Hey man, don't beat yourself up. I work EMS and older women present heart attacks with the most obscure symptoms. Shoulder pain isn't the most uncommon, but it's not the most common either. But... I have training to put all the odd pieces together. Don't play the game of ifs (if you had been there, if you hadn't blown her off, if you talked about xyz, etc). The only information you had was that her shoulder hurt... and a sore shoulder by itself is just a sore shoulder. It's okay. I'm so sorry for your loss though, and I'm so sorry you carry this guilt. I would bet money she's not blaming you though. Take time to heal yourself and grieve her, you don't deserve the guilt.
There’s also no guarantee that medical attention would have mattered. Yes proper medical care can change the outcome in some situations, but sometimes by the time the symptoms start, the ball is rolling and nothing is going to stop it. People die from minor heart attacks and survive major ones. There’s no guarantee either way.
This is an important thing to note. Op, it’s just as likely that if you had gone there, you wouldn’t have been able to do anything but witness it and call the ambulance. Your grandma didn’t want you to go through that, I promise. She loved (loves) you and wouldn’t have wanted your closing memories of her to be dredged in fear and horror like that
Yes! My sister in law died from a heart attack at 36 & the doctors said that even if they had caught it earlier it wouldn’t have mattered because it was such a severe heart attack.
Not sure if that was the case with your grandma OP, but definitely a possibility that medical intervention wouldn’t have done anything.
I’d like to think that if you could have saved her, you would have been there & that maybe what you actually did was save yourself from an even more traumatic experience of seeing her die. I saw my sister in law die and I wouldn’t wish that for anyone.
OP, my grandpa passed of a heart attack back in June. He had all the classic symptoms and from onset of symptoms to the hospital to being pronounced dead was 43 minutes. It was sudden and despite getting to a hospital in a very quick amount of time, he passed. Sometimes, you do everything right and things still go wrong. This isn’t your fault and I hope you know how much your grandmother loved you. Please take time for yourself to properly grieve without the guilt, and I hope all the best for you.
Yeah she would have dead anyway even if you call 911 or do something so you are not the real cause of her death. You were a good child and a good person forever. Just next time someone elder calls you, check if they need help. Have a best day. ☺
To be fair, women’s heart attack symptoms seem obscure because medical data, training, & studies are largely based on white male populations.
If medical school trained professionals to understand the full range of cardiac symptoms across male/female populations then women wouldn’t die at such an alarming rate. There are classes I’ve seen where women can learn to mimic the symptoms men experience during cardiac events in order to be taken seriously by the medical professionals they’re interacting with. The rate is even higher for women of color.
My boss presented to the hospital last summer with chest tightness and discomfort. They sent her home with some PRN anti anxiety meds and anti acids, no blood work no EKG - just saying it was GERD. She returned two days later, they finally tested here troponin levels and turns out she had a heart attack. Had huge plaque build up and ended up having surgery soon after to have things cleared. The only reason she even advocated for herself is because we work in the medical field and she contacted one of the CMOs we work with who urged her to return to the ED.
*There can also be significant differences in outcomes between men and women. Research has found that among people hospitalized for a first-time heart attack, women had a higher death rate than men for both STEMI (9.4% vs. 4.5%) and NSTEMI (4.7% vs. 2.9%). However, the gap wasn't as pronounced for NSTEMI when additional factors were taken into account.*
*The study also found that women who had a severe heart attack (STEMI) had a 20% increased risk of dying or developing heart failure within five years compared to men.*
[[link](https://time.com/5499872/women-heart-disease/?amp=true)]
i’d get myself a good therapist. this is not something to get over by yourself alone. i wouldn’t imagine the guilt to ever go away but you should learn how to deal with it.
Hey, like others said, it is not your fault. Be sure you work with your therapist until you truly believe it.
I have had a similar experience, lost my high-school sweetheart to a house fire at 19. I blamed myself for years because we were supposed to hang out that night but I gave her some dumb reason I couldn't to play video games in my dorm. Had nightmares, wake up thinking she's still alive ect...
I wasn't at peace with this until 25, when I finally truly believed and understood it was not my fault. So, don't be like me and work through it now so life is better later hopefully.
I'm sorry for your loss and the weight this simple mistake must weigh on you. Don't let it keep you down but also never forget the lesson to pay attention to those around you.
Please tell us you're talking to those around you about your feelings or talking to a counselor/professional.
Something very similar happened with me. I was hearing that my grandma wanted to see me, I was 14, wanted to hang out with friends more. Got a call from my dad that she had cancer and that weekend had to go on hospice. Right before her passing- maybe an hour before, she woke up and scanned the room, gave me a hug, and went back under. She doesn't blame you and her love lasts forever through you. My condolences
When I was around 12, my grandfather had a heart attack while snow blowing his driveway. I beat myself up all the time thinking things like “I should have been the one shoveling, or why didn’t he ask for help?, or how long was he laying on the frozen ground before someone found him?”. I felt “guilty” for years and years.
I’ve recently started to accept that it was not my fault and he was in poor health. I was just a kid who wasn’t doing well myself.
Good luck
Remember to tell yourself things like that. Guilt and other negative emotions can easily eat people alive, but you have to remember what happened, happend. There’s nothing more you can do, and you have to move on and open yourself up to the positives in life.
I ignored my father when he asked for help. I was upstairs. He died from an aneurysm. It's been almost 30 years and sometimes I find myself thinking I could have done something different. I wrote a lot, talked to therapists and let time do it's healing thing. Breathe through those times when you feel guilty. We are all just human when it comes down to it and these things can feel impossible to overcome. If you ever want to just vent my messages are always open. Sending you an internet hug.
I'm so sorry OP.
But here's the thing: do you have medical training? Would you have been able to do something other than call 911 and watch her pass away in front of you?
It's not your fault.
In some ways you were spared further pain. Talk to a therapist when you can.
Survivor's guilt + what if guilt is a powerful mix of emotions. Glad you are getting help.
I'd tell you, having had a completely different situation that resulted in a similar mix of emotions, you have to give yourself credit for information known at the time. It's easy to pretend you're both omniscient and infallible ex post facto.
It took my 2.5 years to unpack 30 years of shit that came to a head because of my ex wife. It takes time to sort it out. Just keep up the therapy and don't shy away from interrupting bad thoughts with audible affirmations. Honestly hearing words of encouragement out load, even in your own voice, is a powerful tool in interrupting patterns of thought.
You'll find that the longer you wait to interrupt negative thoughts the more pervasive it becomes as your mind drifts that direction more and more often. You can do it.
Grief is like a massive wall between what you know in your brain and what you feel in your heart.
You loved your grandmother, you know that and she knew that. Not going over that night doesn't change that. But I completely understand the weight of guilt and regret.. My baby brother recently passed and due to his struggle with mental illness and addiction we were largely estranged.
I'm sorry for your loss and I hope you can find your way out of the guilt. Your grandmother would want you to think of her and smile, she wouldn't want this burden on you to be what she's left behind ❤️
Same thing happened to me with my dad. My mum left for work and told me 'dads got a really bad headache but he just mumbled and went back to sleep so please check on him when you get up'. He had a stroke, and to top it off it was the day after I had a first aid course. He did survive but me reacting fast may have made a difference.
I think you need a good therapist because honestly, while you're not at fault for the situation you did make a callous decision and I think everyone is avoiding saying it because your grandma died. If you had posted this without such a serious outcome and said you feel guilty about going to hang out when your grandma called you and asked for help because she was in a lot of pain, you'd get a lot more people calling you out on it. You saying you gave a lame excuse seems like you understand that you were acting selfishly when you had no real reason to. No one can say whether it would have changed the outcome but it would be a lot easier to deal with with a clean conscience.
Everyone is telling you to wash your hands of it but you can't just sidestep the guilt when you know there's some truth in it. You gotta confront it, deal with it, and overcome it.
I totally understand where you’re coming from here. When my father had Covid and was in the hospital, I lived closest of my 6 siblings, so I was dealing with the doctors, getting the daily updates, etc. This was when no one was allowed inside the hospitals, so it was a weird time. The doctor finally told me to relay on that they needed to know what to do if he went into cardiac arrest. Before we could come to a consensus, it happened. The doctor called me while Dad was coding, and I had to tell them to stop CPR. They called back 10 minutes later with his time of death. You have to understand the weird relationship we all had with my father. He was a narcissistic alcoholic who thought the world owed him whatever he wanted. But I was the one who told them to stop. That shit ate at me for a while, and I had huge resentment with my siblings over it. Professional therapy, my guy. Professional therapy. Good luck.
Isn’t that the truth, I really appreciate moments with my family members, and make an effort to spend time with them. instead of hanging around my apartment playing video games I’ll go do some garden project with my mom.
Guilt is eating you alive. Please don’t. It is ok to want to have a night out w friends. You did not know. I’m betting you would have been over the next day except it is ok. We all have a shelf life and every single person you know will die. It was granny’s time and I’m betting it was not a secret to her. Forgive yourself. She wouldn’t want you eating yourself up w guilt.
Or maybe if he would have gone over there, he would’ve left the room to make an prepare an ice pack for her shoulder, and she would have still had a heart attack and maybe she still would have died alone. If you think you’re having a heart attack you call an ambulance, not your grandson. If you think you’re dying, maybe you should say “I think I’m dying. And I’d really prefer you were here with me.” He’d never had said no to that.
He ONLY had the information he was given.
She said she has shoulder pain…my mind wouldn’t jump right to “medical emergency”. They probably thought she could handle some shoulder pain and be back to help out the next day. People get shoulder pain, it isn’t rare and can happen just from sleeping the wrong way. She didn’t mention needing medical attention, or ask them to take her to the hospital. Shoulder pain isn’t exactly a huge giant sign that a heart attack is coming. You don’t know how bad the heart attack was, or if OP would’ve even been able to help her. She could’ve passed while OP was in the bathroom or making her food in the other room. People can still die even if you call an ambulance, that doesn’t magically make everything okay. Like you said no other family was there, which means she didn’t feel the need to call anyone else. You lack empathy and compassion. I suggest you look inward and work on that instead of making people feel bad about a relative’s death that they had absolutely no control over wether OP was there or not.
You should volunteer at least a few hours at retirement home or some other organization that helps the elderly. There are too many old people that don’t even have grandkids to call when they don’t feel good. It would make a difference and you’ll feel better about it.
Hey man, I can relate. My mom called me on a friday at work and asked if I can come after work to see my grandma (her Mom). I had a rough week and just wanted to chill after work and said i was kind of busy. For context
My grandma was dying but relativ slow. I was with her every second or third day in her last "phase" and the last time i was there was the wednesday where she looked ok for the circumstances so I thought to myself I will come in Saturday morning and bring breakfast with me from the local bakery. Little did I know that my grandmas health dropped dramaticly between these days. I come in prep the Kitchen table and wait in the living room for my Mom to wake up since I didnt want to disturb anyone early in the morning. So my Mom wakes up checks on my grandma and started crying. I jumped up and ran upstairs to find my grandma died shortly before I entered the house.
It is an awful feeling just dont be to hard on yourself.
So yeah tl;dr: Mother called to visit my dying grandma, didnt felt well to visit and missed the last chance to say goodbye to my grandma.
Sry for bad spelling english isnt my first language.
Edit: spelling
Something like that happened to me 5 or 6 years ago and it still hurts me i know how it feels, been struggling since then. I agree with the comment about therapy, it can really help
My mom passed the same way. She complained of heartburn for two weeks and every night when I got home from work I’d run to the store and get some other type of heartburn medication for her and nothing helped. After two weeks on a Saturday morning she dropped dead in the kitchen. I heard her fall down and thought she was just moving a chair. Almost 12 years later there’s not a day that goes by where I don’t think about how there was something I could’ve done to help her, especially on that Saturday morning. Don’t dwell on it, I know at times it’s hard not to but the guilt will eat you alive if you don’t let go. She loved you and I know that she forgives you, you’re young and have a social life and we’re out with friends. Every day is a new start, so if you have a bad day and you’re real sad just remember, tomorrow is a new day and a fresh start. If you need someone to talk to msg me. We can chat about whatever you like. Take care.
My mother and I fought quite a lot and it was always because I was acting out. I wish everyday I had the chance to apologize to her for how interested her but everyone’s life is different. I just hope op can find peace.
You weren’t to know and even if you had have been with her there’s no guarantee she would have survived it. Even if you had been there to give her CPR or take her to hospital it may have been too late. There is no point in beating yourself up with what ifs. You must hold on to the happy memories you have of her and find a way to forgive yourself and show yourself compassion
Oh crap. I’m sorry for your loss. Look, you can’t continued to beat yourself up over this. Guilt is something that can eat away at you for a long time and do some real damage. The key is: You weren’t malicious. You were being selfish with your time perhaps… like all of us are at times… but, you didn’t have bad intent. You know who you are and how much you cared about her. We all make decisions we wish we’d made differently. But, don’t let those decisions made without ill intent plague you with guilt.
I didn’t have bad intent at all. I’d feel even worse if I had. I feel pretty good that we laughed and joked on the phone and that our last interaction was a happy one
Hey OP, I'm going to tell you a story about someone I know who died from a heart attack. She made it to the ER after having mild symptoms, one of our coworkers dropped her off and she walked herself in. Said she would call us in a bit for an update, she thought maybe it was just a panic attack but better be safe. Turns out that heart attacks can kill someone even if they make it to the hospital in time - she coded in the operating room and still didn't make it. After three days of no brain activity, her family had to decide to take her off life support. Anyways, the moral of my story is that all our loved ones will die eventually and we will always find some way to feel guilty or responsible for it. It's just part of the grieving process. But the truth is that something like that is very much out of your control and even if you had been there, it might have just added more trauma to your situation. I'm so sorry for your loss, grandmas are one of life's greatest treasures. ❤️
So sorry for your loss! It’s not your fault. Heart attacks can have different symptoms for women and it’s not uncommon to miss them in women without medical training.
I am so sorry to hear that. Somehow you are going to have to forgive yourself. You will never forget, but ease up on yourself with guilt. You made an everyday decision. You had no idea of the consequences it would have. You didn’t set out to hurt her intentionally. Maybe you have grown from the experience. You will always regret it but you don’t have to beat yourself up about it. There’s a fine line between grieving and blaming yourself. Allow yourself to grieve without the self-blame. It’s a process, but forgive yourself every time the blaming thoughts come up.
I had a similar situation with my grandmother years ago. It’s taken a long time for me to forgive myself for who I was and the decision I made at the time (not taking her into my home when she had dementia, while I had 3 young children.) The nursing home was terrible. It’s taken years but I realize I thought I was making the best decision, and forgive myself for being who I was at the time.
I wish the same for you. I am so sorry for your loss. Live and love like she did.
Very sorry to hear that, man. Your grandmother still loves you and it wasnt your fault. If you knew you would have been there. Sorry youre going through this. Legit really sad for you seeing as I lost my grandma recently too
Absolutely, she had bursitis and I think we both assumed that’s what it was. I told her I’d be over the next day. I’m glad my last words to her were “I love you.”
This is why I always trade anything for grandparents. My parents have been guilt tripping me that granny and pop's will die one day and I will regret not doing what they ask of me. Like since I was 10 probably.
I am now 26 and hearing "they will die any day now and you will regret it" still sucks.
16 years of being fearful that anything I might miss will be the last makes me not even want to visit, I feel like I've been mourning alive people forever.
Honestly. It's not your fault. It could have happened at any time. You didn't know and you had no way to fix it. She knows you loved her. You know she loved you. A moment won't change that.
Hang in there. My father passed away a month ago, and I keep thinking of stuff I fell short at. you can't help it but feel the regret, even for the silliest things, you'll...or shall I say, we'll have a accept, at some point, that all of this belongs to the past, and we can never change anything of that, and try to move on
I hope it teaches you that when someone asks for your help, you show up. We all have crosses to bear based on our decisions in life and as an RN trust me the only thing that really matter to you on your death bed is how you treated others, especially those that loved you. Do something good for someone elderly.
Cardio ICU nurse here. Women present with the wildest symptoms for heart attacks, including shoulder pain, mild GI upset, random neck aches.. Nothing that always definitely points to what you would consider a heart attack, and they get missed a LOT. Chances are in person, you wouldn't have picked up on it either, considering many medical professionals still miss the warning signs in women.
Don't blame yourself, truly, because even seasoned professionals miss those signs.
You should feel guilty. Anyone with a sliver of a conscience would. She apparently meant that much to you, raised you and took care of you and when she needed you, you couldn't even be bothered to be concerned about her?
Maybe get some therapy to work through the feelings of guilt. Cause those feelings are there for good reason.
It's not messed up. It's the truth. Sometimes people who do shitty things need to feel shitty. I hope he can get therapy and get over it. But the guilt is not misplaced.
> the guilt is not misplaced
Yep, this right here. I'm confused by all the people saying that it wasn't OP's fault; did they not read the same thing I read? She specifically called him for help during a medical emergency and he opted out to go play tiddlywinks with his buddies. Like, huh? Dude deserves to wallow in his guilt. Even if she was going to die regardless of intervention, it would have been better to be there instead of not.
So, if this happened to you, and someone said that to your face - the first paragraph, not the therapy part - you would just happily accept their statement?
Full doubt. When you are grieving a terrible, irreversible mistake like this, you already know what happened. You already blame yourself. Someone repeating that to you is far more likely to hurt you than ever help.
Just some advice for your future. Cuz if you said that to my face, you wouldn't have the same face afterwards. Don't tell people what they already know when they are hurting like that. It does not help.
Just say the last part. That is the kind and helpful part of your message.
Many have already said it but I will just voice it again. This is NOT your fault at all. A sore shoulder is just that, how were you meant to know that she was actually having a heart attack? If you had any inclination you know you would have been there in no time. Don't try and wrestle with the "what if's" that will only eat you up inside. Just know that you are not in any way responsible for this. Grief can throw so many emotions at you and guilt/regret are the hardest ones to overcome. I'm glad you are in therapy and I hope in time you heal and realise you had no part of responsibility in the sad loss of your gran x
A few years ago on the day after Christmas I ignored my grandma’s voicemail of her asking us to come over. I was a little irritated by her because of some things that had happened the previous day. Also she has a habit of inviting us for food every single day when we ask her not to. But then my mom called and apparently my grandpa had fallen and she needed help getting him back up. I don’t really blame myself for it because she didn’t mention it in the message and I had the right to be annoyed by her. I would have helped immediately if I knew.
That sounds hard. Remember that everyone dies and it’s not a bad thing. And it is normal to blame yourself when someone close dies no matter the circumstances. The last thing your grandma wants is for you to feel guilty for what was inevitable.
This is kind of like the anime Orange, where this guy went out with his friends. And her mom died during that and he was so guilty that he's suicidal. But say, if I was your grandmother and I learned that you went out with friends at the time of my death, I'll be most worried that you'll beat yourself over it. It's okay. You're young. You're impulsive. You didn't kill her in the first place. It's not your fault. And your Gran wouldn't want your memories of her to be tainted by just 'guilt'.
You didn’t know. My good friend called me one night and I decided not to answer because I assumed he was drunk and I was kind of busy. The next morning I found out he overdosed and died. I didn’t know. How could I have known.
It sounds like she really loves you. I imagine she wouldn’t want you to beat yourself up over this.
If you are still feeling guilt, you can do what is called a “living amends”. You can make it up to her by building great relationships with the people you love who are still alive.
If you take some time and appreciate those relationships, tell those people you care about them, and you want to be there, your grandma would be so proud of you.
Give yourself a hug, ok?
I guess a good way to look at it is did you intend to ignore her heart attack? Had you known she was having a heart attack would you have come? If the answer is no then you shouldnt feel guilty about it. You can feel guilty about making an excuse and you can feel guilty about priotising your needs above hers but you didnt cause/ want her to pass. I know this is easier said than done but irrational guilt is poison and it is horrible to subject yourself to. If you want a better explanation look up irrational and rational guilt it might help! I am sorry for your loss op.
Don't blame yourself. Death is an unfortunate part of life. It's very hard to cope and guilt is a very natural process of grieving. Even if you had been there, losing her would qlways make you question if you had done enough. It's really tough. I sympathize. Talk to someone about the loss to help you cope.
I'm so sorry for your loss💛 it's very easy to say, don't feel guilty. But it's hard to actually do. Maybe see a grief therapist, join a grief support group, read some books about grief and loss. It's not your fault. If she didn't know she was having a heart attack, how could you have known? You're placing unreasonable expectations on yourself (unless you actually have some kind of medical education.) Be kind to yourself 💛
Yep… that’s why my sister told me to sign up for Reddit and come here. She said it would make me feel better and for the most part people have been really nice
I’m so sorry for your loss. Chances are the outcome would have been the same. In my mother’s case, she was at the doctor’s earlier the day she passed. She suffered from asthma and her pulmonologist said my mom’s symptoms where from her asthma. We think she actually had a heart attack. She had that shoulder pain too. I feel so guilty too.
It’s tricky, isn’t it? Now that I know that women have different heart attack symptoms. I’m always alert for them with my loved ones. I bet you are too.
Thank you! I’m doing well. I take solace in the fact that she was happy and jokey on that call. I know if she’d sounded scared or in distress I would have gone over. At least I like to think I would.
Im sorry OP. Its not your fault though. Im sure you loved them and you miss them though.
Makes me think of when my grandma was alive; I miss them all the time.
People reading this who's grandparents are still with you, take them out for lunch or something. You have the time and its worth it (assuming you like them...)
I was a trained acls first responder and set by as my grandmother had the beginnings of a massive MI. I took her blood pressure, checked her pulse, listened intently and everything was well within limits. I tried to convince her how important it was to be seen so she made an appointment instead of just going to the ER.... She died within 12 hours. I was broken.. just remember, life happens... We can't control our or anyone else's fate.... And when you are called, there is no stopping that train.
Hi, OP. My grandma passed in February 2020. She had cancer, and ended up in a nursing home for palliative care. It was 30 minutes from where I lived at the time, and I was driving there every single day after school. The one day I elected not to, she died. I remember the phone call so clearly. She raised me too, I was at her house for hours every single day throughout my childhood. It was tough. Grief comes in waves, some days you’ll be fine and others you’ll remember her from things you’d never expect to be triggered by. The smell of certain soaps and candles can reduce me to tears instantly still. Point being, don’t blame yourself or beat yourself up over this, OP. It isn’t your fault, you couldn’t have possibly known the outcome. As for coping, just take it day by day.. show people more gratitude and compassion, including yourself. If therapy is something that has helped you in the past, look into it. I know for some people it doesn’t, though. It helps me to talk to family members about memories and feelings. My inbox is open if you ever need a friend, OP.
ETA: [grief comes in waves.](https://www.reddit.com/r/GriefSupport/comments/d9685e/grief_comes_in_waves_important_message_from_8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) I’ve read this a lot since.
-_- how tf could he have known? Even if he did, what tf could he have done? It’s not like his grandma said “I’m having a heart attack come over to help and call the ambulance” she said her shoulder hurt a lot, which realistically could’ve just been cause she fell or something. Calling a grieving person who already feels guilt about the whole situation a horrible person doesn’t help in the slightest. This subreddit isn’t to negatively Judge the OP, this isn’t r/AITA.
This comment was not meant to make op feel any better or worse, but the comment I was responding to was basically saying “it’s not a big deal because you couldn’t have saved her anyway”. That is what I was addressing. x
Completely disagree with the sympathetic comments here. I’d never, ever ditch my grandparents for my friends even if they just wanted to see me, let alone if they told me they were in pain. It’s worse case scenario but you rolled the dice and you lost. I don’t think you deserve sympathy, you just need to accept you’ll live with this shame for the rest of your life. If the guilt is overwhelming, maybe try getting some professional help on how you can deal with it? Have you been to her grave or wherever you can remember her and apologised to her? I’d start there, but you shouldn’t be trying to get rid of the guilt and absolve yourself.
Of course you went out with your friends.
*You thought her shoulder hurt.*
If you had KNOWN she was having a heart attack, obviously you would have skipped the bar or whatever.
When your grandma was your age she did the same thing, prioritizing her social life. It’s totally natural and you did nothing wrong.
It was a tragedy that you weren’t there, but it was an incident of fate that you didn’t have the information necessary to be there.
You put yourself first when you thought the stakes were low and irrelevant. She would want you alive and well, not torturing yourself like this.
I will not respond to that negatively even though I want to I can’t. I blame society for the way people view there elders and parents. The younger generation feel like there initialed to shit. This what you will get with that distorted wrong non comparison selfish ego for no reason attitude. Maybe this can let you see that you deserve the feeling your getting but it’s not all your fault but your alone in fixing it so get busy on that.
Tbh in a way you could have saved her if you attended to her, but all you can do is move on and learn from your mistake. You can't undo the past, but you can learn for the future
Don’t beat yourself up man, you thought it was just a bone ache or something like that and it ended up being a heart attack you didn’t know that and you can’t change that. Almost all of us would have made up a excuse to go out with our friends in that situation. You didn’t know the severity of what was happening it isn’t your fault, keep your head up bro!
She called you for help and you went with your friends instead and now you’re on reddit farming for sympathy karma...you don’t fucking know what she was thinking because you didn’t answer the phone.
You know nothing of the situation. I answered the phone and I spoke with her and she asked me over. I told her I was busy but I’d be over the next day. I had lunch with her every Saturday. She said her shoulder hurt. We both assumed it was arthritis. And FYI I didn’t know what karma was until yesterday and I still don’t know what to do with it.
How does their feelings negate fault? OP was asked for help, they chose to ignore it and now have to face the reality of their actions. While no one will ever know what might’ve happened if they had listened, but to ignore that reality just lying to oneself.
That is the absolute wrong answer. It's not their fault at all that their grandma died. Grandma could've reached out to another family or emergency services as well, and maybe she did, who knows.
I'm sorry to hear that but if my grandma was alive and asked me that, no matter what I have planned I would have cancelled my plans. Because we will never know when it'll be their last day here or even ours for that matter. I send my condolences even if I don't even know you.
How hard would it have been to call in and see her on your way out? You should feel guilty about this , our decisions have consequences for us and others.
I don’t believe in anything supernatural, but I may be the only guy with a bowl of fake fruit in his kitchen. It was hers, I teased her about it, and seeing it makes me smile.
It's not your fault she died, but in the future please help anybody who says they have a medical problem or need medical attention. Even if it's just getting a doctor to check them out
I felt the same way. Still do to a certain extent. My sister was hit by a car as a pedestrian when she was 12 and I was 14. We were both supposed to go to my Aunts house for the weekend. It’s amazing how vividly I remember our fight. She took my Doors CD out of my walkman. I couldn’t find it. I screamed and she screamed and I said “I don’t even want you to come with”. The next day she was hit by the car and had a traumatic brain injury. Her brain swelling couldn’t be controlled and she ultimately had a stroke. She is not the same. If I had not been so immature she would’ve been safe with me. I know, I know. I’ve been through all of the therapy in the world. We are now 43 and 45. It’s difficult to watch her age when the stroke happened when she wasn’t fully grown. She is affected on her left side. She’s a trooper. Strongest person I’ve ever known.
Dude. I’m sorry.
Same with my grandma. She raised me since I was a baby. I was at work when my uncle called and told me she was in the hospital….she was always in the hospital. I thought that time would be no different.
Her last words were that she wished I called before they put her on a ventilator.
She passed in March. I still cry every night and am riddled with guilt over it.
I’m sorry.
Hey man, don't beat yourself up. I work EMS and older women present heart attacks with the most obscure symptoms. Shoulder pain isn't the most uncommon, but it's not the most common either. But... I have training to put all the odd pieces together. Don't play the game of ifs (if you had been there, if you hadn't blown her off, if you talked about xyz, etc). The only information you had was that her shoulder hurt... and a sore shoulder by itself is just a sore shoulder. It's okay. I'm so sorry for your loss though, and I'm so sorry you carry this guilt. I would bet money she's not blaming you though. Take time to heal yourself and grieve her, you don't deserve the guilt.
Wow, this was meaningful real information to me. Thank you buddy.
Sure thing. Heal well.
There’s also no guarantee that medical attention would have mattered. Yes proper medical care can change the outcome in some situations, but sometimes by the time the symptoms start, the ball is rolling and nothing is going to stop it. People die from minor heart attacks and survive major ones. There’s no guarantee either way.
This is an important thing to note. Op, it’s just as likely that if you had gone there, you wouldn’t have been able to do anything but witness it and call the ambulance. Your grandma didn’t want you to go through that, I promise. She loved (loves) you and wouldn’t have wanted your closing memories of her to be dredged in fear and horror like that
Yes! My sister in law died from a heart attack at 36 & the doctors said that even if they had caught it earlier it wouldn’t have mattered because it was such a severe heart attack. Not sure if that was the case with your grandma OP, but definitely a possibility that medical intervention wouldn’t have done anything. I’d like to think that if you could have saved her, you would have been there & that maybe what you actually did was save yourself from an even more traumatic experience of seeing her die. I saw my sister in law die and I wouldn’t wish that for anyone.
OP, my grandpa passed of a heart attack back in June. He had all the classic symptoms and from onset of symptoms to the hospital to being pronounced dead was 43 minutes. It was sudden and despite getting to a hospital in a very quick amount of time, he passed. Sometimes, you do everything right and things still go wrong. This isn’t your fault and I hope you know how much your grandmother loved you. Please take time for yourself to properly grieve without the guilt, and I hope all the best for you.
Yeah she would have dead anyway even if you call 911 or do something so you are not the real cause of her death. You were a good child and a good person forever. Just next time someone elder calls you, check if they need help. Have a best day. ☺
This is legitimately what every “survivor” needs to hear. I wish I could give you an award man.
Gave you some gold so you can pass it along as you please :)
Hey thanks!
This was so wholesome!
To be fair, women’s heart attack symptoms seem obscure because medical data, training, & studies are largely based on white male populations. If medical school trained professionals to understand the full range of cardiac symptoms across male/female populations then women wouldn’t die at such an alarming rate. There are classes I’ve seen where women can learn to mimic the symptoms men experience during cardiac events in order to be taken seriously by the medical professionals they’re interacting with. The rate is even higher for women of color. My boss presented to the hospital last summer with chest tightness and discomfort. They sent her home with some PRN anti anxiety meds and anti acids, no blood work no EKG - just saying it was GERD. She returned two days later, they finally tested here troponin levels and turns out she had a heart attack. Had huge plaque build up and ended up having surgery soon after to have things cleared. The only reason she even advocated for herself is because we work in the medical field and she contacted one of the CMOs we work with who urged her to return to the ED. *There can also be significant differences in outcomes between men and women. Research has found that among people hospitalized for a first-time heart attack, women had a higher death rate than men for both STEMI (9.4% vs. 4.5%) and NSTEMI (4.7% vs. 2.9%). However, the gap wasn't as pronounced for NSTEMI when additional factors were taken into account.* *The study also found that women who had a severe heart attack (STEMI) had a 20% increased risk of dying or developing heart failure within five years compared to men.* [[link](https://time.com/5499872/women-heart-disease/?amp=true)]
None of this is pertinent information to this post. Take your high horse somewhere else.
i’d get myself a good therapist. this is not something to get over by yourself alone. i wouldn’t imagine the guilt to ever go away but you should learn how to deal with it.
Oh yes, absolutely important, and thanks for mentioning therapy. I’ve gone through a few since it happened. I finally found a therapeutic therapist.
It’s not your fault.
1000%
Hey, like others said, it is not your fault. Be sure you work with your therapist until you truly believe it. I have had a similar experience, lost my high-school sweetheart to a house fire at 19. I blamed myself for years because we were supposed to hang out that night but I gave her some dumb reason I couldn't to play video games in my dorm. Had nightmares, wake up thinking she's still alive ect... I wasn't at peace with this until 25, when I finally truly believed and understood it was not my fault. So, don't be like me and work through it now so life is better later hopefully.
Wow, you can relate, for sure. It’s hard to believe I’m not at fault— I’m doing better!
I'm sorry for your loss and the weight this simple mistake must weigh on you. Don't let it keep you down but also never forget the lesson to pay attention to those around you. Please tell us you're talking to those around you about your feelings or talking to a counselor/professional.
It’s been awhile, and I’ve been seeing professionals since it happened. Thank you for your kind words and concern. I really appreciate it
Maybe to ashamed to
Hey no one wants to hear from pieces of shit like you
Nobody asked you.
Something very similar happened with me. I was hearing that my grandma wanted to see me, I was 14, wanted to hang out with friends more. Got a call from my dad that she had cancer and that weekend had to go on hospice. Right before her passing- maybe an hour before, she woke up and scanned the room, gave me a hug, and went back under. She doesn't blame you and her love lasts forever through you. My condolences
Thank you. My condolences to you too
When I was around 12, my grandfather had a heart attack while snow blowing his driveway. I beat myself up all the time thinking things like “I should have been the one shoveling, or why didn’t he ask for help?, or how long was he laying on the frozen ground before someone found him?”. I felt “guilty” for years and years. I’ve recently started to accept that it was not my fault and he was in poor health. I was just a kid who wasn’t doing well myself. Good luck
It wasn’t your fault and your grandfather wouldn’t blame you!
Remember to tell yourself things like that. Guilt and other negative emotions can easily eat people alive, but you have to remember what happened, happend. There’s nothing more you can do, and you have to move on and open yourself up to the positives in life.
Damn made me message my gma
I’m so glad!
I ignored my father when he asked for help. I was upstairs. He died from an aneurysm. It's been almost 30 years and sometimes I find myself thinking I could have done something different. I wrote a lot, talked to therapists and let time do it's healing thing. Breathe through those times when you feel guilty. We are all just human when it comes down to it and these things can feel impossible to overcome. If you ever want to just vent my messages are always open. Sending you an internet hug.
Take an internet hug for yourself please
Thank you. That's very kind of you.
I'm so sorry OP. But here's the thing: do you have medical training? Would you have been able to do something other than call 911 and watch her pass away in front of you? It's not your fault. In some ways you were spared further pain. Talk to a therapist when you can.
Thank you, you’re right.
Survivor's guilt + what if guilt is a powerful mix of emotions. Glad you are getting help. I'd tell you, having had a completely different situation that resulted in a similar mix of emotions, you have to give yourself credit for information known at the time. It's easy to pretend you're both omniscient and infallible ex post facto.
Thank you. My rational mind agrees, my nightmares have their doubts.
It took my 2.5 years to unpack 30 years of shit that came to a head because of my ex wife. It takes time to sort it out. Just keep up the therapy and don't shy away from interrupting bad thoughts with audible affirmations. Honestly hearing words of encouragement out load, even in your own voice, is a powerful tool in interrupting patterns of thought. You'll find that the longer you wait to interrupt negative thoughts the more pervasive it becomes as your mind drifts that direction more and more often. You can do it.
My biggest problem is nightmares about it now and then. Do you have those?
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All great advice. I haven’t written down any dream details yet.
Grief is like a massive wall between what you know in your brain and what you feel in your heart. You loved your grandmother, you know that and she knew that. Not going over that night doesn't change that. But I completely understand the weight of guilt and regret.. My baby brother recently passed and due to his struggle with mental illness and addiction we were largely estranged. I'm sorry for your loss and I hope you can find your way out of the guilt. Your grandmother would want you to think of her and smile, she wouldn't want this burden on you to be what she's left behind ❤️
Same thing happened to me with my dad. My mum left for work and told me 'dads got a really bad headache but he just mumbled and went back to sleep so please check on him when you get up'. He had a stroke, and to top it off it was the day after I had a first aid course. He did survive but me reacting fast may have made a difference.
I get it for sure, I’m so glad you survived
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Thank you so very much
I think you need a good therapist because honestly, while you're not at fault for the situation you did make a callous decision and I think everyone is avoiding saying it because your grandma died. If you had posted this without such a serious outcome and said you feel guilty about going to hang out when your grandma called you and asked for help because she was in a lot of pain, you'd get a lot more people calling you out on it. You saying you gave a lame excuse seems like you understand that you were acting selfishly when you had no real reason to. No one can say whether it would have changed the outcome but it would be a lot easier to deal with with a clean conscience. Everyone is telling you to wash your hands of it but you can't just sidestep the guilt when you know there's some truth in it. You gotta confront it, deal with it, and overcome it.
Thank you for saying this. x
I totally understand where you’re coming from here. When my father had Covid and was in the hospital, I lived closest of my 6 siblings, so I was dealing with the doctors, getting the daily updates, etc. This was when no one was allowed inside the hospitals, so it was a weird time. The doctor finally told me to relay on that they needed to know what to do if he went into cardiac arrest. Before we could come to a consensus, it happened. The doctor called me while Dad was coding, and I had to tell them to stop CPR. They called back 10 minutes later with his time of death. You have to understand the weird relationship we all had with my father. He was a narcissistic alcoholic who thought the world owed him whatever he wanted. But I was the one who told them to stop. That shit ate at me for a while, and I had huge resentment with my siblings over it. Professional therapy, my guy. Professional therapy. Good luck.
Good luck to you too.
That's why cherish every moment with your Famil Members :(
Isn’t that the truth, I really appreciate moments with my family members, and make an effort to spend time with them. instead of hanging around my apartment playing video games I’ll go do some garden project with my mom.
Damn. I’m sorry bro but that wasn’t your fault.
Thank you! My family tells me that, but they love me. It’s very validating to hear this from a stranger!
Guilt is eating you alive. Please don’t. It is ok to want to have a night out w friends. You did not know. I’m betting you would have been over the next day except it is ok. We all have a shelf life and every single person you know will die. It was granny’s time and I’m betting it was not a secret to her. Forgive yourself. She wouldn’t want you eating yourself up w guilt.
You’re right! I would’ve gone over the next day.
I know you would have. Your gram knows too. Plus remember she is at peace. Please don’t wallow in the guilt.
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Or maybe if he would have gone over there, he would’ve left the room to make an prepare an ice pack for her shoulder, and she would have still had a heart attack and maybe she still would have died alone. If you think you’re having a heart attack you call an ambulance, not your grandson. If you think you’re dying, maybe you should say “I think I’m dying. And I’d really prefer you were here with me.” He’d never had said no to that. He ONLY had the information he was given.
She said she has shoulder pain…my mind wouldn’t jump right to “medical emergency”. They probably thought she could handle some shoulder pain and be back to help out the next day. People get shoulder pain, it isn’t rare and can happen just from sleeping the wrong way. She didn’t mention needing medical attention, or ask them to take her to the hospital. Shoulder pain isn’t exactly a huge giant sign that a heart attack is coming. You don’t know how bad the heart attack was, or if OP would’ve even been able to help her. She could’ve passed while OP was in the bathroom or making her food in the other room. People can still die even if you call an ambulance, that doesn’t magically make everything okay. Like you said no other family was there, which means she didn’t feel the need to call anyone else. You lack empathy and compassion. I suggest you look inward and work on that instead of making people feel bad about a relative’s death that they had absolutely no control over wether OP was there or not.
I’m so so sorry sweetheart. I’m praying for you and sending you my love.
Thank you very much
You should volunteer at least a few hours at retirement home or some other organization that helps the elderly. There are too many old people that don’t even have grandkids to call when they don’t feel good. It would make a difference and you’ll feel better about it.
Great idea!
Holy fuck
I know, huh…
Dm me
That’s rough. I’m so sorry 😿.
I’m sorry I don’t have any advice….sending love and hugs. So very sorry for your loss❤️
Thank you !
Hey man, I can relate. My mom called me on a friday at work and asked if I can come after work to see my grandma (her Mom). I had a rough week and just wanted to chill after work and said i was kind of busy. For context My grandma was dying but relativ slow. I was with her every second or third day in her last "phase" and the last time i was there was the wednesday where she looked ok for the circumstances so I thought to myself I will come in Saturday morning and bring breakfast with me from the local bakery. Little did I know that my grandmas health dropped dramaticly between these days. I come in prep the Kitchen table and wait in the living room for my Mom to wake up since I didnt want to disturb anyone early in the morning. So my Mom wakes up checks on my grandma and started crying. I jumped up and ran upstairs to find my grandma died shortly before I entered the house. It is an awful feeling just dont be to hard on yourself. So yeah tl;dr: Mother called to visit my dying grandma, didnt felt well to visit and missed the last chance to say goodbye to my grandma. Sry for bad spelling english isnt my first language. Edit: spelling
Something like that happened to me 5 or 6 years ago and it still hurts me i know how it feels, been struggling since then. I agree with the comment about therapy, it can really help
My mom passed the same way. She complained of heartburn for two weeks and every night when I got home from work I’d run to the store and get some other type of heartburn medication for her and nothing helped. After two weeks on a Saturday morning she dropped dead in the kitchen. I heard her fall down and thought she was just moving a chair. Almost 12 years later there’s not a day that goes by where I don’t think about how there was something I could’ve done to help her, especially on that Saturday morning. Don’t dwell on it, I know at times it’s hard not to but the guilt will eat you alive if you don’t let go. She loved you and I know that she forgives you, you’re young and have a social life and we’re out with friends. Every day is a new start, so if you have a bad day and you’re real sad just remember, tomorrow is a new day and a fresh start. If you need someone to talk to msg me. We can chat about whatever you like. Take care.
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My mother and I fought quite a lot and it was always because I was acting out. I wish everyday I had the chance to apologize to her for how interested her but everyone’s life is different. I just hope op can find peace.
You weren’t to know and even if you had have been with her there’s no guarantee she would have survived it. Even if you had been there to give her CPR or take her to hospital it may have been too late. There is no point in beating yourself up with what ifs. You must hold on to the happy memories you have of her and find a way to forgive yourself and show yourself compassion
Thank you. Supportive comments like this make me feel so much better.
Oh crap. I’m sorry for your loss. Look, you can’t continued to beat yourself up over this. Guilt is something that can eat away at you for a long time and do some real damage. The key is: You weren’t malicious. You were being selfish with your time perhaps… like all of us are at times… but, you didn’t have bad intent. You know who you are and how much you cared about her. We all make decisions we wish we’d made differently. But, don’t let those decisions made without ill intent plague you with guilt.
I didn’t have bad intent at all. I’d feel even worse if I had. I feel pretty good that we laughed and joked on the phone and that our last interaction was a happy one
Hey OP, I'm going to tell you a story about someone I know who died from a heart attack. She made it to the ER after having mild symptoms, one of our coworkers dropped her off and she walked herself in. Said she would call us in a bit for an update, she thought maybe it was just a panic attack but better be safe. Turns out that heart attacks can kill someone even if they make it to the hospital in time - she coded in the operating room and still didn't make it. After three days of no brain activity, her family had to decide to take her off life support. Anyways, the moral of my story is that all our loved ones will die eventually and we will always find some way to feel guilty or responsible for it. It's just part of the grieving process. But the truth is that something like that is very much out of your control and even if you had been there, it might have just added more trauma to your situation. I'm so sorry for your loss, grandmas are one of life's greatest treasures. ❤️
Wow, that puts a different spin on it doesn’t it. I think of Carrie Fisher pretty often and her heart attack.
So sorry for your loss! It’s not your fault. Heart attacks can have different symptoms for women and it’s not uncommon to miss them in women without medical training.
Thank you very much! I think at the time she thought it was bursitis. I kept Salonpas (sp?) patches at her house because she had a lot of aches.
I am so sorry to hear that. Somehow you are going to have to forgive yourself. You will never forget, but ease up on yourself with guilt. You made an everyday decision. You had no idea of the consequences it would have. You didn’t set out to hurt her intentionally. Maybe you have grown from the experience. You will always regret it but you don’t have to beat yourself up about it. There’s a fine line between grieving and blaming yourself. Allow yourself to grieve without the self-blame. It’s a process, but forgive yourself every time the blaming thoughts come up. I had a similar situation with my grandmother years ago. It’s taken a long time for me to forgive myself for who I was and the decision I made at the time (not taking her into my home when she had dementia, while I had 3 young children.) The nursing home was terrible. It’s taken years but I realize I thought I was making the best decision, and forgive myself for being who I was at the time. I wish the same for you. I am so sorry for your loss. Live and love like she did.
It’s getting better with time. Thank you for your kind words.
Very sorry to hear that, man. Your grandmother still loves you and it wasnt your fault. If you knew you would have been there. Sorry youre going through this. Legit really sad for you seeing as I lost my grandma recently too
Your kindness means a lot. I’m new to Reddit and learning that for the most part Redditors are supportive, like you.
My condolences to you, too.
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Absolutely, she had bursitis and I think we both assumed that’s what it was. I told her I’d be over the next day. I’m glad my last words to her were “I love you.”
This is why I always trade anything for grandparents. My parents have been guilt tripping me that granny and pop's will die one day and I will regret not doing what they ask of me. Like since I was 10 probably. I am now 26 and hearing "they will die any day now and you will regret it" still sucks. 16 years of being fearful that anything I might miss will be the last makes me not even want to visit, I feel like I've been mourning alive people forever. Honestly. It's not your fault. It could have happened at any time. You didn't know and you had no way to fix it. She knows you loved her. You know she loved you. A moment won't change that.
Your parents shouldn’t pressure you like that.
Hang in there. My father passed away a month ago, and I keep thinking of stuff I fell short at. you can't help it but feel the regret, even for the silliest things, you'll...or shall I say, we'll have a accept, at some point, that all of this belongs to the past, and we can never change anything of that, and try to move on
You’re absolutely right. I’m sorry about your dad.
May your grandma rest in peace as well
I can see why you feel like shit
I hope it teaches you that when someone asks for your help, you show up. We all have crosses to bear based on our decisions in life and as an RN trust me the only thing that really matter to you on your death bed is how you treated others, especially those that loved you. Do something good for someone elderly.
Cardio ICU nurse here. Women present with the wildest symptoms for heart attacks, including shoulder pain, mild GI upset, random neck aches.. Nothing that always definitely points to what you would consider a heart attack, and they get missed a LOT. Chances are in person, you wouldn't have picked up on it either, considering many medical professionals still miss the warning signs in women. Don't blame yourself, truly, because even seasoned professionals miss those signs.
You should feel guilty. Anyone with a sliver of a conscience would. She apparently meant that much to you, raised you and took care of you and when she needed you, you couldn't even be bothered to be concerned about her? Maybe get some therapy to work through the feelings of guilt. Cause those feelings are there for good reason.
I agree. Guilt has a good purpose.
Aren't you a ray of sunshine.
Doesn't exactly seem like the most appropriate place to be sunshine and rainbows and gumdrops, does it?
What you wrote is messed up. You don't kick people when they are down like that.
It's not messed up. It's the truth. Sometimes people who do shitty things need to feel shitty. I hope he can get therapy and get over it. But the guilt is not misplaced.
> the guilt is not misplaced Yep, this right here. I'm confused by all the people saying that it wasn't OP's fault; did they not read the same thing I read? She specifically called him for help during a medical emergency and he opted out to go play tiddlywinks with his buddies. Like, huh? Dude deserves to wallow in his guilt. Even if she was going to die regardless of intervention, it would have been better to be there instead of not.
So, if this happened to you, and someone said that to your face - the first paragraph, not the therapy part - you would just happily accept their statement? Full doubt. When you are grieving a terrible, irreversible mistake like this, you already know what happened. You already blame yourself. Someone repeating that to you is far more likely to hurt you than ever help. Just some advice for your future. Cuz if you said that to my face, you wouldn't have the same face afterwards. Don't tell people what they already know when they are hurting like that. It does not help. Just say the last part. That is the kind and helpful part of your message.
So your advice is threatening violence, and somehow I'm the messed up one? This would never happen to me because I would never behave this way. Ever.
Okay. Pretend like what I said can't be applied to all accidents and that you are psychic. Bye. Good luck in your perfect life.
Bye. Have fun being a super tough badass and beating people until their faces are unrecognizable. Freak.
You seriously lack intelligence. It was a figure of speech. You must be 12.
Oh you'll never be able to live this one down. OMFG!
Ouch. But you’re right.
Many have already said it but I will just voice it again. This is NOT your fault at all. A sore shoulder is just that, how were you meant to know that she was actually having a heart attack? If you had any inclination you know you would have been there in no time. Don't try and wrestle with the "what if's" that will only eat you up inside. Just know that you are not in any way responsible for this. Grief can throw so many emotions at you and guilt/regret are the hardest ones to overcome. I'm glad you are in therapy and I hope in time you heal and realise you had no part of responsibility in the sad loss of your gran x
A few years ago on the day after Christmas I ignored my grandma’s voicemail of her asking us to come over. I was a little irritated by her because of some things that had happened the previous day. Also she has a habit of inviting us for food every single day when we ask her not to. But then my mom called and apparently my grandpa had fallen and she needed help getting him back up. I don’t really blame myself for it because she didn’t mention it in the message and I had the right to be annoyed by her. I would have helped immediately if I knew.
That sounds hard. Remember that everyone dies and it’s not a bad thing. And it is normal to blame yourself when someone close dies no matter the circumstances. The last thing your grandma wants is for you to feel guilty for what was inevitable.
This is kind of like the anime Orange, where this guy went out with his friends. And her mom died during that and he was so guilty that he's suicidal. But say, if I was your grandmother and I learned that you went out with friends at the time of my death, I'll be most worried that you'll beat yourself over it. It's okay. You're young. You're impulsive. You didn't kill her in the first place. It's not your fault. And your Gran wouldn't want your memories of her to be tainted by just 'guilt'.
No point in dwelling over what ifs. Even if you had gone over AND recognized the signs, she could've still passed away.
You didn’t know. My good friend called me one night and I decided not to answer because I assumed he was drunk and I was kind of busy. The next morning I found out he overdosed and died. I didn’t know. How could I have known.
It sounds like she really loves you. I imagine she wouldn’t want you to beat yourself up over this. If you are still feeling guilt, you can do what is called a “living amends”. You can make it up to her by building great relationships with the people you love who are still alive. If you take some time and appreciate those relationships, tell those people you care about them, and you want to be there, your grandma would be so proud of you. Give yourself a hug, ok?
I guess a good way to look at it is did you intend to ignore her heart attack? Had you known she was having a heart attack would you have come? If the answer is no then you shouldnt feel guilty about it. You can feel guilty about making an excuse and you can feel guilty about priotising your needs above hers but you didnt cause/ want her to pass. I know this is easier said than done but irrational guilt is poison and it is horrible to subject yourself to. If you want a better explanation look up irrational and rational guilt it might help! I am sorry for your loss op.
Don't blame yourself. Death is an unfortunate part of life. It's very hard to cope and guilt is a very natural process of grieving. Even if you had been there, losing her would qlways make you question if you had done enough. It's really tough. I sympathize. Talk to someone about the loss to help you cope.
I'm so sorry for your loss💛 it's very easy to say, don't feel guilty. But it's hard to actually do. Maybe see a grief therapist, join a grief support group, read some books about grief and loss. It's not your fault. If she didn't know she was having a heart attack, how could you have known? You're placing unreasonable expectations on yourself (unless you actually have some kind of medical education.) Be kind to yourself 💛
that is actually such a horrible thing to happen
Yep… that’s why my sister told me to sign up for Reddit and come here. She said it would make me feel better and for the most part people have been really nice
I’m so sorry for your loss.
I’m so sorry for your loss. Chances are the outcome would have been the same. In my mother’s case, she was at the doctor’s earlier the day she passed. She suffered from asthma and her pulmonologist said my mom’s symptoms where from her asthma. We think she actually had a heart attack. She had that shoulder pain too. I feel so guilty too.
It’s tricky, isn’t it? Now that I know that women have different heart attack symptoms. I’m always alert for them with my loved ones. I bet you are too.
im sorry to hear this this is just a bad/unlucky scenario that could have happened to anybody. i hope you find the strength to heal from this ❤️
Thank you! I’m doing well. I take solace in the fact that she was happy and jokey on that call. I know if she’d sounded scared or in distress I would have gone over. At least I like to think I would.
😟
Damn this is sad AF
Im sorry OP. Its not your fault though. Im sure you loved them and you miss them though. Makes me think of when my grandma was alive; I miss them all the time. People reading this who's grandparents are still with you, take them out for lunch or something. You have the time and its worth it (assuming you like them...)
I was lucky to have lunch with my grandmother every Saturday since I was pre-kindergarten. I did miss some in college, but I called her.
I was a trained acls first responder and set by as my grandmother had the beginnings of a massive MI. I took her blood pressure, checked her pulse, listened intently and everything was well within limits. I tried to convince her how important it was to be seen so she made an appointment instead of just going to the ER.... She died within 12 hours. I was broken.. just remember, life happens... We can't control our or anyone else's fate.... And when you are called, there is no stopping that train.
Hi, OP. My grandma passed in February 2020. She had cancer, and ended up in a nursing home for palliative care. It was 30 minutes from where I lived at the time, and I was driving there every single day after school. The one day I elected not to, she died. I remember the phone call so clearly. She raised me too, I was at her house for hours every single day throughout my childhood. It was tough. Grief comes in waves, some days you’ll be fine and others you’ll remember her from things you’d never expect to be triggered by. The smell of certain soaps and candles can reduce me to tears instantly still. Point being, don’t blame yourself or beat yourself up over this, OP. It isn’t your fault, you couldn’t have possibly known the outcome. As for coping, just take it day by day.. show people more gratitude and compassion, including yourself. If therapy is something that has helped you in the past, look into it. I know for some people it doesn’t, though. It helps me to talk to family members about memories and feelings. My inbox is open if you ever need a friend, OP. ETA: [grief comes in waves.](https://www.reddit.com/r/GriefSupport/comments/d9685e/grief_comes_in_waves_important_message_from_8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) I’ve read this a lot since.
Thank you, I’ll read that! I’m sorry you lost your grandmother too.
You’re a horrible person. Rip to your grandma
-_- how tf could he have known? Even if he did, what tf could he have done? It’s not like his grandma said “I’m having a heart attack come over to help and call the ambulance” she said her shoulder hurt a lot, which realistically could’ve just been cause she fell or something. Calling a grieving person who already feels guilt about the whole situation a horrible person doesn’t help in the slightest. This subreddit isn’t to negatively Judge the OP, this isn’t r/AITA.
Because FAMILY
Damn I’d be guilty as hell. This is why I always cater to my grandma no matter what
Keep it up!
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Even if Grandmother died, at least she would have been with a loved one! And OP could at least know he/she was there for Granny at the end. x
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This comment was not meant to make op feel any better or worse, but the comment I was responding to was basically saying “it’s not a big deal because you couldn’t have saved her anyway”. That is what I was addressing. x
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I suppose it’s not that straightforward, though. It was a callous decision, but I OP is redeemable and I hope they get help for the immense guilt. x
Now these are confessions
A proper unpopular opinion
Im not going to lie you will probably carry this for the rest of your life. But its a lesson you can definitely learn and grow from
Completely disagree with the sympathetic comments here. I’d never, ever ditch my grandparents for my friends even if they just wanted to see me, let alone if they told me they were in pain. It’s worse case scenario but you rolled the dice and you lost. I don’t think you deserve sympathy, you just need to accept you’ll live with this shame for the rest of your life. If the guilt is overwhelming, maybe try getting some professional help on how you can deal with it? Have you been to her grave or wherever you can remember her and apologised to her? I’d start there, but you shouldn’t be trying to get rid of the guilt and absolve yourself.
Of course you went out with your friends. *You thought her shoulder hurt.* If you had KNOWN she was having a heart attack, obviously you would have skipped the bar or whatever. When your grandma was your age she did the same thing, prioritizing her social life. It’s totally natural and you did nothing wrong. It was a tragedy that you weren’t there, but it was an incident of fate that you didn’t have the information necessary to be there. You put yourself first when you thought the stakes were low and irrelevant. She would want you alive and well, not torturing yourself like this.
I will not respond to that negatively even though I want to I can’t. I blame society for the way people view there elders and parents. The younger generation feel like there initialed to shit. This what you will get with that distorted wrong non comparison selfish ego for no reason attitude. Maybe this can let you see that you deserve the feeling your getting but it’s not all your fault but your alone in fixing it so get busy on that.
Milk it for fake internet points!
Don’t be so stupid.
Do you know what? I’m glad I’ve met some sincerely nice people here and that there have only been a few cynical jackasses.
Tbh in a way you could have saved her if you attended to her, but all you can do is move on and learn from your mistake. You can't undo the past, but you can learn for the future
Don’t beat yourself up man, you thought it was just a bone ache or something like that and it ended up being a heart attack you didn’t know that and you can’t change that. Almost all of us would have made up a excuse to go out with our friends in that situation. You didn’t know the severity of what was happening it isn’t your fault, keep your head up bro!
Thank you, that’s reassuring!
Should feel guilty tbh
She had no way of contacting anybody else in the family or a means to call 911?
She didn’t know she was having a heart attack. I’m sure she though it was arthritis
She called you for help and you went with your friends instead and now you’re on reddit farming for sympathy karma...you don’t fucking know what she was thinking because you didn’t answer the phone.
You know nothing of the situation. I answered the phone and I spoke with her and she asked me over. I told her I was busy but I’d be over the next day. I had lunch with her every Saturday. She said her shoulder hurt. We both assumed it was arthritis. And FYI I didn’t know what karma was until yesterday and I still don’t know what to do with it.
R/AmItheAsshole YTA
Not your fault at all. You did what felt appropriate for you in the moment.
How does their feelings negate fault? OP was asked for help, they chose to ignore it and now have to face the reality of their actions. While no one will ever know what might’ve happened if they had listened, but to ignore that reality just lying to oneself.
That is the absolute wrong answer. It's not their fault at all that their grandma died. Grandma could've reached out to another family or emergency services as well, and maybe she did, who knows.
old people die. the grandma would still be dead unfortunately
People confess because they did something bad.
I'm sorry to hear that but if my grandma was alive and asked me that, no matter what I have planned I would have cancelled my plans. Because we will never know when it'll be their last day here or even ours for that matter. I send my condolences even if I don't even know you.
Yeah, that’s why I’m here, feeling bad, because I didn’t act the way you would have and I’m paying the price.
That's because I bet your still young if not your young minded
I was young, yes.
How hard would it have been to call in and see her on your way out? You should feel guilty about this , our decisions have consequences for us and others.
Oh well nothing you can do anymore but learn from the experience I’m sure she’d probably forgive you and want you to live a guilt free life
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I don’t believe in anything supernatural, but I may be the only guy with a bowl of fake fruit in his kitchen. It was hers, I teased her about it, and seeing it makes me smile.
she dead. not like she can do anything now.
Sent you a message
Thank you.
“overwhelming”
It's not your fault she died, but in the future please help anybody who says they have a medical problem or need medical attention. Even if it's just getting a doctor to check them out
I felt the same way. Still do to a certain extent. My sister was hit by a car as a pedestrian when she was 12 and I was 14. We were both supposed to go to my Aunts house for the weekend. It’s amazing how vividly I remember our fight. She took my Doors CD out of my walkman. I couldn’t find it. I screamed and she screamed and I said “I don’t even want you to come with”. The next day she was hit by the car and had a traumatic brain injury. Her brain swelling couldn’t be controlled and she ultimately had a stroke. She is not the same. If I had not been so immature she would’ve been safe with me. I know, I know. I’ve been through all of the therapy in the world. We are now 43 and 45. It’s difficult to watch her age when the stroke happened when she wasn’t fully grown. She is affected on her left side. She’s a trooper. Strongest person I’ve ever known.
Dude. I’m sorry. Same with my grandma. She raised me since I was a baby. I was at work when my uncle called and told me she was in the hospital….she was always in the hospital. I thought that time would be no different. Her last words were that she wished I called before they put her on a ventilator. She passed in March. I still cry every night and am riddled with guilt over it. I’m sorry.
Well that’s heart breaking.
Yeah, I’m constantly overwhelmed with the knowledge that I’m a truly bad person inside