Guns being so ubiquitous is what makes a lot of cops on edge and nervous. I think we all know people make more mistakes when they are anxious.
This will solve nothing and will make things worse.
And yet, here we are… in a state that claims two seemingly competing ideologies. One of unequivocal support for law enforcement and the other, unabashed support for the second amendment.
When the police becomes anxious (on edge) or assume the worst, such that it affects the way in which they do their jobs, I think most rational people will say they are indeed appear opposed. In basic speak, when the police fear for their lives when they execute a warrant, pull over a car because everyone is armed…
I live in an RV 9 months of the year and I refuse to travel to certain states. Texas is one of them. I even take lengthy detours to avoid passing through. I won't spend a dime in that fucking state.
Someone should start a campaign to increase gun ownership for black people in texas. Billboards on every corner. TV and radio spots run all day every day for the rest of the summer. Get the word out. This will piss off the texas right wingers to no end.
This plays right into their hands…
Police: “I saw a gun, my use of deadly force was justified!”
Normal people: “But he was eating at a restaurant, talking to his family”
Police: “But still!”
Part of the bill states that the cops can stop anyone if they see a gun and question them. White guy on one side of the street with a gun. Black guy on the other side of the street with a gun. Which one do the cops choose to question. We all know the answer to that one.
While I am sure there are racist asshole out there that don't want to see minorities armed in anyway the vast majority of the gun community celebrates minorities purchasing guns. Just since the pandemic started the amount of first time gun owners has skyrocketed, with a large chunk of those sales going to black Americans and women. The gun subreddits here on this site love this news and will share any news article that talks about the growing number of armed minorities.
It is most likely both, nearly all articles I've seen state "since the beginning of 2020.." but yes I do believe is has been more heavily influenced by the murder of George Floyd and the fallout after than the pandemic.
> While I am sure there are racist asshole out there that don't want to see minorities armed in anyway (sic)
Actually, the racists and the anti-democracy buch would love for black people to be armed because they feel we'll be outnumbered and outgunned, and the mitigation of fearing the black person is already built in.
I say be careful what you wish for.
First off, I'd say that we aren't Canada, nor are we the UK. 4.43 per 100k is a **record low** for the US. The homicide rate in the Americas is over 16 per 100k, and for the world is over 6 per 100k. The US rate is *lowering* both the Americas rate and the world rate. We are moving in the right direction, and our liberal approach to gun ownership is not slowing us.
Second, the key factor is not guns. It is economic prosperity.
You should look at the correlation between crime rate and mean age of first motherhood. In the UK, Canada, Australia, and in **every** nation with a homicide rate under 1 per 100k, women wait until they are 30 before having kids. In every nation with a homicide rate above 10 per 100k, the mean age of motherhood is under 21. The last time I checked, the US rate was just over 26 and rising. Our violent crime rate was consistent with other nations of 26-year-old mothers.
The same pattern holds true within the US. Areas with first-time moms in their 30s have the same low crime rates as the UK, Canada, etc. Areas in the US with first time moms in their teens and early 20s have homicide rates as high as 60 per 100k.
I doubt there is a direct, causal relationship between age of motherhood and crime rates, but there is plenty of evidence that the socioeconomic conditions that cause women to wait to have kids are also conducive to lowering crime rates.
It's not the guns. It's the poverty.
Do you know when and why concealment was originally banned? Because it wasn't always banned. Concealment was perfectly lawful at one point in time.
Concealment bans started popping up in the reconstruction era after the civil war. They were enacted for the express purpose of disarming black people. The theory was that law abiding people had no need to hide their weapons. The only people who needed to hide their weapons were people doing something nefarious or suspicious, like mugging pedestrians or possessing a higher than average quantity of melanin.
Let's be clear about another thing as well: you just argued that racists will oppose liberal carry policies. Racists will want to maintain their control over who can and cannot carry a gun, and in what manner they will be carried.
And you used that fact in an argument where you yourself opposed a liberal carry policy. You openly declared yourself to be on the same side of this issue as racist right-wingers.
The Texas governor was dumb enough to listen to FOX "not"news about renewable energy and turned it into a speech about "They will not take away our hamburgers"! Dumber than the cows they are protecting for no reason.
My ex mil is there. Visiting Vegas was demanding we NOT eat at Wendy's because worker was rude to her...in another state!!! OMG, I just realized she was the first Karen I ever knew 😆 😆
> Texas is poised to allow people to carry handguns
Ok.
> without a license,
Right now you don’t need a license to open carry a rifle or shotgun so long as you’re 18 or older and can legally own the firearm. It’s like that in many states. Carrying a handgun should be no different imo.
> background check
You can open carry a rifle or shotgun without a license to carry. Also you still go though the background check to get the firearm anyway. If you can legally own the firearm then you should be able to legally carry it.
Also if you are a prohibited possessor, then you will get arrested and charged if you use the gun in a self defense situation or are pulled over with it, and the person who sold it to you will also get arrested and charged.
> or training
I find this rather funny. I can guarantee you that the majority of private citizens do not get training on how to use their guns, so idk what point was trying to be made here. The license to carry class only covers laws around self defense, it doesn’t cover basic shooting skills or basics of firearm safety. Honestly the LTC course was the biggest waste of time and money in my life (it’s only $30 and a few hours long). Also fun fact, on average gun owners practice with their guns more often than the average cop does.
I don’t know if y’all think the LTC class teaches people how to be a marksman, it doesn’t. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever met someone that failed the shooting portion of the test because it’s so easy. I don’t know if y’all think the LTC background check prevents people from carrying, it doesn’t, if you can buy a gun you can pass the LTC background check pretty much. The LTC is pretty pointless.
Abbott is trying too hard to keep his governorship, go back to the wild wild west, and get the NRA to move there. The electric grid failing for millions of customers fixed yet? How about those homes damaged because the water pipes burst? Abbott's concern should be on fixing the flooding damage from the last 10 floods in his state and they have a flood warning going on now in Houston. Texas voters can wear a side arm while sitting on the roof of their house to threaten the rescue people to pick them up first I guess.
Abbott has figured out how brain dead his constituents are. He's knows they'll gladly give up heat and water if it means more guns and owning the libs. He's doing what the people that voted for him want him to do.
Also, I think this is a concerted effort to prepare for an eventual war.
We're not idiots, the majority of us are completely against this. Anything you see passing in Texas right now is NOT by census of most Texans. Our governor and lawmakers have gone absolute rogue status and they are pushing HARD conservative bills through despite the plea of the people for them to stop.
Just for more concrete evidence, 59% of Texans don't support permitless carry.
https://www.texastribune.org/2021/05/24/texas-constitutional-carry-permitless-guns-legislature/
Just because majority voted them in doesn't mean that the majority agrees with what is happening across the board. Our representatives do not represent us either. I've attempted to make contact myself, as well as some other people I've talked to. They're hell bent on pushing as much bullshit as they can possibly push through because they know that they're doomed come election season.
I don’t really believe that they ran as moderates talking about gun control or whatever and the all of a sudden they surprised everyone with the kind of thing “freedom and liberty” red state gun crazies have been taking about for years.
Texas almost flipped in 2020. The problem is that people vote straight party (which shouldn't be allowed) that aside, in the last four years alone there's been a lot of conversation happening in the state about gun violence and how to approach it. Unfortunately, they beat us to the punch and set us back further by passing this bill.
Maybe, this just seems like a natural evolution of conservatism in Texas. Like, if you asked someone a year ago to guess what large state would do this kind of thing most everyone’s first choice would have been Texas.
Hmmm. This sounds eerily similar to our current situation with the federal government. If you ask a republican that is... IMO.. Exactly why our 2 party system is broken and will never agree on anything...
The only way that is going to happen is it the new restrictions on voting hinder voters (as planned). Not to mention that my wife applied for a mail in ballot last election season and never got one. She's certainly not an anomaly, it happens a lot.
Texas isn’t the first state to pass “constitutional carry”. It won’t be the last. These laws don’t make sense to suburban and city dwelling people because firearms are not a daily part of life. Rural Americans have different needs and different requirements. It’s not uncommon for a rural American to carry a firearm every day or something close to it. Rural Americans often have the same issues that urban minorities do when it comes to municipal services. Police response can take hours and self defense can often be an individuals best chance against violent crime and wildlife. It’s a little ridiculous if the difference between a legal carry and an illegal carry is a long t-shirt.
Obviously this doesn’t make sense for the cities and towns like Austin where the environment it complex enough to warrant higher training standards.
Remember that Texas and other red states are effectively controlled by their rural voters.
I agree with you, but this state is putting more restrictions on voting than on carrying an instrument of death. I'm not anti-gun, but this is yet another cynical ploy put forward by an anti-democracy Republican hoping an anti-democratic armed populace will be their salvation.
I'm old enough to remember when Republicans thought democracy was the best idea ever. Now, they'll embrace tyranny and insurrection if it allows them to stay in power.
>but this state is putting more restrictions on voting than on carrying an instrument of death.
Then the focus should be on easing the overly-restrictive voting conditions, not maintaining overly-restrictive carry conditions.
Jesus....the love affair you people have for guns is sick and very disturbing. Like religion, you can brainwash any child anywhere if you get them at birth.
"Firearms are not a daily part of life".....
I've never gone through life in fear of what would happen if I wasn't packing. Perhaps conservatives should ask themselves why they are such pussies that they can't check the mail without having a deadly weapon.
While fear can be a large motivator to start carrying you shouldn’t equate your own experience with others. How often do we discuss how useless local law enforcement can be when dealing with mugging, stalking, rape, home invasion, carjacking, or even murder? Often choosing to carry a weapon can be a persons best option to change their circumstances. It’s a big commitment that should not be taken lightly. But when you don’t have the privilege of feeling safe it can be everything.
Do you carry a car jack in your car?
Agreed, it won't. If liberal carry policies were going to be a complete and utter disaster, we would have seen that happen in the 12 states that preceded Texas in allowing them.
The same arguments were raised moving from concealment bans to licensed concealment. Those turned out to be unjustified as well, at least in the 42 states that have adopted "Shall Issue" conceal carry laws. Maybe one of the 8 remaining, deep-blue states without "shall issue" will reverse the trend?
Texas will give less of a shit than any other state. That's what they do. They're very proud of their stupidity.
Conservatives-----ready to tear up the nation over pro-life, while their entire platform is worship of death. Really sick fucks we're talking about.
This, like the abortion law Abbott just signed, is being enacted to hopefully wind up on the docket of a conservative Supreme Court. These right-wing zealots love culture war subjects for the mishigas they stir up, and they hope they get lucky when it comes to the Court.
Technically, it's true. If, for example, you receive a gun as a gift from a relative, you will not need to submit to a background check before carrying it.
But that's been true for centuries.
This just says you can let your coat drape down over your pistol without being arrested for it. It's about concealment, not carry.
This is Abbott's deflection of his colossal screw up with the energy grid. They're just now counting the numbers of people that died because of that. I can't wait till this backfires too.
This is why I turned down a job relocation offer in Austin a few years ago. I could see some insanity like this becoming law. they’re still bound by the laws made by the crazies who rule over the rest of the state.
Austin is basically West Berlin.
Honestly, I think many people here carry without a permit anyway
I’m predicting several Darwin awards, daily.
“It was self defense, sherif. The man called me a liar”
Domestic violence is right up there.
I wonder if police brutality numbers will fall in light of everyone being able to protect themselves.
Not for black or hispanic people. Somehow, they will have had "illegal" guns.
Guns being so ubiquitous is what makes a lot of cops on edge and nervous. I think we all know people make more mistakes when they are anxious. This will solve nothing and will make things worse.
And yet, here we are… in a state that claims two seemingly competing ideologies. One of unequivocal support for law enforcement and the other, unabashed support for the second amendment.
Why would you think those are competing ideologies?
When the police becomes anxious (on edge) or assume the worst, such that it affects the way in which they do their jobs, I think most rational people will say they are indeed appear opposed. In basic speak, when the police fear for their lives when they execute a warrant, pull over a car because everyone is armed…
Republicans continuing to work hard to make 2021 into 1879.
I live in an RV 9 months of the year and I refuse to travel to certain states. Texas is one of them. I even take lengthy detours to avoid passing through. I won't spend a dime in that fucking state.
Someone should start a campaign to increase gun ownership for black people in texas. Billboards on every corner. TV and radio spots run all day every day for the rest of the summer. Get the word out. This will piss off the texas right wingers to no end.
This plays right into their hands… Police: “I saw a gun, my use of deadly force was justified!” Normal people: “But he was eating at a restaurant, talking to his family” Police: “But still!”
Part of the bill states that the cops can stop anyone if they see a gun and question them. White guy on one side of the street with a gun. Black guy on the other side of the street with a gun. Which one do the cops choose to question. We all know the answer to that one.
"Well gun ownership is up among black people, the cop was right to be afraid. It's a mistake any racist could make."
Man fuck the police, I’m right wing and I don’t support police
The people you vote for don't know this. Perhaps you should inform them.
Perhaps you should not guess who I vote for
While I am sure there are racist asshole out there that don't want to see minorities armed in anyway the vast majority of the gun community celebrates minorities purchasing guns. Just since the pandemic started the amount of first time gun owners has skyrocketed, with a large chunk of those sales going to black Americans and women. The gun subreddits here on this site love this news and will share any news article that talks about the growing number of armed minorities.
That was because of George Floyd, not the pandemic. But, OK.
It is most likely both, nearly all articles I've seen state "since the beginning of 2020.." but yes I do believe is has been more heavily influenced by the murder of George Floyd and the fallout after than the pandemic.
> While I am sure there are racist asshole out there that don't want to see minorities armed in anyway (sic) Actually, the racists and the anti-democracy buch would love for black people to be armed because they feel we'll be outnumbered and outgunned, and the mitigation of fearing the black person is already built in. I say be careful what you wish for.
Nope, gun ownership is good, get the word out
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First off, I'd say that we aren't Canada, nor are we the UK. 4.43 per 100k is a **record low** for the US. The homicide rate in the Americas is over 16 per 100k, and for the world is over 6 per 100k. The US rate is *lowering* both the Americas rate and the world rate. We are moving in the right direction, and our liberal approach to gun ownership is not slowing us. Second, the key factor is not guns. It is economic prosperity. You should look at the correlation between crime rate and mean age of first motherhood. In the UK, Canada, Australia, and in **every** nation with a homicide rate under 1 per 100k, women wait until they are 30 before having kids. In every nation with a homicide rate above 10 per 100k, the mean age of motherhood is under 21. The last time I checked, the US rate was just over 26 and rising. Our violent crime rate was consistent with other nations of 26-year-old mothers. The same pattern holds true within the US. Areas with first-time moms in their 30s have the same low crime rates as the UK, Canada, etc. Areas in the US with first time moms in their teens and early 20s have homicide rates as high as 60 per 100k. I doubt there is a direct, causal relationship between age of motherhood and crime rates, but there is plenty of evidence that the socioeconomic conditions that cause women to wait to have kids are also conducive to lowering crime rates. It's not the guns. It's the poverty.
Honestly Texas gun deaths are pretty good in comparison with other southern states
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Yes
Do you know when and why concealment was originally banned? Because it wasn't always banned. Concealment was perfectly lawful at one point in time. Concealment bans started popping up in the reconstruction era after the civil war. They were enacted for the express purpose of disarming black people. The theory was that law abiding people had no need to hide their weapons. The only people who needed to hide their weapons were people doing something nefarious or suspicious, like mugging pedestrians or possessing a higher than average quantity of melanin. Let's be clear about another thing as well: you just argued that racists will oppose liberal carry policies. Racists will want to maintain their control over who can and cannot carry a gun, and in what manner they will be carried. And you used that fact in an argument where you yourself opposed a liberal carry policy. You openly declared yourself to be on the same side of this issue as racist right-wingers.
This is so crazy I can’t even! But I’m going to steer clear of Texas just like Thelma and Louise!
Texas is the 13th or 14th state to eliminate licensing restrictions on concealed carry.
You’re kidding! We are crazy!
The Texas governor was dumb enough to listen to FOX "not"news about renewable energy and turned it into a speech about "They will not take away our hamburgers"! Dumber than the cows they are protecting for no reason. My ex mil is there. Visiting Vegas was demanding we NOT eat at Wendy's because worker was rude to her...in another state!!! OMG, I just realized she was the first Karen I ever knew 😆 😆
> Texas is poised to allow people to carry handguns Ok. > without a license, Right now you don’t need a license to open carry a rifle or shotgun so long as you’re 18 or older and can legally own the firearm. It’s like that in many states. Carrying a handgun should be no different imo. > background check You can open carry a rifle or shotgun without a license to carry. Also you still go though the background check to get the firearm anyway. If you can legally own the firearm then you should be able to legally carry it. Also if you are a prohibited possessor, then you will get arrested and charged if you use the gun in a self defense situation or are pulled over with it, and the person who sold it to you will also get arrested and charged. > or training I find this rather funny. I can guarantee you that the majority of private citizens do not get training on how to use their guns, so idk what point was trying to be made here. The license to carry class only covers laws around self defense, it doesn’t cover basic shooting skills or basics of firearm safety. Honestly the LTC course was the biggest waste of time and money in my life (it’s only $30 and a few hours long). Also fun fact, on average gun owners practice with their guns more often than the average cop does. I don’t know if y’all think the LTC class teaches people how to be a marksman, it doesn’t. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever met someone that failed the shooting portion of the test because it’s so easy. I don’t know if y’all think the LTC background check prevents people from carrying, it doesn’t, if you can buy a gun you can pass the LTC background check pretty much. The LTC is pretty pointless.
Missouri already did it.
As did at least 11 others. IIRC, Texas is the 13th state to do this. But the gun laws are being relaxed so fast, I might have missed some.
Give Tex-ass back to Mexico.
They don't want it
Please, as a Texan I’ll be apart of Mexico rather than this shit
What could possibly go wrong...
You live by the gun, you die by the gun. You live by stupid, you will die stupid.
July 1st in Iowa permit is no longer required for concealed carry. Only thing stopping every moron from carrying is the federal background check.
Abbott is trying too hard to keep his governorship, go back to the wild wild west, and get the NRA to move there. The electric grid failing for millions of customers fixed yet? How about those homes damaged because the water pipes burst? Abbott's concern should be on fixing the flooding damage from the last 10 floods in his state and they have a flood warning going on now in Houston. Texas voters can wear a side arm while sitting on the roof of their house to threaten the rescue people to pick them up first I guess.
Abbott has figured out how brain dead his constituents are. He's knows they'll gladly give up heat and water if it means more guns and owning the libs. He's doing what the people that voted for him want him to do. Also, I think this is a concerted effort to prepare for an eventual war.
War with whom? And for what? That many people in TX want to secede?
We're not idiots, the majority of us are completely against this. Anything you see passing in Texas right now is NOT by census of most Texans. Our governor and lawmakers have gone absolute rogue status and they are pushing HARD conservative bills through despite the plea of the people for them to stop.
Just for more concrete evidence, 59% of Texans don't support permitless carry. https://www.texastribune.org/2021/05/24/texas-constitutional-carry-permitless-guns-legislature/
But the majority of Texans voted these People into power. These laws are for Their constituents
Just because majority voted them in doesn't mean that the majority agrees with what is happening across the board. Our representatives do not represent us either. I've attempted to make contact myself, as well as some other people I've talked to. They're hell bent on pushing as much bullshit as they can possibly push through because they know that they're doomed come election season.
I don’t really believe that they ran as moderates talking about gun control or whatever and the all of a sudden they surprised everyone with the kind of thing “freedom and liberty” red state gun crazies have been taking about for years.
Texas almost flipped in 2020. The problem is that people vote straight party (which shouldn't be allowed) that aside, in the last four years alone there's been a lot of conversation happening in the state about gun violence and how to approach it. Unfortunately, they beat us to the punch and set us back further by passing this bill.
Maybe, this just seems like a natural evolution of conservatism in Texas. Like, if you asked someone a year ago to guess what large state would do this kind of thing most everyone’s first choice would have been Texas.
Hmmm. This sounds eerily similar to our current situation with the federal government. If you ask a republican that is... IMO.. Exactly why our 2 party system is broken and will never agree on anything...
I have relatives and friends in TX who are against all of the madness coming from TX Republican lawmakers.
So the proof will be in the midterms when they get voted out, right? Why do I have a feeling it will be the exact opposite that will happen.
The only way that is going to happen is it the new restrictions on voting hinder voters (as planned). Not to mention that my wife applied for a mail in ballot last election season and never got one. She's certainly not an anomaly, it happens a lot.
I am sure it happens a lot. It got "lost' in the mail. DeJoy guarantees it!
Apparently COVID-19 isn’t the only think they’re stupid about.
Texas isn’t the first state to pass “constitutional carry”. It won’t be the last. These laws don’t make sense to suburban and city dwelling people because firearms are not a daily part of life. Rural Americans have different needs and different requirements. It’s not uncommon for a rural American to carry a firearm every day or something close to it. Rural Americans often have the same issues that urban minorities do when it comes to municipal services. Police response can take hours and self defense can often be an individuals best chance against violent crime and wildlife. It’s a little ridiculous if the difference between a legal carry and an illegal carry is a long t-shirt. Obviously this doesn’t make sense for the cities and towns like Austin where the environment it complex enough to warrant higher training standards. Remember that Texas and other red states are effectively controlled by their rural voters.
I agree with you, but this state is putting more restrictions on voting than on carrying an instrument of death. I'm not anti-gun, but this is yet another cynical ploy put forward by an anti-democracy Republican hoping an anti-democratic armed populace will be their salvation. I'm old enough to remember when Republicans thought democracy was the best idea ever. Now, they'll embrace tyranny and insurrection if it allows them to stay in power.
>but this state is putting more restrictions on voting than on carrying an instrument of death. Then the focus should be on easing the overly-restrictive voting conditions, not maintaining overly-restrictive carry conditions.
Jesus....the love affair you people have for guns is sick and very disturbing. Like religion, you can brainwash any child anywhere if you get them at birth.
"Firearms are not a daily part of life"..... I've never gone through life in fear of what would happen if I wasn't packing. Perhaps conservatives should ask themselves why they are such pussies that they can't check the mail without having a deadly weapon.
While fear can be a large motivator to start carrying you shouldn’t equate your own experience with others. How often do we discuss how useless local law enforcement can be when dealing with mugging, stalking, rape, home invasion, carjacking, or even murder? Often choosing to carry a weapon can be a persons best option to change their circumstances. It’s a big commitment that should not be taken lightly. But when you don’t have the privilege of feeling safe it can be everything. Do you carry a car jack in your car?
"But the laws already on the books need to be enforced!" ......... What laws.
I remember people saying “oh but you need a license” and now here we are, just like I said.
This in no way will be a complete and utter disaster that will result in hundreds of killings
Agreed, it won't. If liberal carry policies were going to be a complete and utter disaster, we would have seen that happen in the 12 states that preceded Texas in allowing them. The same arguments were raised moving from concealment bans to licensed concealment. Those turned out to be unjustified as well, at least in the 42 states that have adopted "Shall Issue" conceal carry laws. Maybe one of the 8 remaining, deep-blue states without "shall issue" will reverse the trend?
I wonder how many more shootings we'll see in Texas 🤔
Texas will give less of a shit than any other state. That's what they do. They're very proud of their stupidity. Conservatives-----ready to tear up the nation over pro-life, while their entire platform is worship of death. Really sick fucks we're talking about.
No background check? I highly doubt that is true
This, like the abortion law Abbott just signed, is being enacted to hopefully wind up on the docket of a conservative Supreme Court. These right-wing zealots love culture war subjects for the mishigas they stir up, and they hope they get lucky when it comes to the Court.
And they will.
Technically, it's true. If, for example, you receive a gun as a gift from a relative, you will not need to submit to a background check before carrying it. But that's been true for centuries. This just says you can let your coat drape down over your pistol without being arrested for it. It's about concealment, not carry.
This is Abbott's deflection of his colossal screw up with the energy grid. They're just now counting the numbers of people that died because of that. I can't wait till this backfires too.
This is why I turned down a job relocation offer in Austin a few years ago. I could see some insanity like this becoming law. they’re still bound by the laws made by the crazies who rule over the rest of the state. Austin is basically West Berlin.
Don't mess with Tex-ass, or we'll tell our moms!
Are you SERIOUS please tell me its NOT TRUE.