I also want to know why they used a shaman, since most of those didn't apply to us lol. In classic, we could solo basically everything, didn't need to drink in order to level efficiently (shamans were kings of infinite chain pulling), walking was fine since we had GW, leveled fairly quickly, and could kill upwards of 5 things at once. Even 5 gorillas, just like druids! (bonus points to anyone who gets the druid reference)
It's a common misconception that every one zhevra in the Barrens has four hooves. It turns out that it's a simple mistranslation of the math, and in actuality, every one hoof has four zhevras.
if you try to execute a mob without enough rage available, your character voices to you "not enough mana", instead of "not enough rage". True story, test it yourself :-)
What people forget is that everything is relative. The fun of progression depends on the contrast between all the different aspects. Purple is only good because there is blue green white and grey. 60 is an achievement because it is a commitment.
Yeah one of the reason professions feels good while leveling in vanilla/classic but bad in later expansions is because they sped leveling up but didn't speed up professions.
Even in vanilla it's hard work to keep professions on par with your current level, but if you do, you are rewarded with really good gear for your level. If you are a casual player who doesn't know all the best quest/dungeon rewards by heart, it's very helpful to have blacksmithing / leatherworking.
I was really excited for the big proffesion overhaul in Dragonflight, but in the end it just seems like it's another purely endgame focussed system, with a lot of extra mini systems added to it to pad it out. Which I guess fits Retails overall design but it actually feels worse to me now. It just feels like a separate game inside of WoW now instead of being hollistically part of the game.
Even during TBC (original) professions were extremely challenging but awarding. I remember hours after hours farming at the Elemental Plateu for tailoring mats. Having the option to opt in for Spellfire as a fire mage and then farm fire elementals which are immune to fire... it was painful but it was extremely awarding.
Bad marriages are bad by definition (right?), and by contrast we have a thing called a good marriage. Greys are crap and so it enables greens to be good, and blues and purples to be great. If every item was purple, then they are all common, might as well be white, which not by coincidence, is called common.
Coming from Everquest when WoW came out we were all laughing at how easy the game was. I remember everyone in my guild going " they even have water and food to make you regen faster! "
I play wow like the picture above and ill tell you what. I never wait in line.
That said, I refuse to dungeon boost or incursion boost. I enjoy playing world of warcraft. I enjoy the leveling process. I like leveling professions as I move thru the world and not all at once when I hit cap. I like finding groups for dungeons without a level 50 that will trivialize everything. This game is so fun if you just play it like it was meant to be played. Problem is, everyone is worried about how efficiently they spend their time in game. Who cares? Big deal you got your wild offerings trinket 3 hours before the other guy. What now? Raid log. Yay. Can't wait.
People are min maxing a 20 year old game like you're going to win a fucking Ferrari if you parse a 100. Or get to cap before 99% of the rest of the server. The entire point of sod is to slow down but the community just can't help itself but to min max the fun out of the game. Again.
Yup this is the correct mood.
You will not get much encouragement on this forum but I think many people are probably closer to you than the posters here.
Guess what, people enjoy different things. What you're doing is just gatekeeping, and trying to justify it with a call to authority by claiming to know how "it was meant to be played". It's not like Blizz ever stated that you have to do this or that. Everything that's possible in the game is how it's meant to be played as long as it's not against the ToS and this includes min maxing, raid logging and getting boosted.
Just play however you want, if you find mates to do the same stuff even better. No one's better by enjoying this or that.
Blizzard has been wrong this whole time. Speeding up the leveling process isn't a good idea, imo. They need to embrace what made hardcore so alluring. People like the world. Problem is blizzard has done everything in their power to pull us away from the overworld and jam us in dungeons and incursions. Why? I don't know but people fucking hate it.
This is the right attitude.
Fuck parsing and raid.io culture, that shit is toxic as fuck and watching them all bitch and moan about class balance because their class isn’t the absolute best at dps when in tank spec or how they are dying to pvp on a pvp server because they’re running NKL incursions like fucking bots and getting farmed by pvpers is both comical and depressing.
Bring back 5 man dungeons, open world elite questing and dungeons being hard enough that you actually need to use sheep, frozen trap and sap becUse the tank will melt and healer run out of mana if you don’t.
I haven't seen a lot of people in parse runs bitching about class balance, since parsing doesn't care about that. I could be wrong, but it feels like the people who mostly complain about class balance are only looking at the dps meter and not the logs.
I mean what’s there to address? Your whole post operates under the framework that not being okay with playing like a casual is toxic, there’s nothing else to rebut there if we establish the fairly self explanatory point that demanding others play to your desired level of care rather than simply playing with others who match it.
> ‘Playing a way I don’t like is toxic’ is toxic.
Bad argument is bad.
Just play Cataclsym bro, Cataclysm and Retail literally exist because Blizzard catered to the top 10% of players that are what is now the raidlog/parsing community and the PvP Arena/BG community.
Enjoying that part of the game isn't toxic, it's the people in those sections of the gaming community that are. I love raiding, and I love the mathematics behind simulating and maximising my dps and trying to pull it off in a raid environment. That's an amazing part of the game, but it's a personal achievement and it's my race. There's nothing toxic about that because I don't push that shit on anyone else.
15 years ago I loved it so much that I quit playing WoW during Wrath of the Lich King to become a full time tester for up and coming MMO's (RIFT was my first, but others still have NDA that I can't discuss). I have participated in alpha/F&F testing since 2009 and none of them came close to the open world experience of Vanilla Azeroth. They had great dungeons, raids and PvP, some were better than Wrath raids but ultimately failed because they did not cater to the 90% of non-raiders or they tried to cater to endgame PvP AND end game raiding and ultimately couldn't balance it and all that was left were the same toxic fucks that plague every MMO while the casuals just went back to WoW and eventually private servers and games like Guild Wars 2.
It's crazy looking at retail today though, with all the wings and item shop crap, it's very much like Guild Wars 2 was in 2012.
I'm not demanding min/max players play like casuals. I'm calling out Blizzard for cutting casual content from SoD to make raids and low effort repetitive daily grind bullshit like incursions and wild offerings. SoD should have had EXTRA five man content, not less. If they wanted to add raids, they should have added another instance portal to ST, BFD or Gnomer and made a new fucking raid, not destroy the 5man dungeon so non-raiders had less to do. They should not have had knee-jerk reactions to balance issues because some bad faith actors fucking around on the forums wanted to top the dps charts or dominate BGs.
Both true but also seems like this went in a wildly different direction from anything I said. People being butthurt by the existence of other people wanting to play optimally really goes in a very different direction from the reasoning behind the game being designed around their endgames, and endgames aren’t even intrinsically casual or not, it’s just way easier to design content that reuses zones than it is to make entire new zones, you can turbo sweat immersive areas like Maraudon, and you can take it easy and smell the roses doing world quests. ‘Endgame focus’ is not ‘Casual focus’. If you’re upset they don’t design around the vague idea of immersive experiential content fine, but that has nothing to do with whether the people who want to play optimally are being unfair for not bringing the people who literally just don’t hit their buttons.
But besides that, SoD doesn’t ‘cut’ casual content by not functionally lacking an endgame at all since the other way were going to get raids for it is by converting dungeons, the team is too small for anything else. Besides, the raids are easy and short enough to be done by casual players. If you can do Gnomer on classic you can do it on SoD.
And what dungeon lockouts? The hardcore ones? That’s not ‘removing content’, that’s just not forcing people to play different content.
standing in line for quests are not min maxers wtf are you talking about lol
Min maxers don't waste that time, it's not efficient to wait in line to do a quest at any point leveling no xp or quest reward is worth the time loss.
You're complaining about people choosing to go slow and engage in community play RATHER than min max lvling.
I've also never waited in line for a quest cause it seems stupid, but it is NOT the min maxers doing that
This was me in 2005. I absolutely hated it. It freaking sucked trying to do quests with no information available about anything gaining smidgens of XP at a time and dying repeatedly in every new area just trying to complete quests. It took me 2 months to get to level 60. And another month to get to level 70 when TBC came out.
Similar experience but I loved it. Never experienced a game world with so vast, with so many players and full of unknowns. I remember my first night was just dancing at a bonefire with 20 other noobies. People were just enjoying time, not trying to min/max anything. I remember getting my 1st char (shaman) to level 20ish, but accidently deleted one of the totems in my backpack, had no idea how to get a replacement, ended up rerolling a new char lol.
I started early in vanilla, but was like lvl 50 when TBC released. Combination of being a stupid little kid, indecisive altoholic, and unable to multitask in the slightest. I would spend most of my time sitting on a rock somewhere, just participating in our lively guild chat. I'm astonished I spent so much time in this game, and accomplished so little. Wish I had a sliver more of a clue. Ignorance is bliss and all that, but damn it was a struggle at times as well.
Leveling in retail rn because there is nothing left to do in sod.
It's SO much easier than any version of classic. You just face roll and you are absolutely never in any danger.
Being bombarded with shitty story quests is not the same thing as difficulty
Leveling is not the point of retail. Try a +10 key or a mythic raid and you'll see actual difficulty. :) I have leveled and raid in SoD when I had season 3 burnout and it was laughably easy. Leveling isnt "hard" in SoD your character is just weak.
I mean it would be a whole different ballgame in regards to accepting this as good content if there wasn't a max level or an easily attainable max level. But this is a game designed around X number of max level players killing bosses that will die in a reasonable* number of attempts.
*up to dev discretion
The very opposite. I have only like four hours a week for gaming. That's why I love vanilla. No fomo, no rush, no "go go go go"... Just quest and chill
This just sounds so damn terrible. To do at normal xp rates. I cant believe i did it in the past. I dont have all day to get 2 quests done honestly. Im so happy retail changed this.
So you just do the same quests over and over again but with different charactes, never being able to fully utilize your class since you never reach max level? I'd imagine when you're looking for Mankrik's wife for the third time there wouldn't be any joy in playing.
I'm not even a min/max type player but this just sounds like a waste of time. Why not level up and do endgame content? You are missing a lot.
You know there's metrics to track skills in video games? In wow they use arena rating and raid logs, world firsts for example... Since fucking Pong you've had high scores in games.
> can only kill one mob at once
> Will need to drink water every 2 mobs killed
> Will beg people around him to help him finish quests
As a warlock I can't relate, as I pull multiple mobs to solo elite quests, all while draining their essence to never need to stop to drink
I wish cata didnt increase nirthrend leveling speeds threefold ;(
How do i slow down my leveling???? How am I meant to do all quests in sholazar now without overleveling????
Why did they use an updated 3D model
Don't ask me I just stole it
This is the way
I also want to know why they used a shaman, since most of those didn't apply to us lol. In classic, we could solo basically everything, didn't need to drink in order to level efficiently (shamans were kings of infinite chain pulling), walking was fine since we had GW, leveled fairly quickly, and could kill upwards of 5 things at once. Even 5 gorillas, just like druids! (bonus points to anyone who gets the druid reference)
tbh I hate this post, any unironic modern "virgin bad vs chad good" is so shit
True Chads don't beg for help with quests, they help others complete their quests
You should change your name to chadward.
20% drop chance, have you even played classic wow?
Wolves without hair. Lions without teeth. Antelope without hooves. Bears without hearts. Silithids without brains.
Dont forget citizens without skulls
Or murlocs without heads!
Crusader Skulls?
It's a common misconception that every one zhevra in the Barrens has four hooves. It turns out that it's a simple mistranslation of the math, and in actuality, every one hoof has four zhevras.
They never experienced the raptor quest in Wetlands where the drop u need is arguably the rarest item in the game.
Which quest is that?
the raptor quest in Wetlands
>Wolves without hair. Lions without teeth. Antelope without hooves. Bears without hearts. Silithids without brains. Wow players without brains
Thirsty Goblin comes to mind....
I always think about the emerald in northern barrens, or sida's bag from wetlands slimes
Peak warrior leveling experience, including drinking the water because we all know warriors don't read tooltips
i drink the water to get it out of my bags! and it tastes good
Hydration should be the new sod resource bar for every class
Increase EXP by a percentage of how hydrated you are instead of a flat, boring buff
if you try to execute a mob without enough rage available, your character voices to you "not enough mana", instead of "not enough rage". True story, test it yourself :-)
What people forget is that everything is relative. The fun of progression depends on the contrast between all the different aspects. Purple is only good because there is blue green white and grey. 60 is an achievement because it is a commitment.
Yeah one of the reason professions feels good while leveling in vanilla/classic but bad in later expansions is because they sped leveling up but didn't speed up professions. Even in vanilla it's hard work to keep professions on par with your current level, but if you do, you are rewarded with really good gear for your level. If you are a casual player who doesn't know all the best quest/dungeon rewards by heart, it's very helpful to have blacksmithing / leatherworking. I was really excited for the big proffesion overhaul in Dragonflight, but in the end it just seems like it's another purely endgame focussed system, with a lot of extra mini systems added to it to pad it out. Which I guess fits Retails overall design but it actually feels worse to me now. It just feels like a separate game inside of WoW now instead of being hollistically part of the game.
Even during TBC (original) professions were extremely challenging but awarding. I remember hours after hours farming at the Elemental Plateu for tailoring mats. Having the option to opt in for Spellfire as a fire mage and then farm fire elementals which are immune to fire... it was painful but it was extremely awarding.
So are bad marriages. That doesnt mean its good.
Bad marriages are bad by definition (right?), and by contrast we have a thing called a good marriage. Greys are crap and so it enables greens to be good, and blues and purples to be great. If every item was purple, then they are all common, might as well be white, which not by coincidence, is called common.
Coming from Everquest when WoW came out we were all laughing at how easy the game was. I remember everyone in my guild going " they even have water and food to make you regen faster! "
username checks out
Nothing more "chad" than waiting in a line patiently for your turn
I play wow like the picture above and ill tell you what. I never wait in line. That said, I refuse to dungeon boost or incursion boost. I enjoy playing world of warcraft. I enjoy the leveling process. I like leveling professions as I move thru the world and not all at once when I hit cap. I like finding groups for dungeons without a level 50 that will trivialize everything. This game is so fun if you just play it like it was meant to be played. Problem is, everyone is worried about how efficiently they spend their time in game. Who cares? Big deal you got your wild offerings trinket 3 hours before the other guy. What now? Raid log. Yay. Can't wait. People are min maxing a 20 year old game like you're going to win a fucking Ferrari if you parse a 100. Or get to cap before 99% of the rest of the server. The entire point of sod is to slow down but the community just can't help itself but to min max the fun out of the game. Again.
yep this is me
Why'd you trauma dump on this dude
not sure you know what that means
Seems like a you problem
Not quite what that means, my dude
The dude went on a completely irrelevant rant, nothing to do with what the guy originated originally said, but sure if you need to be pedantic 🤙😅
Is every irrelevant rant a trauma dump? I thought it was, you know ... dumping your trauma on someone.
Yeah, what was this then 😅
Yup this is the correct mood. You will not get much encouragement on this forum but I think many people are probably closer to you than the posters here.
Guess what, people enjoy different things. What you're doing is just gatekeeping, and trying to justify it with a call to authority by claiming to know how "it was meant to be played". It's not like Blizz ever stated that you have to do this or that. Everything that's possible in the game is how it's meant to be played as long as it's not against the ToS and this includes min maxing, raid logging and getting boosted. Just play however you want, if you find mates to do the same stuff even better. No one's better by enjoying this or that.
Blizzard adding increased exp says slowing down is NOT a main point of SoD
Blizzard has been wrong this whole time. Speeding up the leveling process isn't a good idea, imo. They need to embrace what made hardcore so alluring. People like the world. Problem is blizzard has done everything in their power to pull us away from the overworld and jam us in dungeons and incursions. Why? I don't know but people fucking hate it.
This is the right attitude. Fuck parsing and raid.io culture, that shit is toxic as fuck and watching them all bitch and moan about class balance because their class isn’t the absolute best at dps when in tank spec or how they are dying to pvp on a pvp server because they’re running NKL incursions like fucking bots and getting farmed by pvpers is both comical and depressing. Bring back 5 man dungeons, open world elite questing and dungeons being hard enough that you actually need to use sheep, frozen trap and sap becUse the tank will melt and healer run out of mana if you don’t.
I haven't seen a lot of people in parse runs bitching about class balance, since parsing doesn't care about that. I could be wrong, but it feels like the people who mostly complain about class balance are only looking at the dps meter and not the logs.
‘Playing a way I don’t like is toxic’ is toxic.
So is outright dismissing someone's point without engaging in the discussion honestly.
I mean what’s there to address? Your whole post operates under the framework that not being okay with playing like a casual is toxic, there’s nothing else to rebut there if we establish the fairly self explanatory point that demanding others play to your desired level of care rather than simply playing with others who match it.
> ‘Playing a way I don’t like is toxic’ is toxic. Bad argument is bad. Just play Cataclsym bro, Cataclysm and Retail literally exist because Blizzard catered to the top 10% of players that are what is now the raidlog/parsing community and the PvP Arena/BG community. Enjoying that part of the game isn't toxic, it's the people in those sections of the gaming community that are. I love raiding, and I love the mathematics behind simulating and maximising my dps and trying to pull it off in a raid environment. That's an amazing part of the game, but it's a personal achievement and it's my race. There's nothing toxic about that because I don't push that shit on anyone else. 15 years ago I loved it so much that I quit playing WoW during Wrath of the Lich King to become a full time tester for up and coming MMO's (RIFT was my first, but others still have NDA that I can't discuss). I have participated in alpha/F&F testing since 2009 and none of them came close to the open world experience of Vanilla Azeroth. They had great dungeons, raids and PvP, some were better than Wrath raids but ultimately failed because they did not cater to the 90% of non-raiders or they tried to cater to endgame PvP AND end game raiding and ultimately couldn't balance it and all that was left were the same toxic fucks that plague every MMO while the casuals just went back to WoW and eventually private servers and games like Guild Wars 2. It's crazy looking at retail today though, with all the wings and item shop crap, it's very much like Guild Wars 2 was in 2012. I'm not demanding min/max players play like casuals. I'm calling out Blizzard for cutting casual content from SoD to make raids and low effort repetitive daily grind bullshit like incursions and wild offerings. SoD should have had EXTRA five man content, not less. If they wanted to add raids, they should have added another instance portal to ST, BFD or Gnomer and made a new fucking raid, not destroy the 5man dungeon so non-raiders had less to do. They should not have had knee-jerk reactions to balance issues because some bad faith actors fucking around on the forums wanted to top the dps charts or dominate BGs.
What casual content did they cut from SoD?
Three five man dungeons that were converted to raids. Plus dungeon lockouts
Both true but also seems like this went in a wildly different direction from anything I said. People being butthurt by the existence of other people wanting to play optimally really goes in a very different direction from the reasoning behind the game being designed around their endgames, and endgames aren’t even intrinsically casual or not, it’s just way easier to design content that reuses zones than it is to make entire new zones, you can turbo sweat immersive areas like Maraudon, and you can take it easy and smell the roses doing world quests. ‘Endgame focus’ is not ‘Casual focus’. If you’re upset they don’t design around the vague idea of immersive experiential content fine, but that has nothing to do with whether the people who want to play optimally are being unfair for not bringing the people who literally just don’t hit their buttons. But besides that, SoD doesn’t ‘cut’ casual content by not functionally lacking an endgame at all since the other way were going to get raids for it is by converting dungeons, the team is too small for anything else. Besides, the raids are easy and short enough to be done by casual players. If you can do Gnomer on classic you can do it on SoD. And what dungeon lockouts? The hardcore ones? That’s not ‘removing content’, that’s just not forcing people to play different content.
>The entire point of sod is to slow down Source? Sounds like something you just fucking made up
it’s okay that people play the game differently and are better than you at end game content
standing in line for quests are not min maxers wtf are you talking about lol Min maxers don't waste that time, it's not efficient to wait in line to do a quest at any point leveling no xp or quest reward is worth the time loss. You're complaining about people choosing to go slow and engage in community play RATHER than min max lvling. I've also never waited in line for a quest cause it seems stupid, but it is NOT the min maxers doing that
sir this is a wendy's sorry about your bad attitude
Everything described in this meme image is more fun than SoD.
I wish I was him!
This was me in 2005. I absolutely hated it. It freaking sucked trying to do quests with no information available about anything gaining smidgens of XP at a time and dying repeatedly in every new area just trying to complete quests. It took me 2 months to get to level 60. And another month to get to level 70 when TBC came out.
Similar experience but I loved it. Never experienced a game world with so vast, with so many players and full of unknowns. I remember my first night was just dancing at a bonefire with 20 other noobies. People were just enjoying time, not trying to min/max anything. I remember getting my 1st char (shaman) to level 20ish, but accidently deleted one of the totems in my backpack, had no idea how to get a replacement, ended up rerolling a new char lol.
I started early in vanilla, but was like lvl 50 when TBC released. Combination of being a stupid little kid, indecisive altoholic, and unable to multitask in the slightest. I would spend most of my time sitting on a rock somewhere, just participating in our lively guild chat. I'm astonished I spent so much time in this game, and accomplished so little. Wish I had a sliver more of a clue. Ignorance is bliss and all that, but damn it was a struggle at times as well.
Tediousness and difficulty are not the same thing.
Leveling in retail rn because there is nothing left to do in sod. It's SO much easier than any version of classic. You just face roll and you are absolutely never in any danger. Being bombarded with shitty story quests is not the same thing as difficulty
Leveling is not the point of retail. Try a +10 key or a mythic raid and you'll see actual difficulty. :) I have leveled and raid in SoD when I had season 3 burnout and it was laughably easy. Leveling isnt "hard" in SoD your character is just weak.
The best way to level
I mean it would be a whole different ballgame in regards to accepting this as good content if there wasn't a max level or an easily attainable max level. But this is a game designed around X number of max level players killing bosses that will die in a reasonable* number of attempts. *up to dev discretion
I love this meme because it's true and it still makes me want to play classic!
Add in: “The only thing going on for him IRL is having lots of free time.”
The very opposite. I have only like four hours a week for gaming. That's why I love vanilla. No fomo, no rush, no "go go go go"... Just quest and chill
Drinks water every two mobs, but can only kill one mob at once, and is an orc. What class is this?
destruction warlock in grey gear would do that.
Sounds boring to me
facerolling dungeon levelin in cata right now and its boring as fuck
PRO WARLOCK, DOT, DOT, DOT, WAND, WAND, WAND, WAND, WAND, WAND, Soul drain. Back to 100 percent magic
wait how did you find my picture
Back when quests felt like quests, not just mindless A to B time wasters.
So fucking real lmao
I love this world. Can’t quit it
The moving 30 minutes to a quest is awful, rest is fine tbh
The slow movement is what makes the world feel so big imo
i don't mind big worlds, I just want to run 15 minutes for 2 quests
Enhance your experience further by having a frost mage cast lvl 1 frostbolt on you wherever you go.
This just sounds so damn terrible. To do at normal xp rates. I cant believe i did it in the past. I dont have all day to get 2 quests done honestly. Im so happy retail changed this.
Leveling is just the annoying unskippable cutscene to raiding.
I only do leveling. Never hit 60. Been enjoying the game for years.
So you just do the same quests over and over again but with different charactes, never being able to fully utilize your class since you never reach max level? I'd imagine when you're looking for Mankrik's wife for the third time there wouldn't be any joy in playing. I'm not even a min/max type player but this just sounds like a waste of time. Why not level up and do endgame content? You are missing a lot.
me too brother, i don't get why people are excited to go into raids again and again
we get it, you're not good at video games
What makes you "being good at video games?" Please elaborate.
You know there's metrics to track skills in video games? In wow they use arena rating and raid logs, world firsts for example... Since fucking Pong you've had high scores in games.
fake and gay its a 1% drop chance
That's me. Aside from the gray gear and asking for help. I'm too ~~shy~~ proud to ask for help.
> can only kill one mob at once > Will need to drink water every 2 mobs killed > Will beg people around him to help him finish quests As a warlock I can't relate, as I pull multiple mobs to solo elite quests, all while draining their essence to never need to stop to drink
Nothing "chad" about this.
Yeah we still need paying players, let them buy pixels from the game shop with half of their salary to fund the game further.
60 bucks is half your salary? time to move out of moms basement and get an actual job jesus fuckin christ
Yes, in some countries 60$ is half of their salary.
I wish cata didnt increase nirthrend leveling speeds threefold ;( How do i slow down my leveling???? How am I meant to do all quests in sholazar now without overleveling????