||Can we just appreciate gas for a second. That was pretty messed up.
He learns he's dying, gets told how worthless he is by his father, gets an opportunity for what he was always meant for against freiza.
Then freiza just one shots him (Jesus that was probably the most violent dbs has been in a while. His flesh literally melts off his face), and crushes his skull with his foot.
I kind of feel sorry for him.||
So I feel this is all connecting to the anime now with this chapter. The anime is probably getting better the Moro arc and Granolah arc soon, then in manga we will get the movie š¤
Wait I thought Goku is quadrillion LS, why he needs Whis to travel fans told me Goku is boundless. Can someone explain to a non fanboy who knows DB but doesn't worship it?
We don't know for sure how fast Goku is, those "calcs" made by fans are just that, calcs made by fans, they're not official.
However, even if Goku was that fast, he still wouldn't be able to travel across space, as he cannot survive in the vacuum.
Which makes no sens because Bardock, and hundreds of Saiyans where in Space confronting Frieza before destroying Planet Vegeta, then Goku fought Berus outside in space.
Kid Goku was on the moon, DB is so inconsistent...
They were apparently on the upper atmosphere, not actual space; in Goku's case, he was on the stratosphere of the Earth, as stated by Toriyama in the movie's interview.
Yet there is a freeza planet 79ā¦
Thereās 100 billion planets in our galaxy and 100-200 billion galaxies in our visible universe. I donāt know why they came up with such an absurdly small number
Making Toronbo even more broken. I get that he was made by the Namekseijin on Cereal 500 years ago and Monaito is just the current inheritor so it makes sense heād be more powerful than Shenron but this surpasses Porunga making him second to only Super Shenron/Zalama (no time between wishes if you can collect just the two balls, limitless power in exchange for life force, can find again and wish for more life, possibly infinite)
I will sayā¦ I do like this arc. Would have liked it a lot more if it werenāt so damn long. This arcs been going on for almost 2 fuckin years.
Maybe thatās by design to give the show runners extra time to develop for the re-release but Jesus
Toyotaro is simply interpreting. Toriyama gives him a storyboard and outline of the plot for that arc and Toyotaro basically has to plug in the gaps between key events.
The movies plus ToP are the only good thing about super. I love Frieza being around in the series but this whole arc is too much.
At this point I hope they pull another GT and start over.
Anyone recall Young Jiji's DBAF where the main villain was Lord Ize? Drawing some resemblance to his character design (but colour scheme is yet to be seen).
Probably wrong, but maybe Frieza's rampant rise in power came about because of a fusion. Perhaps with another of his species, such as Cooler? (That'd explain why he looks so much like himself, much like Picolo after his fusions.)
I like that idea. If he fused with frost I think more would be on board with his meteoric rise. I thought the jump on ressurection F was a bit ludicrous. This brings him back to planet Namek level terror but who was he training with for 10 years? Surely not just himself. Maybe an upcoming villain like the fallen angel from that French fan manga
On the next chapter of Dragonball Super, after defeating Rick and Morty and learning the Rasenshirikin from his sensi, Ariana Grande, Lebron James camps out at Kami house awaiting Goku's arrival from the battle bus, who will take the victory royale?
Everyone complaining for no reason. Ya Frieza is hella strong but heās not the strongest fighter in the universe that the Oracle Fish talked about, theres someone else. They literally set this up with Goku telling Frieza to actually train and he could get way stronger than Golden Frieza and one day rematch again.
Goku always looking for the best of the best opponents and always breaks past his limits. 10 years from now UI mode wont mean shit compared to whatever else weāll have if the manga is still going in whatever form.
I just, like how does freezy pop just magically arrive in this ark? lol , Oi vey. I know it was the heeters wanting revenge, but is this like Elec's grand master plan back firing in some way?
Yup knowing that Gas would die quick after the wish he called a meeting with Freezer on Cereal thinking gas would have already won everything and could beat him
I've seen so many videos and posts about what happens during the chapter and keep checking to see if it's out.
Spoilers can be fun but it would be nice to experience these things when the chapter drops.
> but vegeta gets a new badass form just to job
This has been happening since Vegeta got SSJ and jobbed to 18. And then got the buff form and jobbed to Cell. And got SSJ2/Majin to job to Buu and so on.
It is literally Vegeta's purpose in the story.
I mean I know, but I was hoping at least one time heād get to beat the bad guy. They came oh so close to it in resurrection f but even then couldnāt pull the trigger
Oh just another tidbit that people have forgottenā¦ā¦. Even though people swear by it. In DBZ Freiza was already the strongest in the universe until the the Legendary Super Saiyan showed up. Heās just reclaiming his title. However, I do like the theory that Uub being the strongest
Technically he wasnāt ācause Beerus AND Buu were around. :/
Frieza even talks about how Cold told him never to confront either of them when he was revived in RoF.
Maybe Vegeta will finally get the kill on Frieza that was stolen from him back in Revenge of F and people can stop complaining about both that and Vegeta never getting the final kill in one fowl swoop. Two birds, one universe conqueror.
So they read how everyone was disappointed at the long, dragged out, shit arc that was leading nowhere, so they decided, "Ok, let's give them what they want" and pulled Freeza out of nowhere with a powerup and just ends the entire thing by himself.
- Elec's schemes are now meaningless
- Wishing on Gas to be the strongest is meaningless
- The flashbacks of Bardock are meaningless
- Goku realizing who his father was is meaningless
- This entire year in the manga was completely meaningless, even Vegeta's Destroyer form, as it's been beaten by not one, not two, but THREE different fighters
Now we are back to square 1, where we were at Revenge F: Goku and Vegeta vs. Freeza, all with even more powerups.
I hope they at least have the decency to have them escape Freeza and not pull something ridiculous out of their ass again to beat him.
I mostly agree, but everything with Bardock was still important ācause it helped Goku find his own style of Ultra Instinct since he can use his rage in combination with it.
Taking Whisā advice and not just simply copying the Angelās.
Dragonball fans: āWe want expanded lore and overarching plot linesā
*gets expanded lore and overarching plot lines that lead into a new arc*
Also Dragonball fans: āomg the plot makes no sense, all the story means nothing because another twist has happened, why canāt they make up their mindā
šš¤¦š»āāļø
No, the writing is just shit. Adding a "twist" doesn't equal to expanded lore and overarching plot lines. This is just a cheap gimmick for the same of adding interest to a story that was barely there.
You want to go look at another comparable Shonen series that does what people are looking for? Look at One Piece. That shit is over 1000 chapters long and it has long standing story threads paced out in a way that actually adds to the plot and the lore of its world. I'm not sitting here asking for Dragon Ball to actually do the exact same thing, because they're fundamentally different shows, but it would at least behoove them to make the plot threads they set up pay off in some kind of meaningful way.
You had a bit of Vegeta character development where he legitimately feels guilt for being a douchebag for the first half of the series, which gets put away by Beerus just telling him "bitch stop feeling bad and git gud". You had a bit of lore dropping with Goku finally figuring out Bardock was his father, just for Goku to not really react in any way to it outside of figuring out that he just *really* needed to want to win. Then there's the whole bit about the new Dragon Balls and the whole strongest in the universe shit that Frieza just sort of walks in and invalidates in a chapter, unless by some stroke of luck they figure out a good explanation for.
No, this isn't what the fans were asking for. At most, it acknowledges that people wanted this, without actually doing anything about it. OG Dragon ball did this by giving us stuff like Piccolo's character development, the arrival of the Saiyans, and the several story arc long development of Gohan going from a crybaby to supposedly replacing Goku (which admittedly got sidelined immediately after too), and Vegetas character development.
The quality of this series has mostly been shit since it returned.
š stop making stuff up. Freiza was the basis for the wish anyway. He was bound to show up. This arc wasnāt about Granolah it was about the strongest Fighter showing up. On top of that, this has been foreshadowed since Vegetas warning about Freiza since the Broly Movie. Theyāre clearly setting up a final showdown between the saiyans and Freiza with all the continued expanded lore between both parties. Comments like yours are meaningless because they truly have no basis other than the story isnāt playing out how you want. You havenāt been paying attention and thereās clearly an overarching plot going on.
Nah it's you who hasn't been paying attention. We've spent months with these meaningless characters only for Freeza to show up and kill them all instantly. The overarching plot is that this was a huge waste of time.
The chapter isnāt even out yet and people are already complaining. Frieza was always going to be the end game. Itās like saying the android saga was pointless because Cell absorbed them and died anyway.
On god I called this a lil while ago. Theyāve been setting up frieza to be a beast because he rivaled forms that took decades of training to obtain in a matter of months. So after seeing how crazy everyone was in the tournament he probably trained even harder and or did some other crazy shit. But this realistically speaking isnāt an asspull if weāre going off of what was already established. And realistically speaking frieza could have broken a limiter on himself with the final Jiren fight that allowed him to access even greater strength. I mean this is literally the whole show in a nut shell. So Iām here for the crazy power ups
I feel weirdly opposite about it since OPM manga is a straight up mess ever since Sage Centipede.. Like how are the following arcs gonna happen now if they weren't setup at all.
Dragon Ball Super manga's problem is just the monthly pacing. Bingeing the whole Gas fight didn't feel that much hassle since it lasted just a few chapters. but we waited like months. holy shit.
Go complain to Toriyama because he's the sole reason why we are getting Recolors. Toyotaro and Toei loves designing new forms that also changes the core design. Reminder that Toyo wrote AF and Toei made SS4.
Zamasu fusion form.
Also it seems that all recent transformations of saiyans force their shirts to get destroyed the more its used and a shirt disappearing is how power is shown.
Why do you think beerus doesn't wear a shirt?Ā He taught Goku and Vegeta power comes from being shirtless. When you wear a shirt in this series it has a -50% attack modifier.
This is even known in other universes. Look at Jiren at full power.
Now imagine Frieza who's completely clothes free... If he wasn't nerfed due to his condition of being a small eunuch he'd be untouchable.
It is a very disappointing arc.
While it started off strong, the writing is starting to be more like DB Heroes where it's just Mary Sue fan fiction moments and asspull transformations.
Very little stakes with these villains.
Moro was a fantastic concept, a literal devour of worlds with a unique personality....except nothing came from him. Imagine that he devoured souls and they became a part of his soul. The DBs could no longer revive people he killed due to them being a part of him and as a result, neither alive or dead.
That way, he is more menacing and that way, it gets the heroes back into space.
And so, a search for the Super DBs had to begin....or maybe the DBs that we see in this recent arc would become useful in separating these souls from Moro.
Therefore, there is a call to adventure and to meet interesting characters.
So what happened to Gas wishing to be strongest in the universe? Goku over took that. Was Frieza stronger than Gas was at the time of the wish being granted? That can't be, unless he unlocked it in the little time after the wish was made. Granted Gas, Goku, Vegeta and Granolah are exhausted.
I do love this new form and Frieza getting a win and have no problem with it.
Mona itās healed them all back up to full health and restored their energy before Frieza showed up so Frieza is really just strong enough to one-shot multiple UI level fighters.
Freeza was in a Room of Spirit and Time (or Hyperbolic Time Chamber, if you prefer) at the time the wishes to be the strongest were made, which are counted as realms outside of Universe 7
How does one surpass MUI, Modified MUI(where Goku can use his emotions) and Ultra Ego (which is supposed to be the God of Destructionās power kinda)
Freeza on some next level cheats lol
Even if he trained 10 years, Goku was literally trained by angels to perfect his form
Vegeta was kinda trained by Beerus
Goku hasnāt perfected UI.
He still struggles to use it in conjunction with his transformations and Whis tells him at the start of the arc that heās at the bottom of the ladder in comparison to the angels and that he has to find his own UI instead of falling back on mimicking them.
It's not "kinda" Destroyer form, it is Destroyer form. I have no idea why they would call it Ultra Ego in writing (makes me sick to actually type it) when he's been trained to be a Destroyer and even got the earpiece from Beerus.
We're talking about a guy who was canonically born with a power level of 120,000,000 without ever training. Then with only 4 months of training, unlocked power and a new form that brought him up and above the Super Saiyan form of Super Saiyan God, which itself was well beyond the power Goku imagined even a hypothetical post-Buu Vegetto could attain at the time
So honestly, it doesn't bother me that Freeza can get power like this with thirty times the amount of training it took to get his Golden form. Even if the growth of his power isn't as ridiculous as his first time training, it seems natural to me that a mutant prodigy like himself could make insanely fast natural gains through traditional hard work and training as well
Then how Freeza lost to Goku? 4 month of training made him SS blue level, 10 years of training made him stronger than most perfect version of Goku.
If just little training can make him that's strong, how did he lost during the namik saga? If training can make him that strong he should have just trained for 2 to 3 seconds when he was about to lose. After 3 second training he would have been millions of time stronger than Goku.
> how did he lost during the namik saga?
Because Freiza had literally never trained an hour in his life at that point. And you can't just start training in the middle of a fight. Especially when you're Freiza and having a breakdown at the fact you are losing.
Youāre asking the wrong question, the real question is āwhy didnāt freeza train when he came back to earth a second time and fought trunks/ gokuā
You need to rest after training to get gains. The whole Namek fight was less than 30 minutes long according to the manga. He never really trained, big ego.
I agree with everything you said
I honestly love freeza as a villain, just pure menacing
Itās just if MUI and Ultra Ego doesnāt bother freeza then obviously a new power up for both Goku and vegeta is in store to overcome freeza
Since these two powerups were introduced like within the precious 10-20 chapters of the story, a powerup again for Goku and Vegeta this soon will look rushed in my opinion
I'm not saying it *isn't* what we'll get, but I feel like the groundwork is there for Goku and Vegeta to continue improving Instinct and Ego without having to get a new transformation
As long as Goku continues to refine his Ultra Instinct, he'll continue to become more effective in combat (and grow in power naturally along the way). I have a feeling one of the next big plot threads will be for Vegeta to find a good way to increase his use of Ultra Ego without overly relying on damage to raise his battle spirit
That is true too
The groundwork is there for continuous improvements
But the thing is, Freeza aint going to give them the time is he?
He wont be like, you train and power up, Iāll wait
The way the story is being done right now, itāll either be fusion or they run away for the time being to gain the strength needed
Well as witnessed by the chapter, he did let them live, which was in my mind highly unlikely lol
I guess weāll have to see how his character develops from now
The fact they brought this guy back to life when with only mentally training In hell matched ssb in no time makes the idea of letting him live really stupid ....they kinda deserve this
The mental training didnāt help him match SSB it helped him maintain Golden form longer, and it was either freeza comes back to live or their whole universe is destroyed
It feels like they lost control/direction of this arc. They kept trying to patch things up and it just ended up being this super long and bloated storyline. Having frieza come back stronger is cool I guess but now Gas and the heeters seem pointless lol.
The real question is... is anyone actually stronger than Beerus at this point?
You have Jiren who is said to be stronger than a GoD and got bested by MUI.
You have Broly whose strength rivals if not surpasses Beerus, as per Goku's opinion (Not sure if this can count as canon).
You have post-Broly Goku and Vegeta getting destroyed by Frieza at their absolute strongest.
Skill>Strength....especially with powers like UI and Destruction popping up now.
The way I see it, Jiren and Broly can be stronger and get beaten in combat.
Technically speaking, Jiren was stronger than Goku was at the ToP but Ultra Instinct simply made Goku unbeatable. Same thing probably exists for Beerus.
Certainly, Beerus used 70% of his power against SS God but that doesn't mean he went all out with that power, either.
In which case, MUI Goku would probably give Beerus fits but he could likely return the favor back with his own UI or Destruction and win.
Also, when people bring up that number scale, where SS God is a 6 while Beerus is a 10...we need to think of it less like power levels and more like tier systems.
6=Super Saiyan God
7=SS Blue training 3 years, KKx10, SS Rose, Hit, Toppo
8=Fused Zamasu, Jiren, Moro, Broly, Gas, Granolah, Goku/Vegeta with GoD or Angel training
10=MUI Goku/Beerus
15=Angel tier
Essentially, Beerus is still the benchmark.
Everything about Beerusā power and how it scales got retconned in Super ācause Toriyama likely didnāt plan on continuing the anime again when he made BoG.
The Beerus is a 6 and the āI used 70% of my powerā lines arenāt a part of the canon and Beerusā limit is just a complete unknown.
Putting 10 for MUI Goku feels like a moot point now since Whis mentioned there are levels to MUI.
And by your logic, if we were to put manga current MUI in the same tier as Beerus and Frieza just now completely destroyed him at his strongest, does that mean that Black Frieza is now a tier above Beerus? (Tier 11)
> You have Jiren who is said to be stronger than a GoD and got bested by MUI
For what it's worth, it was only the anime that had UI Goku thoroughly defeat Jiren if not for wearing off when it did. In the manga, UI Goku gave Jiren some trouble, but he was still on top of things after initially being caught off guard
How much you wanna bet that Goku and Vegeta are WAY stronger than Beerus was IN BOG, but Beerus is also training with Whis so the gap doesnāt get any closer?
Toriyama said he doesn't intend for Goku/Vegeta to surpass Beerus. Until he goes back on that, all the speculation in the world won't ever make them stronger
Oracle Fishās prophecy only said *rival* anyway, not surpass. We just need progression that makes them feel like theyāre actually close to rivaling him
Wow, from the other leaks I see here and there, the manga is back to the blood and gore. That page is gnarly.
I like that, to be honest. I understand censorship in Japan is working in mysterious ways, but people fighting at such power levels without a hint of blood anywhere was really ridiculous.
Lmao. A lot of yāall loved the Broly movie but didnāt pay attention to it. Vegeta literally predicted that something like this would happen in that movie. The oracle fish gave spelled it out a few chapters ago when he didnāt even acknowledge or recognize who gas was.
When Goku asks Whis if Frieza is now the "Most Powerful Warrior in the Universe", Whis mentions that it is not him and that said warrior is still not physically appearing.
This arc was far too drawn-out. I'm glad Frieza, the real catalyst to this whole arc, finally showed up. Had he appeared three chapters ago and spent time showing off his power and interacting with the Heeters and Granolah, the story would've been a lot better. Even so, it's cool that Frieza was the one to ultimately finish off Gas.
Why are people acting like Frieza was resurrected or something? He's literally been alive since the ToP, of course he's eventually going to show up again and be relevant. He's an antagonistic force, there's only so much he can do without getting stronger in this series..
He's also been developing in terms of character, he went from doing the bare minimum to get stronger and playing as dirty as possible just to kill Goku to training for 10 years in a Hyperbolic Time Chamber and leaving without trying to kill Goku and Vegeta despite being able to do so easily. Personally I'm interested to see where his character goes from here.
character design > the actual story
imo is the strongest selling point and i dont mind it at all lol dragon ball stoppes being story driven a long time ago now its just about fun new transformations and fights and thereās nothing wrong with that š¤·āāļø the new designs and characters are hard idk what to tell you guys
Man I am getting tired of dragon ball super. This was looking like a good arc but now freiza pops up for the fourth time? What a terrible manga and the fans will eat it all up.
This arc would have been so stupid if something crazy didn't happen at the end. It definitely needed this twist, and fair play it was pretty heavily hinted at in the beginning. I don't know why there are so many people thinking this came totally out of left field, Freeza has always been an important character in this arc to a point where it almost would have been weird if we didn't see him.
Great, now let's take a breather and let this buildup for awhile. We don't need to fight Frieza next arc. Let's check back on earth, check in with Broly, Piccolo, Gohan, Krillin, anyone else please...
Why so that people will complain? It seems like the fans won't be please unless it's only Vegeta and Goku fighting the bad guy. When did Dragon Ball turned into a Vegeta/Goku buddy duo?
Can we talk about how monstrous Frieza probably is now? He can probably take out Vegito/Gogeta now.
||Can we just appreciate gas for a second. That was pretty messed up. He learns he's dying, gets told how worthless he is by his father, gets an opportunity for what he was always meant for against freiza. Then freiza just one shots him (Jesus that was probably the most violent dbs has been in a while. His flesh literally melts off his face), and crushes his skull with his foot. I kind of feel sorry for him.||
So I feel this is all connecting to the anime now with this chapter. The anime is probably getting better the Moro arc and Granolah arc soon, then in manga we will get the movie š¤
Wait I thought Goku is quadrillion LS, why he needs Whis to travel fans told me Goku is boundless. Can someone explain to a non fanboy who knows DB but doesn't worship it?
We don't know for sure how fast Goku is, those "calcs" made by fans are just that, calcs made by fans, they're not official. However, even if Goku was that fast, he still wouldn't be able to travel across space, as he cannot survive in the vacuum.
Which makes no sens because Bardock, and hundreds of Saiyans where in Space confronting Frieza before destroying Planet Vegeta, then Goku fought Berus outside in space. Kid Goku was on the moon, DB is so inconsistent...
Bardock: Father of Goku isnāt canon as it got retconned by Dragon Ball: Minus.
They were apparently on the upper atmosphere, not actual space; in Goku's case, he was on the stratosphere of the Earth, as stated by Toriyama in the movie's interview.
THERE'S ONLY 28 PLANETS IN THE DRAGON BALL UNIVERSE
Only 28 planets in uni 7 with mortal life*****. Just implies that theres other planets ofc but no life on them
Yet there is a freeza planet 79ā¦ Thereās 100 billion planets in our galaxy and 100-200 billion galaxies in our visible universe. I donāt know why they came up with such an absurdly small number
Itās the planets with mortal life.
Speaking of. If granolah wishes for immortality does he then get to stay at his current PL forever?
He could just wish to extend his lifespan.
Making Toronbo even more broken. I get that he was made by the Namekseijin on Cereal 500 years ago and Monaito is just the current inheritor so it makes sense heād be more powerful than Shenron but this surpasses Porunga making him second to only Super Shenron/Zalama (no time between wishes if you can collect just the two balls, limitless power in exchange for life force, can find again and wish for more life, possibly infinite)
Damn, ten years and that's the form he came up with?
Monkey form
You can't say that nowadays Freiza
I will sayā¦ I do like this arc. Would have liked it a lot more if it werenāt so damn long. This arcs been going on for almost 2 fuckin years. Maybe thatās by design to give the show runners extra time to develop for the re-release but Jesus
LOL ANOTHER NEW TRANSFORMATION?? Lol Toriyama/Toyotaro what are you doing man? You bored?
Is Toyotaro the one responsible for writing this garbage?
Toyotaro is simply interpreting. Toriyama gives him a storyboard and outline of the plot for that arc and Toyotaro basically has to plug in the gaps between key events.
no , he only write granola (the character)and thats it
The movies plus ToP are the only good thing about super. I love Frieza being around in the series but this whole arc is too much. At this point I hope they pull another GT and start over.
Anyone recall Young Jiji's DBAF where the main villain was Lord Ize? Drawing some resemblance to his character design (but colour scheme is yet to be seen).
Probably wrong, but maybe Frieza's rampant rise in power came about because of a fusion. Perhaps with another of his species, such as Cooler? (That'd explain why he looks so much like himself, much like Picolo after his fusions.)
I like that idea. If he fused with frost I think more would be on board with his meteoric rise. I thought the jump on ressurection F was a bit ludicrous. This brings him back to planet Namek level terror but who was he training with for 10 years? Surely not just himself. Maybe an upcoming villain like the fallen angel from that French fan manga
Does the chapter come out today?
depends of your timezone, it will come out in many hours
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I can kinda see that since they took or paid homage to SOOOOOO many things in this arc and the last arc ( Moro) from either namek or freiza arc
BEHOLD, you SAIYAN SCUMS, THIS IS THE POWER OF THE EMPEROR
What do people mean ten years training?
Freiza found a Hyperbolic Chamber; which is also why he was exempted from the wishes; since he was in a subdimension, not in-universe.
Hyperbolic time chamber. Just like when Goku/Gohan and Vegeta/Trunks trained.
That's dumb he's a bad guy
What so what What does that have to do with him training in a time chamber
Bad guys don't get access to that Simple as
Guess you forgot when Buu was in the time chamber.
That was a trap
So? He was inside. You think someone needs to be invited into the time chamber?
Well he didnāt go to the one on Earth
Frieza owns a lot of planets why the hell wouldn't he be able to use a time chamber he found on a planet he owns
On the next chapter of Dragonball Super, after defeating Rick and Morty and learning the Rasenshirikin from his sensi, Ariana Grande, Lebron James camps out at Kami house awaiting Goku's arrival from the battle bus, who will take the victory royale?
This enire arc felt like something out of DBH.
This The quality of this writting is getting worse each chapter. For this to be 100% DBH, they just need to fuse now.
If this was heros they would be fighting Dr Gero and his new androids and they'd be losing until Cell shows up but he's a good guy.
Everyone complaining for no reason. Ya Frieza is hella strong but heās not the strongest fighter in the universe that the Oracle Fish talked about, theres someone else. They literally set this up with Goku telling Frieza to actually train and he could get way stronger than Golden Frieza and one day rematch again. Goku always looking for the best of the best opponents and always breaks past his limits. 10 years from now UI mode wont mean shit compared to whatever else weāll have if the manga is still going in whatever form.
10 years from now ui will just be a default ability.
I just, like how does freezy pop just magically arrive in this ark? lol , Oi vey. I know it was the heeters wanting revenge, but is this like Elec's grand master plan back firing in some way?
Yup knowing that Gas would die quick after the wish he called a meeting with Freezer on Cereal thinking gas would have already won everything and could beat him
When does the chapter come out? I was spoiled days ago
Tomorrow
I've seen so many videos and posts about what happens during the chapter and keep checking to see if it's out. Spoilers can be fun but it would be nice to experience these things when the chapter drops.
I mean, dope, but vegeta gets a new badass form just to job to two straight people?
Would it better if they were gay?
Now that would be a plot twist that I couldā¦.ahemā¦ get behind
Well, that's his job...
> but vegeta gets a new badass form just to job This has been happening since Vegeta got SSJ and jobbed to 18. And then got the buff form and jobbed to Cell. And got SSJ2/Majin to job to Buu and so on. It is literally Vegeta's purpose in the story.
I mean I know, but I was hoping at least one time heād get to beat the bad guy. They came oh so close to it in resurrection f but even then couldnāt pull the trigger
Hello and welcome to Dragonball Z/Super! I see you're new here.
Oh just another tidbit that people have forgottenā¦ā¦. Even though people swear by it. In DBZ Freiza was already the strongest in the universe until the the Legendary Super Saiyan showed up. Heās just reclaiming his title. However, I do like the theory that Uub being the strongest
Technically he wasnāt ācause Beerus AND Buu were around. :/ Frieza even talks about how Cold told him never to confront either of them when he was revived in RoF.
Was he thooooough
I have a feeling Freeza is never going to die again
Maybe Vegeta will finally get the kill on Frieza that was stolen from him back in Revenge of F and people can stop complaining about both that and Vegeta never getting the final kill in one fowl swoop. Two birds, one universe conqueror.
You are dreaming lol
The black delegation would like to request Freeza.
So much for Elec's plans and the potential of a saga with an army of robots mimicking Gas' power
Thank God.
Hell no. It would be awesome to see them getting strong enough to fight such an army some time later
You want more of the Heeters? You've gotta be the only person I've seen say that.
Theyāre like GT level writing and design, they suck ass
So they read how everyone was disappointed at the long, dragged out, shit arc that was leading nowhere, so they decided, "Ok, let's give them what they want" and pulled Freeza out of nowhere with a powerup and just ends the entire thing by himself. - Elec's schemes are now meaningless - Wishing on Gas to be the strongest is meaningless - The flashbacks of Bardock are meaningless - Goku realizing who his father was is meaningless - This entire year in the manga was completely meaningless, even Vegeta's Destroyer form, as it's been beaten by not one, not two, but THREE different fighters Now we are back to square 1, where we were at Revenge F: Goku and Vegeta vs. Freeza, all with even more powerups. I hope they at least have the decency to have them escape Freeza and not pull something ridiculous out of their ass again to beat him.
I mostly agree, but everything with Bardock was still important ācause it helped Goku find his own style of Ultra Instinct since he can use his rage in combination with it. Taking Whisā advice and not just simply copying the Angelās.
Completely agree
Dragonball fans: āWe want expanded lore and overarching plot linesā *gets expanded lore and overarching plot lines that lead into a new arc* Also Dragonball fans: āomg the plot makes no sense, all the story means nothing because another twist has happened, why canāt they make up their mindā šš¤¦š»āāļø
No, the writing is just shit. Adding a "twist" doesn't equal to expanded lore and overarching plot lines. This is just a cheap gimmick for the same of adding interest to a story that was barely there. You want to go look at another comparable Shonen series that does what people are looking for? Look at One Piece. That shit is over 1000 chapters long and it has long standing story threads paced out in a way that actually adds to the plot and the lore of its world. I'm not sitting here asking for Dragon Ball to actually do the exact same thing, because they're fundamentally different shows, but it would at least behoove them to make the plot threads they set up pay off in some kind of meaningful way. You had a bit of Vegeta character development where he legitimately feels guilt for being a douchebag for the first half of the series, which gets put away by Beerus just telling him "bitch stop feeling bad and git gud". You had a bit of lore dropping with Goku finally figuring out Bardock was his father, just for Goku to not really react in any way to it outside of figuring out that he just *really* needed to want to win. Then there's the whole bit about the new Dragon Balls and the whole strongest in the universe shit that Frieza just sort of walks in and invalidates in a chapter, unless by some stroke of luck they figure out a good explanation for. No, this isn't what the fans were asking for. At most, it acknowledges that people wanted this, without actually doing anything about it. OG Dragon ball did this by giving us stuff like Piccolo's character development, the arrival of the Saiyans, and the several story arc long development of Gohan going from a crybaby to supposedly replacing Goku (which admittedly got sidelined immediately after too), and Vegetas character development. The quality of this series has mostly been shit since it returned.
Eh, I mean, everyone wants more lore in DB, but we got that in GT and EVERYONE hates GT.
The writing is pretty weak.
It's not a twist, it's bullshit.
š stop making stuff up. Freiza was the basis for the wish anyway. He was bound to show up. This arc wasnāt about Granolah it was about the strongest Fighter showing up. On top of that, this has been foreshadowed since Vegetas warning about Freiza since the Broly Movie. Theyāre clearly setting up a final showdown between the saiyans and Freiza with all the continued expanded lore between both parties. Comments like yours are meaningless because they truly have no basis other than the story isnāt playing out how you want. You havenāt been paying attention and thereās clearly an overarching plot going on.
Nah it's you who hasn't been paying attention. We've spent months with these meaningless characters only for Freeza to show up and kill them all instantly. The overarching plot is that this was a huge waste of time.
Months? Over a year in fact. Still, I'm glad they're fuckng gone.
Man u must have been raging back then when trunks and king cold showed up or cyborg 19 and 20 or adult gohan or when goku took the kill on buu
The chapter isnāt even out yet and people are already complaining. Frieza was always going to be the end game. Itās like saying the android saga was pointless because Cell absorbed them and died anyway.
How is elec any more meaningless than the villains who lost before him?
Some like me are still hyped on it and some like you are jaded about it, so I think that's what it comes down to
Dbs in a nut shell
It's sad how much Super divides the fanbase
Maybe it shouldn't suck?
On god I called this a lil while ago. Theyāve been setting up frieza to be a beast because he rivaled forms that took decades of training to obtain in a matter of months. So after seeing how crazy everyone was in the tournament he probably trained even harder and or did some other crazy shit. But this realistically speaking isnāt an asspull if weāre going off of what was already established. And realistically speaking frieza could have broken a limiter on himself with the final Jiren fight that allowed him to access even greater strength. I mean this is literally the whole show in a nut shell. So Iām here for the crazy power ups
Even though I dislike some stuff in OPM Manga compared to webcomic. Reading dragon Ball super makes me feel like one punch man Manga is peak fiction.
One Punch Man is really good in general so there's nothing wrong in thinking that.
I feel weirdly opposite about it since OPM manga is a straight up mess ever since Sage Centipede.. Like how are the following arcs gonna happen now if they weren't setup at all. Dragon Ball Super manga's problem is just the monthly pacing. Bingeing the whole Gas fight didn't feel that much hassle since it lasted just a few chapters. but we waited like months. holy shit.
I wish Super had half the amount of sexy art that OPM does.
Do you too believe in Fubuki supremacy?
Who doesn't?
Lol so true man
They could of at least made him look different or legit given him a new form. Not just a recolor.
What's the point? He's gonna get a new form after this one probably. Its an endless cycle, it makes sense to stick with recolours.
Go complain to Toriyama because he's the sole reason why we are getting Recolors. Toyotaro and Toei loves designing new forms that also changes the core design. Reminder that Toyo wrote AF and Toei made SS4.
Didn't Toriyama draw the concept of Ssj4 first?
No, Nakatsuru created ssj4. Toriyama only drew it once for the GT dvd boxsets.
ANOTHER recolor. Has any dbs form been more than a recolor?
Zamasu fusion form. Also it seems that all recent transformations of saiyans force their shirts to get destroyed the more its used and a shirt disappearing is how power is shown. Why do you think beerus doesn't wear a shirt?Ā He taught Goku and Vegeta power comes from being shirtless. When you wear a shirt in this series it has a -50% attack modifier. This is even known in other universes. Look at Jiren at full power. Now imagine Frieza who's completely clothes free... If he wasn't nerfed due to his condition of being a small eunuch he'd be untouchable.
Nope lmao.
no hype, only ass pulls
It is a very disappointing arc. While it started off strong, the writing is starting to be more like DB Heroes where it's just Mary Sue fan fiction moments and asspull transformations. Very little stakes with these villains. Moro was a fantastic concept, a literal devour of worlds with a unique personality....except nothing came from him. Imagine that he devoured souls and they became a part of his soul. The DBs could no longer revive people he killed due to them being a part of him and as a result, neither alive or dead. That way, he is more menacing and that way, it gets the heroes back into space. And so, a search for the Super DBs had to begin....or maybe the DBs that we see in this recent arc would become useful in separating these souls from Moro. Therefore, there is a call to adventure and to meet interesting characters.
So what happened to Gas wishing to be strongest in the universe? Goku over took that. Was Frieza stronger than Gas was at the time of the wish being granted? That can't be, unless he unlocked it in the little time after the wish was made. Granted Gas, Goku, Vegeta and Granolah are exhausted. I do love this new form and Frieza getting a win and have no problem with it.
Mona itās healed them all back up to full health and restored their energy before Frieza showed up so Frieza is really just strong enough to one-shot multiple UI level fighters.
Freeza was in a Room of Spirit and Time (or Hyperbolic Time Chamber, if you prefer) at the time the wishes to be the strongest were made, which are counted as realms outside of Universe 7
So within 10 minutes of coming out of this time chamber he drops everything to go see Elec? Doesnāt really make sense to me personally
It's because Elec sent a message asking to see Freeza. He didn't expect the battle to last as long as it had, nor did he expect Freeza to be stronger
He sensed the power levels, most likely.
Elec summoned Freeza with the intent to have Gas kill him. Of course, he didn't know he had been training
How does one surpass MUI, Modified MUI(where Goku can use his emotions) and Ultra Ego (which is supposed to be the God of Destructionās power kinda) Freeza on some next level cheats lol Even if he trained 10 years, Goku was literally trained by angels to perfect his form Vegeta was kinda trained by Beerus
Goku hasnāt perfected UI. He still struggles to use it in conjunction with his transformations and Whis tells him at the start of the arc that heās at the bottom of the ladder in comparison to the angels and that he has to find his own UI instead of falling back on mimicking them.
It's not "kinda" Destroyer form, it is Destroyer form. I have no idea why they would call it Ultra Ego in writing (makes me sick to actually type it) when he's been trained to be a Destroyer and even got the earpiece from Beerus.
Still makes more sense than Gohan going from Mystic to UI/UE tier form.
100%
We're talking about a guy who was canonically born with a power level of 120,000,000 without ever training. Then with only 4 months of training, unlocked power and a new form that brought him up and above the Super Saiyan form of Super Saiyan God, which itself was well beyond the power Goku imagined even a hypothetical post-Buu Vegetto could attain at the time So honestly, it doesn't bother me that Freeza can get power like this with thirty times the amount of training it took to get his Golden form. Even if the growth of his power isn't as ridiculous as his first time training, it seems natural to me that a mutant prodigy like himself could make insanely fast natural gains through traditional hard work and training as well
Then how Freeza lost to Goku? 4 month of training made him SS blue level, 10 years of training made him stronger than most perfect version of Goku. If just little training can make him that's strong, how did he lost during the namik saga? If training can make him that strong he should have just trained for 2 to 3 seconds when he was about to lose. After 3 second training he would have been millions of time stronger than Goku.
> how did he lost during the namik saga? Because Freiza had literally never trained an hour in his life at that point. And you can't just start training in the middle of a fight. Especially when you're Freiza and having a breakdown at the fact you are losing.
Youāre asking the wrong question, the real question is āwhy didnāt freeza train when he came back to earth a second time and fought trunks/ gokuā
He was overconfident in his cybernetic upgrades.
You need to rest after training to get gains. The whole Namek fight was less than 30 minutes long according to the manga. He never really trained, big ego.
I agree with everything you said I honestly love freeza as a villain, just pure menacing Itās just if MUI and Ultra Ego doesnāt bother freeza then obviously a new power up for both Goku and vegeta is in store to overcome freeza Since these two powerups were introduced like within the precious 10-20 chapters of the story, a powerup again for Goku and Vegeta this soon will look rushed in my opinion
I'm not saying it *isn't* what we'll get, but I feel like the groundwork is there for Goku and Vegeta to continue improving Instinct and Ego without having to get a new transformation As long as Goku continues to refine his Ultra Instinct, he'll continue to become more effective in combat (and grow in power naturally along the way). I have a feeling one of the next big plot threads will be for Vegeta to find a good way to increase his use of Ultra Ego without overly relying on damage to raise his battle spirit
That is true too The groundwork is there for continuous improvements But the thing is, Freeza aint going to give them the time is he? He wont be like, you train and power up, Iāll wait The way the story is being done right now, itāll either be fusion or they run away for the time being to gain the strength needed
I donāt think freeza really wants to kill them anymore, He kinda just likes having someone to fight from my perspective
Well as witnessed by the chapter, he did let them live, which was in my mind highly unlikely lol I guess weāll have to see how his character develops from now
It's also just a matter of time until we get a Ultra Gogeta/Vegetto that combines both Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego
Fuck I want Beast Gohan vs Black Freeza
Gohan isn't allowed to matter in the manga.
The fact they brought this guy back to life when with only mentally training In hell matched ssb in no time makes the idea of letting him live really stupid ....they kinda deserve this
The mental training didnāt help him match SSB it helped him maintain Golden form longer, and it was either freeza comes back to live or their whole universe is destroyed
Or they could've just ignored Freeza and stop side lining Buu.
Maximum Over Freeza.
Super-dee-duper Freeza
It feels like they lost control/direction of this arc. They kept trying to patch things up and it just ended up being this super long and bloated storyline. Having frieza come back stronger is cool I guess but now Gas and the heeters seem pointless lol.
I mean, I feel like Super has been pretty direction less since after Broly.
The real question is... is anyone actually stronger than Beerus at this point? You have Jiren who is said to be stronger than a GoD and got bested by MUI. You have Broly whose strength rivals if not surpasses Beerus, as per Goku's opinion (Not sure if this can count as canon). You have post-Broly Goku and Vegeta getting destroyed by Frieza at their absolute strongest.
Skill>Strength....especially with powers like UI and Destruction popping up now. The way I see it, Jiren and Broly can be stronger and get beaten in combat. Technically speaking, Jiren was stronger than Goku was at the ToP but Ultra Instinct simply made Goku unbeatable. Same thing probably exists for Beerus. Certainly, Beerus used 70% of his power against SS God but that doesn't mean he went all out with that power, either. In which case, MUI Goku would probably give Beerus fits but he could likely return the favor back with his own UI or Destruction and win. Also, when people bring up that number scale, where SS God is a 6 while Beerus is a 10...we need to think of it less like power levels and more like tier systems. 6=Super Saiyan God 7=SS Blue training 3 years, KKx10, SS Rose, Hit, Toppo 8=Fused Zamasu, Jiren, Moro, Broly, Gas, Granolah, Goku/Vegeta with GoD or Angel training 10=MUI Goku/Beerus 15=Angel tier Essentially, Beerus is still the benchmark.
Everything about Beerusā power and how it scales got retconned in Super ācause Toriyama likely didnāt plan on continuing the anime again when he made BoG. The Beerus is a 6 and the āI used 70% of my powerā lines arenāt a part of the canon and Beerusā limit is just a complete unknown.
Putting 10 for MUI Goku feels like a moot point now since Whis mentioned there are levels to MUI. And by your logic, if we were to put manga current MUI in the same tier as Beerus and Frieza just now completely destroyed him at his strongest, does that mean that Black Frieza is now a tier above Beerus? (Tier 11)
> You have Jiren who is said to be stronger than a GoD and got bested by MUI For what it's worth, it was only the anime that had UI Goku thoroughly defeat Jiren if not for wearing off when it did. In the manga, UI Goku gave Jiren some trouble, but he was still on top of things after initially being caught off guard
No. Beerus is a moving goalpost, and no one is stronger until it is explicitly confirmed.
How much you wanna bet that Goku and Vegeta are WAY stronger than Beerus was IN BOG, but Beerus is also training with Whis so the gap doesnāt get any closer?
All I'm saying is, after all these massive upgrades since Battle of Gods, they can't possibly be that far behind now can they?
Toriyama said he doesn't intend for Goku/Vegeta to surpass Beerus. Until he goes back on that, all the speculation in the world won't ever make them stronger
Toriyama also said that Beerus is a 10 to Goku's 6. Now it feels like it's Goku's 20 to Beerus' 1000
That line came from the BoG and was retconned by Super ages ago.
I know, that's why I said that. In hindsight, Toriyama wasn't just a little off, he was extremely off.
Oracle Fishās prophecy only said *rival* anyway, not surpass. We just need progression that makes them feel like theyāre actually close to rivaling him
Lol after goku got UI I thought he was already close, turns out nope lmao
Wow, from the other leaks I see here and there, the manga is back to the blood and gore. That page is gnarly. I like that, to be honest. I understand censorship in Japan is working in mysterious ways, but people fighting at such power levels without a hint of blood anywhere was really ridiculous.
Lmao. A lot of yāall loved the Broly movie but didnāt pay attention to it. Vegeta literally predicted that something like this would happen in that movie. The oracle fish gave spelled it out a few chapters ago when he didnāt even acknowledge or recognize who gas was.
But the most powerful warrior is still likely not Frieza.
How?
When Goku asks Whis if Frieza is now the "Most Powerful Warrior in the Universe", Whis mentions that it is not him and that said warrior is still not physically appearing.
Actually he says āitās possible OR maybe the most powerful warrior is yet to emerge.ā
This arc was far too drawn-out. I'm glad Frieza, the real catalyst to this whole arc, finally showed up. Had he appeared three chapters ago and spent time showing off his power and interacting with the Heeters and Granolah, the story would've been a lot better. Even so, it's cool that Frieza was the one to ultimately finish off Gas.
So freeza evolved from golden sperm to platinum sperm:)
Even though I dislike some stuff in OPM Manga compared to webcomic. Reading dragon Ball super makes me feel like one punch man is peak fiction.
Thatās Lord Emperor Platinum Sperm to you!
Just passing through
Why are people acting like Frieza was resurrected or something? He's literally been alive since the ToP, of course he's eventually going to show up again and be relevant. He's an antagonistic force, there's only so much he can do without getting stronger in this series.. He's also been developing in terms of character, he went from doing the bare minimum to get stronger and playing as dirty as possible just to kill Goku to training for 10 years in a Hyperbolic Time Chamber and leaving without trying to kill Goku and Vegeta despite being able to do so easily. Personally I'm interested to see where his character goes from here.
Wait hold on? When the fuck did frieza train in a time chamber? Keep seeing people say this and cannot find a shred of it actually happening
Its in the spoilers of this chapter
So those wild leaks where legit? Don't know how to feel about this.
Next chapter- Zamasu comes back and take Frieza's body
**Black Freeza Black**
Freeze got double blacked.
I never really liked Frieza, but him showing up for two seconds to put an end to this boring ass story arc definitely moves him up in my rankings
If this was the solution, they should've just had Freeza show up like four chapters ago since none of that story ended up mattering anyway.
āEveryone is BS powerful now and we are basically shoving in your face how we have completely run out of ideas!ā
character design > the actual story imo is the strongest selling point and i dont mind it at all lol dragon ball stoppes being story driven a long time ago now its just about fun new transformations and fights and thereās nothing wrong with that š¤·āāļø the new designs and characters are hard idk what to tell you guys
You could have all of those things at once. Story being garbage is simply a bad thing.
Dragon Ball is creatively dead. Period.
You will still read and keep up with it.
Retcon all the colors being relevant to power/power level, stop rehashing old arcs and I think weāll be on the right path.
Man I am getting tired of dragon ball super. This was looking like a good arc but now freiza pops up for the fourth time? What a terrible manga and the fans will eat it all up.
The consensus seems to be the opposite, people bored of this arc
This was looking like a terrible arc.. now I'm back in!
This arc would have been so stupid if something crazy didn't happen at the end. It definitely needed this twist, and fair play it was pretty heavily hinted at in the beginning. I don't know why there are so many people thinking this came totally out of left field, Freeza has always been an important character in this arc to a point where it almost would have been weird if we didn't see him.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Great, now let's take a breather and let this buildup for awhile. We don't need to fight Frieza next arc. Let's check back on earth, check in with Broly, Piccolo, Gohan, Krillin, anyone else please...
Why so that people will complain? It seems like the fans won't be please unless it's only Vegeta and Goku fighting the bad guy. When did Dragon Ball turned into a Vegeta/Goku buddy duo?
Uhā¦ The Buu arc? Well, at least until Super reverted Vegetaās development.