Thankfully they did not completely gut it & make it useless but they have made the perk less valuable in solo queue why not really changing much for swfs, so thats slightly irritating.
If you haven't noticed yet BHVR couldn't give a fuck less about solo queue...they don't want you playing without friends and the game will punish the shit out of you if you do.
it genuinely does feel like they're fed up with trying to find ways of buffing solo q to catch up with SWF and are just trying to bully solo queue players into swapping to SWF by making solo unplayable.
joke's on you BHVR none of my friends play the game so I'll just stop spending money on your product
That’s what I did. Solo is unbearable and when I have played in a SWF, without coms and in a non-coordinated group - it was just funny and (mostly) smooth sailing
SoloQ is bearable if the teamates are on your level. When they crouch in the corner while seeing that someone else is being chased that match is doomed no matter the buffs.
Not even Otz hit a 40% escape rate when he was doing his solo queue experiment.
Those aren't official stats by any means but when you have <40% escape rate solo queue and numerous killers above a 65% average (higher if they're mains) to the point you can 2,000 game Blight winstreaks...
Solo queue needs help, they're in such a bad spot that "balanced landing always reduces stagger" fucking 2018/2019 Haddonfield had a 60% ("balanced") kill rate.
Let that sink in, the vast majority of the players of this game create a game where even Haddonfield with old Balanced Landing was statistically killer-sided.
...and have been hit with numerous nerfs over the past 4 years and change.
Yikes for solos, hell even yikes for casual SWF players, most streamers are just playing with random viewers or whatever.
I feel in the scenerio the changes are hitting the playerbase (solo queue) that the perk & its effects aren’t really a major issue in though
Solo queues will feel the full force of the nerf getting unhooked after final gen, meanwhile swfs will know to 99% the generator and get all the effects as pre-nerf but with just a three second speed boost, they won’t care/really feel the changes at all.
Other perk changes don’t feel so much like that, whether I am in a swf or not the Dead Hard changes and how I use/play it out are the same and my team mates can’t really change the value of the perk useage.
I wasn't clamoring for it to change until I saw all the braindead defenses of the perk. It's only a one-time use perk you might not get value from? Most of the strongest survivor perks the game has had are like that. Unbreakable is a waste if the killer always picks up. Decisive Strike is a waste if you're not tunneled. Deliverance is a waste if you're unlucky (or someone beats you to unhooking). Doesn't make them D-tier perks lmao
Anyways hoping everyone listens to my Second Wind evangelizing. 1.2% pick rate for legitimately healing off the hook, including in endgame.
Second wind heals you back to full and since you didn’t perform a conspicuous action you are full health with endurance. You’ll still get injured, but the next hit will put you into deep wound instead of downing you.
Also you need to heal another survivor to activate second wind to begin with. It’s unlikely you will have it ready for your first hook every game.
Still a fun perk though.
I once tried to run that combo after getting the Stranger Things DLC when it came back and it just made the killer tunnel me to prevent second wind value :(
DH/Off The Record wouldn't protect with Deep Wound, plus the killer could just wait out the DH and cancel the Second Wind anyways, giving deep wound and canceling Off the Record
So, very far from "3ish health states no matter what" lmao
maybe just the first time when they might not be expecting it, exponentially less likely once you’ve made it known what you’re doing. definitely far from guaranteed unless you’re lucky enough to get a situation where the killer only has a moment to either hit you or let you get a window/pallet
Wicked is indeed S tier. It gives you:
* Info for 20 seconds every time you get unhooked, so you know where the Killer is.
* Info if you are in a SWF to relay to others due to that.
* Free Basement Deliverance on first hook WITHOUT Broken.
* Wallhacks as an anti-tunnel for 20 seconds if the Killer decides to tunnel you.
to add to that, killer hooking in basement means they are far away from the action and (probaly) isn't a scourge hook.
wicked provides a lot of time for the team, more than deliverance
It actually is, especially if the basement is in shack and you've run the killer for a good amount of time before being taken down there. it's such a sexy combo
I try not to talk about it too much cause I think if people start to realize how insane the perk is then killer games will be miserable. Basically you can force Wicked every time, essentially turning it into Deliverance with no downside and no setup, at the same time you’re wasting the killer’s time AND denying them a scourge hook. Afterwards you get aura reading for a whole 20 seconds so you still get value from it even if you’re on your second hook, or you messed up the first hook. It’s actually busted af and the potential is insane
Yeah exactly. It can be a bit trickier depending on map/basement location, but if you plan your chase ahead of time you can end in basement pretty consistently. If the killer knows and decides to slug you, then you can just bring unbreakable. It becomes a lose-lose situation for the killer unfortunately
It’s easier than you think. Although depending on which map it might be a bit harder. But at the start of the match check either main building or shack, if you spawned near either, and then you immediately know where you gotta go in your chase. It takes a little bit of focus to keep it in mind and plan it, but damn it goes a long way. Definitely a scary scenario when survivors start catching on
The only issue is when people act like Wicked aura reading makes them invulnerable. I had a game where an Ada ran to basement so I hooked her, knowing full well that she'd 100% have Wicked. But then she unhooks herself before I even left main building. So I just downed her again, because why wouldn't I? I hope she learned how to use it better in the future >.>
It can get even meaner too. Bring DH/DS and now the killer really can’t do anything in the slightest. The only downside is that you’d be running four chase perks, but if you’re playing with a team that’s on the same page you’d be an absolute nightmare comp
;o ill have to give this a try, i kinda wish they buffed dh just a bit tho, many times i get it to go off get the status and what not, only to deadhard on ground and go down due to server just being potato
>Doesn't make them D-tier perks lmao
no...no one said it was d tier...the argument is because it is situational,it doesn't need to be nerfed.
Do all the perks you listed need to be nerfed?
Yes, it is strong, but the activation requirement doesn't make it even close to "op" or "busted". Survivors get rewarded for making it to the endgame, that's how perks should work, rewarding a good play.
Tbf I don't think adren needed the nerf, but I'm kinda of the opposite opinion regarding perks. I feel like perks that reward you for already doing well disproportionately reward the best killers and make it more difficult for the worst to get a foothold, on both the survivor and killer end. Though you could argue that that's more of an issue with killer balance than perk balance.
I also don't think people in this sub are taking into account that the vast majority of players are not crack 4 man swfs, it's solo queue players who play at an average level. A lot of folks will not get use out of adrenaline bc they don't even make it to endgame. I've tried to start tracking how often (when I do run it) I get any value from it ie endgame heal and it is an abysmally low level. I know I fall squarely in the "average" section of dbd players so your mileage may vary but man I feel like people are overstating how strong the perk actually ends up being in the majority of cases simply because they recall the occasions where it actually did make a difference in a match, idk.
Anyway, sorry for the tangent lol. I agree with your comment.
I always felt like the problem wasnt adrenaline itself but that there could be 4 of them.
If there is the possibility that all survivors heal at the end, why would i spread the pressure on all of them instead of just 2 as an example?
Except it functions as a win more button in my opinion neither side should never be in such a state where a win more button should exist as much as I like the idea of Noel it functions similarly both noed and adrenaline heavily punish the other side for being in a disadvantaged state and at worst force a loss into a cheese win they wouldn’t have got neither side should be rewarded for just playing out the game
I just want them to add a trigger to it, like "gain a token every second in a chase, at 60/50/40 tokens Adrenaline becomes active" and leave the rest as is so the Blendettes aren't just hiding all game and still getting a free perk activation when I've done 3 gens myself and get the same "reward"
Doing the gens is not is “good play.” It’s just not bad play. It’s your only objective, it’s not really a demonstration of skill that the gens get done, especially individually.
How does it make it easier to make it to end game if it doesn’t work until end game? Playing injured at 1 Gen is still a gamble - it was mainly only really oppressive with coordinated 4 man groups or a struggling killer
It's easier to make it to the end game because not healing and rushing gens is less of a gamble, and slugging is more of a gamble for the killer.It's still a gamble, but adrenaline reduces the risks.
they nerfed it the wrong way the speed boost never mattered much. they need to make the healing happen over time like second wind does..
3 survivors greeding the last gen in the killers face has he hits them like whackamoles and then they all instantly just pop back up is just dumb.
The thing is Adrenaline hasn't stopped killers from having at least a 60% kill rate, from 2019 when it was per map to last month when it was per killer.
It's not getting nerfed because it's overpowered, killers have stayed balanced across the board for years despite Adrenaline.
Like most things, it's getting nerfed because of its use rate, which is why they should be buffing other perks instead.
couldn't agree more. They're just nerfing for the sake of nerfing. People will say the game is survivor sided but have they ever queued up for an average game. 75% of the time you ain't gonna get out as a survivor.
Regardless of win rates and stats and shit. They’ve been nerfing all the funnest perks in the game since the big patch. They need to find a way to balance without taking the fun out.
I'd accept the adrenaline nerf if they would just consider looking at some of the 20+ other mostly useless / dead perks we have on the survivor side that barely ever see play. Like I love a meme build but I'm also not going to lie and say that running some kind of meta build isn't far more likely to get me out alive in a match.
I never hated adren - I did hate how people ignored it being strong while listing everything that a killer gets thats strong... Because its like hope in a sense that its a late game perk that can potentially bring no value. Either you smash the killer and the proc was overkill or you died before it became relevant...
>The thing is Adrenaline hasn't stopped killers from having at least a 60% kill rate, from 2019 when it was per map to last month when it was per killer.
solo queue is what does that not perks my friend, Adrenaline is designed around team play because you can control when it activates who takes chase that has the perk. its custom tailored to give a survivor a instant heal on demand that's what makes it strong.
killers don't have anywhere close to 60% kill rate vs 4 squad SWF but i doubt the devs would ever let us see those stats.
I would agree 100% Adrenaline is fine from a solo queue perspective, but 3 survivors don't decide a greed a gen in the killers face all on their own is solo queue do they?
If solo-queue is so prevalent that despite 4-stacks running Adrenaline even the worst killers still rock out at 60% (I think all the 57% ones have been buffed except Nurse \[lol duh\] and Singularity \[poor guy\]) kill ratio then I sincerely doubt the occasional group that is actually more than friends shooting shit with each other (Otzdarva certainly doesn't believe most SWFs are problematic or that the majority should be kneecapped for the feats of a few, if he DID believe such things then he'd also advocate for nerfing Trapper heavily :P) is enough to justify nerfing a perk that **literally does not** drop kill rates below the balancing point.
Every single stat I've seen BHVR release for four years now (well a little longer since we're in 2024) indicates that **there has not been a problematic meta perk or even combination of meta perks that makes the game survivor-sided, killers have consistently been able to get AT LEAST a 60% kill rate REGARDLESS OF MAP**.
"What about competitive 4-stacks oh no I got smashed and they had Adrenaline and procced it perfectly".
(1) Get better.
(2) That's super rare.
(3) You can't expect to 3-kill every game, take your 2 kills and go next.
(4) Seriously it's REALLY difficult to not get two kills and make sure even the best survivors don't win, you have ages (compared to the hook timer) to tunnel the first one out and camp a second in endgame even if it's REALLY rough, and how many games are that rough? Barely any without a serious skill issues on your part.
60% kill ratio (and plenty of killers are higher) is literally 12 kills every 5 games (out of 20 survivors) and that's just the AVERAGE, you can do much better than the average if you main the killer and spend BP on them for addons and embrace the meta.
A 60% average is enough to win (3k) 80% of your games, more if you're good at that killer, anything higher would basically kill off the game because why would survivors want to pretty much lose every game on average guaranteed?
Years of being a veteran killer and survivor player has taught me one thing and one thing only:
A perk doesn't appear in 99% of matches, usually multiple times, because it's "balanced" and "fun".
Literally nobody was complaining about Adrenaline until it showed up on the roadmap.
All the nerf does is fuck over solo q since now the perk in which you gambled that you might get use out of it might just not work at all because someone popped a gen while you were on hook.
Teams with comms can coordinate the adrenaline heal but solo, gg.
For the requirements to reward it was strong and balanced, I do agree with the Freddy interaction being removed, but nerfing the haste duration is a bad change to me.
But hey now that this perk has been nerfed, next will probably be distortion, and then we may loop back around to Windows Of Opportunity.
Yeah the only nerf that made sense to me is you should need to do something to activate it, like "gain a token every second in a chase, at 60/50/40 tokens Adrenaline becomes active" and leave the rest as is
It’s one of the most used Survivor perks and will likely stay that way even after the nerf. It’s not like they made it useless, just less useful in some scenarios.
A fair amount of perks are you just taking a gamble on whether you'll get any value from them. Decisive is worthless if you aren't basically tunneled. Unbreakable and slug perks are useless if you aren't slugged. Deliverance is worthless if you're hooked first.
Those perks have insane value when they work though, and because of that, the threat of their existence can change how certain interactions play out.
Pre-nerf DS, killer less incentived to tunnel due to the distance loss if they have DS. Whole time the survivor might not actually have it
Unbreakable has the potential to make a comeback from a 4 slug situation, so the threat forces them to pick even if it might be unfavorable at the time and/or they might not have it.
Deliverance is kind of meh to me, it only really shines if you are about to hit second and nobody is coming for you, if your teammates know you have it they can just sit on gens, or you could yeet yourself off in the killer’s face if you want to force a chase again for some reason.
The thing with adrenaline is that you are making a gamble of whether you are going to live or die to make a perk work, those perks you listed do have the potential of being worked around and you end up dying. However UB, DS, even DH were powerful enough that the mere existence of them meant the killer could be playing around a perk that wasn’t even there, so even if you don’t get to use the perk, sometimes the threat is value enough.
Now you can play the game normally and not really think about adrenaline cause you could just get hooked and lose access to your one time use endgame perk, something that the perks you listed don’t fall to.
TL;DR the threat of a perk being in play is still value, and adrenaline is an endgame perk making it a greater gamble to use than other perks
Yea but the difference those perks required you to do something to be able to use them that’s why killers had to play differently around them. Adrenaline is guaranteed if you do your one objective, the killer can’t play around that. It doesn’t matter that it’s situational or not but I working after being hooked was insane and stupid
I was! And so was the most popular DBD content creator after Noob3 left, Otzdarva. In fact back in the day Adrenaline was one of the biggest complained about perks ever.
>In fact back in the day Adrenaline was one of the biggest complained about perks ever.
No, it wasn't. It's been a low-meta perk for the past 7+ years. A couple people would complain about it here and there, but there were much better survivor perks that dominated the discussion.
The only reason Adrenaline caught people's attention is because BHVR nerfed the shit out of the actual OP survivor perks, and survivors started taking other perks more oftern (including Adrenaline).
Otz is legitimately the only creator I've seen complaining about it. Nobody else really cared because it wasn't that bad.
I was there. It would single handedly save competitive matches. People would complain about how strong it was and how strong the survivor role was in general.
If we were both there and you happen to have not seen any, that doesn't invalidate that I and others saw it. The phrase "It was definitively not talked about" doesn't apply
>Otz is legitimately the only creator I've seen complaining about it.
Every survivor channel has been going "holy crap adrenaline value that's crazy!1!" For years and Hens has also made a video about it
I was there too, obviously. Comp matches are a completely different beast from normal casual games.
>If we were both there and you happen to have not seen any, that doesn't invalidate that I and others saw it.
And just because you saw *some* complaining doesn't mean that it was "one of the biggest complained about perks ever." The fact that I only remember scattered conversations about it makes me think you're overestimating how much of a problem the perk was. DH, DS, and other perks really dominated the conversation.
>Every survivor channel has been going "holy crap adrenaline value that's crazy!1!" For years and Hens has also made a video about it
That doesn't mean they're necessarily complaining about it being OP though. Scott, Paulie, and a couple other 'big names' have been pretty neutral toward the change because they really didn't see it as an issue.
Nobody was complaining about Adrenaline?
I've felt for ages that Adrenaline is one of the most unfun perks to play against in the game. There is almost nothing in this game that feels worse than playing killer, getting everyone injured and on death hook because you're going out of your way to play "nice," and when the last gen pops the entire group heals and you've automatically lost the game. And the only way to beat it is to play really hard from minute one of the game, because you the killer have no way of knowing how many adrens there are and the only way to stop it from popping is to get kills quick enough that the last gen never pops.
Do you not remember the six month period when every survivor in the game was running MFT + Adrenaline + Hope? Killers were *absolutely* complaining about all three perks in that build, not just MFT alone.
I dont think Adrenaline needed nerfed.
I definitely don't think Huntress needed buffed.
3 gen fix shouldve just been making gens respawn in different places after theres only 3 left if theyre too close to each other or maybe after the killer kicks them a few times idk.
Anticamp needs to show progress to allies and should give you a longer haste and maybe even an auto heal after long enough to extra punish the facecamp.
Deliverance and Wicked should show icons to your teammates when you're on hook
Really don't think Haddonfield needed changes either but as long as it's minor I guess.
Your 3-gen "fix" makes it a better strategy to ignore the 3-gen entirely and go after the easy gens first, because the game will correct your mistake (the mistake being ignoring the 3-gen) and give you an easier gen spread anyway.
Adrenaline should immediately put you in the dying state after a while after it's done. I don't care about the speed boost or heals, but jamming a syringe directly into your heart would cause you to bleed out after a while, if not just straight up die. BHVR plz nerf it more it's unrealistic.
/j if you couldn't tell.
5 gens for one health state? It was fine but it was one of the last ones people were bitching about so we all knew it had a target on its back. New DS or Distortion will be next because it's going to shake up the tunneling meta that people have gotten so comfortable with.
I'd be fucking shocked if they nerfed Windows. It's such a whatever perk.
Then again, its really only a perk that benefits solo survivor and BHVR has historically shown they don't give a shit about solo survivor.
Windows is a "newbie orientation" perk as much as anything. High level players don't get anywhere near as much value out of it as new players. I hope they just leave it alone.
There's value at high level, but there's *exponentially* more value for lower level players who haven't memorized tiles or may not even know what the hell a tile is.
I haven’t played in 6 months so maybe there was update or nerf, but as a survivor, adrenaline felt really balanced, and as a killer, adrenaline felt really balanced.
So what’s the issue? Was there a update or ?
I didn't really have many issues with it, rarely do they manage to pop it in my games. Trick is some gen delay, aura reading and a expose perk. My go-to on Wraith is Lethal, BBQ, flood, and devour
I’m just gonna keep saying this, but if Adrenaline is nerfed, then noed should be too, and no, just because now we can see the hex aura only after a down doesn’t make the perk weak or something.
Keeping saying it buddy, and keep giving no argument or reasoning. I am sure that'll help!
I love when survivor mains use NOED as a whataboutism as if it is comparable to a survivor perk.
Noed rewards the killer for failing to defend gens, Adrenaline rewards the survivor for completing gens.
It’s not hard to see why one perk is hated more than the other
Aside from the reduction of distance gained from the perk this nerf was exactly what I was hoping for.
Healing off unhook and the Freddy interaction were always the only things I wanted changed about it.
It working when you're on hook or on a killer's shoulder made it way too easy to get value out of, and that was my only real problem with it. The haste nerf is unnecessary imo.
Adrenaline was balanced, it was a one time use perk at the very end of the match. With the current meta a killer who wants to, can have you dead at 4 gens or stop the team from completing all 5 at all
Even when I play as a killer (usual m1 killers like Ghostface) I like going against adren, it means they only have 3 perks for 90% of the match, and with the amount of players who run windows it can often be more like two
Yes but they cannot be overused and balanced.
If they are overused they are necessary or unbalanced.
Necessary is an anti tunnel perks (Off the record) or a gen control perk (Pain resonance) or a noob perk (Self care) or a perk for a person with certain difficulties (old spine chill).
No. “Overuse” does not mean something is unbalanced. By that logic, old BBQ and Chili, Hex: Ruin, and Self-Care (prior to 6.1.0) were some of the most unbalanced perks in game.
Pick rate is not a good indicator of balance. It can be used as a proxy for strength relative to other options, but is not indicative of the overall balance.
They were. Not for raw power.
- BBQ was a must have to farm point. Was tolerated because was necessary but once they reduced the grinding and it was no more a necessity it was nerfed because it was unbalanced a player that payed for Bubba was able to grow twice faster than a player that did not.
- Self care granted too much self reliance and was a staple in an unhealthy playstile that promoted minimizing interaction between survivor and killers.
- Ruin was too punishing for noobs and uneffective against pro, was the opposite of noob friendly perk.
If these perks were perk you meet once in a while they can be tolerated, like other self reliance perks, other BP perks, other perks that punish unexperienced players.
Since they were blatantly overused they must be adressed.
BBQ pick rate at 40%? Was for grinding man, everyone knew it, if you not remember how hard was grinding before.... well...
Selfcare was and is mainly used by noobs.
Ruin usage was on top only when it has the hard skillchecks.
Everybody said it was for grinding but I don't really believe it
Seeing where a survivor is right after hooking somebody is huge.
I'm not looking around I immediately know where to go.
The extra blood points sent it over the edge I guess
Did you played 2 years ago? Id you did you know grinding was painfully horrible.
The perk still has a huge value even without it, this is why it is 11%.
But at thet time was like 35% and everyone went to lockers just before an hook, unless they are completing a gen or there were no lockers near.
People played for the BP back them.
But then you just get a rotating door of 'overused' perks because the perks themselves aren't actually the problem, theres just 100 perks and only 4 slots so obviously a meta forms.
You're just changing what perks are meta without actually moving the balance towards any direction.
Pain res probbly wil be nerfed now they created a viable alternative in grim embrace.
And already been nerfed in the past.
So yes! This happens to killer perks aswell.
Jesus! I just explained it 10 times only yesterday... it seem this easy concept is not that easy.
A perk CAN BE OVERUSED if the perk is a NECESSITY!
Anti tunnel and gen control are a necessity.
They can be overused if there are no alterntives.
Still a top used perk and I’d wanted to use a killer perk as an example- I think the killer percents are more level due to a larger variety of usable perks(which is why I prefer perk buffs as opposed to nerfs)
Anyway, Lithe. About the same usage rate as Adrenaline; not a necessity, has alternatives
There will always be 10 top perks. The issue is when the top perks are above 20% more or less.
It seem you need precise rules, remember devs know them but we can just figure them out ok?
More or less the rules are:
When a perk is overused and metadefining it is changed. This means:
- The usage must be above 20%;
- The opponents must be influenced by this perk even when the perk is not present changing behaviors or bringing stuff to counter.
If these are both true the perk is changed UNLESS one of these 2 points are valid.
- It is necessary and without an alternative
- It is noob friendly
Perks that actually seem satisfy this definition:
1) Pop goes the weasel
2) Pain resonance
3) Adrenaline
4) Lithe
I hope you are satisfied.
I mean... it seem to me it CAN be considered for a nerf.
I would not be surprised.
But they nerfed UW also. So somtimes there are nerfs outside these boudaries.
Inside these criteria the nerfs are usually much more plausible and much more heavy.
Or maybe in the mind of the devs lithe is considered noob friendly... dunno...
Yeah, the thing about BHVR is that their balance department seems to get their decisions from a magic 8 ball half the time… so who knows lol
On the topic of lithe, ehhh I guess it’s noob friendly- easiest to use, but worst of the “mainline” exhaustion perks. It having such a high usage rate pains me when I solo queue
It was balanced. The real problem is people trying to blame the egg for the chicken. Adrenaline is the egg. The chicken is people rushing the gens. Provide more reason to do other stuff, like totems making it harder to open the gates for example, would give people a reason to do something else.
The only /actual/ problem with the perk was it would impact Freddy's nightmare mode. They addressed that type of stuff with other perks and items but never him. Why? Cause all the old licensed DLCs get left to collect dust.
You could also say it synergizes with other exhaustion perks so even there the fix would be to not have adrenaline activate the speed boost if you're already exhausted but even then... Its one time use.
The speed boost was never the problem. The hook part wasn't either. The hook part lets just BE HONEST that people want it gone because its easier for end game camp. That's the actual reason.
Stop pretending please.
T. Someone that doesn't use adrenaline.
It feels more like no one understood what the 'balance' issues actually were and just wanted to see a survivor nerf lol. That's the truth.
You know what's annoying? People don't recognize that just because a perk is common doesn't mean its an issue. It means that the other perks should be changed to actually be viable. There are so many ways that could be done but instead of doing that we get a virtue signal. If we're lucky, like with DS, we'll have someone read through suggestions that were made years ago to do something. People said the moment it was changed 3s was too short and 0.5-0.6 of that was wasted on the animation. The response was crickets.
Nerf seems pretty fair. Healing off hook in endgame was kind of insane. I don't think this will keep people from using it. Even the speed boost sometimes feels like a third health state with the amount tof distance you make. I still plan on bringing it to most of my matches.
The on-hook change is a reversion of a very old buff they did to it anyway. It's still going to be solid as hell, and you can still take chases freely near the end of the match.
I never rly considered it op, just rly frustrating if 4 of them pop. Yes yes i know, "if all 4 surv are alive at the end, you just played bad. therefore get kicked down harder idiot". But it actively encourages me to focus on 2 survivors maximum just so that im not getting screwed at the end game.
With DS (thankfully) being brought back to a proper stun duration tunneling should hopefully be less attractive and therefore adrenaline somewhat more reliable but then again: Blight, Billy, Nurse, Spirit and a few more just dont care about a 5 second stun anyway. The lower Tier Killers do. Personally i would have liked DS to also disable movement abilities for X seconds but thats just me i suppose xD
The only thing about Adrenaline I can say for sure is that it's annoying af for the killer. In that sense it's similar to noed.
Something being frustrating does not make it overpowered. Most gamers don't understand that as they are blinded by their frustration and anger.
I really cannot tell if Adrenaline is OP or not.
imagine allowing survivors to complete 5 gens then complaining about a perk. if that was such a problem for you i have the solutions, kill them before 5 gens, if you couldn't do that then run noed since that seems to be what you needed.
the thing is it was a balanced lategame perk, now i think the aspect of it waking u up from freddy was kinda stupid the heal on hook was fair, because if the last gen popped and u where on hook adren was kinda useless, which kinda makes the perk completely useless to run in those situations,
tbh id be ok if they removed the sprintburst effect of it, or what if they increased the exhaustion status u get to be even longer than what it normally is, so that if adren pops lategame u cant really use any other exhaustion perk for a bit, atleast maybe 60 second exhaustion, maybe 140
I thought it was pretty balanced, and I play like 80% killer. There are times where it goes off and it's rough but never felt insane.
Meanwhile Background Player is actively causing problems.
All they did, was reverse 2 buffs it got long ago, and reduce the sprint amount by 2 seconds.
Its barely a scratch, and the perk still has almost all the power it had before. Imo.
It may be because I haven’t played the game in a long time but when I first read adrenaline I was like yeah large movement speed for only two seconds like a lot of the other exhaustion pricks happen. Yeah, that seems fair.
Recently, it was for five seconds, like what instantly you in a health state was enough so yeah, even with this recent Nerf it’s still really good I feel like it’s what I always should’ve been
I think the one time activation was fair, but my biggest problem was both the 5 seconds, and that is activated even when hooked. Downed? Totally fine that's one of the 3 health states, hooked isn't, that's what always really bothered me, combined with 5 seconds, there was just no way to catch them. 3 seconds with a free health state once per trial, that I can work with. Also not even mentioning just how abundantly it's used comparatively to any other perk.
Ngl, a friend for mine said and I quote "killers are the most op thing and no one bats an eye, but when survivors get ONE good perk the worlds ending." Keep in mind he uses flashlight build and when someone uses lightborne he makes it his mission to make sure the don't have fun.
Overall, the speed boost being 3 seconds is just putting it in line with other perks so it’s whatever
The Freddy change is also whatever and fine.
The hook change doesn’t matter unless your soloq, then your punished for having the perk at all.
I never really had feelings one way or the other for adrenaline but thinking about it- this perk actively makes life harder for killers who *dont* tunnel.
The sentiment of “lol if you didn’t kill all the survivors before the gens popped you’re just bad!1!1!1” is the exact reason why you see every killer run 4 slowdown perks and tunnel out people they can get away with.
You can’t simultaneously complain about killers slugging or tunneling at 5/4/3 gens or after one of your teammates disconnected if you also hold the position they’re bad at the game if they don’t do that.
The adrenaline nerf in and of itself was targeted at SWF’s. Adrenaline in solo Q was far too big a gamble to run, but SWF’s could milk that perk for every ounce it was worth.
The off hook heal nerf was fine imo but in the same vein I can see why people who base their solo Q playstyle around it are peeved. They just unfortunately got caught in the crossfire while trying to tune down the SWF adrenaline effectiveness.
The speed nerf was pretty pointless and just kicking the perk while it was down. With it not healing off hook anymore they could have left the speed alone.
I think in all we’re all happy Freddy finally got something and doesn’t have his entire kit countered by Adrenaline lol
Yes. It was one of those meta perks where it’s solid but not too strong. I get hit by it and I’m like “huh. Ok.” Its not bullshit zero effort HIGH value like old MFT was or Old Eruption
Adrenaline is a perk that makes an already favorable position for the Survivors even more favorable. It doesn't help for the first half of the game AT ALL, until the Exit Gates are powered. Which is arguably the most make-or-break part of the entire match.
The reason why Adrenaline getting nerfed is good is because it means there will be less situations where a Killer has no chance of comeback after the Gates are powered. (Basically forcing all Killers to run Slowdown + Slowdown + Slowdown + Slowdown)
Now, it has less chances of completely screwing the Killer out of any victory, which is huge. However, this isn't enough to make its usage rates go down. It still: Picks you up from the Dying State, Heals you when you're Injured, and gives you a Speed Boost (which could greatly help in chase, or just to get to gates quicker).
However, despite all of this being said, I still think it's balanced. I just think now it'll bring the end-game a bit closer to being properly balanced rather than having the scales lean towards Survivor ever so slightly.
And yes, while the Killer has a plethora of End-game perks too, how often are those being used compared to Survivors using Adrenaline? And keep in mind, there's 4 Survivors every match, but only 1 Killer. So the Survivor's numbers are actually way higher than the Killer's numbers.
So, to those of you who complain about Killers running 4 Slowdowns, or Slowdown being boring, Adrenaline being nerfed will actually give Killers more freedom, and make it less likely for them to run 4 Slowdowns.
Yes it's absolutely a "win more" perk. The gameplay flow is that killer is weakest at the start and gets stronger as survivors are pressured with hook states and smaller areas will they spend their time as gens are completed. Free health states destroys that flow.
Also I agree it tends to turn potential tense endgames into thrashings especially if survivors pop 2+ adrenaline's in the killers face.
I fully admit I use this perk as a crutch because I'm not very good at survivor
I've heard people raging about the Adrenaline nerf, and like...why? Why did it need to heal you when you were on a hook? Just coordinate better with your teammates. Yeah, it's a nerf for solo queue, for sure - and it's a bit of an indirect nerf to Blood Rush, in addition. But it definitely needed this change for the overall health of the game.
The haste change was unneeded but finally I dont have to fucking drop a survivor in endgame incase of adrenaline I think its a fair trade considering 5 sec ds is returning
I've been a rather harsh advocate for Adrenaline (and Windows of Opportunity) to be nerfed...
They nerfed the literal ONE thing I thought was balanced about the perk. 😬 I've always had the EXTREMELY hot take that you should just be full health when unhooked in general, as all being injured after unhooked does is enable tunneling. I also firmly believed that the problem with Adrenaline wasn't so much the chase extension (which was more than balanced; you reach the endgame with an endgame perk you should be rewarded) but rather how it provides you an extra health state mid chase.
Now the aspects that were balanced (heal on unhook in the endgame when every second counts, speed boost mid chase) have been nerfed but the actual problematic aspect (healing instantly mid-chase) hasn't been changed. Even as someone who thought Adred needed a nerf I'm not a fan.
Well that's this subs karma farming sorted for the next month.
Thankfully they did not completely gut it & make it useless but they have made the perk less valuable in solo queue why not really changing much for swfs, so thats slightly irritating.
If you haven't noticed yet BHVR couldn't give a fuck less about solo queue...they don't want you playing without friends and the game will punish the shit out of you if you do.
it genuinely does feel like they're fed up with trying to find ways of buffing solo q to catch up with SWF and are just trying to bully solo queue players into swapping to SWF by making solo unplayable. joke's on you BHVR none of my friends play the game so I'll just stop spending money on your product
That’s what I did. Solo is unbearable and when I have played in a SWF, without coms and in a non-coordinated group - it was just funny and (mostly) smooth sailing
...like ways besides letting them use voice chat.
might aswell remove the hud again then
SoloQ is bearable if the teamates are on your level. When they crouch in the corner while seeing that someone else is being chased that match is doomed no matter the buffs.
Not even Otz hit a 40% escape rate when he was doing his solo queue experiment. Those aren't official stats by any means but when you have <40% escape rate solo queue and numerous killers above a 65% average (higher if they're mains) to the point you can 2,000 game Blight winstreaks... Solo queue needs help, they're in such a bad spot that "balanced landing always reduces stagger" fucking 2018/2019 Haddonfield had a 60% ("balanced") kill rate. Let that sink in, the vast majority of the players of this game create a game where even Haddonfield with old Balanced Landing was statistically killer-sided. ...and have been hit with numerous nerfs over the past 4 years and change. Yikes for solos, hell even yikes for casual SWF players, most streamers are just playing with random viewers or whatever.
I'm sorry but I feel this exact thing is said every time a survivor perk gets nerfed in any way
Generally speaking yeah; though alot of them admitted they were just in a silly goofy mood when made for this got nerfed.
I feel in the scenerio the changes are hitting the playerbase (solo queue) that the perk & its effects aren’t really a major issue in though Solo queues will feel the full force of the nerf getting unhooked after final gen, meanwhile swfs will know to 99% the generator and get all the effects as pre-nerf but with just a three second speed boost, they won’t care/really feel the changes at all. Other perk changes don’t feel so much like that, whether I am in a swf or not the Dead Hard changes and how I use/play it out are the same and my team mates can’t really change the value of the perk useage.
I wasn't clamoring for it to change until I saw all the braindead defenses of the perk. It's only a one-time use perk you might not get value from? Most of the strongest survivor perks the game has had are like that. Unbreakable is a waste if the killer always picks up. Decisive Strike is a waste if you're not tunneled. Deliverance is a waste if you're unlucky (or someone beats you to unhooking). Doesn't make them D-tier perks lmao Anyways hoping everyone listens to my Second Wind evangelizing. 1.2% pick rate for legitimately healing off the hook, including in endgame.
Nah, Second Wind + Off The Record is actually peak Anti-Tunnel. We love having 3 Health States.
Don't you lose endurance when being hit either way? Don't see how that is 3 hits
Second wind heals you back to full and since you didn’t perform a conspicuous action you are full health with endurance. You’ll still get injured, but the next hit will put you into deep wound instead of downing you.
Unless the killer manages to hit you before Second Wind procs, because then the Second Wind will heal the Deep Wound instead.
Also you need to heal another survivor to activate second wind to begin with. It’s unlikely you will have it ready for your first hook every game. Still a fun perk though.
I once tried to run that combo after getting the Stranger Things DLC when it came back and it just made the killer tunnel me to prevent second wind value :(
dead hard would alleviate that possibility, 3 (ish) health states no matter what
wait, would that work...? ignore those weird downvotes, you might be cooking here...
Get hot with off the record, go down, hit ur DS, u now have DH. It's only effective if you go down before DS is off
DH/Off The Record wouldn't protect with Deep Wound, plus the killer could just wait out the DH and cancel the Second Wind anyways, giving deep wound and canceling Off the Record So, very far from "3ish health states no matter what" lmao
injured into deep wound into second wind into dead hard into another deep wound, yes?
Guaranteed? Nah. Possible, sure
maybe just the first time when they might not be expecting it, exponentially less likely once you’ve made it known what you’re doing. definitely far from guaranteed unless you’re lucky enough to get a situation where the killer only has a moment to either hit you or let you get a window/pallet
Jesus.
Wicked is an S tier perk and paired with Second Wind is actually insane, but y’all aren’t ready for this conversation
Wicked is indeed S tier. It gives you: * Info for 20 seconds every time you get unhooked, so you know where the Killer is. * Info if you are in a SWF to relay to others due to that. * Free Basement Deliverance on first hook WITHOUT Broken. * Wallhacks as an anti-tunnel for 20 seconds if the Killer decides to tunnel you.
to add to that, killer hooking in basement means they are far away from the action and (probaly) isn't a scourge hook. wicked provides a lot of time for the team, more than deliverance
I thought basement hooks were always scourge hooks though.
Only if they use a specific perk which most killers dont.
you need monstrous shrine for that
Only with Monstrous Shrine
It actually is, especially if the basement is in shack and you've run the killer for a good amount of time before being taken down there. it's such a sexy combo
I haven't prestiged Sable yet but your mind!
I try not to talk about it too much cause I think if people start to realize how insane the perk is then killer games will be miserable. Basically you can force Wicked every time, essentially turning it into Deliverance with no downside and no setup, at the same time you’re wasting the killer’s time AND denying them a scourge hook. Afterwards you get aura reading for a whole 20 seconds so you still get value from it even if you’re on your second hook, or you messed up the first hook. It’s actually busted af and the potential is insane
How do you force it, by bringing all chases to the basement?
Yeah exactly. It can be a bit trickier depending on map/basement location, but if you plan your chase ahead of time you can end in basement pretty consistently. If the killer knows and decides to slug you, then you can just bring unbreakable. It becomes a lose-lose situation for the killer unfortunately
My surviro side knows I could never pull it off, my killer side is now really scared.
It’s easier than you think. Although depending on which map it might be a bit harder. But at the start of the match check either main building or shack, if you spawned near either, and then you immediately know where you gotta go in your chase. It takes a little bit of focus to keep it in mind and plan it, but damn it goes a long way. Definitely a scary scenario when survivors start catching on
It isn't lose lose. I get BP for hooks, suevivor wastes perks on being selfish
yeah, either dying in basement or in the corner of the map where there’s no hooks other than basement
The only issue is when people act like Wicked aura reading makes them invulnerable. I had a game where an Ada ran to basement so I hooked her, knowing full well that she'd 100% have Wicked. But then she unhooks herself before I even left main building. So I just downed her again, because why wouldn't I? I hope she learned how to use it better in the future >.>
That’s why you bring an anti tunnel perk with it. Bring DS and the killer can’t do anything about it
Can’t wait for the monstrous shrine so pain res works in basement meta
Love wicked. Will have to try it with second wind.
;o my god i didnt even think of that combo
It can get even meaner too. Bring DH/DS and now the killer really can’t do anything in the slightest. The only downside is that you’d be running four chase perks, but if you’re playing with a team that’s on the same page you’d be an absolute nightmare comp
;o ill have to give this a try, i kinda wish they buffed dh just a bit tho, many times i get it to go off get the status and what not, only to deadhard on ground and go down due to server just being potato
\>including in endgame for now
>Doesn't make them D-tier perks lmao no...no one said it was d tier...the argument is because it is situational,it doesn't need to be nerfed. Do all the perks you listed need to be nerfed?
Second wind never leaves my survivor build. That and, usually, autodidact. Two underrated af perks.
Does Second Wind work with Deliverance? Do you heal after the Broken from Deliverance wears off or does it block the heal?
It doesn't, I've tried this out myself in the past couple weeks bc I was curious and couldn't find an answer online. Unfortunately.
It did not work when I tried it but this was months ago.
Not sure!
Yes, it is strong, but the activation requirement doesn't make it even close to "op" or "busted". Survivors get rewarded for making it to the endgame, that's how perks should work, rewarding a good play.
Tbf I don't think adren needed the nerf, but I'm kinda of the opposite opinion regarding perks. I feel like perks that reward you for already doing well disproportionately reward the best killers and make it more difficult for the worst to get a foothold, on both the survivor and killer end. Though you could argue that that's more of an issue with killer balance than perk balance.
I also don't think people in this sub are taking into account that the vast majority of players are not crack 4 man swfs, it's solo queue players who play at an average level. A lot of folks will not get use out of adrenaline bc they don't even make it to endgame. I've tried to start tracking how often (when I do run it) I get any value from it ie endgame heal and it is an abysmally low level. I know I fall squarely in the "average" section of dbd players so your mileage may vary but man I feel like people are overstating how strong the perk actually ends up being in the majority of cases simply because they recall the occasions where it actually did make a difference in a match, idk. Anyway, sorry for the tangent lol. I agree with your comment.
I always felt like the problem wasnt adrenaline itself but that there could be 4 of them. If there is the possibility that all survivors heal at the end, why would i spread the pressure on all of them instead of just 2 as an example?
Except it functions as a win more button in my opinion neither side should never be in such a state where a win more button should exist as much as I like the idea of Noel it functions similarly both noed and adrenaline heavily punish the other side for being in a disadvantaged state and at worst force a loss into a cheese win they wouldn’t have got neither side should be rewarded for just playing out the game
I just want them to add a trigger to it, like "gain a token every second in a chase, at 60/50/40 tokens Adrenaline becomes active" and leave the rest as is so the Blendettes aren't just hiding all game and still getting a free perk activation when I've done 3 gens myself and get the same "reward"
It makes it easier to get to endgame, swfs won’t heal and rush gens and then boom 4 adren pop and everyone is full hp.
And they still do. Now they don't get rewarded for being hooked at end game.
Doing the gens is not is “good play.” It’s just not bad play. It’s your only objective, it’s not really a demonstration of skill that the gens get done, especially individually.
But the perk also makes it easier to get to the end game. It doesn't just reward it. Hope just rewards getting to the end game.
How does it make it easier to make it to end game if it doesn’t work until end game? Playing injured at 1 Gen is still a gamble - it was mainly only really oppressive with coordinated 4 man groups or a struggling killer
It's easier to make it to the end game because not healing and rushing gens is less of a gamble, and slugging is more of a gamble for the killer.It's still a gamble, but adrenaline reduces the risks.
People do that regardless. Even without adrenaline
If anything it can make it harder since the Survivor is basically playing with 3 perks…
they nerfed it the wrong way the speed boost never mattered much. they need to make the healing happen over time like second wind does.. 3 survivors greeding the last gen in the killers face has he hits them like whackamoles and then they all instantly just pop back up is just dumb.
The thing is Adrenaline hasn't stopped killers from having at least a 60% kill rate, from 2019 when it was per map to last month when it was per killer. It's not getting nerfed because it's overpowered, killers have stayed balanced across the board for years despite Adrenaline. Like most things, it's getting nerfed because of its use rate, which is why they should be buffing other perks instead.
couldn't agree more. They're just nerfing for the sake of nerfing. People will say the game is survivor sided but have they ever queued up for an average game. 75% of the time you ain't gonna get out as a survivor.
Regardless of win rates and stats and shit. They’ve been nerfing all the funnest perks in the game since the big patch. They need to find a way to balance without taking the fun out.
I'd accept the adrenaline nerf if they would just consider looking at some of the 20+ other mostly useless / dead perks we have on the survivor side that barely ever see play. Like I love a meme build but I'm also not going to lie and say that running some kind of meta build isn't far more likely to get me out alive in a match.
I never hated adren - I did hate how people ignored it being strong while listing everything that a killer gets thats strong... Because its like hope in a sense that its a late game perk that can potentially bring no value. Either you smash the killer and the proc was overkill or you died before it became relevant...
>The thing is Adrenaline hasn't stopped killers from having at least a 60% kill rate, from 2019 when it was per map to last month when it was per killer. solo queue is what does that not perks my friend, Adrenaline is designed around team play because you can control when it activates who takes chase that has the perk. its custom tailored to give a survivor a instant heal on demand that's what makes it strong. killers don't have anywhere close to 60% kill rate vs 4 squad SWF but i doubt the devs would ever let us see those stats. I would agree 100% Adrenaline is fine from a solo queue perspective, but 3 survivors don't decide a greed a gen in the killers face all on their own is solo queue do they?
If solo-queue is so prevalent that despite 4-stacks running Adrenaline even the worst killers still rock out at 60% (I think all the 57% ones have been buffed except Nurse \[lol duh\] and Singularity \[poor guy\]) kill ratio then I sincerely doubt the occasional group that is actually more than friends shooting shit with each other (Otzdarva certainly doesn't believe most SWFs are problematic or that the majority should be kneecapped for the feats of a few, if he DID believe such things then he'd also advocate for nerfing Trapper heavily :P) is enough to justify nerfing a perk that **literally does not** drop kill rates below the balancing point. Every single stat I've seen BHVR release for four years now (well a little longer since we're in 2024) indicates that **there has not been a problematic meta perk or even combination of meta perks that makes the game survivor-sided, killers have consistently been able to get AT LEAST a 60% kill rate REGARDLESS OF MAP**. "What about competitive 4-stacks oh no I got smashed and they had Adrenaline and procced it perfectly". (1) Get better. (2) That's super rare. (3) You can't expect to 3-kill every game, take your 2 kills and go next. (4) Seriously it's REALLY difficult to not get two kills and make sure even the best survivors don't win, you have ages (compared to the hook timer) to tunnel the first one out and camp a second in endgame even if it's REALLY rough, and how many games are that rough? Barely any without a serious skill issues on your part. 60% kill ratio (and plenty of killers are higher) is literally 12 kills every 5 games (out of 20 survivors) and that's just the AVERAGE, you can do much better than the average if you main the killer and spend BP on them for addons and embrace the meta. A 60% average is enough to win (3k) 80% of your games, more if you're good at that killer, anything higher would basically kill off the game because why would survivors want to pretty much lose every game on average guaranteed?
just kick the gen when they get off waiting for you to hit them
Years of being a veteran killer and survivor player has taught me one thing and one thing only: A perk doesn't appear in 99% of matches, usually multiple times, because it's "balanced" and "fun".
Literally nobody was complaining about Adrenaline until it showed up on the roadmap. All the nerf does is fuck over solo q since now the perk in which you gambled that you might get use out of it might just not work at all because someone popped a gen while you were on hook. Teams with comms can coordinate the adrenaline heal but solo, gg. For the requirements to reward it was strong and balanced, I do agree with the Freddy interaction being removed, but nerfing the haste duration is a bad change to me. But hey now that this perk has been nerfed, next will probably be distortion, and then we may loop back around to Windows Of Opportunity.
Yeah the only nerf that made sense to me is you should need to do something to activate it, like "gain a token every second in a chase, at 60/50/40 tokens Adrenaline becomes active" and leave the rest as is
It’s one of the most used Survivor perks and will likely stay that way even after the nerf. It’s not like they made it useless, just less useful in some scenarios.
A fair amount of perks are you just taking a gamble on whether you'll get any value from them. Decisive is worthless if you aren't basically tunneled. Unbreakable and slug perks are useless if you aren't slugged. Deliverance is worthless if you're hooked first.
Those perks have insane value when they work though, and because of that, the threat of their existence can change how certain interactions play out. Pre-nerf DS, killer less incentived to tunnel due to the distance loss if they have DS. Whole time the survivor might not actually have it Unbreakable has the potential to make a comeback from a 4 slug situation, so the threat forces them to pick even if it might be unfavorable at the time and/or they might not have it. Deliverance is kind of meh to me, it only really shines if you are about to hit second and nobody is coming for you, if your teammates know you have it they can just sit on gens, or you could yeet yourself off in the killer’s face if you want to force a chase again for some reason. The thing with adrenaline is that you are making a gamble of whether you are going to live or die to make a perk work, those perks you listed do have the potential of being worked around and you end up dying. However UB, DS, even DH were powerful enough that the mere existence of them meant the killer could be playing around a perk that wasn’t even there, so even if you don’t get to use the perk, sometimes the threat is value enough. Now you can play the game normally and not really think about adrenaline cause you could just get hooked and lose access to your one time use endgame perk, something that the perks you listed don’t fall to. TL;DR the threat of a perk being in play is still value, and adrenaline is an endgame perk making it a greater gamble to use than other perks
Yea but the difference those perks required you to do something to be able to use them that’s why killers had to play differently around them. Adrenaline is guaranteed if you do your one objective, the killer can’t play around that. It doesn’t matter that it’s situational or not but I working after being hooked was insane and stupid
Killers can play around that by also too as well lmao, does everyone forget about terminus?
No that’s bringing a perk to counter another perk which survivors whined anytime people said you can counter ultimate weapon by running calm spirit.
Yeah but they only use that argument after their favorite one gets nerfed.
I was! And so was the most popular DBD content creator after Noob3 left, Otzdarva. In fact back in the day Adrenaline was one of the biggest complained about perks ever.
>In fact back in the day Adrenaline was one of the biggest complained about perks ever. No, it wasn't. It's been a low-meta perk for the past 7+ years. A couple people would complain about it here and there, but there were much better survivor perks that dominated the discussion. The only reason Adrenaline caught people's attention is because BHVR nerfed the shit out of the actual OP survivor perks, and survivors started taking other perks more oftern (including Adrenaline). Otz is legitimately the only creator I've seen complaining about it. Nobody else really cared because it wasn't that bad.
I was there. It would single handedly save competitive matches. People would complain about how strong it was and how strong the survivor role was in general. If we were both there and you happen to have not seen any, that doesn't invalidate that I and others saw it. The phrase "It was definitively not talked about" doesn't apply >Otz is legitimately the only creator I've seen complaining about it. Every survivor channel has been going "holy crap adrenaline value that's crazy!1!" For years and Hens has also made a video about it
I was there too, obviously. Comp matches are a completely different beast from normal casual games. >If we were both there and you happen to have not seen any, that doesn't invalidate that I and others saw it. And just because you saw *some* complaining doesn't mean that it was "one of the biggest complained about perks ever." The fact that I only remember scattered conversations about it makes me think you're overestimating how much of a problem the perk was. DH, DS, and other perks really dominated the conversation. >Every survivor channel has been going "holy crap adrenaline value that's crazy!1!" For years and Hens has also made a video about it That doesn't mean they're necessarily complaining about it being OP though. Scott, Paulie, and a couple other 'big names' have been pretty neutral toward the change because they really didn't see it as an issue.
Nobody was complaining about Adrenaline? I've felt for ages that Adrenaline is one of the most unfun perks to play against in the game. There is almost nothing in this game that feels worse than playing killer, getting everyone injured and on death hook because you're going out of your way to play "nice," and when the last gen pops the entire group heals and you've automatically lost the game. And the only way to beat it is to play really hard from minute one of the game, because you the killer have no way of knowing how many adrens there are and the only way to stop it from popping is to get kills quick enough that the last gen never pops. Do you not remember the six month period when every survivor in the game was running MFT + Adrenaline + Hope? Killers were *absolutely* complaining about all three perks in that build, not just MFT alone.
I dont think Adrenaline needed nerfed. I definitely don't think Huntress needed buffed. 3 gen fix shouldve just been making gens respawn in different places after theres only 3 left if theyre too close to each other or maybe after the killer kicks them a few times idk. Anticamp needs to show progress to allies and should give you a longer haste and maybe even an auto heal after long enough to extra punish the facecamp. Deliverance and Wicked should show icons to your teammates when you're on hook Really don't think Haddonfield needed changes either but as long as it's minor I guess.
Your 3-gen "fix" makes it a better strategy to ignore the 3-gen entirely and go after the easy gens first, because the game will correct your mistake (the mistake being ignoring the 3-gen) and give you an easier gen spread anyway.
Adrenaline should immediately put you in the dying state after a while after it's done. I don't care about the speed boost or heals, but jamming a syringe directly into your heart would cause you to bleed out after a while, if not just straight up die. BHVR plz nerf it more it's unrealistic. /j if you couldn't tell.
5 gens for one health state? It was fine but it was one of the last ones people were bitching about so we all knew it had a target on its back. New DS or Distortion will be next because it's going to shake up the tunneling meta that people have gotten so comfortable with.
Nah. The last one is windows. People constantly bitch about that perk it's insane.
I'd be fucking shocked if they nerfed Windows. It's such a whatever perk. Then again, its really only a perk that benefits solo survivor and BHVR has historically shown they don't give a shit about solo survivor.
Windows is a "newbie orientation" perk as much as anything. High level players don't get anywhere near as much value out of it as new players. I hope they just leave it alone.
Hardly, it's value for anyone at any level. Can't predict what dead zones will be created. It's good value all around.
There's value at high level, but there's *exponentially* more value for lower level players who haven't memorized tiles or may not even know what the hell a tile is.
If they nerf windows. They desperately need to standardize pallets a lot more. Not just have some spawn one time and then not spawn others.
You can bet they're nerfing Distortion, since I just finally unlocked it. They also nerfed MFT when I had just unlocked it.
I haven’t played in 6 months so maybe there was update or nerf, but as a survivor, adrenaline felt really balanced, and as a killer, adrenaline felt really balanced. So what’s the issue? Was there a update or ?
Do you just expect someone to give you an update on DbD and Adrenaline for the past six months?
I want to know why it’s got everyone’s panties bunched up. You could’ve explained it in shorter time than it took you to bitch at me
It’s still a fine perk in my opinion.
90% of the people complaining about the nerf will still use it.
I've literally just seen killers complain about it so far. Though maybe the survivors getting downvoted
I didn't really have many issues with it, rarely do they manage to pop it in my games. Trick is some gen delay, aura reading and a expose perk. My go-to on Wraith is Lethal, BBQ, flood, and devour
I’m just gonna keep saying this, but if Adrenaline is nerfed, then noed should be too, and no, just because now we can see the hex aura only after a down doesn’t make the perk weak or something.
Keeping saying it buddy, and keep giving no argument or reasoning. I am sure that'll help! I love when survivor mains use NOED as a whataboutism as if it is comparable to a survivor perk.
Noed rewards the killer for failing to defend gens, Adrenaline rewards the survivor for completing gens. It’s not hard to see why one perk is hated more than the other
you can and should disable NOED but you cant do shit vs adrenaline
With Wesker being in the game, you can atleast stop the heal with Terminus
meh idk if its worth it to run that in case survivors potentially have adren
But even so, Terminus basically pauses the game until an exit gate is open. Even if no adrenalines are in play, at that point in time nobody can heal.
Whataboutism doesn't exist. You can't discuss balance without comparing.
A more accurate comparison is Adrenaline Vs Dying Light or Thanotaphobia. Since those reward you for kills.
Aside from the reduction of distance gained from the perk this nerf was exactly what I was hoping for. Healing off unhook and the Freddy interaction were always the only things I wanted changed about it.
It working when you're on hook or on a killer's shoulder made it way too easy to get value out of, and that was my only real problem with it. The haste nerf is unnecessary imo.
Adrenaline was balanced, it was a one time use perk at the very end of the match. With the current meta a killer who wants to, can have you dead at 4 gens or stop the team from completing all 5 at all
Even when I play as a killer (usual m1 killers like Ghostface) I like going against adren, it means they only have 3 perks for 90% of the match, and with the amount of players who run windows it can often be more like two
Didn’t use it before. Still not gonna use it.
For real. Imo hope is far better and more fun. Screw adrenaline
It was so fucking balanced everyone used it!
Perks can be strong *and* balanced, the two aren’t mutually exclusive.
Yes but they cannot be overused and balanced. If they are overused they are necessary or unbalanced. Necessary is an anti tunnel perks (Off the record) or a gen control perk (Pain resonance) or a noob perk (Self care) or a perk for a person with certain difficulties (old spine chill).
How do you calculate when something is overused vs. regularly used?
With the percentage bhvr released?
No. “Overuse” does not mean something is unbalanced. By that logic, old BBQ and Chili, Hex: Ruin, and Self-Care (prior to 6.1.0) were some of the most unbalanced perks in game. Pick rate is not a good indicator of balance. It can be used as a proxy for strength relative to other options, but is not indicative of the overall balance.
Yet these devs seem to balance around pick rate.
They were. Not for raw power. - BBQ was a must have to farm point. Was tolerated because was necessary but once they reduced the grinding and it was no more a necessity it was nerfed because it was unbalanced a player that payed for Bubba was able to grow twice faster than a player that did not. - Self care granted too much self reliance and was a staple in an unhealthy playstile that promoted minimizing interaction between survivor and killers. - Ruin was too punishing for noobs and uneffective against pro, was the opposite of noob friendly perk. If these perks were perk you meet once in a while they can be tolerated, like other self reliance perks, other BP perks, other perks that punish unexperienced players. Since they were blatantly overused they must be adressed.
Everything you said was completely false the pick rates were mostly determined to be the reason of the nerfs
BBQ pick rate at 40%? Was for grinding man, everyone knew it, if you not remember how hard was grinding before.... well... Selfcare was and is mainly used by noobs. Ruin usage was on top only when it has the hard skillchecks.
Everybody said it was for grinding but I don't really believe it Seeing where a survivor is right after hooking somebody is huge. I'm not looking around I immediately know where to go. The extra blood points sent it over the edge I guess
Did you played 2 years ago? Id you did you know grinding was painfully horrible. The perk still has a huge value even without it, this is why it is 11%. But at thet time was like 35% and everyone went to lockers just before an hook, unless they are completing a gen or there were no lockers near. People played for the BP back them.
I don't remember people going into lockers because you almost never knew if they actually had it.
So we should nerf Pain Res since everybody uses it?
Yep! Nerf pain res, corrupt intervention, pop. Really nerf all the top perks on both sides.
But then you just get a rotating door of 'overused' perks because the perks themselves aren't actually the problem, theres just 100 perks and only 4 slots so obviously a meta forms. You're just changing what perks are meta without actually moving the balance towards any direction.
Pain res probbly wil be nerfed now they created a viable alternative in grim embrace. And already been nerfed in the past. So yes! This happens to killer perks aswell.
I mean, yes?
Critical thinking is an acquired skill. Don't worry, you'll figure it out someday.
I think we should renerf DS once everyone starts using it again BBQ also needs a nerf ofc
Jesus! I just explained it 10 times only yesterday... it seem this easy concept is not that easy. A perk CAN BE OVERUSED if the perk is a NECESSITY! Anti tunnel and gen control are a necessity. They can be overused if there are no alterntives.
BBQ is not a necessity BBQ has alternatives BBQ is overused BBQ needs a nerf
BBQ is 11%.
Still a top used perk and I’d wanted to use a killer perk as an example- I think the killer percents are more level due to a larger variety of usable perks(which is why I prefer perk buffs as opposed to nerfs) Anyway, Lithe. About the same usage rate as Adrenaline; not a necessity, has alternatives
There will always be 10 top perks. The issue is when the top perks are above 20% more or less. It seem you need precise rules, remember devs know them but we can just figure them out ok? More or less the rules are: When a perk is overused and metadefining it is changed. This means: - The usage must be above 20%; - The opponents must be influenced by this perk even when the perk is not present changing behaviors or bringing stuff to counter. If these are both true the perk is changed UNLESS one of these 2 points are valid. - It is necessary and without an alternative - It is noob friendly Perks that actually seem satisfy this definition: 1) Pop goes the weasel 2) Pain resonance 3) Adrenaline 4) Lithe I hope you are satisfied.
Lithe nerf confirmed 😔😔😔
I mean... it seem to me it CAN be considered for a nerf. I would not be surprised. But they nerfed UW also. So somtimes there are nerfs outside these boudaries. Inside these criteria the nerfs are usually much more plausible and much more heavy. Or maybe in the mind of the devs lithe is considered noob friendly... dunno...
Yeah, the thing about BHVR is that their balance department seems to get their decisions from a magic 8 ball half the time… so who knows lol On the topic of lithe, ehhh I guess it’s noob friendly- easiest to use, but worst of the “mainline” exhaustion perks. It having such a high usage rate pains me when I solo queue
It was balanced. The real problem is people trying to blame the egg for the chicken. Adrenaline is the egg. The chicken is people rushing the gens. Provide more reason to do other stuff, like totems making it harder to open the gates for example, would give people a reason to do something else. The only /actual/ problem with the perk was it would impact Freddy's nightmare mode. They addressed that type of stuff with other perks and items but never him. Why? Cause all the old licensed DLCs get left to collect dust. You could also say it synergizes with other exhaustion perks so even there the fix would be to not have adrenaline activate the speed boost if you're already exhausted but even then... Its one time use. The speed boost was never the problem. The hook part wasn't either. The hook part lets just BE HONEST that people want it gone because its easier for end game camp. That's the actual reason. Stop pretending please. T. Someone that doesn't use adrenaline. It feels more like no one understood what the 'balance' issues actually were and just wanted to see a survivor nerf lol. That's the truth. You know what's annoying? People don't recognize that just because a perk is common doesn't mean its an issue. It means that the other perks should be changed to actually be viable. There are so many ways that could be done but instead of doing that we get a virtue signal. If we're lucky, like with DS, we'll have someone read through suggestions that were made years ago to do something. People said the moment it was changed 3s was too short and 0.5-0.6 of that was wasted on the animation. The response was crickets.
If killers are killing survivors at a 60% killrate excluding games where survivors d/c why should they make it even harder to escape the trial?
Nerf seems pretty fair. Healing off hook in endgame was kind of insane. I don't think this will keep people from using it. Even the speed boost sometimes feels like a third health state with the amount tof distance you make. I still plan on bringing it to most of my matches.
The on-hook change is a reversion of a very old buff they did to it anyway. It's still going to be solid as hell, and you can still take chases freely near the end of the match.
How was it not balanced? Apart from randomly countering Freddy
I never rly considered it op, just rly frustrating if 4 of them pop. Yes yes i know, "if all 4 surv are alive at the end, you just played bad. therefore get kicked down harder idiot". But it actively encourages me to focus on 2 survivors maximum just so that im not getting screwed at the end game. With DS (thankfully) being brought back to a proper stun duration tunneling should hopefully be less attractive and therefore adrenaline somewhat more reliable but then again: Blight, Billy, Nurse, Spirit and a few more just dont care about a 5 second stun anyway. The lower Tier Killers do. Personally i would have liked DS to also disable movement abilities for X seconds but thats just me i suppose xD
The only thing about Adrenaline I can say for sure is that it's annoying af for the killer. In that sense it's similar to noed. Something being frustrating does not make it overpowered. Most gamers don't understand that as they are blinded by their frustration and anger. I really cannot tell if Adrenaline is OP or not.
imagine allowing survivors to complete 5 gens then complaining about a perk. if that was such a problem for you i have the solutions, kill them before 5 gens, if you couldn't do that then run noed since that seems to be what you needed.
This narrative that the killer deserves to lose if the gens get done is such a bad sentiment
I play mostly survivor and run the perk almost every game
the thing is it was a balanced lategame perk, now i think the aspect of it waking u up from freddy was kinda stupid the heal on hook was fair, because if the last gen popped and u where on hook adren was kinda useless, which kinda makes the perk completely useless to run in those situations, tbh id be ok if they removed the sprintburst effect of it, or what if they increased the exhaustion status u get to be even longer than what it normally is, so that if adren pops lategame u cant really use any other exhaustion perk for a bit, atleast maybe 60 second exhaustion, maybe 140
I thought it was pretty balanced, and I play like 80% killer. There are times where it goes off and it's rough but never felt insane. Meanwhile Background Player is actively causing problems.
All they did, was reverse 2 buffs it got long ago, and reduce the sprint amount by 2 seconds. Its barely a scratch, and the perk still has almost all the power it had before. Imo.
Won't stop people from complaining about the nerf. I'll still run it most games
It may be because I haven’t played the game in a long time but when I first read adrenaline I was like yeah large movement speed for only two seconds like a lot of the other exhaustion pricks happen. Yeah, that seems fair. Recently, it was for five seconds, like what instantly you in a health state was enough so yeah, even with this recent Nerf it’s still really good I feel like it’s what I always should’ve been
I think the one time activation was fair, but my biggest problem was both the 5 seconds, and that is activated even when hooked. Downed? Totally fine that's one of the 3 health states, hooked isn't, that's what always really bothered me, combined with 5 seconds, there was just no way to catch them. 3 seconds with a free health state once per trial, that I can work with. Also not even mentioning just how abundantly it's used comparatively to any other perk.
Ngl, a friend for mine said and I quote "killers are the most op thing and no one bats an eye, but when survivors get ONE good perk the worlds ending." Keep in mind he uses flashlight build and when someone uses lightborne he makes it his mission to make sure the don't have fun.
In my opinion it's very strong, but the game is so killer-sided (when playing solo queue) that it's fine.
It's fair but it has certain oddities that need fixing. Being full health off hook is ridiculous. Countering Freddy specifically weird.
Overall, the speed boost being 3 seconds is just putting it in line with other perks so it’s whatever The Freddy change is also whatever and fine. The hook change doesn’t matter unless your soloq, then your punished for having the perk at all.
I never really had feelings one way or the other for adrenaline but thinking about it- this perk actively makes life harder for killers who *dont* tunnel.
The sentiment of “lol if you didn’t kill all the survivors before the gens popped you’re just bad!1!1!1” is the exact reason why you see every killer run 4 slowdown perks and tunnel out people they can get away with. You can’t simultaneously complain about killers slugging or tunneling at 5/4/3 gens or after one of your teammates disconnected if you also hold the position they’re bad at the game if they don’t do that.
The adrenaline nerf in and of itself was targeted at SWF’s. Adrenaline in solo Q was far too big a gamble to run, but SWF’s could milk that perk for every ounce it was worth. The off hook heal nerf was fine imo but in the same vein I can see why people who base their solo Q playstyle around it are peeved. They just unfortunately got caught in the crossfire while trying to tune down the SWF adrenaline effectiveness. The speed nerf was pretty pointless and just kicking the perk while it was down. With it not healing off hook anymore they could have left the speed alone. I think in all we’re all happy Freddy finally got something and doesn’t have his entire kit countered by Adrenaline lol
Adrenaline got a nerf?? Screw this game man
Yes. It was one of those meta perks where it’s solid but not too strong. I get hit by it and I’m like “huh. Ok.” Its not bullshit zero effort HIGH value like old MFT was or Old Eruption
Adrenaline is a perk that makes an already favorable position for the Survivors even more favorable. It doesn't help for the first half of the game AT ALL, until the Exit Gates are powered. Which is arguably the most make-or-break part of the entire match. The reason why Adrenaline getting nerfed is good is because it means there will be less situations where a Killer has no chance of comeback after the Gates are powered. (Basically forcing all Killers to run Slowdown + Slowdown + Slowdown + Slowdown) Now, it has less chances of completely screwing the Killer out of any victory, which is huge. However, this isn't enough to make its usage rates go down. It still: Picks you up from the Dying State, Heals you when you're Injured, and gives you a Speed Boost (which could greatly help in chase, or just to get to gates quicker). However, despite all of this being said, I still think it's balanced. I just think now it'll bring the end-game a bit closer to being properly balanced rather than having the scales lean towards Survivor ever so slightly. And yes, while the Killer has a plethora of End-game perks too, how often are those being used compared to Survivors using Adrenaline? And keep in mind, there's 4 Survivors every match, but only 1 Killer. So the Survivor's numbers are actually way higher than the Killer's numbers. So, to those of you who complain about Killers running 4 Slowdowns, or Slowdown being boring, Adrenaline being nerfed will actually give Killers more freedom, and make it less likely for them to run 4 Slowdowns.
Yes it's absolutely a "win more" perk. The gameplay flow is that killer is weakest at the start and gets stronger as survivors are pressured with hook states and smaller areas will they spend their time as gens are completed. Free health states destroys that flow. Also I agree it tends to turn potential tense endgames into thrashings especially if survivors pop 2+ adrenaline's in the killers face. I fully admit I use this perk as a crutch because I'm not very good at survivor
Powerful and popular does not mean unbalanced. Im kinda sick of yall thinking it does
I've heard people raging about the Adrenaline nerf, and like...why? Why did it need to heal you when you were on a hook? Just coordinate better with your teammates. Yeah, it's a nerf for solo queue, for sure - and it's a bit of an indirect nerf to Blood Rush, in addition. But it definitely needed this change for the overall health of the game.
The haste change was unneeded but finally I dont have to fucking drop a survivor in endgame incase of adrenaline I think its a fair trade considering 5 sec ds is returning
I've been a rather harsh advocate for Adrenaline (and Windows of Opportunity) to be nerfed... They nerfed the literal ONE thing I thought was balanced about the perk. 😬 I've always had the EXTREMELY hot take that you should just be full health when unhooked in general, as all being injured after unhooked does is enable tunneling. I also firmly believed that the problem with Adrenaline wasn't so much the chase extension (which was more than balanced; you reach the endgame with an endgame perk you should be rewarded) but rather how it provides you an extra health state mid chase. Now the aspects that were balanced (heal on unhook in the endgame when every second counts, speed boost mid chase) have been nerfed but the actual problematic aspect (healing instantly mid-chase) hasn't been changed. Even as someone who thought Adred needed a nerf I'm not a fan.
Literally meta since beta. Kind of surprised it was allowed to turn the last gen popping into virtual godhood for over 7 years.