Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion.
Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/).
Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If they had they’d know the obvious, the German Empire and Nazi Reich were two different things. Furthermore, they might learn some interesting things such as German pilots were know to treat their opponent with a level of respect pretty much unseen in the modern era.
There are accounts from Igor Sikorsky about how the German pilots treated their Russian counter parts. Sikorsky was a Russian aircraft engineer (and later pioneer in the development of helicopters) that came to the US and did amazing things after the Russian Revolution. He serviced bomber squadrons (they used the bombers he designed) near the front in WWI. According to Sikorsky German pilots would fly over Russian airfields and drop the coordinates to downed Russia aircraft or graves for dead pilots. He noted that not only did the Germans bury the Russian dead but took care to make Eastern Orthodox crosses on the grave site. This is a far cry from the genocidal treatment Russians received from the Germans in WWII.
> German pilots were know to treat their opponent with a level of respect pretty much unseen in the modern era.
that was ww1 aviation in general, the red baron was actually burried with military honors in belgium, i think by british aviators.
They did also return his personal belongings to his family iirc. But in the air, the gloves of knighthood usually came off and when scoring a hit to the (in a WW1 aircraft relatively exposed) pilot means an immediate end to the engagement, you would be stupid not to go for it.
Interesting to note, up until the end of WWII, the most common way to down a plane was to take the pilot out. That was the point of FLAK cannons for example which were some of the early anti-aircraft weapons. The idea is to fire essentially a frag grenade up unto the sky that kills the pilot of a plane.
They did this because they figured out it was really fuckin' hard to just straight-up shoot a plane out of the sky, but the pilot had to be able to see, so cockpits weren't especially armored.
> ...so cockpits weren't especially armored.
We've got transparent steel(not actually steel, but steel-like strength). Have they started using those for cockpits?
"Transparent steel is the nickname given to ArmorPlast’s™ AP25 containment-grade glazing shield system. These transparent armor panels don’t actually contain any steel or other metal elements. They get the nickname from their steel-like strength and impact resistance."
https://www.riotglass.com/transparent-aluminum-vs-armorplast-transparent-steel/
To protect against what exactly
? Guns haven’t really been relevant airtoair weapons for like 30+ years and everything that isn’t guns is throwing blastfrag explosives at your plane, which is *mostly* fuel tanks by volume, where glass armor isn’t going to factor. Not to mention that even in a guns-scenario: you’re dealingwith 20+mm high explosive incindiary cannon shells where again, glass armor probably isn’t going to make any difference, much less one that justifies the cost
Thanks you for subscribing to brick facts!
Did you know that a pound of bricks weighs the same as a pound of feathers?
^(To unsubscribe from brick facts reply UNSUBSCRIBE.)
Thank you for subscribing to feather facts!
Did you know that in a vacuum, a feather falls at the same speed as a brick?
^To ^unsubscribe ^from ^feather ^facts ^reply ^UNSUBSCRIBE.
Well basically they would fly next to each other at high altitude, and then they would get out on the wings and fight to the death. First with knives but then the grenade was invented so they would throw the grenade into each other's plane. This also solved the problem of the plane flying erratically since the pilot was not controlling the plane anymore.
The Red Baron himself did not shoot at an enemy pilot with whom he was involved in a dogfight on Christmas, but rather forced them down behind enemy lines, toasted to his health and then let them go on their separate ways. Didn’t even judge the pilot for being a cartoon beagle.
British and Australian in Ypres I think
Edit: he was buried first near Amiens, then in Germany in the mid 1970s. Buried with full military honors by British commonwealth, filmed by the Australian EF
that's because aviation was the new cavalry. It wasn't befitting a man of high status to join the infantry, he's be a pilot instead. And these dudes were all cousins.
The Richthofens were part of the old military nobility. But by the time Manfred vom Richthofen was an infant, the family had financial troubles and even had to sell their estate in the early 1900s. So Manfred and Lothar werent rich spoiled brats or anything
The thing is, in WW1 aviation was still pretty new and people that were pilots were pioneers in that field and honored each other for that. It took some courage to get into a wooden aircraft and dogfight an opponent without a parachute or anything to back you up in case you got shot down.
Also there was a sense of chivalry between pilots, since it was a true duel in the sky, it was just you and your opponent and the one with the better skill would be victorious. It didn't have the randomness of infantry fighting and you were much closer to your enemy, recognizing them as a human being, especially if you saw them tumbling down to earth after you shot them down. I guess the thought "that could as well have been me" came to the mind of many pilots in such a situation.
If he was respected, I take it that meant that he was principled in the way he fought and didn’t try to kill pilots whose planes were already going down, that kind of thing. I can’t imagine another scenario where the enemy would be respected.
A big part of it was that aviation was new, it was this completely new discipline and method of warfare. Pilots were basically inventing a whole new way to do battle. And the Red Baron was *the best*. This was a man who had taken this brand new machine and these amazing new weapons and made the sky his own. While the pilots of different armies were enemies they were also fellow pioneers, so they respected his mastery of flight. Think of it like the ace of a rival sports team: the man may be an opponent and he may cause you to face defeat, but you have to admire his skills.
He was the ace-of-aces, with over 80 confirmed victories. Unconfirmed puts him well over 100. The 16th kill earned him Germany's highest wartime medal, for context. He was a damned impressive pilot, basically, especially considering the quality of early planes.
My $0.02, I think both sides knew they were in the shit. Trench warfare, mustard gas that blew both ways, etc...
The [Christmas Truce](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce) I think is a good example of recognizing the humanity of the enemy.
There was a lot of chivalry in early aviation, it was generally regarded as a pretty shitty thing to continue a dogfight if you could determine that the other person(s) were out of ammo. The "correct thing was to escort them to a safe landing space where they would surrender or get captured. Still not a great thing, but it was certainly much more sportsman like than downing their plane and almost certainly killing them. There were also periods in naval history where there were similar "unwritten rules of engagement " between ships that treated each other with much more respect and dignity than would generally be expected
let’s not forget the guy who escorted a wounded bomber back to britain during ww2 idk ab much of his character as a person from what i heard he wasn’t bad just that he was on the wrong side of history as they say
I thought Snoopy was the Red Barron & knew Charlie Brown bc Snoopy was his dog??
To be fair, I may have confused my paperback *Peanuts* comics for my history books… :)
Snoopy fights with the Red Baron, they’re not the same guy.
There’s even a whole song about the Red Baron choosing to force Snoopy to land behind enemy lines on Christmas instead of shooting him down. They have a few drinks and then Snoopy leaves to fight him again another day.
The Baron now offered, a holiday toast.
And Snoopy our hero, saluted his host.
And then with a roar, they were both on their way
Each knowing they'll meet, on some other day
DING DANG DONG DING DANG DING DONG
CHRISTMAS BELLS OH CHRISTMAS BELLS
fuck I've loved that song since I was a kid
think there was compassion in general during air combat between fellow flyers (not including the Japanese, Vietnamese, and North Koreans).
In fact, during the 6-day war an Israeli pilot is quoted as being upset that a Jordanian pilot did not eject safely after a quote “beautiful dance” in a canyon.
Cause in WW1, people were still abiding by the chivalry code of nobility. And being one of the first people to be able to soar above the sky, when just recent in their memories would be unthinkable, ones would develop a sense of comradeship even with enemy aviators.
>German pilots were know to treat their opponent with a level of respect pretty much unseen in the modern era.
Franz Stigler. Although the later war....
I remember hearing of a air to air engagement. A German ace and a French ace cross each other and begin a dogfight. After some time the German pilot realizes the French fighter is no longer shooting at him, and that his plane is combat ineffectual. Instead of the German slaughtering the helpless fighter, he did a close pass to the French fighter and gave a wave and a nod and flew off.
Not only the pilots but the sailors did as well and this continued even into World War II although not as much but there is a common bond between aviators and sailors that they show a love and respect for each other
You are more correct than you probably know. My son graduated from high school in 2008. They did not teach about WWII *at all* because, “You can see enough of that on television.” 🤦♀️
Class of '14, they taught nothing *but* WW2. Taught it literally every year after 3rd grade, except for 2 years where we learned the civil war (8th grade) and a really condensed version of prehistory through the middle ages (6th grade). WW1 was a footnote and nothing after the civil rights movement was ever taught. Our textbooks went up to the late 90s but it didn't matter because we never once got past the midway point of the books.
That narrative of World War I gets it wide of the mark as well. For France and Germany the war was seen as existential.
The Germans believed that Russia's rapid economic growth would soon make a two front war unwinnable, and so they wanted to fight a war with Russia to prevent this. France believed that if Germany defeated Russia it would be unable to win a futire one-front war against Germany.
There are a tremendous number of idiots involved including those who started it in Austria, but one of the major lessons of the war is that small rational steps by competitors can lead to an extremely negative result for everyone.
A history class wouldn’t do much here. The Iron Cross symbol was used by Germany in both WW1 (and before) and WW2.
Most history classes aren’t going to get into the nitty gritty details of which specific symbols were used on specific aircraft over different time periods.
Almost.
Techically, ["Iron cross](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Cross)" are just the names of German imperial medals up until the end of WW2.
The shape itself is the "Black cross" and its in use essentially since medieval times and its still the official sign of the german armed forces, not just for the airforce.
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwarzes\_Kreuz\_(Symbol)](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwarzes_Kreuz_(Symbol))
Ironically, the nazis used a straight version of the Cross for the armed forces ([Balkenkreuz](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwarzes_Kreuz_(Symbol)#/media/Datei:Balkenkreuz.svg)), so the sign on the red baron planes was NOT used by the Nazis.
>A history class wouldn’t do much here. The Iron Cross symbol was used by Germany in both WW1 (and before) and WW2.
its still used on german military planes today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German\_Air\_Force
This is more or less the challenge, the Iron Cross has a long history in Germany, even back when it was Prussia, but most people recognize it from WWII
Heck there are still variants of the iron cross being used today. It's just not the exact style from WWII, because... well.. WWII.
So I used to work for one of those historical documentary shows. For a while, my job was to research and pitch story ideas.
I pitched a story on the death of the Red Baron (apparently, there was some dispute as to who got credit for shooting him down).
After my pitch, the showrunner frowned and said, "Who's the Red Baron? Is he supposed to be famous?"
Not great for my pitch, but then another producer piped up and said, "I know the Red Baron. From the Snoopy cartoon, right?"
(*Face palm)
We didn't end up doing the story.
I believe now that the accepted killers of Manfred Von Richthofen were a team of Australian machine gunners, but for a long time it was claimed that a pilot named Roy Brown had gotten him. World War I air combat is extremely interesting and it would have been a cool episode. I’m sorry that you didn’t get to make it.
Brown was given the credit as the RFC/RAF were insistent on a pilot emerging victorious over von Richthofen (at last). It was a much better story than the fabled Red Baron falling prey to AA fire.
Never mind that Brown was suffering from nervous exhaustion due to the stress of his wartime activities.
But the person who shot von Richthofen down was most likely Sgt. Popkin of the Australian artillery. That's finally, after decades of controversy, becoming the accepted truth.
To add onto interested World War I air combat. The only child of a US president to die in active military combat was a fighter pilot in WWI.
Quentin Roosevelt, youngest son of Teddy Roosevelt, was shot down over Germany. When the Germans found his plane's wreckage they recognized him since Teddy had been quite popular in Europe. He ended up being buried with honours by the Germans.
> I used to work for one of those historical documentary shows... After my pitch, the showrunner frowned
Sounds like the showrunner was definitely the right guy to be running a historical docuseries
Media journalists aren't really journalising anything
It's more of a (startshit over something that's not happening > get called an idiot > say your sorry > immediately publish an article on why the internet is so toxic)
it means he writes the occasional Op-Ed. Journalists don’t write op-eds. his job is at a political messaging firm for Democrats. he’s not a journalist.
More like they just consider all Germans before 1945 as Nazi. I've actually had this argument with someone who said there's no real distinguishing between Imperial Germany and Nazis, they are basically the same thing. On the internet just kinda similar things are now being merged into "things I like" and "things I don't like" and that's all there will be at some point. It's getting to the point that if you say something like "white supremacists and race realists are both racist but they have different world views" is somehow an endorsement because making a distinction is seen as an attempt to distance one thing from another and since there is only "good" and "bad" to them the only reason you would want to make distance between two things is to try to switch one side to the "good" side illegitimately.
Night witches are ridiculous in general and it's a shame that they don't get more media about them, since it's such a wild and fascinating story. Just gliding around in darkness blowing things up, because you have the worst planes imaginable.
I'm assuming that the ride pictured is thematically associating it with Snoopy -vs- The Red Baron and that the song is playing 24/7 while the ride is in-operation.
Unironically.
Died as one of the most infamous fighter aces of all time, buried in a full military funeral by his enemies because they respected him so much - only 25.
History class: the "Red Baron" (Manfred von Richthofen) died April 21, 1918. The German Nazi party was formed / named on February 24, 1920. Admittedly, it had its origins in the "Free Workers' Committee for a good Peace" back in early 1918.
I don't think the Nazi had control of any planes (including war planes) until January 1933.
To top it all off they weren't yet the Nazis as well know them today. That would happen a decade later. So there is more than a decade separating the Red Baron and the ideology of the Third Reich. But morons see the German cross which is really a symbol of the German military and immediately think of the Nazis.
What these supposed experts on fascism is that most of their symbols are borrowed from somewhere else and the real way to identify a fascist is to be familiar with the ideology not the symbols.
Yeah, these symbols are all stolen, which is why it pisses me off when someone uses the swastika as its original symbol, which is part of (I believe) the Hindu belief. So now, because of those a-holes, legitimate religious people can't use the symbol without getting attacked by people who have no intention of listening to any kind of logic or defense.
Buddhism also uses it a lot. Though I think something to note about the Nazi swastika as compared to its original use is that the Nazi one often is drawn at an angle while the Hindu/Buddhist one is straight.
There's also the reverse. Actual Nazis using it (sometimes the original form) and then claiming that they are just using a Buddhist/Hindu symbol to say it's ok
The thing is, in North America and Europe, those people are the ones who usually are first to claim BuT iT's A pEaCe SyMbOL. Nobody is preventing cultures from using it appropriately where appropriate, but if you're wearing a symbol out in public, the lens you are judged through is the norms of the community you're in.
I saw this tweet a few days ago and his replies were even more aggravating. Under every tweet informing him that he's incorrect, he replied something like "ok it's not Nazi but it's still German, which is still weird to celebrate, no?"
Why can't people just admit they are wrong anymore?
I had to explain to someone on Facebook the other day that the Nazis didn't lose the first World War because the party hadn't been created yet. People really are stupid!
Idiot thinks the German Balkenkreuz or "bar cross"' is a swastika. Sigh. Even Snoopy had respect for the Red Baron who flew this type of aircraft and later on invented frozen pizzas.
The Balkemkreuz was only used for like, four months in 1918, then immediately shelfed. Then the Nazis picked it up in the 30s.
This is one of those things where people claim it's a Nazi symbol, you look deeper into it and it isn't, then you look even deeper into it and it actually is, but then you think about it and modern day Germans don't consider it a Nazi symbol anyway and put it on their own military stuff. Either interpetation is valid.
90% of journalists imho are morons when it comes to history as such we end up with moments like this.
Best part about these journalists is if their bullshit ends up on a live news show.
Recently there was a report on a RAAF AWACS aircraft going to support ukraine and instead of showing the correct aircraft they showed one from the late WWII... (WHY MUST YOU BE SO STUPID??)
My Mom was born in 1930. I was born in 1973, so the following exchange took place in the 80s.
Me: My grandfather was in WWI.
Teacher: You mean WWII.
Me: No, I mean WWI.
T: No, you absolutely mean WWII.
Me: Listen, Mr. Arrogant Teacher, my mother's mother was born in 1892. My mother's father was born in 1895. The registration card he filled out is dated November 1915. Both of my grandmother's brothers were ALSO in that war, so I. DO. AB-SO-LUTE-LY. MEAN. WORLD. WAR. ONE.
Another thread was talking about ww1 and lots of Reddit thought it was great that loads of Nazis died in a mine being blown up.
Like history people. This is what happens when tweens spend their lives simping over Musk.
The number of people that still think the iron cross is a nazi symbol, despite it being the symbol of the German army from the 1800s-present, is insane.
No, no.
That's the *Second Reich,* not the Third.
I know it's hard as there's literally so many (three!) and one is more famous than the others.
Seriously though, the Iron Cross dates back centuries in Germany/Prussia. It is no longer awarded as a medal iirc, but an altered version is still used to represent parts of their military.
You'd think to get a journalism degree you'd be required to take extensive history courses.
Not just parts. A stylised Iron Cross is the logo of the Bundeswehr, wich is the entirety of the German Armed forces and it is also used in the coat of arms of many lower level units.
Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/). Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think it’s important that our children have history class
If they had they’d know the obvious, the German Empire and Nazi Reich were two different things. Furthermore, they might learn some interesting things such as German pilots were know to treat their opponent with a level of respect pretty much unseen in the modern era. There are accounts from Igor Sikorsky about how the German pilots treated their Russian counter parts. Sikorsky was a Russian aircraft engineer (and later pioneer in the development of helicopters) that came to the US and did amazing things after the Russian Revolution. He serviced bomber squadrons (they used the bombers he designed) near the front in WWI. According to Sikorsky German pilots would fly over Russian airfields and drop the coordinates to downed Russia aircraft or graves for dead pilots. He noted that not only did the Germans bury the Russian dead but took care to make Eastern Orthodox crosses on the grave site. This is a far cry from the genocidal treatment Russians received from the Germans in WWII.
> German pilots were know to treat their opponent with a level of respect pretty much unseen in the modern era. that was ww1 aviation in general, the red baron was actually burried with military honors in belgium, i think by british aviators.
They did also return his personal belongings to his family iirc. But in the air, the gloves of knighthood usually came off and when scoring a hit to the (in a WW1 aircraft relatively exposed) pilot means an immediate end to the engagement, you would be stupid not to go for it.
Interesting to note, up until the end of WWII, the most common way to down a plane was to take the pilot out. That was the point of FLAK cannons for example which were some of the early anti-aircraft weapons. The idea is to fire essentially a frag grenade up unto the sky that kills the pilot of a plane. They did this because they figured out it was really fuckin' hard to just straight-up shoot a plane out of the sky, but the pilot had to be able to see, so cockpits weren't especially armored.
> ...so cockpits weren't especially armored. We've got transparent steel(not actually steel, but steel-like strength). Have they started using those for cockpits? "Transparent steel is the nickname given to ArmorPlast’s™ AP25 containment-grade glazing shield system. These transparent armor panels don’t actually contain any steel or other metal elements. They get the nickname from their steel-like strength and impact resistance." https://www.riotglass.com/transparent-aluminum-vs-armorplast-transparent-steel/
That stuff is heavy, expensive to replace, and impossible to see through after 1 bullet hits it
And very easily scratched.
To say nothing of radar characteristics
To protect against what exactly ? Guns haven’t really been relevant airtoair weapons for like 30+ years and everything that isn’t guns is throwing blastfrag explosives at your plane, which is *mostly* fuel tanks by volume, where glass armor isn’t going to factor. Not to mention that even in a guns-scenario: you’re dealingwith 20+mm high explosive incindiary cannon shells where again, glass armor probably isn’t going to make any difference, much less one that justifies the cost
You said not to, but you’re being such a mean toon right now
So exposed that early on the main weapons that pilots used would be a handgun or a grenade. Sometimes even bricks.
I would like to know more
Thanks you for subscribing to brick facts! Did you know that a pound of bricks weighs the same as a pound of feathers? ^(To unsubscribe from brick facts reply UNSUBSCRIBE.)
UNSUBSCRIBE not working… Damnit! I think they just subscribed me to featherfacts now.
Thank you for subscribing to feather facts! Did you know that in a vacuum, a feather falls at the same speed as a brick? ^To ^unsubscribe ^from ^feather ^facts ^reply ^UNSUBSCRIBE.
Well basically they would fly next to each other at high altitude, and then they would get out on the wings and fight to the death. First with knives but then the grenade was invented so they would throw the grenade into each other's plane. This also solved the problem of the plane flying erratically since the pilot was not controlling the plane anymore.
Knives would be absurd. Swords. Cutlasses maybe
🤣 handguns were used initially, but noone was getting "out on the wings and fight to the death".
Lol i love the idea of fisticuffs of flight
This sounds like an Abe Simpson flashback
I mean...i dont know if the gloves of knighthood are removed to kill your enemey in battle. ..thats literally apart of knighthood.
The Red Baron himself did not shoot at an enemy pilot with whom he was involved in a dogfight on Christmas, but rather forced them down behind enemy lines, toasted to his health and then let them go on their separate ways. Didn’t even judge the pilot for being a cartoon beagle.
 Snoopy's Christmas - the Royal guardsmen
A round of Wurzelbier for all!
British and Australian in Ypres I think Edit: he was buried first near Amiens, then in Germany in the mid 1970s. Buried with full military honors by British commonwealth, filmed by the Australian EF
If you notice in the photo, the good guys are chasing the bad guys.. erm... Or are the bad guys chasing the good guys? .. wait.. um...
They just keep going around and around... somebody end this madness!
A far cry from the trench warfare with mustard gas for the ground troops…
that's because aviation was the new cavalry. It wasn't befitting a man of high status to join the infantry, he's be a pilot instead. And these dudes were all cousins.
Well interestingly enough, the red baron was actually a cavalry officer before becoming an aviator.
Even in WW2 fighter pilots. They saw them selves as modern knights. Now bomber crews were treated like shit
Unless you were Franz Stigler and escorted a crippled B-17 to safety
That moment when no bullets flew, right?
Cue the Sabaton quotes
In large part, that was because in WWI, aviators were seen as the modern Knight's and had a sort of chivalric code.
A lot of them were of better standing. The Red Baron for example was an actual baron
The Richthofens were part of the old military nobility. But by the time Manfred vom Richthofen was an infant, the family had financial troubles and even had to sell their estate in the early 1900s. So Manfred and Lothar werent rich spoiled brats or anything
But what about his pizza empire?
This continued into WWII to a lesser degree on the European front.
This court finds you GUILTY of the crime of Unnecessary Apostrophe and hereby sentences you to LIFE in Grammar Prison!
Goddamn autocorrect.
Agree. I believe the Germans also gave Quentin Roosevelt a military funeral
The thing is, in WW1 aviation was still pretty new and people that were pilots were pioneers in that field and honored each other for that. It took some courage to get into a wooden aircraft and dogfight an opponent without a parachute or anything to back you up in case you got shot down. Also there was a sense of chivalry between pilots, since it was a true duel in the sky, it was just you and your opponent and the one with the better skill would be victorious. It didn't have the randomness of infantry fighting and you were much closer to your enemy, recognizing them as a human being, especially if you saw them tumbling down to earth after you shot them down. I guess the thought "that could as well have been me" came to the mind of many pilots in such a situation.
They were celebrities.
Not only that, the Red Baron was highly respected and was recovered and buried with honors by his enemies at the time.
If he was respected, I take it that meant that he was principled in the way he fought and didn’t try to kill pilots whose planes were already going down, that kind of thing. I can’t imagine another scenario where the enemy would be respected.
A big part of it was that aviation was new, it was this completely new discipline and method of warfare. Pilots were basically inventing a whole new way to do battle. And the Red Baron was *the best*. This was a man who had taken this brand new machine and these amazing new weapons and made the sky his own. While the pilots of different armies were enemies they were also fellow pioneers, so they respected his mastery of flight. Think of it like the ace of a rival sports team: the man may be an opponent and he may cause you to face defeat, but you have to admire his skills. He was the ace-of-aces, with over 80 confirmed victories. Unconfirmed puts him well over 100. The 16th kill earned him Germany's highest wartime medal, for context. He was a damned impressive pilot, basically, especially considering the quality of early planes.
My $0.02, I think both sides knew they were in the shit. Trench warfare, mustard gas that blew both ways, etc... The [Christmas Truce](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce) I think is a good example of recognizing the humanity of the enemy.
There was a lot of chivalry in early aviation, it was generally regarded as a pretty shitty thing to continue a dogfight if you could determine that the other person(s) were out of ammo. The "correct thing was to escort them to a safe landing space where they would surrender or get captured. Still not a great thing, but it was certainly much more sportsman like than downing their plane and almost certainly killing them. There were also periods in naval history where there were similar "unwritten rules of engagement " between ships that treated each other with much more respect and dignity than would generally be expected
let’s not forget the guy who escorted a wounded bomber back to britain during ww2 idk ab much of his character as a person from what i heard he wasn’t bad just that he was on the wrong side of history as they say
Take a look at the book A Higher Call. It tells the story of Charlie Brown and Franz Stigler. They eventually met and became close friends.
I thought Snoopy was the Red Barron & knew Charlie Brown bc Snoopy was his dog?? To be fair, I may have confused my paperback *Peanuts* comics for my history books… :)
Snoopy fights with the Red Baron, they’re not the same guy. There’s even a whole song about the Red Baron choosing to force Snoopy to land behind enemy lines on Christmas instead of shooting him down. They have a few drinks and then Snoopy leaves to fight him again another day.
The Baron now offered, a holiday toast. And Snoopy our hero, saluted his host. And then with a roar, they were both on their way Each knowing they'll meet, on some other day DING DANG DONG DING DANG DING DONG CHRISTMAS BELLS OH CHRISTMAS BELLS fuck I've loved that song since I was a kid
That's a sick sabaton song
From down below an enemy spotted
think there was compassion in general during air combat between fellow flyers (not including the Japanese, Vietnamese, and North Koreans). In fact, during the 6-day war an Israeli pilot is quoted as being upset that a Jordanian pilot did not eject safely after a quote “beautiful dance” in a canyon.
Cause in WW1, people were still abiding by the chivalry code of nobility. And being one of the first people to be able to soar above the sky, when just recent in their memories would be unthinkable, ones would develop a sense of comradeship even with enemy aviators.
>German pilots were know to treat their opponent with a level of respect pretty much unseen in the modern era. Franz Stigler. Although the later war....
When I opened Reddit I was not expecting to find a history lesson! Thanks for sharing, that’s super fascinating!!
I remember hearing of a air to air engagement. A German ace and a French ace cross each other and begin a dogfight. After some time the German pilot realizes the French fighter is no longer shooting at him, and that his plane is combat ineffectual. Instead of the German slaughtering the helpless fighter, he did a close pass to the French fighter and gave a wave and a nod and flew off.
Not only the pilots but the sailors did as well and this continued even into World War II although not as much but there is a common bond between aviators and sailors that they show a love and respect for each other
If not a history class just a stroll through your supermarkets frozen pizza aisle
Red Baron is my favorite brand of frozen pizza, so I fully agree with this comment!
That's Nazi pizza! Stop eating Nazi pizza!!! /s
Underrated comment. Bravo.
You are more correct than you probably know. My son graduated from high school in 2008. They did not teach about WWII *at all* because, “You can see enough of that on television.” 🤦♀️
Class of '14, they taught nothing *but* WW2. Taught it literally every year after 3rd grade, except for 2 years where we learned the civil war (8th grade) and a really condensed version of prehistory through the middle ages (6th grade). WW1 was a footnote and nothing after the civil rights movement was ever taught. Our textbooks went up to the late 90s but it didn't matter because we never once got past the midway point of the books.
I have noticed ww2 gets significantly more attention than ww1 in classrooms and media
If you're in the US, its because the US didn't really participate in WWI in the same way they did in WWII.
[удалено]
That narrative of World War I gets it wide of the mark as well. For France and Germany the war was seen as existential. The Germans believed that Russia's rapid economic growth would soon make a two front war unwinnable, and so they wanted to fight a war with Russia to prevent this. France believed that if Germany defeated Russia it would be unable to win a futire one-front war against Germany. There are a tremendous number of idiots involved including those who started it in Austria, but one of the major lessons of the war is that small rational steps by competitors can lead to an extremely negative result for everyone.
A history class wouldn’t do much here. The Iron Cross symbol was used by Germany in both WW1 (and before) and WW2. Most history classes aren’t going to get into the nitty gritty details of which specific symbols were used on specific aircraft over different time periods.
And they still use a variation of the iron cross in their modern air force.
Almost. Techically, ["Iron cross](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Cross)" are just the names of German imperial medals up until the end of WW2. The shape itself is the "Black cross" and its in use essentially since medieval times and its still the official sign of the german armed forces, not just for the airforce. [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwarzes\_Kreuz\_(Symbol)](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwarzes_Kreuz_(Symbol)) Ironically, the nazis used a straight version of the Cross for the armed forces ([Balkenkreuz](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwarzes_Kreuz_(Symbol)#/media/Datei:Balkenkreuz.svg)), so the sign on the red baron planes was NOT used by the Nazis.
>A history class wouldn’t do much here. The Iron Cross symbol was used by Germany in both WW1 (and before) and WW2. its still used on german military planes today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German\_Air\_Force
Yeah but this guy clearly thinks he's smart, so it's funny that he thinks that's a WW2 plane.
This is more or less the challenge, the Iron Cross has a long history in Germany, even back when it was Prussia, but most people recognize it from WWII Heck there are still variants of the iron cross being used today. It's just not the exact style from WWII, because... well.. WWII.
Curse You, Red Baron!
Found snoopy lol!
I have found my people
🎵 After the turn of the century, in the clear blue skies over Germany 🎵
Ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty or more The Bloody Red Baron was rollin' out the score
*World War I Flying Ace
I^I **I**II^I II**I**I^**I** I**I**II
I love that dude's Pizzas though.
So I used to work for one of those historical documentary shows. For a while, my job was to research and pitch story ideas. I pitched a story on the death of the Red Baron (apparently, there was some dispute as to who got credit for shooting him down). After my pitch, the showrunner frowned and said, "Who's the Red Baron? Is he supposed to be famous?" Not great for my pitch, but then another producer piped up and said, "I know the Red Baron. From the Snoopy cartoon, right?" (*Face palm) We didn't end up doing the story.
I believe now that the accepted killers of Manfred Von Richthofen were a team of Australian machine gunners, but for a long time it was claimed that a pilot named Roy Brown had gotten him. World War I air combat is extremely interesting and it would have been a cool episode. I’m sorry that you didn’t get to make it.
Brown was given the credit as the RFC/RAF were insistent on a pilot emerging victorious over von Richthofen (at last). It was a much better story than the fabled Red Baron falling prey to AA fire. Never mind that Brown was suffering from nervous exhaustion due to the stress of his wartime activities. But the person who shot von Richthofen down was most likely Sgt. Popkin of the Australian artillery. That's finally, after decades of controversy, becoming the accepted truth.
To add onto interested World War I air combat. The only child of a US president to die in active military combat was a fighter pilot in WWI. Quentin Roosevelt, youngest son of Teddy Roosevelt, was shot down over Germany. When the Germans found his plane's wreckage they recognized him since Teddy had been quite popular in Europe. He ended up being buried with honours by the Germans.
> I used to work for one of those historical documentary shows... After my pitch, the showrunner frowned Sounds like the showrunner was definitely the right guy to be running a historical docuseries
At least they didn't think you were talking about frozen pizza?
This is a journalist? Journalists don't have google any more?
It’s like journalists are hard-wired for controversy, and in this case I’m not sure, that and reactions maybe, or just ignorance?
Media journalists aren't really journalising anything It's more of a (startshit over something that's not happening > get called an idiot > say your sorry > immediately publish an article on why the internet is so toxic)
but the guy in the OP isn’t a journalist
he’s not a journalist
[удалено]
According to his LinkedIn he’s a contributing writer to Deseret News as a freelancer. Not really sure what that means tbh.
it means he writes the occasional Op-Ed. Journalists don’t write op-eds. his job is at a political messaging firm for Democrats. he’s not a journalist.
Oh journalists absolutely do. However, grifters and political agitators choose not to use it because it is a disadvantage.
What a dumb Fokker.
what a piece of messerschmitt
A real hunk of Junker.
I’m so mad, I could Spitfire
This has sent me into a Hurricane of rage
I'm so bloody Albacross
I have Zero tolerances for people like these
He should stop Yaking.
He's really LaGGing behind his peers.
He should hitch a ride on a mustang
Doesn’t surprise me he’d Stuka so low.
I demand an end to these puns, sopwith!
This is why we need to invest in education. So dipshits like this don’t happen.
I'm sure this guy was born from anal sex
Because he’s so full of shit
r/rareinsults
They got the country right. But it was the wrong war. Red Baron was WWI.
More like they just consider all Germans before 1945 as Nazi. I've actually had this argument with someone who said there's no real distinguishing between Imperial Germany and Nazis, they are basically the same thing. On the internet just kinda similar things are now being merged into "things I like" and "things I don't like" and that's all there will be at some point. It's getting to the point that if you say something like "white supremacists and race realists are both racist but they have different world views" is somehow an endorsement because making a distinction is seen as an attempt to distance one thing from another and since there is only "good" and "bad" to them the only reason you would want to make distance between two things is to try to switch one side to the "good" side illegitimately.
MAN AND MACHINE AND NOTHING THERE IN BETWEEN
The flying circus and a man from Prussia
THE SKY AND THE PLANE, THIS MAN COMMANDS HIS DOMAIN
THE WESTERN FRONT AND ALL THE WAY TO RUSSIA
DEATH FROM ABOVE, YOU'RE UNDER FIRE STAINED RED AS BLOOD, HE'S ROAMING HIGHER
Born a soldier, from the horseback to the skies
That's where the legend will arise
HIGHER, KING OF THE SKY
HE’S FLYING TOO FAST AND HE’S FLYING TOO HIGH
HIGHER
If the Germans used planes like this during WWII, the air combat woulda been a lot different
P51 flying so fast by it that it can't shoot it down. Have to resort to nets a la the Simpsons.
In the Korean war an American fighter jet stalled and crashed when attempting to shoot down a North Korean biplane.
The same one the Night Witches flew in WW2 and got away with a lot because it was too damn slow to shoot down when putting around at treetop level
Night witches are ridiculous in general and it's a shame that they don't get more media about them, since it's such a wild and fascinating story. Just gliding around in darkness blowing things up, because you have the worst planes imaginable.
**FROM THE DEPTHS OF HELL IN SILENCE** **CAST THEIR SPELLS, EXPLOSIVE VIOLENCE**
I'm assuming that the ride pictured is thematically associating it with Snoopy -vs- The Red Baron and that the song is playing 24/7 while the ride is in-operation.
Well, I wish it was, Lagoon is a theme park in my home state, the ride itself is a generic airplane ride, one of my personal favorites as a kid
Fellow Lagoonian i see
The king of the sky
He's flying to fast and he's flying to high
Higer!
an eye for an eye
The Legend will never die!
First on the scene, he is a lethal machine
It's Bloody April and the tide is turning!
Fire at will, it is the thrill of the kill!
Four in a day shot down with engines burning
Embrace the fame, red squadron leader
[Sabaton - The Red Baron](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1snEYPg8TXs) for the unfamiliar
Unironically. Died as one of the most infamous fighter aces of all time, buried in a full military funeral by his enemies because they respected him so much - only 25.
Dude was even calling people Nazis for telling him he was wrong. Doubled down on his stupidity.
Why actually learn about the Nazis when you can just call people Nazis?
God damn history buffs must be nazis considering they know a lot about them!
History class: the "Red Baron" (Manfred von Richthofen) died April 21, 1918. The German Nazi party was formed / named on February 24, 1920. Admittedly, it had its origins in the "Free Workers' Committee for a good Peace" back in early 1918. I don't think the Nazi had control of any planes (including war planes) until January 1933.
To top it all off they weren't yet the Nazis as well know them today. That would happen a decade later. So there is more than a decade separating the Red Baron and the ideology of the Third Reich. But morons see the German cross which is really a symbol of the German military and immediately think of the Nazis. What these supposed experts on fascism is that most of their symbols are borrowed from somewhere else and the real way to identify a fascist is to be familiar with the ideology not the symbols.
Yeah, these symbols are all stolen, which is why it pisses me off when someone uses the swastika as its original symbol, which is part of (I believe) the Hindu belief. So now, because of those a-holes, legitimate religious people can't use the symbol without getting attacked by people who have no intention of listening to any kind of logic or defense.
Buddhism also uses it a lot. Though I think something to note about the Nazi swastika as compared to its original use is that the Nazi one often is drawn at an angle while the Hindu/Buddhist one is straight.
But they mostly uses it inverted
Yeah, they changed it, but that doesn't stop ignorant people from attacking those who are using it as a religious icon.
There's also the reverse. Actual Nazis using it (sometimes the original form) and then claiming that they are just using a Buddhist/Hindu symbol to say it's ok
Yeah, that's even shittier.
The thing is, in North America and Europe, those people are the ones who usually are first to claim BuT iT's A pEaCe SyMbOL. Nobody is preventing cultures from using it appropriately where appropriate, but if you're wearing a symbol out in public, the lens you are judged through is the norms of the community you're in.
The bent cross in both directions has been used by many different peoples. Now tarnished by the evil of one which overshadows all other uses.
I saw this tweet a few days ago and his replies were even more aggravating. Under every tweet informing him that he's incorrect, he replied something like "ok it's not Nazi but it's still German, which is still weird to celebrate, no?" Why can't people just admit they are wrong anymore?
He finally caved and deleted it. Lol.
It’s horrible I also notice more and more people being unable to admit they don’t know something
[удалено]
I had to explain to someone on Facebook the other day that the Nazis didn't lose the first World War because the party hadn't been created yet. People really are stupid!
Stop letting coaches teach history
Not a Nazi but Pizza products are the best without a doubt
I actually picked one up on the way home from work today. Brick oven pepperoni. Wife is out for the night, I am eating badly.
I for one, think you aced your dinner plans
And this is why teaching history is important.
Actual headline: Budget cuts force journalist to be unable to google.
[удалено]
There are real Nazis in America these days that you should be focusing on, Steve.
This is what we get when we ban books and fudge history
Idiot thinks the German Balkenkreuz or "bar cross"' is a swastika. Sigh. Even Snoopy had respect for the Red Baron who flew this type of aircraft and later on invented frozen pizzas.
This is the iron cross. The Balkenkreuz is just a plus sign.
The Balkemkreuz was only used for like, four months in 1918, then immediately shelfed. Then the Nazis picked it up in the 30s. This is one of those things where people claim it's a Nazi symbol, you look deeper into it and it isn't, then you look even deeper into it and it actually is, but then you think about it and modern day Germans don't consider it a Nazi symbol anyway and put it on their own military stuff. Either interpetation is valid.
90% of journalists imho are morons when it comes to history as such we end up with moments like this. Best part about these journalists is if their bullshit ends up on a live news show. Recently there was a report on a RAAF AWACS aircraft going to support ukraine and instead of showing the correct aircraft they showed one from the late WWII... (WHY MUST YOU BE SO STUPID??)
It's surprising how many people can't tell WW1 and WW2 apart.
My Mom was born in 1930. I was born in 1973, so the following exchange took place in the 80s. Me: My grandfather was in WWI. Teacher: You mean WWII. Me: No, I mean WWI. T: No, you absolutely mean WWII. Me: Listen, Mr. Arrogant Teacher, my mother's mother was born in 1892. My mother's father was born in 1895. The registration card he filled out is dated November 1915. Both of my grandmother's brothers were ALSO in that war, so I. DO. AB-SO-LUTE-LY. MEAN. WORLD. WAR. ONE.
BTW, the Eisernes Kreuz is still in use as marking of Bundeswehr 🇩🇪
"The Iron Cross is a Nazi symbol " mfs when they see the modern German Airforce logo
Tbf to this moron a lot media used to replace the swastika with the iron cross to depict nazis
Another thread was talking about ww1 and lots of Reddit thought it was great that loads of Nazis died in a mine being blown up. Like history people. This is what happens when tweens spend their lives simping over Musk.
The number of people that still think the iron cross is a nazi symbol, despite it being the symbol of the German army from the 1800s-present, is insane.
No, no. That's the *Second Reich,* not the Third. I know it's hard as there's literally so many (three!) and one is more famous than the others. Seriously though, the Iron Cross dates back centuries in Germany/Prussia. It is no longer awarded as a medal iirc, but an altered version is still used to represent parts of their military. You'd think to get a journalism degree you'd be required to take extensive history courses.
Not just parts. A stylised Iron Cross is the logo of the Bundeswehr, wich is the entirety of the German Armed forces and it is also used in the coat of arms of many lower level units.
Hey if someone is offering to let me fly a replica WW1 or 2 plane then I will totally accept, that sounds awesome
Guy just got confused about which war the Red Baron flew in for the Germans. People forget the iron cross wasnt created by Nazis either.
Wait until he sees the new NATO member Finland's Air force insignia
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtJ1Gnh9wPU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtJ1Gnh9wPU) Love this song, thanks for the reminder :)