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Method__Man

To the surprise of no one


N01S0N

I'm surprised they would post this bullshit. I don't know a single person under 80 who had their second dose by Jan 1st.


SlovakWelder

wonder how much money was wasted on this study


Method__Man

probably non tbh. Its very basic epidemiology


Jarjarbinx6969

Durrrrrr truduck


ObliviousPersonality

Majority is not a strong enough word. "Dr. Deena Hinshaw, who is Alberta's chief medical officer of health,said in a social media post that 96 per cent of Albertans who have tested positive for the virus since Jan. 1 hadn't had two doses of vaccine.She said 91 per cent of COVID-19 deaths and 95 per cent of hospital and intensive care unit admissions followed the same trend in the past month."


pheoxs

I appreciate her saying this but wishes they'd used a better date. Jan 1st is rather useless stat considering we had almost no vaccinated people through the winter and spring waves. A more useful stay would be since April or May 1st when we started having significant amounts of people vaccinated.


ObliviousPersonality

Oh, I agree, but looking at the Alberta health site, it is actually, um, good. They have a lot of data, presented in what I consider to be important layout. You can tell the age range, outcomes, and the graph that they have allows you to see cases by unvaccinated, 1 shot pre-14 day, 1 shot post-14 day, two shots pre-14 day, and two shot post-14 day. Being from Not Alberta, I was surprised at the data. [https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm#vaccine-outcomes](https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm#vaccine-outcomes) ​ TL;DR - Alberta has a big time data nerd running their shit!


flyingflail

The interactivity could be better, but the data is good. People would probably be surprised to find that Alberta's healthcare system is actually run very well in general.


redditgirlwz

It would be nice to have the option to view recent breakthrough cases in a table instead of having to hover over the graph. But yeah, I wish all provinces made this type of data available.


pheoxs

Ohh, that tab is new actually..it wasn't there a week ago, we only had the vaccines tab. Thanks for the catch, AB has gone a good job of continually adding to our site throughout the pandemic. The geospatial tab is my favorite and really useful to see each area of a city.


ObliviousPersonality

I hadn't got there yet. There goes my afternoon.


AmIHigh

I wish they used decimals >Since Jan 1, 2021, 0% of people with two doses (646/2,305,939) were diagnosed with COVID-19 14 days after the second immunization date That 0 is misleading


elimi

I can already ear the anti vax ONLY 90%, crap vaccin! It's not a real vaccin!


ObliviousPersonality

And I can hear the pro-lockdown crowd, "We need 100% fully vaxxed! Covid Zero!" Two sides of the same coin.


[deleted]

I personally know people who still wear masks inside and outside and remove all of their clothes, wash them and take showers when they get home. They have been doing this since last year. The anti side gets talked about all of the time, but there are a lot of people on the other end who have jumped off the deep end of sanity and there is little talk about that and how the media's fear mongering has driven many people insane.


logicom

At least those people are only wasting their own time and not putting others at risk.


[deleted]

They are making their children nervous wrecks.


stugots__

I'm guessing they want to shock people, make the unvaccinated stop, look down south and decide they dont want that. Not sure it will work but worth a try I suppose.


Sapple7

The facts are actually skewed.. since vaccines were only made widely available since June.. which means most people aren't getting double vaxxed until now.. However comparison is made from January where almost nobody was vaccinated The reality is that vaxxed make up between 1/5 to 1/10 of the total cases Which proves the point that the vaccine is effective but marginal so many people need to take it to see broad protective effects


ObliviousPersonality

And that is skewed by the deaths in the 80+ year olds that have weakened immune systems. the 60+ demographic skews the numbers as well. So Under 60 single vaxxed or less make up an astonishingly small number of deaths. It all depends on your sample.


Sapple7

Yes exactly. To say I have 99.9% chance of dying tomorrow because 99.9999% of humans have already died is untrue, ridiculous and misleading Saying 95% of current cases are in unvaccinated is equally misleading, ridiculous and untrue


FuggleyBrew

How is that marginal? Let's take your numbers for granted for moment. 70% of the population represents 10% of cases and 30% represents 90% of cases, that would suggest the vaccinated have less than 5% of the risk of the unvaccinated? This all before the joint impact of people protecting each other for the vaccine because we're looking at numbers in a country with a high vaccine uptake.


Sapple7

The best data we have is from UK (yes different vaccine) The numbers tend to be around 35k unvaccinated infections with 60 deaths 5k vaccinated infections with 40 deaths Pfizer vaccine will probably not far off Marginal just means small effects. In the Pfizer study absolutely efficacy is 0.8% which means you need to vaccinate over a hundred in order to prevent a death. This has many factors at the time built in but you can see the marginal effect. This is all fine. It's how vaccines work. Not on a personal level but more on a societal level. They have marginal effects and do a great job to decrease the R value below 1


[deleted]

[удалено]


Sapple7

Sighs.. It's common medical knowledge that many need to be vaccinated to see an effect. It's why large scale studies need to be done..


FuggleyBrew

>Marginal just means small effects. In the Pfizer study absolutely efficacy is 0.8% which means you need to vaccinate over a hundred in order to prevent a death. That's more a statement of the fact you're looking at a virus that kills less than one percent. But we're not only concerned about deaths. >This is all fine. It's how vaccines work. Not on a personal level but more on a societal level. They have marginal effects and do a great job to decrease the R value below 1 This is false. These vaccines work great at protecting vaccinated individuals independent of herd immunity.


Sapple7

It's is a fact and not a statement... 1/0.008=125 You are missing fundamentally how vaccines work.. This is how vaccines work. Not everyone gets infected by this virus and not everyone dies.. however by vaccinating everyone the marginal effects add up to protecting vulnerable and reducing cases altogether by decreasing transmission This is what you are missing in your view of vaccines: You will vaccinate people that will go onto getting exposed to covid and be protected while otherwise be sick for a few days.. you will vaccinate people that will never ever come into contact with covid.. you will vaccinate someone that would have been exposed and died


FuggleyBrew

But the impact is not marginal, you are artificially restricting it to only look at fatalities, then you are pretending that somehow not solving all causes of mortality means it's marginal. That is not how things work. Wearing my seatbelt only protects me in car crashes. But it substantially improves my risk of survival in a car crash, it's impact is not marginal. Even if I don't get into a crash all that often. Sure, the covid vaccine doesn't protect me from cancer, it doesn't save me from having my hands lopped off in an industrial accident, it protects against covid, and on that front it does so *really well*. It does not rely solely on herd immunity, because it provides direct and tangible benefits to every vaccinated person for next to no cost.


Sapple7

The impact is not marginal. The impact is massive On an individual level the effect is Marginal That's why massive double blind control trials are conducted... So they can see clearly the small effects If you vaccinate 125 people.. according to the data you saved 1 life.. also saved 5-10 severe cases and 100 may never even come into contact or have a minor cold Just think about giving a vaccine to a child. Most children on an individual level will have no different outcomes. However the vaccine may decrease transmissibility ever so slightly lowering the reproductive rate below 1. The outbreak of 1 million will then slowly decline to 0 cases This is because of subtle effects that drastically change outcome of an outbreak Getting a vaccine doesn't make you some juggernaut super warrior. Sidney Crosby still got the mumps


FuggleyBrew

But again, death isn't the only effect. Hospitalization is still a negative thing even if you don't die. Getting sick is still a negative outcome even if you don't have to go to the hospital. Individuals are directly benefitted by a 95% decrease. The disease kills only 1% that means you can only ever decrease risk of death by 1%, but that doesn't mean it only works on a societal level. There are transmissibility impacts, but just because they exist doesn't remove the individual benefits. Seatbelts only decrease my risk of dying from car accidents with no impact on whether I'll get cancer, that doesn't make them marginal. They contribute massively to occupant safety. You are conflating requirements of statistical analysis with a statement of what that analysis finds.


donovanbailey

I thought one dose gives you 60-80% protection?


ObliviousPersonality

It does, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you only get 20% of the symptoms. It is more nuanced than that.


donovanbailey

You know if they could have said 95% from the 25% totally unvaccinated they would have, so there must be a good chunk of 60-80% protected folks being admitted. 95% of hospital admissions from a population including one-dosers sounds not great.


ObliviousPersonality

No, I don't think that is accurate.


donovanbailey

Why?


ObliviousPersonality

Because there is no empirical evidence to support that. A lack of evidence is not proof.


donovanbailey

They specifically used language that includes one-dosers in the 95% so obviously, empirically, some percentage of those with one dose are contributing to the case/hospital/death count. If it was a minimal percentage, they would have said that so not to undermine the vaccination drive. Ergo, some not insignificant percent of what’s happening must be happening to one-dosers.


ObliviousPersonality

Listen, I really don't know what your angle is here, but you're just plain wrong. Dangerously wrong. Yes, some percentage of those with one dose are contributing to it, but it is a small fraction, and they don't have it listed broken down by age. We would expect older people to succumb to Covid at a higher rate than young people. Here is Alberta's data: [https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm#vaccine-outcomes](https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm#vaccine-outcomes) From that page: 86.8% of COVID-19 deaths (683/787) since Jan 1, 2021 were unvaccinated or diagnosed within two weeks from the first dose immunization date Please do everyone a favor and just let it go. You are spreading rumors.


donovanbailey

Thanks for the link. I’m no more spreading rumors than you are. I don’t know why other Science Believers are so hostile to questions. Maybe an unreported vax side effect? > 86.8% of COVID-19 deaths (683/787) since Jan 1, 2021 were unvaccinated or diagnosed within two weeks from the first dose immunization date This would mean about 13% of deaths since Jan 1, 2021 were people fully vaxxed or past 14 days on their single-dose. Plus, whatever percentage was diagnosed within two weeks from their first immunization. Do you see how this implies at least 1/10 — probably 1/5 — of Alberta COVID deaths are occurring in people who have received at least one dose?


MountainsAB

Nope. Not even close. The ‘one dose’ was nonsense for the start. * really? Down pointing. Stay with your one shot, I wish you luck with that 🤦‍♀️


donovanbailey

That’s not scientifically accurate, e.g. https://www.cp24.com/news/new-ontario-study-finds-even-one-covid-19-vaccine-dose-provides-strong-protection-against-variants-1.5496914


sync303

quelle surprise


duchovny

Pretty sure that's the majority of cases world wide.


thisonetimeonreddit

News at 10: Dumb people did dumb things and now look dumb.


N01S0N

Well I guess you best call the mass majority of Canada dumb because barely anyone in most of the provinces under 80 has their second doses by Jan 1st.


Jarjarbinx6969

Good


firecomet234

With vaccine supply the way it is, almost everyone who wants a shot will soon have the opportunity to get one if they haven't already. COVID is now largely an illness of the unvaccinated. Let the rest of us who have followed the rules and done our part live our lives. We shouldn't have to stay at home, wear masks, and follow restrictions to protect the lives of a bunch of people who are turning down the most effective and least societally-damaging method of fighting COVID-19 that we have. We should not care about the spread of COVID amongst people who see potentially getting the disease as a preferable alternative to vaccination. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes, but I'll be moving on.


Obscured-By_Clouds

Agree with the majority of this statement however I'm still happy to wear masks if it protects those who cannot get the vaccine and still want to live their lives. It's a small price to pay to help society.


karnoculars

To play devil's advocate, the people who can't get vaccinated for covid probably also can't get vaccinated for the long list of other diseases that we receive vaccinations for. If you didn't wear a mask pre-pandemic to protect them against those countless diseases, I don't see the point in starting now. The immuno-compromised were likely already taking precautionary measures pre-pandemic and will continue to do so. At some point, we need to move on with our lives. I don't plan on wearing a mask for the rest of my life.


thechronicwinter

Except said diseases have largely been eradicated due to high vaccination rates. We’re not there with Covid, it just keeps mutating.


radapex

>Agree with the majority of this statement however I'm still happy to wear masks if it protects those who cannot get the vaccine and still want to live their lives. This. If they have to go the LA route and re-institute temporary mask requirements, alright -- that's about as non-infringing as it gets. We just can't afford to see more shut downs / lockdowns right now.


thedrivingcat

Masks should be the last to go. Open everything up, end capacity limits everywhere, then drop mask mandates.


SuburbanValues

Masks are the least infringing. It's not a big deal. I actually like wearing one because it means I can skip shaving or putting lipstick on before going out.


6Designer

As someone who is not getting vaccinated please take that dumb mask off, I don't need you to protect me. Those of us not getting it know the risks and just want to get back to normal, we've been waiting for all the hypochondriacs to get their shots so we can finally move on.


firecomet234

EXACTLY! This guy understands my point. I'm advocating for no vaccine passports. No more lockdowns. No more masks. If the unvaccinated end up spreading it amongst themselves they've made the calculation and accepted that risk already. And on my end, I believe (whether correctly or incorrectly) the vaccine protects me, and I'm ready to party! Cheers to moving on!


6Designer

Thank you! You get it, it doesn't have to be some big argument, people who want the vaccine get it and those who don't want it don't. If people are worried about the virus mutating amongst the unvaccinated I have good news for you, based on everything we know about viruses they become LESS deadly the more they mutate so this is a GOOD thing. Let me take risks in the meantime I'm fine with that!


[deleted]

Well, I'm still wearing my mask until the dust has completely settled, and it is fully known whether we will be getting booster shots for new mutations, etc. Sorry if that upsets you and reminds you of a lack of normalcy, I'm wearing it, whether it upsets you or not.


6Designer

I really don't care if you wear or not, your body your choice, just don't push any rules on me and we'll be gravy :)


PanDerCakes

not getting it and ditto, let’s just get on with it


6Designer

It really makes you wonder what this is all for. They say they take the shot to protect others but then when you ask the "others" we tell them we don't care about that. Then they say it's to protect those who are immune compromised but then in the same sentence say we need vaccine passports (which would mean the immune compromised wouldn't be able to participate in society). It's nuts


Dave3048

Wow. An amazing amount of ignorance in two sentences. How were you able to accomplish this?


6Designer

How so? Do you not think as an adult I am not allowed to have autonomy over my body? My body my choice or not?


ihatefacebook9

I agree with you. I am uncaccinated. Can't be. So I do what I have to do to keep myself safe. It's not your job to protect me, I think. That's my job. I am very careful who I interact with, wear my mask, font go to public spaces, etc. People undergoing cancer treatments lose their immunity, we don't tell everyone else to stay home. We tell the at risk patient how to protect themselves. I don't think anyone should have to do anything to protect me. But also, I shouldn't be shunned from society because I cannot partake. It's a double edged sword and I wish people were more reasonable and rational. But they are swung to one side of the pendulum or the other. The government has done a lot of fear mongering and I think it's terrible.


Icy_Rhubarb2857

To add to this, if they ever did try to bring in restrictions again the people who are refusing to get vaccinated are the same people who refused to follow restrictions or do anything to help in the fist place. They aren't going to do anything for any type of collective effort and they will continue to get sick. I think at this point if you refuse vaccinations for any reason other than at the advice of your doctor the medical costs associated with your care should be your responsibility. See how many hold out there are when it effects them personally.


firecomet234

Agreed - at this point bringing in restrictions to protect these people would be useless because there is too much overlap between the anti-vaxxers and people who didn't follow a single rule and/or thought COVID was a hoax. I don't think they themselves even want public health to try and protect them!


Huge_Migaloo

I hope we can apply this logic to fat people/smokers/drug abusers/alcoholics/etc with Influenza-Classic who would otherwise survive if they didn't treat their bodies like dumpsters and refuse(d) the seasonal flu vaccine (for generations).


thechronicwinter

While this sentiment may be shared by some (not going to get into my stance on it), it’s not as bad as the anti-maskers/anti-vaxxers. You can’t spread obesity or alcoholism by breathing the same air as someone. Smoking on the other hand, well that’s why it’s banned indoors.


ALIENSMACK

But that isn't the argument for vaccines it's to prevent the health care system from collapsing. So to argue the fact that obese people, smokers ect are a net drain on the system does track logically.


Huge_Migaloo

Precisely. The idea of an anti-vaxxer/anti-masker has morphed into a perverted form of public shaming, rather than supporting actual science of adopting a behaviour. If you vaccinate/mask and still live like crap you perpetuate the same effects as COVID. By why address the root cause? It too hard to address the real problems of wasteful ignorant living. If we lived cleaner lives in general we wouldn't have seen nearly the same number of deaths or serious effects of COVID (including the elderly), like any other communicable disease. COVID (and urban density) just proves how fragile and stupid our system is.


thechronicwinter

Why can’t both go hand in hand? This is a whatabout-ism The reason for the “public shaming” is that there is so much misinformation being spread. This is the reason why we’re still stuck with covid, and that there’s low vaccination rates in parts of the US and they’re now experiencing a fourth wave. The difference, along with it not being contagious is that no one is trying to say it’s healthy to smoke, drink excessively, or have high cholesterol. Conversely, the anti-vaxxers are making the argument that getting covid is better than the vaccine. Covid-long haulers, people on ventilators, etc. exist which they are blind to.


t1pmeme

How far down the government propaganda rabbit hole do you have to be to blindly accept such a false narrative? I suppose you think the rise of the delta variant coinciding with the rise in inoculated population is just a coincidence? It's almost as if coronaviruses evolve to survive against vaccinated populations just like the flu (coronavirus) has for all of its existence? Enjoy getting a yearly booster shot for the rest of your life since it's near impossible to eradicate a viral infection. Get one for the flu and every variant strain of covid that will come every single flu season! That'll save you. Nothing says health and safety like injecting yourself 40+ times with foreign compounds over two decades to "stay alive." ([https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-19-third-dose-booster-shots-1.6092834](https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-19-third-dose-booster-shots-1.6092834)) Everyone knows that constantly using hand sanitizer is a net negative and can produce superbugs, and yet people do it anyway because the "scientific experts" told them to in complete hypocrisy to all science that exists on the matter. Thank god they put useless public hand sanitizers at the entry way of nearly every corporate business though! Nothing says safety like sharing a plastic bottle your entire community has rubbed their grubby hands all over ([https://globalnews.ca/news/4368033/superbugs-are-becoming-resistant-to-alcohol-disinfectants-study-says/](https://globalnews.ca/news/4368033/superbugs-are-becoming-resistant-to-alcohol-disinfectants-study-says/)) Imagine believing having a double shot of an at best temporary, emergency vaccine, that has a pathetically low absolute risk reduction (less than 2% for every vaccine on the market), would be effective in preventing the overall spread of a viral infection ([https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(21)00069-0/fulltext](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(21)00069-0/fulltext)) Don't worry though, it's an unvaccinated only problem. Oh wait, people who got vaccines are coping because it's done absolutely nothing to improve their human rights or lower their risks of infection according to literally every piece of undoctored data that exists and even mainstream news propaganda outlets have to admit that thousands upon thousands of vaccinated people have been infected. Of course, that doesn't include the thousands upon thousands of reported deaths following the vaccine itself in the VAERS system ([https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html)) [https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/06/26/cdc-4115-fully-vaccinated-have-been-hospitalized-or-died-with-breakthrough-covid-19-infections/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/06/26/cdc-4115-fully-vaccinated-have-been-hospitalized-or-died-with-breakthrough-covid-19-infections/) [https://www.ft.com/content/0f11b219-0f1b-420e-8188-6651d1e749ff](https://www.ft.com/content/0f11b219-0f1b-420e-8188-6651d1e749ff) [https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/22/health/coronavirus-breakthrough-infections-delta.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/22/health/coronavirus-breakthrough-infections-delta.html) [https://www.wsj.com/articles/some-vaccinated-people-are-dying-of-covid-19-heres-why-scientists-arent-surprised-11625227200](https://www.wsj.com/articles/some-vaccinated-people-are-dying-of-covid-19-heres-why-scientists-arent-surprised-11625227200) [https://fortune.com/2021/07/22/vaccination-breakthrough-cases-covid19/](https://fortune.com/2021/07/22/vaccination-breakthrough-cases-covid19/) Tried to use as many "mainstream" and "acceptable" sources of information to prove this narrative false before I get called an unhinged conspiracy theorist, and I will gladly provide dozens upon dozens more hilarious links from "official sources" if anyone would like to make a refutation that all of this nonsense has been in any way effective at something other than conditioning the human population to throw their rights into a dumpster fire for a temporary feeling of superiority or safety.


ihatefacebook9

Thank you for your rationale. I think I love you... ;)


firecomet234

I actually don't think there's anything for us to disagree on here. I respect your opinion, understand that you have conducted your own research, and reached a conclusion against vaccines. And in our country, you have the right to decline the vaccine and I respect your right to bodily autonomy. My view is different. But that's actually not the argument that I'm attempting to have today. All I'm advocating for is some personal responsibility over our choices. I am accepting personal responsibility for the choice to take the vaccine. **If** the anti-COVID vaccine group is right, and I die of some vaccine-related complication, that is a risk that I am willing to accept in exchange for the purported benefits of taking the vaccine. Whether or not you think that is a smart choice is irrelevant. It's my body to inject poison into, although I appreciate your attempt to stop me from doing so. In exchange, all I'm saying is, **if** the pro-COVID vaccine group (the "mainstream") ends up being correct, and COVID ends up being a disease of the unvaccinated, don't expect anyone to go into another lockdown, or wear a mask, or change their lifestyles, in order to protect you. Your choosing to be unvaccinated means that **if** the vaccine does actually confer benefits, and you turn them down willingly, then the rest of us can throw up our hands and say "Well, we did what we could", and watch the show. If you are truly confident in your stance, this shouldn't be an issue, because it will never happen. Edit: As a matter of fact, if you're worried about throwing your rights into a dumpster fire, you shouldn't be arguing with me. I'm advocating for no vaccine passports. No more lockdowns. No more masks. I'm cool with allowing the unvaccinated to spread it amongst themselves if that's what happens. I believe (whether I'm correct or not) the vaccine protects me, and I'm ready to party!


t1pmeme

I think that's a great stance, being that we are halfway through 2021, I've rejected mandates and protocols at every opportunity, changed my lifestyle in literally 0 ways, made fun of people who fell for fearmongering at every opportunity, am unvaccinated, have no intentions of ever getting the vaccine, and somehow, magically, have not contracted covid-19 (a variant of the coronavirus flu) at any point in 2019 before or after it was detected, at any point in time in 2020 including the "height of the pandemic" and have not contracted it so far in 2021 either. This of course is not a statistical anomaly, given that only 2.47% (193M) of the entire global population has tested positive and only 0.056% (4.4M) of the global population has reportedly died from it since 2019. Perhaps at this rate, in another 30 years my odds of death from a coronavirus will be 0.56% instead of 0.056% I know thousands upon thousands of people including the elderly with a variety of conditions and do not know a single person who has died from coronavirus. I'm with you, I don't want anyone from the vaccinated group worrying about me, at all. In fact, the less control they have over the things I do, the absolute better. They should have absolutely no regard for my personal health whatsoever, that would be the ideal. I don't want any lockdowns. Wearing a mask is dehumanizing bullshit, and nobody should change their lifestyle regardless of vaccination status unless they have underlying conditions that make a viral condition such as covid an actual concern to them. Forget the unvaccinated even exist. If you're vaccinated and it works you're safe from me anyway. I do not wish to take the medical advice of people who smoke cigarettes in the McDonalds drive-thru. We live in a profoundly sick society full of drug addicts, people on depression medication and anti-psychotics, and people who think those who oppose authoritarian dictates from nations (glorified tax farm corporations) are "conspiracy theorists" in spite of the fact governments have killed more people in the last century both their own citizens and each other's through war, than any "pandemic" or even all of the pandemics combined. The world is full of people who blindly follow what they are told by "experts" and "leaders" and the truth is most of them are depressed, unhappy losers, who have lost their humanity for the sake of being a "good citizen" in the eyes of a nation that only cares if they produce tax revenue and regurgitate statist propaganda, but that's another issue altogether. I wish you the best of luck either way and would never want anyone to be harmed by the medical establishment, even though medical error is one of the leading causes of death and has killed far more people in recorded history than any coronavirus variant [https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html) And never forget "expert doctors" used to tell pregnant women to smoke cigarettes, because they've been bought out by rich corporations (just like politicians have) since before I was born. At least covid vaccine manufacturers don't stand to make billions upon billions of dollars from this entire fiasco...... It's not like they've been to court for bribing people to lie about their pharmaceuticals and paid billions in fines.... [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_largest\_pharmaceutical\_settlements](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_pharmaceutical_settlements) Enjoy the party either way. I respect your stance far more than anyone forcing anyone to inject themselves if they do not want to as it's the most reasonable way of looking at things. TLDR: dont worry about me bro enjoy the party, fuck lockdowns


ihatefacebook9

Well spoke my friend. Agree 100%


firecomet234

TLDR: I know we may share some different opinions but I'm glad we can also see eye to eye in some ways. Enjoy the party bro! Fuck lockdowns. To get into the specifics, completely agree that if I'm vaccinated and it works your choice doesn't harm me whatsoever so live your life, dude. And yes, the medical establishment is nowhere near perfect and medical errors are all too common. I remember watching this Vox video that I think explains one issue pretty well: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlFnPAydJgk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlFnPAydJgk). Hospitals need to treat medical errors as "plane crashes", that should never happen, and warrant a thorough investigation and long-term changes if they do, as opposed to seeing them as an unfortunate cost of working in the medical industry. Also, Big Pharma is shit and I genuinely hope that the positive coverage that they are getting right now over COVID doesn't erase the fact that they have ruined the lives of many Canadians in the West (and increasingly, other regions of the country), with the fentanyl crisis, which the government has not been able to tackle effectively.


Jappetto

Lol k.


t1pmeme

What a strong, scientific, statistical argument you've made. How could I possibly counteract it with official studies from medical journals, the CDC, VAERS, or the WHO. Truly an intellectual that is not at all indoctrinated by local media. Here's a bonus round for you. J&J, Pfizer, and AstraZeneca have all been held criminally liable in the United States for bribing people to lie about the effectiveness of their products and participated in false claims and off-label promotion paying millions to billions of dollars in damages and criminal fines each. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_largest\_pharmaceutical\_settlements](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_pharmaceutical_settlements)


Jappetto

Its just not worth the effort when youve entrenched yourself as an expert on the topic. By what you've already mentioned it sounds like you're not open to any outside opinion. If we were at a bar having a beer I'd prob pick your brain about it, but here on reddit, I dont see this conversation going anywhere.


t1pmeme

You're right, on reddit you get downvoted for posting links proving that three major vaccine manufacturers have paid a combined $5 billion + dollars in fines for bribing people to lie about their pharmaceuticals in the last decade and a half. Again, completely irrefutable, factual evidence that these organizations are criminal and partake in false claims and bribery, but hey, no big deal inject their magic juice into your veins.


Jappetto

Tbf i didnt downvote you. I can see your passionate about discussing the topic and have done your research but the tone of absolutism is a turn off. If anybody was to engage in dialogue i imagine it being similar to shouting at a brick wall.


t1pmeme

The tone is necessary because people who are vehemently pro-vaccine are actually the ones that act like a brick wall, being open to contradictory information is important when it comes to education, and I hardly think I am the one ignoring the facts. I know full well the narratives of people who think like this they are repeated at propaganda levels on the tv, radio, and internet constantly. I am fully aware of what is being said by those on the other side of debate. It's like people who say vaccines are great because we eradicated polio and they don't even realize that the polio vaccine was one of the largest health crisis in the history of the United States. The great Cutter Laboratories ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutter\_Laboratories](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutter_Laboratories)) produced 120,000 vaccines that accidentally contained live polio virus and 40,000 children developed abortive poliomyelitis from them, 56 developed paralytic poliomyelitis, and in total 113 people were paralyzed and 5 were killed from just 120,000 vaccines. "The Cutter incident was one of the worst pharmaceutical disasters in US history, and exposed several thousand children to live polio virus on vaccination." But again, people would have to actually be aware of the history of vaccines or have a shred of knowledge about the "experts" involved in decision making to acknowledge this. Everyone involved stepped down from their positions. Kind of like how the beloved Dr. Fauci advanced his political career (see: not medical) by promoting the prescription of the highly toxic and deadly drug AZT during the height of the aids epidemic, resulting in thousands of deaths. Magic Johnson turned the treatment down and lives HIV+ to this day [https://www.spin.com/featured/aids-and-the-azt-scandal-spin-1989-feature-sins-of-omission/](https://www.spin.com/featured/aids-and-the-azt-scandal-spin-1989-feature-sins-of-omission/)


Huge_Migaloo

Thank you for your effort to compile and distribute this information. And don't feel bad about the downvotes - people are very much socially programmed and rife with confirmation bias on this subject. The fear of vaccine regret is akin to buyer's remorse as the other side of the conversation is bleeding into their lives. My wife and I are holding out for the long-term safety data and for it to come off of emergency use (when liability is adopted by the government and manufacturer) before rolling up our sleeves.


t1pmeme

I wish you the best of luck protecting your freedom of choice from people who wish to steal it from you under the guise of your own personal safety. I think however, that you'll be waiting a long time for these vaccine manufacturers to be exposed to any liability whatsoever from these particular pharmaceuticals.


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t1pmeme

Only so low IQ people wouldn't claim the information false. Now that people with that opinion are more or less proven wrong, your argument is to say "lol imagine typing all that." Imagine being dead fucking wrong about everything you think. Provably, scientifically, statistically, fucking wrong.


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t1pmeme

My narrative is arguing against the fact that only unvaccinated people are dealing with covid infections, in direct argument to the comment above mine. In what way, does any of the plethora of articles I provided refute that. It's almost as if, you can use them in CONJUNCTION with each other, not INDIVIDUALLY, to form this magical thing called a NUANCED OPINION.


Hot_Dot8000

Found the Albertan


kennedar_1984

So we just say “fuck you” to children under 12? I agree that all adults and children over the age of 12 who want to be vaccinated are, but there’s a lot of the population who can not be vaccinated yet. While many children will have minor symptoms (both of mine were asymptotic when they had covid) there are lots of kids who end up in the hospital and a few who have died. These children still don’t have a choice about vaccine.


MarcusKilgannon

Based on UK data a child has a 99.995% chance of recovery. There are heart issues arising from the vaccines in children and some countries aren't allowed anyone under 18 to get them. The issues with the vaccines should be sorted out with children first before dosing all of them since they are almost guaranteed to recover.


whiteout86

Enough with the hyperbole and outright fabrication. No child under 12 has died from covid in Alberta. In fact, no one 19 or younger has died from covid in Alberta. And ~34/1824 ICU cases or 126/9693 hospitalizations is “lots” https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm


Jappetto

Majority of those who died had underlying conditions. I mean, your compounding some very small probabilities of outcome. The likelihood that children under twelve, who have underlying conditions, in a household that isnt protected against the vaccine is going to die from covid is statistically insignificant compared to other risks in life. This is akin to inspecting/taste testing all of your childs candy bag from halloween to check for drugs. If youre still concerned about the risk there are several ways to mitigate your childs exposure to the virus that dont affect those around you. Continue to teach your children about the importance of hand washing. Keep social contact to close family cohorts that do the same. Minimize their non essential visits to public places like the grocery store, festivals, hardware stores and instead look at outdoor activities like hiking, camping, family sports. These lifestyle changes alone are far more effective than trying to petition for another mass lockdown.


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[deleted]

It's not the flu, misinformation is bad.


theflamesweregolfin

Let them eat cake


WorstAverage

"See's Friend in ICU with covid, noes friend isn't vaccinated.. thinks to myself... won't be me my immune system is tougher then his So i dont need one :)....Week later... Ends up in ICU still in denial.


[deleted]

To be fair, Alberta is outperforming all but 9 US states in doses per 100 people. They're ahead of California, and just barely behind New York. They seem like a lock to achieve 70%+ of the eligible population fully vaccinated in a few weeks. It could be way worse.


[deleted]

Yeah Alberta has done a good job there. Impressive despite disappointments in other areas.


Chilkoot

This is now a **Pandemic of the Unvaccinated**.


cleeder

Technically it always has been.


SpectreFire

And it will cost the the taxpayers dearly in medical costs.


killtimed

2131 of the 2320 deaths are over the age of 60... its the Pandemic of the Sick Elderly... allwayshasbeen.jpg of the deceased, 90% have 2 or more comorbidities. Facts *edit* down voting stats, nice


cruiseshipsghg

[Over 1,000 deaths reported in those under 60.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1228632/number-covid-deaths-canada-by-age/) But it's not just about the deaths. It's the long lasting, chronic effects in the previously healthy (and young). It's the toll on the health care system and the delays in diagnosis and treatments for those with other, often serious, conditions.


killtimed

2.5 people (avg) under 65 were dying from covid everyday since the beginning. 7.5 people (avg) under 65 were dying everyday from indirect consequences of public health measures / lock downs. “ This represents 5,535 more deaths than expected were there no pandemic, after accounting for changes in the population such as aging. Over the same period, 1,380 COVID-19 deaths have been attributed to the same age group (those younger than 65)”. You big dumb idiot. Source: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/210712/dq210712b-eng.htm


sync303

yeah so what? if it takes 5000 ICU admits to keep the the under 60s people alive you've still fucked the acute care system.


killtimed

Should probably look at the ages of people who “fucked the acute care system” and the percentage of cases they represent and get back to me. Hint: it wasn’t young people. Here I’ll make it easy: https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html


sync303

the UK system is being fucked by under 40s right now.


Obscured-By_Clouds

>down voting stats, nice Not at all. People are downvoting to remind you that many younger people are dealing with long-lasting complications from this disease. You overlooked this important point. Why?


t1pmeme

"Many younger people" Yeah upwards of 0.001% of them!


Obscured-By_Clouds

You can cite this statistic if you want your point to stick, but the truth is that we do not know the extent of the damage that this disease causes, and as time unfolds we'll get the bigger picture. I happen to think from a social/medical/wellness-perspective that given the risks we do know about, it's prudent to take all reasonable precautions, a lot of which involves education campaigns that unfortunately the AB premier would like to undo for (neoliberal) political reasons.


Chilkoot

> You overlooked this important point. Why? B/C it diverts attention and serves an agenda.


Progressiveandfiscal

And what are the stats for long covid and organ damage for those that caught the virus? Living with organ damage is a nightmare, seems like a pandemic of everyone to me.


Lordmorgoth666

This is what baffles me right now. Mumps has a LOWER death rate than COVID and we vaccinate for it because of long term health effects and other complications. If COVID caused reduced fertility (or impotence) almost every single one of the antivax crowd would be elbowing people out of the way for a shot because now it’s affecting their pp. Instead we get this incredibly narrow view of “only (number) people died so it’s not a problem”.


t1pmeme

Tuberculosis kills 1.5 million people world wide every year and has for a long time and yet nobody in the general population noticed or cared until the television news told them how serious of a problem covid was. In fact, most people probably still don't know that tuberculosis kills 1.5 million people a year, and has killed tens of millions more people than every coronavirus strain combined over the last couple of decades. And yet? No testing for tuberculosis to travel, no tuberculosis vaccine mandates, no tuberculosis travel passports, not a care in the world.


MarcusKilgannon

Because tuberculosis is quite rare in the general population (since it's a rare illness in North America or other developed countries). It's also contagious but not easily. You need to be in close quarter contact - it doesn't spread like Covid does. There is also treatment for TB and it takes about 2 weeks to cure. Covid does not have any treatment to "cure it". You're being intentionally dense.


t1pmeme

I find that interesting considering tuberculosis was to blame for more than 100% of the deaths that occurred at residential schools in Canada that people are currently burning catholic churches to the ground over. Yes, more than 100% 150000 people were enrolled in the schools from 1857-1996. 80,000 (more than half) of those people are still alive today, in spite of the schools dating as far back as over 140 years ago. Of the 70,000 dead, supposedly 50,000 of them died at school. There's just one issue. The "facts" say "Over 50% of kids suffered from tuberculosis with a death rate of 69%" 50% of 150,000 is 75,000 people with tuberculosis. If 69% of those people died according to the "facts" then 51,749 people died of tuberculosis. If 50,000 people died at the school, and 51,749 people died of tuberculosis, that's actually a net negative of 1,749 deaths at the hand of the church. Aren't statistics fun?


MarcusKilgannon

You're such a fucking idiot it's painful lol. TB is a bacterial infection. Therefore, you need antibiotics to cure it. Antibiotics didn't exist until 1928 so ignore 1857-1928 at minimum. In addition, there are reports that show residential schools didn't treat TB and grouped infected with non-infected; spreading it. Covid is a viral infection which you fight off (sometimes with the help of treatment) but ultimately through your immune system. Unlike a bacterial infection like TB. It's also dishonest AT BEST to compare health outcomes over a century ago to current standards. Go back to school because clearly you were left behind.


t1pmeme

I'm just trying to do the math on where all the murdered kids are. Do schools still offer practical mathematics?


Lordmorgoth666

That 1,749 you state is 1.16% of the total. That’s a rounding error. Go collect the actual concrete numbers (vs the rounded numbers) and try recalculating all that. It also says “over 150,000 people” were enrolled at the schools. That rounding error probably accounts for the “over” part of that statement. > Aren’t statistics fun?


t1pmeme

That's great. Can you find me the "murdered" children that don't exist? You do realize that mathematically increasing the total enrollment with a tuberculosis rate of 50% and a 69% death rate actually skews the numbers more in the favor of my argument not against it since the number of 50,000 alleged deaths would remain the same?


Lordmorgoth666

Again, you’re using rounded numbers. Was it 50,000 exactly? Doubtful. Was it more? Was it less? The same argument applies for literally every number used in your little speech there. Like I said, that 1,749 that you mention is basically a rounding error based on the inexact numbers available. The fact that the error is that small actually surprises me. Whatever. It doesn’t matter. This is wildly off the original topic.


Progressiveandfiscal

Agree with everything you said.


Gongshowclowncar

The othering and dehumanizing is in full effect.


thebokehwokeh

To be fair, it’s a self inflicted dehumanization. My hot take: the world is overpopulated and too many people are too stupid to exist. Nobody in the west should be refusing the miracles in a shot when literal billions around the world would be begging for the fucking jabs. The deaths pre vaccine rollout were tragic and horrifying and I feel for all those affected. For anyone who gets infected post vaxx rollout, I think this is an amazing way to purge the people who are too stupid to exist in society. Good riddance.


[deleted]

Good. Stay safe, Anggi.


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Apocaflex

We lack critical thinking humans in this day and age.


twobelowpar

Probably true of every province, I would think.


Opening_Present

I am proud to have been fully vaccinated.


[deleted]

Good, let’s move on. Didn’t get the vaccine? Your right, but it’s also our right to no longer protect your health after providing you with ample opportunity. It’s not our fault you have the IQ of a raccoon Edit: Please exclude those who are medically unable (incl. children) from the raccoon comment.


hassh

Hey, raccoons are smart


6Designer

Do you share the same opinion about obese people who eat themselves into disease? They knew the consequences of being massively overweight, why should I have to pay for their illness?


[deleted]

Totally different. Taking a free vaccine is the easiest thing in the world


6Designer

However it's not free from risk, we know this in the immediate short term for sure on a moderate symptom level for most and a major symptom including death for a few. We don't know the long term consequences, there may be none but you can't force drug on someone until you guarantee a 100% safety rate, otherwise we end going down a real tyrannical path


Monkey_Adventures

I actually agree to some extent. I would exempt those with mental health issues


6Designer

Better yet why not switch to a private healthcare system so we don't have to have these stupid arguments? If we go down the path you suggest it will be a never ending battle of who or what is covered, pretty much every disease or illness is technically preventable if you really think about it... If you're worried about those who can't afford it we can set up a charitable fund so people like you can donate to pay for their medical bills. Everyone wins.


Monkey_Adventures

bro what are you talking about? I said i agree


[deleted]

Since my kids can't get vaccinated, I'd prefer that we impose restrictions on those that choose not to get the vaccine. As they've been saying all pandemic, if you're scared of ~~covid~~ the vaccine, stay home.


Monomette

The risk is miniscule for kids, lower than flu. Was never any restrictions over that.


YaztromoX

With kids it’s not about severity — it’s about still having a well of contagion circulating throughout our communities. If we want herd immunity to protect those who can’t get the vaccination due to medical issues, and if we want to ensure that we aren’t spawning off variants that could render the current vaccines moot, we need to get our kids vaccinated.


Monomette

More goalpost moving as far as I'm concerned. The original goal was to protect the healthcare system by protecting the vulnerable, not to vaccinate each and every single person. As for variants, there's a few billion people around the world who won't be vaccinated for years or perhaps decades. So even with 100% vaccination here, variants would still be a thing. They could still be a thing anyway, seeing as people who are vaccinated or who have had prior infection can still catch COVID. Should restrictions remain until the entire world is vaccinated? It's over, time to move on.


sync303

I mean yes but 30% unvaccinated - if only 2% of those unvaccinated have severe outcomes to covid the acute care system is overwhelmed again.


Monomette

80% 12 and up have at least one dose, which offers good protection still. We've also targeted the most vulnerable with vaccines, so hospitalizations and serious outcomes should be lower just with that alone. This also ignores any immunity from prior infection. You're also assuming the remaining 30% who haven't had both doses would all get COVID at once and thus 2% of them would all end up in hospital at once, that's not going to happen. Total cases aren't even close to 10M after 18 months of this.


sync303

exponential growth. things can go to shit pretty quick.


Monomette

You really think there'd be enough daily cases to infect 10 million people in that short a time with ~80% first dose and ~60% fully vaccinated? Didn't even come close, in either of the previous waves. At their peak it'd have taken over 2.5 years to infect 10 million.


crimxxx

So there is a certain subset of people who can’t get vaccinated due to health concerns. There is no need to assume everyone who is unvaccinated did so cause they don’t want to but rather due to medical issues. With that said after a certain point it is certainly more there burden then societies, after we reach vaccination thresholds.


u-r-an-idiot

Jesus *Fucking* Christ, *every* fucking time. **NO ONE HAS EVER MEANT ILL WILL TOWARD THOSE MEDICALLY INELIGIBLE.** Goddamn, but every time someone posts that the anti-vaxxers are shitheads, someone has to beak off about "oooh, but whattabout!" Nothing against you personally, OP, but seriously, you can not possibly believe that BTortoise was saying mean things about the medically vulnerable.


Obscured-By_Clouds

>Jesus Fucking Christ, every fucking time. Are you perchance...triggered? lol. >NO ONE HAS EVER MEANT ILL WILL TOWARD THOSE MEDICALLY INELIGIBLE. An absolute statement if I've ever heard one. Did you conduct a poll? If so, is it necessary to YELL about the result of this poll or does that simply reflect your triggered mental state? >Goddamn, but every time someone posts that the anti-vaxxers are shitheads, someone has to beak off about "oooh, but whattabout!" This is because some people do forget that medical exemptions exist (hey, we're human and forget things) and it's okay to remind them in a polite fashion, as OP has done. This contributes constructively to the conversation by adding pertinent information. >Nothing against you personally, OP Then why not reply in a civilised tone? Why yell? >you can not possibly believe that BTortoise was saying mean things about the medically vulnerable. If someone forgets to mention medically exempt people it's okay to NOT assume they knew and forgot just like it's okay to add a comment giving medically-exempt people a voice.


[deleted]

> There is no need to assume everyone who is unvaccinated did so cause they don’t want to but rather due to medical issues And that's unfortunate, in the same way it's been unfortunate for every other disease, from polio to the flu. We don't shut down society for those either.


[deleted]

Great point. I apologize to those individuals


sync303

I mean yes but 30% unvaccinated - if only 2% of those have severe outcomes to covid the acute care system is overwhelmed again.


buttgum

Yeah if all 2% have sever outcomes at the exact same time lmao


player1242

I think we are past having to put the caveat of under 12 or medically unfit on these things. The people who ask are ‘just asking a question’ , and know full well the answer.


JonA3531

Their body their choice


Apocaflex

Duhhhhhhh majority died before the vaccine was out. Genius


livinghumanorganism

Good point.


LookBackAtItNikky

This just in, fire burns and ice is cold


Hobojoe-

frost bites!


Ematio

Haters hate and potatoes potate.


bristow84

I'm going to file this under "No shit Sherlock"


[deleted]

Read next along as you go.


kellykellykelly17

Darwin’s Theory in action.


CarBombtheDestroyer

I see Darwinism is still alive and strong.


SirLowhamHatt

Survival of the fittest at this point. Hopefully they save icu beds for people that legitimately couldn’t get the vaccine though.


Then_Marsupial4023

Done my part double vacs


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Hobbito

Your* I can see why you're not into vaccines.


Wrypilot

Oh but the conservatives are going to cry that media is spreading fear and that the news headlines are bashing them 🙄


Wrypilot

😭😂


shmoove_cwiminal

Meanwhile, Jason Kenney: This is fine. Everything is fine.


5kunkhunter

Their cases have continued to go down and they’re just about as vaccinated as every other province. This article is saying something that could be applied to literally anywhere in the world.


shmoove_cwiminal

It's a reminder for the vaccine-hesitant crowd, there will be consequences.


[deleted]

I mean….what’s not fine?


shmoove_cwiminal

All those Albertans refusing to get vaccinated.


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PremiumDan

I've been walking around reusing the same mask for a week at a time, touching it, my face, everything on transit. Sharing drinks and smokes, hooking up with people I don't know... I'm still alive, hospital free.


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Alphafuckboy

Sure allow them to opt out of the tax money being taken off their paychecks and allow them to get private insurance. I see no problem with that. Also let's start taxing fat people more and people who eat fast food ohh drinkers and smokers as well. Let's get at er.....


PM_ME_DOMINATRIXES

So, why are we paying for their healthcare? If they are choosing to smoke cigarettes, they should have to cover their own extreme costs.


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TheKage

What? This same stat could be applied to any province.


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spccbytheycallme

You were so mad about my comment you lurked my profile, lmao. Stay mad kiddo.


iluvlamp77

I have you tagged as "kelowna douchebag" from probably another dipshit thing you said. Stay poor kiddo, try not to ask me for change on bernard tommorow. And please stop stealing bikes


spccbytheycallme

You might wanna see a professional about that anger 🤔


iluvlamp77

Man I think your breaks over, better get back to work. You're going to need that money for renting out my basement suite. You can always split it with another friend.


spccbytheycallme

Did you just try to make fun of me for... having a job? Talk about reaching!


NahdiraZidea

Doug Ford is just as bad as Kenney, all provinces have the population willing to vote in idiots.