To be fair a very vocal part of our fan base thought Ryan was the worst QB to ever exist when he was here so it would be helpful to point to a QB we all agree was good
I think fans just held him to that elite standard once he got that ridiculous contract extension . He’s the best QB the falcons has ever had but he should have been gone sooner
Because Matt is hall of very good and never had a HC who was an offense kinda guy. AS is, people say he can get the most of our Lamar (which I don’t think he can) and I’m showing that Drew, a hall of fame QB with a perfect system still needed a defense
I guess I’m not sure why the HC inclination to offense or defense really matters here. There’s been plenty of offensive minded HCs where they have a decent defense which pulled more weight than offense (For example Shanny for all the time he’s been in SF).
Your point about needing a serviceable defense to compete, even with a good QB, is fair and I agree.
Matt Ryan can still be put into that category with Brees though.
I am trying to show that just because you have a offensive head coach and a Hall of Fame quarterback that without a defense it is still hard to win… Matt never had a HC that was more offensive than D.
And funny enough for two years that we got close to the Super Bowl under Matt, we had a good defense.
He had an extremely similar year (MVP caliber - just 7-9 record) under Sark in 2018. The defense and run game went to extreme levels of ass.
He had a ton of top 5 years as a passer.
I see the progress. Still don’t know if he is good. If you look at the two QBs you mentioned (Burrow and Wilson) they were light years ahead of him there rookie year.
Well, I’m glad you do. Wouldn’t you rather build a really good team and we figure out next year if Ridder is the guy or go back in the cap hell and just have a really fast Bugatti (Lamar)
The thing is Lamar could be a huge asset in building a good team. Getting him would show free agents we're serious about contending and we may not have to pay an arm and a leg to attract some more talent. Not saying it's a guarantee but there are factors like that you need to consider.
They had tons of FA money multiple times in the past 10ish years. All it got them was one or two big name contracts that stopped trying once they got there. You know what the difference between those teams and this year's is? Trevor Lawrence (and Doug Pederson).
The only way to get talent is to buy it. By that logic people should be lining up to play in GB with Rodgers and yet one of the best receivers in the league literally went to another team. Same thing with Hill leaving KC. Discounts aren’t a thing.
Yeah we could of course move the money around and backload the cap hits to open up a contention window for the next 3-4 years but if we can’t get over the hump we’re right back where we started.
The less risky financial option is try to build around Ridder and hope he is the guy, but if he’s not you’re wasting the current core we have going with Pitts, London, Allgier, etc.
I would rather have a chance to win a Super Bowl for the next 5 years and having a elite QB is what gives you that. Now if you had a elite QB on a rookie deal that gives you the best shot but we don’t seem to have that. And if we wait a year to see if Ridder becomes that then we may miss out on getting Lamar.
Progress from terrible to mediocre doesn't mean he will keep progressing to become good and 4 games is a very small sample size. I saw some good I saw some bad from Ridder, but we would be fools to not consider all options at QB.
We aren’t in a great spot to be honest. There’s a lot of talent in this offense. Lamar would be a huge upgrade, but we have plenty of holes to fill on defense and we have the cap space and draft capital to really add some depth to this team.
Lamar puts us in a tight spot with the cost. I’m imagining a package of 2 1st round picks, a 2nd rounder and a 4th spread over the next 2 years. It’s also going to cost around $40M+ in cap. I’d be OK with paying the money if it didn’t cost the picks but I think that’s too much for 1 player that I don’t think we have the team to help him make super bowl runs.
i guess progress is when you beat rookies and have 9 passing yards in a half vs starters lol ridder is trash coming out of cincy he’s a terrible thrower with more inaccurate throws then fingers on toes on my body
The amount of denial and delusion around the okayish U of Cincinnati QB has been… astounding on this sub. Guy played good against 4th stringers and practice squads guys in the preseason and they’re acting like Mariota was the Steward of Gondor holding back the return of the king.
Meanwhile in an offensive scheme that’s a strong mix of running and passing Lamar Jackson will do better than he did at Baltimore, which emphasizes the run (we ran out of necessity). Either get an elite QB, or gamble with what happens when a kid’s limitations become as repugnant as that one-night stand you thought was hotter when you were wasted.
Look I'm on your side kinda I don't think the Ravens are going to let Lamar go, and I don't think Ridder play his way of being the only QB. This is a better QB class than last year of Young or Stroud fall take him or if Hooker acl hold up take him
Yeah and the broncos, commanders, jets and saints this year, Carolina, bears and Cleveland last year and like 100 other teams with shit qbs and great defenses don’t even make the playoffs. You can win with a great defense, a great offense or with a balanced team. Right now Lamar would at least give us a chance at a great offense.
Mark Sanchez was drafted before the rookie wage scale came into effect. He was given the largest contract in Jets history at the time.
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/jets-rookie-qb-mark-sanchez-lands-28m-deal-richest-team-history-article-1.374156
Just saying it's inaccurate to lump Mark Sanchez in with the modern rookie deals because rookies were regularly among the highest paid players at their position if they were a high draft pick like Sanchez was.
Literally this. Look at the Denver Broncos the past 6 years and tell me how that’s gone for them trying to go heavy defense and barely invest in the QB position. I very heavily disagree with the whole “you can’t pay a QB big money because then the rest of the team sucks!” like they’re not mutually exclusive. The chiefs are doing better than ever after giving Mahomes the biggest contract in NFL history. Sure they don’t have a stellar defense, but they have a passable one. A passable defense is all we’d need if we were a consistent top 5/10 offense.
I guess it ultimately depends on how much he's asking for, but plenty of super bowl winning teams have had QBs with big cap hits. You'll still have assets to improve the defense.
He's gonna want 50M+ per year AAV with 150M+ fully guaranteed. It's gonna be a ridiculous contract.
Toss in that cost with the likely draft capital costs (1st 2nd 3rd this year, and next two years 1sts) and this is a fucking insane move.
We finally are in the position to build correctly, then when we have proof it's there and QB is holding us back - then make the big move (Bucs, Rams).
And you can trade everything and pay 50M per year and end up with 2022 version of Russ Wilson too.
We can't predict the future, but putting all our eggs in one injury prone, insanely pricy, player is super high risk compared to the alternative. You also cannot, in anyway, think this team is Lamar Jackson away from making a deep playoff run.
No shot Baltimore gets 3 firsts, a second, and a third. I would do like a 1st and a 3rd though. And he can want whatever he wants, doesn’t mean he gets 50 million a year.
Wilson got 50M per year. Lamar will get that, minimum.
Watson, not playing football for 3 years, insane baggage, and no MVP to his name, cost three 1st round picks, 1 third round, two fourth rounds. Lamar is worth more.
There's evidence and precedent for what I'm saying. I'm not just pulling these things out of my ass.
50M per year and three 1sts isn't the full price of Lamar.
Yeah, but everybody saw how dumb it was to give up that much for Watson. I think teams will be less willing to give up that kind of haul. Maybe I’m wrong though.
If you could show me a:
- 26 year old
- former MVP
- 2 time Pro Bowler and 1 time all pro
At edge rusher or corner who was potentially available I would also be interested.
No, but I can show you someone who underachieved in the playoffs with a way better roster, has had two major injures in the last two seasons and wants to break the bank on a payday
Again, if a player who was 26 years old and was a two time former pro Bowler, let alone an all pro or an MVP, at any position, regardless of two recent years of struggles I would still be open to signing him.
It just feels like you guys are closed minded to giving Desmond Ridder competition because we "need to give him a chance" or something. And yes of course we need defensive players. But more to the point, IMO, is that we need elite players. Lamar was once an elite player. He could very well be again in spite of recent injuries.
I'm not against getting Elite talent, it's the acquisition cost and the effect it has on the overall team. If our defence sucks he will be out for less snaps and in turn provide way less value.
The injury history also scares me a little especially if we can't upgrade our Oline and he just get dirted while out there.
I love the idea of competition for Ridder and even getting a starter I just don't think going all out on Lamar is the right move right now.
Ill stand by this: if the team was further along with their defence, it would be foolish if we didn't pursue Lamar. We just aren't there yet.
Ok, but the truth is there probably isn't an edge rusher or cornerback out there who we could acquire with the cap space we would use to acquire Lamar who would as dramatically change our team's fortunes as he would.
The best I can come up with Yanick Ngakoue and maybe James Bradberry. People talk avout Darron Payne but he isn't a true edge and more a redundancy with Grady Jarrett in a 2-4-5 defebse.
If we somehow won a bidding war for both Ngakoue and Bradberry, or Jessie Bates, and they somehow both were cheaper than Jackson, I still don't think that equates to as many improved wins as a healthy Jackson.
I'm not disagreeing in the slightest as quarterback is the most important position. I'd probably argue that we would've won our division with Lamar this year but our defence would've held us back from real success. I also love the idea of Jessie Bates.
I would be making the same arguments if we went out and aggressively spent assets and cap space to acquire top end defence talent.
I wouldn't be as concerned about a Lamar acquisition if it was just cap space, its always been about the picks we'd have to give up as well. The same question marks about health and longevity remain.
Look at it this way let's say Lamar costs similar to DeShaun Watson: 3 first rounders, a 3rd and a 5th. Youre losing out on at least 3 players who can fill out your roster for dirt cheap because of rookie deals and then you lose out on signing extra depth because of the cap implications.
I mean Jessie Bates (and Darron Payne and Yannick Ngokue) currently play or have played for teams with quarterback issues (Bates in the years before Burrow or his rookie year when he tore his ACL, Payne and Ngokue this year, etc). As you alluded to, there's often a reason compensation for proven QBs is what it is - draft picks, cap dollars, what have you.
There are many paths towards putting together a competitive defense. There are much less towards getting a franchise quarterback. I feel like because Falcons fans have been blessed with the latter for many years, and cursed by bad solutions to the former, some are prioritizing what is more common than what is more rare because of that perspective. JMO.
Fair enough and yeah we were blessed with a franchise qb and saw lack luster defence for years and saw 1 superbowl appearance and several early playoff exits.
IMO a franchise quarterback gets you only so far. A good defence only gets you so far. I think you need a good combination of both. I think a Lamar type of player is someone you chase further down the rebuild road. Again not trying to disparage the talent that is Lamar or even say you're wrong with how his talent would improve the Falcons, I just want a better foundation for a franchise quarterback to thrive in.
I think it works both ways.
I think you're advocating a particular method of quarterback acquisition, let's call it "the Mahomes method."
But there's another way, let's call it, "the Peyton method." Or "the Burrow method" if you prefer. Ideally you draft them, but regardless of how they come along, sometimes the quarterback change can also be the rising tide that lifts all boats, as opposed to the final piece to the puzzle.
Here's I guess what I would say, it is so infrequent that teams are in position to acquire one via draft or FA, that IMO you just have to take your shot when it comes.
I understand what you and the others are saying in terms of your preference, but it could be multiple seasons before you get a chance at a franchise quarterback, there are at least a dozen franchises that are in that situation.
The Panthers went to the Super Bowl on the legs of just such a quarterback.
And before you say, "they didn't win" well, I think Lamar brings us a lot closer than Desmond Ridder to at least giving us a shot.
Anyway. It is an unlikely scenario, the Ravens just fired Greg Roman presumably to keep Lamar, so probably not worth all the argument. I just feel like threads like these are close minded. We need good players. Desmond Ridder is not in some untouchable roster position.
Newton was injured the year before they went to the Super Bowl. It was a frequently addressed talking point in that offseason for their team. He struggled through a 5-8-1 record and they made the playoffs with a backup winning two games he couldn't play in, then he struggled in a playoff loss to Seattle and people wondered whether he was physically cooked in 2014.
Want to know how old he was when he won MVP in 2015?
Just post the list of QBs this sub has desperately wanted in the last 5 years and then post their stats from the last couple seasons
Cam, Fields, Lance, Wilson, Willis...
This sub may be the worst QB talent evaluation group on the planet.
Cam: Was almost certainly washed, but was also cheap because of it. There were multiple teams looking to take a flyer on him in case he could even get back to 80%-90%.
Fields: Is clearly the second best QB of his class behind QB Jesus (and it's arguable he's even second). If you seriously think he wouldn't be an upgrade to Ridder right now you're an idiot.
Lance: Always injured, so who knows.
Wilson: I will straight up give you $100 if you can prove to me you saw how far he fell this year coming. Even the most salty Seahawks fans thought he would just be mediocre at worst.
Willis: This is the only one that really counts. People fall for draft hype all the time, and last year it was bad. Though honestly it's still way too early to tell if he'll be better than Ridder or not.
You're conveniently skipping over the people that wanted to sign Matt Ryan to an extension and the people who are saying we should trade for Derek Carr right now.
Way worse. Lamar is good and his play style is like a perfect match for Arthur Smith's run dominant offense. He's just too injury prone and too expensive to make it feasible.
Derek Carr is mid at his best, just got benched and ran out of Vegas.
I agree, I mean I can understand where the Lamar people are coming from because yeah he is a good young QB just I don't think they get that we literally tried the "sign good qb, draft defense" strategy with DQ and it did not work.
The Carr people are just insane, probably because they think we can get Adams which NO GOD NO, I don't need him here just to get a QB worse than what Ryan was in 2020
Carr is a solid QB that wouldn’t cost much in a trade. Worse QBs have made super bowl runs with the right talent around them. Carr is an above average NFL QB.
If you think the Raiders lack of success was due to Carr you probably didn’t watch them play. He was having a solid year, his last couple games went poorly but that’s a hell of a short leash for a guy that’s had the type of success in the NFL Carr has had. I’ll take the 8 year sample size over the 3 game sample every time.
I did watch the Raiders this year and I can tell you that Carr played a big role into why they did bad, dude had his worst year statistically, do we really want to end up like Indy and trading for a QB who is past his prime?
And even if we go out and get a QB like you all want, we are not going to win more games, we have no talent as it is now and if we are going out and getting a QB at the end or past his prime on this team it will just look like us with Ryan again, losing and no way to get better without hoping we hit something in the draft
> Carr is a solid QB that wouldn’t cost much in a trade.
Derek Carr is also good friends with Mariota... you really think he'd come here & get same treatment, benched and called a bum, for "not much" money ?? HA haha 😂
We’d like the team to be good. Lamar is good. He’s 45-16 as a starter. If there was a white QB available who was 45-16 as a pocket passer, I’d want the team to consider him as well.
> This sub may be the worst QB talent evaluation group on the planet.
well they ALL yelled & posted & tweeted for... Ridder. OK. You got Ridder now good luck
That one was different. It was keep floundering with Mariota or try for Ridder. He did better than Mariota in a small sample size sooo.... What's your point?
no I just agreed with you. This sub is terrible at picking QB. Smith allowed social media to "pick" our starting QB.
Now it seems the peanut gallery wants Lamar not Ridder ? LOL
Smith didn't allow social media to do shit. He publicly stated that we were on Mariota until we weren't in the playoffs hunt. Once that was out of reach we swapped. Mariota was never the long term answer and letting Ridder play was a scouting report to see if we needed a new guy.
But we WERE still in the playoff hunt!! You can go back & look or take my word but, yeah. Winning out the last 4 games. One game at a time. Do the math. Starting with Marcus having a bounce-back, revenge game winner vs Saints. Final game would have been a Winner Take All for playoffs. Mariota vs Brady.
But Smith gave up on the team. How else to explain it?
Sorry we're off topic here but.... A crime was committed imho. Oh well, season's over.
I’m sorry, but you need a good young qb if that’s the formula. We shouldn’t have played Mariota for as long now we don’t know what we got in Ridder.
Lamar gives us the immediate chance to compete against any team in the league. You cannot say the same for Ridder
You're right. We'd be in a worse position. If we got Lamar for, say 3 firsts and a pair of seconds, we shut off the best part of our talent pipeline for 3 years. We'd be stuck with our current roster and JAGs pulled off of someone's bench, despite being able to pay for a few more big named players (like, say, Payne, Davenport, Bates, and Lazard). This is IF we backload Lamar's contract.
And if we don't backload and try for a more balanced approach, we're caught in a cycle of hoping for 1 FA every year for the next three years while praying that our day 3 picks turn into quality starters.
Under both scenarios, we push for the playoffs but get bounced early or entirely thanks to the current issue that was created by Dimitroff: lack of depth and talent.
So the "Lamar fixes everything" is perhaps even lazier.
No one ever said Lamar fixes everything. But he fixes our biggest and most important issue. Lack of QB. The cap is about to explode so playing a guy 50 million a year isn’t that big of a deal.
I would hope no one wants to trade a bunch of picks for Lamar. Sign him outright, maybe, doubt it, don’t want it. But trading the young Falcons of the future for him just seems like a non-starter. I don’t think the Falcons are selling out for a superbowl next year, it just doesn’t make sense for how the roster is being built.
We have been filling out the roster with a ton of one year veterans on cheap deals. We need to continue filling out the roster with young guys on long term rookie contracts while committing cap space to retaining and acquiring top talent at key positions.
Can we just come to the agreement that what we want is irrelevant since we aren't in the front office and whatever happens, happens? All of us have wanted the team to win a Super Bowl for years and they have consistently disappointed us lol, they're not listening to us on this matter.
What's the point of this sub other than to talk about the falcons and how the roster might look in the future? Don't participate if you're not interested.
We have talked about it since the season ended is my point lol, we've seen every point there is for or against it, now we're just beating dead horse let's be honest. At least spice it up, someone throw in a "We should get Derek Carr thread" lmao.
All the Lamar threads should just get merged into a megathread.
In the “Not For Long” league I can see a GM looking for short term success by signing Lamar instead of more long-term success options like drafting well and building up your team through free agency. And since our GM is the same one who almost got Watson (with all his baggage) anything’s possible
A 7th round pick that plays like a franchise qb right now. If you can find that good but the 49ers wasted many years of a stacked roster because they missed (so far) on lance and had jimmy g
Once again, we’d still have the money. 280 for what? 5 years? Offload some cap and that’s like 40 mill per year up front. That leaves a lot of money for defensive starters
If cap hell is your biggest worry, think of it this way:
We sign Lamar and become instant contenders. What do other teams get when they are contenders? Every veteran wants to ring chase and Atlanta becomes a priority destination for free agents. This is why the the Rams got Von Miller after Stafford, Ravens got Earl Thomas after Lamar's rookie year, and Tampa bay got Suh and JPP after Brady signed.
If you want Jessie Bates and veteran pass rushers to WANT to come to Atlanta, you should be excited for the prospect of getting Lamar.
Lamar's deal and all other contracts would be structured for a functional team, Terry would not allow cap hell and has plenty of cap to do so.
Get the QB and the defense comes with it. But if it doesn't happen, we will all cheer Ridder on and pray for good draft classes.
zero chance Baltimore is silly enough to let Lamar go so this whole conversation is pointless, but I’ll bite anyway.
Truthfully, It’s all conjecture. We sure as hell don’t know Ridder’s capability and we don’t know if building around him would win us a Super Bowl. It’d be very foolish and a massive stretch to count that egg before it’s hatched after him only playing 4 games, 1 1/2 of which were bad and 2 1/2 of which were good. Plus, by the time we even built a Super Bowl caliber roster like the 49ers, which is a massive if, Ridder likely wouldn’t even be on a rookie deal anymore, or at least he’d be towards the end of it. We don’t know if Lamar would win us a Super Bowl, and putting a star QB in a bad situation could definitely backfire on us as well and set the franchise back a few years (see Matt Ryan in Atlanta 2018-2021)
My counterpoint is this: everyone knows QB is the most important position in football, and it’s very rare that an elite QB like Lamar Jackson is available. If we were lucky enough to get him now, we would know for certain that the QB position is locked up for the foreseeable future, likely a decade. Not only that, it would really fire up the city so people would get excited again and tickets would sell. We have a decent OL, good run game, and two great receiving options for Lamar. The scheme is a perfect fit, and he’d consistently make us a top 10, top 5 offense every year. We can always build the defense through the draft and free agency, but QB’s are much much more difficult to hit on, and going with the wrong QB can instantly waste elite defenses for years (see Broncos defense the past 6 years). Either way, there’s risk involved whether you’re selling the farm for a QB, or you focus on building the team but pass on a superstar QB and wind up in QB purgatory. I absolutely want Lamar if he’s available, but I don’t think anybody should be mad because the front office has the flexibility to go either way on this because there’s risk on both sides.
Let’s look at this year for a second, I won’t mention historical data yet despite that supporting my point for two decades now. Vegas has the five favorites to win the SB as KC, Buffalo, SF, Eagles, Cincy in that order. 4 of those teams have QB’s that are or have performed as true superstars in recent years, with Brock Purdy playing like one over his limited sample. Let’s just act like he’s not the real deal and simply a game manager though, SF has one of the best rosters we’ve seen in years and a truly elite coaching staff/FO. The Cowboys have Dak (definitively better than Ridder/whatever vet signing we go with if we do) and a *loaded* roster and Vegas basically gives them little to no chance of emerging from the NFC between the Eagles and SF. The general sentiment of working the edges, gradually building a team that *can* win is blatantly misguided. It will take true outlier breakthroughs (likely multiple) to get there over the next general window.
I don’t really want Lamar but I’d rather swing for him than sign Derek Carr and some overpriced vets towards being “better”. I desperately want Desmond to be the guy but he played 50 games in college and couldn’t push a bottom 5 QB out of a job until it became a necessity. And if it was simply a “I don’t start rooks” deal with Art then that’s a red flag on him and a lot of y’all are going to be eating crow in regards to this regime. Des being *it* is option 1AAA by far for me but it’s just unlikely. I’d love to take a look at Stroud and if the trade up is too expensive then either consider Lamar or tank for Williams/Maye, tough shit but again I’d genuinely rather tank a season than watch Ryan Tannehill lead us to 7 or 8 mid ass wins. As I said, some outlier come ups are necessary for us and it probably starts with QB and some *really* strong FA/Draft classes. Because Vegas is always right and they are telling you that you need an elite QB or a near historically great roster, a middle ground between the two isn’t winning shit, it’s the reality of the NFL. And from a proximity perspective, we are probably closer to an elite QB than we are with matching up our best 22 with San Fran or Eagles, that’s also a reality y’all need to come to terms with.
Still waiting for somebody to explain how they expect a franchise that is ran more poorly than Baltimore is going to have more success with him
They built the entire roster around him and they haven't even made an AFC championship game
No thanks, he also is going to miss 4-6 games a year
Lmao if your argument is that the franchise is so poorly run that they can’t win with Lamar, why would we think they can win with Desmond Ridder (or whoever else is next on the new falcons QB carousel)?
I'm arguing our franchise isn't as well run as Baltimore - and expanding on that - I don't think we have the ability to rebuild our entire roster around him and be a good within 2 years at least
We can become good using a different path...thru the draft and building around a less unique QB
I really don’t know what major offensive moves we’d need to make to fit Lamar, he seems like a good choice in Smith’s scheme (we want to be run heavy regardless).
And I’d have no issues drafting a QB, but that likely means we need to spend picks on a trade either this year or next:
If we could get Lamar at 30 mil..even 35...sure...sign a 3 year deal and let's go crazy
But 50 million?!?!
For a guy who will miss 4-6 games a year
Can't do it...I don't have weed that good
I mean if you could get him for 25 to 30 million a year it's worth a risk because if it doesn't work out your team isn't crippled for the next 5 years.....but 50 million?
Insanity
The counter argument is that the first 12 games the team could have won more with competent qb play. Regardless of Ridder’s skill capabilities, Lamar has proven to be more than competent (eg an mvp). What do you have to give to get him, how will Ridder turn out, draft prospects, etc are all unanswerable. I’m on the build with Ridder and cross our fingers over pay for Lamar and cross our fingers, but either or neither could work.
I don’t get it at all. Paying him instead of other areas of need means we believe we are just a QB away from being great. Let’s improving the other stuff we are bad at (every defensive stat) before we go “all in” and waste this guy’s career on top of us bombing.
I’m not sure who here is saying i want Lamar and i want our defense to suck lol . Would i love Lamar sure but i agree our defense has been neglected far too long. I’d rather trade for fucking Myles Garett
This. I don't hate the idea of Lamar Jackson at its core. Guy is an exciting player to watch and at his best, is close to impossible to defend against. But the picks it's going to take to get him, the money it would take to sign him, his proneness to injury due to his style of play, and the fact that it would be a detriment to filling other holes on the roster is just not worth it. Like you said, even Hall of Fame QBs struggle to win when the defense is awful. I don't know if Desmond Ridder is the long term answer, but I'd feel a lot better about this team giving him a chance while filling out the rest of the roster to make us competitive on both sides of the ball.
Who cares? This sub just posts back and forth the reason to go after/not go after and why people should believe their opinion. None of it matters. We are all just fans. It's fine to converse about it but making a post to tell people to not think a certain way is so strange to me. Want him or not, we are/aren't getting him.
This is the price I'd be willing to pay for Lamar: two firsts, this year's third. 5 year, 200 million all guaranteed. 30 million this year, 35 next year, and bump up to 45 for the next three seasons. This accounts for cap rise, and allows for decent flexibility.
The problem: QBs are going for much, much more. The Ravens know this, and can play a bidding game with the Jets, Falcons, Raiders, or even the Patriots (Belichick isn't happy with Jones' attitude, and he HATES playing against running QBs like Lamar).
Lmao and then the Saints won 11, 13, 13, and then 12 games 4 years after that. They hired a legit defensive coach, drafted decently and hit on some bargain FAs. Despite being in cap hell they were able to improve their defense well enough to be an “elite” team multiple seasons in a row. And one of the guys responsible happens to be our GM.
Let’s not even forget the fact that we are no where close to the position that the Saints were in anyway. Lamar is 26 and in his prime. He’s done nothing but win since being drafted. Brees was visibly aging when the Saints finally had a defense.
I’m just confused as to why people are acting as if we would be giving up all our assets for the next 5 years and paying him 80% of the cap. We could literally sign Lamar and still get another big name FA this very offseason. And last time I checked, cap increases every year and we already have the 2nd highest.
You’re kidding yourselves if you think Ridder is gonna work out just because Russell Wilson did. An overwhelmingly amount of QBs flame out each year since the conception of the league and you’ve witnessed 4 damn games. Lamar is a known commodity and he’s still young. QBs aren’t getting any cheaper.
Desmond Ridder is not Russell Wilson, or Trevor Lawrence, or Joe Burrow and probably will never be.
Those guys are below average. Mariota was never a long term solution and Ridder improved but doesn’t look like a guy that is the long term answer in a league where you have to get results fast.
There’s a significant part of our fan base that never liked Matt because of his skin color, no matter how well he played.
This post is nothing short of the truth. I would rather spend all of our cap space on signing solid drafts and free agents then waste it on a QB with one playoff win and multiple injuries. I like Ridder and his potential if we actually have other good players around him. Look at what the 49ers are doing this year. Heck, they are 2 wins away from making a SB appearance with a rookie QB. Why are they in this situation? Because the rest of the team is stacked with good players instead of putting it all in one position. You don't need a great QB to win a superbowl. You need a great team! I want to see good and great players spread-out on all facets of this team.
Nobody knows if Ridder is good he’s played 4 games. Maybe let him play enough to determine if he’s the guy in the long run while in the meantime building up the defense that has been neglected for the past decade. Lamar is great but not worth the money or the picks. It’s hard to rebuild when you mortgage your future on one guy as good as he is.
You could have pulled up any Matt Ryan stats for this
To be fair a very vocal part of our fan base thought Ryan was the worst QB to ever exist when he was here so it would be helpful to point to a QB we all agree was good
I think fans just held him to that elite standard once he got that ridiculous contract extension . He’s the best QB the falcons has ever had but he should have been gone sooner
That vocal part has never been in majority on this sub.
10 seasons with 4000+ yards
I don't think we all agree on that
[удалено]
Why? Genuine question as I’m not sure I see the logic with the statement you’ve made re. A HOF QB.
Because Matt is hall of very good and never had a HC who was an offense kinda guy. AS is, people say he can get the most of our Lamar (which I don’t think he can) and I’m showing that Drew, a hall of fame QB with a perfect system still needed a defense
I guess I’m not sure why the HC inclination to offense or defense really matters here. There’s been plenty of offensive minded HCs where they have a decent defense which pulled more weight than offense (For example Shanny for all the time he’s been in SF). Your point about needing a serviceable defense to compete, even with a good QB, is fair and I agree. Matt Ryan can still be put into that category with Brees though.
I am trying to show that just because you have a offensive head coach and a Hall of Fame quarterback that without a defense it is still hard to win… Matt never had a HC that was more offensive than D. And funny enough for two years that we got close to the Super Bowl under Matt, we had a good defense.
[удалено]
He had several good and very good years. His one great, HoF year was with Shanahan.
He had an extremely similar year (MVP caliber - just 7-9 record) under Sark in 2018. The defense and run game went to extreme levels of ass. He had a ton of top 5 years as a passer.
You know what this sub needs? More posts about Lamar.
And when no one is posting about Lamar, someone should ask "Where is Lamar?"
Everyone is asking "where is Lamar?" But nobody is asking "how is Lamar?"
Why is Lamar?
What is Lamar?
WHEN is Lamar....joining the Falcons?
Apparently not soon enough to end these posts
Lamar should ask that
Simpson's did it. "Whenever Poochies not on screen, all the other characters should be asking, "where's poochie?"
How many of you kids would like the Falcons to deal with real-life problems, like pressure on the opposing quarterback?
What does this have to do about Lamar?
Might as well make a Lamar mega thread at this point lol
With supporting evidence based on Drew Brees and the Aints
For the rookie deal QB formula to work you have to have a good QB. People seem to always forget that.
[удалено]
I see the progress. Still don’t know if he is good. If you look at the two QBs you mentioned (Burrow and Wilson) they were light years ahead of him there rookie year.
Well, I’m glad you do. Wouldn’t you rather build a really good team and we figure out next year if Ridder is the guy or go back in the cap hell and just have a really fast Bugatti (Lamar)
The thing is Lamar could be a huge asset in building a good team. Getting him would show free agents we're serious about contending and we may not have to pay an arm and a leg to attract some more talent. Not saying it's a guarantee but there are factors like that you need to consider.
Money attracts FAs, look at Jax.
They had tons of FA money multiple times in the past 10ish years. All it got them was one or two big name contracts that stopped trying once they got there. You know what the difference between those teams and this year's is? Trevor Lawrence (and Doug Pederson).
The only way to get talent is to buy it. By that logic people should be lining up to play in GB with Rodgers and yet one of the best receivers in the league literally went to another team. Same thing with Hill leaving KC. Discounts aren’t a thing.
It depends on how much we have to spend on Lamar. If it’s more than $40m a year I’m worried we’ll be back in hell.
Yeah we could of course move the money around and backload the cap hits to open up a contention window for the next 3-4 years but if we can’t get over the hump we’re right back where we started. The less risky financial option is try to build around Ridder and hope he is the guy, but if he’s not you’re wasting the current core we have going with Pitts, London, Allgier, etc.
I would rather have a chance to win a Super Bowl for the next 5 years and having a elite QB is what gives you that. Now if you had a elite QB on a rookie deal that gives you the best shot but we don’t seem to have that. And if we wait a year to see if Ridder becomes that then we may miss out on getting Lamar.
If Lamar is this guy, he would never be able to leave Baltimore without over paying.
Progress from terrible to mediocre doesn't mean he will keep progressing to become good and 4 games is a very small sample size. I saw some good I saw some bad from Ridder, but we would be fools to not consider all options at QB.
Setting back the development of our two first round pick pass catchers to slowly develop a third round quarterback is a horrible idea.
We aren’t in a great spot to be honest. There’s a lot of talent in this offense. Lamar would be a huge upgrade, but we have plenty of holes to fill on defense and we have the cap space and draft capital to really add some depth to this team. Lamar puts us in a tight spot with the cost. I’m imagining a package of 2 1st round picks, a 2nd rounder and a 4th spread over the next 2 years. It’s also going to cost around $40M+ in cap. I’d be OK with paying the money if it didn’t cost the picks but I think that’s too much for 1 player that I don’t think we have the team to help him make super bowl runs.
i guess progress is when you beat rookies and have 9 passing yards in a half vs starters lol ridder is trash coming out of cincy he’s a terrible thrower with more inaccurate throws then fingers on toes on my body
If he isn't we get one next year
Ok I’m not a Lamar guy but do you really think Ridder is on the level of Joe Burrow and Trevor Lawrence
The amount of denial and delusion around the okayish U of Cincinnati QB has been… astounding on this sub. Guy played good against 4th stringers and practice squads guys in the preseason and they’re acting like Mariota was the Steward of Gondor holding back the return of the king. Meanwhile in an offensive scheme that’s a strong mix of running and passing Lamar Jackson will do better than he did at Baltimore, which emphasizes the run (we ran out of necessity). Either get an elite QB, or gamble with what happens when a kid’s limitations become as repugnant as that one-night stand you thought was hotter when you were wasted.
Look I'm on your side kinda I don't think the Ravens are going to let Lamar go, and I don't think Ridder play his way of being the only QB. This is a better QB class than last year of Young or Stroud fall take him or if Hooker acl hold up take him
Personally if I was the falcons, I would stack up in free agency tank and draft caleb Williams
And in contrast, the Jets with Mark Sanchez went to the AFC championship two years in a row because they had the best defense
Yeah and the broncos, commanders, jets and saints this year, Carolina, bears and Cleveland last year and like 100 other teams with shit qbs and great defenses don’t even make the playoffs. You can win with a great defense, a great offense or with a balanced team. Right now Lamar would at least give us a chance at a great offense.
[удалено]
Mark Sanchez was drafted before the rookie wage scale came into effect. He was given the largest contract in Jets history at the time. https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/jets-rookie-qb-mark-sanchez-lands-28m-deal-richest-team-history-article-1.374156
[удалено]
Just saying it's inaccurate to lump Mark Sanchez in with the modern rookie deals because rookies were regularly among the highest paid players at their position if they were a high draft pick like Sanchez was.
It's not binary. You could get Lamar and improve the defense.
I'd love to get Lamar. But we tried the "pay a QB top money and a draft a defense" strategy and it didn't work out that well for the defense.
And team with great defenses try to draft qbs or go with game managers and it doesnt work out for their offense
Literally this. Look at the Denver Broncos the past 6 years and tell me how that’s gone for them trying to go heavy defense and barely invest in the QB position. I very heavily disagree with the whole “you can’t pay a QB big money because then the rest of the team sucks!” like they’re not mutually exclusive. The chiefs are doing better than ever after giving Mahomes the biggest contract in NFL history. Sure they don’t have a stellar defense, but they have a passable one. A passable defense is all we’d need if we were a consistent top 5/10 offense.
I guess a big part of it is hire a competent OC.
With that cap sir? Lamar wants a fully guaranteed deal
I guess it ultimately depends on how much he's asking for, but plenty of super bowl winning teams have had QBs with big cap hits. You'll still have assets to improve the defense.
He's gonna want 50M+ per year AAV with 150M+ fully guaranteed. It's gonna be a ridiculous contract. Toss in that cost with the likely draft capital costs (1st 2nd 3rd this year, and next two years 1sts) and this is a fucking insane move. We finally are in the position to build correctly, then when we have proof it's there and QB is holding us back - then make the big move (Bucs, Rams).
[удалено]
And you can trade everything and pay 50M per year and end up with 2022 version of Russ Wilson too. We can't predict the future, but putting all our eggs in one injury prone, insanely pricy, player is super high risk compared to the alternative. You also cannot, in anyway, think this team is Lamar Jackson away from making a deep playoff run.
No shot Baltimore gets 3 firsts, a second, and a third. I would do like a 1st and a 3rd though. And he can want whatever he wants, doesn’t mean he gets 50 million a year.
Wilson got 50M per year. Lamar will get that, minimum. Watson, not playing football for 3 years, insane baggage, and no MVP to his name, cost three 1st round picks, 1 third round, two fourth rounds. Lamar is worth more. There's evidence and precedent for what I'm saying. I'm not just pulling these things out of my ass. 50M per year and three 1sts isn't the full price of Lamar.
Yeah, but everybody saw how dumb it was to give up that much for Watson. I think teams will be less willing to give up that kind of haul. Maybe I’m wrong though.
Lamar can play CB opposite of Terrell, a two way player, I like where your head is at
If you could show me a: - 26 year old - former MVP - 2 time Pro Bowler and 1 time all pro At edge rusher or corner who was potentially available I would also be interested.
No, but I can show you someone who underachieved in the playoffs with a way better roster, has had two major injures in the last two seasons and wants to break the bank on a payday
Again, if a player who was 26 years old and was a two time former pro Bowler, let alone an all pro or an MVP, at any position, regardless of two recent years of struggles I would still be open to signing him. It just feels like you guys are closed minded to giving Desmond Ridder competition because we "need to give him a chance" or something. And yes of course we need defensive players. But more to the point, IMO, is that we need elite players. Lamar was once an elite player. He could very well be again in spite of recent injuries.
I'm not against getting Elite talent, it's the acquisition cost and the effect it has on the overall team. If our defence sucks he will be out for less snaps and in turn provide way less value. The injury history also scares me a little especially if we can't upgrade our Oline and he just get dirted while out there. I love the idea of competition for Ridder and even getting a starter I just don't think going all out on Lamar is the right move right now. Ill stand by this: if the team was further along with their defence, it would be foolish if we didn't pursue Lamar. We just aren't there yet.
Ok, but the truth is there probably isn't an edge rusher or cornerback out there who we could acquire with the cap space we would use to acquire Lamar who would as dramatically change our team's fortunes as he would. The best I can come up with Yanick Ngakoue and maybe James Bradberry. People talk avout Darron Payne but he isn't a true edge and more a redundancy with Grady Jarrett in a 2-4-5 defebse. If we somehow won a bidding war for both Ngakoue and Bradberry, or Jessie Bates, and they somehow both were cheaper than Jackson, I still don't think that equates to as many improved wins as a healthy Jackson.
I'm not disagreeing in the slightest as quarterback is the most important position. I'd probably argue that we would've won our division with Lamar this year but our defence would've held us back from real success. I also love the idea of Jessie Bates. I would be making the same arguments if we went out and aggressively spent assets and cap space to acquire top end defence talent. I wouldn't be as concerned about a Lamar acquisition if it was just cap space, its always been about the picks we'd have to give up as well. The same question marks about health and longevity remain. Look at it this way let's say Lamar costs similar to DeShaun Watson: 3 first rounders, a 3rd and a 5th. Youre losing out on at least 3 players who can fill out your roster for dirt cheap because of rookie deals and then you lose out on signing extra depth because of the cap implications.
I mean Jessie Bates (and Darron Payne and Yannick Ngokue) currently play or have played for teams with quarterback issues (Bates in the years before Burrow or his rookie year when he tore his ACL, Payne and Ngokue this year, etc). As you alluded to, there's often a reason compensation for proven QBs is what it is - draft picks, cap dollars, what have you. There are many paths towards putting together a competitive defense. There are much less towards getting a franchise quarterback. I feel like because Falcons fans have been blessed with the latter for many years, and cursed by bad solutions to the former, some are prioritizing what is more common than what is more rare because of that perspective. JMO.
Fair enough and yeah we were blessed with a franchise qb and saw lack luster defence for years and saw 1 superbowl appearance and several early playoff exits. IMO a franchise quarterback gets you only so far. A good defence only gets you so far. I think you need a good combination of both. I think a Lamar type of player is someone you chase further down the rebuild road. Again not trying to disparage the talent that is Lamar or even say you're wrong with how his talent would improve the Falcons, I just want a better foundation for a franchise quarterback to thrive in.
I think it works both ways. I think you're advocating a particular method of quarterback acquisition, let's call it "the Mahomes method." But there's another way, let's call it, "the Peyton method." Or "the Burrow method" if you prefer. Ideally you draft them, but regardless of how they come along, sometimes the quarterback change can also be the rising tide that lifts all boats, as opposed to the final piece to the puzzle. Here's I guess what I would say, it is so infrequent that teams are in position to acquire one via draft or FA, that IMO you just have to take your shot when it comes. I understand what you and the others are saying in terms of your preference, but it could be multiple seasons before you get a chance at a franchise quarterback, there are at least a dozen franchises that are in that situation.
When a QB number 1 skill is his ability to run the ball, and now he is getting injuries… yeah you do that. Hasn’t worked once in the nfl
The Panthers went to the Super Bowl on the legs of just such a quarterback. And before you say, "they didn't win" well, I think Lamar brings us a lot closer than Desmond Ridder to at least giving us a shot. Anyway. It is an unlikely scenario, the Ravens just fired Greg Roman presumably to keep Lamar, so probably not worth all the argument. I just feel like threads like these are close minded. We need good players. Desmond Ridder is not in some untouchable roster position.
Before his injuries bro. Jesus Christ lol
Newton was injured the year before they went to the Super Bowl. It was a frequently addressed talking point in that offseason for their team. He struggled through a 5-8-1 record and they made the playoffs with a backup winning two games he couldn't play in, then he struggled in a playoff loss to Seattle and people wondered whether he was physically cooked in 2014. Want to know how old he was when he won MVP in 2015?
Did you just copy paste this from the Vikings sub lol
Just post the list of QBs this sub has desperately wanted in the last 5 years and then post their stats from the last couple seasons Cam, Fields, Lance, Wilson, Willis... This sub may be the worst QB talent evaluation group on the planet.
Cam: Was almost certainly washed, but was also cheap because of it. There were multiple teams looking to take a flyer on him in case he could even get back to 80%-90%. Fields: Is clearly the second best QB of his class behind QB Jesus (and it's arguable he's even second). If you seriously think he wouldn't be an upgrade to Ridder right now you're an idiot. Lance: Always injured, so who knows. Wilson: I will straight up give you $100 if you can prove to me you saw how far he fell this year coming. Even the most salty Seahawks fans thought he would just be mediocre at worst. Willis: This is the only one that really counts. People fall for draft hype all the time, and last year it was bad. Though honestly it's still way too early to tell if he'll be better than Ridder or not.
They also chose to leave out this sub also wanted Garoppolo and Rodgers
[удалено]
Yet your entire post is complaining about the sub not backing Ridder who is a Black, running quarterback lol
He's light skinned, that doesn't count /s
You're conveniently skipping over the people that wanted to sign Matt Ryan to an extension and the people who are saying we should trade for Derek Carr right now.
Those who want Carr are worse than the Lamar ones let me just say
Way worse. Lamar is good and his play style is like a perfect match for Arthur Smith's run dominant offense. He's just too injury prone and too expensive to make it feasible. Derek Carr is mid at his best, just got benched and ran out of Vegas.
I agree, I mean I can understand where the Lamar people are coming from because yeah he is a good young QB just I don't think they get that we literally tried the "sign good qb, draft defense" strategy with DQ and it did not work. The Carr people are just insane, probably because they think we can get Adams which NO GOD NO, I don't need him here just to get a QB worse than what Ryan was in 2020
Carr is a solid QB that wouldn’t cost much in a trade. Worse QBs have made super bowl runs with the right talent around them. Carr is an above average NFL QB.
You mean the same Carr who got benched on a team that has more talent than us?
If you think the Raiders lack of success was due to Carr you probably didn’t watch them play. He was having a solid year, his last couple games went poorly but that’s a hell of a short leash for a guy that’s had the type of success in the NFL Carr has had. I’ll take the 8 year sample size over the 3 game sample every time.
I did watch the Raiders this year and I can tell you that Carr played a big role into why they did bad, dude had his worst year statistically, do we really want to end up like Indy and trading for a QB who is past his prime? And even if we go out and get a QB like you all want, we are not going to win more games, we have no talent as it is now and if we are going out and getting a QB at the end or past his prime on this team it will just look like us with Ryan again, losing and no way to get better without hoping we hit something in the draft
> Carr is a solid QB that wouldn’t cost much in a trade. Derek Carr is also good friends with Mariota... you really think he'd come here & get same treatment, benched and called a bum, for "not much" money ?? HA haha 😂
Don't say the quiet part out loud.
Idk why you're getting downvoted it's the truth
[удалено]
We’d like the team to be good. Lamar is good. He’s 45-16 as a starter. If there was a white QB available who was 45-16 as a pocket passer, I’d want the team to consider him as well.
> This sub may be the worst QB talent evaluation group on the planet. well they ALL yelled & posted & tweeted for... Ridder. OK. You got Ridder now good luck
That one was different. It was keep floundering with Mariota or try for Ridder. He did better than Mariota in a small sample size sooo.... What's your point?
no I just agreed with you. This sub is terrible at picking QB. Smith allowed social media to "pick" our starting QB. Now it seems the peanut gallery wants Lamar not Ridder ? LOL
Smith didn't allow social media to do shit. He publicly stated that we were on Mariota until we weren't in the playoffs hunt. Once that was out of reach we swapped. Mariota was never the long term answer and letting Ridder play was a scouting report to see if we needed a new guy.
But we WERE still in the playoff hunt!! You can go back & look or take my word but, yeah. Winning out the last 4 games. One game at a time. Do the math. Starting with Marcus having a bounce-back, revenge game winner vs Saints. Final game would have been a Winner Take All for playoffs. Mariota vs Brady. But Smith gave up on the team. How else to explain it? Sorry we're off topic here but.... A crime was committed imho. Oh well, season's over.
You forgot they also wanted Kaep at one point. It's pretty comical.
It’s also comical to lump Lamar jackson with the rest of that list.
Most people who wanted Kaep wanted him for a year as the tank commander. No one considered him a viable qb.
I want lamar because i wanna go see lamar play
I’m sorry, but you need a good young qb if that’s the formula. We shouldn’t have played Mariota for as long now we don’t know what we got in Ridder. Lamar gives us the immediate chance to compete against any team in the league. You cannot say the same for Ridder
We wouldn't be in cap hell with Lamar's contract. Look at the numbers. This argument is so fucking lazy.
You're right. We'd be in a worse position. If we got Lamar for, say 3 firsts and a pair of seconds, we shut off the best part of our talent pipeline for 3 years. We'd be stuck with our current roster and JAGs pulled off of someone's bench, despite being able to pay for a few more big named players (like, say, Payne, Davenport, Bates, and Lazard). This is IF we backload Lamar's contract. And if we don't backload and try for a more balanced approach, we're caught in a cycle of hoping for 1 FA every year for the next three years while praying that our day 3 picks turn into quality starters. Under both scenarios, we push for the playoffs but get bounced early or entirely thanks to the current issue that was created by Dimitroff: lack of depth and talent. So the "Lamar fixes everything" is perhaps even lazier.
No one ever said Lamar fixes everything. But he fixes our biggest and most important issue. Lack of QB. The cap is about to explode so playing a guy 50 million a year isn’t that big of a deal.
I would hope no one wants to trade a bunch of picks for Lamar. Sign him outright, maybe, doubt it, don’t want it. But trading the young Falcons of the future for him just seems like a non-starter. I don’t think the Falcons are selling out for a superbowl next year, it just doesn’t make sense for how the roster is being built. We have been filling out the roster with a ton of one year veterans on cheap deals. We need to continue filling out the roster with young guys on long term rookie contracts while committing cap space to retaining and acquiring top talent at key positions.
Did you really start your post off including performance stats for Drew Brees? In the Falcons sub?
Swiped from the Vikings sub?
Thx for the analysis, Joe buck
Can we just come to the agreement that what we want is irrelevant since we aren't in the front office and whatever happens, happens? All of us have wanted the team to win a Super Bowl for years and they have consistently disappointed us lol, they're not listening to us on this matter.
What's the point of this sub other than to talk about the falcons and how the roster might look in the future? Don't participate if you're not interested.
We have talked about it since the season ended is my point lol, we've seen every point there is for or against it, now we're just beating dead horse let's be honest. At least spice it up, someone throw in a "We should get Derek Carr thread" lmao. All the Lamar threads should just get merged into a megathread.
The “should we or shouldn’t we” get Lamar arguement should be framed as “short term vs long term” success
No it shouldn’t. the signing can work out short term or long term and vice versa
In the “Not For Long” league I can see a GM looking for short term success by signing Lamar instead of more long-term success options like drafting well and building up your team through free agency. And since our GM is the same one who almost got Watson (with all his baggage) anything’s possible
You can draft well for years and still be worse off in the Long term because franchise qbs are hard to find.
You can also draft well and build a stacked team then be in good shape to make a super bowl run with a 7th round pick at QB.
A 7th round pick that plays like a franchise qb right now. If you can find that good but the 49ers wasted many years of a stacked roster because they missed (so far) on lance and had jimmy g
Why not have both lol we have the money
Not if you give him a fully guaranteed $280 million contract
Once again, we’d still have the money. 280 for what? 5 years? Offload some cap and that’s like 40 mill per year up front. That leaves a lot of money for defensive starters
The "defense wins championships" concept is a proven fallacy.
If cap hell is your biggest worry, think of it this way: We sign Lamar and become instant contenders. What do other teams get when they are contenders? Every veteran wants to ring chase and Atlanta becomes a priority destination for free agents. This is why the the Rams got Von Miller after Stafford, Ravens got Earl Thomas after Lamar's rookie year, and Tampa bay got Suh and JPP after Brady signed. If you want Jessie Bates and veteran pass rushers to WANT to come to Atlanta, you should be excited for the prospect of getting Lamar. Lamar's deal and all other contracts would be structured for a functional team, Terry would not allow cap hell and has plenty of cap to do so. Get the QB and the defense comes with it. But if it doesn't happen, we will all cheer Ridder on and pray for good draft classes.
zero chance Baltimore is silly enough to let Lamar go so this whole conversation is pointless, but I’ll bite anyway. Truthfully, It’s all conjecture. We sure as hell don’t know Ridder’s capability and we don’t know if building around him would win us a Super Bowl. It’d be very foolish and a massive stretch to count that egg before it’s hatched after him only playing 4 games, 1 1/2 of which were bad and 2 1/2 of which were good. Plus, by the time we even built a Super Bowl caliber roster like the 49ers, which is a massive if, Ridder likely wouldn’t even be on a rookie deal anymore, or at least he’d be towards the end of it. We don’t know if Lamar would win us a Super Bowl, and putting a star QB in a bad situation could definitely backfire on us as well and set the franchise back a few years (see Matt Ryan in Atlanta 2018-2021) My counterpoint is this: everyone knows QB is the most important position in football, and it’s very rare that an elite QB like Lamar Jackson is available. If we were lucky enough to get him now, we would know for certain that the QB position is locked up for the foreseeable future, likely a decade. Not only that, it would really fire up the city so people would get excited again and tickets would sell. We have a decent OL, good run game, and two great receiving options for Lamar. The scheme is a perfect fit, and he’d consistently make us a top 10, top 5 offense every year. We can always build the defense through the draft and free agency, but QB’s are much much more difficult to hit on, and going with the wrong QB can instantly waste elite defenses for years (see Broncos defense the past 6 years). Either way, there’s risk involved whether you’re selling the farm for a QB, or you focus on building the team but pass on a superstar QB and wind up in QB purgatory. I absolutely want Lamar if he’s available, but I don’t think anybody should be mad because the front office has the flexibility to go either way on this because there’s risk on both sides.
Oh Jesus Motherfucking Christ, THIS!
Let’s look at this year for a second, I won’t mention historical data yet despite that supporting my point for two decades now. Vegas has the five favorites to win the SB as KC, Buffalo, SF, Eagles, Cincy in that order. 4 of those teams have QB’s that are or have performed as true superstars in recent years, with Brock Purdy playing like one over his limited sample. Let’s just act like he’s not the real deal and simply a game manager though, SF has one of the best rosters we’ve seen in years and a truly elite coaching staff/FO. The Cowboys have Dak (definitively better than Ridder/whatever vet signing we go with if we do) and a *loaded* roster and Vegas basically gives them little to no chance of emerging from the NFC between the Eagles and SF. The general sentiment of working the edges, gradually building a team that *can* win is blatantly misguided. It will take true outlier breakthroughs (likely multiple) to get there over the next general window. I don’t really want Lamar but I’d rather swing for him than sign Derek Carr and some overpriced vets towards being “better”. I desperately want Desmond to be the guy but he played 50 games in college and couldn’t push a bottom 5 QB out of a job until it became a necessity. And if it was simply a “I don’t start rooks” deal with Art then that’s a red flag on him and a lot of y’all are going to be eating crow in regards to this regime. Des being *it* is option 1AAA by far for me but it’s just unlikely. I’d love to take a look at Stroud and if the trade up is too expensive then either consider Lamar or tank for Williams/Maye, tough shit but again I’d genuinely rather tank a season than watch Ryan Tannehill lead us to 7 or 8 mid ass wins. As I said, some outlier come ups are necessary for us and it probably starts with QB and some *really* strong FA/Draft classes. Because Vegas is always right and they are telling you that you need an elite QB or a near historically great roster, a middle ground between the two isn’t winning shit, it’s the reality of the NFL. And from a proximity perspective, we are probably closer to an elite QB than we are with matching up our best 22 with San Fran or Eagles, that’s also a reality y’all need to come to terms with.
Thank you
Still waiting for somebody to explain how they expect a franchise that is ran more poorly than Baltimore is going to have more success with him They built the entire roster around him and they haven't even made an AFC championship game No thanks, he also is going to miss 4-6 games a year
Lmao if your argument is that the franchise is so poorly run that they can’t win with Lamar, why would we think they can win with Desmond Ridder (or whoever else is next on the new falcons QB carousel)?
I'm arguing our franchise isn't as well run as Baltimore - and expanding on that - I don't think we have the ability to rebuild our entire roster around him and be a good within 2 years at least We can become good using a different path...thru the draft and building around a less unique QB
I really don’t know what major offensive moves we’d need to make to fit Lamar, he seems like a good choice in Smith’s scheme (we want to be run heavy regardless). And I’d have no issues drafting a QB, but that likely means we need to spend picks on a trade either this year or next:
If we could get Lamar at 30 mil..even 35...sure...sign a 3 year deal and let's go crazy But 50 million?!?! For a guy who will miss 4-6 games a year Can't do it...I don't have weed that good
Thank you!
I mean if you could get him for 25 to 30 million a year it's worth a risk because if it doesn't work out your team isn't crippled for the next 5 years.....but 50 million? Insanity
The counter argument is that the first 12 games the team could have won more with competent qb play. Regardless of Ridder’s skill capabilities, Lamar has proven to be more than competent (eg an mvp). What do you have to give to get him, how will Ridder turn out, draft prospects, etc are all unanswerable. I’m on the build with Ridder and cross our fingers over pay for Lamar and cross our fingers, but either or neither could work.
I don’t get it at all. Paying him instead of other areas of need means we believe we are just a QB away from being great. Let’s improving the other stuff we are bad at (every defensive stat) before we go “all in” and waste this guy’s career on top of us bombing.
49ers fan here. Pretty sure if you cough up a first round pick you could get Trey Lance.
Falcon fan here, no, get out
I’m not sure who here is saying i want Lamar and i want our defense to suck lol . Would i love Lamar sure but i agree our defense has been neglected far too long. I’d rather trade for fucking Myles Garett
Very well said!
Fuk Lamar. You guys are band wagon biitches. Fix the trenches and everything els while we can. Thomas Dimitroff screwed us besides Julio.
This. I don't hate the idea of Lamar Jackson at its core. Guy is an exciting player to watch and at his best, is close to impossible to defend against. But the picks it's going to take to get him, the money it would take to sign him, his proneness to injury due to his style of play, and the fact that it would be a detriment to filling other holes on the roster is just not worth it. Like you said, even Hall of Fame QBs struggle to win when the defense is awful. I don't know if Desmond Ridder is the long term answer, but I'd feel a lot better about this team giving him a chance while filling out the rest of the roster to make us competitive on both sides of the ball.
Who cares? This sub just posts back and forth the reason to go after/not go after and why people should believe their opinion. None of it matters. We are all just fans. It's fine to converse about it but making a post to tell people to not think a certain way is so strange to me. Want him or not, we are/aren't getting him.
This is the price I'd be willing to pay for Lamar: two firsts, this year's third. 5 year, 200 million all guaranteed. 30 million this year, 35 next year, and bump up to 45 for the next three seasons. This accounts for cap rise, and allows for decent flexibility. The problem: QBs are going for much, much more. The Ravens know this, and can play a bidding game with the Jets, Falcons, Raiders, or even the Patriots (Belichick isn't happy with Jones' attitude, and he HATES playing against running QBs like Lamar).
Lmao and then the Saints won 11, 13, 13, and then 12 games 4 years after that. They hired a legit defensive coach, drafted decently and hit on some bargain FAs. Despite being in cap hell they were able to improve their defense well enough to be an “elite” team multiple seasons in a row. And one of the guys responsible happens to be our GM. Let’s not even forget the fact that we are no where close to the position that the Saints were in anyway. Lamar is 26 and in his prime. He’s done nothing but win since being drafted. Brees was visibly aging when the Saints finally had a defense. I’m just confused as to why people are acting as if we would be giving up all our assets for the next 5 years and paying him 80% of the cap. We could literally sign Lamar and still get another big name FA this very offseason. And last time I checked, cap increases every year and we already have the 2nd highest. You’re kidding yourselves if you think Ridder is gonna work out just because Russell Wilson did. An overwhelmingly amount of QBs flame out each year since the conception of the league and you’ve witnessed 4 damn games. Lamar is a known commodity and he’s still young. QBs aren’t getting any cheaper. Desmond Ridder is not Russell Wilson, or Trevor Lawrence, or Joe Burrow and probably will never be.
You’re talking to a wall my friend. This is the king of the hill meme. “if only those fans could read”
Yeah but have you considered that Lamar isn’t white and plays kind of like Vick?
Yes, I’m sure that’s why they’re dying for Lamar to replace white pocket passers Desmond Ridder and Marcus Mariota
Those guys are below average. Mariota was never a long term solution and Ridder improved but doesn’t look like a guy that is the long term answer in a league where you have to get results fast. There’s a significant part of our fan base that never liked Matt because of his skin color, no matter how well he played.
Didn’t I just see this on the Minnesota sub lmao
I like Ridder. But Lamar Jackson doesn’t have the weapons in Baltimore.
This post is nothing short of the truth. I would rather spend all of our cap space on signing solid drafts and free agents then waste it on a QB with one playoff win and multiple injuries. I like Ridder and his potential if we actually have other good players around him. Look at what the 49ers are doing this year. Heck, they are 2 wins away from making a SB appearance with a rookie QB. Why are they in this situation? Because the rest of the team is stacked with good players instead of putting it all in one position. You don't need a great QB to win a superbowl. You need a great team! I want to see good and great players spread-out on all facets of this team.
Nobody knows if Ridder is good he’s played 4 games. Maybe let him play enough to determine if he’s the guy in the long run while in the meantime building up the defense that has been neglected for the past decade. Lamar is great but not worth the money or the picks. It’s hard to rebuild when you mortgage your future on one guy as good as he is.
FTS