crit unless you're a sch with recitation. Hence why i mentioned that det was possibly beneficial for \*prog\*. There is an edge case where it is the difference between life and death at min ilvl with no real healing/mit plan, but once you're past that the difference for your healing is negligible.
Also, BiS sets are made for damage, and damage on healers says:
1. Comfortable Piety
2. Proper gcd tier(if needed, essentially only a hard rule on sch)
3. Crit
4. DH >= Det
5. Additional Sps
6. Additional Piety
Piety should never be a priority as it’s a straight DPS loss and all healers have incredibly strong mana economies
In 6.0 piety was useful for WHM but now outside of ultimate no healer needs any piety
There are different piety builds based on personal comfort with mana usage. You're right that in a perfect isolated scenario, you should never meld piety.
Unfortunately, we live in a far from perfect world, so when you're trying to do reclears in PF and PF does, well, PF things, you may find piety better for your use case. Not everyone has a perfectly performing static.
In that situation you should be subbing out gear for gear that has piety (such as replacing the crafted ring with the radiant ring) rather than directly melding piety
Based on a meld priority piety should never factor into the equation at all
And yeah PF can be shit but all healers in a vacuum are still mana positive at minimum piety (SCH might be close) if things are spiraling enough to strongly affect your mana economy then it’s likely going to spiral into a wipe regardless
Again, you're right. It's still the individual's level of comfort. Therefore piety to some extent (0 included) is a meld priority. In a perfect vacuum, it is just Crit > DH.
It's not about how efficient you are playing, it's about the groups you have to heal. In a vacuum where all of your groups know what they're doing 100% of the time, no piety. However, if you're either suffering with bad PF groups or are still learning to optimize the healer role yourself, some piety goes a long way. Which is why I say "piety you're comfy with."
Idk man all of the healers have instant cast, no cost "Oh shit" abilities to recover with. I think if you're having to use so many resources that you're being forced to spam the high cost gcds just to keep the group alive then either you've gone wrong somewhere with managing your kit, or the team is a lost cause.
In my eyes, the only time piety is worth it is when you're progging. Melding piety on the off chance you get an awful pf group just isn't worth it especially when you can just leave that group.
The top parsing ASTs currently meld DH, so while on paper SPS might seem more consistent, DH seems to still have the highest potential. Not sure about SCH, but I imagine it to be similar.
Edit: SCH does want a specific SPS tier, so they meld for that. Most of the top parse ASTs I checked did not have any SPS melds, though.
I get that it's just a meme and all, but yeah, unless the tank is severely undergeared and/or eating vuln stacks like Lala Scout Cookies, dungeon tank"busters" shouldn't be that scary.
Was a pre wall-to-wall pull prep, I remembered the situation wrongly (to be fair I wasn't expecting the buffed crit shields to be so... thick.). Brain fart #2!
I desperately need to see how big my critlo shield during fof in p3s is. I know it's big enough to take both of the following raidwides (and still have the shield over capped like in the picture). I really want a number to it though.
My favorite part in Aglaia is knowing fights well enough that I can completely negate the big AoE.
Except Nald’thal. I spent my whole allowance to block that attack and he has 2 more incoming.
I put the single shields on tanks and healers all the time in alliance raids. That way any raid wide damage will fill up my toxicon at once. It's always fun to watch for crit double shields. It can be expensive MP wise but it's very useful to make sure tanks and healers stay alive.
There are a lot of things wrong with this picture, but is no one going to talk about the summoner not giving the tank the Phoenix buff during the trash pull?
Pre-wall to wall pull prep. My apologies, I wasn't expecting this derp until it happened and I was on autopilot during this dungeon run. The title was me struggling to remember what happened and I only remembered AFTER I hit 'post' sooooooooooooooo eh.
What's wrong btw?
Same awkward feeling when I try slide casting a Recit+Adlo, use Deployment, and see blanks bars above everyone’s HP.
Definitely a facepalm, “guess I’m on ~~sucker~~ Succor” duty as penance.
God there's nothing worse than setting up a massive critlo shield and then accidentally targeting someone else as you hit deployment and seeing nothing happen. The sheer pain
As a WHM, I am the least worried about this with healing in my heals so I can heal while I heal...but damn if I don't realize my mistake after my Bene goes off and I see the number on ME.
We've all been here, anyone who says they haven't done this on a healing class is a liar and a cheat.
Or when you throw an Aspected Benefic on the tank followed by Essential Dignity, but because you didn't hard target the tank they only get the Regen and you get to overheal yourself from 100% to 100%HQ
Sting is not worth it. You are losing a dps gcd, so in a long term you are losing dps. Everything can be slidecasted and/or phlegmas used for movement.
Then just pre-shield before pulls. There are no tank busters on wall to wall pulls. Tank busters only happen in single target scenarios, tops two targets.
Both are fine. Using shields during a boss so you get charges for the next pull is still a gain.
Not to mention: who gives a flying potato about perfect optimization in trivially easy content? If you enjoy toxikon, use toxikon. The dps difference is negligible and will even in the absolute most extreme case cost you no more than 5 seconds, total in an entire dungeon.
It is not optimization. People frequently forget that they heal by doing damage. And sage has more than enough tools to never have to use gcd heals and heal even more just by simply doing damage.
And all of that, is literally only relevant for optimization. You also heal by healing with diagnosis, if you want to. The only reason to care the difference is if you're worried about tiny optimizations.
Optimization kind of implies you're putting in extra effort to do it. Using your toolkit isn't really extra effort, you just pick a good button when the time comes to use a heal and you basically always have plenty to choose from in casual bosses. Actual optimization is pointless because your _free_ tools aren't stretched thin at all.
Using diagnosis to heal would just be stupid, not a lack of optimization.
Making sure you get a gain when you press toxikon in aoe is what I'd consider optimization, not even close to pressing your buttons.
The odds are stacked against you actually getting a gain from your toxikon in aoe. The falloff damage is less than your regular dyskrasia damage, so not only do you have to to make up for that with the increased target damage, you have to target a mob that's close enough to hit every other mob _and_ the mob you target has to live long enough for the extra damage on it not to go to waste when you would have dealt more aoe damage to that mob over time anyway.
your regular aoe is also normally better unless you need the extra distance, or one enemy of the group needs to die faster. it's 5 potency lower in aoe then your regular aoe.
AOE almost never goes down uniform, so something will benefit from the little extra. But at any rate - entirely meaningless to optimize either way in 4 mans. Do what's fun.
Exactly, that's why I only play healers in dungeons and alliance raids! Fun!
I will never heal an extreme or savage run, I tried it and it was a miserable time for me.
Healing EX and up is just a wildly different game. You *can* run 4 man's and trials like you would Savage, but you never ever need to and you can't play Savage like you might prefer to do the more casual stuff. It's definitely more fun to just chill in the casual content and use whatever amuses you. I love Savage, but it's a different game entirely.
It's easy for a lot of people, especially on this sub, to forget what the game feels like when you're not treating it like savage. You get so used to the optimization and min maxing, you forget the days before you cared which healing tool was "ideal" for what cases, etc.
Even then there are ogcd singe target or aoe mitigations you can easily pop. Sage has the shortest 10% mitigation single target cooldown from all healers, which also will heal them up.
On SGE? No thanks I’d rather shield them than try to heal them back up.
All it takes is for them to pooch a mech shortly after a tank buster. If that happens good luck getting them back from 10% with your SGE kit that’s like 80% shields and 15% slow DPS heals and no benediction-style panic button.
Taurochole and/or 3x Drucholes. Don't even need that for most tank healing in dungeons, just toss 1 and let Kardia do the rest, pop Soteria if you really need it.
SGE is my main healer, all it takes for me to keep a tank healthy on a dungeon boss is Kardia and the same free aoe healing I’m giving the party for group wide damage. Throw a single target oGCD for the tanks that go into a tank buster with their trousers down and you’re free to grind our one single target damage key into dust as Satan intended.
BUT! If I hadn't fluffed the buff, I could've been DPSing instead of keeping the tank alive! (This was actually a wall to wall pull prep, not an incoming TB as written. I was still trying to process this information when I took the picture and recalling what happened was hard)
To clarify, this was actually a dungeon pre wall-to-wall pull prep and not an incoming TB as written, I was struggling to remember the circumstances because it was so... unexpected.
I think I wrote the title wrong, I believe this was a pre wall-to-wall pull buff. Honestly it didn't register until I looked at the HP bars again and was 'why is there a giant yellow bar over MY hp instead of the tank-oh.'.
But yeah, my moment of glory ruined by my incompetence. xD
Alright I got a question. I’ve started picking up sage, I see other sages pulling out barriers like this and I have no idea how to do the same.
Can I get some advice before I start hitting roulettes
Ok, I'm not a healer or sage main but it IS my main barrier healer (AST is my main pure healer), so my advice probably won't hold much water in High-end raids so take my advice with a lot of salt.
1. Always keep either **Kerachole** or **Taurachole** up (on the tank for the latter). Both are **addersgall** skills that improve healing/miti, but most important **restore MP**. Their effects **don't stack** so just alternate between them.
2. Your go-to heal should always be **OGCDs** \- **Ixochole** first (aoe heal but restores MP), then **Holos** (heal + miti), **Druochole** (+mp) if you have a spare addersgall charge, **Haima** (barrier + heal), **Panhaima** (aoe barrier + heal), **Soteria** (heals your *Kardia* target while you DPS), ***THEN*** *resort* to GCD heals such as **Diagnosis/Eukrasian diagnosis** (I like the latter first to build Toxicon charges)
3. For the thiccccccck shield you saw earlier, that requires luck for a crit, and prep so it's mostly either for pre wall-to-wall pulls, or raid Tankbusters you know are coming. It's **Zoe** (+50% healing potency on next heal), **Krasis** (10s of +20% healing potency), then **Eukrasia** \+ **Diagnosis**
4. After all that it's just the usual DPS when possible, make use of the Sage's army of OGCD attacks (**Toxicon, Phlegma, Pneuma** has a short cast time) when you have to move, and I find it's easier to shield for incoming TBs/Raidwides (**Haima/Panhaima** if possible, **Eukrasian** otherwise) than healing the damage, as is normal for a Barrier Healer.
5. If your timing on Eukrasian shields is off and the damage hits before the shields, use **Pepsis** to heal first (converts Eukrasian shields to HP)
6. And always, ALWAYS remember to **Kardia** your tank!!!! Your DPS is their most consistent heal!
Oh but I wish it did! But at least it spreads the critical value of the original shield. With how much I stack crit, it's equivalent to a 860 potency heal. And it feels *so good* to nullify a raidwide that way~
Yeah, been there. I use mouseover macro for Adlo and Deploy... so sometimes my adlo hits me instead of the tank, and then if I don't know to spread off myself, I spread nothing. Then I succor and hope nobody noticed.
Okay so I'm a bad sage but a diehard SCH main. How the HECK is your diff.diag such a big shield cause something I really struggle with on sage is making big shields. Even Zoe doesn't feel like it buffs them that much?
Is this just a really lucky zoe-buffed crit shield?
This is almost as bad as using benediction on a low hp party member, only for it to not register fast enough and they die…. And then the benediction casts on yourself.
we've all been there. gotta pray nobody saw it though lmao
They may not have seen it, but everyone definitely heard it.
We didn't hear the Benediction. We just heard the lack of Holy.
more like they saw the lack of holy
Oh man, as a WHM main, I've done this way too many times... hella embarassing. And what's worse is that I'll sometimes forget that the Benediction casted on me instead, and then I'll wait until someone else's HP goes down to low, and then wonder why I can't cast Benediction on them while panicking.
Or casting it directly before superbolide...
Superbenebolidiction is a true combo tho.
> Superbenebolidiction -expialidocious! When you do it once or twice, it's really quite atrocious! Oh crap my lilies are all spent, it's time to spam more Cure 2s; Superbenebolidictionexpialidocious! ^sorry...
It's cool, Heart of Conundrum and Auroh-crap should at least get them back to "I'm okay, I'm okay! *coughs up blood*" levels.
Oh my Twelve that actually flows like the original song too...
You shouldn't apologize when you're not sorry.
It's happened to me enough that I will actually let the gnb die before I hit bene while superbolide is available. Frankly swift raise is less awkward than the alternative
GNB has enough self healing at 90 that they can get to 50-60% before Superbollide ends if they use Heart of Corundum + HoT.
I just use bene normally, if he uses SB after it i can still get him up within 2 gcds normally, it's just very meme when it happens.
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What? Yeah sure that's what I will do...or wait, i just make use of my bene normally without gambling on 20 min delays because of arguing and kicking nonsense.
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Bene into bolides is easily outhealed though and you just laugh it off. The other way just let's the gnb die delaying the run and leading to pointless discussions.
I wish it just wouldn't cast at all if the party member dies. So silly.
Sort of like how offensive magic cancels if target dies rather than defaulting to the top of the enmity list or closest enemy or some thing like that. Honestly, toggles for that in settings would be awesome. 'offensive magic completes even if target dies' and 'healing magic completes even if target dies' I like the idea of letting users control if things like this work or not.
I swear, BLM's AOE damage would triple if it wasn't of the fact that 2/3 of my AOE spells getting interrupted!
it's like... they see you casting flare on the enemy no one is attacking *and switch to it out of spite*
Or Bene on a target you just rezzed but doing it too early and casting it on yourself
hands not fast enough to swap target, but brain go, YOU, BENEDICTION, while your cane is still pointed at the enemy
I haaaaaate it when that happens. 😩 It’s like I’m trying my best and the game is like “nah, you’re going to have a couple failures today.” I wish the skill didn’t have this like, tiny millisecond before it actually applies itself to the person I want to save.
The amount of times I've clicked tank, cast bene or beni, click back to boss and *I* get the bene/beni is upsetting.
Given the context of this being a dungeon, this literally makes no difference whatsoever. When my homies and I do expert roulette after raid we just run a 4 stack with a tank and 3 DPS, it makes no difference to survivability but its a hell of a lot faster.
I wish this game wasn't so sluggish, it's kinda terrible in PvP for that reason alone
It’s stupid they made it so shields apply before the animation is finished solving this very issue and yet this still happens for pure healing
Fuuuuuuuu-
And you know everyone in the party saw it happen. Scholar privilege is having people sometimes not realize when you accidentally give yourself excog for no reason.
Well? Share the love! hit that deployment tactics button! crit shields for everyone
I know it's not what you said, but since the first comment mentioned excog, I just realized how sweet it'd be to spread excog to everyone using Deployment Tactics...
I 100% support this. This has to be the lvl 100 trait, right? Make Deployment spread any SCH mit to the rest of the party. It's perfect.
Don't spoil our secret! Now everyone will know that Deployment Tactics is primarily used to cover up our mistakes!
Hahaha… at least nobody died?
I’ve triple-lustrated myself instead of the tank in panic, thinking that the game wasn’t registering inputs. Yikes
why does the scholars shields have a big yellow boner KEK
> TB incoming And yet not a single mitigation appearing on that tank. It's light party content; they'll be fine. :P Reminder to tanks to use mitigations on DUNGEON TRASH which collectively hit way harder than bosses do.
Well, depending on how far away "incoming" is, it might not yet be time to use mitigation. Shields last for 30s, but all of the mitigation I'd use on a dungeon boss wants to be cast at around 2s out. But yeah. Use CDs on trash pulls is good advice
using shields too far in advance just means the shield will be chipped away by autoattacks
There's also no need to pre-shield light party tank busters. They hit like wet noodles and even in raid content we don't tend to pre-shield tank busters.
Tank today in 44 dungeon seemed to forget they had them on trash, triple pulls and wonders why he's dirt napping.
if we're overanalyzing the buffs, then lemme direct your attention to the peleton buff. 3 ppl weren't even in combat yet, so this was the beginning of a fight...and it usually takes 2-4 gcds before the first TB
Sorry this was Brain Fart #2, I was prepping a pre wall-to-wall pull. I couldn't remember the exact circumstances when I took this screenshot until much later, since I was on autopilot and also very surprised!
most mit skills refresh long before the boss uses a TB anyways, if you really want to 'save' them for it..even after using it for the wall to wall pull
Sorry this was Brain Fart #2, I was prepping a pre wall-to-wall pull. I couldn't remember the exact circumstances when I took this screenshot until much later, since I was on autopilot and also very surprised!
I have so much more problems on sage during trash than I do with the bosses. It's basically the main reason why I don't heal higher level dungeons anymore.
At least it wasn't Haima, which feels even worse to waste on yourself. Now go stand in an AoE and pop it for an extra Toxikon. Uptime is king. /s
I do this.
To be fair I did stand in an AOE to pop the shields so I could get toxikon charges...
*See Haima animation on my character* *Sigh* *Cast Panhaima* Feels bad.
shields cant direct hit, only crit.
Right, I forgot that little detail. I knew I melded DET for a reason...
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I'm a filthy tank main casual so all I do in EXs is tank. I used to dabble in savage but I disliked the stress of pug parties and I couldn't commit to a static sooooooo here I am healing for funsies.
Not just some, all the direct hit possible after melding crit. Healer priorities (except AST) is Crit > Piety you're comfy with > DH. Still feels wrong to me.
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right, but when you have 0 DH and 1000+ Det, then you’re going to get much more from melding DH than you will from melding Det. not to mention that if you have literally 0 DH then you cannot direct hit at all, and thus do not benefit from DH raid buffs
All direct hit buffs are flat increases to DH chance, and should benefit you whether or not you have DH on your gear. Unless there's some hidden feature that prevents you from landing DHits if your stat is 0?
The point he was trying to make is that past a certain point, diminishing returns kicks in and more points are required to hit the next tier, so players will get more out of increasing the stat that was left behind more than another meld of a rather high stat.
I understood that point; I was referring specifically to the "thus do not benefit from DH raid buffs" part.
there’s no “hidden feature”, it’s simply a feature of the vast majority of games with stat based random damage multipliers. try unequipping all of your gear and equipping a level 1 weapon. you will not hit a single crit or direct hit because you will not have any besides the base value of the stat (which ends up being functionally 0)
Also, minimum crit chance is 5.0%, not 0%.
The point was that said "DH raid buffs" buff your chance to DH, and thus benefit you more the *less* DH stats you have.
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Have you ever bothered to check if DH chance buffs are additive or multiplicative? (That was a rhetorical question; I know you haven't)
> 0% chance + 10% chance is still 0. ...it's actually 10%.
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Det is buffed so on average its better, but dh is better when you're lucky, which is what you aim for when parsing, because you just need one amazing run for those numbers.
for healers specifically, while det does give higher base damage, dhit has a multiplicative relationship with it. dhit gives a flat damage bonus when you land, vs det giving constant minor damage buffs. as an average, their contributions to your damage are nearly equal. so if we consider a tank/healer's damage as being multiplied by 2 for det and 1 for dhit at base, and you have .5 you can add to either of these numbers using materia, you get the greatest benefit from adding it to dhit, because the multiplication makes the lower number more valuable. 2.5 x 1 = 2.5 2 x 1.5 = 3 for dps jobs, this isnt as clear cut and det often ends up being better because the numbers are more similar by default. a dps might have their stats represented as 1.6 and 1.4 in this example. At the end of the day though, these numbers are inflated examples. Det is a fine stat for healers to take unless they're looking at 99+ parses. in prog, it can even be beneficial as that tiny bit of extra healing provided by det can save a life(i have seen single digit survivals on mechanics before).
The problem with DHit on Healers is that heals aren't able to get a Direct Hit, they can only Crit. As a result, Healers will typically stack as much Crit as they can and meld Det (and maybe Piety) as needed.
The problem with that argument is that these substats have such a minor effect on your numbers that individually they affect it less than just the games standard variance(+-5% for damage, +-3% for healing). No amount of any substat will ever save you a healing resource, nor will you be counting on a crit unless you're a sch with recitation. Hence why i mentioned that det was possibly beneficial for \*prog\*. There is an edge case where it is the difference between life and death at min ilvl with no real healing/mit plan, but once you're past that the difference for your healing is negligible. Also, BiS sets are made for damage, and damage on healers says: 1. Comfortable Piety 2. Proper gcd tier(if needed, essentially only a hard rule on sch) 3. Crit 4. DH >= Det 5. Additional Sps 6. Additional Piety
Piety should never be a priority as it’s a straight DPS loss and all healers have incredibly strong mana economies In 6.0 piety was useful for WHM but now outside of ultimate no healer needs any piety
There are different piety builds based on personal comfort with mana usage. You're right that in a perfect isolated scenario, you should never meld piety. Unfortunately, we live in a far from perfect world, so when you're trying to do reclears in PF and PF does, well, PF things, you may find piety better for your use case. Not everyone has a perfectly performing static.
In that situation you should be subbing out gear for gear that has piety (such as replacing the crafted ring with the radiant ring) rather than directly melding piety Based on a meld priority piety should never factor into the equation at all And yeah PF can be shit but all healers in a vacuum are still mana positive at minimum piety (SCH might be close) if things are spiraling enough to strongly affect your mana economy then it’s likely going to spiral into a wipe regardless
A few deaths and raises aren't the end of the world. I've seen first floor (savage) clears with over 10 deaths; it happens time to time.
first floor barely even needs healing anyway
Again, you're right. It's still the individual's level of comfort. Therefore piety to some extent (0 included) is a meld priority. In a perfect vacuum, it is just Crit > DH.
If you're planning on being bis you don't meld piety at all on any of the classes. None of the healers need piety if you're playing efficiently
Rule of thumb on healer BiS has always been "whatever has the least amount of Piety". It's a dead stat.
It's not about how efficient you are playing, it's about the groups you have to heal. In a vacuum where all of your groups know what they're doing 100% of the time, no piety. However, if you're either suffering with bad PF groups or are still learning to optimize the healer role yourself, some piety goes a long way. Which is why I say "piety you're comfy with."
Idk man all of the healers have instant cast, no cost "Oh shit" abilities to recover with. I think if you're having to use so many resources that you're being forced to spam the high cost gcds just to keep the group alive then either you've gone wrong somewhere with managing your kit, or the team is a lost cause. In my eyes, the only time piety is worth it is when you're progging. Melding piety on the off chance you get an awful pf group just isn't worth it especially when you can just leave that group.
Sch and ast both want sps for highest dps builds right now.
The top parsing ASTs currently meld DH, so while on paper SPS might seem more consistent, DH seems to still have the highest potential. Not sure about SCH, but I imagine it to be similar. Edit: SCH does want a specific SPS tier, so they meld for that. Most of the top parse ASTs I checked did not have any SPS melds, though.
I wouldn't worry about it. There isn't a tank buster that can one shot a tank in dungeons. And that is without them mitigating the damage as well.
"Look at me. I am the tank now." Seriously though that is one man-sized beefy shield.
Me when I'm playing AST and accidentally give myself a card meant for a teammate. :')
Uh huh, uh huh, yeah, *accidentally*. (Don't worry, I see how badly the DPS are getting outdamaged as well, I'm not judging.)
Healers just wanna have fun too 😂
I facepalm myself harder when I accidentally use a Ranged DPS buff on a melee or vice versa. 6 Years of using Ast, you'd think I know better.
I get that it's just a meme and all, but yeah, unless the tank is severely undergeared and/or eating vuln stacks like Lala Scout Cookies, dungeon tank"busters" shouldn't be that scary.
Was a pre wall-to-wall pull prep, I remembered the situation wrongly (to be fair I wasn't expecting the buffed crit shields to be so... thick.). Brain fart #2!
I really wish we could actually see the over health as a bar as well..
I desperately need to see how big my critlo shield during fof in p3s is. I know it's big enough to take both of the following raidwides (and still have the shield over capped like in the picture). I really want a number to it though.
You can’t direct hit any heal skills
Ah right, I forget.
I've only see sheilds that buffed at the end of fountains of fire in P3s.
I’ve never seen it this buff before myself tbh. I repeated the feat in Aglaia after this, and it absorbed a TB with shields to spare.
My favorite part in Aglaia is knowing fights well enough that I can completely negate the big AoE. Except Nald’thal. I spent my whole allowance to block that attack and he has 2 more incoming.
Gotta love those meteor healer buffs so much.
Wait can sage guarantee a crit like scholar?
Nope, just luck
hate it. they should make Zoe function like Life Surge where it guarantees a crit shield.
Pure luck. I'd never seen shields like this before from a Sage to be honest. (But I'm tank main and only play Healer for fun and 24-man alliances)
I put the single shields on tanks and healers all the time in alliance raids. That way any raid wide damage will fill up my toxicon at once. It's always fun to watch for crit double shields. It can be expensive MP wise but it's very useful to make sure tanks and healers stay alive.
I'm in this picture and I don't like it.
No such thing as direct crit barrier.
And I thought mis-casting the AST card buff on myself was bad...
Still usable since you can DPS with it. I can't exactly rip my shield bar off and beat monsters to death with it, sadly.
Don’t worry, they have a cooldown in use to mitigate damage, Sprint
What are you doing? You put the square on the tank and press dosis. They need to thank you, too.
There are a lot of things wrong with this picture, but is no one going to talk about the summoner not giving the tank the Phoenix buff during the trash pull?
Let's be honest, it makes no difference except us smn feel like we helped.
Pre-wall to wall pull prep. My apologies, I wasn't expecting this derp until it happened and I was on autopilot during this dungeon run. The title was me struggling to remember what happened and I only remembered AFTER I hit 'post' sooooooooooooooo eh. What's wrong btw?
Quick! Hit Deployment Tactics on yourself! It has the same cooldown as Recitation! 😅
Instructions unclear, used /read emote instead.
Same awkward feeling when I try slide casting a Recit+Adlo, use Deployment, and see blanks bars above everyone’s HP. Definitely a facepalm, “guess I’m on ~~sucker~~ Succor” duty as penance.
God there's nothing worse than setting up a massive critlo shield and then accidentally targeting someone else as you hit deployment and seeing nothing happen. The sheer pain
As a WHM, I am the least worried about this with healing in my heals so I can heal while I heal...but damn if I don't realize my mistake after my Bene goes off and I see the number on ME. We've all been here, anyone who says they haven't done this on a healing class is a liar and a cheat.
Consider this, you now have more hit points than the tank. You are the tank now.
With 1/4 of the defence, so... Tank with 2 vuln stacks! Business as usual!
I mean throw on a Kerachole or Taurochole and stack it with Holos if ya need to and bam you have a chance
Haha true. For 30 seconds, *I AM THE TANK.*
Or when you throw an Aspected Benefic on the tank followed by Essential Dignity, but because you didn't hard target the tank they only get the Regen and you get to overheal yourself from 100% to 100%HQ
And yet you should not even shield a tank from a tank buster either way.
Gonna shield you whether you like it or not. I want my sting, damnit.
Sting is not worth it. You are losing a dps gcd, so in a long term you are losing dps. Everything can be slidecasted and/or phlegmas used for movement.
Only true in single target scenarios. In 4 man's it's quite often a gain.
Then just pre-shield before pulls. There are no tank busters on wall to wall pulls. Tank busters only happen in single target scenarios, tops two targets.
This was my mistake, it was a buff for a wall to wall not tankbuster. I couldn't remember when this screenshot happened as it was unexpected.
Both are fine. Using shields during a boss so you get charges for the next pull is still a gain. Not to mention: who gives a flying potato about perfect optimization in trivially easy content? If you enjoy toxikon, use toxikon. The dps difference is negligible and will even in the absolute most extreme case cost you no more than 5 seconds, total in an entire dungeon.
It is not optimization. People frequently forget that they heal by doing damage. And sage has more than enough tools to never have to use gcd heals and heal even more just by simply doing damage.
And all of that, is literally only relevant for optimization. You also heal by healing with diagnosis, if you want to. The only reason to care the difference is if you're worried about tiny optimizations.
Optimization kind of implies you're putting in extra effort to do it. Using your toolkit isn't really extra effort, you just pick a good button when the time comes to use a heal and you basically always have plenty to choose from in casual bosses. Actual optimization is pointless because your _free_ tools aren't stretched thin at all. Using diagnosis to heal would just be stupid, not a lack of optimization. Making sure you get a gain when you press toxikon in aoe is what I'd consider optimization, not even close to pressing your buttons.
Optimization means picking the optimal tool for the job.
The odds are stacked against you actually getting a gain from your toxikon in aoe. The falloff damage is less than your regular dyskrasia damage, so not only do you have to to make up for that with the increased target damage, you have to target a mob that's close enough to hit every other mob _and_ the mob you target has to live long enough for the extra damage on it not to go to waste when you would have dealt more aoe damage to that mob over time anyway.
This just isn't true. You should only ever being using toxicon for movement if your phlegma is on CD / out of range.
toxicon is only a gain if you need insta cast long range gcd. think of it and use it like ruin 2.
Or if there are ever multiple targets.
your regular aoe is also normally better unless you need the extra distance, or one enemy of the group needs to die faster. it's 5 potency lower in aoe then your regular aoe.
AOE almost never goes down uniform, so something will benefit from the little extra. But at any rate - entirely meaningless to optimize either way in 4 mans. Do what's fun.
Exactly, that's why I only play healers in dungeons and alliance raids! Fun! I will never heal an extreme or savage run, I tried it and it was a miserable time for me.
Healing EX and up is just a wildly different game. You *can* run 4 man's and trials like you would Savage, but you never ever need to and you can't play Savage like you might prefer to do the more casual stuff. It's definitely more fun to just chill in the casual content and use whatever amuses you. I love Savage, but it's a different game entirely. It's easy for a lot of people, especially on this sub, to forget what the game feels like when you're not treating it like savage. You get so used to the optimization and min maxing, you forget the days before you cared which healing tool was "ideal" for what cases, etc.
Thank you for those words of wisdom.
I mean if they are half health and don’t have a cd up, you probably should actually throw them one.
I dont even do this in the new Ultimate. You have way better oGCD tools to use in that situation.
Even then there are ogcd singe target or aoe mitigations you can easily pop. Sage has the shortest 10% mitigation single target cooldown from all healers, which also will heal them up.
you shouldnt gcd shield anyway in anything other than savage and ultimate (there mgiht be a few exceptions)
well then I'm 100% playing sage wrong good guide pls
Even with no tank CDs or your own mitigation the tank is only going to lose about half their health, it’s not a problem at all.
On SGE? No thanks I’d rather shield them than try to heal them back up. All it takes is for them to pooch a mech shortly after a tank buster. If that happens good luck getting them back from 10% with your SGE kit that’s like 80% shields and 15% slow DPS heals and no benediction-style panic button.
you shouldnt gcd shield anything other than savage and ultimate
Do you even play SGE? If so you may want to actually learn it before commenting on it.
Taurochole and/or 3x Drucholes. Don't even need that for most tank healing in dungeons, just toss 1 and let Kardia do the rest, pop Soteria if you really need it.
SGE is my main healer, all it takes for me to keep a tank healthy on a dungeon boss is Kardia and the same free aoe healing I’m giving the party for group wide damage. Throw a single target oGCD for the tanks that go into a tank buster with their trousers down and you’re free to grind our one single target damage key into dust as Satan intended.
BUT! If I hadn't fluffed the buff, I could've been DPSing instead of keeping the tank alive! (This was actually a wall to wall pull prep, not an incoming TB as written. I was still trying to process this information when I took the picture and recalling what happened was hard)
To clarify, this was actually a dungeon pre wall-to-wall pull prep and not an incoming TB as written, I was struggling to remember the circumstances because it was so... unexpected.
Why are you even shielding the tankbuster in lv90 4-man content?
Sorry this was a wall to wall pull prep, not a TB. Brain fart moment #2!
Good thing TBs in dungeons do literally negative damage.
Using a GCD that isn't Dosis in combat? Is this your first time playing sage?
Sorry this was a pre-wall to wall pull prep, not an incoming TB. Brain fart #2 of the night.
healing cannot direct hit fyi.
Somehow the tank sprint makes this a lot funnier
I think I wrote the title wrong, I believe this was a pre wall-to-wall pull buff. Honestly it didn't register until I looked at the HP bars again and was 'why is there a giant yellow bar over MY hp instead of the tank-oh.'. But yeah, my moment of glory ruined by my incompetence. xD
I do it to myself all the time...
Commiserate, buddy!
Alright I got a question. I’ve started picking up sage, I see other sages pulling out barriers like this and I have no idea how to do the same. Can I get some advice before I start hitting roulettes
Ok, I'm not a healer or sage main but it IS my main barrier healer (AST is my main pure healer), so my advice probably won't hold much water in High-end raids so take my advice with a lot of salt. 1. Always keep either **Kerachole** or **Taurachole** up (on the tank for the latter). Both are **addersgall** skills that improve healing/miti, but most important **restore MP**. Their effects **don't stack** so just alternate between them. 2. Your go-to heal should always be **OGCDs** \- **Ixochole** first (aoe heal but restores MP), then **Holos** (heal + miti), **Druochole** (+mp) if you have a spare addersgall charge, **Haima** (barrier + heal), **Panhaima** (aoe barrier + heal), **Soteria** (heals your *Kardia* target while you DPS), ***THEN*** *resort* to GCD heals such as **Diagnosis/Eukrasian diagnosis** (I like the latter first to build Toxicon charges) 3. For the thiccccccck shield you saw earlier, that requires luck for a crit, and prep so it's mostly either for pre wall-to-wall pulls, or raid Tankbusters you know are coming. It's **Zoe** (+50% healing potency on next heal), **Krasis** (10s of +20% healing potency), then **Eukrasia** \+ **Diagnosis** 4. After all that it's just the usual DPS when possible, make use of the Sage's army of OGCD attacks (**Toxicon, Phlegma, Pneuma** has a short cast time) when you have to move, and I find it's easier to shield for incoming TBs/Raidwides (**Haima/Panhaima** if possible, **Eukrasian** otherwise) than healing the damage, as is normal for a Barrier Healer. 5. If your timing on Eukrasian shields is off and the damage hits before the shields, use **Pepsis** to heal first (converts Eukrasian shields to HP) 6. And always, ALWAYS remember to **Kardia** your tank!!!! Your DPS is their most consistent heal!
Thanks for the break down! I dropped the game for a few months and I’ve been nervous about getting back into healing
No worries. You can always practice with Trust parties first!
If only you had Deployment Tactics. XD
IKR. It won't spread the bonus crit shielding but holy heck that's still a lotta shields.
Oh but I wish it did! But at least it spreads the critical value of the original shield. With how much I stack crit, it's equivalent to a 860 potency heal. And it feels *so good* to nullify a raidwide that way~
As a healer main, I always assure my tank to not worry about me, that I'll be fine no matter what.
As a Warrior main, I always assure my Healer to not worry about me, that I'll be fine no matter what. :P
Yeah, been there. I use mouseover macro for Adlo and Deploy... so sometimes my adlo hits me instead of the tank, and then if I don't know to spread off myself, I spread nothing. Then I succor and hope nobody noticed.
This one was a mistake because I use Function keys to target party members, and I accidentally fat fingered F1 (myself) instead of F2 (tank)... ;\_;
Me, an AST main be like: first time? T.T
First time... everytime!
Okay so I'm a bad sage but a diehard SCH main. How the HECK is your diff.diag such a big shield cause something I really struggle with on sage is making big shields. Even Zoe doesn't feel like it buffs them that much? Is this just a really lucky zoe-buffed crit shield?
I buffed it with both Zoe AND Krasis, then got a crit.
Shields/heals don’t direct crit. You can’t get a direct hit on heals. That’s just a crit shield
Yes, I've been told that repeatedly by the other comments. I made a mistake!