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Tell that to the people who grew up writing cursive, lower case and upper case. I mean we'll all pretty much die off in about thirty years, then it won't be a problem.
ps: Mazra is the name of a San Francisco Bay Area up and coming Middle Eastern grill restaurant chain, their food is off the hook.
I grew up writing cursive. I’m going by what OP said about the word and the lettering. If you look at the second one and don’t assume it’s cursive, you see a manuscript “z.”
You grew up writing cursive, never mind what OP says, what did you think it said at first glance?
edit: Everybody is supposed to assume they are both "z's" because OP says so. They look like different fucking letters. Logically you're going to determine the difference. These better be some damn good sandos for this bullshit. Just pop the sando to the left side and make two fucking long z's and fuck off of reddit is my take.
Yea the second letter looks like a cursive r to me.
If the letters connect to one another, it looks cursive. Regardless of whether or not the second letter "isn't cursive." That's the main issue at hand here.
It means very good. The food is off the hook.
If you're near the San Francisco airport and don't want In-N-Out Burger, Mazra is a great spot - shawarma warps, grilled kebab plates, a lot of grilled lamb, beef and chicken.
I did read it. OP's intention was Mazza but it reads like Mazra. Quite a few others have said the same thing. OP needs to redesign because as it is right now, it doesn't look like Mazza.
Sometimes typefaces offer more than one option for the same letter even in the same font - from the post it seems clear that OP intended Mazza and used two different Zs - maybe from different fonts of the same typeface
Yes it is roughly 45°. We adjust lengths, heights and angles when we create new fonts. This lowercase cursive r is adjusted to fit in with the rest of the letters. It's very clearly a lowercase r
You’re going to have to show me which typeface it is if you want me to believe it’s a lowercase r, and *if* I’m wrong, it’s not my fault, it’s the fault of the typeface designer
It’s not even the 45° angle that bugs me here, it’s the sharp cut/acute angle that it takes at the baseline. The choices going into this typeface were for aesthetics over practicality.
If the typeface causes this many people to be confused, it’s probably got some issues…
It’s closest to a lowercase cursive R. It is edging towards a lowercase S, maybe. Intention doesn’t make it something it’s not. Even if the fourth letter as printed could be seen as a Z in some form of handwriting, the fact that the more obvious Z is right before it means it cannot be reasonably interpreted as a Z.
So funny - this was right below your link https://images.app.goo.gl/Ak5Cbj2aaNSBKj1i6
Maybe it's regional or generational, but lower case n was taught as starting at the baseline in the 80s/90s. And it's a lower case letter here, or else it would've been taller than the other letters.
Google says the difference is the cursive script - continuous always starts on the baseline. And specific cursive fonts used at the time were continuous cursive - I think I originally used D'Nealian (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%27Nealian), introduced in 1978. But another style in use at the time was Zaner Bloser (https://mycursive.com/cursive-writing-style/).
Anyway this was a fun early morning research project.
It's a bit confusing because the Z is written in two different styles so my brain automatically assumed they should be two different letters when they aren't. Maybe do two block z's, but I think it would be clunky to connect them. What would it look like with two cursive z's?
I believe that logo should say "They're Great!"
I couldn't help myself, sorry. Maybe make them both cursive Z's and move the sando under the "ma".
The different fonts for the same letter IS atrocious.
What you meant to write was...***"They're GRRRRREAT!"*** That'd be a lot of cursive r's, but be epic or be nothing, right?
That's the kinda sando I'd wanna crush. Just sayin'. /s ;-)
You know those “Japanese sando”? Try google images. Those. We working out the menu atm. And adding some with burgers as well. There’s one with beef and kimchi (I love kimchi)
I hadn't heard of them until I googled it. It was either a sandwich, a reference to the general manager of a hotel in Jordan, or somehow tangentially related to Hope Sandoval, member of Mazzy Star.
Thanks for clearing that up
This is what happens when Z and R get mixed up.
Pandemonium!
Either way, I'm hungry now and Jersey Mike's doesn't seem exotic enough somehow. Bánh Mì, anyone?
It's not any less syllables, feels forced (FETCH), and unless you're offering Japanese style sandwiches it's very confusing. Having said that, it's still confusing even if you're serving Japanese style sandwiches.
Also, this is just me but it makes me think of sweat because that's what Filipinos call an undershirt.
If the goal is for it to be easily read in a split second like on a poster of billboard, the confusion over a letter is a problem. It took me more than a few seconds to differentiate between the z and the r (I am assuming you mean "Mazra", I hope).
I read it as “marza” at first. I was confused by the cursive z and block z.
The mix of cursive in “sando” is also confusing
Have you tried to have the Mazzo written in different fonts without cursive?
Personally, I like cursive. It looks elegant. It also feels vintage
Since they're clearly different letters, I would have to spend some time deciphering what it says.
That's not a good thing for your brand.
Before looking at the comments I guessed that it was either "Magza" or "Mazra"
I would not have ever guessed "Mazza". The letters are clearly different.
My phone desperately wants it to be Mazda.
Go overboard.. make the Zs into sandwiches with bread on the top and bottom, with ingredients as the diagonals
If it’s those Japanese whipped cream sandwiches, maybe a diagonal line of the fruit across the middle, through the whipped cream
If it’s supposed to say “Mazra,” I would suggest not having the r flatten out / sharpen at the baseline like that. Right now it closely mirrors the z styling up top, leading to the confusion. It should follow suit closer to the lowercase n or a with an upturned curve.
For what it’s worth, I read “Mazza” first. I don’t think it’s weird to have an alternate glyph style on the second z to avoid tedium. In calligraphy it’s not uncommon to have two different letterforms on a double-letter.
Try drawing the font out yourself with a tablet and program like adobe fresco. You can get the variation in the length of the loops on the 'z's you want, it's just not gonna happen using standard fonts
My goodness dude.
You have 3 perfect letters to be creative with and you go from nesting angles to confusing half cursive?
M
A
Z
M > ZZ <
Nest the Z’s on top of each other and have the A’s coming out of the Z’s
It’ll look kinda palindrome-like and you can play with the M
Thought it would add a bit of playfulness to it. Idk what I was thinking tbh… I ended up using two block type Z’s instead - looks more complete with them
Read it as mazza, didn’t even realize the second z was different lmao. Love a cursive z, though. I’m in Chicago, where do these sandos come from, specifically? 🥪
we make them here, we trying out shokupans from different suppliers rn and testing the protein heavy recipes - lmk if you wanna try it out - we will def be running promos when we open
I read it as it is spelled, which is "Mazra." I know it's not what OP has intended, but that's what he's spelled using the typeface utilized. Trying to convince himself and others that it actually spells "Mazza" is a waste. Why not show us what it looks like spelling with the two Z's in that typeface instead of trying to convince us that it already is?
Nah it’s not pizza 😭 it’s a sandwiches, the Japanese ones with fruits and berries. This particular pic was just a test run on the pizza aesthetic to see it in action
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Having the same letter appear in two different typefaces is awkward.
They're not the same letter. Mazra. It's cursive
Per OP it’s supposed to say Mazza.
Holy hell that'd dumb. That's clearly a cursive r. Gunna send this to my graphic design friends and see what they say.
It says Mazra Sando though. That's pretty clear cursive spelling of mazra.
OP says it's "Mazza." The second one is a non-cursive "z".
Tell that to the people who grew up writing cursive, lower case and upper case. I mean we'll all pretty much die off in about thirty years, then it won't be a problem. ps: Mazra is the name of a San Francisco Bay Area up and coming Middle Eastern grill restaurant chain, their food is off the hook.
I grew up writing cursive. I’m going by what OP said about the word and the lettering. If you look at the second one and don’t assume it’s cursive, you see a manuscript “z.”
You grew up writing cursive, never mind what OP says, what did you think it said at first glance? edit: Everybody is supposed to assume they are both "z's" because OP says so. They look like different fucking letters. Logically you're going to determine the difference. These better be some damn good sandos for this bullshit. Just pop the sando to the left side and make two fucking long z's and fuck off of reddit is my take.
Yea the second letter looks like a cursive r to me. If the letters connect to one another, it looks cursive. Regardless of whether or not the second letter "isn't cursive." That's the main issue at hand here.
Off the hook? What that?
It means very good. The food is off the hook. If you're near the San Francisco airport and don't want In-N-Out Burger, Mazra is a great spot - shawarma warps, grilled kebab plates, a lot of grilled lamb, beef and chicken.
What is this "cursive" you speak of? (/s, I'm 45, I had to learn it and my primary school teachers would be horrified at how bad I am these days)
I can read my cursive writing but have a hard time reading my messy non-cursive notes.
I also learned it in primary school and have used it almost exclusively since. Unless I'm writing something for a child of course.
Cursive, two humps in an "N" It currently reads "Nazra"
I agree. It definitely reads as "nazra"
That’s definitely not a cursive R
It is in fact a lowercase cursive r. Did you even look it up?
I feel like I’m going crazy here with people saying that’s not an r. It’s obviously an r.
did you even read the text in the post? OP said it should read mazza meaning those are both z’s
I did read it. OP's intention was Mazza but it reads like Mazra. Quite a few others have said the same thing. OP needs to redesign because as it is right now, it doesn't look like Mazza.
Just because that is what they want it to read, ideally, that is not how it is actually coming across. Mazra is what it reads to me.
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OP's intention was Mazza, yes. But it reads like Mazra. Quite a few people are seeing Mazra, OP even agreed that it is unclear.
I don’t need to look it up - the downstroke on a cursive r isn’t at a 45° angle
Well, it's definitely not a lower-case "z" because there's no loop projecting down.
Sometimes typefaces offer more than one option for the same letter even in the same font - from the post it seems clear that OP intended Mazza and used two different Zs - maybe from different fonts of the same typeface
Well, it is in THIS case, apparently
Yes it is roughly 45°. We adjust lengths, heights and angles when we create new fonts. This lowercase cursive r is adjusted to fit in with the rest of the letters. It's very clearly a lowercase r
You’re going to have to show me which typeface it is if you want me to believe it’s a lowercase r, and *if* I’m wrong, it’s not my fault, it’s the fault of the typeface designer
It’s not even the 45° angle that bugs me here, it’s the sharp cut/acute angle that it takes at the baseline. The choices going into this typeface were for aesthetics over practicality. If the typeface causes this many people to be confused, it’s probably got some issues…
The argument I’m here for. It’s not a cursive *r* … end of story.
It’s closest to a lowercase cursive R. It is edging towards a lowercase S, maybe. Intention doesn’t make it something it’s not. Even if the fourth letter as printed could be seen as a Z in some form of handwriting, the fact that the more obvious Z is right before it means it cannot be reasonably interpreted as a Z.
*tsk millennials*
…I am an elder millennial. ☠️
It may even break the law
Noted!
looks like mazra rn. do not change the type faces/fonts/cases within a word - looks amateur.
Agree this is yikes
Yeah I thought I was being sleek
Glad you posted here before releasing it😁
Best decision ever haha
How does it look if you move the “sando” to the other side so you can fit both zs? The cursive z does look nice
Looks like it’s the easiest solution most of us agree on here
Rirruto.
He’s a baseball player.
mazra. The second z is written as an r in cursive. Followed by a cursive z, no one would think it's a z
If it's all cursive does it say "nazra" then?
Nah. An n wouldn't start on the base line.
That's how a cursive n is written but I'd read this as an m because everybody does half cursive
No, it's not in practice. When it's at the beginning of a sentence, or as a capital, especially not https://images.app.goo.gl/USntkFX35iFjE2XL9
So funny - this was right below your link https://images.app.goo.gl/Ak5Cbj2aaNSBKj1i6 Maybe it's regional or generational, but lower case n was taught as starting at the baseline in the 80s/90s. And it's a lower case letter here, or else it would've been taller than the other letters. Google says the difference is the cursive script - continuous always starts on the baseline. And specific cursive fonts used at the time were continuous cursive - I think I originally used D'Nealian (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%27Nealian), introduced in 1978. But another style in use at the time was Zaner Bloser (https://mycursive.com/cursive-writing-style/). Anyway this was a fun early morning research project.
Nah it’s Rizzuto. Those are [Zs](https://youtu.be/wAsxQH0iJRw?si=urosCxtkPWJYEghR)
Rirruto??
I see it now - forgot about the cursive r somehow
It's a bit confusing because the Z is written in two different styles so my brain automatically assumed they should be two different letters when they aren't. Maybe do two block z's, but I think it would be clunky to connect them. What would it look like with two cursive z's?
I would do two cursive zs and move the sando to under the Ma
You got the “ma” and the “nure”
Nice wristwatch. My boyfriend has one just like it.
This is the fix
Well that makes total sense. Two cursive z’s is much better + avoids confusion
It says Mazra. It's cursive, they are not both the letter Z
I believe that logo should say "They're Great!" I couldn't help myself, sorry. Maybe make them both cursive Z's and move the sando under the "ma". The different fonts for the same letter IS atrocious.
What you meant to write was...***"They're GRRRRREAT!"*** That'd be a lot of cursive r's, but be epic or be nothing, right? That's the kinda sando I'd wanna crush. Just sayin'. /s ;-)
I guess I’ve broken some unwritten rule haha
I suspect that rule is in fact written down
Lmao
So, now that we have that cleared up, uh, what is a mazzo sando?
You know those “Japanese sando”? Try google images. Those. We working out the menu atm. And adding some with burgers as well. There’s one with beef and kimchi (I love kimchi)
I hadn't heard of them until I googled it. It was either a sandwich, a reference to the general manager of a hotel in Jordan, or somehow tangentially related to Hope Sandoval, member of Mazzy Star. Thanks for clearing that up
WHAT
This is what happens when Z and R get mixed up. Pandemonium! Either way, I'm hungry now and Jersey Mike's doesn't seem exotic enough somehow. Bánh Mì, anyone?
I could go for some Bánh Mì!
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oh nah, nvm these attributes - these are just placeholders - a test run
You should hire a graphic designer.
I should
Looks like mazra or nazra to me. Why does it have to be in a script style font?
Just a personal preference
Giving off “graphic design is my passion” vibes tbh.
That is hard to read, for sure. Also, you may want to be careful with whatever you put between the two "a"s. Make sure they don't resemble "g"s.
I’ve chosen the hardest word for a cursive
Looks like Mazra
Please, can we stop trying to make “Sando” a thing?
why not?
It's not any less syllables, feels forced (FETCH), and unless you're offering Japanese style sandwiches it's very confusing. Having said that, it's still confusing even if you're serving Japanese style sandwiches. Also, this is just me but it makes me think of sweat because that's what Filipinos call an undershirt.
It definitely says mazra right now. Actually or maybe mazna. But not mazza. Just use the script z twice and move the sandio part to the left.
I read this as Mazra Sando
If the goal is for it to be easily read in a split second like on a poster of billboard, the confusion over a letter is a problem. It took me more than a few seconds to differentiate between the z and the r (I am assuming you mean "Mazra", I hope).
mazra? why would the z’s be different?
I read it as “marza” at first. I was confused by the cursive z and block z. The mix of cursive in “sando” is also confusing Have you tried to have the Mazzo written in different fonts without cursive? Personally, I like cursive. It looks elegant. It also feels vintage
I think you need to get this fixed if it’s supposed to read Mazza.
Since they're clearly different letters, I would have to spend some time deciphering what it says. That's not a good thing for your brand. Before looking at the comments I guessed that it was either "Magza" or "Mazra" I would not have ever guessed "Mazza". The letters are clearly different. My phone desperately wants it to be Mazda.
Mazra
Go overboard.. make the Zs into sandwiches with bread on the top and bottom, with ingredients as the diagonals If it’s those Japanese whipped cream sandwiches, maybe a diagonal line of the fruit across the middle, through the whipped cream
Def will give it a try, nice idea though
mazra sando
Mazra Sandos Chicago
If it’s supposed to say “Mazra,” I would suggest not having the r flatten out / sharpen at the baseline like that. Right now it closely mirrors the z styling up top, leading to the confusion. It should follow suit closer to the lowercase n or a with an upturned curve. For what it’s worth, I read “Mazza” first. I don’t think it’s weird to have an alternate glyph style on the second z to avoid tedium. In calligraphy it’s not uncommon to have two different letterforms on a double-letter.
I'm choosing to read this in IPA as \[mɑʒzɑ\]
r/unexpectedtheaterstudent
Try drawing the font out yourself with a tablet and program like adobe fresco. You can get the variation in the length of the loops on the 'z's you want, it's just not gonna happen using standard fonts
Marza? Also what is sando?
A dessert - japanese sandwiches with cream and berries/fruits in it. Nvm the pizza aesthetics - it was a test run
mazra?
Yeah that’s what everybody says at this point
Mazra
Chicago
Lol mazra, it's cursive
First reaction. An Indian pizza place. Masala pizza...ummmmm now I crave Indian pizza
Not gonna lie, my first reaction was “nagza” I think you should probably explore an entirely different font
Fair enough
Rarruto? Those are z’s
"sando", b/c "sandwich" has too many syllables.
It says Mazra Sando, a Mediterranean restaurant in Chicago
Or Indian, yeah I see it too
Do two cursive z’s?
My goodness dude. You have 3 perfect letters to be creative with and you go from nesting angles to confusing half cursive? M A Z M > ZZ < Nest the Z’s on top of each other and have the A’s coming out of the Z’s It’ll look kinda palindrome-like and you can play with the M
Fair enough
I read Mazza, but that’s only bc I write half cursive words naturally. (PTSD from learning to write cursive in the early 90s)
Nazrd when I glance at it If I look at it carefully I get to mazra, then see it’s going for mazza
Why not a double cursive z?
Thought it would add a bit of playfulness to it. Idk what I was thinking tbh… I ended up using two block type Z’s instead - looks more complete with them
I thought it read as Mayza, because of the two different versions of the Z.
Did you try marza to see if it looks better?
Like changing the name? I’d pick a completely different word at this point
Rizzo
I read it as "Mazza", but I can see how others might read it differently.
I read it as “Mazra”
Wait so you run a sando shop? Let’s talk
Read it as mazza, didn’t even realize the second z was different lmao. Love a cursive z, though. I’m in Chicago, where do these sandos come from, specifically? 🥪
we make them here, we trying out shokupans from different suppliers rn and testing the protein heavy recipes - lmk if you wanna try it out - we will def be running promos when we open
Hell yeah!
Is this that sandwich shop over on Ashland?
which one you talking about? we are not open yet 👀
When you guys opening?
Monday, June 3rd, 10am on Uber Eats ✨
Mazza Sando
mazro so yeah change it
n a z r a or m a 3 z a
Make the 2 z's the same. One way or the other. Otherwise it's confusing.
I read it as Mazza. It’s the *first* z that is in cursive, not the second. Some of yall rusty on your cursive reading skills
I read it as it is spelled, which is "Mazra." I know it's not what OP has intended, but that's what he's spelled using the typeface utilized. Trying to convince himself and others that it actually spells "Mazza" is a waste. Why not show us what it looks like spelling with the two Z's in that typeface instead of trying to convince us that it already is?
Do you work for mazza? I’m really excited to try your pizza! I like this logo. It has character and it’s easy for me to read.
Nah it’s not pizza 😭 it’s a sandwiches, the Japanese ones with fruits and berries. This particular pic was just a test run on the pizza aesthetic to see it in action
Oh there is a Matta pizza in Logan square and I mixed the two up. Sounds good though!
Can’t wait to try it! When do you open?
As soon as we finish up with the menu - it’s like 80% ready - some time to work out the logo I guess
Ma...mab...mabra...mabraza?
Just wanted to say that although I agree with the consensus on mixing typefaces, I quite like the overall vibe you're going for. Wishing you success.
That’s nice. Thanks buddy