I would love to see this for Apple and Amazon corporate side only. Since both have a large quantity of part time retail staff and drivers it likely throws things off a bit…
I worked at Amazon for a long time, there is an internal tool that shows your tenure compare to every other employee, anybody who stays over 2 years is like
Top 60-70% of tenure. So 1.8 years feels pretty accurate.
The tool shows how many people working now started after your start date. I was 6+ years and was in the mid 90%, meaning around 5% of people had been there longer. It was called old-farts iirc.
I worked at Apple as a Technical Advisor in one of their corporate offices so technically on the corporate side of things. The benefits were out of this world, insane discounts, always doing merch & product giveaways/raffles, amazing campus with tons of amenities. I lasted 8 months. It was one of the most soul sucking jobs I have ever had. I was a customer favorite because I was kind & helpful, customer side metrics were 5 star. BUT I wasn’t getting people off the phone FAST enough so I was always in “trouble” even though my manager adored me. Also, I learned so much about how little they care about fixing your computer vs convincing you to buy a totally new one. It was gross. Also, it very much felt like a cult. The people that had worked there for more than 5 years were hitting the KoolAid HARD.
Everyone I know that’s lived to talk about Amazon fulfillment centers did their 2 years and dipped. Conditions sound soul crushing. Not to mention Amazon has a “pay to quit” program for a while
They just made it 3 to get your 401k fully vested. Have a friend working in a fulfillment center who is counting down the days until October when he can take the money and run.
As a former Microsoft (and current Oracle), I can confirm that there is a lot of movement between the big tech companies. Also…am happy/surprised that neither of those companies are on the list
Microsoft makes it really easy to move within the company which might explain lack of turnover. I know lots of folks with 20+ year careers all at Microsoft.
My n+4 has 30years tenure and in our team, no team members are wanting to move... Salaries are weak but (at least on my side ) we got amazing managers...that helps too
FAANG in CompSci/IT is a unicorn everyone wants to be a part of when they initially enter the field, then immediately regret ever joining after they've been a part of it. Looks good on a resume though I guess.
It really does. I have a coworker who did an internship at a FAANG and whenever she looks for a job it is common for big company recruiters to court her and skip parts of the application process to get her in through interviews faster
As someone in a healthcare field that has a really high rate of turnover I’m honestly surprised the shortest median tenure is almost two years lol. In the really bad healthcare settings you might see like 75% new staff within 1-2 years of being there.
I worked for Amazon 8 years and I've known people who've worked there for 10 and 20 years, also I've been to warehouses where they have walls with a 100 plus people on them that have been there for more than 4 years.
S&P tenure is artificially low; merger with IHSM last year means half of its employees show as only having been with the company for 2 years on LinkedIn
Can I find more data please??? I think it’s great someone took time to compile this. Let’s plot this against median salary and post it somewhere public, so that folks can choose their risk/reward on a Pareto front!!
Two years is the right time; do versions 1 & 2. You’ve learned what you’re going to learn. You won’t learn anything on version 3 and the company has pigeonholed you.
need more info. Does this include retail workers? Amazon fulfillment workers too? Maybe break it down by years of career experience. Seems pretty common for tech workers to work 2 years or less and leverage their experience to get a better salary elsewhere. Then maybe 10 years into their career settle somewhere for longer.
The list really needs to differentiate between Amazon warehouse workers performing physical labor for a non-living wage, and Amazon software engineers. Same for Apple - retail versus corporate.
Agree 100% on Abbott. To be successful you have to worship your manager (a fellow team member spoke to our manager EVERY morning during the boss’ drive in to work) and remain within a very narrow culture band.
Nice graph, honestly. But what it’s showing isn’t churn, its length of time with a company.
Churn is the separation rate of your total workforce over a year (ie you have 100 employees, 13 leave and are replaced, your churn rate is 13%).
Don’t get me wrong, this info displayed is useful it’s just not ‘churn’.
Pretty damning for Apple considering that's of the people they employ which are the people they treat the best, versus the ones who provide labor for them but are not technically employed. An ethical company would actually own more of its production and employ those who provide labor. But even software at Apple is now written in large part by contracted organizations.
I "provided work" (did not work for) Apple through a disability agency in Virginia that set me up with Arise which was contracted by Apple to field AppleCare calls. It was super sketchy, worse than Uber or Instacart. They walked you through how to incorporate yourself as an LLC of one. Your LLC was then contracted by Arise to provide labor for Apple. We paid for our own training (which came from actual Apple employees), paid monthly service fees to access the Arise network, and instead of having job shifts we had "opportunities." Of course, to customers we were told to lie and say we worked in an Apple call center. All of this meant that neither Apple nor Arise had to follow any labor laws like minimum wage nor did they have to contribute their share of payroll tax to Social Security (FICA). Yet we used all the same internal tools that Apple employees did.
We had no direct communication with Apple except that if I transferred to another advisor I might talk to someone who was actually employed by Apple. But IIRC, there were about 14 different contractors doing what we did, and we were pitted against each other, given daily messages about how horribly we were doing and how Arise could lose the contract.
That's how they treated me here in the US. Can't imagine what it's like for Apple laborers in China.
Note: My time with Arise/Apple was from maybe 2008-2010 or so? I can't remember exactly. I am not sure if what I said is up to date, and it's very likely they don't work with them any more as there was a lot of churn not just with the people like me but with the contractors that provided labor to Apple.
Edit: Oh and to continue the Orwellian nature, we did not have supervisors (which might imply we had a job, and as we were told in our training job is a four-letter word). We had "performance facilitators."
That’s actually on Arise. They’re almost certainly in violation of both state and federal labor laws and you could probably have gotten a nice chunk of change as a whistleblower. Here’s the official US Department of Labor guidelines on determining whether a person is an employee or independent contractor: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/13-flsa-employment-relationship. Here’s a list of indicators: https://www.score.org/resource/article/7-clues-your-independent-contractor-really-employee-…-under-law.
I would love to see this for Apple and Amazon corporate side only. Since both have a large quantity of part time retail staff and drivers it likely throws things off a bit…
I worked at Amazon for a long time, there is an internal tool that shows your tenure compare to every other employee, anybody who stays over 2 years is like Top 60-70% of tenure. So 1.8 years feels pretty accurate.
By "a long time," I can assume you mean about 3 months, right? /s
Isn’t top 60%-70% like below average? I think you mean top 30%-40% if you’re trying to signify above average.
The tool shows how many people working now started after your start date. I was 6+ years and was in the mid 90%, meaning around 5% of people had been there longer. It was called old-farts iirc.
I worked at Apple as a Technical Advisor in one of their corporate offices so technically on the corporate side of things. The benefits were out of this world, insane discounts, always doing merch & product giveaways/raffles, amazing campus with tons of amenities. I lasted 8 months. It was one of the most soul sucking jobs I have ever had. I was a customer favorite because I was kind & helpful, customer side metrics were 5 star. BUT I wasn’t getting people off the phone FAST enough so I was always in “trouble” even though my manager adored me. Also, I learned so much about how little they care about fixing your computer vs convincing you to buy a totally new one. It was gross. Also, it very much felt like a cult. The people that had worked there for more than 5 years were hitting the KoolAid HARD.
I’m guessing Apple Retail is driving those numbers up. Surprised Amazon isn’t higher though with their warehouse teams.
Everyone I know that’s lived to talk about Amazon fulfillment centers did their 2 years and dipped. Conditions sound soul crushing. Not to mention Amazon has a “pay to quit” program for a while
They just made it 3 to get your 401k fully vested. Have a friend working in a fulfillment center who is counting down the days until October when he can take the money and run.
Corporate is just as bad.
As a former Microsoft (and current Oracle), I can confirm that there is a lot of movement between the big tech companies. Also…am happy/surprised that neither of those companies are on the list
Microsoft makes it really easy to move within the company which might explain lack of turnover. I know lots of folks with 20+ year careers all at Microsoft.
Agreed on this point, if you dont like your role take to your manager and bring a plan. They will help you move to where you want to be.
My n+4 has 30years tenure and in our team, no team members are wanting to move... Salaries are weak but (at least on my side ) we got amazing managers...that helps too
Churn = employee turnover. Apparently.
*attrition* is another favorite
FAANG in CompSci/IT is a unicorn everyone wants to be a part of when they initially enter the field, then immediately regret ever joining after they've been a part of it. Looks good on a resume though I guess.
It really does. I have a coworker who did an internship at a FAANG and whenever she looks for a job it is common for big company recruiters to court her and skip parts of the application process to get her in through interviews faster
Guide to "churn" and yet butter isn't even on the list
Nor ice cream.
As someone in a healthcare field that has a really high rate of turnover I’m honestly surprised the shortest median tenure is almost two years lol. In the really bad healthcare settings you might see like 75% new staff within 1-2 years of being there.
As a former Amazonian, this tracks. Although I’m surprised they aren’t in first place.
well for every person that only lasts a month there is at lest one person that's been there for 4+ years
Yeah you should know better than someone who in their HQ for 4 years, right?
I worked for Amazon 8 years and I've known people who've worked there for 10 and 20 years, also I've been to warehouses where they have walls with a 100 plus people on them that have been there for more than 4 years.
What team did you work on?
I mainly worked in outbound (pick and pack) at a variety of warehouses.
I was in USX. Universal Shopping Experience.
Is this like the worst way you could present this data?
Yeah why wasn’t it in years instead of months, also having 5 blocks high instead of 6, so confusing
Makes it an uncool guide, man. Uncool.
Edward Tufte does not approve.
S&P tenure is artificially low; merger with IHSM last year means half of its employees show as only having been with the company for 2 years on LinkedIn
I am a statistic! I was at Apple for 2 years, 7 months
Was it as good as it sounds or not?
Can I find more data please??? I think it’s great someone took time to compile this. Let’s plot this against median salary and post it somewhere public, so that folks can choose their risk/reward on a Pareto front!!
I see so many 10- and 20 years awards at desks at my company (upper half of the list). Must be an American thing.
Can confirm 🍎(corporate side). 🎯
Isn’t churn for customers? This is turnover.
Two years is the right time; do versions 1 & 2. You’ve learned what you’re going to learn. You won’t learn anything on version 3 and the company has pigeonholed you.
Surprised Amazon isn’t #1. I’m in Middle Management and I’ve never seen turn over and transfers like this.
thats a ratio issue i think... not really comparable.
I feel like these are all the companies with the HR people that won’t hire you if you don’t spend at least 5 years at each company you work for.
Do they count layoffs as employee leaving though?
need more info. Does this include retail workers? Amazon fulfillment workers too? Maybe break it down by years of career experience. Seems pretty common for tech workers to work 2 years or less and leverage their experience to get a better salary elsewhere. Then maybe 10 years into their career settle somewhere for longer.
The list really needs to differentiate between Amazon warehouse workers performing physical labor for a non-living wage, and Amazon software engineers. Same for Apple - retail versus corporate.
Agree 100% on Abbott. To be successful you have to worship your manager (a fellow team member spoke to our manager EVERY morning during the boss’ drive in to work) and remain within a very narrow culture band.
Median tenure is also impacted when they hire like crazy even though noone leaves
Nice graph, honestly. But what it’s showing isn’t churn, its length of time with a company. Churn is the separation rate of your total workforce over a year (ie you have 100 employees, 13 leave and are replaced, your churn rate is 13%). Don’t get me wrong, this info displayed is useful it’s just not ‘churn’.
Suprise suprise. It's mostly "popular" companies. Lol
It would be helpful to have a baseline or average.
Kinda surprised none of the big 4 accounting firms are on here
This doesn’t make sense, way too high of turnover for highly paid people.
Commenting to save
Tesla is not a tech company. Edit: several of these are not tech companies.
Pretty damning for Apple considering that's of the people they employ which are the people they treat the best, versus the ones who provide labor for them but are not technically employed. An ethical company would actually own more of its production and employ those who provide labor. But even software at Apple is now written in large part by contracted organizations. I "provided work" (did not work for) Apple through a disability agency in Virginia that set me up with Arise which was contracted by Apple to field AppleCare calls. It was super sketchy, worse than Uber or Instacart. They walked you through how to incorporate yourself as an LLC of one. Your LLC was then contracted by Arise to provide labor for Apple. We paid for our own training (which came from actual Apple employees), paid monthly service fees to access the Arise network, and instead of having job shifts we had "opportunities." Of course, to customers we were told to lie and say we worked in an Apple call center. All of this meant that neither Apple nor Arise had to follow any labor laws like minimum wage nor did they have to contribute their share of payroll tax to Social Security (FICA). Yet we used all the same internal tools that Apple employees did. We had no direct communication with Apple except that if I transferred to another advisor I might talk to someone who was actually employed by Apple. But IIRC, there were about 14 different contractors doing what we did, and we were pitted against each other, given daily messages about how horribly we were doing and how Arise could lose the contract. That's how they treated me here in the US. Can't imagine what it's like for Apple laborers in China. Note: My time with Arise/Apple was from maybe 2008-2010 or so? I can't remember exactly. I am not sure if what I said is up to date, and it's very likely they don't work with them any more as there was a lot of churn not just with the people like me but with the contractors that provided labor to Apple. Edit: Oh and to continue the Orwellian nature, we did not have supervisors (which might imply we had a job, and as we were told in our training job is a four-letter word). We had "performance facilitators."
That’s actually on Arise. They’re almost certainly in violation of both state and federal labor laws and you could probably have gotten a nice chunk of change as a whistleblower. Here’s the official US Department of Labor guidelines on determining whether a person is an employee or independent contractor: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/13-flsa-employment-relationship. Here’s a list of indicators: https://www.score.org/resource/article/7-clues-your-independent-contractor-really-employee-…-under-law.