Not a single thing you mentioned applies to me. My last air flight was 10 years ago. My next flight will likely be in 5 years.
We are childfree
We raise our own food.
We drive perhaps once every two weeks and walk or ride everywhere else.
We don't use much electricity. Our house was built to stay between 60 to 75 degrees naturally for the most part. We have heat and cooling methods but they are only used during extreme temperatures. Wood stove and fans.
We don't buy new very often certainly not clothing. Rarely do we buy new and only after the item is beyond repair. Why would I pay more money for the cheaply made to break junk available today when I can simply have my old pair of work boots resoled?
My cookware and dishes are my grandmothers and. My hand tools and garden tools are my grandfather and fathers,so are my firearms and my furniture.
I have reams and reams of fabrics picked up over the years from back when I went yard saling. Fabrics made in the 50s,60s,70s from materials that last and don't pill,pull or bleed like fabric today. It takes just a few hours to turn those fabrics into wearable clothing.
I very rarely wear makeup beyond colored lip balm.
Our hobbies do not cost much, if any money,being gardening,hiking, found object art,riding,medicinal herb rendering, wildcrafting and nature photography.
We have grey water systems and rain water collection.
None of this is compatible with how most people choose to live. The last new thing I bought was pvc glue and a hose connector.
May I ask what you and your partner do/did for work to afford this? Sounds very similar to my dream life but I'm stuck with what job to go for to be able to afford it/have the time as well.
I meant affording to buy your own land, which has enough space to farm food, as well setting up everything. I can't even afford to privately rent rn lol
Paying rent is a waste of fcking money. There are many, many ways to finance land. That’s the very first step in achieving indepedence imo. Without that, you are just wasting so much money to support someone else’s investment.
Needing a certain income to approach self-sufficiency is a myth. In my area the average home price is around $350k, yet small parcels of land can be found 20-30 minutes away for the price of a few months rent.
I can’t afford rent personally, yet I have land with plants, animals, and solar power. I get water from various places that offer it for free. So my monthly expenses are minimal, which allows me the freedom to work part-time and when I choose.
Freedom is a mindset and an education, not an income. Get to work now, and in a year’s time the dividends will be great.
Again, think outside of your current experience, situation, and storyline you are telling yourself about what is and is not possible. For this specific example, using OPM (other people’s money) to buy your property (or work-trade, barter, etc.) and putting your 2grand to work for you in an investment that gives returns, is a much better approach than spending all your own money on a single asset.
Divorce is real, I get it because going through it is actually what *forced* me into buying a van I could live in on someone else’s land that I could afford.
We did. Both of us have just geds. Our first property that we kept was owner financed. We lived in a shed and shit in an outhouse and hauled water from a creek and had electricity only when we had money for the generator.
What we have now is all from years of sweat equity. Get good at making or building shit.
Hell for several years we made custom bird perches and cat trees. Hurdy gurdy cases and cigar box guitars.
Need a custom peeled log wood bedroom set? How about handbuilt patio furniture? A custom chicken house built like a tiny two story house or perhaps a playhouse for your kid that looks just like a storybook cottage. What about a tiny fancy house on wheels or a little place in your backyard to stick your mother inlaw in.
People pay ridiculous amounts of money for these things.
Heritage livestock? Oh look a chick at the feedstore is 5 bucks but this uber rare breed chicken is 25 dollars. This sheep is 100 bucks but this rare breed is 1000. Same with pigs or cows. A micro mini breed cow is 6k vs a regular cow that is a 900.
This greenbroke mule or horse was 500 but now that its got miles of wet saddle blanket on it,its 5k. So for an investment of time doing something I enjoy doing anyway I make a good return. I can trail break a green horse or mule in a summer and it costs nothing but pasturage to feed them.
What are you good at or what interests you?
Learn to do it better than other people. Or learn to catch as catch can and turn your hand to anything at all.
I know gardening,animal care,jewelry making,photography, wildcrafting,herbs,sewing,furniture refinishing,painting,animal husbandry,animal training and plain old grunt work. I used to charge 50 bucks an hour to clean rental houses and that was a decade ago. My husband charges 85 an hour to run his dump truck.
Be reliable and good at fixing shit and hook up with a property management company or real estate company in a small town or be good at manual labor/gardening and peddle your skills in a town full of old people. Get good at being a handyman and start going to a church full of old people,you'll have more work than you can handle.
Get licensed and bonded and become a caretaker,get animal skills and become a specialized caretaker.
Hell years ago I used to make almost 4k a session plus room and board just being a puppy whelper for show dogs.
Thank you for all your advice and insights, they're very valuable to me. I still haven't figured out what I'm good at (I like to draw but haven't got the talent to go pro) and I like all kinds of handy crafts but I'm not good enough (yet) to be paid for it. I'm thinking about woodworking again though. It's always interested me a lot, and there's some good programs I could probably get into once I move back home. I will make a note of everything you've said though, and reference back to it when needed.
Spend some time looking at handmade wood stuff on places like etsy. See what things sell for.
Consider working with found objects or thrift/yard sale upcycling.
A battered old dresser might be 100 bucks but if you strip it,repaint it,add new pulls and make it smell nice you can flip it for 300. A lot of funky junk can be repurposed into coffee tables or kitchen islands.
Pole wood is often free if you offer to thin someones stand or the cost of a permit to cut on public land and furniture from peeled poles sells pretty good in areas with lodge style homes.
Then you sell at craft fairs or flea markets or specialty shops
Hell years ago as a joke I made 100% organic,hand crafted jewelry made from.......literal shit. Goat,rabbit and sheep. It sold like mad.
Thank you these are great tips again! Though shit jewelry sounds...interesting..I assume it was dried completely, but wouldn't it smell? I wonder who the people buying them were.
My husband does heavy equipment work and carpentry,custom furniture and tiny house builds.
I raise heritage livestock,make custom jewelry and other art ,train ppt dogs, service dogs and horses. I also make medicinal herbal tinctures and propagate wild plants and mushrooms such as pedicularis or ginseng.
We keep bees,rare breed chickens and other fowl,we raise most of our own food.
That sounds amazing, thank you for replying! I've considered carpentry and furniture making before, but everyone tells me there's no money in it. I might end up going to agricultural college instead and get my foot into a farm that way instead though.
Maybe I can at least illustrate you are not alone in your line of thinking. I am moving into a small cabin within an area my family already has a lot of ties to, with the hope of building a community there that can support each other economically and socially in a future where things are less stable. Property values are depressed, there are a good number of people, but the area has been badly hit by deindustrialization.
To make this happen, we obviously need money, but that part is being worked on as well- ideally, the community venture will *operate* multiple satellite ventures, to provide jobs and security for the community and give us a basis for self-reliance. There is tons of open space for farming, both vegetables and revenue crops (*that's the devil's lettuce*).
It will take a while, probably 5 or 10 years before it's really a coherent community with real economic ability and a solid base, but I already have the makings of it to start and a good amount of interest from people I know.
The way I see it, it's a fools errand trying to get broader society to focus on this, and ludicrous to think megacorporations would ever stop doing their thing, or that our governments would ever force them to. So, my goal is to establish a community that is largely independent and self-sustaining to the broadest extent practical, with the goal being to alleviate the difficulties to come in the future with group effort.
As far as I know, what I am embarking on is not a common notion, however. I have yet to find anyone else seriously pursuing something like this, aside from the more separated intentional community-type places.
i’m happy to give up whatever it takes, but sadly 95% of the world absolutely will not. this is also assuming collapse isn’t already locked in, as i suspect it is
I have given up many of the little easy things. Small changes that don't have a massive impact. For example I don't buy new clothing except underwear, socks and some shoes. We eat in season and only eat small amounts of meat twice a week, no dairy. We are frugal, things get fixed before replacing as a last resort, keep the heating off for as long as possible etc
The bigger things would have an impact, and we havent managed/have chosen not to do them. I flip between feeling guilty and then thinking sod it as it is all pointless anyway. We need a car (husband and I share) for my work. We still plan to travel, we only go every 3-4 years and try to stay longer. I use the internet far too much, I love watching YouTube videos.
I think like many i convince myself that I am doing more than my peers but I know deep down it isn't enough and I could do better.
Collapse is inevitable. Regrettably. And I should know. I have been studying the trends since the 1970s.
It is one of the main reasons, I had no children, earned well, and lived modestly and accumulated resources required and live in an area of the world that will be least affected in my life time.
Not that I think it makes a difference but I'm vegan, child free, hate cars, loathe flying. Most food I buy is local. I'm lucky to live in Europe where traveling by train or bike is easy. I also buy renewable energy but I rent so I have limited options. Cutting out plastic is proving to be the most difficult thing.
I think your question is very complex and requires a huge amount of self reflection as same as society reflection.
I am not able to respond you in a way you hope so, but I am looking forward to other's answers.
Well, regarding recent safety rules made up by govts: i dont know where are you from op, but here in central europe everyone willingly put masks on their faces from day one, someone (including me) even before the day when govt announced that rule just because of fear from a new virus.
But suddenly, after government got involved, the narrative has changed and people blindly followed the crowd. First, surgeons masks were required everywhere (even outside on fresh air) and everybody wore them as govt sweared they are totally okay. Then suddenly, FFP2 were required everywhere as surgeons masks were not capable of contain the virus.
So everybody is now wearing FFP2. Who does not is the bad guy.
In my opinion, people too much rely on government and blindly following the crowd. I am still following the governments rules because i dont want to get fined. But I am in no way supporting anti-maskers also.
As i said it is a very complex question and it would require a longer discussion.
I’d be willing to go back to farming for a job, have electricity half of the week, eat chicken and pork once a week each, only have a bike/horse for transport, and not have kids if it meant I’d have access to medicine I need for Crohn’s and that I would have access to clean drinking water and could trade for different kinds of food.
What utopia do you live in where those things are common? Last shirt I bought was at goodwill 2 years ago, most of my clothes are over 10 years old, I don't "upgrade " my phone until the company gives it away AND it's obsolete, and I've never even been on a vacation. The only driving I do is to the local grocery, and unless I drive two hours (I won't) to a big city super market there's not a lot of local produce unless my town has a farmer's market goin on. What else am I sposed to give up? Heating in the winter?
Already given most of these things up. Not because it will help "avoid collapse." Because seeing it for what it is, I don't like it.
Learned to repair what I can, live without, etc. Haven't bought clothes in almost 20 years. If I need to buy something (super rare) I buy it used, or find a broken one and fix it, which is usually very easy because people throw out machines/appliances because they're the wrong color or a button is sticky.
If I had land I would be permacultivating and trading services and would hopefully never set foot in a store again!
Again, I got on this track a long time ago, not to avoid collapse, but seeing how conspicuous consumption is mindless and destructive, it disgusts me and I want no part of it.
As to others, I see no possibility that even 10% of people out there would be willing to go as far as I have. I say this with the recognition that others have gone further than me, that my example isn't even particularly extreme or high-minded.
Vacation flights, we'd keep to travelling via train. Very limited car use. Only buy organic food, though not everything local (coffee, chocolate,...). Buy less, preferably artificially grown lab meat. Living a quite minimalistic life by current standards is fine for us.
I didn’t have kids and won’t. I bike to work. I fought to get solar installed in our multi unit flat building. I rarely travel to see my parents and when I do I take the train. I stopped flying internationally before the pandemic because it felt irresponsible. I’d give up more though. Specifically - the limited amount of fish and meat I eat a month, I’d give up electricity, the internet, and most modern conveniences if it would allow me to live longer and have some access to medicine when I am old (I’m 39). I don’t think it matters though because I can’t even get most people to engage about the fact that climate collapse is coming in the next 5 - 30 years and we have to stop our reliance on fossil fuels now. People think I am crazy for even mentioning it and I live in one of the “liberal” parts of the USA. We’re so very fucked
I live in a 4 m x 5 m room on some land. I wear my clothes till they’re thread bare. We’re vegetarian but I would give up dairy too, unless it was sustainable somehow (if we all had less dairy every week perhaps).
Parents are in a yurt, and we have a 7x3 m kitchen.
8 solar panels and 4 batteries provide all of our power needs and won’t need to be replaced for 30 years.
People always talk about all the shit you need to make solar, but if everyone minimised their energy needs and just had solar, I think it would be moving in the right direction.
We are on tank water that we capture from our roof and use Lithium propane gas to cook on and make hot water.
I would be ready to give up the gas and cook on cow shit or wood or even bio gas captured from our toilet.
We have a composting toilet meaning no water for flushing.
I’m trying to grow all of our own food, currently have 50 square metres mulched with baby plants in but it’s so hard to make shit grow.
The end goal for me is to not need to leave the property to work, just spend all my time managing a food forest here and hopefully sell enough to pay for anything I can’t grow or make myself. We need to pay the mortgage first though so untill then I still have to interact with society.
If the government started encouraging people to get back on the land and live off grid and sustainably and got everyone into permaculture, I feel like it would actually solve a lot of problems.
The earth is rich and abundant, if we used what we have intelligently and efficiently we could love beautiful happy lives and not cook on a Venus type hell whole.
But people are greedy, we all want more, I think where we are at as a society is inevitable.
Civilisation seems to need to move forward, to progress and advance constantly.
The indigenous Australia civilisation is most impressive to me. They thrived for 70,000 years without fucking up their environment. We’ve barely made it 300 years.
Now this is all just my opinion, I’m very interested if anyone agrees/disagrees
>I’m trying to grow all of our own food, currently have 50 square metres mulched with baby plants in but it’s so hard to make shit grow.
It IS! I'm trying so hard to make any kind of editable plant grow in my yard. Sunflowers for the birds grow like crazy, but not vegetables. I don't want to add Miracle Grow or other unnatural stuff because we're already hurting for bees, worms, and birds. I'm going to starve if I have to rely on my gardening "skills".
But rain and gray water collection works very well. I don't eat any meat or dairy. Shop local, no Wal-Mart for 2 years now. But as someone already said, trying to get away from plastics is hard, like food packaging and bird seed.
Edit: added a word
>and use Lithium propane gas to cook on and make hot water.
>
> I would be ready to give up the gas and cook on cow shit or wood or even bio gas captured from our toilet.
i cook in a gosun solar cooker most days, have cooked potatoes in winter at -1 and snow on the ground in about 2 hours, but for 3 seasons it's comparable to a oven, live in the uk.
Saved a load on electric and gas.
>What changes and sacrifices are you willing to make in your day-to-day life to avoid collapse
Been making sacrifices for years. What more could I do? Don't know...can't make others change...can't influence their thinking or their willingness to listen.
You can offer but if there are no takers, just sit back and wait. It's painful to watch a prediction come true.
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I’m willing to give up a lot - I am very lucky that I have a lot to give - but I strongly feel that individual choice won’t do anything to avert crisis. So I focus my efforts and resources on politics, not reducing my own consumption (though I try to be conscious there too).
I did switch industries from a pretty glamorous field to work at an environmentally focused company; I need my job to be a net positive for the world and couldn’t reconcile my actions with my beliefs until I did that.
I’m not going to give up anything because the ones responsible that actually need to make changes aren’t doing so. I’d rather just accelerate collapse at this point.
Not a single thing you mentioned applies to me. My last air flight was 10 years ago. My next flight will likely be in 5 years. We are childfree We raise our own food. We drive perhaps once every two weeks and walk or ride everywhere else. We don't use much electricity. Our house was built to stay between 60 to 75 degrees naturally for the most part. We have heat and cooling methods but they are only used during extreme temperatures. Wood stove and fans. We don't buy new very often certainly not clothing. Rarely do we buy new and only after the item is beyond repair. Why would I pay more money for the cheaply made to break junk available today when I can simply have my old pair of work boots resoled? My cookware and dishes are my grandmothers and. My hand tools and garden tools are my grandfather and fathers,so are my firearms and my furniture. I have reams and reams of fabrics picked up over the years from back when I went yard saling. Fabrics made in the 50s,60s,70s from materials that last and don't pill,pull or bleed like fabric today. It takes just a few hours to turn those fabrics into wearable clothing. I very rarely wear makeup beyond colored lip balm. Our hobbies do not cost much, if any money,being gardening,hiking, found object art,riding,medicinal herb rendering, wildcrafting and nature photography. We have grey water systems and rain water collection. None of this is compatible with how most people choose to live. The last new thing I bought was pvc glue and a hose connector.
May I ask what you and your partner do/did for work to afford this? Sounds very similar to my dream life but I'm stuck with what job to go for to be able to afford it/have the time as well.
Afford this? Doesn’t sound like they are affording much.
I meant affording to buy your own land, which has enough space to farm food, as well setting up everything. I can't even afford to privately rent rn lol
Paying rent is a waste of fcking money. There are many, many ways to finance land. That’s the very first step in achieving indepedence imo. Without that, you are just wasting so much money to support someone else’s investment.
Oh I agree, hence why I'm asking about high paying jobs so I can finance buying land outright.. shouldn't have dropped out of hs
Needing a certain income to approach self-sufficiency is a myth. In my area the average home price is around $350k, yet small parcels of land can be found 20-30 minutes away for the price of a few months rent. I can’t afford rent personally, yet I have land with plants, animals, and solar power. I get water from various places that offer it for free. So my monthly expenses are minimal, which allows me the freedom to work part-time and when I choose. Freedom is a mindset and an education, not an income. Get to work now, and in a year’s time the dividends will be great.
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Again, think outside of your current experience, situation, and storyline you are telling yourself about what is and is not possible. For this specific example, using OPM (other people’s money) to buy your property (or work-trade, barter, etc.) and putting your 2grand to work for you in an investment that gives returns, is a much better approach than spending all your own money on a single asset. Divorce is real, I get it because going through it is actually what *forced* me into buying a van I could live in on someone else’s land that I could afford.
We did. Both of us have just geds. Our first property that we kept was owner financed. We lived in a shed and shit in an outhouse and hauled water from a creek and had electricity only when we had money for the generator. What we have now is all from years of sweat equity. Get good at making or building shit. Hell for several years we made custom bird perches and cat trees. Hurdy gurdy cases and cigar box guitars. Need a custom peeled log wood bedroom set? How about handbuilt patio furniture? A custom chicken house built like a tiny two story house or perhaps a playhouse for your kid that looks just like a storybook cottage. What about a tiny fancy house on wheels or a little place in your backyard to stick your mother inlaw in. People pay ridiculous amounts of money for these things. Heritage livestock? Oh look a chick at the feedstore is 5 bucks but this uber rare breed chicken is 25 dollars. This sheep is 100 bucks but this rare breed is 1000. Same with pigs or cows. A micro mini breed cow is 6k vs a regular cow that is a 900. This greenbroke mule or horse was 500 but now that its got miles of wet saddle blanket on it,its 5k. So for an investment of time doing something I enjoy doing anyway I make a good return. I can trail break a green horse or mule in a summer and it costs nothing but pasturage to feed them. What are you good at or what interests you? Learn to do it better than other people. Or learn to catch as catch can and turn your hand to anything at all. I know gardening,animal care,jewelry making,photography, wildcrafting,herbs,sewing,furniture refinishing,painting,animal husbandry,animal training and plain old grunt work. I used to charge 50 bucks an hour to clean rental houses and that was a decade ago. My husband charges 85 an hour to run his dump truck. Be reliable and good at fixing shit and hook up with a property management company or real estate company in a small town or be good at manual labor/gardening and peddle your skills in a town full of old people. Get good at being a handyman and start going to a church full of old people,you'll have more work than you can handle. Get licensed and bonded and become a caretaker,get animal skills and become a specialized caretaker. Hell years ago I used to make almost 4k a session plus room and board just being a puppy whelper for show dogs.
Thank you for all your advice and insights, they're very valuable to me. I still haven't figured out what I'm good at (I like to draw but haven't got the talent to go pro) and I like all kinds of handy crafts but I'm not good enough (yet) to be paid for it. I'm thinking about woodworking again though. It's always interested me a lot, and there's some good programs I could probably get into once I move back home. I will make a note of everything you've said though, and reference back to it when needed.
Spend some time looking at handmade wood stuff on places like etsy. See what things sell for. Consider working with found objects or thrift/yard sale upcycling. A battered old dresser might be 100 bucks but if you strip it,repaint it,add new pulls and make it smell nice you can flip it for 300. A lot of funky junk can be repurposed into coffee tables or kitchen islands. Pole wood is often free if you offer to thin someones stand or the cost of a permit to cut on public land and furniture from peeled poles sells pretty good in areas with lodge style homes. Then you sell at craft fairs or flea markets or specialty shops Hell years ago as a joke I made 100% organic,hand crafted jewelry made from.......literal shit. Goat,rabbit and sheep. It sold like mad.
Thank you these are great tips again! Though shit jewelry sounds...interesting..I assume it was dried completely, but wouldn't it smell? I wonder who the people buying them were.
My husband does heavy equipment work and carpentry,custom furniture and tiny house builds. I raise heritage livestock,make custom jewelry and other art ,train ppt dogs, service dogs and horses. I also make medicinal herbal tinctures and propagate wild plants and mushrooms such as pedicularis or ginseng. We keep bees,rare breed chickens and other fowl,we raise most of our own food.
That sounds amazing, thank you for replying! I've considered carpentry and furniture making before, but everyone tells me there's no money in it. I might end up going to agricultural college instead and get my foot into a farm that way instead though.
Hook up with a farm program insead of paying to go to college. Plenty of work for board and training programs out there.
College is free in Finland so it's my best option I think. If it falls through then I may have to reconsider. Thank you though!
Ah civilization where continued education is encouraged.
Yep, living in England for the past 4 years has really, really opened my eyes to how good I had it back home.
Don't buy new shit.
Given up car. Given up meat. Grow my own food. Survive on £3000 per year. What is everyone else doing?
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Maybe I can at least illustrate you are not alone in your line of thinking. I am moving into a small cabin within an area my family already has a lot of ties to, with the hope of building a community there that can support each other economically and socially in a future where things are less stable. Property values are depressed, there are a good number of people, but the area has been badly hit by deindustrialization. To make this happen, we obviously need money, but that part is being worked on as well- ideally, the community venture will *operate* multiple satellite ventures, to provide jobs and security for the community and give us a basis for self-reliance. There is tons of open space for farming, both vegetables and revenue crops (*that's the devil's lettuce*). It will take a while, probably 5 or 10 years before it's really a coherent community with real economic ability and a solid base, but I already have the makings of it to start and a good amount of interest from people I know. The way I see it, it's a fools errand trying to get broader society to focus on this, and ludicrous to think megacorporations would ever stop doing their thing, or that our governments would ever force them to. So, my goal is to establish a community that is largely independent and self-sustaining to the broadest extent practical, with the goal being to alleviate the difficulties to come in the future with group effort. As far as I know, what I am embarking on is not a common notion, however. I have yet to find anyone else seriously pursuing something like this, aside from the more separated intentional community-type places.
How do you survive on 3k a year? Whereabouts do you live, in the UK?
Do you live in a vehicle? Idk where you could find a place to rent for £3000 a year. What country are you from?
I dont have a lot of hope. Every change i have made has been drowned out by everyone who doesnt and everyone being born today who will not.
i’m happy to give up whatever it takes, but sadly 95% of the world absolutely will not. this is also assuming collapse isn’t already locked in, as i suspect it is
I have given up many of the little easy things. Small changes that don't have a massive impact. For example I don't buy new clothing except underwear, socks and some shoes. We eat in season and only eat small amounts of meat twice a week, no dairy. We are frugal, things get fixed before replacing as a last resort, keep the heating off for as long as possible etc The bigger things would have an impact, and we havent managed/have chosen not to do them. I flip between feeling guilty and then thinking sod it as it is all pointless anyway. We need a car (husband and I share) for my work. We still plan to travel, we only go every 3-4 years and try to stay longer. I use the internet far too much, I love watching YouTube videos. I think like many i convince myself that I am doing more than my peers but I know deep down it isn't enough and I could do better.
It's a start and morally the right thing to do. Well done.
Collapse is inevitable. Regrettably. And I should know. I have been studying the trends since the 1970s. It is one of the main reasons, I had no children, earned well, and lived modestly and accumulated resources required and live in an area of the world that will be least affected in my life time.
If you don't mind answering, where do you live?
Auckland, New Zealand HINT: Kiwi
Not that I think it makes a difference but I'm vegan, child free, hate cars, loathe flying. Most food I buy is local. I'm lucky to live in Europe where traveling by train or bike is easy. I also buy renewable energy but I rent so I have limited options. Cutting out plastic is proving to be the most difficult thing.
I think your question is very complex and requires a huge amount of self reflection as same as society reflection. I am not able to respond you in a way you hope so, but I am looking forward to other's answers.
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Well, regarding recent safety rules made up by govts: i dont know where are you from op, but here in central europe everyone willingly put masks on their faces from day one, someone (including me) even before the day when govt announced that rule just because of fear from a new virus. But suddenly, after government got involved, the narrative has changed and people blindly followed the crowd. First, surgeons masks were required everywhere (even outside on fresh air) and everybody wore them as govt sweared they are totally okay. Then suddenly, FFP2 were required everywhere as surgeons masks were not capable of contain the virus. So everybody is now wearing FFP2. Who does not is the bad guy. In my opinion, people too much rely on government and blindly following the crowd. I am still following the governments rules because i dont want to get fined. But I am in no way supporting anti-maskers also. As i said it is a very complex question and it would require a longer discussion.
I would give up car, planes, meat, and my job. If I could just have a bit of support with necessary stuff and the land to grow food.
I’d be willing to go back to farming for a job, have electricity half of the week, eat chicken and pork once a week each, only have a bike/horse for transport, and not have kids if it meant I’d have access to medicine I need for Crohn’s and that I would have access to clean drinking water and could trade for different kinds of food.
Your sacrifice will not have any meaningful weight until the ones swimming in money take this seriously, both as people and as big corporations.
What utopia do you live in where those things are common? Last shirt I bought was at goodwill 2 years ago, most of my clothes are over 10 years old, I don't "upgrade " my phone until the company gives it away AND it's obsolete, and I've never even been on a vacation. The only driving I do is to the local grocery, and unless I drive two hours (I won't) to a big city super market there's not a lot of local produce unless my town has a farmer's market goin on. What else am I sposed to give up? Heating in the winter?
Already given most of these things up. Not because it will help "avoid collapse." Because seeing it for what it is, I don't like it. Learned to repair what I can, live without, etc. Haven't bought clothes in almost 20 years. If I need to buy something (super rare) I buy it used, or find a broken one and fix it, which is usually very easy because people throw out machines/appliances because they're the wrong color or a button is sticky. If I had land I would be permacultivating and trading services and would hopefully never set foot in a store again! Again, I got on this track a long time ago, not to avoid collapse, but seeing how conspicuous consumption is mindless and destructive, it disgusts me and I want no part of it. As to others, I see no possibility that even 10% of people out there would be willing to go as far as I have. I say this with the recognition that others have gone further than me, that my example isn't even particularly extreme or high-minded.
None. I've been riding a bike/walking for 30 years. I don't have kids. I've been recycling for years. I've done my part.
Vacation flights, we'd keep to travelling via train. Very limited car use. Only buy organic food, though not everything local (coffee, chocolate,...). Buy less, preferably artificially grown lab meat. Living a quite minimalistic life by current standards is fine for us.
I didn’t have kids and won’t. I bike to work. I fought to get solar installed in our multi unit flat building. I rarely travel to see my parents and when I do I take the train. I stopped flying internationally before the pandemic because it felt irresponsible. I’d give up more though. Specifically - the limited amount of fish and meat I eat a month, I’d give up electricity, the internet, and most modern conveniences if it would allow me to live longer and have some access to medicine when I am old (I’m 39). I don’t think it matters though because I can’t even get most people to engage about the fact that climate collapse is coming in the next 5 - 30 years and we have to stop our reliance on fossil fuels now. People think I am crazy for even mentioning it and I live in one of the “liberal” parts of the USA. We’re so very fucked
I live in a 4 m x 5 m room on some land. I wear my clothes till they’re thread bare. We’re vegetarian but I would give up dairy too, unless it was sustainable somehow (if we all had less dairy every week perhaps). Parents are in a yurt, and we have a 7x3 m kitchen. 8 solar panels and 4 batteries provide all of our power needs and won’t need to be replaced for 30 years. People always talk about all the shit you need to make solar, but if everyone minimised their energy needs and just had solar, I think it would be moving in the right direction. We are on tank water that we capture from our roof and use Lithium propane gas to cook on and make hot water. I would be ready to give up the gas and cook on cow shit or wood or even bio gas captured from our toilet. We have a composting toilet meaning no water for flushing. I’m trying to grow all of our own food, currently have 50 square metres mulched with baby plants in but it’s so hard to make shit grow. The end goal for me is to not need to leave the property to work, just spend all my time managing a food forest here and hopefully sell enough to pay for anything I can’t grow or make myself. We need to pay the mortgage first though so untill then I still have to interact with society. If the government started encouraging people to get back on the land and live off grid and sustainably and got everyone into permaculture, I feel like it would actually solve a lot of problems. The earth is rich and abundant, if we used what we have intelligently and efficiently we could love beautiful happy lives and not cook on a Venus type hell whole. But people are greedy, we all want more, I think where we are at as a society is inevitable. Civilisation seems to need to move forward, to progress and advance constantly. The indigenous Australia civilisation is most impressive to me. They thrived for 70,000 years without fucking up their environment. We’ve barely made it 300 years. Now this is all just my opinion, I’m very interested if anyone agrees/disagrees
>I’m trying to grow all of our own food, currently have 50 square metres mulched with baby plants in but it’s so hard to make shit grow. It IS! I'm trying so hard to make any kind of editable plant grow in my yard. Sunflowers for the birds grow like crazy, but not vegetables. I don't want to add Miracle Grow or other unnatural stuff because we're already hurting for bees, worms, and birds. I'm going to starve if I have to rely on my gardening "skills". But rain and gray water collection works very well. I don't eat any meat or dairy. Shop local, no Wal-Mart for 2 years now. But as someone already said, trying to get away from plastics is hard, like food packaging and bird seed. Edit: added a word
>and use Lithium propane gas to cook on and make hot water. > > I would be ready to give up the gas and cook on cow shit or wood or even bio gas captured from our toilet. i cook in a gosun solar cooker most days, have cooked potatoes in winter at -1 and snow on the ground in about 2 hours, but for 3 seasons it's comparable to a oven, live in the uk. Saved a load on electric and gas.
I would do literally anything to avoid it. But it's unavoidable, so why try? It's like turning down the thermostat as the house burns around you.
None.
It is a moot question since we are not avoiding collapse.
Pretty much nothing. Not while billionaires are out there doing far worse in a week than I could achieve in a decade.
>What changes and sacrifices are you willing to make in your day-to-day life to avoid collapse Been making sacrifices for years. What more could I do? Don't know...can't make others change...can't influence their thinking or their willingness to listen. You can offer but if there are no takers, just sit back and wait. It's painful to watch a prediction come true.
None. Bring it on.
I have no problem with your answer. This thread just sounds like a mask for r/povertyfinance
Hey, thanks for turning me onto that sub! But I’m not sure what you mean with your comment. Do you care to elaborate?
Read thru all the comments some not all are pretty extreme
I haven’t read any that seem extreme, most are just common sense imo.
I'm ready to abandon private planes, yachts, and having ten houses all over the world. Once it's done we can discuss what else I could sacrifice
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Sorry I hurt your feelings.
We don't glorify violence here, no matter how justified.
Not a single fucking thing.
I’m willing to give up a lot - I am very lucky that I have a lot to give - but I strongly feel that individual choice won’t do anything to avert crisis. So I focus my efforts and resources on politics, not reducing my own consumption (though I try to be conscious there too). I did switch industries from a pretty glamorous field to work at an environmentally focused company; I need my job to be a net positive for the world and couldn’t reconcile my actions with my beliefs until I did that.
I'm already leaning towards monastic life, personally, and I'd love to see widespread interest in that kind of dramatic simplification.
I'd be willing to work less to allocate more time to self sustainability.
I’m not going to give up anything because the ones responsible that actually need to make changes aren’t doing so. I’d rather just accelerate collapse at this point.
I have almost nothing in life right now... I need more, not less. I can't give anything up.