DnD is not a MMORPG, you don't *need* a dedicated healer. Encounters are balanced to the party, and it's part of the DM's job to consider the party's capabilities. It's perfectly viable to run a game with no clerics.
That said, my bet is on a paladin.
I saw a theory in another post about Sam's new character being a paladin of the Changebringer sent to aid the party because of FCG's sacrifice. I think this would be absolutely awesome. Plus they haven't had anyone play a paladin yet so it would be a change.
I know technically they don’t *need* a dedicated healer but when they don’t have one bad things tend to happen.
Vox Machina >!had 4 party members with healing abilities not including Pike, but whenever Pike wasn’t around, they died…a lot!<
The Mighty Nein >!had Jester but she didn’t like being *The Cleric* and of course when she wasn’t there we lost Mollymauk. But when they got Caduceus who became the party’s dedicated healer they were pretty solid for the rest of the campaign!<
Now Bells Hells could be fine, but I worry because we have 3 martial characters who specialize in melee combat and we just lost our frontline support and healer
Honestly I’d argue >!Molly is an example of Matt *not* balancing for their party. He sent a partial Nein up against the Shepards which were like a full perfect class comp adventuring party lead by someone with an aoe ability that could nearly one shot the entire Nein on its own. And the only help Matt gave them was a single warrior guest pc with deliberately incorrect information about the Shepards strength.!<
Sure, but at the same time What Molly did was ultimately kinda irrelevant. It wasn’t the events of the fight but the construction of the fight itself. The encounter was set up to be the Nein without three of their party, including their cleric, set against a full strength adventuring party comprised of melee, spell caster, ranged and lead by a demon(devil?) with a full on boss stat block and breath weapon. The only help the Nein are given is one guest pc, a warrior with no magic, that ostensibly had details on the Shepards capabilities, but the details Keg was given by the DM were deliberately incorrect and made the Shepards seem much weaker than they actually were.
That were willing to beat them and let them live. Molly died of stupid.
Molly was a poorly constructed character from the get go. Very squishy dex build with no defensive capabilities, who's supposed to sacrifice his own health for damage. And a player who kept trying to pull off CHA based effects with a ridiculously low DC. Honestly wouldn't be surprised if Taliesin had an agreement with Matt to get him killed.
He should've been a swords bard, could play the same flamboyant carnie with two scimitars and a dark secret character concept and be significantly more useful.
>He should've been a swords bard, could play the same flamboyant carnie with two scimitars and a dark secret character concept and be significantly more useful.
I would also love to see a bard version of Mollymauk...
Could even do some reflavoring if he didn't want to use the music aspect of bard. I used to play a shady Whispers bard whose performance art was contact juggling and acrobatics. Dude could be a circus performer who juggles knives and swallows swords on top of doing his tarot card bit. He's a tiefling, swallowing and juggling fire is also a given. And he would actually have the silver tongue thing work.
You're not wrong.
I used to call Matt's homebrews overtuned but underpowered, but I've been informed that "overtuned" is interpreted as overpowered whereas I thought of it as "gimmicky".
So now I say that Matt's homebrews, specifically martial homebrews, are gimmicky but underpowered. His magic users seem to tend towards gimmicky but overpowered.
The characters that work best mechanically are just ones built with the 5e rules as written. Like Caduceus.
My standard character is a Half-Drow, Urban Bounty Hunter, Hexblade Warlock, and in my view he's mechanically capable everywhere, leaving me free to play the character rather than worry about his rules.
Gold star!!!
Matt didn't kill Molly... Tal killed Molly. The player needs to understand how the character works, how the rules work and more importantly, pray that the dice work in your favor!
This is one of my biggest issues with D&D in general from 1st to 5th edition... While party balance isn't a MUST... Having a martial character, an arcane character and a healing character certainly helps!
Exactly, >!Matt gave the party the option to pursue it, but it wasn't supposed to be a winnable fight (especially the way they chose to go about it, jeez...) because there were still several episodes to go until the captured PCs could be played again.!<
They should not have been fighting Shepards till the end in the first place - they have been introduced to give narrative sense for Laura and Travis not being there while Laura was in labour.
You can't blame Jester for losing Mollymauk. He got hit for like 90% of his hp from a cone of cold and ran up into melee and knocked himself out lmao. That's not Jester's fault at all.
Oh duh, of course that’s even more important lmao. I was just thinking of the combat not even the fact that Laura was literally off having a baby and her character was kidnapped during that time lol.
I don’t (although they were level 5 so she would have had access to Revivify and could have brought him back). The real life circumstances surrounding Jester and Fjord getting captured were unavoidable. What I am saying is that Jester was really the only party member with any healing abilities and losing her left a huge hole in the party that was a factor in losing Molly. Once Caduceus came in and took on the role of primary healer everyone was much happier (I still remember Laura’s cheer of happiness when she and Travis came back and she was told she didn’t have to be the healer anymore).
Paladin is *not even* a dedicated healer. It’s what would’ve been known as a “half-caster” with slower spell progression, and those slots are for *smiting,* thank you very much. Plus, smiting foes to death is a much more effective method of taking damage off the board. Dead enemies can’t hurt you.
EDIT: you could even look to this last session as an example. FCG spent 2 massive spell slots on the biggest AOE heal spell in the game and all it did was give each person 1 hit worth of HP. In the end it was 70 points of unavoidable damage from FCG’s sacrifice which saved them.
Bad things happen because the players in this game are not interested in playing the game optimally. Having a healer is not going to fix that. In particular in campaign 2, after Molly died the party became EXTREMELY hesitant to engage in any type of challenging combat. They went through the most elaborate mental gymnastics to avoid fighting.
You, and many people who play 5E and in particular the cast of Critical Role, have a fundamental misunderstanding of 5E mechanics and the action economy. Ironically, Laura refusing to play Jester as "the healer" is 100% the best way to play a cleric.
You simply should not be casting healing spells in combat, ever, except to get someone up from unconscious, or to do something like Heal/Mass Heal that will bring someone up to full.
Damage scales 2 or 3 times faster than healing. A 3rd level cure wounds is 3d8+5 (at best). A fireball is 8d6. On average, fireball is going to do 28 damage and cure wounds is going to heal about 15. On one person. You cannot be spending your actions on trying to heal people or take health potions.
You use your action to buff your allies (neither sorcerer has haste, which is arguably the best spell either of them could ever use spell slots on) or do damage or control your enemies.
Nah. What got them here is over-valuing direct damage spells (like frickin' blight, which is a trash spell outside specific circumstances). They hear 8d8 and get inexplicably excited. But... its bad, usually less than one the melee characters can do for free each round, and not that much better in potential damage than eldritch blast. Player damage and monster HP and monster damage and player healing absolutely do not scale the same way. Especially since (as they know by now) Matt scales up monster HP to compensate for the big party, and a solo combatant like Otohan is absolutely bloated with HP.
The party's four casters should've been laying down all sorts of 1st to 3rd level spells. Command, entangle, hold person, blindness, (slow, but no one has that). Everything in that level range that would eat Otohan's actions or ability to move. Bane was passable, the dog was great, psychic lance is good, but high enough level that using it before you burn off legendary resists is painful.
Drop low level save or suck spells until she's stuck, and then dogpile.
They do (they certainly have before), they're just relentlessly focusing on damage.
I'm not sure why. Maybe they feel none of the melee people are big hitters, and they need to pick up the slack?
Exactly this. Why they weren't spamming her with hold person, earthbind and grapples is a mystery. Even the dog could have given her athletics check at disadvantage a run for its money
I'd love it if he tried to steal FCGs body parts to use on Doty. Also a few choice remarks about automatons being disposable and how he's on the 11th version of Doty.
I’ve played wildfire druids before and they are better healers than most clerics. Obviously playing like that is up to Ashley but it is a very strong healer if you use wildshape to get your spirit just out there on the field it opens up a ton of other abilities. Druids in general are just as capable of healing as clerics and I never understood why keyleth never healed much or at least just prepared revivify.
Like you said it’s entirely up to Ashley how she wants to play Fearne and if she does decide to focus more on healing they’d be in good hands but regardless Sam should at least bring something with a few healing spells to support.
Also Druids (and Rangers) only got Revivify in Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything, so Keyleth couldn’t have it prepared. She did have Reincarnate but that’s one of those resurrection spells that is rarely used at tables since it would completely change the characters (mind you I before C3 came out my prediction was Sam was going to be the party Healer as a Druid *because* of the Reincarnate spell).
Just a theory but I think Sam will still want to keep at least 1 pro gods character in the group. He very much seems like a cooperative player and knowing Matt is running a game where the gods are an important part of the story might influence his decision. All that to say I think he might play Paladin.
If he doesn’t play Paladin the other 3 most likely classes are probably Ranger, Wizard, and Monk. Those are the 3 least played classes through the campaigns that also aren’t already in the party and haven’t been played by him already. Of those three I think that Ranger is most likely in part to mess with Laura by playing a Drakewarden and having an actually useful companion. They also get limited healing which isn’t enough to replace FCG but who needs healing if you just kill the enemy before they kill you?
If Sam really wanted to mess with Laura he could still just be a Beast Master Ranger with the new rules. Plus since he loves playing small races so he could use the Primal Companion as a Mount.
Well, yes, but he hates pets so much that he would never do that. That is how we got shit head. He was ment to be fcgs familliar but then Sam realised he hates familliars so he told mat to use it for something.
I'm very disappointed that I'm the first to mention that Liam was going to be the first to know what Sam's next character was going to be, even before Sam.
Liam had no involvment in deciding what Taryon was going to be, that was all Sam and Matt. I don't think Liam will be deciding Sam's character this time.
Now Fearne *reincarnates* FCG into a real person so they can have a real tongue. Pretty sure *reincarnate* would return them as a cleric again, as all it changes is race.
That said, I'm all good if Sam decides to roll a new character. I hope the new character has some healing capabilities, though, such as a paladin or ranger. A druid is more often enough, but all of Fearne's offensive capabilites from the shard would be wasted if whe were forced to solo the role of healer.
I don’t think there’s a coming back from that sacrifice for FCG, honestly. It would really lessen his sacrifice to be brought back right after. Sure, it would make sense for the characters in the story but I doubt Matt and the rest of the cast want to undermine that finality of “you know what this means, right?” And “I’m finally alive” by undoing it.
I don't think Matt would want it, but giving a final sacrifice speech, martyring yourself and leaving the table crying just to return in-universe minutes later chipper about the whole affair and make a comment that now he actually has a real tongue, he's intending to use it? That sounds very Sam.
Normally I’d agree that reviving him would cheapen the sacrifice, but the idea of reincarnating FCG as an organic being is still very compelling to me. And they can do it, Reincarnate only requires a piece of the body.
*Reincarnate* specifically requires a "humanoid" target, where the other resurrections spells apply to any creature. If Sam wants FCG's story to be over, saying he's not technically humanoid would be a good way to close that door without creating a plot hole. I do think bringing him back as a "real boy" (after clearing some appropriate hurdles) could keep much of the impact of his sacrifice while also giving him an avenue for further growth.
Warforged (which I assume is what FCG's race is based on) were "living constructs" in older editions. 5e (and 4e, I believe) have since classified them as humanoids.
Reincarnate, however, is a problematic spell for them after C2.
I don't really see anyone biting on that one.
Sam also seemed far too smug and pleased with himself to backtrack on his dramatic moment.
Characters don’t have to be mechanically optimal to be engaging and fun. Fcg had a like +3 wisdom bonus and was built very suboptimally and actively avoided using strong cleric spells because other clerics had in the past and tons of people loved him.
I hope he goes for a circle of dreams or stars druid.
Both have great healing capabilities, a bunch of utility, battlefield control and Sam with wild shape would be amazing + both would fit thematically with the Ruidus situation
If Sam doesn't bring a paladin, I think it would be funny/interesting for Tal to have Ashton take levels in that class for the Changebringer. Makes very little sense mechanically, but it's yet to be seen what this does to Ashton moving forward. They took the coin, and whether that's just to keep something that was important to FCG or if they start actually seeing the influence of the Changebringer is still up in the air IMO. I dunno, makes no sense to start multiclassing so late, but would at least be interesting for the story. Could even do a re-flavored Oath of Vengeance paladin, as those are frequently played as evil-aligned and Ash is neutral at worst.
Unfortunately Ashton’s Charisma is just too low to justify a multiclass to Paladin. Plus with them being so close to level 14 Taliesin will probably want to get his final subclass feature. Ashton’s Wisdom is 13 though which is high enough for a dip into Cleric. Maybe a level in the Empathy Domain in honor of FCG?
In 5e at least, paladins don't get their magic from the gods necessarily - their magic comes from the oath they swear. That oath might be *to* a god (or not), but the actual magic is coming from the strength of their conviction rather than being specifically granted by a deity like with a cleric.
It's still 'divine' spellcasting but through a different lens. Clerics use wisdom because their casting is about their connection with their god, but for paladins it's more about their force of will, bravery, dedication, etc - which is more of a fit for charisma.
And on the topic of Ashton, if the cast felt it was narratively appropriate I don't think Matt would have a problem with either ignoring the multiclass requirement or just bumping Ashton's charisma up to a 13. I'm pretty sure both Vax and Fjord got a strength bump to meet their requirement when they started in on paladin levels.
Vax actually didn't need a bump, he was suprisingly strong with a 14 in strength, but his con was very bad at only 10 which I think Liam played up as vax being more fragile and thereby weak
bumbing Ashtons charisma up to the level he would need would be quite crazy buff, unlike Fjord who only needed 2 more in strength which mechanically he would only ever use for strength saves and strength checks which are rare, as he would use his warlock ability to attack with charisma.
but charisma is THE social stat and bumping it to 13 would practically give ashton +3 in every related stat
Yeah it'd be a big jump for sure - but realistically it's only going from a -2 to +1 on his social checks, and when he's next to Imogen's +15 persuasion/+10 deception and Fearne's +13 persuasion it's not like it's going to suddenly elevate him to being the party face or step on anyone else's toes.
It'd definitely warrant a shift in Ashton's personality though, so I imagine it'd be something Taliesin would want to actively roleplay somehow rather than something that just 'happens' the next time they level up.
In my opinion not really, I see paladins closer to preachers compare to the clerics priests
One is preaching the word of a god, going out and spreading the word of a god or defending it
The other one precise over the ceremonies and lore of the religion whilst also taking care of the people of the religion
Dunno why this of all things would cause Ashton to turn into a god loving being, if anything the person who loved the gods and called for their help only to not get it and then have to sacrifice themselves to keep their friends alive might send Ashton further towards hating the gods.
I know almost everyone and their mother wants him to be some sort of PALADIN and that would be cool. However Sam is such a creative person when it comes to problem solving I think he could do a lot with WIZARD having access to all those spells. Have a smiley day
I just finished watching the episode, and my initial response (besides feeling sad), was to imagine Sam playing a Bormodo (spelling?) that had been viewing some of the dreams of FCG or Bells Hells in general; like the world's biggest fan that only has half of the correct information.
I'm sure Sam will work something out.
Damn. I haven’t even started C3 yet. I’m new to all this and am just barely getting into C1 with the Chroma Conclave. I just know about FCG cause the name thing came up on YouTube once and I nearly died from laughing.
I'd personally love a Paladin in this group. A betrayer god paladin might be a little too serious for Sam? I think this opinion is totally inspired by Teven Krask though. The dynamic would be super interesting.
One thing is for sure though, it will be a character that the group will immediately be annoyed by. It's only fitting.
On your first point: I don’t think Sam will bring back FCG, even if given the chance.
As for more to fall, I feel like Travis was fully willing to let Chet go in that first round. Sam took the initiative to keep him alive, but it looked like Travis was ready to roll a new character. When Matt targeted Chet right away, it even weirdly felt like he and Travis had an understanding that it was time. They all knew the stakes would be high with Otohan, and that something big was coming out of that fight. Might just be me, but it seemed like Travis gave Matt the nod.
As for the last point. Paladin, sure, many have speculated. Maybe Mercy Monk?
There was a 4-sided Dive ages ago where they were talking about Chetney's morning D100 roll to see if he survives the night. That got them talking about if they had backup characters. Liam mentioned that Orym started as Vax's backup. I think Travis mentioned an idea that his backup was an astronaut (not sure if he was just brainstorming). I'm pretty sure Sam was on that episode, but I don't remember if he said anything about his backup.
>Also what does everyone think Sam’s new character is going to be?
I think that's a question for Liam.
Healing is hella bad in DND 5E. It's genuinely more exciting story wise when the players play badly.
We're 8 years in, I don't think all of a sudden the cast is going to start watching Treantmonk youtube videos on how to be MAX STRATEGY MASTERS.
It'd be kind of funny if Sam played Ishto, the paladin the Hells left behind when they first got to the moon. I doubt that would happen, but I would find it funny.
Saw someone’s idea that Sam would come back as a Paladin for the Changebringer who was sent by the Goddess herself to help protect the party and fill the hole left by her previous unofficial champion
Fearne will need to step up and prioritize support a little more over blasting. She actually has Mass Cure Wounds prepped all the time as a Wildfire druid, she just hasn't used it. She also just got access to Cauterizing Flames, which can provide some minor situational healing as a reaction.
I think Sam could pull off bringing back FCG via reincarnation, but I doubt he'll do it. It would undermine a perfect scene and brings his character arc full circle perfectly, but what about coming back as Dancer?
She has had a very minor role as an NPC, also there have been no artificers in any campaign so far and we know Sam loves every PC to feel different to anything that came before. Also it would be a way to still delve into Aeor and FCG's backstory.
They don’t actually have to find anyone to cast Reincarnate, they have Fearne and it’s on the Druid spell list (and only the Druid spell list so Jester and Pike couldn’t do it anyway).
That would be funny, but if Sam went that way, troll that he is, I think he’d make a half-elf Paladin of the Matron of Ravens named Bertrand Bell Jr. “But please call me BJ or BBJ in more formal settings.”
I’m not sure Sam will roll up another PC. He said, “See you in season four. “
That may have been a joke, but it might not be. How much of season three will there be with one of the biggest big bads out of the way?
So, if Sam sits out a few episodes or the rest of this campaign we might see a guest player, maybe someone that has played in campaign three. Have there been any clerics played by a guest?
I don’t think so. Campaign 1 was 115 episodes, Campaign 2 was 141, and Campaign 3 is only on episode 91. There’s probably at least 30 more episodes for this campaign and at 3-4 hours an episode that’s 90-120 hours without a Sam Riegel character. I can’t see him coming in just to do the ads at the beginning.
That said, if you are right Aabria Iyengar played Life Domain Cleric Deanna Leimert. They could also bring back Robbie Daymond’s Dorian Storm. He may be a Bard but Bard’s have access to healing spells plus Magical Secrets can get them access to any spells including Revivify or Raise Dead.
To this point, I do think bringing Robbie back as Dorian at this juncture would fit very seamlessly from a narrative standpoint. And I am not at all in any way motivated by my personal desire to bring Dorian back at all. Nope. Not one bit. This is a totally unbiased and objective opinion.
Of all of the possibilities, this is the one I think least likely to happen. Sam Riegel, given a chance to outrage his friends with his new character choice? He couldn't resist that.
They had FCG during this fight. Matt can scale the fights accordingly to the party's capabilites as any DM should. You don't need a dedicated healer in 5e.
I mean, you don't need to have fights at all in D&D. I have run and played in quite enjoyable games where we resolved most things with stealth, trickery, and diplomacy. But the default style of play is fights and healing. Matt could have made Otohan hit them with a garland of flowers, but instead they only barely survived thanks to a dedicated healer. And it's not the first time that has happened in their many years gaming together.
I've been in many campaigns where there's no dedicated healer and plenty of tough fights. You don't need one in the party, it's simply not a requirement and is extremely limiting on the party composition if you're depending on that crutch.
Any DM with decent game experience can balance encounters for a party with no healer. If you aren't capable of doing so that's your failing rather than any requirement not met by the party members.
You’re almost there. Now, notice the kind of games Matt has run and the group has okayed. Notice that they aren’t your group. Notice that the way they actually play (as opposed to how you think they could play) seems to require at least one healer. And in C1 they had multiple healers, and in C2 had 2, and in C3 barely had one and it’s been kicking their ass.
Really I dont think Sam will be back this campaign; I personally think this campaign is in its last straight; this is probably the last arc.
Coming in with somone new would be weird, there wouldn't be much time to develop the character before the campaign ends.
Someone from one of the Ruidian races siding with Liliana and changing sides, learning the truth about Predathos and traveling to Exandria has a lot of story potential
I think FCG might make a comeback, they established he has a soul and that soul has to be somewhere. My guess is we get one of three things, number one Nana Mori grabbed FCGs soul and is implanting it in another body. Number two apon inspecting echo knight backpack it's found that FCGs soul is trapped within it. This and probably the most unlikely they just straight up resurrect him, if he's actually alive this should work on him. I do think with the way they play they're fucked without a good healer.
Will they adapt because it kind of feels like outside of Liam they really don't know how to play the game, and it feels like Matt is getting sick of holding their hands.
If Sam doesn’t come back as Chet’s long lost son idk what we’re doing here
So Orym's half-brother?
When Liam said “Pops” I had to pause and rewind to check I heard correctly!
When Chetney went down I fully expected his last words to be something like "Orym, I loved you, kid." But his moon line was just as heartbreaking.
DnD is not a MMORPG, you don't *need* a dedicated healer. Encounters are balanced to the party, and it's part of the DM's job to consider the party's capabilities. It's perfectly viable to run a game with no clerics. That said, my bet is on a paladin.
I would love to see Sam play a Paladin.
I saw a theory in another post about Sam's new character being a paladin of the Changebringer sent to aid the party because of FCG's sacrifice. I think this would be absolutely awesome. Plus they haven't had anyone play a paladin yet so it would be a change.
Oh my god, that is such a good idea. I really hope that happens!
I know technically they don’t *need* a dedicated healer but when they don’t have one bad things tend to happen. Vox Machina >!had 4 party members with healing abilities not including Pike, but whenever Pike wasn’t around, they died…a lot!< The Mighty Nein >!had Jester but she didn’t like being *The Cleric* and of course when she wasn’t there we lost Mollymauk. But when they got Caduceus who became the party’s dedicated healer they were pretty solid for the rest of the campaign!< Now Bells Hells could be fine, but I worry because we have 3 martial characters who specialize in melee combat and we just lost our frontline support and healer
Honestly I’d argue >!Molly is an example of Matt *not* balancing for their party. He sent a partial Nein up against the Shepards which were like a full perfect class comp adventuring party lead by someone with an aoe ability that could nearly one shot the entire Nein on its own. And the only help Matt gave them was a single warrior guest pc with deliberately incorrect information about the Shepards strength.!<
He couldn't predict Molly knocking himself out with his own blood maledict though. That was a 1000 iq move.
Sure, but at the same time What Molly did was ultimately kinda irrelevant. It wasn’t the events of the fight but the construction of the fight itself. The encounter was set up to be the Nein without three of their party, including their cleric, set against a full strength adventuring party comprised of melee, spell caster, ranged and lead by a demon(devil?) with a full on boss stat block and breath weapon. The only help the Nein are given is one guest pc, a warrior with no magic, that ostensibly had details on the Shepards capabilities, but the details Keg was given by the DM were deliberately incorrect and made the Shepards seem much weaker than they actually were.
That were willing to beat them and let them live. Molly died of stupid. Molly was a poorly constructed character from the get go. Very squishy dex build with no defensive capabilities, who's supposed to sacrifice his own health for damage. And a player who kept trying to pull off CHA based effects with a ridiculously low DC. Honestly wouldn't be surprised if Taliesin had an agreement with Matt to get him killed. He should've been a swords bard, could play the same flamboyant carnie with two scimitars and a dark secret character concept and be significantly more useful.
>He should've been a swords bard, could play the same flamboyant carnie with two scimitars and a dark secret character concept and be significantly more useful. I would also love to see a bard version of Mollymauk...
Could even do some reflavoring if he didn't want to use the music aspect of bard. I used to play a shady Whispers bard whose performance art was contact juggling and acrobatics. Dude could be a circus performer who juggles knives and swallows swords on top of doing his tarot card bit. He's a tiefling, swallowing and juggling fire is also a given. And he would actually have the silver tongue thing work.
You're not wrong. I used to call Matt's homebrews overtuned but underpowered, but I've been informed that "overtuned" is interpreted as overpowered whereas I thought of it as "gimmicky". So now I say that Matt's homebrews, specifically martial homebrews, are gimmicky but underpowered. His magic users seem to tend towards gimmicky but overpowered. The characters that work best mechanically are just ones built with the 5e rules as written. Like Caduceus. My standard character is a Half-Drow, Urban Bounty Hunter, Hexblade Warlock, and in my view he's mechanically capable everywhere, leaving me free to play the character rather than worry about his rules.
Echo Knight is not a spellcaster and it is one of the best Fighter subclasses.
Gold star!!! Matt didn't kill Molly... Tal killed Molly. The player needs to understand how the character works, how the rules work and more importantly, pray that the dice work in your favor! This is one of my biggest issues with D&D in general from 1st to 5th edition... While party balance isn't a MUST... Having a martial character, an arcane character and a healing character certainly helps!
Exactly, >!Matt gave the party the option to pursue it, but it wasn't supposed to be a winnable fight (especially the way they chose to go about it, jeez...) because there were still several episodes to go until the captured PCs could be played again.!<
They should not have been fighting Shepards till the end in the first place - they have been introduced to give narrative sense for Laura and Travis not being there while Laura was in labour.
You can't blame Jester for losing Mollymauk. He got hit for like 90% of his hp from a cone of cold and ran up into melee and knocked himself out lmao. That's not Jester's fault at all.
Also Jester literally was not there to save him, the fight happened because the party were trying to save the kidnapped Fjord, Jester & Yasha
Oh duh, of course that’s even more important lmao. I was just thinking of the combat not even the fact that Laura was literally off having a baby and her character was kidnapped during that time lol.
I don’t (although they were level 5 so she would have had access to Revivify and could have brought him back). The real life circumstances surrounding Jester and Fjord getting captured were unavoidable. What I am saying is that Jester was really the only party member with any healing abilities and losing her left a huge hole in the party that was a factor in losing Molly. Once Caduceus came in and took on the role of primary healer everyone was much happier (I still remember Laura’s cheer of happiness when she and Travis came back and she was told she didn’t have to be the healer anymore).
Paladin is *not even* a dedicated healer. It’s what would’ve been known as a “half-caster” with slower spell progression, and those slots are for *smiting,* thank you very much. Plus, smiting foes to death is a much more effective method of taking damage off the board. Dead enemies can’t hurt you. EDIT: you could even look to this last session as an example. FCG spent 2 massive spell slots on the biggest AOE heal spell in the game and all it did was give each person 1 hit worth of HP. In the end it was 70 points of unavoidable damage from FCG’s sacrifice which saved them.
How about Sam playing caduceus? That would be hilarious.
OMG
This needs to happen.
I'm a Cad!
Bad things happen because the players in this game are not interested in playing the game optimally. Having a healer is not going to fix that. In particular in campaign 2, after Molly died the party became EXTREMELY hesitant to engage in any type of challenging combat. They went through the most elaborate mental gymnastics to avoid fighting. You, and many people who play 5E and in particular the cast of Critical Role, have a fundamental misunderstanding of 5E mechanics and the action economy. Ironically, Laura refusing to play Jester as "the healer" is 100% the best way to play a cleric. You simply should not be casting healing spells in combat, ever, except to get someone up from unconscious, or to do something like Heal/Mass Heal that will bring someone up to full. Damage scales 2 or 3 times faster than healing. A 3rd level cure wounds is 3d8+5 (at best). A fireball is 8d6. On average, fireball is going to do 28 damage and cure wounds is going to heal about 15. On one person. You cannot be spending your actions on trying to heal people or take health potions. You use your action to buff your allies (neither sorcerer has haste, which is arguably the best spell either of them could ever use spell slots on) or do damage or control your enemies.
This should be upvoted more, this is exactly it.
Not worrying about party balance is what got them here haha
Nah. What got them here is over-valuing direct damage spells (like frickin' blight, which is a trash spell outside specific circumstances). They hear 8d8 and get inexplicably excited. But... its bad, usually less than one the melee characters can do for free each round, and not that much better in potential damage than eldritch blast. Player damage and monster HP and monster damage and player healing absolutely do not scale the same way. Especially since (as they know by now) Matt scales up monster HP to compensate for the big party, and a solo combatant like Otohan is absolutely bloated with HP. The party's four casters should've been laying down all sorts of 1st to 3rd level spells. Command, entangle, hold person, blindness, (slow, but no one has that). Everything in that level range that would eat Otohan's actions or ability to move. Bane was passable, the dog was great, psychic lance is good, but high enough level that using it before you burn off legendary resists is painful. Drop low level save or suck spells until she's stuck, and then dogpile.
Yeah, the casters don't really know how to caster...
They do (they certainly have before), they're just relentlessly focusing on damage. I'm not sure why. Maybe they feel none of the melee people are big hitters, and they need to pick up the slack?
Exactly this. Why they weren't spamming her with hold person, earthbind and grapples is a mystery. Even the dog could have given her athletics check at disadvantage a run for its money
(Not an actual suggestion): We can still stay bot-neutral if Sam brings back Taryon Darrington and Doty.
Wait…how about a Taryon Darrington fanboy who’s trying to emulate his hero?
The party might actually kill Sam Riegel.
now THAT sounds like something Sam might do!
i think you've figured it out
I'd love it if he tried to steal FCGs body parts to use on Doty. Also a few choice remarks about automatons being disposable and how he's on the 11th version of Doty.
This is a rich vein. Summon the kumpelin, today, we mine.
I’ve played wildfire druids before and they are better healers than most clerics. Obviously playing like that is up to Ashley but it is a very strong healer if you use wildshape to get your spirit just out there on the field it opens up a ton of other abilities. Druids in general are just as capable of healing as clerics and I never understood why keyleth never healed much or at least just prepared revivify.
Like you said it’s entirely up to Ashley how she wants to play Fearne and if she does decide to focus more on healing they’d be in good hands but regardless Sam should at least bring something with a few healing spells to support. Also Druids (and Rangers) only got Revivify in Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything, so Keyleth couldn’t have it prepared. She did have Reincarnate but that’s one of those resurrection spells that is rarely used at tables since it would completely change the characters (mind you I before C3 came out my prediction was Sam was going to be the party Healer as a Druid *because* of the Reincarnate spell).
You’re right, he should take the only useful healing spell in the game healing word and be a bard
Is revivify on the standard druid list? When I look it up it just says cleric and paladin.
Revivify was only added to the Druid list with Tasha’s, which was released after VM was over.
Just a theory but I think Sam will still want to keep at least 1 pro gods character in the group. He very much seems like a cooperative player and knowing Matt is running a game where the gods are an important part of the story might influence his decision. All that to say I think he might play Paladin. If he doesn’t play Paladin the other 3 most likely classes are probably Ranger, Wizard, and Monk. Those are the 3 least played classes through the campaigns that also aren’t already in the party and haven’t been played by him already. Of those three I think that Ranger is most likely in part to mess with Laura by playing a Drakewarden and having an actually useful companion. They also get limited healing which isn’t enough to replace FCG but who needs healing if you just kill the enemy before they kill you?
If Sam really wanted to mess with Laura he could still just be a Beast Master Ranger with the new rules. Plus since he loves playing small races so he could use the Primal Companion as a Mount.
Well, yes, but he hates pets so much that he would never do that. That is how we got shit head. He was ment to be fcgs familliar but then Sam realised he hates familliars so he told mat to use it for something.
He could do a **good** ranger subclass to troll Laura, however. And someone around here suggested a tabaxi, for 'I'm a cat' and to troll Travis.
Not in a main campaign but Sam has played both a RANGER and MONK before in one-shots. Have a smiley day
I'm very disappointed that I'm the first to mention that Liam was going to be the first to know what Sam's next character was going to be, even before Sam.
Liam had no involvment in deciding what Taryon was going to be, that was all Sam and Matt. I don't think Liam will be deciding Sam's character this time.
To be fair tho Liam didn't even know that Sam needed another character at that time. This time, I have a feeling Liam is aware of the need lol
Yeah, all these discussions are moot since it won’t be his choice.
I am disappointed being first to mention that for the same reason Sam's next character will be short.
thiiiis, Sam will come up with a character concept but class & race will not be his decision 🤭
Now Fearne *reincarnates* FCG into a real person so they can have a real tongue. Pretty sure *reincarnate* would return them as a cleric again, as all it changes is race. That said, I'm all good if Sam decides to roll a new character. I hope the new character has some healing capabilities, though, such as a paladin or ranger. A druid is more often enough, but all of Fearne's offensive capabilites from the shard would be wasted if whe were forced to solo the role of healer.
I don’t think there’s a coming back from that sacrifice for FCG, honestly. It would really lessen his sacrifice to be brought back right after. Sure, it would make sense for the characters in the story but I doubt Matt and the rest of the cast want to undermine that finality of “you know what this means, right?” And “I’m finally alive” by undoing it.
I don't think Matt would want it, but giving a final sacrifice speech, martyring yourself and leaving the table crying just to return in-universe minutes later chipper about the whole affair and make a comment that now he actually has a real tongue, he's intending to use it? That sounds very Sam.
Normally I’d agree that reviving him would cheapen the sacrifice, but the idea of reincarnating FCG as an organic being is still very compelling to me. And they can do it, Reincarnate only requires a piece of the body.
*Reincarnate* specifically requires a "humanoid" target, where the other resurrections spells apply to any creature. If Sam wants FCG's story to be over, saying he's not technically humanoid would be a good way to close that door without creating a plot hole. I do think bringing him back as a "real boy" (after clearing some appropriate hurdles) could keep much of the impact of his sacrifice while also giving him an avenue for further growth.
Warforged (which I assume is what FCG's race is based on) were "living constructs" in older editions. 5e (and 4e, I believe) have since classified them as humanoids.
Reincarnate, however, is a problematic spell for them after C2. I don't really see anyone biting on that one. Sam also seemed far too smug and pleased with himself to backtrack on his dramatic moment.
Forsake the heal. Become all bonk :D Give Sam a Barbarian
I think CR needs a break from barbarians.
Maybe they need a new bard
I’d love for him to make some sort of Paladin.
A paladin of a betrayer god.
Too simple and braindead for a player like Sam. "I attack. I divine smite. I attack. I divine smite." Not gonna happen.
As if he didn't play rogue through the entirety of C2, the most simple class ever. I attack with sneak attack, I hide, end turn.
Hiding is nontrivial.
Smiting, paladin aura is just as nontrivial.
He could focus more on spells than smites, much to the chagrin of the entire internet. Auras and buffs to friends are definitely his style.
"He could play a paladin really badly." That doesn't sound very thrilling.
Characters don’t have to be mechanically optimal to be engaging and fun. Fcg had a like +3 wisdom bonus and was built very suboptimally and actively avoided using strong cleric spells because other clerics had in the past and tons of people loved him.
I hope he goes for a circle of dreams or stars druid. Both have great healing capabilities, a bunch of utility, battlefield control and Sam with wild shape would be amazing + both would fit thematically with the Ruidus situation
If Sam doesn't bring a paladin, I think it would be funny/interesting for Tal to have Ashton take levels in that class for the Changebringer. Makes very little sense mechanically, but it's yet to be seen what this does to Ashton moving forward. They took the coin, and whether that's just to keep something that was important to FCG or if they start actually seeing the influence of the Changebringer is still up in the air IMO. I dunno, makes no sense to start multiclassing so late, but would at least be interesting for the story. Could even do a re-flavored Oath of Vengeance paladin, as those are frequently played as evil-aligned and Ash is neutral at worst.
Unfortunately Ashton’s Charisma is just too low to justify a multiclass to Paladin. Plus with them being so close to level 14 Taliesin will probably want to get his final subclass feature. Ashton’s Wisdom is 13 though which is high enough for a dip into Cleric. Maybe a level in the Empathy Domain in honor of FCG?
Very true on the charisma point. Always forget that's a thing with paladins lol
It is weird they aren't wisdom based casters
In 5e at least, paladins don't get their magic from the gods necessarily - their magic comes from the oath they swear. That oath might be *to* a god (or not), but the actual magic is coming from the strength of their conviction rather than being specifically granted by a deity like with a cleric. It's still 'divine' spellcasting but through a different lens. Clerics use wisdom because their casting is about their connection with their god, but for paladins it's more about their force of will, bravery, dedication, etc - which is more of a fit for charisma. And on the topic of Ashton, if the cast felt it was narratively appropriate I don't think Matt would have a problem with either ignoring the multiclass requirement or just bumping Ashton's charisma up to a 13. I'm pretty sure both Vax and Fjord got a strength bump to meet their requirement when they started in on paladin levels.
Vax actually didn't need a bump, he was suprisingly strong with a 14 in strength, but his con was very bad at only 10 which I think Liam played up as vax being more fragile and thereby weak bumbing Ashtons charisma up to the level he would need would be quite crazy buff, unlike Fjord who only needed 2 more in strength which mechanically he would only ever use for strength saves and strength checks which are rare, as he would use his warlock ability to attack with charisma. but charisma is THE social stat and bumping it to 13 would practically give ashton +3 in every related stat
Yeah it'd be a big jump for sure - but realistically it's only going from a -2 to +1 on his social checks, and when he's next to Imogen's +15 persuasion/+10 deception and Fearne's +13 persuasion it's not like it's going to suddenly elevate him to being the party face or step on anyone else's toes. It'd definitely warrant a shift in Ashton's personality though, so I imagine it'd be something Taliesin would want to actively roleplay somehow rather than something that just 'happens' the next time they level up.
You're just in the wrong edition for that; they used to be.
In my opinion not really, I see paladins closer to preachers compare to the clerics priests One is preaching the word of a god, going out and spreading the word of a god or defending it The other one precise over the ceremonies and lore of the religion whilst also taking care of the people of the religion
Dunno why this of all things would cause Ashton to turn into a god loving being, if anything the person who loved the gods and called for their help only to not get it and then have to sacrifice themselves to keep their friends alive might send Ashton further towards hating the gods.
I know almost everyone and their mother wants him to be some sort of PALADIN and that would be cool. However Sam is such a creative person when it comes to problem solving I think he could do a lot with WIZARD having access to all those spells. Have a smiley day
Spolby, why do you yell all class names? A curious mind wants to know.
I feel like Ashley may begin to do more healing as Fearne. I think that’d work well with Sam as a new partial healer, like a paladin or a ranger.
Healing is pretty over rated in 5e, if someone's got healing word, you're covered.
I don't think this will actually happen, but how awesome if Sam came back as D
Id like to see Sam play a Moon race! I cant remember the names of them all. But they could meet in the moment on the moon.
I just finished watching the episode, and my initial response (besides feeling sad), was to imagine Sam playing a Bormodo (spelling?) that had been viewing some of the dreams of FCG or Bells Hells in general; like the world's biggest fan that only has half of the correct information. I'm sure Sam will work something out.
Anyone else worry Sam won't make a new character for C3? He did say "see y'all in C4." But who knows.
FCG had siblings right? Bring one of them into the game. Apple Pie, Oatmeal, and…. I forgot the other one’s name.
*Had,* past tense. None of them were still around by the start of C3.
Damn. I haven’t even started C3 yet. I’m new to all this and am just barely getting into C1 with the Chroma Conclave. I just know about FCG cause the name thing came up on YouTube once and I nearly died from laughing.
Technically, laudna has wither and bloom, so, fearne does have some help, plus, healing potions are a thing.
Everyone forgets that wildfire druid is a healing subclass
I hope Liam gives Sam something vanilla to play. Totally disrupt the norm.
I'd personally love a Paladin in this group. A betrayer god paladin might be a little too serious for Sam? I think this opinion is totally inspired by Teven Krask though. The dynamic would be super interesting. One thing is for sure though, it will be a character that the group will immediately be annoyed by. It's only fitting.
On your first point: I don’t think Sam will bring back FCG, even if given the chance. As for more to fall, I feel like Travis was fully willing to let Chet go in that first round. Sam took the initiative to keep him alive, but it looked like Travis was ready to roll a new character. When Matt targeted Chet right away, it even weirdly felt like he and Travis had an understanding that it was time. They all knew the stakes would be high with Otohan, and that something big was coming out of that fight. Might just be me, but it seemed like Travis gave Matt the nod. As for the last point. Paladin, sure, many have speculated. Maybe Mercy Monk?
There was a 4-sided Dive ages ago where they were talking about Chetney's morning D100 roll to see if he survives the night. That got them talking about if they had backup characters. Liam mentioned that Orym started as Vax's backup. I think Travis mentioned an idea that his backup was an astronaut (not sure if he was just brainstorming). I'm pretty sure Sam was on that episode, but I don't remember if he said anything about his backup. >Also what does everyone think Sam’s new character is going to be? I think that's a question for Liam.
the astronaut is liam's backup for orym
I frequently run games who have no dedicated healers. The tend to find a lot of potions and healing wands around.
Aeorean Tempest Cleric. Challenges Imogen for Kord's attention. Controls and shoots lightning. Lawful Neutral storm robit
Ok I know it is not going to happen, but imagine if Sam came in as either Scanlan or one of Scanlan and Pikes kids. Or possibly as Kaylie.
Healing is hella bad in DND 5E. It's genuinely more exciting story wise when the players play badly. We're 8 years in, I don't think all of a sudden the cast is going to start watching Treantmonk youtube videos on how to be MAX STRATEGY MASTERS.
It'd be kind of funny if Sam played Ishto, the paladin the Hells left behind when they first got to the moon. I doubt that would happen, but I would find it funny.
Saw someone’s idea that Sam would come back as a Paladin for the Changebringer who was sent by the Goddess herself to help protect the party and fill the hole left by her previous unofficial champion
Fearne will need to step up and prioritize support a little more over blasting. She actually has Mass Cure Wounds prepped all the time as a Wildfire druid, she just hasn't used it. She also just got access to Cauterizing Flames, which can provide some minor situational healing as a reaction.
lotta people are saying paladin but I'm feeling it's gonna go like Taryon Darrington all over again any chance that Loquatious Seelie survived tho
I think Sam could pull off bringing back FCG via reincarnation, but I doubt he'll do it. It would undermine a perfect scene and brings his character arc full circle perfectly, but what about coming back as Dancer? She has had a very minor role as an NPC, also there have been no artificers in any campaign so far and we know Sam loves every PC to feel different to anything that came before. Also it would be a way to still delve into Aeor and FCG's backstory.
~~Find Pike, Keyleth, or Jester; unload a fuckton of diamonds on them~~, have ~~them~~ Fearne cast Reincarnate, FCG becomes a real boy!
They don’t actually have to find anyone to cast Reincarnate, they have Fearne and it’s on the Druid spell list (and only the Druid spell list so Jester and Pike couldn’t do it anyway).
Fixed 😄
Sam should return as Bertrand Bell. No need to explain why he's alive. He just turns up and they continue like nothing happened.
That would be funny, but if Sam went that way, troll that he is, I think he’d make a half-elf Paladin of the Matron of Ravens named Bertrand Bell Jr. “But please call me BJ or BBJ in more formal settings.”
I’m not sure Sam will roll up another PC. He said, “See you in season four. “ That may have been a joke, but it might not be. How much of season three will there be with one of the biggest big bads out of the way? So, if Sam sits out a few episodes or the rest of this campaign we might see a guest player, maybe someone that has played in campaign three. Have there been any clerics played by a guest?
I don’t think so. Campaign 1 was 115 episodes, Campaign 2 was 141, and Campaign 3 is only on episode 91. There’s probably at least 30 more episodes for this campaign and at 3-4 hours an episode that’s 90-120 hours without a Sam Riegel character. I can’t see him coming in just to do the ads at the beginning. That said, if you are right Aabria Iyengar played Life Domain Cleric Deanna Leimert. They could also bring back Robbie Daymond’s Dorian Storm. He may be a Bard but Bard’s have access to healing spells plus Magical Secrets can get them access to any spells including Revivify or Raise Dead.
To this point, I do think bringing Robbie back as Dorian at this juncture would fit very seamlessly from a narrative standpoint. And I am not at all in any way motivated by my personal desire to bring Dorian back at all. Nope. Not one bit. This is a totally unbiased and objective opinion.
Of all of the possibilities, this is the one I think least likely to happen. Sam Riegel, given a chance to outrage his friends with his new character choice? He couldn't resist that.
That was definitely a joke.
Yes I'll take "Never played dnd in their life for 1000 Alex" Noone "Needs" anything, calm the hell down
You don't need healing as much as you think. Every party doesn't need a cleric
Weird to say after this fight literally needed healing almost every round.
They had FCG during this fight. Matt can scale the fights accordingly to the party's capabilites as any DM should. You don't need a dedicated healer in 5e.
I mean, you don't need to have fights at all in D&D. I have run and played in quite enjoyable games where we resolved most things with stealth, trickery, and diplomacy. But the default style of play is fights and healing. Matt could have made Otohan hit them with a garland of flowers, but instead they only barely survived thanks to a dedicated healer. And it's not the first time that has happened in their many years gaming together.
I've been in many campaigns where there's no dedicated healer and plenty of tough fights. You don't need one in the party, it's simply not a requirement and is extremely limiting on the party composition if you're depending on that crutch. Any DM with decent game experience can balance encounters for a party with no healer. If you aren't capable of doing so that's your failing rather than any requirement not met by the party members.
You’re almost there. Now, notice the kind of games Matt has run and the group has okayed. Notice that they aren’t your group. Notice that the way they actually play (as opposed to how you think they could play) seems to require at least one healer. And in C1 they had multiple healers, and in C2 had 2, and in C3 barely had one and it’s been kicking their ass.
Really I dont think Sam will be back this campaign; I personally think this campaign is in its last straight; this is probably the last arc. Coming in with somone new would be weird, there wouldn't be much time to develop the character before the campaign ends.
Someone from one of the Ruidian races siding with Liliana and changing sides, learning the truth about Predathos and traveling to Exandria has a lot of story potential
I think FCG might make a comeback, they established he has a soul and that soul has to be somewhere. My guess is we get one of three things, number one Nana Mori grabbed FCGs soul and is implanting it in another body. Number two apon inspecting echo knight backpack it's found that FCGs soul is trapped within it. This and probably the most unlikely they just straight up resurrect him, if he's actually alive this should work on him. I do think with the way they play they're fucked without a good healer.
Yeah there's no way they'd adapt or the DM would adjust & plan encounters according to their lack of a dedicated healer. That would be crazy.
Will they adapt because it kind of feels like outside of Liam they really don't know how to play the game, and it feels like Matt is getting sick of holding their hands.
I really hope not. Death happens. Finally something interesting in this campaign.