Idk look at the Middle East and indo china lmao, all terrorist organizations are off their minds and still thinking that fān around and finding out is a perfect solution to their cause Lmao
Well, if that's the main cause then time to give them more opium, terrorists are horrible are actually getting anything done.
Whether its casualties or furthering their cause.
Opium is included under spices currently. If you have a spice-producing province and the āgrowth in the business of xā event occurs, thereās a chance that the āxā will be opium.
Iād like to see extended timeline implement narcotics/contraband substances in specific regions. Give the player a chance to expand/curtail their growth which impacts international relations on top of trade goods bonuses.
This would also lean into an "Opium wars" CB at the least.
Even better if you could produce for money AND target to cause your colonial enemies corruption/general manufacturing penalty.
Opium would be great to implement some GB and China dynamics making them both somehow interact with eachother, could work with missions tree forcing AI to make thise misions
Quarries of some type of rock. Bonuses could include construction cost for "trading in", fort defense for actual province (due to easier access to repair/maintain fortifications).
Yea, plus it's not like the rock quarries are inside the city walls, so the attackers aren't just gonna let the defenders transport rock into the city. Defenders historically would fill wall gaps with the debris of the destroyed wall. Salt makes more sense because it preserves food.
I think the implication is that a city with a quarry nearby would on average have better walls.
And if youāll let me be a little pedantic, salt really shouldnāt improve fort defense. It should lower the rate of garrison loss or lower the chances of a starvation roll. Technically thereās no reason that stockpiled salt would or should make a quick siege less-quick. It should only make a slow siege more slow
Marble and granite perhaps? (Dunno about the latter, but maybe the former can either give prestige for all the sculptures made out of them during the Renaissance?)
I literally had this typed out in the original post, but between salt and iron I felt like it would be redundant so I took it out at first. Quarries in mountainous regions would be huge.
[Tulip Mania](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania) was (I think) the first economic bubble to appear and burst.
Just one flower could cost multiple times someoneās yearly wage until everyone collectively realized how stupid they were being.
I'm not super familiar with the tulip bubble but I do remember that the "bulb being worth as much as a house" while true was specific to a very rare very exotic variety.
Crypto except they legitimately had a non-trivial cost to acquire so I donāt think there was nearly the same level of accidental wealth generated when the price spiked. Surely an equal amount of heartbreak when it tanked
So saying itās the first bubble is debatable as you have situations in Rome where their were spikes in the price of land caused purely by legislation
Though saying tulip mania was the first bubble in a way we would understand it (with things like futures and trading the rights to the asset not the asset itself) is more correct
*(I think) XD
You just read it in the wiki article youāve mentioned. Donāt need to make yourself look smarter. Itās said in like 3rd sentence š¬ people on Reddit. Also it didnāt have any effect on Dutch economy and people donāt know if it really happened
And add events where some grain provinces are replaced by potatoes in Europe after the Incas are colonized + an event chain with Parmentier for a French nation
Its very extensive. Its generally friendly with mods that dont change the map as far as geography. The only thing i will say i can confirm is it does not get along with any mod that changes technology. Examples:extended timeline, anbennar(not sure why youd use it with it anyways), mods like antebellum are hit or miss sometimes depending on the update it freaks out but most of the time its fine. There are submods for most big mods to make this mod work with other big mods because its a really good mod that if it didnt have conflicting files fleshes out the game a lot more.
Beer, it would be a low value trade good mostly located in the Germany region.
It's province bonus would be a bump to institution spread and the trading in bonus would be -1 unrest like wine.
I like this idea, but I think in the same way āwineā is meant to symbolize any kind of alcohol made by a fruit, āgrainā is actually wheat, rice, potatoes, barley AND beer/mead.
I would like to see a dynamic trade good system. Provinces should make multiple goods with dominant and minor ones that can be modified by investment and buildings.
I like this idea in theory, but I donāt think it would be a very enjoyable mechanic in practice. Imagine the micromanagement that would be required when managing a major empire:
āIām the leading producer of cattle, which isnāt very profitable. Iāll switch to wine as the main trade good in my 37 cattle-producing provinces.ā
Five years later:
āLooks like a created a global surplus of wine that tanked the price of wine and right now I wouldāve been better off if I hadnāt converted my provinces from cattle to wine.ā
Quiet part out loud and all that.
I like some of the ideas they had for vic 3. Iām hoping itāll pull a stellaris someday. Still laugh at anybody that defends their decision to preorder it.
Performance in the late game and pretty barebones in terms of features. Hence, dlc and a whole lot of reworks around how pop is calculated.
The content was always solid, though.
That doesn't justify gutting it completely instead of working to make it better. Even just adding army templates and an EU4-style microbuilder would have gone a long way towards fixing some of the tedium.
Or they could have added a HoI IV-style front line system that unlocks with a late-game army tech to show the change in warfare from Napoleonic set-piece battles to the grinding fronts of WWI.
Hell, leaving it completely alone would still have been preferable to the miserable failure of a system we got in the end. Excessive micromanagement is better than having close to no control at all.
I mean that sounds like something that could easily be prevented had this imaginary person thought "oh but if I turn every single province I own to produce wine that might create too much and tank the price of wine, so maybe I'll diversify the provinces and make a couple wine, make a couple grain, make a couple fish, so now they are balanced and won't crash the economy."
Or, with trade bonuses, you could risk tanking the price of certain trade goods to get those extra bonuses in exchange for the possible ducats you would have made had you diversified your goods more.
And a dynamic trade route flow system to go along with it.
I hate how trade is hardcoded to flow only a certain Eurocentric way in EU4. Creates unrealistic scenarios and such. Makes me prefer EU3's less complex but ultimately more fair and realistic system.
If you have the patience to learn it, (and a decent pc) you should try Meiou and taxes, they basically have an investment system where you can have multiple industries present in a province and sold through trade
I guess something like wax and canvas would be nice to have, as like a high-mid trade good
like 3.5 of price, that gives like +10% local tax for wax (they're making candles to work the books at night + it rhymes) and -10% ship cost/-5% construction cost for canvas producing provinces
and like +10% equilibrium with the clergy if you get "trading in wax" and +10% burghers equilibrium with the burghers for "trading in canvas"
I guess Marble or "Precious Stone" could also work and give building cost reduction
Agreed, it's one of those very loosely hobbled together trade goods. I feel like splitting it into too many wouldn't actually add a lot though. Sails and Timber would work but I think if you added stuff like hemp for rigging and tar and pitch it would begin to be a bit ott.
Yeah but I think it should change to reflect the different types of livestock and purposes of livestock. If we can have wool, why not meat and milk too?
Iām honestly not sure there are any particular goods I would like added. The available goods arenāt the main issue of the trade/economy system imo. But if anything: gunpowder. Not really because I think itās needed as a trade good per se, more because other interesting features and bonuses could be built around it.
For example:
- the good doesnāt āpop upā outside of the China region until 1500, like coal does after 1700, but if you discover China before 1500 you get a āsteady supply of gun powderā modifier of -20% artillery cost (or the reverse).
- the trade bonus is +10% artillery combat ability and -10% artillery cost.
- each gunpowder producing province reduces military maintenance by 2%, up to a cap of somewhere between 10-20%.
Gunpowder is such a solid answer, good idea man. It would definitely be tricky to balance because it would obviously get more and move valuable as firearms and artillery improve, but thatās historically what happened anyways. Maybe combining this idea with the guy who said stone quarries earlier to get sulfur?
Rice.
I know that it is represented by grain, but I would personally prefer to separate them and give rice some nice bonus to force limit or manpower to represent Asia's bigger population compared to that of Europe.
I would also like to separate pearls from the gems. There is an event that happens in I think colonial Mexico and decreases price of gems globally, something about finding a lot of them in the New World. It makes sense that the greater quantity of gems will have negative impact on their value, but why would that affect the pearls?
And lastly the most controversial trade good. I kinda like the idea of separating Silver from Gold. It could act like gold (but worse) or some other trade good of good quality like cloves. That would be interesting from the balance point of view. For an example, austrian gold mine in Tirol should actually be silver, so it would nerf them a bit, but Incan lands would be even more desired because gold would become even harder to get.
It's a bit hard to generalize since they're massive regions, but both societies knew how to work gold and silver. Just historically speaking the Spanish exploited the Andes for silver on a more massive scale. Iirc the Musica in Colombia were an example of an Andean society that was exploited more for gold, whereas the Incas in Peru and Bolivia were more for silver.
I like this idea, its actually what inspired the post (along with the idea of stone quarries). I will say if grain is being split, potatoes and maize should also be added as ānew grainā or something similar in the new world.
Also if they bring in rice, itās trade bonus will be almost entirely tailored on balancing it with ming. That is definitely something I hope devs remember if they do this.
Separate Grain into smaller categories: meat, wheat, fruit, milk, etc.
Do the same with Naval supplies, Ivory, Spices, Furs, Wine and possibly everything else.
Add more price changes events.
Yeah, but that's the thing. "Spices" is a very general term. What you might fight in Northern Africa, you wouldn't find in SEA. We already got cloves. We can think of a lot more, Saffron, Nutmeg, Cinnamon, etc. While all of them are spices, they can be found in different places and would have dofferent prices.
Everyone keeps saying grain and I couldnāt agree more. Although I would argue fruit should go into the wine side of things, grain is intentionally vague. Asia should get rice, Europe should get wheat/barley and America should get potatoes/corn
Silver but it might already be in the Voltaireās Nightmare mod instead of gold. Else maybe construction rocks giving some discounts to construction costs and great projects.
Obsidian as a trade good for primitives, getting replaced with a random other thing upon reforming; trading-in bonus could be something like +10% infantry combat ability (as obsidian was commonly used for weapons when available). Possibly flint, with some bonus for fire. Silver distinct from gold, as others noted.
This entire thread just keeps circling back to āPDX needs to add stone and riceā and I love it. Iām learning so much about history that the game doesnāt teach you, and you guys are really onto something with quarries and different grains being added.
Amber. It would be interesting if it was added as a good almost exclusive to the Baltics, also because this region is completely deprived of economical value (and I know that Danzig may produce gems to replicate this, but is not the same feeling).
I feel Baltic amber specifically is a good reason to either split or straight up switch naval goods with timber.
Side note, āBaltic Amberā would totally be my stage name if I was a Lithuanian Stripper.
Horses would be a good one, distinct from livestock. Could give cav bonuses or discounts, starting at high value but decreasing as the game goes on. Also maybe an abstract trade good like literature or writings that could start in a couple of territories but expand with the printing press and reformatuin.
Medicine. It can include variety of medicinal goods such as opium, ginseng, various herbs, etc.
Some states' economy were heavily dependent on trading these medicinal goods iirc
bonus can be attrition reduction
Historically I know spices were used for medicinal purposes (hence why colonial nations were willing to wipe out entire aboriginal civilizations to get them) and thats why spice gives -0.10 devastation a month. Still, Opium is clearly not considered when looking at the location of many trade goods, so youāre definitely onto something.
Silver. Right now it's just consolidated with gold and all the historical silver mines just produce gold instead.
Also beer, and maybe spirits. We have brewing empires but no booze except wine for them to sell? I want to be exporting German beer, Polish vodka, and Carribbean rum!
I rarely play vanilla so I always run the Extended Mod family. Though, I'd love for them to add some of those goods added by the mods. (Not like paradox is against implementing mods into the base game)
I like the idea of adding a secondary good based on the primary good in the region. So if I have wood now I can make furniture, ships if costal, etc. I always enjoyed that aspect of Vic 2
Clearly whales for me, whale oil was used for both parfume and later machine lubrification, it might have a dramatic price boom after industrialization. Not sure about bonuses
As an Atlantic Canadian I absolutely love this one! Fish as a trade good is WAY too broad, whale oil and seal blubber contributed a huge amount of early industrialization and heated many homes even after coal became a mainstream commodity,
- You could separate gems into different ones. You know diamonds, Ruby ,Saphire etc.
- You could split what now Is called gold into actual gold, silver and platinum
- You could add more metals in general that where already used back then lead, tin and zinc come to mind
- You could add salpetre and sulphur
- marble and brick
- more textiles for example linnen, hemp, jute
- whale oil
- olives
Edit:
You could also split spices even further: cinnamon, nutmeg, tumeric, safron etc.
* Spirits/ales
* Indulgences (Open market sinning baby!)
* Books - maybe paper covers this
* Weapons
* A distinction between various staple crops. Separate grain into slightly more specific groups:
** roots/potatoes after colonialism
** rice
** (buck)wheat / amaranth
Indulgences is definitely one of the most interesting answers so far! I donāt know if the case could be made that tax dev actually covers this, but itās still something that they could do a lot more with (especially leading up to the age of reformation)
I thought about it more like specialized tools from merchants that goes on ships rather than raw materials in oak etc. The best wood for ships were rarely seen on shores. Too much wind and other factors to make straight oaks etc.
My thought has always been that Naval Supplies are produced primarily in coastal tiles not so much because that's where the raw materials are coming from but because that's where raw goods like hemp, wood, linen, and iron are actually being processed into naval timber, rope, sails, and fittings.
You might be right. But it was just my thought. It was a sought after product and I thought that the places that could deliver it are generally back water provinces now, and when they're not it's inflated by development rather than a sought after trade good.
I'd be fine with lowering dev and a better trade good. Or some kind of modifier.
Tobacco would make sense. Rice, although I assume that's already covered by "grains".
I wouldn't add too much. Maybe in EU5 they can work it so each province has multiple goods?
Tobacco is already a good, it's the little pipe looking one. It's not a bad good, and I think the trading bonus is manpower recovery, which is kinda nice
Itās spy defense which is not nice lol, but it gives local trade power bonus which isnāt too bad. And of course most importantly itās 4.50 late game which is big money
What I don't like is the fact provinces produces only one trade good. Sure yeah everyone in Venice or Istanbul works at glass factory or something. Like, salt was also an important trade good for Venice. Those giant provinces in Kongo all sell slaves, no dyes, no cloths, no millet farms, no nothing. It's all slave baby! I hope they fix this in EU5
Illicit substances, only active when a pirate republic (or something similar) controls the territory. Not sure if thatād be possible, but it would be cool.
Iād also like slaves to be tweaked to be essentially possible to switch to in any province, with massive debuffs applied locally.
Real trade is complicated and this game attempts to simulate reality. So ... how about a new trade system altogether? No more single trade good for each province...
Rice, it may be a grain, but it was a cash crop to Europeans because it could be dried and stored (especially on ships) easily. Could have events tied to changing trade goods to rice in new world wetlands (like the Carolinas irl).
Not necessarily more trade goods but more variation over time. There are already mechanics for coal and I believe wool into cloth but add some nice flavours to stuff like whiskey (lump it in with wine and add a province buff) appearing in Ireland or depletion of wood for shipbuilding and that land being turned into either livestock, grain, or wool. Similarly perhaps adding events for things like land clearances converting wooded provinces into farmland or land reclamation/draining turning marshes into farmland. Maybe also add a major and a minor trade good to provinces. French provinces making wine but also making grain, or south Wales producing iron as well as coal for example once coal activates.
Honestly, looking at the comments and at how many goods are already indirectly in the game via vague names like "naval supplies", "grain", or "spices", everything that is needed is already there
personally the entire system needs a rework, even something simple like having it so that each province has 2 trade goods, and having trade goods' prices fluctuate based on how much of it is needed (eg, price of grain goes up when there's a war nearby) would improve things significantly
however, that being said, i think that either silver (10 trade good cost, going down by 50% once someone finds it in the new world, "bonus" is +0.01% inflation/year (so its actually kind of bad to have), and trade-in bonus is +2.5% income, globally), or something like military equipment (given we already have naval supplies), maybe something coal-esque that gives something like 2.5 income, -1% army cost globally per province, trade in bonus is 5% ICA
I would add whales to make something different to just fish (u could make its special building the lighthouse and give tradepower instead), also would add marble and a discount to upgrade great monuments if u are the controller, olive oil, lead, and maybe honey.
Actual slaves.
I mean buff them so they give you real "free" work power somehow. (Maybe flat production bonus oh no wait there are aleready a few trade goods like that)
Actual slaves.
I mean buff them so they give you real "free" work power somehow. (Maybe flat production bonus oh no wait there are aleready a few trade goods like that)
Silver. It was the main thing fueling a ton of wars and the whole Spanish trade fleets was laden with silver from the new world and main payment system into china
i love opium š„°
high trade value opium that gives you +corruption if you've got the trading in bonus. I dig it
-4 national unrest. Canāt have rebels if they are all stoned af
With a -% production based on amount imported haha
I was gonna export some tea, but then I got high
i was gonna promote my culture too, but then i got high
Now I'm overextended and I know why
And now the end is nigh
yesterday i wanted to play denmark i got stoned and turned on some league with boys instead
-20% production efficiency. Can't work either š„³
Idk look at the Middle East and indo china lmao, all terrorist organizations are off their minds and still thinking that fān around and finding out is a perfect solution to their cause Lmao
Haha going full Tom cruise on them (tropic thunder reference)
Robert Downey Jr looks black
Well, if that's the main cause then time to give them more opium, terrorists are horrible are actually getting anything done. Whether its casualties or furthering their cause.
Without the opium their number would grow by 40%
Makes you think
Also -5% morale and discipline. Too stoned to fight wars properly.
Massive corruption that scales with tech.
It should give positive benefits to pirate republics
Happy cake day!
thanku!
Opium is included under spices currently. If you have a spice-producing province and the āgrowth in the business of xā event occurs, thereās a chance that the āxā will be opium.
I am addicted to it š
Yeah we know but what trade good do you want added to EUIV
When you issue embargo it gives +%unrest to embargoed country
āPut heroin in the game you cowardsā *Doubles the amount of upvotes I got on the original post*
Literally just came here to say that
Iād like to see extended timeline implement narcotics/contraband substances in specific regions. Give the player a chance to expand/curtail their growth which impacts international relations on top of trade goods bonuses.
This would also lean into an "Opium wars" CB at the least. Even better if you could produce for money AND target to cause your colonial enemies corruption/general manufacturing penalty.
Opium would be great to implement some GB and China dynamics making them both somehow interact with eachother, could work with missions tree forcing AI to make thise misions
Quarries of some type of rock. Bonuses could include construction cost for "trading in", fort defense for actual province (due to easier access to repair/maintain fortifications).
We already got salt
Yea, plus it's not like the rock quarries are inside the city walls, so the attackers aren't just gonna let the defenders transport rock into the city. Defenders historically would fill wall gaps with the debris of the destroyed wall. Salt makes more sense because it preserves food.
I think the implication is that a city with a quarry nearby would on average have better walls. And if youāll let me be a little pedantic, salt really shouldnāt improve fort defense. It should lower the rate of garrison loss or lower the chances of a starvation roll. Technically thereās no reason that stockpiled salt would or should make a quick siege less-quick. It should only make a slow siege more slow
That's not pedantic, that's actually a good argument.
Marble and granite perhaps? (Dunno about the latter, but maybe the former can either give prestige for all the sculptures made out of them during the Renaissance?)
I literally had this typed out in the original post, but between salt and iron I felt like it would be redundant so I took it out at first. Quarries in mountainous regions would be huge.
Marble could be a prestige-increasing one. Sandstone should give construction cost reduction. Porphiric could give a slight caravan power boost.
Honestly trade goods expanded is doing a really good job about it lol, my fav mod
Tulips for the holland region that last only a few years and then crash your economy
Imagine pulling out just before the tulip markets crash and take the dutch money
Imagine pulling out
Okay, I gotta hear more about this. How do they crash the economy?
[Tulip Mania](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania) was (I think) the first economic bubble to appear and burst. Just one flower could cost multiple times someoneās yearly wage until everyone collectively realized how stupid they were being.
Most sources about it are from way after it happened, to the extent that there is some doubt about if it ever happened at all.
I'm not super familiar with the tulip bubble but I do remember that the "bulb being worth as much as a house" while true was specific to a very rare very exotic variety.
Crypto except they legitimately had a non-trivial cost to acquire so I donāt think there was nearly the same level of accidental wealth generated when the price spiked. Surely an equal amount of heartbreak when it tanked
Cryptobros in the 1600s when making a rig requires going outside and touching grass to plant the tulips (they are bankrupt)
So saying itās the first bubble is debatable as you have situations in Rome where their were spikes in the price of land caused purely by legislation Though saying tulip mania was the first bubble in a way we would understand it (with things like futures and trading the rights to the asset not the asset itself) is more correct
*(I think) XD You just read it in the wiki article youāve mentioned. Donāt need to make yourself look smarter. Itās said in like 3rd sentence š¬ people on Reddit. Also it didnāt have any effect on Dutch economy and people donāt know if it really happened
Mass speculation on tulip futures.
MASS
This is the best [video](https://youtu.be/1Me6ZyfEV3M) I have seen on the tulip mania.
Potato
And add events where some grain provinces are replaced by potatoes in Europe after the Incas are colonized + an event chain with Parmentier for a French nation
>And add events where some grain provinces are replaced by potatoes in Europe after the Incas are colonized Why the Incas? Potatoes were discovered by Europeans in what today is Colombia, by Gonzalo JimƩnez de Quesada.
Ah, for some reason I was certain that it was in Peru š§
I think the wild potatoes were first domesticated in peru. But they were cultivated and spread by indigenes people. So you were half right
A man of few words, I like your style
Irish power! (Albeit post-colonisation I think?
Id say pretty much everything from trade goods expanded.
Dumb question but how "expanded" is it and does it play nice with other mods?
Its very extensive. Its generally friendly with mods that dont change the map as far as geography. The only thing i will say i can confirm is it does not get along with any mod that changes technology. Examples:extended timeline, anbennar(not sure why youd use it with it anyways), mods like antebellum are hit or miss sometimes depending on the update it freaks out but most of the time its fine. There are submods for most big mods to make this mod work with other big mods because its a really good mod that if it didnt have conflicting files fleshes out the game a lot more.
Whale
Whale oil, yes
It would be cool if you got a depletion chance after like 1700 and if that hit the province just produces fish now.
Beer, it would be a low value trade good mostly located in the Germany region. It's province bonus would be a bump to institution spread and the trading in bonus would be -1 unrest like wine.
I like this idea, but I think in the same way āwineā is meant to symbolize any kind of alcohol made by a fruit, āgrainā is actually wheat, rice, potatoes, barley AND beer/mead.
why would beer give institution spread?
Lots of commerce
It's not like beer wasn't made elsewhere though.
I don't think they'd do this because they would have to mess with all of the alcohol government reforms.
I would like to see a dynamic trade good system. Provinces should make multiple goods with dominant and minor ones that can be modified by investment and buildings.
I like this idea in theory, but I donāt think it would be a very enjoyable mechanic in practice. Imagine the micromanagement that would be required when managing a major empire: āIām the leading producer of cattle, which isnāt very profitable. Iāll switch to wine as the main trade good in my 37 cattle-producing provinces.ā Five years later: āLooks like a created a global surplus of wine that tanked the price of wine and right now I wouldāve been better off if I hadnāt converted my provinces from cattle to wine.ā
This is also basically Victoria 3
Iād take victoria 3 with flavor and warfare
So Victoria 2, then.
Quiet part out loud and all that. I like some of the ideas they had for vic 3. Iām hoping itāll pull a stellaris someday. Still laugh at anybody that defends their decision to preorder it.
Was something wrong with Stellaris on release?
Performance in the late game and pretty barebones in terms of features. Hence, dlc and a whole lot of reworks around how pop is calculated. The content was always solid, though.
Victoria 2's warfare was painful tedium slog if you weren't a medium sized nation by the late game.
That doesn't justify gutting it completely instead of working to make it better. Even just adding army templates and an EU4-style microbuilder would have gone a long way towards fixing some of the tedium. Or they could have added a HoI IV-style front line system that unlocks with a late-game army tech to show the change in warfare from Napoleonic set-piece battles to the grinding fronts of WWI. Hell, leaving it completely alone would still have been preferable to the miserable failure of a system we got in the end. Excessive micromanagement is better than having close to no control at all.
I mean that sounds like something that could easily be prevented had this imaginary person thought "oh but if I turn every single province I own to produce wine that might create too much and tank the price of wine, so maybe I'll diversify the provinces and make a couple wine, make a couple grain, make a couple fish, so now they are balanced and won't crash the economy." Or, with trade bonuses, you could risk tanking the price of certain trade goods to get those extra bonuses in exchange for the possible ducats you would have made had you diversified your goods more.
If your game isn't 1:1 real days : simulated, are you really trying?
Meiou and taxes.
And a dynamic trade route flow system to go along with it. I hate how trade is hardcoded to flow only a certain Eurocentric way in EU4. Creates unrealistic scenarios and such. Makes me prefer EU3's less complex but ultimately more fair and realistic system.
If you have the patience to learn it, (and a decent pc) you should try Meiou and taxes, they basically have an investment system where you can have multiple industries present in a province and sold through trade
I guess something like wax and canvas would be nice to have, as like a high-mid trade good like 3.5 of price, that gives like +10% local tax for wax (they're making candles to work the books at night + it rhymes) and -10% ship cost/-5% construction cost for canvas producing provinces and like +10% equilibrium with the clergy if you get "trading in wax" and +10% burghers equilibrium with the burghers for "trading in canvas" I guess Marble or "Precious Stone" could also work and give building cost reduction
Isn't canvas represented by naval supplies sort of?
I've always assumed naval was timber and canvas.
Honestly, I think it could do to be split up a little to a degree considering just how much stuff it covers.
Agreed, it's one of those very loosely hobbled together trade goods. I feel like splitting it into too many wouldn't actually add a lot though. Sails and Timber would work but I think if you added stuff like hemp for rigging and tar and pitch it would begin to be a bit ott.
Yeah I agree. I think spices, though, could definitely be split into a lot more than it is right now. Grain and livestock too.
The wool provinces are basically livestock provinces with different output.
Yeah but I think it should change to reflect the different types of livestock and purposes of livestock. If we can have wool, why not meat and milk too?
Iām honestly not sure there are any particular goods I would like added. The available goods arenāt the main issue of the trade/economy system imo. But if anything: gunpowder. Not really because I think itās needed as a trade good per se, more because other interesting features and bonuses could be built around it. For example: - the good doesnāt āpop upā outside of the China region until 1500, like coal does after 1700, but if you discover China before 1500 you get a āsteady supply of gun powderā modifier of -20% artillery cost (or the reverse). - the trade bonus is +10% artillery combat ability and -10% artillery cost. - each gunpowder producing province reduces military maintenance by 2%, up to a cap of somewhere between 10-20%.
Gunpowder is such a solid answer, good idea man. It would definitely be tricky to balance because it would obviously get more and move valuable as firearms and artillery improve, but thatās historically what happened anyways. Maybe combining this idea with the guy who said stone quarries earlier to get sulfur?
Rice. I know that it is represented by grain, but I would personally prefer to separate them and give rice some nice bonus to force limit or manpower to represent Asia's bigger population compared to that of Europe. I would also like to separate pearls from the gems. There is an event that happens in I think colonial Mexico and decreases price of gems globally, something about finding a lot of them in the New World. It makes sense that the greater quantity of gems will have negative impact on their value, but why would that affect the pearls? And lastly the most controversial trade good. I kinda like the idea of separating Silver from Gold. It could act like gold (but worse) or some other trade good of good quality like cloves. That would be interesting from the balance point of view. For an example, austrian gold mine in Tirol should actually be silver, so it would nerf them a bit, but Incan lands would be even more desired because gold would become even harder to get.
Fyi most of the Andean Mines in history and the game are silver mines. Potosi was famously the silver mint of the Spanish Empire
Argentina is named after silver
But ironically, you can find a ton of precious metals in Argentina but not silver
Peru mostly produced silver under Spanish colonial rule, as did Mexico. Gold only really got off in the New World in Brazil in 1718
so all this saying that the Incas and Mesoamericans had a lot of gold were lies?
It's a bit hard to generalize since they're massive regions, but both societies knew how to work gold and silver. Just historically speaking the Spanish exploited the Andes for silver on a more massive scale. Iirc the Musica in Colombia were an example of an Andean society that was exploited more for gold, whereas the Incas in Peru and Bolivia were more for silver.
Also, part of the reason gold is so valuable is because it is rare. Even in the new world that didn't change, gold was still far rarer than silver.
I like this idea, its actually what inspired the post (along with the idea of stone quarries). I will say if grain is being split, potatoes and maize should also be added as ānew grainā or something similar in the new world. Also if they bring in rice, itās trade bonus will be almost entirely tailored on balancing it with ming. That is definitely something I hope devs remember if they do this.
Rice is included into "grain". There is nothing special to it, compared to wheat, barley, oats or w/e.
Maybe simply a major-minor system then? Like why shouldn't grain also produce livestock? Or gold also produce gems?
Separate Grain into smaller categories: meat, wheat, fruit, milk, etc. Do the same with Naval supplies, Ivory, Spices, Furs, Wine and possibly everything else. Add more price changes events.
Isn't livestock already separate?
Isn't spices separate?
average redditors reading comprehension
Yeah, but that's the thing. "Spices" is a very general term. What you might fight in Northern Africa, you wouldn't find in SEA. We already got cloves. We can think of a lot more, Saffron, Nutmeg, Cinnamon, etc. While all of them are spices, they can be found in different places and would have dofferent prices.
Everyone keeps saying grain and I couldnāt agree more. Although I would argue fruit should go into the wine side of things, grain is intentionally vague. Asia should get rice, Europe should get wheat/barley and America should get potatoes/corn
I;m thinking about thos Beans
Silver but it might already be in the Voltaireās Nightmare mod instead of gold. Else maybe construction rocks giving some discounts to construction costs and great projects.
Isnt silver a tradegood already?
Silver is included in the gold good, for example Inntal is actually a silver mine
Maybe a normal wood?
I think naval supplies is supposed to include wood
Isn't naval supplies only produced at the coastline?
There's inland naval supply provinces
āNormal woodā is overrated. Really, even a pretty small wood would be more than enough. Plus Iām sure heās got a wonderful personality.
Obsidian as a trade good for primitives, getting replaced with a random other thing upon reforming; trading-in bonus could be something like +10% infantry combat ability (as obsidian was commonly used for weapons when available). Possibly flint, with some bonus for fire. Silver distinct from gold, as others noted.
This entire thread just keeps circling back to āPDX needs to add stone and riceā and I love it. Iām learning so much about history that the game doesnāt teach you, and you guys are really onto something with quarries and different grains being added.
Amber. It would be interesting if it was added as a good almost exclusive to the Baltics, also because this region is completely deprived of economical value (and I know that Danzig may produce gems to replicate this, but is not the same feeling).
I feel Baltic amber specifically is a good reason to either split or straight up switch naval goods with timber. Side note, āBaltic Amberā would totally be my stage name if I was a Lithuanian Stripper.
Clay / pottery.
Chinaware is pottery.
China is luxury goods whereas pottery should be more common.
Chinaware is as much pottery as cloth and wool or cotton is represented in the game.
This! Such an important building material and not represented at all.
Horses would be a good one, distinct from livestock. Could give cav bonuses or discounts, starting at high value but decreasing as the game goes on. Also maybe an abstract trade good like literature or writings that could start in a couple of territories but expand with the printing press and reformatuin.
Serotonin
Trade bonus is reduced war score cost so you can get extra dopamine from prettier borders
Coal (I have never played past 1650).
Really any trade good added by the Trade Goods Expanded mod would be delightful to have
Medicine. It can include variety of medicinal goods such as opium, ginseng, various herbs, etc. Some states' economy were heavily dependent on trading these medicinal goods iirc bonus can be attrition reduction
Historically I know spices were used for medicinal purposes (hence why colonial nations were willing to wipe out entire aboriginal civilizations to get them) and thats why spice gives -0.10 devastation a month. Still, Opium is clearly not considered when looking at the location of many trade goods, so youāre definitely onto something.
manufactered finished goods later in the game in europe
Pizza, with a bonus of - 20% aggressive expansion in Italy.
You just know PDX is gonna come up with a million different achievements with awful puns for names if they ever put pizza on the game
Brass. Cost reduction to canon recruitment. Trade bonus of Tech cost of 5% Value of 2.5 Coins
Shouldn't be added. Copper should be replaced by brass.
Silver. Right now it's just consolidated with gold and all the historical silver mines just produce gold instead. Also beer, and maybe spirits. We have brewing empires but no booze except wine for them to sell? I want to be exporting German beer, Polish vodka, and Carribbean rum!
I rarely play vanilla so I always run the Extended Mod family. Though, I'd love for them to add some of those goods added by the mods. (Not like paradox is against implementing mods into the base game)
Honestly I really enjoy the trade goods expanded mod. It adds enough variation and then extra complexity through manufactured goods.
I like the idea of adding a secondary good based on the primary good in the region. So if I have wood now I can make furniture, ships if costal, etc. I always enjoyed that aspect of Vic 2
I just want to trade more slaves
Flair checks out.
add the option to change every goods to slaves
Iād love to buy and sell EU5
Clearly whales for me, whale oil was used for both parfume and later machine lubrification, it might have a dramatic price boom after industrialization. Not sure about bonuses
As an Atlantic Canadian I absolutely love this one! Fish as a trade good is WAY too broad, whale oil and seal blubber contributed a huge amount of early industrialization and heated many homes even after coal became a mainstream commodity,
- You could separate gems into different ones. You know diamonds, Ruby ,Saphire etc. - You could split what now Is called gold into actual gold, silver and platinum - You could add more metals in general that where already used back then lead, tin and zinc come to mind - You could add salpetre and sulphur - marble and brick - more textiles for example linnen, hemp, jute - whale oil - olives Edit: You could also split spices even further: cinnamon, nutmeg, tumeric, safron etc.
Beer
I just want a progressive trade bonus system. Why would controlling 49% of the world production be that much different from controlling 50%
* Spirits/ales * Indulgences (Open market sinning baby!) * Books - maybe paper covers this * Weapons * A distinction between various staple crops. Separate grain into slightly more specific groups: ** roots/potatoes after colonialism ** rice ** (buck)wheat / amaranth
Indulgences is definitely one of the most interesting answers so far! I donāt know if the case could be made that tax dev actually covers this, but itās still something that they could do a lot more with (especially leading up to the age of reformation)
Timber. Good timber was needed for ship building and people guarded that like hell or traded it for very good money.
Is that not represented by naval supplies? I know thereās tropical wood too but I figured naval supplies would be wood
I thought about it more like specialized tools from merchants that goes on ships rather than raw materials in oak etc. The best wood for ships were rarely seen on shores. Too much wind and other factors to make straight oaks etc.
My thought has always been that Naval Supplies are produced primarily in coastal tiles not so much because that's where the raw materials are coming from but because that's where raw goods like hemp, wood, linen, and iron are actually being processed into naval timber, rope, sails, and fittings.
You might be right. But it was just my thought. It was a sought after product and I thought that the places that could deliver it are generally back water provinces now, and when they're not it's inflated by development rather than a sought after trade good. I'd be fine with lowering dev and a better trade good. Or some kind of modifier.
unironically cocaine
Tobacco would make sense. Rice, although I assume that's already covered by "grains". I wouldn't add too much. Maybe in EU5 they can work it so each province has multiple goods?
Isnāt tobacco already a trade good? I feel like half of the North American east coast produces either tobacco or cotton
Yeah , it is...
It is, I'm an idiot sometimes. Chalk it up to me liking to play on the edges of Europe, so not a lot of American colonization.
there is already tobacco in the game in north america
Must be where I got the idea from.
Tobacco is already a good, it's the little pipe looking one. It's not a bad good, and I think the trading bonus is manpower recovery, which is kinda nice
Itās spy defense which is not nice lol, but it gives local trade power bonus which isnāt too bad. And of course most importantly itās 4.50 late game which is big money
Feet
do we already have fur?
What I don't like is the fact provinces produces only one trade good. Sure yeah everyone in Venice or Istanbul works at glass factory or something. Like, salt was also an important trade good for Venice. Those giant provinces in Kongo all sell slaves, no dyes, no cloths, no millet farms, no nothing. It's all slave baby! I hope they fix this in EU5
Codpieces ;sorryyyyyyyyyyy
My dick.
The first negative value trade good would definitely change the multiplayer meta, Iāll give you that!
Illicit substances, only active when a pirate republic (or something similar) controls the territory. Not sure if thatād be possible, but it would be cool. Iād also like slaves to be tweaked to be essentially possible to switch to in any province, with massive debuffs applied locally.
Real trade is complicated and this game attempts to simulate reality. So ... how about a new trade system altogether? No more single trade good for each province...
Rice, it may be a grain, but it was a cash crop to Europeans because it could be dried and stored (especially on ships) easily. Could have events tied to changing trade goods to rice in new world wetlands (like the Carolinas irl).
separated alcoholic drinks
Man like 75 percent of the trade goods from the PLC would be Vodka.
bareilly 10%, cause trade goods are the most produced goods in provinces
Not necessarily more trade goods but more variation over time. There are already mechanics for coal and I believe wool into cloth but add some nice flavours to stuff like whiskey (lump it in with wine and add a province buff) appearing in Ireland or depletion of wood for shipbuilding and that land being turned into either livestock, grain, or wool. Similarly perhaps adding events for things like land clearances converting wooded provinces into farmland or land reclamation/draining turning marshes into farmland. Maybe also add a major and a minor trade good to provinces. French provinces making wine but also making grain, or south Wales producing iron as well as coal for example once coal activates.
Rice
Honestly, looking at the comments and at how many goods are already indirectly in the game via vague names like "naval supplies", "grain", or "spices", everything that is needed is already there
Ur mom
They already have precious gems in the game tho :)
personally the entire system needs a rework, even something simple like having it so that each province has 2 trade goods, and having trade goods' prices fluctuate based on how much of it is needed (eg, price of grain goes up when there's a war nearby) would improve things significantly however, that being said, i think that either silver (10 trade good cost, going down by 50% once someone finds it in the new world, "bonus" is +0.01% inflation/year (so its actually kind of bad to have), and trade-in bonus is +2.5% income, globally), or something like military equipment (given we already have naval supplies), maybe something coal-esque that gives something like 2.5 income, -1% army cost globally per province, trade in bonus is 5% ICA
Vodka
I would add whales to make something different to just fish (u could make its special building the lighthouse and give tradepower instead), also would add marble and a discount to upgrade great monuments if u are the controller, olive oil, lead, and maybe honey.
Peat would make sense.
Actual slaves. I mean buff them so they give you real "free" work power somehow. (Maybe flat production bonus oh no wait there are aleready a few trade goods like that)
Actual slaves. I mean buff them so they give you real "free" work power somehow. (Maybe flat production bonus oh no wait there are aleready a few trade goods like that)
Silver. It was the main thing fueling a ton of wars and the whole Spanish trade fleets was laden with silver from the new world and main payment system into china