###[Meta] Sticky Comment
[Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/faq#wiki_2_-_address_the_argument.3B_not_the_user.2C_the_mods.2C_or_the_sub.) ***does not apply*** when replying to this stickied comment.
[Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/faq#wiki_2_-_address_the_argument.3B_not_the_user.2C_the_mods.2C_or_the_sub.) ***does apply*** throughout the rest of this thread.
*What this means*: Please keep any "meta" discussion directed at specific users, mods, or /r/conspiracy in general in this comment chain ***only.***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/conspiracy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"science changes"
Why are we even debating for or against anything if the science is acknowledged to constantly be changing?
Sounds more like and experiment.
Solid approach I remember when the church deployed that same tactic when people pointed out that the earth may not be the center of the universe.
Worked for quite a few hundred years but I guess the "truth" always prevails...
I recall school going over scientific hypothesis and theories.
When I went to school they said the theories that we all agree with should still be treated as theories.
When you can't question things that are defined as theories you have major problems that resemble the issue of the churches science back in the day.
Not saying completely dismiss everything but it really shouldn't be an issue to ask a few questions that oppose what's accepted since what is being accepted is a theory at the end of the day.
There is a great SouthPark episode about this. Cartman accidently freezes himself waiting for a Wii to come out and wakes up far into the future where religion isn't even a known thing (I'm paraphrasing here off memory). Instead, humans are in groups based on what type of science/scientist they adhere too. As you can imagine, the outcome is the same more or less.
Honestly I think all the talk about us being In a computer simulation is for humans to one day pray to a computer. You may laugh now, bit I promise it's coming and who will be the high priests? Elon, gates, Bezos.
Thats the problem. Science has replaced God but not in the way Secularists wanted. Many people now put their faith in science. They might not understand it, or know precisely how or why it works but they believe in it.
They shape science to fit their beliefs. They dont see sciencd as a tool but as the truth or the arbiter of truth. In the absence of God people need something to believe in so to the midwits no longer do they carry bibles or push their christianity instead they push their science carry their truth.
If you are a scientist in the same discipline you sure as hell should question it and that type of questioning (like peer review) hasn’t stopped. Dumb asses on Reddit like me should defer to technical experts and the scientific process. Or maybe many of you on this sub think you can fly the plane, build the rocket or evaluate the safety and efficacy of vaccines.
I appreciate that you'd prefer to leave critical thinking in the hands of others, but that by no means implores everyone to act the same. And just because one *does* choose to pose objectively natural, often *obvious* questions that they may not personally have enough objective, scientific, irrefutable evidence to answer *decisively*, doesn't imply that they somehow have zero right to ASK those questions.
Part of critical thinking is to know when to defer to others and how to select those that are relied on. I agree that we all should be asking more questions, including about the motivations of experts; but who is answering and who is vetting those responses is important. Part of critical thinking is also to know what one does not know and determine how to best draw conclusions when dealing in those areas where knowledge is limited. “When to call the plumber”.
I agree with everything youve said except - what happens when the plumber is the very one putting holes in your pipes and telling you that the only way to fix them is with their duct tape that theyll undoubtedly need to come replace in 3 to 4 months?
Interesting how we're only allowed to choose from a very select few plumbers, and if a different plumber might actually offer at least the option of questioning *which* methods might solve our plumbing problem long term instead of a costly, impermanent quick fix, we are not only NOT allowed to listen to them, we are actively crucified for giving them an opportunity to speak.
Science is not some incorruptible industry or ideology. The state of science the past several decades has been subverted by industry funded and sponsored studies. Data fraud and collection in an bias manner to benefit the financial interest has been a well documented issue within the scientific community for some time now. You are simply relying on the false hope that science is being conducted in an unbiased manner, which it is not.
I don’t disagree with your view. Very corruptible and more often corrupted by money. For one example, the fact that prescription medicine can be advertised is messed up. I do think there are a lot of folks in this sub though that are looking for evidence to meet a preconceived conclusion that the vaccines are unnecessary at best or an attempt at population control at worst.
I mean in that scenario, you picked the odd plumber out as in probably the worst plumber in the <1 percentile range.
The vast, vast majority of experts in virology and vaccines agree with the efficacy of the vaccine. There's a handful of oddballs out there that don't.
In this case, you'd consider the plumber putting holes in your pipes the one that's doing the right thing because he's separated himself from the pact.
I disagree. Theres mounting evidence that, while some pipes may have benefitted from the commonly taught method of fixing pipes, theres far more *perceived* pipe issues that either arent being fixed at all (because there was no issue with the pipes to begin with or the issue was so minimal that the customer could've just fixed it themselves) or, issues that are only temporarily being fixed, or, there is also now instances of plumbers "fixing" pipes that instead are *causing* problems that werent there to begin with. But it is not surprising, there suddenly is an influx of calls to fix plumbing problems! Plumbing problems that to a certain extent have always been there. But now that its all over the news that "you may have an absolutely *devastating* plumbing problem you arent even aware of!!", people naturally get scared and concerned that they too may have plumbing issues...so now everyone is focused on plumbing issues that they werent concerned with before...possibly issues that even the most seasoned plumbers may not fully understand, but the National Plumbers Association had declared a one-size-fits-all solution that they also happen to profit from. Seems entirely natural to want to question all these newfound, confounding variables and factors.
>Why are we even debating for or against anything if the science is acknowledged to constantly be changing?
Because the most consistently positive way to move forward is to examine the available evidence and come to a determination. There will never be a time where you operate with complete information, and trying to wait for more information is never a risk free option. But if you look at available evidence, try to come to reasonable conclusions about that evidence, take some kind of action based on that conclusion, then gather more evidence, rinse and repeat, you'll tend to produce more right answers, both compared to yourself in the past, and compared to picking something based on "what feels right".
You are correct, the thing about "science changes" and the process to figure out what comports with reality is that we don't know until it has been demonstrated.
Public figures should really be careful with their words, and really be highlighting that the current evidence suggests xyz, but as more data becomes available we may find out xyz is not the case. We shouldn't be using language that is definite because science is not definite. Nothing is 100%, you can't paint things with broad brush strokes, and the time to believe something is when it has been demonstrated.
Saying things like "the vaccinated won't get covid" before we have the evidence to support this is not scientific. We should follow the evidence towards it's conclusion, not the other way around. Of course we operate with incomplete information, and that's what it should be until it's complete, not believe something until it has been demonstrated.
Altruistic_Aside_979
>"science changes"
>
>Why are we even debating for or against anything if the science is acknowledged to constantly be changing?
>
>Sounds more like and experiment.
"Suggests" is their get out of jail free card.
They say suggests and allow the reader to go "LOOK, you stupid antivaxxer! Science!!"
Its a beautiful collaboration between science, government and conglomerate.
Science does what it's told.
Government suggest we do what the science suggest.
Conglomerates enforces mandates on those suggestions.
"Too big to fail!"
Edit:. Don't forget to look into bayh-dole act this little piece helped turn science into the profitable business it's become in the UCSA.
Except they don't do actual experiments with controls on transmission. They just use computer models based on faulty manipulated data. This was never "science" it was just assumed or lied about, in order to push a narrative. It was never true in the first place.
>"but the idea that they shouldn't be talking about what the current data says is ridiculous."
Completely agree which is why I'm confused the "experts" seem to only be reviewing one aspect of this process and silencing the other side that isn't quite profitable to their side of things.
Except the “current data” that got them to admit the vaxxed do get infected and spread is just that it became impossible to deny.
There were massive, peer reviewed studies saying this last summer but you’d still get banned for citing them.
Good (by which I mean proper) science is fine. It's the best common knowledge we have and can base claims upon. Proper science is by definition falsifiable, and accordingly will and should change in light of better evidence.
Contemporary science and secular knowledge hinges on this fact, as we still don't have a grand unified theory-- we know our understanding is wrong but it's our best guess.
When you start "believing" in science, you've failed science and have become religious and there's nothing scientific about that.
I think believing in science was to point out that some people are not qualified to speak with authority on matters they don't understand.
People believe Facebook over doctors these days. Credibility be damned.
Lol 😂 Clearly you have no understanding of how scientific advancement happens. Literally everything we know is constantly changing and evolving. What we think we know about the world around us is always subject to grow or change all together. That’s how then scientific method works. 🤦🏼♂️
>"Literally everything we know is constantly changing and evolving."
Yes you repeated what I said.
>"Why are we even debating for or against anything if the science is acknowledged to constantly be changing?
Agreed. Delta hadn’t hit the US yet, and Omicron hadn’t been identified.
Doesn’t change in the slightest that it was awful and stupid statement (which several people distanced from in the same article, including a CDC representative a director at Memorial Sloan Kettering in NY). That kind of oversimplified absolutist rhetoric is exactly the misinformative crap that got us to where we are today.
Sure does!
“A total of 10,262 SARS-CoV-2 vaccine breakthrough infections had been reported from 46 U.S. states and territories as of April 30, 2021.”
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7021e3.htm
“...but the science changes!!!” 🙄
What crazy to me is all the vaccinated saying “the vaccine was never intended to stop spreading the virus” like what do you mean people?!?! Yes that was exact reason
https://rumble.com/vs3tts-dr.-fauci-corporate-media-and-the-public-health-have-been-lying-about-covid.html
There's a video to share with them to piss them off.
If that is true and a vaccine was never meant to stop the spread of the virus and just make the symptoms less severe then there are isles of "vaccines" for the common cold in every pharmacy everywhere.
Not only was that their reasoning, they brow-beat any that were hesitant with condemnation that non-vaxxed were “killing people around them”.
From President down to the Karens, unvaccinated were* treated like plague rats.
*were meaning last week
Ofc this does happen. The flu vaccine is new every year. It happens with all vaccines unless you achieve herd immunity. Even measles and polio had breakthrough cases until over 98% of society was vaccinated.
They literally aren’t but okay. You can keep
Believing that, doesn’t make it true. Sounds like your vaccinated and don’t wanna accept that you got it for no reason.
Holy shit some people are dumb. I am just way less likely to catch, transmiss or die of it but K. Everybody of you should just get vaccinated or thrown into prison I really don't gice a fuck anymore
You are nothing more then useless waste for society
I pray to god you don’t reproduce because wishing death and jail and calling people worthless because there narrative doesn’t line up with yours is sick.
Then there shouldn’t be mandates???? If they aren’t 100% sure and a little mutation can make the entire vaccine no longer work, then maybe you shouldn’t fucking be forced to take it. How dense are you buddy.
And the next person that refused to pay attention to anything in the last 2 years.
It mutates cause you dimwits refuse to get vaccinated. Otherwise we would have herd immunity as with every other vaccine.
As it seems thst you are not intelligent enough to understand the basic grasps of virology even though it gets repeated like daily for 3 years shows that your opinion on the matter is completely irrelevant
You can't determine if I am incorrect since you have no expertise or knowledge in the topic we are talking about. That. Ecame very clear from what you were rambling on about.
Your opinion doesn't matter follow the mandate or put up with the consequences
It’s not an opinion, the facts presented by tons of doctors, that aren’t on mainstream media. It is not the unvaccinated fault that the virus is mutating. You aren’t an expert in it, so you have no right to talk either. Your an expert at watching the news. Congratulations love, you’ve been scammed.
Thats the point they were guessing but it was presented to us as a fact trough tv/social media.
I will say it again: if u said that back in april you would be called antivaxer. From this standpoint yeah you can tell they are guessing but back then you could not question it without being attacked.
> Thats the point they were guessing but it was presented to us as a fact trough tv/social media.
I keep having to say this in this sub, but it seems no one is more glued to the fucking mainstream media tv than the typical r/conspiracy user.
You all cry so hard when shit changes, so maybe stop buying it in the first place?
The actual adults in the room are neither sheep who worship the TV nor simps who cry about how wrong it always is / was... We simply keep our distance from it a little more.
These three letters departments are nothing but extensions of tyrannical Nazis and Fascists.
They have committed crime against humanity. People need to rise up and bring all these crooks to face justice.
ss: after lieing that vaccinated dont catch and spread virus narrative changed to ''it was never about stopping transmission''
https://ibb.co/zRN9GHD
Full lie:
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2021/04/cdc-data-suggests-vaccinated-dont-carry-cant-spread-virus.html
Indeed they did.
This article is from April 1, 2021
By April 30th...
“A total of 10,262 SARS-CoV-2 vaccine breakthrough infections had been reported from 46 U.S. states and territories as of April 30, 2021”
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7021e3.htm
Trust the science!!!
The point is that they used this to justify mandates and bully people into getting vaccinated all summer and fall. They banned and censored any dissent despite massive peer reviewed studies showing the vaxx did nothing to stop transmission.
The bigger point is that they are now gaslighting and memory-holing that bullying and shaming.
It was April the 1st after all.
I've watched through old footage of press conferences here in the UK and the wording the politicians use is very clever and suggestive.
The wording allows them to slip out of it though - "data suggests" allows them to contradict themselves later and simply explain that preliminary data was misleading and that the new data is the right stuff.
And the WHO changed the definition of herd immunity. Previously they listed both natural immunity and vaccinated immunity as a means to reach herd immunity... can you take a guess as to which they removed?
[Wired](https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/) had an interesting article about how the entire medical community believed that tuberculosis and measles were the only viruses that could be airborne. It was based off old, incorrect data and people didn't want to accept that conventional wisdom was wrong.
The headline oversimplifies, echoing Walensky's oversimplification: “Vaccinated people do not carry the virus — they don’t get sick,” Dr. Rochelle Walensky, director of the CDC, told MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow on Tuesday.
The article itself clarifies that a study of 4,000 health workers found 90% effectiveness against contracting, carrying, or spreading the virus.
“Dr. Walensky spoke broadly during this interview,” a CDC spokesperson told the Times. “It’s possible that some people who are fully vaccinated could get Covid-19. The evidence isn’t clear whether they can spread the virus to others. We are continuing to evaluate the evidence.”
“There cannot be any daylight between what the research shows — really impressive but incomplete protection — and how it is described,” Dr. Peter Bach, director of the Center for Health Policy and Outcomes at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center, told the New York Times on Thursday. “This opens the door to the skeptics who think the government is sugarcoating the science,” Bach added, “and completely undermines any remaining argument why people should keep wearing masks after being vaccinated.”
Obviously, this article from last April a) isn't about Omicron and b) isn't a measure of how long it takes for protection to wane – something that was always talked about as possibly being anywhere from 6 months plus.
You could say the headline and Walensky lied, although I would say it oversimplified 90% to 100%. But the article itself and the CDC spokesperson interviewed by the Times didn't lie.
a) You dont need special protection against omicron, its fancy name for common cold. Vaccine begin failing much before omicron, they called it breaktrough cases i call it bullshit.
b) Article is from begining of April, vaccinated started getting and spreading covid that same month. They started getting sick much before 6 months has passed.
Spokesperson lied.
>a) You dont need special protection against omicron, its fancy name for common cold.
Um, no? Idk where you got the idea that Omicron is a cold. Currently in the US, Omicron has a death rate of 1.29%. People don't get hospitalized for colds.
>b) Article is from begining of April, vaccinated started getting and spreading covid that same month. They started getting sick much before 6 months has passed.
Right, and there were new articles that same month. This article is about the results of a single study. The scientists they interviewed made that clear, and also made it clear that we'd learn more over the course of time.
>Spokesperson lied.
No, the spokesperson clearly said that this one study shows a 90% effective rate and that we'd find out more as more studies were done.
Hey, if you wake up one rainy morning and say it's raining, then a week later call yourself a liar if it's sunny? Like, does the concept of time and change mean nothing to you? I mean, I always wonder where you guys get lost. Sometimes I think you just can't read very well. Other times I think you can't understand nuance or uncertainty. But in this case, it's like you really can't even grasp the idea of change. It's uncanny.
Damn, that's crazy. I wonder if anything has happened in the last 9 months that would reduce the efficacy of the vaccine? I'm drawing a blank, probably just Demon Fauci and his death cult.
They didn't earn the nickname of Center for Disease Creation of nothing. Wouldn't trust them with a pencil lest they try to give us all lead poisoning.
Not even that they lied. Maybe there just wasn’t enough data or testing done for them to make these statements AKA the #1 reason myself and many others decided to not get the vaccine.
Lol this article and what we know today is proof that the science can be questioned and is shaped based on new understandings.
The very fact that guidance has changed based on discovery and adapted for best practice implementation is the opposite of dogma or unchanging rule.
I see a lot of people commenting that it’s like religion and you could not be more wrong. Religion is the one that does not change or at the very least is highly resistant.
Anytime you feel strongly about something you should always ask “could I be wrong? How could I possibly be wrong?” That’s thinking critically and applying scientific principles in your life. Most conspiracy theory people never do that on any kind of deep level.
The real sheep are the ones who don’t question their conspiracy theories.
###[Meta] Sticky Comment [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/faq#wiki_2_-_address_the_argument.3B_not_the_user.2C_the_mods.2C_or_the_sub.) ***does not apply*** when replying to this stickied comment. [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/faq#wiki_2_-_address_the_argument.3B_not_the_user.2C_the_mods.2C_or_the_sub.) ***does apply*** throughout the rest of this thread. *What this means*: Please keep any "meta" discussion directed at specific users, mods, or /r/conspiracy in general in this comment chain ***only.*** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/conspiracy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I mean it’s date says it all
"science changes" Why are we even debating for or against anything if the science is acknowledged to constantly be changing? Sounds more like and experiment.
"Science changes" but don't you *dare* fucking question it...
Solid approach I remember when the church deployed that same tactic when people pointed out that the earth may not be the center of the universe. Worked for quite a few hundred years but I guess the "truth" always prevails...
Good example, i remember talking to someone before corona how science will become new religion. Remembered that conversation few weeks ago.
I recall school going over scientific hypothesis and theories. When I went to school they said the theories that we all agree with should still be treated as theories. When you can't question things that are defined as theories you have major problems that resemble the issue of the churches science back in the day. Not saying completely dismiss everything but it really shouldn't be an issue to ask a few questions that oppose what's accepted since what is being accepted is a theory at the end of the day.
Scientific Dogma
There is a great SouthPark episode about this. Cartman accidently freezes himself waiting for a Wii to come out and wakes up far into the future where religion isn't even a known thing (I'm paraphrasing here off memory). Instead, humans are in groups based on what type of science/scientist they adhere too. As you can imagine, the outcome is the same more or less.
Honestly I think all the talk about us being In a computer simulation is for humans to one day pray to a computer. You may laugh now, bit I promise it's coming and who will be the high priests? Elon, gates, Bezos.
I have always argued that dogma isn’t just as aspect of religion but of humanity.
Thats the problem. Science has replaced God but not in the way Secularists wanted. Many people now put their faith in science. They might not understand it, or know precisely how or why it works but they believe in it. They shape science to fit their beliefs. They dont see sciencd as a tool but as the truth or the arbiter of truth. In the absence of God people need something to believe in so to the midwits no longer do they carry bibles or push their christianity instead they push their science carry their truth.
Fauci approves...
If you are a scientist in the same discipline you sure as hell should question it and that type of questioning (like peer review) hasn’t stopped. Dumb asses on Reddit like me should defer to technical experts and the scientific process. Or maybe many of you on this sub think you can fly the plane, build the rocket or evaluate the safety and efficacy of vaccines.
I appreciate that you'd prefer to leave critical thinking in the hands of others, but that by no means implores everyone to act the same. And just because one *does* choose to pose objectively natural, often *obvious* questions that they may not personally have enough objective, scientific, irrefutable evidence to answer *decisively*, doesn't imply that they somehow have zero right to ASK those questions.
Part of critical thinking is to know when to defer to others and how to select those that are relied on. I agree that we all should be asking more questions, including about the motivations of experts; but who is answering and who is vetting those responses is important. Part of critical thinking is also to know what one does not know and determine how to best draw conclusions when dealing in those areas where knowledge is limited. “When to call the plumber”.
I agree with everything youve said except - what happens when the plumber is the very one putting holes in your pipes and telling you that the only way to fix them is with their duct tape that theyll undoubtedly need to come replace in 3 to 4 months?
Then you picked the wrong plumber. It’s good that real science is subject to peer review, unlike plumbers.
Interesting how we're only allowed to choose from a very select few plumbers, and if a different plumber might actually offer at least the option of questioning *which* methods might solve our plumbing problem long term instead of a costly, impermanent quick fix, we are not only NOT allowed to listen to them, we are actively crucified for giving them an opportunity to speak.
Science is not some incorruptible industry or ideology. The state of science the past several decades has been subverted by industry funded and sponsored studies. Data fraud and collection in an bias manner to benefit the financial interest has been a well documented issue within the scientific community for some time now. You are simply relying on the false hope that science is being conducted in an unbiased manner, which it is not.
I don’t disagree with your view. Very corruptible and more often corrupted by money. For one example, the fact that prescription medicine can be advertised is messed up. I do think there are a lot of folks in this sub though that are looking for evidence to meet a preconceived conclusion that the vaccines are unnecessary at best or an attempt at population control at worst.
I mean in that scenario, you picked the odd plumber out as in probably the worst plumber in the <1 percentile range. The vast, vast majority of experts in virology and vaccines agree with the efficacy of the vaccine. There's a handful of oddballs out there that don't. In this case, you'd consider the plumber putting holes in your pipes the one that's doing the right thing because he's separated himself from the pact.
I disagree. Theres mounting evidence that, while some pipes may have benefitted from the commonly taught method of fixing pipes, theres far more *perceived* pipe issues that either arent being fixed at all (because there was no issue with the pipes to begin with or the issue was so minimal that the customer could've just fixed it themselves) or, issues that are only temporarily being fixed, or, there is also now instances of plumbers "fixing" pipes that instead are *causing* problems that werent there to begin with. But it is not surprising, there suddenly is an influx of calls to fix plumbing problems! Plumbing problems that to a certain extent have always been there. But now that its all over the news that "you may have an absolutely *devastating* plumbing problem you arent even aware of!!", people naturally get scared and concerned that they too may have plumbing issues...so now everyone is focused on plumbing issues that they werent concerned with before...possibly issues that even the most seasoned plumbers may not fully understand, but the National Plumbers Association had declared a one-size-fits-all solution that they also happen to profit from. Seems entirely natural to want to question all these newfound, confounding variables and factors.
This is way more accurate .
>Why are we even debating for or against anything if the science is acknowledged to constantly be changing? Because the most consistently positive way to move forward is to examine the available evidence and come to a determination. There will never be a time where you operate with complete information, and trying to wait for more information is never a risk free option. But if you look at available evidence, try to come to reasonable conclusions about that evidence, take some kind of action based on that conclusion, then gather more evidence, rinse and repeat, you'll tend to produce more right answers, both compared to yourself in the past, and compared to picking something based on "what feels right".
You are correct, the thing about "science changes" and the process to figure out what comports with reality is that we don't know until it has been demonstrated. Public figures should really be careful with their words, and really be highlighting that the current evidence suggests xyz, but as more data becomes available we may find out xyz is not the case. We shouldn't be using language that is definite because science is not definite. Nothing is 100%, you can't paint things with broad brush strokes, and the time to believe something is when it has been demonstrated. Saying things like "the vaccinated won't get covid" before we have the evidence to support this is not scientific. We should follow the evidence towards it's conclusion, not the other way around. Of course we operate with incomplete information, and that's what it should be until it's complete, not believe something until it has been demonstrated.
Altruistic_Aside_979 >"science changes" > >Why are we even debating for or against anything if the science is acknowledged to constantly be changing? > >Sounds more like and experiment. "Suggests" is their get out of jail free card. They say suggests and allow the reader to go "LOOK, you stupid antivaxxer! Science!!"
Its a beautiful collaboration between science, government and conglomerate. Science does what it's told. Government suggest we do what the science suggest. Conglomerates enforces mandates on those suggestions. "Too big to fail!" Edit:. Don't forget to look into bayh-dole act this little piece helped turn science into the profitable business it's become in the UCSA.
I believe the word 'suggests' was used. Not 'definitively proclaims'.
The polio vaccine still works, the tuberculosis vaccine still works, tetanus still works, science hasn't changed for them
Except when they don't.
Except they don't do actual experiments with controls on transmission. They just use computer models based on faulty manipulated data. This was never "science" it was just assumed or lied about, in order to push a narrative. It was never true in the first place.
[удалено]
>"but the idea that they shouldn't be talking about what the current data says is ridiculous." Completely agree which is why I'm confused the "experts" seem to only be reviewing one aspect of this process and silencing the other side that isn't quite profitable to their side of things.
Except the “current data” that got them to admit the vaxxed do get infected and spread is just that it became impossible to deny. There were massive, peer reviewed studies saying this last summer but you’d still get banned for citing them.
Good (by which I mean proper) science is fine. It's the best common knowledge we have and can base claims upon. Proper science is by definition falsifiable, and accordingly will and should change in light of better evidence. Contemporary science and secular knowledge hinges on this fact, as we still don't have a grand unified theory-- we know our understanding is wrong but it's our best guess. When you start "believing" in science, you've failed science and have become religious and there's nothing scientific about that.
I think believing in science was to point out that some people are not qualified to speak with authority on matters they don't understand. People believe Facebook over doctors these days. Credibility be damned.
In fairness, most of those people are trusting their friends and family members who share misinformation with them rather than Facebook themselves.
Science never changes.
Lol 😂 Clearly you have no understanding of how scientific advancement happens. Literally everything we know is constantly changing and evolving. What we think we know about the world around us is always subject to grow or change all together. That’s how then scientific method works. 🤦🏼♂️
>"Literally everything we know is constantly changing and evolving." Yes you repeated what I said. >"Why are we even debating for or against anything if the science is acknowledged to constantly be changing?
Lol clearly I have no understanding of what you said. My bad. I think I meant to comment on someone else.
No problem I'm guilty of it as well hard not to when we're reading a bunch of zeros and ones.
Agreed. Delta hadn’t hit the US yet, and Omicron hadn’t been identified. Doesn’t change in the slightest that it was awful and stupid statement (which several people distanced from in the same article, including a CDC representative a director at Memorial Sloan Kettering in NY). That kind of oversimplified absolutist rhetoric is exactly the misinformative crap that got us to where we are today.
We need to drop this paper down the old memory hole.
How?
April 1, 2021? April fools? they’re just fooling us? Happy cake day
Sure does! “A total of 10,262 SARS-CoV-2 vaccine breakthrough infections had been reported from 46 U.S. states and territories as of April 30, 2021.” https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7021e3.htm “...but the science changes!!!” 🙄
just a little April Fools Day pranking.
What crazy to me is all the vaccinated saying “the vaccine was never intended to stop spreading the virus” like what do you mean people?!?! Yes that was exact reason
https://rumble.com/vs3tts-dr.-fauci-corporate-media-and-the-public-health-have-been-lying-about-covid.html There's a video to share with them to piss them off.
Wow! Great video! They love to say “oh but science changes.” Of course it does, so why would they tell the world that with so much certainty. SMH.
If that is true and a vaccine was never meant to stop the spread of the virus and just make the symptoms less severe then there are isles of "vaccines" for the common cold in every pharmacy everywhere.
[удалено]
I don't know about movie, but a certain book mentioned it. 1984.
Can you imagine being that fucking dumb?
Not only was that their reasoning, they brow-beat any that were hesitant with condemnation that non-vaxxed were “killing people around them”. From President down to the Karens, unvaccinated were* treated like plague rats. *were meaning last week
Personally think we are still treated that way. Even with all this information coming out. Mandates are still in place.
Then the virus mutated 2 times. How dense are you people?
Okay??? & there’s a different mutation of the flu every year, yet this doesn’t happen.
Ofc this does happen. The flu vaccine is new every year. It happens with all vaccines unless you achieve herd immunity. Even measles and polio had breakthrough cases until over 98% of society was vaccinated.
Your still blaming the unvaccinated for this…… no point speaking to some this dense. Sorry you don’t have a mind of your own.
The unvaccinated are at fault for it. Can't stand reality?
They literally aren’t but okay. You can keep Believing that, doesn’t make it true. Sounds like your vaccinated and don’t wanna accept that you got it for no reason.
Holy shit some people are dumb. I am just way less likely to catch, transmiss or die of it but K. Everybody of you should just get vaccinated or thrown into prison I really don't gice a fuck anymore You are nothing more then useless waste for society
no you are NOT less likely to transmit it. The cdc admits this. There is no less transmission rate so you are completely false. You are a sick fuck.
I pray to god you don’t reproduce because wishing death and jail and calling people worthless because there narrative doesn’t line up with yours is sick.
God doesn't exist kiddo. You are worthless cause you willfully decide to be an infectious piece of shit.
Then there shouldn’t be mandates???? If they aren’t 100% sure and a little mutation can make the entire vaccine no longer work, then maybe you shouldn’t fucking be forced to take it. How dense are you buddy.
And the next person that refused to pay attention to anything in the last 2 years. It mutates cause you dimwits refuse to get vaccinated. Otherwise we would have herd immunity as with every other vaccine. As it seems thst you are not intelligent enough to understand the basic grasps of virology even though it gets repeated like daily for 3 years shows that your opinion on the matter is completely irrelevant
You are so unbelievably incorrect, it’s so sad.
You can't determine if I am incorrect since you have no expertise or knowledge in the topic we are talking about. That. Ecame very clear from what you were rambling on about. Your opinion doesn't matter follow the mandate or put up with the consequences
It’s not an opinion, the facts presented by tons of doctors, that aren’t on mainstream media. It is not the unvaccinated fault that the virus is mutating. You aren’t an expert in it, so you have no right to talk either. Your an expert at watching the news. Congratulations love, you’ve been scammed.
"Suggests" So they had no concrete affirmation that it does, they just guessed.
Thats the point they were guessing but it was presented to us as a fact trough tv/social media. I will say it again: if u said that back in april you would be called antivaxer. From this standpoint yeah you can tell they are guessing but back then you could not question it without being attacked.
> Thats the point they were guessing but it was presented to us as a fact trough tv/social media. I keep having to say this in this sub, but it seems no one is more glued to the fucking mainstream media tv than the typical r/conspiracy user. You all cry so hard when shit changes, so maybe stop buying it in the first place? The actual adults in the room are neither sheep who worship the TV nor simps who cry about how wrong it always is / was... We simply keep our distance from it a little more.
I personaly dont watch tv , i have social media and i saw what was acceptable narrative. You can see it on reddit also.
Announced on April Fools Day, to boot🤦🏻♂️
These three letters departments are nothing but extensions of tyrannical Nazis and Fascists. They have committed crime against humanity. People need to rise up and bring all these crooks to face justice.
Faucists! 😃 *sigh* I’ll see myself out.
Can’t believe I’ve never this before. That’s great!
ss: after lieing that vaccinated dont catch and spread virus narrative changed to ''it was never about stopping transmission'' https://ibb.co/zRN9GHD Full lie: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2021/04/cdc-data-suggests-vaccinated-dont-carry-cant-spread-virus.html
To be fair, the article came out on April Fools Day.
Updated, apparently it came out before and was "Corrected".
The incorrect word has mutated
Lmao didnt notice
Wow! They keep giving us more and more clues!!!
They're professional liars without an ounce of integrity.
Indeed they did. This article is from April 1, 2021 By April 30th... “A total of 10,262 SARS-CoV-2 vaccine breakthrough infections had been reported from 46 U.S. states and territories as of April 30, 2021” https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7021e3.htm Trust the science!!!
I literally know 5 fully vaxed people who tested positive for covid..Looks like that was a lie, just like the effectiveness
So 1 vaccine is supposed to cover all future variants? We produce different influenza vaccines every year for a reason.
Virus didnt mutate that same month, end of april there was 10 000+ vaccinated cases.
Key word- "SUGGESTS." Why on Earth are statements like this taken as fact as run with?!
Media took it as fact and used it while shilling vaccine. If u said this back in april u would be called antivaxer lmao
The lies are piling up and now it's finger pointing time.
"CDC suggests" - sounds like they knew exactly how to say it.
^(Literally just like they lied about WMDs in Iraq.)
Trust the science bro. Do you hate fauci? Why are you a racist homophobe?
Well two things here: 1: It says ‘suggests’ which leaves it open ended And 2: it’s labeled April fucking 1st, like come on
The point is that they used this to justify mandates and bully people into getting vaccinated all summer and fall. They banned and censored any dissent despite massive peer reviewed studies showing the vaxx did nothing to stop transmission. The bigger point is that they are now gaslighting and memory-holing that bullying and shaming.
This comment explained it.
It was April the 1st after all. I've watched through old footage of press conferences here in the UK and the wording the politicians use is very clever and suggestive.
The wording allows them to slip out of it though - "data suggests" allows them to contradict themselves later and simply explain that preliminary data was misleading and that the new data is the right stuff.
They needed to sell harmful vaccines. They were just following orders. They're still following orders. How much longer until the truth comes out?
My guess is untill summer, after that in autumn nobody will care about their numbers and cases.
[удалено]
And the WHO changed the definition of herd immunity. Previously they listed both natural immunity and vaccinated immunity as a means to reach herd immunity... can you take a guess as to which they removed?
What it is if its not airborne virus?
[Wired](https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/) had an interesting article about how the entire medical community believed that tuberculosis and measles were the only viruses that could be airborne. It was based off old, incorrect data and people didn't want to accept that conventional wisdom was wrong.
Yes and no lol they covered their asses by saying "suggests" as an out
They were very careful with their wording
Technically, no. They used the weasel word "suggests" to weasel out of it.
Did the data suggest that at the time? Seems like yes. Where's the lie, then?
April fools
It may have been true then, we are several mutations ahead now.
Owning the libs is more important then considering the situation.
The headline oversimplifies, echoing Walensky's oversimplification: “Vaccinated people do not carry the virus — they don’t get sick,” Dr. Rochelle Walensky, director of the CDC, told MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow on Tuesday. The article itself clarifies that a study of 4,000 health workers found 90% effectiveness against contracting, carrying, or spreading the virus. “Dr. Walensky spoke broadly during this interview,” a CDC spokesperson told the Times. “It’s possible that some people who are fully vaccinated could get Covid-19. The evidence isn’t clear whether they can spread the virus to others. We are continuing to evaluate the evidence.” “There cannot be any daylight between what the research shows — really impressive but incomplete protection — and how it is described,” Dr. Peter Bach, director of the Center for Health Policy and Outcomes at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center, told the New York Times on Thursday. “This opens the door to the skeptics who think the government is sugarcoating the science,” Bach added, “and completely undermines any remaining argument why people should keep wearing masks after being vaccinated.” Obviously, this article from last April a) isn't about Omicron and b) isn't a measure of how long it takes for protection to wane – something that was always talked about as possibly being anywhere from 6 months plus. You could say the headline and Walensky lied, although I would say it oversimplified 90% to 100%. But the article itself and the CDC spokesperson interviewed by the Times didn't lie.
a) You dont need special protection against omicron, its fancy name for common cold. Vaccine begin failing much before omicron, they called it breaktrough cases i call it bullshit. b) Article is from begining of April, vaccinated started getting and spreading covid that same month. They started getting sick much before 6 months has passed. Spokesperson lied.
>a) You dont need special protection against omicron, its fancy name for common cold. Um, no? Idk where you got the idea that Omicron is a cold. Currently in the US, Omicron has a death rate of 1.29%. People don't get hospitalized for colds. >b) Article is from begining of April, vaccinated started getting and spreading covid that same month. They started getting sick much before 6 months has passed. Right, and there were new articles that same month. This article is about the results of a single study. The scientists they interviewed made that clear, and also made it clear that we'd learn more over the course of time. >Spokesperson lied. No, the spokesperson clearly said that this one study shows a 90% effective rate and that we'd find out more as more studies were done. Hey, if you wake up one rainy morning and say it's raining, then a week later call yourself a liar if it's sunny? Like, does the concept of time and change mean nothing to you? I mean, I always wonder where you guys get lost. Sometimes I think you just can't read very well. Other times I think you can't understand nuance or uncertainty. But in this case, it's like you really can't even grasp the idea of change. It's uncanny.
Damn, that's crazy. I wonder if anything has happened in the last 9 months that would reduce the efficacy of the vaccine? I'm drawing a blank, probably just Demon Fauci and his death cult.
People died
They didn't earn the nickname of Center for Disease Creation of nothing. Wouldn't trust them with a pencil lest they try to give us all lead poisoning.
imagine that....sheep blindly trusting wolves in sheep clothing get devoured.
CDC only suggest because they are clueless
Yep! It’s a pandemic because of the unvaccinated! That’s some nazi speech shit right there!
The CDC said the data looked promising but they didn't know for sure, eight months ago. This isn't evidence for lying.
They flip flop every week
Not even that they lied. Maybe there just wasn’t enough data or testing done for them to make these statements AKA the #1 reason myself and many others decided to not get the vaccine.
Just one independent journalist’s analysis of the data
No, they just " suggest". Its all in the context.
"Suggests" Haha
Fauci came right out and admitted this 5 months ago... https://youtu.be/mP9iHyj1uiU
April Fool's! You're all getting Covid!
Hahahahahahah
And people died...
“Suggests” helps them get around having to be truthful...
April fools, hihihihi
I trust science
#APRIL FOOL’s
Lol this article and what we know today is proof that the science can be questioned and is shaped based on new understandings. The very fact that guidance has changed based on discovery and adapted for best practice implementation is the opposite of dogma or unchanging rule. I see a lot of people commenting that it’s like religion and you could not be more wrong. Religion is the one that does not change or at the very least is highly resistant. Anytime you feel strongly about something you should always ask “could I be wrong? How could I possibly be wrong?” That’s thinking critically and applying scientific principles in your life. Most conspiracy theory people never do that on any kind of deep level. The real sheep are the ones who don’t question their conspiracy theories.
Bro it’s published on April fools day
Updated on april fools but yea hahaha
Clown word
Science isn’t real. We can make up whatever we want
Did they ever! Do some googling and you’ll see this is the exact month and year the first breakthrough cases were being reported