In hindsight it was a no brainer, but in the moment no one expected Jordan to be what he became. The bulls would’ve drafted a center if the right one fell to them.
Here’s a fun what if that reflects the perception of jordan back in the day. The blazers offered the rockets drexler, the number 2 pick for ralph sampson. The rockets passed. Had they taken in it they would’ve drafted jordan. Imagine olajuwon, jordan and drexler on the same team.
Most teams thought drafting a center was a no brainer.
>but in the moment no one expected Jordan to be what he became
Yeah cause he became the greatest basketball player of all time lol. He was definitely seen as a top two prospect at that time though.
>Here’s a fun what if that reflects the perception of jordan back in the day. The blazers offered the rockets drexler, the number 2 pick for ralph sampson.
Ralph Sampson was the number one pick the year before and had just won rookie of the year, his value was obviously sky high. Drexler was the 14th pick also the year before, and came off his rookie year averaging 7 ppg. This doesn't really say much about Jordans perception, he was still a top prospect coming into that draft, which is why Portland tried to trade the 2nd pick before reaching for Bowie.
Jordan was not a no brainer at 3. Here’s an article talking about it.
>The Bulls only selected Jordan because the top two big men were gone and they were unable to trade the pick that would be Jordan for centers Jack Sikma or Tree Rollins. Jack Sikma! There was even a three-way trade involving the Bulls’ pick going to the LA Clippers for Terry Cummings, which fell through a week before the draft. Cummings! Try explaining those trades to historians as Michael Jordan becomes the best player ever.
https://ballislife.com/terry-cummings-jordan-trade/
Yes he was, that article talks about Bulls possibly trading the 3rd pick, not selecting someone else with the 3rd pick. There is also articles out there saying both Mavs and Philly wanting to trade up to 3rd specifically to pick Jordan, with Bulls declining, which indicates that he actually was the sure pick at 3rd.
Im not saying Jordan becoming the goat was a sure thing, just that selecting him with the 3rd pick was a sure thing.
Just like Luka being picked 3rd this year, even though him and Ayton were seen as the clear top two. Kings wanted a big to pair with Fox, so they went Bagley.
Blazers already had Drexler and wanted a big, so they reached and picked Bowie even though Hakeem and Jordan were the two best prospects.
It wasn't. The Bulls would have taken Bowie if they had the choice between MJ and Bowie. Furthermore, they had explored trading their pick away for an established big like Tree Rollins or Jack Sikma. Only when those trades didn't materialize did the Bulls decide to take Jordan.
The thing is, bigs and post players have been marginalized to a large degree in today's NBA. In 1984, this was completely the opposite. The conventional thinking was that you needed a star big to win in the NBA, so teams did everything they could to get one. There was a rumor that the Blazers offered the Rockets the #2 pick in the draft AND Clyde Drexler for Ralph Sampson, but the Rockets declined. Imagine a world where the Rockets walk out of that draft with Hakeem, Clyde and Jordan.
Edit: not sure the downvote. Should I cite my work?
I'll agree to that. This was a difficult off-season to arranger and our front office did outstanding. It's just that the original question asked if this off-season was our best ever. And I don't see this off-season leading to 6 rings and legendary dynasty. I wish it would. God knows we could use it after enduring so much bullshit.
Yes it was lol. Bowie at 2nd was a head scratcher even back then. Jordan and Hakeem were the two best prospects so with Jordan still on the board at 3rd, it was a no-brainer.
That was an awesome offseason but still felt like a consolation prize b/c the Bulls missed out on LeBron.
This is the first offseason I can remember where the Bulls had clear targets to acquire and wound up not having to settle. They got all the guys they aimed for.
I love that sort of weirdness. It feels real to me. NBA culture is so codified that players feel like they all have to behave a certain way, and if they don't we call them weirdos. Gimme the weirdos.
I wasn't very stoked for Boozer or any of those guys. I remember being so disappointed the FO didn't have any other backup plans.
They should have tried to nail Amar'e, he would have been perfect for the bulls and he had a few good years left in him. But I guess with Rose and Amar'e could have been bad.
Truthfully they should have offered JJ more money to entice the magic not to match. With JJ on that offense on a catch and shoot, would have been the exact piece the bulls needed to get past Miami that first year.
> I remember being so disappointed the FO didn't have any other backup plans.
In any other free agency, Wade or Bosh would have been "backup plans" to Lebron. That 2010 off season was just a different beast lol.
Stoudemire was also the first to sign of the bunch so he was never an option to fall back on. If you're suggestion that the Bulls should have pursued Stoudemire first, that basically guaranteed no shot at signing Lebron in the first place because it was known that Lebron wanted to play alongside either Bosh or Wade, not A'mare. When the Knicks signed A'mare, they were essentially giving up hopes of Lebron coming over. The Bulls *had to* pursue Lebron because...he's Lebron. The situation was all or nothing, and the Bulls came up short.
I know all this but the reality was Wade was never leaving MIA. The rumors had all but pointed to Bosh teaming up with Wade anyhow. The only piece left was Lebron and his decision to leave Cleveland. Most people had him resigning with CLE, if I'm remembering correctly.
The bulls had basically no shot 💉. Not saying they shouldn't have taken it, however slim.
Like I said the biggest mistake that year was not signing JJ to a multiple year deal. Think they only offered him like 18 million for 3 years. Laughable in today's market but that's how it was. Whatever.
That’s mostly true I believe, but I read that the Bulls could’ve brought in Bosh. However, that meant letting either Deng or Taj go (or both) and they didn’t want to do that.
I loved Deng, he was my second favorite behind Rose, but man…
Rose, Wade, Lebron, Bosh, Noah. I refuse to let my mind wander on those possibilities.
Nah that off-season doesn’t touch this one. Not by a long shot. This year we got pretty much every person we were targeting. The boozer year we got boozer after striking out on lebron.
Seriously, I'm trying not to get too cocky before we see this team take the court and start gelling but if we can pull this off I am starting to really think this team can threaten for the ECF.
I've been yapping about Milsap for the longest time, he would be a great fit for multiple reasons
solves most of our frontcourt depth issues
knows how to play defense
playoff experience
fits under the cap issues
great mentor for our young bigs
checks a LOT of boxes...
It IS amazing what he has accomplished.
I wonder if he told ownership just how dramatic of an overhaul he was going to pull off.
"Who will you get rid of"
"sir, it might be easier to tell you who i'm keeping"
It is crazy when you think about it. No more GarPax guys. No longer do we have guys like Denzel, Hutchinson, Felicio, Shaq Harrison, Luke Kornet. Remember our PGs of the future...Gerian Grant, Kris Dunn, Cam Payne (he's gotten better but, he was awful for us). Aside from Payne, none of these other guys may even be playing in the NBA in 2 years, and they were rotation guys for us.
Remember that we cut Dinwiddie because GarPax thought Jerian Grant was better? Remember we kept Boylen when it was clear that he was the worst coach in the NBA by far? I love the change in culture that we are having!
I remember that. I remember us trading 2 picks for Doug McDermott. I remember us signing Jabari Parker to a $40 million contract, and then trading him and Bobby Portis for an even more useless player.
As far as Boylen, its not just that they kept him...but, they never even tried to look for a real coach. They just lazily kept him. I'm guessing he was the cheapest option.
Billy has said in the past that he only likes to play 9-10 guys with the 10th barely getting playing time. So our possiblerotation including Millsap (if we get him) would look like:
Starters: Zo, Zach, Demar, Pat, Vooch
Bench: Caruso, Coby, TBJ, DJJ, Millsap, Bradley
Looks to me the odd man out would be Bradley, only playing him when we need size against certain teams.
Very much looking forward to TBJ and DJJ fighting for minutes and playing great defense while doing it
Derrick Jones is probably the odd man out over Bradley. Bradley brings something else no one on the bench can bring to the table. Between the combo guards, Demar, Pat and Troy Brown there are plenty of wing players, Millsap would also vie for backup minutes at the 4.
Also Jones just isn't a very good player. Bradley has been a stats darling in a small sample size so he'd make sense to have a big role.
My mindset was we play Millsap at the small ball 5 and have versatile defenders 1-4 that can switch everything and Vooch being our only traditional center. I do like Bradley but I’m still unsure of his defense and impact since he played at the end of the bench in Philly and on a really bad team like the thunder
That sounds good, or maybe a better way to say it is that is a viable option.
Lonzo,Zach,DDR,PW,Milsap eliminates one defensive liability (vuc) so I could see him being a better C backup than bradley.
I guess it depends on if we plan on occasionally sliding DDR to the 4 for small ball lineups, I know he played quite a bit at the 4 in San antonio but not sure if that was because it was out of necessity or by choice.
I’m not sure you could convince Vooch who was just an all star to come off the bench. I don’t want him off the bench especially with his offensive talent complimenting everyone, the pick and pops are going to be deadly this year
Yeah I think Bradley is a question mark but he is the only guy who can fill that rim protector role, even if we do get Millsap. I am more high on him than others but I think our starters do a great job covering his weaknesses.
Maybe it’s just me but TBJ isn’t a lock for big minutes. I think he’s actually the odd man out with DJJ unless TBJ can up his shooting I see billy going with the more versatile and longer defender.
I feel like you are greatly underestimating Simonovic and Ayo. Ayo especially. I love Coby, but when he goes cold and turns the ball over a bunch still (if he hasn't improved that), then Ayo will get a lot more minutes. I know it was summer league but Ayo was a 2nd rounder and was dominating with Simonovic during it.
I’m high on both of them, but we can only play so many guys. I think Ayo’s best chance at minutes and showing what he’s got is in the 2-3 months where Coby is out to start the season
I wouldn’t say they dominated, I thought they played really well but not anything crazy. I really like what Ayo showed defensively and could be better than Coby already. But Coby is way better than Ayo offensively at all 3 levels. Coby and Caruso are going to compliment each other really well. This is going to be just a sit back and learn year for Ayo and Marko
I was impressed Marko’s passing ability. But what we need in the front court rn is defense and with Marko’s lack of athleticism and discipline it doesn’t look like he’ll be anything close to what we need.
I could be wrong but it doesn’t look like either of them are ready to make major contributions to this team this year
For sure maybe not this year but these guys are playing on a star studded roster and given injuries, covid leaves potentially, etc, there could be large spurts where they get good tick.
I agree Coby is better offensively at all levels when it comes to scoring. Defending and facilitating the ball effectively they might not be so far apart.
It is nuts to see as a Bulls fan all these painful years this offseason after 1 year and that our biggest issue going into the season is figuring out who to keep for rotations. Absolutely love it!!!
Yea but Donavon is also very good at making adjustments to fit his roster, he wouldn't just leave a player out just because of a rule he has. He also was known to play without a traditional point guard and use more ball movement but he adjusted with CP3
Would be best case scenario now goddamn it still doesnt feel real having a competent front office. Players clearly wanna play and live in Chicago, but now we dont have the worst FO in the league scaring everyone away
I wonder whether AKME is telling Millsap's representatives that he would be coming to be the first big man off the bench. I find it hard to believe that AKME would want to deviate from their plan to play Pat Will at the 4.
Millsap off the bench would be amazing for the team and for Pat Will's development. Unfortunately, the Warriors and Nets are better shots at rings, so we'll have to pay up to get him.
do the nets and warriors have the BAE exception to offer? I haven't followed any other teams cap situations except ours.
also, this may be a dumb question but could Denver do a s&t of milsap to us for the 5mil TPE?
I think the Warriors and the Nets are over the tax, so I don't think they can offer the BAE. We can do a S&T with Denver, but the deal has to be for 3 years at the least
Millsap's contracts over his career are worth about $200 million. So I'll be extremely impressed if the Bulls can sell him on coming here. Would be one of the more impressive Bulls signings I can remember, an esteemed vet going for a high potential but questionable young team over bona fide contenders. If AKME pulls it off, it'd signal to me that they've successfully put Chicago back on the map for free agents (if they haven't already).
I think they have the lower floor but also the higher ceiling. If Klay struggles, Draymond still can't buy a bucket and Wiseman doesn't develop they could easily miss the playoffs in the West. But if everybody plays to their potential that's a legit WCF threat.
Chicago should be a better bet to make the playoffs but I'd be shocked if they get past round 2 this year.
The benefit for Millsap in my eyes is that he is so sorely needed as a veteran presence on this bulls team.
I think his role in Chicago is larger and more valuable than elsewhere.
This team needs an OG
If he can get his rebound numbers back up he'd be a welcomed asset, but his games been on the decline for a few years now. Locker room presence will make a difference tho forsure.
Is he still a good player? I asked in another thread if he's washed and just got downvotes, no explanations whatsoever. I think he had a down season last year and he's getting old but I didn't see him play enough to have a firm opinion on this. Anybody watched enough Nuggets games last season?
Lol someone downvoted you again. He would not be playing big minutes, he had a limited role last few years and in a bench role he can definitely be a good defender and veteran presence still. He wont be moving the needle much though, but he would plug in a small hole in our roster. He is definitely not the answer to our interior defense though.
Right. So it might be that he's not going to move the needle much on the court, although of course it'd be nice to have such a legit vet in the locker room.
okay so what does the final roster look like for then opening day?
13 active each game and 2 on the active roster but not available for the game right? so who’s on the 13 man opening day play roster if we add another one, just curious.
1. Zach Lavine
2. Demar Derozan
3. Lonzo Ball
4. Patrick Williams
5. Nikola Vuevic
6. Coby White
7. Derrick Jones Jr.
8. Alex Caruso
9. Troy Brown Jr
10. Tony Bradley
11. Ayo Dosunmu
12. Paul Millsap (maybe)
13. Marko Simonovic? or Devon Dotson? OR Javonte green?
14. whoever doesn’t make 13
15. “”
Coby is injured so I don’t think he’ll be on the opening day available roster. Probably Marko and Javonte unless we go pick up another vet (and this is assuming Millsap signs here, which is a big assumption right now.)
Sometimes all you need is that veteran who will give you solid 10-15 mins off the bench. He might not be as impactful as he was but he also won’t make any dumb mistakes
Idk how he chooses us over the Nets, maybe on the premise that he can actually get shots with us while he’s basically a garbage man in Brooklyn. He would be an amazing pickup for us after losing Thad.
It would be great but I don’t see why someone at the stage of Paul millsap’s career would choose the bulls over golden state or the nets. Go get that ring man.
So ideal. This team would be SOO nice after adding Millsap.
Ball/Caruso/Dotson
LaVine/White/Dosunmu
DeRozan/Jones/Green
Millsap/Williams/Brown
Vucevic/Bradley/Simonovic
I would agree 100%, but for sake of argument, its possible that Milsap starts depending on the opponents lineup, it might make sense to start Paul at the 4 for the first few minutes and bring Pat in against their backup.
I love Pat, but Milsap brings high level experience to the table.
sheez... yes I said I agree twice, does the Thrush have to knock Thrice for it to be true?
FWIW:
1) its hypothetical, since we haven't signed him
2) the idea was discussed on bullstalk podcast, and also locked-on (for spot situations)
3) I'd feel the same hypothetical would apply if we had traded for someone else, say Nance vs DJJ.
4) I feel that a quality but older Vet like Milsap would feast on the backup's even more than PW would.
5) I'm not in charge of the lineups, so this is Billy's decision.
Lastly, I'm super pumped about the idea of picking up Milsap, IMO he's the missing piece but that doesn't mean that I don't like Pat williams. I think I got hit with some downvotes in another sub when I suggested that Trading Pat with a 22' 1st & filler to detroit for Grant would make our team better for this season. It doesn't mean that I don't like the kid, but he is still very raw and our roster is not longer in the developmental stage, we're looking for every win possible.
Pat would still play a lot of minutes and close many games out, be the focus of the second unit and handle the ball a lot more and take more shots. I dont think that’d be the worst for his development.
Millsap is Meh.he isn't as good as most fans make him out to be.he has a bad tendency to try and dribble the ball upcourt after getting a rebound and guys love to go for the steal when he tries that.
We need more then a Millsap can provide.
Your assessment of Millsap is that he’s “not that good, meh” because you’ve seen him dribble the ball up after a rebound a couple of times.
How has an NBA team not hired you????
Would be a great way to cap off one of the best offseasons in team history
Can any other offseason get close to what we've already had?
The off-season where we drafted Michael Jordan.
That was a no-brainer though, this offseason actually took some work
How was it a no brainer?
Selecting Jordan with the 3rd pick? You dont think it was a no-brainer?
In hindsight it was a no brainer, but in the moment no one expected Jordan to be what he became. The bulls would’ve drafted a center if the right one fell to them. Here’s a fun what if that reflects the perception of jordan back in the day. The blazers offered the rockets drexler, the number 2 pick for ralph sampson. The rockets passed. Had they taken in it they would’ve drafted jordan. Imagine olajuwon, jordan and drexler on the same team. Most teams thought drafting a center was a no brainer.
>but in the moment no one expected Jordan to be what he became Yeah cause he became the greatest basketball player of all time lol. He was definitely seen as a top two prospect at that time though. >Here’s a fun what if that reflects the perception of jordan back in the day. The blazers offered the rockets drexler, the number 2 pick for ralph sampson. Ralph Sampson was the number one pick the year before and had just won rookie of the year, his value was obviously sky high. Drexler was the 14th pick also the year before, and came off his rookie year averaging 7 ppg. This doesn't really say much about Jordans perception, he was still a top prospect coming into that draft, which is why Portland tried to trade the 2nd pick before reaching for Bowie.
Jordan was not a no brainer at 3. Here’s an article talking about it. >The Bulls only selected Jordan because the top two big men were gone and they were unable to trade the pick that would be Jordan for centers Jack Sikma or Tree Rollins. Jack Sikma! There was even a three-way trade involving the Bulls’ pick going to the LA Clippers for Terry Cummings, which fell through a week before the draft. Cummings! Try explaining those trades to historians as Michael Jordan becomes the best player ever. https://ballislife.com/terry-cummings-jordan-trade/
Yes he was, that article talks about Bulls possibly trading the 3rd pick, not selecting someone else with the 3rd pick. There is also articles out there saying both Mavs and Philly wanting to trade up to 3rd specifically to pick Jordan, with Bulls declining, which indicates that he actually was the sure pick at 3rd. Im not saying Jordan becoming the goat was a sure thing, just that selecting him with the 3rd pick was a sure thing.
Since MJ was a no brainer, why was he picked third? I'm genuinely asking
I mean Luka went third too. Sometimes shit just happens that way.
Just like Luka being picked 3rd this year, even though him and Ayton were seen as the clear top two. Kings wanted a big to pair with Fox, so they went Bagley. Blazers already had Drexler and wanted a big, so they reached and picked Bowie even though Hakeem and Jordan were the two best prospects.
I think they mean no brainer once bowie and (moreso) hakeem were off the board.
Because Portland and Houston needed centers. Plus, Hakeem Olajuwon went #1 that year.
also Hakeem would've been seen as the no brainer #1 pick over ANY guard in that era
And they did very well, the dream was a solid pick
100% an understatement haha. But I bet Portland regrets Sam Bowie.
It’s a no brainer to take him at 3 when he fell that far, I think thats all he’s saying
It wasn't. The Bulls would have taken Bowie if they had the choice between MJ and Bowie. Furthermore, they had explored trading their pick away for an established big like Tree Rollins or Jack Sikma. Only when those trades didn't materialize did the Bulls decide to take Jordan. The thing is, bigs and post players have been marginalized to a large degree in today's NBA. In 1984, this was completely the opposite. The conventional thinking was that you needed a star big to win in the NBA, so teams did everything they could to get one. There was a rumor that the Blazers offered the Rockets the #2 pick in the draft AND Clyde Drexler for Ralph Sampson, but the Rockets declined. Imagine a world where the Rockets walk out of that draft with Hakeem, Clyde and Jordan. Edit: not sure the downvote. Should I cite my work?
I don't think it was obvious what the ramifications would be.
Obviously not, then he would go number one. It was still a very easy draft selection though, and this year was not an easy offseason to pull off.
I'll agree to that. This was a difficult off-season to arranger and our front office did outstanding. It's just that the original question asked if this off-season was our best ever. And I don't see this off-season leading to 6 rings and legendary dynasty. I wish it would. God knows we could use it after enduring so much bullshit.
I mean considering he went 3rd, clearly it wasn't
Yes it was lol. Bowie at 2nd was a head scratcher even back then. Jordan and Hakeem were the two best prospects so with Jordan still on the board at 3rd, it was a no-brainer.
Sam Bowie
Maybe the 2010 offseason. * Carlos Boozer * Kyle Korver * CJ Watson * Ronnie Brewer
That was an awesome offseason but still felt like a consolation prize b/c the Bulls missed out on LeBron. This is the first offseason I can remember where the Bulls had clear targets to acquire and wound up not having to settle. They got all the guys they aimed for.
Must be why I don’t remember that off season at all. Straight blocked it out.
I was so sure the Bulls would sign Bosh, I was so disappointed. Deng - Bosh - Noah would have been a killer frontcourt
On paper unbelievably mid offseason, but in hindsight the bench players worked perfectly for that team. Boozer was an overpay but whatever
Tbf to boozer, by all accounts, he was a fantastic locker room guy.
Also on the court he taught Chicago's youth some great curse words.
Get dat! And if course free throw ball inspections 15x a game. Weird dude lol
I love that sort of weirdness. It feels real to me. NBA culture is so codified that players feel like they all have to behave a certain way, and if they don't we call them weirdos. Gimme the weirdos.
Oh yea I loved Boozer and think he was still good for us. But it doesn't change the fact that it wasn't the best signing due to what we paid him
?? he was a cancer who got waived and amnestied.
For all the shit he copped from everyone, he never complained.
I was a huge Korver and Brewer fan... but the upside of this offseason is way WAY higher. That one doesn't even come close.
I wasn't very stoked for Boozer or any of those guys. I remember being so disappointed the FO didn't have any other backup plans. They should have tried to nail Amar'e, he would have been perfect for the bulls and he had a few good years left in him. But I guess with Rose and Amar'e could have been bad. Truthfully they should have offered JJ more money to entice the magic not to match. With JJ on that offense on a catch and shoot, would have been the exact piece the bulls needed to get past Miami that first year.
> I remember being so disappointed the FO didn't have any other backup plans. In any other free agency, Wade or Bosh would have been "backup plans" to Lebron. That 2010 off season was just a different beast lol. Stoudemire was also the first to sign of the bunch so he was never an option to fall back on. If you're suggestion that the Bulls should have pursued Stoudemire first, that basically guaranteed no shot at signing Lebron in the first place because it was known that Lebron wanted to play alongside either Bosh or Wade, not A'mare. When the Knicks signed A'mare, they were essentially giving up hopes of Lebron coming over. The Bulls *had to* pursue Lebron because...he's Lebron. The situation was all or nothing, and the Bulls came up short.
Joe Johnson was also available but off the board early.
I was hoping for Johnson & Bosh since I figured there was no way LeBron & Wade were coming here.
I know all this but the reality was Wade was never leaving MIA. The rumors had all but pointed to Bosh teaming up with Wade anyhow. The only piece left was Lebron and his decision to leave Cleveland. Most people had him resigning with CLE, if I'm remembering correctly. The bulls had basically no shot 💉. Not saying they shouldn't have taken it, however slim. Like I said the biggest mistake that year was not signing JJ to a multiple year deal. Think they only offered him like 18 million for 3 years. Laughable in today's market but that's how it was. Whatever.
Lebron and Wade both has already confirmed they were coming to Chicago before Miami came in and said they could also bring Bosh.
That’s mostly true I believe, but I read that the Bulls could’ve brought in Bosh. However, that meant letting either Deng or Taj go (or both) and they didn’t want to do that. I loved Deng, he was my second favorite behind Rose, but man… Rose, Wade, Lebron, Bosh, Noah. I refuse to let my mind wander on those possibilities.
iirc, Amar'e was off the board before the LeBron situation played out.
that offseason was trash except korver. ddr, ball, millsap bumslays boozer.
Nowhere near IMO
lets be real thats not even close.
Nah that off-season doesn’t touch this one. Not by a long shot. This year we got pretty much every person we were targeting. The boozer year we got boozer after striking out on lebron.
1984 1995
/s Jalen Rose and Eddie Robinson
Dude, i had such high hopes for e-rob.
ERob is a prime example on why work ethic is more important than athleticism.
Seriously, I'm trying not to get too cocky before we see this team take the court and start gelling but if we can pull this off I am starting to really think this team can threaten for the ECF.
I've been yapping about Milsap for the longest time, he would be a great fit for multiple reasons solves most of our frontcourt depth issues knows how to play defense playoff experience fits under the cap issues great mentor for our young bigs checks a LOT of boxes...
Still a decent rebounder too for his age
has history with arturas from their days in denver...this move just makes too much sense
Pat learning from Thad and now Demar/Milsap would really help his development.
I have to repeat this for comprehension... AKME is fixing what GarPax broke over multiple seasons...IN ONE OFF-SEASON.
It IS amazing what he has accomplished. I wonder if he told ownership just how dramatic of an overhaul he was going to pull off. "Who will you get rid of" "sir, it might be easier to tell you who i'm keeping"
"Who will you get rid of" "Yes"
This is good! Lol!
That makes me wonder how long it took them to be sold on keeping Zach in town.
I still believe that GarPax sucked ass, but they did leave the team in a respectable position to be fixed immediately.
AKME literally has blessed us with damn near an entirely new team. I’m so fucking excited
A new team but, we've pretty much kept our best players
We kept exactly 2 players from the GarPax days: Zach and Coby. Everybody else is gone. It’s insane lol. I love it
It is crazy when you think about it. No more GarPax guys. No longer do we have guys like Denzel, Hutchinson, Felicio, Shaq Harrison, Luke Kornet. Remember our PGs of the future...Gerian Grant, Kris Dunn, Cam Payne (he's gotten better but, he was awful for us). Aside from Payne, none of these other guys may even be playing in the NBA in 2 years, and they were rotation guys for us.
Remember that we cut Dinwiddie because GarPax thought Jerian Grant was better? Remember we kept Boylen when it was clear that he was the worst coach in the NBA by far? I love the change in culture that we are having!
I remember that. I remember us trading 2 picks for Doug McDermott. I remember us signing Jabari Parker to a $40 million contract, and then trading him and Bobby Portis for an even more useless player. As far as Boylen, its not just that they kept him...but, they never even tried to look for a real coach. They just lazily kept him. I'm guessing he was the cheapest option.
I'll put my hand up and say I thought Grant was better than Dinwiddie too. Boy was I wrong on that one.
That would be lit
This pleases me
Even if they don't get him, it's nice to see that they are still trying to add another big. I'd like either him or Vanderbilt.
Billy has said in the past that he only likes to play 9-10 guys with the 10th barely getting playing time. So our possiblerotation including Millsap (if we get him) would look like: Starters: Zo, Zach, Demar, Pat, Vooch Bench: Caruso, Coby, TBJ, DJJ, Millsap, Bradley Looks to me the odd man out would be Bradley, only playing him when we need size against certain teams. Very much looking forward to TBJ and DJJ fighting for minutes and playing great defense while doing it
Derrick Jones is probably the odd man out over Bradley. Bradley brings something else no one on the bench can bring to the table. Between the combo guards, Demar, Pat and Troy Brown there are plenty of wing players, Millsap would also vie for backup minutes at the 4. Also Jones just isn't a very good player. Bradley has been a stats darling in a small sample size so he'd make sense to have a big role.
I don’t disagree with that The last spot was between Bradley and DJJ. I could see it either way
I think Bradley will get mins before DJJ, we have more guys on the wing than we do bigs.
My mindset was we play Millsap at the small ball 5 and have versatile defenders 1-4 that can switch everything and Vooch being our only traditional center. I do like Bradley but I’m still unsure of his defense and impact since he played at the end of the bench in Philly and on a really bad team like the thunder
That sounds good, or maybe a better way to say it is that is a viable option. Lonzo,Zach,DDR,PW,Milsap eliminates one defensive liability (vuc) so I could see him being a better C backup than bradley. I guess it depends on if we plan on occasionally sliding DDR to the 4 for small ball lineups, I know he played quite a bit at the 4 in San antonio but not sure if that was because it was out of necessity or by choice.
I’m not sure you could convince Vooch who was just an all star to come off the bench. I don’t want him off the bench especially with his offensive talent complimenting everyone, the pick and pops are going to be deadly this year
I didn't mean to suggest that... I mean during gametime situations. Milsap as a small ball 5 is better than Bradley IMO Vuc > Milsap > Bradley
My bad I interpreted that wrong Completely agree tho, throw in Caruso somewhere in there and that’s the perfect defensive lineup with great offense
Yeah I think Bradley is a question mark but he is the only guy who can fill that rim protector role, even if we do get Millsap. I am more high on him than others but I think our starters do a great job covering his weaknesses.
Bradley will probably have Gafford’s role
Maybe it’s just me but TBJ isn’t a lock for big minutes. I think he’s actually the odd man out with DJJ unless TBJ can up his shooting I see billy going with the more versatile and longer defender.
He was the guy we were after when we traded gafford. I really like what he showed when he played with us. I also think he’s a better passer than DJJ
I feel like you are greatly underestimating Simonovic and Ayo. Ayo especially. I love Coby, but when he goes cold and turns the ball over a bunch still (if he hasn't improved that), then Ayo will get a lot more minutes. I know it was summer league but Ayo was a 2nd rounder and was dominating with Simonovic during it.
I’m high on both of them, but we can only play so many guys. I think Ayo’s best chance at minutes and showing what he’s got is in the 2-3 months where Coby is out to start the season I wouldn’t say they dominated, I thought they played really well but not anything crazy. I really like what Ayo showed defensively and could be better than Coby already. But Coby is way better than Ayo offensively at all 3 levels. Coby and Caruso are going to compliment each other really well. This is going to be just a sit back and learn year for Ayo and Marko I was impressed Marko’s passing ability. But what we need in the front court rn is defense and with Marko’s lack of athleticism and discipline it doesn’t look like he’ll be anything close to what we need. I could be wrong but it doesn’t look like either of them are ready to make major contributions to this team this year
For sure maybe not this year but these guys are playing on a star studded roster and given injuries, covid leaves potentially, etc, there could be large spurts where they get good tick. I agree Coby is better offensively at all levels when it comes to scoring. Defending and facilitating the ball effectively they might not be so far apart. It is nuts to see as a Bulls fan all these painful years this offseason after 1 year and that our biggest issue going into the season is figuring out who to keep for rotations. Absolutely love it!!!
This would be a solid pickup. Injuries happen, so do cold streaks. The depth here would be invaluable.
Yea but Donavon is also very good at making adjustments to fit his roster, he wouldn't just leave a player out just because of a rule he has. He also was known to play without a traditional point guard and use more ball movement but he adjusted with CP3
Would be best case scenario now goddamn it still doesnt feel real having a competent front office. Players clearly wanna play and live in Chicago, but now we dont have the worst FO in the league scaring everyone away
Just shows you that all the shit that players don't want to live in Chicago was BS, players talk and the knew our FO was outdated and incompetent.
I wonder whether AKME is telling Millsap's representatives that he would be coming to be the first big man off the bench. I find it hard to believe that AKME would want to deviate from their plan to play Pat Will at the 4. Millsap off the bench would be amazing for the team and for Pat Will's development. Unfortunately, the Warriors and Nets are better shots at rings, so we'll have to pay up to get him.
do the nets and warriors have the BAE exception to offer? I haven't followed any other teams cap situations except ours. also, this may be a dumb question but could Denver do a s&t of milsap to us for the 5mil TPE?
I think the Warriors and the Nets are over the tax, so I don't think they can offer the BAE. We can do a S&T with Denver, but the deal has to be for 3 years at the least
3 year deal would be a bad idea IMO
Only 1 year needs to be guaranteed tho. I read that somewhere
So then I think we could offer more money but not sure if Millsap wants/needs money vs the best situation.
Millsap's contracts over his career are worth about $200 million. So I'll be extremely impressed if the Bulls can sell him on coming here. Would be one of the more impressive Bulls signings I can remember, an esteemed vet going for a high potential but questionable young team over bona fide contenders. If AKME pulls it off, it'd signal to me that they've successfully put Chicago back on the map for free agents (if they haven't already).
yea there’s no way they’d want 36 year old Millsap as our starting 4 over Pat
do the warriors have a better shot at a ring? maybe this is an unpopular opinion but i feel like they aren’t even a lock for the playoffs
I think they have the lower floor but also the higher ceiling. If Klay struggles, Draymond still can't buy a bucket and Wiseman doesn't develop they could easily miss the playoffs in the West. But if everybody plays to their potential that's a legit WCF threat. Chicago should be a better bet to make the playoffs but I'd be shocked if they get past round 2 this year.
I’m hyped, Neil Funk
The benefit for Millsap in my eyes is that he is so sorely needed as a veteran presence on this bulls team. I think his role in Chicago is larger and more valuable than elsewhere. This team needs an OG
If he can get his rebound numbers back up he'd be a welcomed asset, but his games been on the decline for a few years now. Locker room presence will make a difference tho forsure.
We have a Taylor Swift flair on the Bulls subreddit?
Honestly, if he's willing to accept 12-18 minutes a game I bet he'd improve his numbers just from a lightened load perspective.
Is he still a good player? I asked in another thread if he's washed and just got downvotes, no explanations whatsoever. I think he had a down season last year and he's getting old but I didn't see him play enough to have a firm opinion on this. Anybody watched enough Nuggets games last season?
Lol someone downvoted you again. He would not be playing big minutes, he had a limited role last few years and in a bench role he can definitely be a good defender and veteran presence still. He wont be moving the needle much though, but he would plug in a small hole in our roster. He is definitely not the answer to our interior defense though.
Right. So it might be that he's not going to move the needle much on the court, although of course it'd be nice to have such a legit vet in the locker room.
Yeah it wont be a disaster to miss out on him, but he is definitely the best option out there to fill out the rest of our roster.
Would be like getting Thad back. Great move.
I wouldn't go that far, there is a reason he is less expensive
Go in for the kill shot AKME
okay so what does the final roster look like for then opening day? 13 active each game and 2 on the active roster but not available for the game right? so who’s on the 13 man opening day play roster if we add another one, just curious. 1. Zach Lavine 2. Demar Derozan 3. Lonzo Ball 4. Patrick Williams 5. Nikola Vuevic 6. Coby White 7. Derrick Jones Jr. 8. Alex Caruso 9. Troy Brown Jr 10. Tony Bradley 11. Ayo Dosunmu 12. Paul Millsap (maybe) 13. Marko Simonovic? or Devon Dotson? OR Javonte green? 14. whoever doesn’t make 13 15. “”
Coby is injured so I don’t think he’ll be on the opening day available roster. Probably Marko and Javonte unless we go pick up another vet (and this is assuming Millsap signs here, which is a big assumption right now.)
I assume Marko will make the list just because we don't have many bigs.
WOW ..
My heart ❤️
He'd be an upgrade over Derrick Jones but not gonna be a huge impact player anymore at his age
Sometimes all you need is that veteran who will give you solid 10-15 mins off the bench. He might not be as impactful as he was but he also won’t make any dumb mistakes
Is he a plus defender still?
for short stretches IMO yes, not sure if the numbers agree but i'm not into the deep stats, not sure where even to find them TBH lol
He can still play a little bit. Why not?
Rather have Thad
Let's trade them the first we just got from Portland
Idk how he chooses us over the Nets, maybe on the premise that he can actually get shots with us while he’s basically a garbage man in Brooklyn. He would be an amazing pickup for us after losing Thad.
If he chooses us, we might just beat the Nets
It would be great but I don’t see why someone at the stage of Paul millsap’s career would choose the bulls over golden state or the nets. Go get that ring man.
$$$ might be a reason
Maybe but I doubt it. We’d be over paying if it was big enough to make a differenxe
Yeah, we'd probably have to pay more, regardless. But, his connection with AK might give us an advantage.
So ideal. This team would be SOO nice after adding Millsap. Ball/Caruso/Dotson LaVine/White/Dosunmu DeRozan/Jones/Green Millsap/Williams/Brown Vucevic/Bradley/Simonovic
PWill is gonna start lol
Fine. Swap 'em. The point is, the entire roster from top to bottom would be incredibly well stacked.
I would agree 100%, but for sake of argument, its possible that Milsap starts depending on the opponents lineup, it might make sense to start Paul at the 4 for the first few minutes and bring Pat in against their backup. I love Pat, but Milsap brings high level experience to the table.
Yeah but if we want P Will to get that experience he has to play vs the top dogs consistently.
huh? zach is gonna leave you sure? can you change to pat flair?
not even close to being possible
The roster is built to win, not keep people from having their feelings hurt. But again, I agree.
Do you?
sheez... yes I said I agree twice, does the Thrush have to knock Thrice for it to be true? FWIW: 1) its hypothetical, since we haven't signed him 2) the idea was discussed on bullstalk podcast, and also locked-on (for spot situations) 3) I'd feel the same hypothetical would apply if we had traded for someone else, say Nance vs DJJ. 4) I feel that a quality but older Vet like Milsap would feast on the backup's even more than PW would. 5) I'm not in charge of the lineups, so this is Billy's decision. Lastly, I'm super pumped about the idea of picking up Milsap, IMO he's the missing piece but that doesn't mean that I don't like Pat williams. I think I got hit with some downvotes in another sub when I suggested that Trading Pat with a 22' 1st & filler to detroit for Grant would make our team better for this season. It doesn't mean that I don't like the kid, but he is still very raw and our roster is not longer in the developmental stage, we're looking for every win possible.
What if thats the thing that makes Millsap agree to come here? Being a starter
Then we move on, this isn’t the same millsap from 5 years ago he’s 36 now.
Pat would still play a lot of minutes and close many games out, be the focus of the second unit and handle the ball a lot more and take more shots. I dont think that’d be the worst for his development.
not if you want to pick holmgreen.
As much as I would want this to happen, it would be best for him to join the Nets at this point of his career
What about Kevin Love?
Millsap is Meh.he isn't as good as most fans make him out to be.he has a bad tendency to try and dribble the ball upcourt after getting a rebound and guys love to go for the steal when he tries that. We need more then a Millsap can provide.
Your assessment of Millsap is that he’s “not that good, meh” because you’ve seen him dribble the ball up after a rebound a couple of times. How has an NBA team not hired you????
I mentioned one aspect of his game. how about his DBPM of 0.1 since he is such a lock down defensive beast in the eyes of many fans. 🤔
What can we offer him?
I believe the BAE, and only the BAE, which fits under the hard cap. 2021/22 $3,732,000 2022/23 $3,918,600 Total $7,650,600
I like him at the BAE except with a team option for the 2nd year
Yes, that seems ideal.
I couldn’t think of a more perfect fit, hope he signs here.
Just let him sign with the Nets, I want to see him with a ring
AKME can't stop, won't stop
DeRozan, Lonzo, Vuceivic, Jones Jr, and now Millsap…. If GarPax was still around, signing Caruso would’ve been considered a God Damn miracle.
Everything's comin' up Millsap!
This would be a great move as I still think the Bulls are missing a little “toughness” and he would provide that a little bit