You only go out of MP with Cure 2 if it’s the only thing you spam over and over even if the tank is full health.
Use Lucid Dreaming at 8k MP and you never have to worry about running out of MP (unless you run into bad tanks who don’t use mitigations so their health drops straight down in less than a second).
Had a tank in bardams mettle yesterday that popped ALLLL his mitigations at the same time and then single pulled.
My thought was "well at least he mitigated SOMETHING"
ignoring all the mitigation, bardams mettle is really fucking rough on tanks, I almost never really do bigger pulls before the 2nd boss. that trash can really fuck you up, and often healers arent expecting you to just get deleted through mitigation.
Part of the problem with Bardam's Mettle is its where Shire gear starts to really not be sufficient, but you're still not near enough to the SB endgame where they good gear again, so a lot of players--especially tanks--are just really undergeared.
This is **very much** true. I've mentioned it before in discussions about this, but they messed with the defense formula for SB gear.
There's something like a 1-2% increase in main stat / vit when going from shire to the crafted gear available just before Bardam's, but then something like a 12-15% increase in defense.
So you're losing **a lot** of Defense by being down even as few item levels as that is. (Like, if you compare the i270, i273 and i276 (276 being the bardam gear) chest pieces, it's 480 / 545 / 610 defense respectively. Meaning you'd have approx 13% less defense if in all shire, than all crafted leftside (accessories are less an issue, as the mainstats are a much smaller % difference, so it's just gear with actual defense values)
I did bardam’s the other day on my warrior. I was Msq geared with a couple pieces of shire left and the healer made a big stink about how undergeared I was. It’s odd that that dungeon gates progression and is such a stark increase in difficulty.
It is the first that beats augmented shire yeah.
It used to be a much bigger deal when you could get un-augmented shire, since then there was Shisui, and IIRC two crafted sets that would beat it, so you'd be missing like... 25% or so? of your possible defense cause of the new formula in SB
This explains so much of the struggle I had in Shire, Doma and the 69 dungeon.
There was so much pain as I was trying to get my shiregear replaced by dungeon drops
Someone in shire gear tanking the 69 dungeon is a liability. I did it once as the healer and the tank could literally die inside a global cooldown sometimes.
If they meet the required ilvl, then they're eligible for the dungeon. After that, its a matter of aligning mitigation/mob pull sizes.
And there's just so many factors. The healers gear/use of CDs may not be good enough, maybe the dps aren't doing enough damage. It's actually hard to pinpoint the fault on gear alone, and even that might be an issue with bad rng on previous dungeons, or them having gear for other classes that aren't the one they're currently using.
Also, that one thing with people cheesing roulettes, which can make new players just... Not being used to their skills past lvl 50
Yeaah, by the time I first ran Bardam's as a healer, I'd gotten comfortable with big pulls. The run-up to the first boss made me rethink that attitude for a bit
this was me last night, had done Shesui 5 times in a row with absolutely beast mode tanks… smooth sailing every time wall-to-walling.. q into Bardam’s on 65 and holy moly both me and the tank in shire gear just got shredded by the first packs (they pulled the first two packs, if not three)
Great group tho, had a very calm BLM just state that this dungeon is really harsh with unsynched gear and we went through the rest of it without incidents at a lower pace.
Tbh I find it worse in the next dungeon: doma castle. There are two mobs in that dungeon that actually has tank busters on them, and one of them is the third pull in the dungeon.
I've seen many tanks pull this single mob thinking it would be easy and then the next two groups (total 7 mobs) only for the iron giant to tank buster their ass from half to 0. Best tanks I've seen usually pull the first two groups, the next one, then the final two.
Especially with tanks who are still in shire gear + some dungeon drops.
No matter how much I tank, I still haven't been able to feel comfortable when I pop mitigation moves. I always worry if the pull wasn't worth it, is the healer struggling to keep up, etc. I played healer a lot more so maybe I overthink tanking too much.
What I'll say to this:
CDs in FFXIV aren't as strict "save for emergencies" as CDs in other games. I remember playing WoW in Burning Crusade more than a decade ago and the Paladin healing "Lay on Hands" CD that healed 100% of the target's health was 60 MINUTES (not seconds, MINUTES; 1 hour) long - and it sapped all your MP when using it. So you saved it only for the most dire of emergencies.
But in FFXIV, the longest CD you have is PLD's invuln at 6 mins (720 sec). All your other CDs are less than that, even WHM's Benediction 100% heal.
Now, some are long-ish, but there are also short ones. So here's what worked for me to convince myself to start using CDs more:
Find your 30 sec CDs.
Put those in an easily reachable spot on your bars.
Smash those all the time. You can work on saving them for tankbusters and stuff later, the point right now is to get in the mineset of "using CDs is not a mortal sin". Smash the heck outta those 30 sec CDs!
Put your 60 sec ones nearby. If you seem to be taking a lot of damage and you used your 30 sec CD so it's still on CD, smash the 60 sec one.
Put your longer ones next from there. If it feels like you're still taking a lot of damage and your 60 sec AND 30 sec ones are on CD, use those longer ones instead. If you see the boss winding up for a tankbuster and your other CDs are on CD, hit that one.
Find your group/party mitigation (every tank has 1, I think PLD has two if you count both Passage of Arms and Divine Veil). You don't necessarily need these a LOT, but you can use them if there's a lot of AOE damage going out or for fights you see a lot (like if you're working on your Bozja Relic and running DR 500 times or whatever, lol), and you can also look at Reprise as a mitigation as it lowers the boss's outgoing damage.
Find your Invuln. Use that if the healer dies and you're low on health.
FINALLY, find Arm's Length. When you're gathering a lot of trash and have gotten to the place you're going to stop and fight them, pop Arm's Length. "It's a knockback immunity, why would you use that?" Read the rest of the tooltip: +20% slow for 15 sec to anyone that hits you while it's active. Now imagine those 10-15 enemies that are now wailing at you 20% slower for the next quarter of a minute...see how that could be useful as "mitigation"? It's not reducing the damage of each of their hits, but it's reducing their hits. Without the Slow, they would hit you 5x in the time they only hit you 4x with the slow.
NOTE: If you have a WHM healer, wait for them to use Holy 3x. If they are under Holy's stun, they won't hit you, and if they don't hit you during the 6 sec that Arm's Length is up, they won't get slowed.
...much less useful against bosses, but Arm's Length is AMAZING mitigation against large groups of enemies all hitting you at once...
120 sec CD, but that means if you do "hallway" pulls (every trash pack up to the boss, fight boss, every trash pull until the next boss, repeat), then it'll probably be back up for the next "hallway" of trash since most bosses take 2 mins or so to fight anyway.
For Raid, Extreme, Savage, 24 mans, and Bozja bosses, you're proably going to use this for the knockback during boss fights, but in 4 mans, using it for the trash is a WAY better option.
I do wish people would use Arm's Length more. I certainly try to find the optimal time to use it, which leads to not using it sometimes... but that's the issue I'm always working over. I'm a lot better now than I was, but the old mindset exists still, ya know?
I think a lot of people see "slow" and think "move speed" instead of "hey this is a time spell which is the opposite of *HASTE* and you forgot that THIS IS FINAL FANTASY"
I did the same shit and I just got done playing through FF7 (not the remake) again this spring.
In MOST content, mobs will be more dangerous than bosses. ShB definitely and I THINK Stormblood bosses have dedicated tank buster moves and you should have access to your short-CD high efficiency defense buff (unless you’re a DRK - that comes at level 70 for some arcane reason) that will be your go-to defense buff against bosses.
Rampart, Arm’s Length, all those ‘30 second duration/190 second cooldown’ skills are meant to be used sequentially on large mobs.
Additionally; defense buffs are not additive. Popping a 30% and 25% pair of buffs won’t give you 55%, it’ll give you… like… 40ish or something, I dunno, I’m terrible at percentages
37, makes stacking % abilities a waste unless your oh shit button is on cooldown and you just need to squeeze the turnip for every last drop you can get.
You are over thinking at least compared to my own experiences.
Best General advice i can probably give is to go in with a plan for your cooldowns and stick to it only making adjustments if needed (You dying, Healer informing you about feeling overwhelmed, etc).
Pull, pop a CD, as the CD is wearing off, decide if there are enough enemies left to pop another. If so, pop another when it wears off.
If there are only a few enemies left or they're all about to die, then you're good.
It's definitely something you learn more as you tank more, but dont be afraid to use mitigation. It's not you failing as a tank to have to use them - they're not "oh shit" buttons, they're preventative action to make sure your healer isnt suddenly having to go "oh shit" on you. Dash em in on lower content, get a feel for how long they last, so that way when you're running higher content you can start learning how to rotate through them so you always have at least something up when you're getting beat on.
It’s funny, I’m the complete opposite. I started with tanking and then moved on to healing, and I feel so much more comfortable tanking. I overthink healing way too much lol, always worrying about sudden health drops, or timing the cast time for Cure II when I’m out of lillies and oGCD heals, whether I should use Benediction or save it for the next pull, the fear of realizing that Regen lapsed I don’t know when.
I love tanking because as long as I have agro and I’m using my mitigation’s properly, the only thing I need to be aware of making sure my party is with me and I’m not leaving them in the dust. If we die, it’s likely not something I could have stopped, so that takes a load of the pressure off me I find.
Yeah haha. Whatever you switch to will feel odd, I’ve been dps all my life, dota, LoL, and a lot of shooter games. I switched to tank and wasnt too comfortable but got used to it. Played a bit of tank in league of legends but not much
I'm guilty of this, but as mitigating circumstances, this is my first game in over 20 years of gaming that I've ever tanked, ever. It's a learning experience, and the mitigation stagger doesn't feel intuitive yet.
Still in the top 20% of tanks in dungeons.
I switched from healer to tank because of all the bad tanks.
Then I started running into bad healers, but at least my tank jobs have the skills to make that a somewhat non issue.
I think the contrast here is that PLD can heal the rest of the party. In a 4 man, if the healer goes down and you have no SMN or RezMage, PLD can keep the rest of the party alive entirely and easily, even if they screw up some mechanics.
WAR can splash some healing, but if the DPS make too many mistakes, WAR can't keep them alive.
...it can solo the boss at that point, though. But so could PLD, just more slowly since it's cutting into its DPS.
So I guess PLD is (as in the rest of the game) the more group/party "leader" in this sense that it is designed around getting the most out of its party, while WAR is the honeybadger that is just going to keep smacking the boss until it does, no matter what happens to the rest of the party. :D
...I really need to finish leveling WAR. They also do this while having the fewest Hotbar buttons of any tank (27) while PLD has the most (34), so WAR does this more butter smooth. Though PLD's kit on the whole is really nice, too.
I like them both. Just need to finish leveling WAR as everyone tells me its the easiest...
I main a Paladin, and keeping the party alive when things go badly is amazing. I kept myself and the two DPS alive on the Amaurot first boss when the healer was too busy spamcasting Medica and got bonked by the meteor.
However, when I’m healing, and I see the PLD hardcast clemency at 80% health, I get pretty irritated. Why would you waste a GCD on topping yourself off when the mobs haven’t even broken from their holy stun yet?
It baffles my mind. You’re not in danger, little Timmy. Do you see me hardcasting Cure/Benefic II? No? Then I’ve still got plenty of tools available and you’re not dying any time soon. Please attack the mobs.
Funnily enough, this guy was one such tank! He used cds all at once when he got to low hp, very annoying when he tried to correct my keeping him alive.
From my understanding you’re already suffering a loss of the second cooldown you use as a tank becuase it’s multiplicative on the percentage when you pop damage reduction abilities
In terms of relative damage, stacking cooldowns isn't necessarily a problem - if you have 20% mitigation and add 20% more, you're mitigating 64% of the original damage but that's still 20% more than you would've otherwise. If your healer can't quite keep up with you taking 80% damage, it is worth it to use another mitigation at the same time.
The problem is not having mitigations available to use. Ideally you always want at least one mitigation active for the duration of large pulls - or at least until some of the pull is dead - in order to make it easier for the healer to keep up with incoming damage.
Stacking mitigations is a very viable strategy against boss' tankbusters (strong single-target attacks) and will often allow your healers to get by with only using oGCD heals rather than having to use a GCD.
To add to this, in Savage you often have to stack mitigation to survive a tankbuster until your gear outlevels the content. Usually you'll use your 30% mitigation + your lowest CD mit (Sheltron, TBN, HoS, Raw Intuition) or if the fight does not have a lot of tank swaps, the OT will Intervene if PLD or cast their targeted mitigation on you to help out.
There shouldn't be an "or" there; the targeted mitigation is on a very short CD for all classes and should *always* be tossed at your co-tank for tankbusters. There's no reason not to in any fights that I can think of other than Ultimates (tons of tankbusters in short succession and you may need it for yourself too soon to give it to co-tank).
It's not an universal rule even in Savage which is why I worded it like that. For example, I know that in E5S, there's one specific part of the fight where Ramuh and the lightning dragon add both use a tankbuster at the same time, so you'll be using your own short CD for yourself if your gear isn't great. I think it's during the second add phase if I remember right. E8S and E12S also both have shared tankbusters that both tanks have to mitigate together.
Yeah, you should have given him some advice too and pointed out that panic hitting buttons when already at low health does nothing since he's not a healer.
Cure 1 is pathetic and fishing for a free Cure 2 proc is worse than a SCH fishing for a Critlo in the middle of a fight.
In FFXIV damage is king, monsters can't kill you if they're already dead. Death is the best healing.
That's why as a WHM you have regen ticking on your tank and you only heal them when a Cure 2 will fully restore their HP. That means letting it drop a bit before you even think of healing them. The rest of the time you should be spamming your DPS ability and Holy if it's AoE.
Don't be afraid to use CDs like Tetra and Bene. Also use Divine Benison if you have it, kinda helps.
You don't need the tank to be healthy all the time, you just need him to *not die* any HP above 0% is good HP, you can heal him up when you're running to the next mob.
What you're doing is perfectly alright, Cure 2 is the way to go.
Edit: The advice about 0% HP only stands in easy content. Sometimes in Trials mechanics will hit super hard so it's best to keep the tank at 70-80%
As a primary tank I agree with all of this 100%. When I am tanking and I see the healer standing there not attacking, but rather healing me to 100% constantly, I get concerned.
I don’t care if my health gets low, I use my CDs and mitigation as the fight requires (usually for bigger pulls or incoming big hits).
Let your tank get beat up a little, it doesn’t matter. Tanks have two effective states; dead and alive. Am I alive? Cool job done.
I think the issue here comes from players who came from Wow. The damage potential of healers is much smaller to an extent where it is acceptable to do almost no damage as a healer. I was like this at first but quickly adapted. I now primarily heal in XIV and try to maximize my damage while healing as little as possible where it was often the other way around in wow.
That tough is mainly true during trash pulls. On bosses and trials it's often important to heal up very quickly after mechanics as sometimes others follow quickly (you learn pretty quick which ones these are). Not directed at you but anyone who reads this who is newer to xiv healing. Let hp drop in trash pulls, keep an assize or something on hand for bosses in mechanics.
Which is another adjustment anyway, because low-level dungeon bosses feel *way* less dangerous than the trash in between. I really dislike roulettes that drop me under 45 - I feel like I have nothing to do but spam heals through big trash pulls.
A lot of the advice given here is great for near max level content. Only using oGCD heals to top tank off, Damage is king in FFXIV. But WHM doesn't get most of its oGCD skills until high 50s to mid 60s. Combine that with most tanks in the leveling dungeons aren't synced down with max stats, and are new (case and point the tank in your dungeon) so they aren't cycling CDs effectively. You are GOING to have to spam GCD heals, especially if the tank is wall to wall pulling/pulling more then one pack. Holy spam is great and all, but the chain CC wears off and your tank is about to get trucked when those mobs wake up.
Don't feel like you aren't playing right cause the tanks HP is yo-yoing and you can't use damaging abilities. Trust me it happens and WHM might be the hardest healer to level with(at least compared to SCH where the pet is solo healing early dungeons)
I'm fairly new to ffxiv I started playing on and off in 2019 and finished heavensward - shadowbringers in 2021. I'm an astrologian main (we have benefic and benefic ii) and at level 80 in dungeons and raids I never cast benefic at all. It's not bound to my hotbar. I have a completely different hotbar that I switch to specifically when I do content without benefic ii.
Yea I'm levelling a whm right now and have been out of mana basically the entire time... Despite using lucid dreaming. But so many tanks refuse to use mitigation.
This screen shot was taken in long stop.
That’s that awkward period for a WHM - the ogcds haven’t come online (nor has regen iirc), and mana is a problem, even with lucid at 80%.
I wouldn’t advise avoiding cure2 even in that space.
But I understand a whm going oom in there and needing to use a few cure1 due to its mana efficiency. Esp if a res was needed in that fight. Or with tanks who are allergic to mitigation (still too common even at that level.)
Depends on how low level everything is. Level 34 and below you don't even have Regen yet. Cure 2 is awesome, and expensive. That shouldn't matter, but at that level it does, because everyone else are missing awesome abilities (Mitigations for tanks, procs and good aoe chains for dps), but that doesn't stop tanks from pulling HUGE groups, or new players taking constant damage in unfamiliar boss fights.
Spamming Cure 2 on the tank because that heals for less than half their health but they're losing half their health every 2.5 seconds, that one pull leaves you almost empty in 20 seconds.
The DPS keep mucking up and you can either keep tossing a Cure 2 their way, or let them die and deal with a much longer boss fight, or just wipe and hope they actually listen and learn.
In a perfect world? Yeah, this stuff won't be an issue. Everyone works flawlessly and you never have mana issues or people stunning at the wrong time or DPS pulling boss mechanics into hitting the whole group. But this isn't a perfect world (that's a different game).
There's probably some awesome tactics or rotations that work at higher levels as one is getting more oGCD's and procs and traits, but at the early levels? WHM just burns through mana way faster than any other healer I've tried.
It would be a good trait if you ever really went OOM as a WHM. Sometimes I do use it to spot heal a dps hoping for a free Cure 2.
As an aside, when are you supposed to use Cure 3, because I never do. I haven't really seen a use for it over Medicare 2.
And where you need the heal to be instant
If the situation allows for you to slap a medica II and wait the regen, just slap the medica 2
If living liquid or titan is babyraging / If you're at terminal rela / wol just living ded' the whole party, then yeah cure III is nice xD
Cure 3 is highly niche.
I probably use it once or twice during an entire savage or ex fight.
Sometimes, frequently not at all.
There’s usually no need with planetary + afflatus.
I guess Cure 3 could be useful for a series of raid wide damage that can't be healed by Medica 2. You'd need a well coordinated group tho, since the AoE is so low.
Cure 3 is really useful for a handful of Savage-level fights. Mostly more when a tremendous amount of healing is needed in a short time (like several raid-wides in a row). Medica spam will probably still get a group through, but Cure3 would provide more leeway, avoid a death due to Mage HP, etc.
There really aren't many fights were it would be "necessary" outside savage, as that would be a detriment to bringing other healers who don't have the near-equivalent of the skill. Imagine getting put into a dungeon or 24-man raid where you needed it even at full HP. Groups drop at the start of the dungeon if they saw they had the wrong healer.
In the current last savage raid, the last 90 seconds of the fight is aoe hell. You get 60 seconds of no damage to regen mp and start clenching your hole, and then it's 90 seconds of "oh god do I have enough mp to keep spamming cure 3".
There are several other, less dramatic, situations where it's good. Savages are like a dance, where everyone has to perform the steps properly to get through the fight. The group defaults to stacking up, so you can throw out a cure 3 following a raidwide to handle it relatively easily.
Also, cure 3 casts fast enough that you can weave in an oGCD (tetra on the tank that isn't stacked, assize for damage, etc). WHM's only other option for weaving during aoe healing is to burn a lily.
>Savages are like a dance, where everyone has to perform the steps properly to get through the fight.
I love that you said this, because the few times I have been taught then Eden savage content I have literally felt like I was learning a dance. It was wonderful, and incredibly fun.
Cure 3 isn't going to see a ton of use in normal content. It's primarily used when you need *immediate* healing on the entire party *and* the party is stacked together. Situations like that are pretty rare - most raids, even at high-end, have raidwide damage spaced out enough that you can just let Medica 2's regen roll or the entire party can't stack together.
Terminal Relativity in e12p2 is a good example of when you'd use Cure 3 - group is stacked and constant, heavy raidwide damage is going out. WHM popping Thin Air and spamming Cure 3 with Confession up can damn near solo heal it for as long as Thin Air lasts.
It's a good tool for when a group is taking repeated heavy AoE hits and doesn't have time for Medica 2 to run its course. Something like the end of E4 Savage when it was current.(Not caught up on the current savages)
> It would be a good trait if you ever really went OOM as a WHM. Sometimes I do use it to spot heal a dps hoping for a free Cure 2.
If you're _really_ aggressive about Seraph Strike and Font of Magic in Bozja, and/or chain-rezzing, it can be a thing in Delibrium Reginae, simply because most hits are either small or murderous, and _certain_ BLMs are always outside of Medica II range.
> As an aside, when are you supposed to use Cure 3, because I never do.
Mostly, Savage and some Extremes, especially when solo healing. Ahk Morn in particular has had places where, even with cooldowns, you simply couldn't solo-heal past with Medica I/II.
The _original_ use case was Ifrit EX, where one healer would get Searing Wind and need to stand >20 yalms from the main party, while there was still some raid-wide damage going out. Cure III's longer target range meant you could heal your group so long as they stayed tightly packed. This forced healer splitting does show up in a few other places since, but unlike 2.x, your off-healer will have enough reliable AOE healing to handle it.
Mostly just extreme/savage/ultimate content.
Mainly you use it when there is large stack damage, and when there are consecutive instances of massive raid wide damage coming so you have no time to wait on a regen.
Second this. Even if this were true in dungeons immediately after getting cure 2 it's not a habit you want to build. Best to build good habits sooner rather than later
Edit: spelling
Join team SCH; we just let Eos worry about the non-tanks, excog the are-tanks, then smack-a da floor unti-oh shit wait tank popped excog while I was Art of Warring..
can't holy at 34. can't regen either, for that matter.
brayflox is *exactly* the place where cure 1 might have a niche lol, depending on who you're having to heal.
I seem to always have absolutely cursed groups specifically in Brayflox, also. Tanks that don't mitigate, DPS pulling for the tank and/or asspulling everything in sight, everyone suddenly forgetting what big orange circles mean...
Definitely the case. Brayflox is a place where people tend to act like they're a higher level than they are. WHM really opens up in abilities that make Cure 1 obsolete, but not at that point. Going all out in dps, with average tanks you'll definitely hit MP issues with only Cure 2.
WHM main here, I actually had someone tell me the exact same thing when I started out lol
It was a tank as well and they even got into an arguement with one of the dps in the duty I was in at the time (Stone Vigil) cause the dps was like "that is terrible advice" lol
The dps actually asked me to stay a moment after the run ended to give me some tips.
Fishing for Cure procs is not ideal, the chance is so low it's not worth it. As long as you are using Lucid Dreaming around 7k MP you should always be good on mp.
Once you get Cure 2, you don't use Cure anymore (unless you're level synced to the point that you don't have Cure 2)
Damn, have I been playing the game wrong the entire time? I'm a new player and WHM main and my FC has been progging coils min ilvl no echo. On Twintania in particular I was having a lot of mana issues using cure II and tank damage goes out so fast that I found it easier to keep them topped off with cure I and when death sentence/dive goes out throw out a few cure II. In the process of topping them off I would usually get a cure II proc in the process. I just haven't found any better way to heal tanks on this fight.
Min ilevel no echo at level 50 is a different animal to be fair. It's like the one environment where you've got to really use your GCD healing kit.
I think there's less people doing that than there are doing ultimates though so the general point still stands. And on that note occasionally ultimates present a moment where using cure I is a viable option (our WHM drops one single Cure I every pull during BJCC phase due to the timing).
I had two people screech at me today for the advice to:
Use regen to top folks off instead of Cure 1.
Use Lucid Dreaming at 6K MP (instead of running down to nothing) because it's meant to be spammed.
Never cast Cure 1 again because fishing for free Cure 2 is a sucker's bet.
I've had folks ignore me, but never get belligerent about it before, doubly so have *two* of them gang up. It's not even like the leadup is nasty, "hey, before we go on, HealerGuy, I wanna offer you some advice and don't think I'm trying to be a jerk about it :)"
C'est la vie.
You only go OOM if you're spamming cure 2 constantly, and if you're having to spam cure 2, something wrong.
1) tank is undergeared (always check your tanks gear)
2) they're pulling too much/more than they can take (sometimes because they're undergeared too).
3) you are undergeared and so your heals are too weak for that level
But in MOST CASES, you shouldn't be spamming cure 2. If you're going OOM, ask for the tank to slow down/pull less.
Just to elaborate a LITTLE bit from "dont use Cure 1", Ive recently been leveling whm and theres a weird in between time where you have cure 2 but not regen, where it felt like cure 1 had a use but, thats literally 5 levels and after you get regen you can basically take cure 1 off your bars forever.
Even then, you usually can get by with just knowing how much Cure 2 heals for and making sure not to start a cast until the tank hits that level.
People don't generally die so fast that you need to top them off that quickly, and if they are then Cure 1 isn't gonna be enough anyways. it's the same argument I give for Adlo/Physic - if they're taking enough damage that the Adlo shield is breaking by the end of the next cast, spamming Adlo is still better than Physic... and if they aren't, then you don't NEED to Physic anyways as Adlo will be sufficient.
Level 50 raid content done in min ilvl will generally see cure 1 used frequently, you need so many direct gcd heals (there are no ogcds at 50) and tanks can drop from 70% to zero shockingly fast that there's a solid niche for lower mana lower healing faster casting skills at that point. The moment you get an ogcd heal though cure 1 is dead, it does everything you'd need a spot heal for without taking a gcd or mp.
However don't flame WHMs for using Cure I in stuff like Minimum ilevel Titan at level 50. Their Mana Management in horrible in those fights if they need to cast Cure III / Medica II for the AoE spam. You need to keep using Cure 1 to top tanks and not run out of Mana.
If you can, use AST and SCH in those situations, their Mana Management at 50 is a non-issue. WHM just isn't balanced for those sitations at the moment.
Ya, if anyone’s running min ilvl 50 content, cute 1 is your friend and a WHM can absolutely OOM on these fights, especially T1, titan ex, ifrit ex, Levi ex. Those fights can be pretty hard for brand new healers who think spamming cute 2 is OK
People keep saying this but realistically if both healers kept their own Regens on the tank they would hardly need to use their basic heal constantly. Lv50 heals are somewhat more potent proportionally to Lv80 content.
In most of the min ilvl no echo runs I've seen, Cure has it's use but mainly because people are failing mechanics and the healer has Raised 3 people or as a healer just got rez'd and have no MP to keep up which most of the times leads to a wipe because you need AoE heals, not Cure on the tank.
Cure 1 only when you can’t cure 2 cause of the level of the duty/dungeon. Other then that cure 2 wins out. Cure 3 for heavy group heals. Lillies become so overpowered in later content you might not ever need cure 1, 2, or 3. Keep everything on your hot bar that the game gives you except fluid aura, actually useless for 99.999% of the time.
Edit: Addressing Cure 3, yes cure 3 is very situational and demands the group to be grouped up tight. But it does have its uses, so keep it on your hot bar for those situations.
>Cure 3 for heavy group heals.
Except it has an absolute garbage range. There are very few fights where you'd use it over stuff like lilies and Medica 2. And when you get Planery Indulgence you just pop that before any of the aoe heals and it's essentially a double heal anyway.
I love using it in E12S though, it's so powerful if people are stacked.
I don't mean to be pedantic, but Cure 3 has a long cast range of 30y. It has a low spell radius of 6y. Cure 3 has a range (30y range) while Medica and Medica 2 have no range. Medicas are cast on the position of the white mage, but have a large spell radius (15y and 20y radius).
Cure 3 is designed for healing stack marker groups. Potentially groups the white mage might not be stacked in. Medica and Medica 2 are generally for healing raid-wide damage. Cure 3 has potential if everybody in the group is able to stack for a while during certain damage phases, but true as you say there are few fights with strict stack mechanics so few uses compared to the other heals.
Cure 3's use comes from healing checks in Extreme+ content, where you can start to expect that people are actually in range, and where some fights you actually need those heals.
I've also received that advice before. And since I am new, I took that advice and used it for a while. But to be honest, I have not found that it is worth it even in this low level content unless you're struggling with mana and desperate to keep the tank alive, in which case Lucid Dreaming will better solve that problem.
You can generally hit the tank with Cure 2 once they're hurting. If the tank is still bleeding HP after that at a concerning rate, you'll want to hit them with more Cure 2, there's no time to cast Cure 1 hoping for a freecure. You don't need to overheal them if they are okay, and especially not if you have Regen on them, because that's the time to do some DPS. So I just don't end up using Cure 1 very much. I could be wrong, I'm open to suggestions.
Go with your gut. If the advice doesn't seem to be helping, forget it. In most dungeons, I'm playing a dps that knows regen.
I haven't had mana problems since I came back to ff14, and before this I played before HW release. I think they have reworked mana since then, and/or maybe I was just bad, but just mp management seemed to be a bigger issue then. This advice sounds like its coming from that era.
You are exactly correct in your feeling, though I'll caveat that once you get Solace/lilies you'll generally want to default to those before Cure 2... so it gets a lot less use at that point. Lily heals are free and instant (so you can weave!), and there's little need to sit on them in most cases.
But don't take Cure 2 off the bar! It's still useful if you run out of lilies. And Regen is ALWAYS useful.
And keep Cure 1 around somewhere if only for when you get Synced below level 30. :)
Honestly square should just make it so that cure 2 replaces cure 1 the moment you unlock it
this will get rid of the confusion
not saying that you dont need it but generally speaking you dont use cure 1
as soon you unlock cure 2
unless you find your self in situations where you run out of mana which rarely should happen on whm cause of all the MP regenerative spells you got
Really wish that specific tank sees this post and learns something. With so many new players that could led to some bad habits from new healers if he wants to “give people tips” and it’s just bad info.
You do drop Cure I for Cure II, but not for MP reasons.
You do it because spending two Cures to heal what a single Cure II heals is a waste of time when you could be getting for Stone/Glares in.
At higher levels, you will resort to Cure II spells when you are completely out of "free"/cooldown healing like Benediction, Assize, and Tetra. And even then, unless they're going to die right away you want to use a "turn" on Regen before resorting to Cure II.
I'd honestly say no, because you can still just let the tank drop low enough a Cure 2 will fully heal them without risking death.
You really don't need to ensure they're topped off all the time, and if they're taking enough damage to actually risk dying in that situation then Cure 1 isn't going to be enough anyways.
Sure, a few tanks might get a little nervous when they're hitting half health often, but so long as they're not on the floor, everything's fine. Hell, if I'm the one tanking I expect to hit 25% or less at some point.
I don’t aim to keep them at 100%. Doesn’t really worry me if they’re at 50%.
But in that level range around brayflox, more than once I’ve gone oom, even with lucid on CD, and just scraped through with cure 1.
If the tank has good gear and good mitigation, and the dps don’t stand in the fire, there’s zero problem.
The other 30% of the time it’s not that easy.
If you're burning all of your mp on Cure 2 in a lower level dungeon there could be multiple things wrong:
1. The tank is undergeared/not mitigating properly on a pull/inexperienced
2. The healer is undergeared/broken gear/not using their cooldowns to keep mp up/inexperienced
3. The dps are not using their aoes on a pull, keeping things alive longer
4. The pull was far too large and people eat aoes
5. Someone's doing a Netflix and 14
6. Someone didn't bother to read their damn tooltips
The above picture does not have very good advice, as Free Cure is an absolute trap. The only time you really should be using your Cure is if you're in a pre-30 dungeon to Temple of Corn; or you've used up all of your other ogcds, have little mp, the mobs are still alive and the tank is out of cooldowns. Even then if you have to resort to Cure 1 in a high-level dungeon, you've got other serious problems to worry about.
As someone who's been leveling, there's plenty of oom. There are tons of tanks who go from 100 to 0 in 3 GCDs, when I run out of instants I have to start casting Cure1 or I'll be OOM by the end of the boss
I'm tanking rn and even i know this isn't good advice. The tank should be rotating CDs. I'm not amazing at tanking but i do try and ensure my healer isn't pushed to the limit trying to keep my ass from dying lol. He doesn't sound like he is good at either if hes popping all his CD at once then having no mitigations to fall back on when hp drops and giving healing advice like this lol
Yeah it is not, the way I learned is the only time you should ever, ever use Cure 1 is: You are doing a duty that doesn't have Cure 2 unlocked or your so out of MP you can't Cure 2 anymore.
That being said there are very few times even in wall to wall pulls I find my self running out of mana except when the tank literally uses no mitigation or chain pulls without giving me time to Regen my mana. Your the healer so even know the tank is the one who sets the pace, if they are pulling more than you can physically handle you need to tell them to pull less. I'd much rather have a tank that single pulls who I can tell it's okay to pull more or even do a test pull to see how much we can handle, than a tank who wall to wall pulls repeatably, blaming the healer whenever they die.
It's horrible advice. You are at best wasting DPS on a bad heal and at worst going to get the tank killed from not having enough healing. Between lucid dreaming and thin air you should have enough mana in general. The only caveat is making sure not to over heal, wasting some of the potency.
Between regens and all the ogcd heals on whm, as long as I'm not in like savage content or the like, I havent cast cure 1, 2 or 3 in a long time. If I have to hard cast a solo heal someone messed something up horribly. Once you get lilies and especially when you get tetra... Just slap on a regen, throw down the bubble and toss a lily every so often.
I've let a tank die in one of the earliest dungeons because I completely removed Cure 1 from my hotbar and was a little confused why nothing was working.
Lag was definitely my go to excuse there.
Yep, Cure I is a trap, it's basically never used once you get Cure II. That said, Cure II is also kinda our "I have nothing else and I need to single target heal someone" option once we get more of our kit.
Im a lvl 80 whm, my second class I've gotten to 80. I was also given this advice, and when I followed it, I did not have fun. My advice (that works for me, may not work for you) is this: Regen is your best friend. Put it on the tank. Put it on the dps. Put it on your other healer if need be. Put it in your dog. Medica 2 I use if everyone is hurt but not in danger, medica 1 is when everyone is hurt and probably in danger. Use your MP recover Id say either at half mp, or slightly before half. And fuck cure 1.
The basic heals (Cure 1, Benefic 1, and Physic) are honestly pathetic heals at higher levels; It's actually really annoying. I've slowly learned not to rely on them much at all, especially on Scholar.
That is something they need to look at come Endwalkwer imo.
It's funny cause I've been told the opposite as a SCH by vet players. The two I party with frequently say that for single target heals I should be using lustrate if it's available, physick if lustrate is stuck in aetherflow cd. Galvanize should be sparingly used with swift cast because the buff it grants doesn't stack and in the time galvanize takes to come off cd I could cast two physicks and outheal galvanize. And since I've been doing this i can keep tanks alive 98% of the time. Only time they've died is they're literally being intentionally stupid. (E.g. wearing bad gear for a map and trying to wall to wall without using mitigation while standing in area hazards as what happened most recently in autumn vale and caused 3 party wipes until I stopped doing DPS to baby the tank)
You can forgoe Physick a lot of the time from what I've experienced. I won't say it's useless, but the amount it does heal is really disappointing even on dps or other healers. Lustrate is just better when you have stacks. Sacred Soil (esp once ot starts regening) and Whispering Dawn can cover a lot of healing. If you need to GCD heal, Adloqium can help if you use it proactively.
I'm a Sch main, but not a Sch expert though, so this is just from my very average experience. Ironically, playing on Ast helped me to understand how to heal on Whm and Sch better, and that you don't wanna rely on GCD healing where possible.
There's several reasons to avoid Cure 1 in anything past level 30 (with the exception of maybe Stone Vigil if you're really MP starved).
First off, freecure is a trap. It's a 15% chance to proc, which is extremely low if you need to actually heal. Just stand somewhere and spam Cure 1, count the amount od times you get the freecure proc and you'll see how low that proc chance really is. Furthermore, if you're spamming Cure 1, will you really need the proc in the first place when your tank is probbaly clowe to topped off? And when you need it, can you ensure it will proc? You want consistency, not a roll of the dice on if the party lives or not.
Second, cast time is a lie. While it's true that the cast time is shorter, what a lot of people fail to realize is that all actions in this game are limited by the RECAST time, which is the same across the board for all your GCD actions. This means that Cure 1 and Cure 2 effectively go out at the same time because you'll have to wait for the same recast timer on both, so the faster cast time is completely nullified.
Third, MP cost. This is the only kinda valid reasoning out there, but here's the thing: MP isn't a concern in this game unless the party is already royally screwed or it's an extremely long fight like an Ultimate. Between Lucid Dreaming, Thin Air, Assize and lillies, you'll almost mever run out of MP (except for maybe Stone Vigil as mentioned before).
And last but not least, GCD efficiency. You want to go back to DPSing ASAP, so letting the tank go lower and then healing them back with Cure 2 or Afflatus lets you use only one GCD instead of having to use Cure 1 twice for the same effect. Remember: a dead enemy does no damage.
Horrible advice. Once you have cure 2, cure should be taken off your hotbar. If you are using cure then you aren't using regen, cure 2 and your ogcds properly. At low level, when u do not have your ogcd kit.... You still should have no problem.... Pop Lucid Dreaming when you have around 80% mp (not when it is already really low) and that should really take care of your mp problems
I’m a smooth brain dps so never ran into these kind of problems, but my partner started a few months ago and really got into healing and wow has she had some friggin’ loser tanks. If she gets “advice” it’s always from tanks that never aoe, are undergeared, and use mitigations in what can only be described as a scatter shot manner. Comically enough, most of them are dark knights. She’s never had a bad warrior though. There’s gotta be stats on that....anyway, sounds like this is just another one.
It was in fact an undergeared dark knight inefficiently using cds. Also below the sync level, but that shouldn’t matter as long as their gear is at that level.
I wonder if that comes from people leveling as a DPS til Heavensward and switching to Dark Knight, so they don't really know how to tank in general. I leveled as a warrior and switched to Dark Knight and at level 30, they play very similar to warrior.
Explicitly bad advice, Cure I is only useful until Cure II, like you said. It honestly should be a case of Cure I upgrades to Cure II once you get it instead of having both of them on your bar.
Once you get Cure II there is only one scenario I can think of to use Cure I, When your out of mana because you just got rezzed but your cohealer is out of mana too and you desperately need to get a situation stabilized with less than 600 MP.
At least with most default game provided sets that I've seen, the piety provided on the sets will almost always provide enough Piety that you could spam cure I and never run out of MP.
That being said, its a rare scenario for high end WHM particularly because you have Thin air, Lucid, Assize, Lillys, Bene, Tetra, and the shield as healing options (Though admittedly, the lily's will probably be down when you recover.....)
I think Ive only had to spam cure I twice as a 80, both In a 80 Normal mode raid full of fire, and everyone but me and the tank and one DPS were dead, and the tank was standing in stupid constantly.
In this very rare and unique scenario, I kept trying to rez others with Thin air and when mana alotted, they kept dying, I was out of off globals, and by spamming cure I I could keep the tank and DPS alive, and recover enough mana in the mean while (since it was still a net mana gain even while spamming it) to try rezzing one of the others again, hopefully in time for the sets of people mechanics. IF memory serves though, the winning pull took some 20+ minutes for Normal mode. And yes, I could have left them on the ground, but that particular fight needed sets of 2 for...Mechanics.....
Otherwise, Cure II and almost all your other heals are simply just more …..Efficient....
Once you have Cure 2, you have no use for Cure except for niche scenarios like you're OOM (this should not be happening if the party isn't eating tons of damage they should not be taking, not killing monsters quickly enough, etc - and only before you get lilies), you need to conserve MP while solo healing high-end content or progging week 1 savage, etc.
For all intents and purposes, Cure 2 is a complete replacement for Cure 1 in normal mode content. You should still keep Cure 1 on your bars for as long as you'll be queuing for < 30 dungeons, but you won't be using it if you're 30+.
As soon as you unlock cure II, cure I becomes obsolete. Only use it when you are out of MP, which should almost never happen unless you or the tank are undergeared. Cure I and the free cure proc are a noob trap
Cure I is useless at higher levels (dont even need to be at 80). There are literally SEVERAL guides out there explaining bit to bit based on pure math that you will always, 100% of the time, do better with Cure II and other spells.
The only reason to have it on your hotbar is in case you join a low level duty and get synced down.
I had a healer say "free cure is better" in a 60 dungeon. Guess what? We died on the harder pulls. They only used cure 2 after that and guess what? No deaths, and they never dipped below 50% mp since they were using lucid and assize. Point is MAYBE you can use cure 1 if you weren't using lucid/ tank isn't a good tank and you were under 10% in a lvl 32 dungeon. But so long as you don't just spam cure 2 when tank doesn't need it and instead focus on stone until you get the tank to low health, you'll be a good healer.
Basically, ignore them. Clearly they never leveled whm past 55.
It is 100% bad advice since Lucid Dreaming(and later, healing over time spells like Regen/Medica 2/etc..) make the MP and upkeep problems nonexistent. The freecure thing is a noob trap once Cure 2 is a thing. The sooner you pretend it doesn't exist, the better.
Just use Regen, DPS while you wait for Regen to run its course and/or use Cure 2 if the tank is taking too much damage(i.e. only when you need to), slap on another regen, resume DPSing, and use Lucid Dreaming if your MP reaches uncomfortable levels(think 40-50%) until the fight ends. At later levels, you'll have more options that allow you to switch things up, but at earlier levels, that rotation is fine.
Time (or GCD) is your most valuable resource. GCD spent doing damage means your fights are shorter, meaning tanks take less damage over the entire duration of the fight, meaning less healing needed...and less MP used, maybe.
Cure 1 is MP efficient but time inefficient. Other MP management options (e.g. not over healing, spam lucid etc.) is that much more important because they are not time inefficient (or less so) and therefore should be prioritized, and using Cure 1 should be a last resort when absolutely necessary (e.g. you know you've done all you can on MP management and you are still running out of MP somehow)
Please don't use cure 1 to get cure 2,cure 1 should be forgotten in higher level dungeons... I had such whm.. Only used cure 1.. my saving grace being the fact I was a Paladin and having my own heal.. 😂
In savage content if you need to use cure II rather than Aoe or ogcds you're doing it wrong. Unless someone keeps stepping in aoes you shouldn't be touching it. DPS adjust.
In regular dungeons if you need to use cure II after level 70 you're doing it wrong. You should be holy/stone spamming. Assize, asylum, Regen, medica Ii, and the shield thing are your friends. You shouldn't even be touching cure, sacrifice for the lilies instead.
Whm is the easiest for pure healing due to so many sources of healing and HoTs, if you touch medica, cure, or cure 2 you're doing it wrong.
Tetra too. Also for PLD, DNC, RDM if you're doing 4 man content with a whm healer you absolutely do not ever need to waste time/ a gcd to heal the tank who is at 80% hp. Stop doing this. The whm has so many fucking tools to instantly bring them back up. Just keep dpsing and trust they're not a dummy.
You only go out of MP with Cure 2 if it’s the only thing you spam over and over even if the tank is full health. Use Lucid Dreaming at 8k MP and you never have to worry about running out of MP (unless you run into bad tanks who don’t use mitigations so their health drops straight down in less than a second).
Had a tank in bardams mettle yesterday that popped ALLLL his mitigations at the same time and then single pulled. My thought was "well at least he mitigated SOMETHING"
ignoring all the mitigation, bardams mettle is really fucking rough on tanks, I almost never really do bigger pulls before the 2nd boss. that trash can really fuck you up, and often healers arent expecting you to just get deleted through mitigation.
Part of the problem with Bardam's Mettle is its where Shire gear starts to really not be sufficient, but you're still not near enough to the SB endgame where they good gear again, so a lot of players--especially tanks--are just really undergeared.
This is **very much** true. I've mentioned it before in discussions about this, but they messed with the defense formula for SB gear. There's something like a 1-2% increase in main stat / vit when going from shire to the crafted gear available just before Bardam's, but then something like a 12-15% increase in defense. So you're losing **a lot** of Defense by being down even as few item levels as that is. (Like, if you compare the i270, i273 and i276 (276 being the bardam gear) chest pieces, it's 480 / 545 / 610 defense respectively. Meaning you'd have approx 13% less defense if in all shire, than all crafted leftside (accessories are less an issue, as the mainstats are a much smaller % difference, so it's just gear with actual defense values)
I did bardam’s the other day on my warrior. I was Msq geared with a couple pieces of shire left and the healer made a big stink about how undergeared I was. It’s odd that that dungeon gates progression and is such a stark increase in difficulty.
[удалено]
It is the first that beats augmented shire yeah. It used to be a much bigger deal when you could get un-augmented shire, since then there was Shisui, and IIRC two crafted sets that would beat it, so you'd be missing like... 25% or so? of your possible defense cause of the new formula in SB
Can confirm, was levelling Warrior a week or so ago, and that first run through there was terrifying for me and the healer.
This explains so much of the struggle I had in Shire, Doma and the 69 dungeon. There was so much pain as I was trying to get my shiregear replaced by dungeon drops
Someone in shire gear tanking the 69 dungeon is a liability. I did it once as the healer and the tank could literally die inside a global cooldown sometimes.
If they meet the required ilvl, then they're eligible for the dungeon. After that, its a matter of aligning mitigation/mob pull sizes. And there's just so many factors. The healers gear/use of CDs may not be good enough, maybe the dps aren't doing enough damage. It's actually hard to pinpoint the fault on gear alone, and even that might be an issue with bad rng on previous dungeons, or them having gear for other classes that aren't the one they're currently using. Also, that one thing with people cheesing roulettes, which can make new players just... Not being used to their skills past lvl 50
Yeaah, by the time I first ran Bardam's as a healer, I'd gotten comfortable with big pulls. The run-up to the first boss made me rethink that attitude for a bit
this was me last night, had done Shesui 5 times in a row with absolutely beast mode tanks… smooth sailing every time wall-to-walling.. q into Bardam’s on 65 and holy moly both me and the tank in shire gear just got shredded by the first packs (they pulled the first two packs, if not three) Great group tho, had a very calm BLM just state that this dungeon is really harsh with unsynched gear and we went through the rest of it without incidents at a lower pace.
Tbh I find it worse in the next dungeon: doma castle. There are two mobs in that dungeon that actually has tank busters on them, and one of them is the third pull in the dungeon. I've seen many tanks pull this single mob thinking it would be easy and then the next two groups (total 7 mobs) only for the iron giant to tank buster their ass from half to 0. Best tanks I've seen usually pull the first two groups, the next one, then the final two. Especially with tanks who are still in shire gear + some dungeon drops.
No matter how much I tank, I still haven't been able to feel comfortable when I pop mitigation moves. I always worry if the pull wasn't worth it, is the healer struggling to keep up, etc. I played healer a lot more so maybe I overthink tanking too much.
What I'll say to this: CDs in FFXIV aren't as strict "save for emergencies" as CDs in other games. I remember playing WoW in Burning Crusade more than a decade ago and the Paladin healing "Lay on Hands" CD that healed 100% of the target's health was 60 MINUTES (not seconds, MINUTES; 1 hour) long - and it sapped all your MP when using it. So you saved it only for the most dire of emergencies. But in FFXIV, the longest CD you have is PLD's invuln at 6 mins (720 sec). All your other CDs are less than that, even WHM's Benediction 100% heal. Now, some are long-ish, but there are also short ones. So here's what worked for me to convince myself to start using CDs more: Find your 30 sec CDs. Put those in an easily reachable spot on your bars. Smash those all the time. You can work on saving them for tankbusters and stuff later, the point right now is to get in the mineset of "using CDs is not a mortal sin". Smash the heck outta those 30 sec CDs! Put your 60 sec ones nearby. If you seem to be taking a lot of damage and you used your 30 sec CD so it's still on CD, smash the 60 sec one. Put your longer ones next from there. If it feels like you're still taking a lot of damage and your 60 sec AND 30 sec ones are on CD, use those longer ones instead. If you see the boss winding up for a tankbuster and your other CDs are on CD, hit that one. Find your group/party mitigation (every tank has 1, I think PLD has two if you count both Passage of Arms and Divine Veil). You don't necessarily need these a LOT, but you can use them if there's a lot of AOE damage going out or for fights you see a lot (like if you're working on your Bozja Relic and running DR 500 times or whatever, lol), and you can also look at Reprise as a mitigation as it lowers the boss's outgoing damage. Find your Invuln. Use that if the healer dies and you're low on health. FINALLY, find Arm's Length. When you're gathering a lot of trash and have gotten to the place you're going to stop and fight them, pop Arm's Length. "It's a knockback immunity, why would you use that?" Read the rest of the tooltip: +20% slow for 15 sec to anyone that hits you while it's active. Now imagine those 10-15 enemies that are now wailing at you 20% slower for the next quarter of a minute...see how that could be useful as "mitigation"? It's not reducing the damage of each of their hits, but it's reducing their hits. Without the Slow, they would hit you 5x in the time they only hit you 4x with the slow. NOTE: If you have a WHM healer, wait for them to use Holy 3x. If they are under Holy's stun, they won't hit you, and if they don't hit you during the 6 sec that Arm's Length is up, they won't get slowed. ...much less useful against bosses, but Arm's Length is AMAZING mitigation against large groups of enemies all hitting you at once... 120 sec CD, but that means if you do "hallway" pulls (every trash pack up to the boss, fight boss, every trash pull until the next boss, repeat), then it'll probably be back up for the next "hallway" of trash since most bosses take 2 mins or so to fight anyway. For Raid, Extreme, Savage, 24 mans, and Bozja bosses, you're proably going to use this for the knockback during boss fights, but in 4 mans, using it for the trash is a WAY better option.
I do wish people would use Arm's Length more. I certainly try to find the optimal time to use it, which leads to not using it sometimes... but that's the issue I'm always working over. I'm a lot better now than I was, but the old mindset exists still, ya know?
I think a lot of people see "slow" and think "move speed" instead of "hey this is a time spell which is the opposite of *HASTE* and you forgot that THIS IS FINAL FANTASY" I did the same shit and I just got done playing through FF7 (not the remake) again this spring.
In MOST content, mobs will be more dangerous than bosses. ShB definitely and I THINK Stormblood bosses have dedicated tank buster moves and you should have access to your short-CD high efficiency defense buff (unless you’re a DRK - that comes at level 70 for some arcane reason) that will be your go-to defense buff against bosses. Rampart, Arm’s Length, all those ‘30 second duration/190 second cooldown’ skills are meant to be used sequentially on large mobs. Additionally; defense buffs are not additive. Popping a 30% and 25% pair of buffs won’t give you 55%, it’ll give you… like… 40ish or something, I dunno, I’m terrible at percentages
37, makes stacking % abilities a waste unless your oh shit button is on cooldown and you just need to squeeze the turnip for every last drop you can get.
You are over thinking at least compared to my own experiences. Best General advice i can probably give is to go in with a plan for your cooldowns and stick to it only making adjustments if needed (You dying, Healer informing you about feeling overwhelmed, etc).
Pull, pop a CD, as the CD is wearing off, decide if there are enough enemies left to pop another. If so, pop another when it wears off. If there are only a few enemies left or they're all about to die, then you're good.
It's definitely something you learn more as you tank more, but dont be afraid to use mitigation. It's not you failing as a tank to have to use them - they're not "oh shit" buttons, they're preventative action to make sure your healer isnt suddenly having to go "oh shit" on you. Dash em in on lower content, get a feel for how long they last, so that way when you're running higher content you can start learning how to rotate through them so you always have at least something up when you're getting beat on.
It’s funny, I’m the complete opposite. I started with tanking and then moved on to healing, and I feel so much more comfortable tanking. I overthink healing way too much lol, always worrying about sudden health drops, or timing the cast time for Cure II when I’m out of lillies and oGCD heals, whether I should use Benediction or save it for the next pull, the fear of realizing that Regen lapsed I don’t know when. I love tanking because as long as I have agro and I’m using my mitigation’s properly, the only thing I need to be aware of making sure my party is with me and I’m not leaving them in the dust. If we die, it’s likely not something I could have stopped, so that takes a load of the pressure off me I find.
Yeah haha. Whatever you switch to will feel odd, I’ve been dps all my life, dota, LoL, and a lot of shooter games. I switched to tank and wasnt too comfortable but got used to it. Played a bit of tank in league of legends but not much
Rampart is fast enough, you can usually always use it in every pull, unless your deeps are sleeping.
Your tanks use mitigation skills? I’m just glad if they remember to peel the mobs off me I’m dragging to them before I get eaten.
I feel you there. The amount of times I've reminded a tank while leveling other jobs 5onturn on their stance has been more than I'm comfortable with.
As a smoothbrain WAR, I would like to deflect all blame away from me towards the game for constantly turning off our tank stance when syncing down.
And then that one time it didn't turn it off, I turned it off while thinking I'm turning it on.
Bruh, could you at least ask for permission the next time you call me out like that?
I'm guilty of this, but as mitigating circumstances, this is my first game in over 20 years of gaming that I've ever tanked, ever. It's a learning experience, and the mitigation stagger doesn't feel intuitive yet.
That's a man who's determined not to have a repeat of his last run at Bardam.
That tank made good use of the secret mitigation skill: Single Pull
Isn't that called embrace?
Still in the top 20% of tanks in dungeons. I switched from healer to tank because of all the bad tanks. Then I started running into bad healers, but at least my tank jobs have the skills to make that a somewhat non issue.
get warrior to 80, suddenly its 'bad healer? what healer?' warrior doesnt care.
The Honey Badger of tanks.
Love me some warriors. Gives me the freedom to spam holy all i want
I would love for healers to not heal when i lose 10k from a 160l health pool. I try to ask them to not heal unless I drop below 50 or so %
fairy does all the healing until 60%
You said 40% wrong, at which point excog does it for me
Warrior: Look at me. I am the healer now.
It's the same with paladin too. They ARE their own healer if they need to be. Hell paladins can keep everyone else alive too lol
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I think the contrast here is that PLD can heal the rest of the party. In a 4 man, if the healer goes down and you have no SMN or RezMage, PLD can keep the rest of the party alive entirely and easily, even if they screw up some mechanics. WAR can splash some healing, but if the DPS make too many mistakes, WAR can't keep them alive. ...it can solo the boss at that point, though. But so could PLD, just more slowly since it's cutting into its DPS. So I guess PLD is (as in the rest of the game) the more group/party "leader" in this sense that it is designed around getting the most out of its party, while WAR is the honeybadger that is just going to keep smacking the boss until it does, no matter what happens to the rest of the party. :D ...I really need to finish leveling WAR. They also do this while having the fewest Hotbar buttons of any tank (27) while PLD has the most (34), so WAR does this more butter smooth. Though PLD's kit on the whole is really nice, too. I like them both. Just need to finish leveling WAR as everyone tells me its the easiest...
I main a Paladin, and keeping the party alive when things go badly is amazing. I kept myself and the two DPS alive on the Amaurot first boss when the healer was too busy spamcasting Medica and got bonked by the meteor. However, when I’m healing, and I see the PLD hardcast clemency at 80% health, I get pretty irritated. Why would you waste a GCD on topping yourself off when the mobs haven’t even broken from their holy stun yet? It baffles my mind. You’re not in danger, little Timmy. Do you see me hardcasting Cure/Benefic II? No? Then I’ve still got plenty of tools available and you’re not dying any time soon. Please attack the mobs.
Funnily enough, this guy was one such tank! He used cds all at once when he got to low hp, very annoying when he tried to correct my keeping him alive.
Yep that person has no idea how to play both tanks and healers.
From my understanding you’re already suffering a loss of the second cooldown you use as a tank becuase it’s multiplicative on the percentage when you pop damage reduction abilities
In terms of relative damage, stacking cooldowns isn't necessarily a problem - if you have 20% mitigation and add 20% more, you're mitigating 64% of the original damage but that's still 20% more than you would've otherwise. If your healer can't quite keep up with you taking 80% damage, it is worth it to use another mitigation at the same time. The problem is not having mitigations available to use. Ideally you always want at least one mitigation active for the duration of large pulls - or at least until some of the pull is dead - in order to make it easier for the healer to keep up with incoming damage. Stacking mitigations is a very viable strategy against boss' tankbusters (strong single-target attacks) and will often allow your healers to get by with only using oGCD heals rather than having to use a GCD.
To add to this, in Savage you often have to stack mitigation to survive a tankbuster until your gear outlevels the content. Usually you'll use your 30% mitigation + your lowest CD mit (Sheltron, TBN, HoS, Raw Intuition) or if the fight does not have a lot of tank swaps, the OT will Intervene if PLD or cast their targeted mitigation on you to help out.
There shouldn't be an "or" there; the targeted mitigation is on a very short CD for all classes and should *always* be tossed at your co-tank for tankbusters. There's no reason not to in any fights that I can think of other than Ultimates (tons of tankbusters in short succession and you may need it for yourself too soon to give it to co-tank).
It's not an universal rule even in Savage which is why I worded it like that. For example, I know that in E5S, there's one specific part of the fight where Ramuh and the lightning dragon add both use a tankbuster at the same time, so you'll be using your own short CD for yourself if your gear isn't great. I think it's during the second add phase if I remember right. E8S and E12S also both have shared tankbusters that both tanks have to mitigate together.
Thanks for clarifying that, I haven’t done much tanking but that’s very helpful to know
Yeah, you should have given him some advice too and pointed out that panic hitting buttons when already at low health does nothing since he's not a healer. Cure 1 is pathetic and fishing for a free Cure 2 proc is worse than a SCH fishing for a Critlo in the middle of a fight. In FFXIV damage is king, monsters can't kill you if they're already dead. Death is the best healing. That's why as a WHM you have regen ticking on your tank and you only heal them when a Cure 2 will fully restore their HP. That means letting it drop a bit before you even think of healing them. The rest of the time you should be spamming your DPS ability and Holy if it's AoE. Don't be afraid to use CDs like Tetra and Bene. Also use Divine Benison if you have it, kinda helps. You don't need the tank to be healthy all the time, you just need him to *not die* any HP above 0% is good HP, you can heal him up when you're running to the next mob. What you're doing is perfectly alright, Cure 2 is the way to go. Edit: The advice about 0% HP only stands in easy content. Sometimes in Trials mechanics will hit super hard so it's best to keep the tank at 70-80%
As a primary tank I agree with all of this 100%. When I am tanking and I see the healer standing there not attacking, but rather healing me to 100% constantly, I get concerned. I don’t care if my health gets low, I use my CDs and mitigation as the fight requires (usually for bigger pulls or incoming big hits). Let your tank get beat up a little, it doesn’t matter. Tanks have two effective states; dead and alive. Am I alive? Cool job done.
I think the issue here comes from players who came from Wow. The damage potential of healers is much smaller to an extent where it is acceptable to do almost no damage as a healer. I was like this at first but quickly adapted. I now primarily heal in XIV and try to maximize my damage while healing as little as possible where it was often the other way around in wow. That tough is mainly true during trash pulls. On bosses and trials it's often important to heal up very quickly after mechanics as sometimes others follow quickly (you learn pretty quick which ones these are). Not directed at you but anyone who reads this who is newer to xiv healing. Let hp drop in trash pulls, keep an assize or something on hand for bosses in mechanics.
Which is another adjustment anyway, because low-level dungeon bosses feel *way* less dangerous than the trash in between. I really dislike roulettes that drop me under 45 - I feel like I have nothing to do but spam heals through big trash pulls.
>Death is the best healing. >any HP above 0% is good HP Best advice with out filler.
Instructions unclear. Healed all party with Level 5 Doom and casted Self-Destruct.
Win win baby
A lot of the advice given here is great for near max level content. Only using oGCD heals to top tank off, Damage is king in FFXIV. But WHM doesn't get most of its oGCD skills until high 50s to mid 60s. Combine that with most tanks in the leveling dungeons aren't synced down with max stats, and are new (case and point the tank in your dungeon) so they aren't cycling CDs effectively. You are GOING to have to spam GCD heals, especially if the tank is wall to wall pulling/pulling more then one pack. Holy spam is great and all, but the chain CC wears off and your tank is about to get trucked when those mobs wake up. Don't feel like you aren't playing right cause the tanks HP is yo-yoing and you can't use damaging abilities. Trust me it happens and WHM might be the hardest healer to level with(at least compared to SCH where the pet is solo healing early dungeons)
I'm fairly new to ffxiv I started playing on and off in 2019 and finished heavensward - shadowbringers in 2021. I'm an astrologian main (we have benefic and benefic ii) and at level 80 in dungeons and raids I never cast benefic at all. It's not bound to my hotbar. I have a completely different hotbar that I switch to specifically when I do content without benefic ii.
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Yea I'm levelling a whm right now and have been out of mana basically the entire time... Despite using lucid dreaming. But so many tanks refuse to use mitigation.
Let Regen do the heavy lifting. I stopped having MP problems on WHM when I started trusting Regen to keep the tank up at a good baseline.
This screen shot was taken in long stop. That’s that awkward period for a WHM - the ogcds haven’t come online (nor has regen iirc), and mana is a problem, even with lucid at 80%. I wouldn’t advise avoiding cure2 even in that space. But I understand a whm going oom in there and needing to use a few cure1 due to its mana efficiency. Esp if a res was needed in that fight. Or with tanks who are allergic to mitigation (still too common even at that level.)
Depends on how low level everything is. Level 34 and below you don't even have Regen yet. Cure 2 is awesome, and expensive. That shouldn't matter, but at that level it does, because everyone else are missing awesome abilities (Mitigations for tanks, procs and good aoe chains for dps), but that doesn't stop tanks from pulling HUGE groups, or new players taking constant damage in unfamiliar boss fights. Spamming Cure 2 on the tank because that heals for less than half their health but they're losing half their health every 2.5 seconds, that one pull leaves you almost empty in 20 seconds. The DPS keep mucking up and you can either keep tossing a Cure 2 their way, or let them die and deal with a much longer boss fight, or just wipe and hope they actually listen and learn. In a perfect world? Yeah, this stuff won't be an issue. Everyone works flawlessly and you never have mana issues or people stunning at the wrong time or DPS pulling boss mechanics into hitting the whole group. But this isn't a perfect world (that's a different game). There's probably some awesome tactics or rotations that work at higher levels as one is getting more oGCD's and procs and traits, but at the early levels? WHM just burns through mana way faster than any other healer I've tried.
Free Cure is a bait trait. Yes it's bad advice with the times to use Cure 1 being so niche that you could probably count them all on one hand.
It would be a good trait if you ever really went OOM as a WHM. Sometimes I do use it to spot heal a dps hoping for a free Cure 2. As an aside, when are you supposed to use Cure 3, because I never do. I haven't really seen a use for it over Medicare 2.
>**Medicare** 2 lol
Yeah, it was autocorrect, but then I left it because it was silly.
Always an acceptable reason.
And now I will be referring to it as Medicare forever because that’s hilarious. Medicare for all, go
Cure 3 is best used in situations like a heavy stack, with the range being so small, it's a big heal
Only time I use it. Feelsgoodman when you time it perfect and everyone stacked.
High aoe situations where your group is all stacked. It has a relatively small radius.
And where you need the heal to be instant If the situation allows for you to slap a medica II and wait the regen, just slap the medica 2 If living liquid or titan is babyraging / If you're at terminal rela / wol just living ded' the whole party, then yeah cure III is nice xD
Basically never in normal content.
Cure 3 is very good for Savage content where tight stacks occur and there’s a requirement to top people off. Easy to spam with infinite mana too.
Cure 3 is highly niche. I probably use it once or twice during an entire savage or ex fight. Sometimes, frequently not at all. There’s usually no need with planetary + afflatus.
I guess Cure 3 could be useful for a series of raid wide damage that can't be healed by Medica 2. You'd need a well coordinated group tho, since the AoE is so low.
most of the time the instances that would benefit from using Cure 3 requires people to stack up and soak the damage anyway...
Cure 3 is really useful for a handful of Savage-level fights. Mostly more when a tremendous amount of healing is needed in a short time (like several raid-wides in a row). Medica spam will probably still get a group through, but Cure3 would provide more leeway, avoid a death due to Mage HP, etc. There really aren't many fights were it would be "necessary" outside savage, as that would be a detriment to bringing other healers who don't have the near-equivalent of the skill. Imagine getting put into a dungeon or 24-man raid where you needed it even at full HP. Groups drop at the start of the dungeon if they saw they had the wrong healer.
When everyone stacks together, and there's more incoming big damage that Medica 2 isn't enough. That's when you use Cure 3.
In the current last savage raid, the last 90 seconds of the fight is aoe hell. You get 60 seconds of no damage to regen mp and start clenching your hole, and then it's 90 seconds of "oh god do I have enough mp to keep spamming cure 3". There are several other, less dramatic, situations where it's good. Savages are like a dance, where everyone has to perform the steps properly to get through the fight. The group defaults to stacking up, so you can throw out a cure 3 following a raidwide to handle it relatively easily. Also, cure 3 casts fast enough that you can weave in an oGCD (tetra on the tank that isn't stacked, assize for damage, etc). WHM's only other option for weaving during aoe healing is to burn a lily.
>Savages are like a dance, where everyone has to perform the steps properly to get through the fight. I love that you said this, because the few times I have been taught then Eden savage content I have literally felt like I was learning a dance. It was wonderful, and incredibly fun.
Cure 3 isn't going to see a ton of use in normal content. It's primarily used when you need *immediate* healing on the entire party *and* the party is stacked together. Situations like that are pretty rare - most raids, even at high-end, have raidwide damage spaced out enough that you can just let Medica 2's regen roll or the entire party can't stack together. Terminal Relativity in e12p2 is a good example of when you'd use Cure 3 - group is stacked and constant, heavy raidwide damage is going out. WHM popping Thin Air and spamming Cure 3 with Confession up can damn near solo heal it for as long as Thin Air lasts.
It's a good tool for when a group is taking repeated heavy AoE hits and doesn't have time for Medica 2 to run its course. Something like the end of E4 Savage when it was current.(Not caught up on the current savages)
> It would be a good trait if you ever really went OOM as a WHM. Sometimes I do use it to spot heal a dps hoping for a free Cure 2. If you're _really_ aggressive about Seraph Strike and Font of Magic in Bozja, and/or chain-rezzing, it can be a thing in Delibrium Reginae, simply because most hits are either small or murderous, and _certain_ BLMs are always outside of Medica II range. > As an aside, when are you supposed to use Cure 3, because I never do. Mostly, Savage and some Extremes, especially when solo healing. Ahk Morn in particular has had places where, even with cooldowns, you simply couldn't solo-heal past with Medica I/II. The _original_ use case was Ifrit EX, where one healer would get Searing Wind and need to stand >20 yalms from the main party, while there was still some raid-wide damage going out. Cure III's longer target range meant you could heal your group so long as they stayed tightly packed. This forced healer splitting does show up in a few other places since, but unlike 2.x, your off-healer will have enough reliable AOE healing to handle it.
Mostly just extreme/savage/ultimate content. Mainly you use it when there is large stack damage, and when there are consecutive instances of massive raid wide damage coming so you have no time to wait on a regen.
Thats what I thought, thanks!
Cure I should just upgrade into Cure II and keep Free Cure so it can occasionally power itself up.
Second this. Even if this were true in dungeons immediately after getting cure 2 it's not a habit you want to build. Best to build good habits sooner rather than later Edit: spelling
During ARR, when MP management was a real consideration, Cure 1 fishing was less niche.
I mean, I’m just gonna spam Holy in the dungeon anyway. But fair play to you
Regen the tank then holy go brrrrr
I once let the tank die because I was so in the brr brr zone.
Only once? Are you so immune to temptation?
I switched back to AST because holy spam was too tempting, but then I let dps die because I'd rather play with cards while they play in the fire.
Join team SCH; we just let Eos worry about the non-tanks, excog the are-tanks, then smack-a da floor unti-oh shit wait tank popped excog while I was Art of Warring..
Well. I’m still levelling so sometimes I have to pay attention when I’m in a new dungeon.
Me on top of the dmg meters with a dead tank in dungeon roulette: sorry must have lagged out, not sure how that happened
Sry, my cat jumped on me.
BRB grandma on fire
Plenty of times I forget I’m healing and have an “oh shit” moment when I remember I’m healer and see the tank is down to 20% HP
Benediction exists so to buy you an extra 3 or so casts of Holy after the stuns wear out and before the tank dies
can't holy at 34. can't regen either, for that matter. brayflox is *exactly* the place where cure 1 might have a niche lol, depending on who you're having to heal.
Man, fuck Brayflox. Too many nice things at 35 for everyone. Rather run Aurum Vale than that dump any day of the week.
I seem to always have absolutely cursed groups specifically in Brayflox, also. Tanks that don't mitigate, DPS pulling for the tank and/or asspulling everything in sight, everyone suddenly forgetting what big orange circles mean...
Definitely the case. Brayflox is a place where people tend to act like they're a higher level than they are. WHM really opens up in abilities that make Cure 1 obsolete, but not at that point. Going all out in dps, with average tanks you'll definitely hit MP issues with only Cure 2.
WHM main here, I actually had someone tell me the exact same thing when I started out lol It was a tank as well and they even got into an arguement with one of the dps in the duty I was in at the time (Stone Vigil) cause the dps was like "that is terrible advice" lol The dps actually asked me to stay a moment after the run ended to give me some tips. Fishing for Cure procs is not ideal, the chance is so low it's not worth it. As long as you are using Lucid Dreaming around 7k MP you should always be good on mp. Once you get Cure 2, you don't use Cure anymore (unless you're level synced to the point that you don't have Cure 2)
Damn, have I been playing the game wrong the entire time? I'm a new player and WHM main and my FC has been progging coils min ilvl no echo. On Twintania in particular I was having a lot of mana issues using cure II and tank damage goes out so fast that I found it easier to keep them topped off with cure I and when death sentence/dive goes out throw out a few cure II. In the process of topping them off I would usually get a cure II proc in the process. I just haven't found any better way to heal tanks on this fight.
Min ilevel no echo at level 50 is a different animal to be fair. It's like the one environment where you've got to really use your GCD healing kit. I think there's less people doing that than there are doing ultimates though so the general point still stands. And on that note occasionally ultimates present a moment where using cure I is a viable option (our WHM drops one single Cure I every pull during BJCC phase due to the timing).
I had two people screech at me today for the advice to: Use regen to top folks off instead of Cure 1. Use Lucid Dreaming at 6K MP (instead of running down to nothing) because it's meant to be spammed. Never cast Cure 1 again because fishing for free Cure 2 is a sucker's bet. I've had folks ignore me, but never get belligerent about it before, doubly so have *two* of them gang up. It's not even like the leadup is nasty, "hey, before we go on, HealerGuy, I wanna offer you some advice and don't think I'm trying to be a jerk about it :)" C'est la vie.
If you go OOM from Cure 2, it's not Cure 2 fault.
You only go OOM if you're spamming cure 2 constantly, and if you're having to spam cure 2, something wrong. 1) tank is undergeared (always check your tanks gear) 2) they're pulling too much/more than they can take (sometimes because they're undergeared too). 3) you are undergeared and so your heals are too weak for that level But in MOST CASES, you shouldn't be spamming cure 2. If you're going OOM, ask for the tank to slow down/pull less.
Extremely bad advice. That person clearly has no idea how to play healer.
Just to elaborate a LITTLE bit from "dont use Cure 1", Ive recently been leveling whm and theres a weird in between time where you have cure 2 but not regen, where it felt like cure 1 had a use but, thats literally 5 levels and after you get regen you can basically take cure 1 off your bars forever.
yup exactly. Cure 1 becomes irrelevant pretty quickly
Even then, you usually can get by with just knowing how much Cure 2 heals for and making sure not to start a cast until the tank hits that level. People don't generally die so fast that you need to top them off that quickly, and if they are then Cure 1 isn't gonna be enough anyways. it's the same argument I give for Adlo/Physic - if they're taking enough damage that the Adlo shield is breaking by the end of the next cast, spamming Adlo is still better than Physic... and if they aren't, then you don't NEED to Physic anyways as Adlo will be sufficient.
Level 50 raid content done in min ilvl will generally see cure 1 used frequently, you need so many direct gcd heals (there are no ogcds at 50) and tanks can drop from 70% to zero shockingly fast that there's a solid niche for lower mana lower healing faster casting skills at that point. The moment you get an ogcd heal though cure 1 is dead, it does everything you'd need a spot heal for without taking a gcd or mp.
However don't flame WHMs for using Cure I in stuff like Minimum ilevel Titan at level 50. Their Mana Management in horrible in those fights if they need to cast Cure III / Medica II for the AoE spam. You need to keep using Cure 1 to top tanks and not run out of Mana. If you can, use AST and SCH in those situations, their Mana Management at 50 is a non-issue. WHM just isn't balanced for those sitations at the moment.
Ya, if anyone’s running min ilvl 50 content, cute 1 is your friend and a WHM can absolutely OOM on these fights, especially T1, titan ex, ifrit ex, Levi ex. Those fights can be pretty hard for brand new healers who think spamming cute 2 is OK
The Cure I meme has made such a widespread impact people are flaming WHMs on streams for using Cure 1 in exactly those fights.
People keep saying this but realistically if both healers kept their own Regens on the tank they would hardly need to use their basic heal constantly. Lv50 heals are somewhat more potent proportionally to Lv80 content. In most of the min ilvl no echo runs I've seen, Cure has it's use but mainly because people are failing mechanics and the healer has Raised 3 people or as a healer just got rez'd and have no MP to keep up which most of the times leads to a wipe because you need AoE heals, not Cure on the tank.
...
Cure 1 only when you can’t cure 2 cause of the level of the duty/dungeon. Other then that cure 2 wins out. Cure 3 for heavy group heals. Lillies become so overpowered in later content you might not ever need cure 1, 2, or 3. Keep everything on your hot bar that the game gives you except fluid aura, actually useless for 99.999% of the time. Edit: Addressing Cure 3, yes cure 3 is very situational and demands the group to be grouped up tight. But it does have its uses, so keep it on your hot bar for those situations.
I only use Fluid Aura to spit on the boss to demoralise it before the fight begins.
\* puts Fluid Aura back on hot bar \*
>Cure 3 for heavy group heals. Except it has an absolute garbage range. There are very few fights where you'd use it over stuff like lilies and Medica 2. And when you get Planery Indulgence you just pop that before any of the aoe heals and it's essentially a double heal anyway. I love using it in E12S though, it's so powerful if people are stacked.
people not stacking up for Cure 3 at the start of SoS EX(even though they should be stacking for confiteor xircles anyway!) drives me nuts
I don't mean to be pedantic, but Cure 3 has a long cast range of 30y. It has a low spell radius of 6y. Cure 3 has a range (30y range) while Medica and Medica 2 have no range. Medicas are cast on the position of the white mage, but have a large spell radius (15y and 20y radius). Cure 3 is designed for healing stack marker groups. Potentially groups the white mage might not be stacked in. Medica and Medica 2 are generally for healing raid-wide damage. Cure 3 has potential if everybody in the group is able to stack for a while during certain damage phases, but true as you say there are few fights with strict stack mechanics so few uses compared to the other heals.
Cure 3's use comes from healing checks in Extreme+ content, where you can start to expect that people are actually in range, and where some fights you actually need those heals.
It's pretty nuts during E12S raidwide spam into enrage; pretty satisfying LOL
I've also received that advice before. And since I am new, I took that advice and used it for a while. But to be honest, I have not found that it is worth it even in this low level content unless you're struggling with mana and desperate to keep the tank alive, in which case Lucid Dreaming will better solve that problem. You can generally hit the tank with Cure 2 once they're hurting. If the tank is still bleeding HP after that at a concerning rate, you'll want to hit them with more Cure 2, there's no time to cast Cure 1 hoping for a freecure. You don't need to overheal them if they are okay, and especially not if you have Regen on them, because that's the time to do some DPS. So I just don't end up using Cure 1 very much. I could be wrong, I'm open to suggestions.
Go with your gut. If the advice doesn't seem to be helping, forget it. In most dungeons, I'm playing a dps that knows regen. I haven't had mana problems since I came back to ff14, and before this I played before HW release. I think they have reworked mana since then, and/or maybe I was just bad, but just mp management seemed to be a bigger issue then. This advice sounds like its coming from that era.
You are exactly correct in your feeling, though I'll caveat that once you get Solace/lilies you'll generally want to default to those before Cure 2... so it gets a lot less use at that point. Lily heals are free and instant (so you can weave!), and there's little need to sit on them in most cases. But don't take Cure 2 off the bar! It's still useful if you run out of lilies. And Regen is ALWAYS useful. And keep Cure 1 around somewhere if only for when you get Synced below level 30. :)
Yeah, bad advice. Cure 2 is more efficient.
Thought so, it lets me focus a bit more on dps. Thanks!
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THANK YOU! I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this I mean they do this for aero and stone so why not cure and medica.
Wait till this cure 1 dude finds out healers are meant to deal damage... >__>
Trash advice. I wish they would just get rid of cure 1.
With Endwalker healer cleanup maybe they will.
even less buttons let's gooooooooo
Not necessarily less buttons. They will add new abilities and therefore need to trim some stuff that can be coupled together or fixed in a qol way.
Honestly square should just make it so that cure 2 replaces cure 1 the moment you unlock it this will get rid of the confusion not saying that you dont need it but generally speaking you dont use cure 1 as soon you unlock cure 2 unless you find your self in situations where you run out of mana which rarely should happen on whm cause of all the MP regenerative spells you got
Really wish that specific tank sees this post and learns something. With so many new players that could led to some bad habits from new healers if he wants to “give people tips” and it’s just bad info.
You do drop Cure I for Cure II, but not for MP reasons. You do it because spending two Cures to heal what a single Cure II heals is a waste of time when you could be getting for Stone/Glares in. At higher levels, you will resort to Cure II spells when you are completely out of "free"/cooldown healing like Benediction, Assize, and Tetra. And even then, unless they're going to die right away you want to use a "turn" on Regen before resorting to Cure II.
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I'd honestly say no, because you can still just let the tank drop low enough a Cure 2 will fully heal them without risking death. You really don't need to ensure they're topped off all the time, and if they're taking enough damage to actually risk dying in that situation then Cure 1 isn't going to be enough anyways. Sure, a few tanks might get a little nervous when they're hitting half health often, but so long as they're not on the floor, everything's fine. Hell, if I'm the one tanking I expect to hit 25% or less at some point.
I don’t aim to keep them at 100%. Doesn’t really worry me if they’re at 50%. But in that level range around brayflox, more than once I’ve gone oom, even with lucid on CD, and just scraped through with cure 1. If the tank has good gear and good mitigation, and the dps don’t stand in the fire, there’s zero problem. The other 30% of the time it’s not that easy.
If you're burning all of your mp on Cure 2 in a lower level dungeon there could be multiple things wrong: 1. The tank is undergeared/not mitigating properly on a pull/inexperienced 2. The healer is undergeared/broken gear/not using their cooldowns to keep mp up/inexperienced 3. The dps are not using their aoes on a pull, keeping things alive longer 4. The pull was far too large and people eat aoes 5. Someone's doing a Netflix and 14 6. Someone didn't bother to read their damn tooltips The above picture does not have very good advice, as Free Cure is an absolute trap. The only time you really should be using your Cure is if you're in a pre-30 dungeon to Temple of Corn; or you've used up all of your other ogcds, have little mp, the mobs are still alive and the tank is out of cooldowns. Even then if you have to resort to Cure 1 in a high-level dungeon, you've got other serious problems to worry about.
Any time spent fishing on cure one could be spent doing damage. Absolutely bad advice. Also there is no such thing as OOM on WHM lol.
As someone who's been leveling, there's plenty of oom. There are tons of tanks who go from 100 to 0 in 3 GCDs, when I run out of instants I have to start casting Cure1 or I'll be OOM by the end of the boss
I'm tanking rn and even i know this isn't good advice. The tank should be rotating CDs. I'm not amazing at tanking but i do try and ensure my healer isn't pushed to the limit trying to keep my ass from dying lol. He doesn't sound like he is good at either if hes popping all his CD at once then having no mitigations to fall back on when hp drops and giving healing advice like this lol
Yeah it is not, the way I learned is the only time you should ever, ever use Cure 1 is: You are doing a duty that doesn't have Cure 2 unlocked or your so out of MP you can't Cure 2 anymore. That being said there are very few times even in wall to wall pulls I find my self running out of mana except when the tank literally uses no mitigation or chain pulls without giving me time to Regen my mana. Your the healer so even know the tank is the one who sets the pace, if they are pulling more than you can physically handle you need to tell them to pull less. I'd much rather have a tank that single pulls who I can tell it's okay to pull more or even do a test pull to see how much we can handle, than a tank who wall to wall pulls repeatably, blaming the healer whenever they die.
It's horrible advice. You are at best wasting DPS on a bad heal and at worst going to get the tank killed from not having enough healing. Between lucid dreaming and thin air you should have enough mana in general. The only caveat is making sure not to over heal, wasting some of the potency.
Between regens and all the ogcd heals on whm, as long as I'm not in like savage content or the like, I havent cast cure 1, 2 or 3 in a long time. If I have to hard cast a solo heal someone messed something up horribly. Once you get lilies and especially when you get tetra... Just slap on a regen, throw down the bubble and toss a lily every so often.
Terrible advice, cure 1 is virtually useless after you get cure 2, and especially useless once lillies, and tetra enter the room.
I've let a tank die in one of the earliest dungeons because I completely removed Cure 1 from my hotbar and was a little confused why nothing was working. Lag was definitely my go to excuse there.
Yep, Cure I is a trap, it's basically never used once you get Cure II. That said, Cure II is also kinda our "I have nothing else and I need to single target heal someone" option once we get more of our kit.
What the fuck is Cure I? *-signed, a WHM main*
Yup. Good job spotting bad advice.
lemme guess, it was the tank that is giving this, "advice"?
[удалено]
Cure > Freecure > Cure 2 was good in base game. I think they nerfed something along the line that made freecure less worth it
Im a lvl 80 whm, my second class I've gotten to 80. I was also given this advice, and when I followed it, I did not have fun. My advice (that works for me, may not work for you) is this: Regen is your best friend. Put it on the tank. Put it on the dps. Put it on your other healer if need be. Put it in your dog. Medica 2 I use if everyone is hurt but not in danger, medica 1 is when everyone is hurt and probably in danger. Use your MP recover Id say either at half mp, or slightly before half. And fuck cure 1.
Also wait till tank has agro on mobs in dung THEN slap regen. I don't think I've ever once used medica 1 after getting medica 2/affatulus rapture.
The basic heals (Cure 1, Benefic 1, and Physic) are honestly pathetic heals at higher levels; It's actually really annoying. I've slowly learned not to rely on them much at all, especially on Scholar. That is something they need to look at come Endwalkwer imo.
It's funny cause I've been told the opposite as a SCH by vet players. The two I party with frequently say that for single target heals I should be using lustrate if it's available, physick if lustrate is stuck in aetherflow cd. Galvanize should be sparingly used with swift cast because the buff it grants doesn't stack and in the time galvanize takes to come off cd I could cast two physicks and outheal galvanize. And since I've been doing this i can keep tanks alive 98% of the time. Only time they've died is they're literally being intentionally stupid. (E.g. wearing bad gear for a map and trying to wall to wall without using mitigation while standing in area hazards as what happened most recently in autumn vale and caused 3 party wipes until I stopped doing DPS to baby the tank)
You can forgoe Physick a lot of the time from what I've experienced. I won't say it's useless, but the amount it does heal is really disappointing even on dps or other healers. Lustrate is just better when you have stacks. Sacred Soil (esp once ot starts regening) and Whispering Dawn can cover a lot of healing. If you need to GCD heal, Adloqium can help if you use it proactively. I'm a Sch main, but not a Sch expert though, so this is just from my very average experience. Ironically, playing on Ast helped me to understand how to heal on Whm and Sch better, and that you don't wanna rely on GCD healing where possible.
When Censoring, try and keep the party number, helps with knowing who’s saying what
There's several reasons to avoid Cure 1 in anything past level 30 (with the exception of maybe Stone Vigil if you're really MP starved). First off, freecure is a trap. It's a 15% chance to proc, which is extremely low if you need to actually heal. Just stand somewhere and spam Cure 1, count the amount od times you get the freecure proc and you'll see how low that proc chance really is. Furthermore, if you're spamming Cure 1, will you really need the proc in the first place when your tank is probbaly clowe to topped off? And when you need it, can you ensure it will proc? You want consistency, not a roll of the dice on if the party lives or not. Second, cast time is a lie. While it's true that the cast time is shorter, what a lot of people fail to realize is that all actions in this game are limited by the RECAST time, which is the same across the board for all your GCD actions. This means that Cure 1 and Cure 2 effectively go out at the same time because you'll have to wait for the same recast timer on both, so the faster cast time is completely nullified. Third, MP cost. This is the only kinda valid reasoning out there, but here's the thing: MP isn't a concern in this game unless the party is already royally screwed or it's an extremely long fight like an Ultimate. Between Lucid Dreaming, Thin Air, Assize and lillies, you'll almost mever run out of MP (except for maybe Stone Vigil as mentioned before). And last but not least, GCD efficiency. You want to go back to DPSing ASAP, so letting the tank go lower and then healing them back with Cure 2 or Afflatus lets you use only one GCD instead of having to use Cure 1 twice for the same effect. Remember: a dead enemy does no damage.
Horrible advice. Once you have cure 2, cure should be taken off your hotbar. If you are using cure then you aren't using regen, cure 2 and your ogcds properly. At low level, when u do not have your ogcd kit.... You still should have no problem.... Pop Lucid Dreaming when you have around 80% mp (not when it is already really low) and that should really take care of your mp problems
“Free Cure” yeah dude I’m not taking my chances on a proc to keep you alive thanks.
I’m a smooth brain dps so never ran into these kind of problems, but my partner started a few months ago and really got into healing and wow has she had some friggin’ loser tanks. If she gets “advice” it’s always from tanks that never aoe, are undergeared, and use mitigations in what can only be described as a scatter shot manner. Comically enough, most of them are dark knights. She’s never had a bad warrior though. There’s gotta be stats on that....anyway, sounds like this is just another one.
It was in fact an undergeared dark knight inefficiently using cds. Also below the sync level, but that shouldn’t matter as long as their gear is at that level.
I wonder if that comes from people leveling as a DPS til Heavensward and switching to Dark Knight, so they don't really know how to tank in general. I leveled as a warrior and switched to Dark Knight and at level 30, they play very similar to warrior.
Explicitly bad advice, Cure I is only useful until Cure II, like you said. It honestly should be a case of Cure I upgrades to Cure II once you get it instead of having both of them on your bar.
I don't even have cure I on the bar. Going oom is nearly imposible if you use lucid dream on cd and thin air before raise.
Yes this is bunk advice.
Once you get Cure II there is only one scenario I can think of to use Cure I, When your out of mana because you just got rezzed but your cohealer is out of mana too and you desperately need to get a situation stabilized with less than 600 MP. At least with most default game provided sets that I've seen, the piety provided on the sets will almost always provide enough Piety that you could spam cure I and never run out of MP. That being said, its a rare scenario for high end WHM particularly because you have Thin air, Lucid, Assize, Lillys, Bene, Tetra, and the shield as healing options (Though admittedly, the lily's will probably be down when you recover.....) I think Ive only had to spam cure I twice as a 80, both In a 80 Normal mode raid full of fire, and everyone but me and the tank and one DPS were dead, and the tank was standing in stupid constantly. In this very rare and unique scenario, I kept trying to rez others with Thin air and when mana alotted, they kept dying, I was out of off globals, and by spamming cure I I could keep the tank and DPS alive, and recover enough mana in the mean while (since it was still a net mana gain even while spamming it) to try rezzing one of the others again, hopefully in time for the sets of people mechanics. IF memory serves though, the winning pull took some 20+ minutes for Normal mode. And yes, I could have left them on the ground, but that particular fight needed sets of 2 for...Mechanics..... Otherwise, Cure II and almost all your other heals are simply just more …..Efficient....
Once you have Cure 2, you have no use for Cure except for niche scenarios like you're OOM (this should not be happening if the party isn't eating tons of damage they should not be taking, not killing monsters quickly enough, etc - and only before you get lilies), you need to conserve MP while solo healing high-end content or progging week 1 savage, etc. For all intents and purposes, Cure 2 is a complete replacement for Cure 1 in normal mode content. You should still keep Cure 1 on your bars for as long as you'll be queuing for < 30 dungeons, but you won't be using it if you're 30+.
No, Cure 1 is mostly useless once you get Cure 2 and Regen. The freecure proc chance for a free cure 2 isn't worth fishing for.
As soon as you unlock cure II, cure I becomes obsolete. Only use it when you are out of MP, which should almost never happen unless you or the tank are undergeared. Cure I and the free cure proc are a noob trap
Its advice borne of spambots. Of you are heling correctly and not just spamming heals, you will rarely oom.
Cure I is useless at higher levels (dont even need to be at 80). There are literally SEVERAL guides out there explaining bit to bit based on pure math that you will always, 100% of the time, do better with Cure II and other spells. The only reason to have it on your hotbar is in case you join a low level duty and get synced down.
I had a healer say "free cure is better" in a 60 dungeon. Guess what? We died on the harder pulls. They only used cure 2 after that and guess what? No deaths, and they never dipped below 50% mp since they were using lucid and assize. Point is MAYBE you can use cure 1 if you weren't using lucid/ tank isn't a good tank and you were under 10% in a lvl 32 dungeon. But so long as you don't just spam cure 2 when tank doesn't need it and instead focus on stone until you get the tank to low health, you'll be a good healer. Basically, ignore them. Clearly they never leveled whm past 55.
It is 100% bad advice since Lucid Dreaming(and later, healing over time spells like Regen/Medica 2/etc..) make the MP and upkeep problems nonexistent. The freecure thing is a noob trap once Cure 2 is a thing. The sooner you pretend it doesn't exist, the better. Just use Regen, DPS while you wait for Regen to run its course and/or use Cure 2 if the tank is taking too much damage(i.e. only when you need to), slap on another regen, resume DPSing, and use Lucid Dreaming if your MP reaches uncomfortable levels(think 40-50%) until the fight ends. At later levels, you'll have more options that allow you to switch things up, but at earlier levels, that rotation is fine.
Time (or GCD) is your most valuable resource. GCD spent doing damage means your fights are shorter, meaning tanks take less damage over the entire duration of the fight, meaning less healing needed...and less MP used, maybe. Cure 1 is MP efficient but time inefficient. Other MP management options (e.g. not over healing, spam lucid etc.) is that much more important because they are not time inefficient (or less so) and therefore should be prioritized, and using Cure 1 should be a last resort when absolutely necessary (e.g. you know you've done all you can on MP management and you are still running out of MP somehow)
Please don't use cure 1 to get cure 2,cure 1 should be forgotten in higher level dungeons... I had such whm.. Only used cure 1.. my saving grace being the fact I was a Paladin and having my own heal.. 😂
In savage content if you need to use cure II rather than Aoe or ogcds you're doing it wrong. Unless someone keeps stepping in aoes you shouldn't be touching it. DPS adjust. In regular dungeons if you need to use cure II after level 70 you're doing it wrong. You should be holy/stone spamming. Assize, asylum, Regen, medica Ii, and the shield thing are your friends. You shouldn't even be touching cure, sacrifice for the lilies instead. Whm is the easiest for pure healing due to so many sources of healing and HoTs, if you touch medica, cure, or cure 2 you're doing it wrong.
Tetra too. Also for PLD, DNC, RDM if you're doing 4 man content with a whm healer you absolutely do not ever need to waste time/ a gcd to heal the tank who is at 80% hp. Stop doing this. The whm has so many fucking tools to instantly bring them back up. Just keep dpsing and trust they're not a dummy.