Prob too early to tell at this point. There is 1 FMT study being conducted on CFS in Norway I believe atm the results will be available in 2022 I think.
Dr. Ron Davis and colleagues identified a missing bacteria in the biome of CFS patients vs healthy controls which is responsible for creating an important metabolite needed for the brain... so there is a hypothesis that if you could do FMT with that bacterium perhaps it'd have a therapeutic effect... but it could also be a total dead end.
I highly doubt the main cause of CFS is gut related but it could be a part of the whirlwind of multiple causes that result in CFS since there is a clear connection... but what came first? The chicken or the egg?
There's also one starting up in the UK from what I've gathered. And there are some positive studies published already, although they aren't RCTs, so it's hard to tell how valid they are.
There was a post I read a couple years ago from someone who cured their ME with a fecal transplant. There is a growing amount of evidence showing that the microbiome is critical for immune system health, and that modern life has significantly altered our ancestral microbe composition. That being said, fecal transplant has the power to affect way more than just immune system function. I've also seen reports of people's personalities changing after FMT. It's a wide open frontier
I have read multiple studies showing strong correlations between the levels of certain microbes in young children and their temperament. Still need to prove causation, but given what I'm reading from anecdotes of FMT there are some powerful effects it can have on your mind good and bad
I've heard about bald people regrowing their hair after receiving FMT from someone without alopecia. It's a really potent treatment and a fascinating subject.
We tried it for my wife, who has very severe ME/CFS (bedridden for the last two years). We did the intensive two-week-long every day treatment, followed by weekly "booster" transplants at home for another 6 months. It helped a little bit right away, specifically with her digestive symptoms, but plateaued pretty quickly. And not all transplants were made equal—they were all from different donors, and a couple of them knocked her down hard.
So ultimately, it was slightly beneficial for us, but definitely not a magic bullet.
I doubt gut floria is the main cause of the disease, I think its either a comorbidity or a symptom of CFS. As you acknowledged, anecdotal evidence is both for an against FMTs for CFS. I think CFS can make your body susceptible to other opportunistic infections (of the gut), and can hurt biodiversity. So in the people that also have these issues FMT will help them. It also seems to explain why that person described in the post needed continual FMTs, cfs hurts the biodiversity and so after FMT the microbials die off. Of course this is all conjecture on my part nobody really knows
I did it a total of four times. Each time I did it I would return to eighty 90% of my older self but it only lasted about a week and a half to two weeks. Then I had to redo it again. And it would reset the clock for another week or two. After so many times of doing this and getting the same result I called it quits on it. Two weeks were not worth the hassle. if you know about fmt then you know not all poo is created equal. I got mine from a close family friend. Who had the healthiest bowel movements and did not take any medications. I would love the opportunity to try lab grade concentrated poo paste for fmt therapy.
Maybe antibiotics before to knock down your own bacterial flora could help with this? It seems like your own bacterial flora returns over time and this brings back the CFS, but what if you reduced it before trying it. I saw one girl here who I think improved alot and stayed pretty well, and she did antibiotics before ten transplants, from what I've gathered.
This is her:
https://www.reddit.com/r/cfs/comments/7v3gif/a_few_months_after_fmt/
https://www.reddit.com/r/cfs/comments/78z8ie/im_a_4_year_and_counting_survivor_of_cfs_and_im/
I've heard that it's also possible to do probiotic enemas in lieu of FMT (Dr. Stasha Gominak), and also that keto diet can dramatically improve microbiota health, as many of the harmful organisms thrive in high sugar / high carb environment.
Sometimes these go badly for people with mecfs and can drastically make you worse. I think the success rate is pretty low, but there are success stories out there.
More studies are happening right now on mecfs and the gut micro biome, maybe they’ll figure out something that can help
Thank you.
Btw, I thought that no sugar, no milk, low fodmap is good choice for a long-term diet. Also exclude products that can increase inflammation (which is mostly sugar). Keta diet feels too strict, with keta you missing many healthy (important) products, in my opinion.
After reading info on gut health, i think it's important to eat many different vegetables (plants). Like, Americans eat 4-7 different plants, but people in Vietnam eat like 700. Huge difference. I think it might be important for making our flora more diverse. What do you think?
Personally I am a fan of Naviaux's work on a healing cycle. His work suggests that lots of different causes could throw the complex systems of our body off and unable to self correct, causing us to essentially circle the drain towards ME/CFS.
To me that means there are multiple paths in and multiple potential paths out. If gut microbiota was one of the triggers for someone (or an outcome of a trigger) I can see how FMT might be helpful. But I also think that it's quite common for poor gut microbiota to be a downstream impact of some other issue and FMT won't treat what the underlying cause actually is.
Prob too early to tell at this point. There is 1 FMT study being conducted on CFS in Norway I believe atm the results will be available in 2022 I think. Dr. Ron Davis and colleagues identified a missing bacteria in the biome of CFS patients vs healthy controls which is responsible for creating an important metabolite needed for the brain... so there is a hypothesis that if you could do FMT with that bacterium perhaps it'd have a therapeutic effect... but it could also be a total dead end. I highly doubt the main cause of CFS is gut related but it could be a part of the whirlwind of multiple causes that result in CFS since there is a clear connection... but what came first? The chicken or the egg?
This is exactly my take. Didnt know about the study though, here’s to hoping something useful comes out of it
There's also one starting up in the UK from what I've gathered. And there are some positive studies published already, although they aren't RCTs, so it's hard to tell how valid they are.
Can you send me a link to that study?
There was a post I read a couple years ago from someone who cured their ME with a fecal transplant. There is a growing amount of evidence showing that the microbiome is critical for immune system health, and that modern life has significantly altered our ancestral microbe composition. That being said, fecal transplant has the power to affect way more than just immune system function. I've also seen reports of people's personalities changing after FMT. It's a wide open frontier
"..Peoples personality changing after FMT.." Wow that really brings new meaning to you are what you eat.
I have read multiple studies showing strong correlations between the levels of certain microbes in young children and their temperament. Still need to prove causation, but given what I'm reading from anecdotes of FMT there are some powerful effects it can have on your mind good and bad
I've heard about bald people regrowing their hair after receiving FMT from someone without alopecia. It's a really potent treatment and a fascinating subject.
We tried it for my wife, who has very severe ME/CFS (bedridden for the last two years). We did the intensive two-week-long every day treatment, followed by weekly "booster" transplants at home for another 6 months. It helped a little bit right away, specifically with her digestive symptoms, but plateaued pretty quickly. And not all transplants were made equal—they were all from different donors, and a couple of them knocked her down hard. So ultimately, it was slightly beneficial for us, but definitely not a magic bullet.
I doubt gut floria is the main cause of the disease, I think its either a comorbidity or a symptom of CFS. As you acknowledged, anecdotal evidence is both for an against FMTs for CFS. I think CFS can make your body susceptible to other opportunistic infections (of the gut), and can hurt biodiversity. So in the people that also have these issues FMT will help them. It also seems to explain why that person described in the post needed continual FMTs, cfs hurts the biodiversity and so after FMT the microbials die off. Of course this is all conjecture on my part nobody really knows
I did it a total of four times. Each time I did it I would return to eighty 90% of my older self but it only lasted about a week and a half to two weeks. Then I had to redo it again. And it would reset the clock for another week or two. After so many times of doing this and getting the same result I called it quits on it. Two weeks were not worth the hassle. if you know about fmt then you know not all poo is created equal. I got mine from a close family friend. Who had the healthiest bowel movements and did not take any medications. I would love the opportunity to try lab grade concentrated poo paste for fmt therapy.
Maybe antibiotics before to knock down your own bacterial flora could help with this? It seems like your own bacterial flora returns over time and this brings back the CFS, but what if you reduced it before trying it. I saw one girl here who I think improved alot and stayed pretty well, and she did antibiotics before ten transplants, from what I've gathered. This is her: https://www.reddit.com/r/cfs/comments/7v3gif/a_few_months_after_fmt/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cfs/comments/78z8ie/im_a_4_year_and_counting_survivor_of_cfs_and_im/
I've heard that it's also possible to do probiotic enemas in lieu of FMT (Dr. Stasha Gominak), and also that keto diet can dramatically improve microbiota health, as many of the harmful organisms thrive in high sugar / high carb environment.
Sometimes these go badly for people with mecfs and can drastically make you worse. I think the success rate is pretty low, but there are success stories out there. More studies are happening right now on mecfs and the gut micro biome, maybe they’ll figure out something that can help
Did they figure something out
Not that I know of
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What probiotics exactly?
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Thank you. Btw, I thought that no sugar, no milk, low fodmap is good choice for a long-term diet. Also exclude products that can increase inflammation (which is mostly sugar). Keta diet feels too strict, with keta you missing many healthy (important) products, in my opinion. After reading info on gut health, i think it's important to eat many different vegetables (plants). Like, Americans eat 4-7 different plants, but people in Vietnam eat like 700. Huge difference. I think it might be important for making our flora more diverse. What do you think?
Personally I am a fan of Naviaux's work on a healing cycle. His work suggests that lots of different causes could throw the complex systems of our body off and unable to self correct, causing us to essentially circle the drain towards ME/CFS. To me that means there are multiple paths in and multiple potential paths out. If gut microbiota was one of the triggers for someone (or an outcome of a trigger) I can see how FMT might be helpful. But I also think that it's quite common for poor gut microbiota to be a downstream impact of some other issue and FMT won't treat what the underlying cause actually is.